Theatres of Dreams Extra Time - S25/26 - EP 56 - "Take The Point??" 16 April 2026

Dom, Rich and Rod discuss the last few weeks in football, EPL form, UCL games and the possible configurations in the table.  There is ice cold blue positivity and red hot frustrations and nervousness!

A podcast produced by LATELATEPodcasts part of LATELATEProductions

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:25

If you're watching this on YouTube, he looks slightly like he's in a Joe 90 type of um uh glasses I've been glasses combo. Some say he's being sponsored by um an a famous Italian brand. Others say he's on his way to Gary Neville's podcasting uh cream and he's got an advanced bonus. Don Barr, you're um you're looking very suave and sophisticated, man.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Well, I am. Off the back of Mark Goldbridge's fantastic deal yesterday. I just thought we needed to up the ante. And personal brand, I'm told, is where it's all at. So I thought I better just you know step it up a few steps. Richard's already got wonderful glasses and wears them every week. So I thought, you know what? It's a big weekend. I'll have a little glass of water ready for action for the the bottle, arsenal bottle. A little bottling water there, ready for the weekend activity.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Rodney, I have to say, back in the 90s I used to spend uh quite a bit of money on fashion and whatever. Now I don't spend any money off, but I have to say, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, Dom looks a million dollars.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

He does, it does. But you know what it is?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Which which is probably how much is glasses cost?

SPEAKER_03 1:38

I'm gonna be honest, these were these were £50 from a website somewhere that I impulsively bought from Shopify when you when you flick into your phone. And my jacket is from Zara. So I'm not spending big, but it's how you wear it, Rich. Does Zara know that you've borrowed it? I'm taking it back later. I've still got the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

He's actually meant some girl called Zara. Oh no, no, no. The shop. Actually, what what it is, Richard.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I reckon he's in the changing room there. He hasn't bought any of it and he's just trying to get on precise. Anyway. The curtain. Anyway, anyway, um, let's see if your team has been uh a little bit more spruced up. How are we feeling about our football at the moment, guys? Let's start with you, Dom.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Ice cold. I'm ice cold, unlike the fire of the Emirates. I'm feeling good, relaxed, and ready for ready for what Sunday brings. It's been a fantastic couple of weeks for City and uh thanked by uh Arsenal's meltdowns. But uh yeah, no, feeling good. It's been a good couple of weeks, and actually it's been some good football, hasn't there? Europe, good games last night. So generally it's been it's an enjoyable time of the season. I love it when there's jeopardy in games and everything. It's a great time.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

And there is jeopardy, isn't there? I mean, while you're six points behind City, you've still got our Arsenal, you've still got a game in hand. You you get that game, you become three points behind, suddenly the pressure starts to mount. Um, Arsenal's next game is going to be huge on the back of that defeat um midway, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Yeah, I mean, there's loads of it, isn't there? Which we I'm sure we'll talk about. We can do that now if you want, really, just to get straight into the topic of the weekend. But when it comes to the domestic football, I'm I'm just surprised. Even though we we were joking and we were giving them some banter, I'm surprised about how nervous they've got in the last few weeks. You know, that Carabao Cup final really affected them. The FA Cup it was another capitulation, and then the league form against Bournemouth. I mean, even last night, you know, they they got over the line, credit to them, but they're just they've seem to have just frozen with fear, um, and that's just enabled the door to be open enough. And I'm just pleased that we've at least got a showdown on Sunday, because actually, it could have been all over before we played them, couldn't it? But this last couple of this last days I mean their league form actually is still very good. It's only that first defeat against Bournemouth is the first defeat in like seven matches or something, so they've been on a good run, but the narrative, the narrative that they bring upon themselves and they talk themselves into, um, thanks to social media, I think it's done us a favour because they are scared to death. And it and we all know when you support big teams, and all three of us have been there, getting over the finishing line is so difficult. You need a bit of luck, you need to live on your wits, and they're not doing that very well. So it's all about it's all about Sunday getting over the can they get over the line after a very good season? Or are they going to struggle with Bergie time? You know, we've seen it with great Liverpool teams and United States.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Sunday, Sunday's, you've got Chelsea Sunday, haven't you? No. Arsenal.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Oh, I thought it was uh you got Arsenal this Sunday. Yeah, 4 30. I know your team's struggling and you don't care anymore, Rich, but that come on. That's the biggest team, the biggest game in town. For some reason, I thought it uh you had Chelsea first. We played them and beat them at the weekend 3-0 last week. So she did, of course she did. Yeah, so it's all it's all winner takes all, and that but they get the draw. So you know, everyone's everyone's assuming City will bowl them over. I think the game's gonna be incredibly tight, and it's but I'm just pleased that we get a shot at it because a couple weeks ago I didn't I didn't think I thought it might be a precession and they could even lose at our place and it didn't matter, but it's it's all back on.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

It really is all back on, and and actually this game probably comes at a perfect time for you on the back of their defeat. They probably didn't really want to be playing you next. They probably would want to get another game under their belts, yeah. On the back of that defeat.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

What time's kickoff, Don?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

4 30.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

And we're only down to one game a week, aren't we? Because of the European knockout by Real Madrid has left has left us in a one-week, one game a week thing. So that can't do any harm. You know, I was I was really pleased Arsenal won last night because I just need them to stay in the competition. Um I don't want them in the final, I want Real Madrid to beat them because I don't care about the Champions League final.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

We're out of the Junior House.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah, sorry, uh Atletico. And Atletico will be two very difficult games for them. Um I mean they may they made hard work of sport in Lisbon, let's be truthful. So yeah, look, it's just it's just all to play for, and everyone's assuming, but I'm not going with that narrative that the di the biggest difference is we've we've been there four times on the trot and all those things. If you if you listen to any of the city podcasters, the attitude is calm, let's get it done, and let's give it a go. And and whoever wins on the date, if Arsenal come and get a brilliant result our place, then well done, Arsenal. But that's our attitude is come on then, let's have it.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Whereas Arsenal Yeah, I think we can safely say I think we can safely say if Arsenal come to yours and win, not only it's over, but not only that, they would deserve to win the league, personally. Yeah, but but um I can't see that. I can't see it happening.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Do you think it's winner take all on uh Sunday then?

SPEAKER_02 7:15

I'm not sure if it's winner take all, but um if if if if Man City win that, it's definitely game on, and then it I think the momentum would be then would be would be with with City. And like Dom says, this distraction in Europe as well, Atletico is going to be two very tough games, and then even if they get through that, they're gonna have uh a momental, momentous uh challenge of beating either PSG or Bayern. So they they could have a distraction there, definitely distractions and you know potential more injuries. Well, City really, this is their the only thing that they're concentrating on, isn't it? Because that's the only thing they're left in. And the FAK wouldn't Pep love to get it done this time rather than next year.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

It's lunacy that they're talking about. This City team, which now is finding some form, but we've talked about it all year, has been all over the place. One minute it looks like it's back on track, the next minute it gets a daff result. The inconsistency is what's cost us, and but we're actually talking about a city team that's in in development stages and transition that is on for a travel. I mean, how the hell has that happened? What does that say about the rest of the league? Or, you know, because that's what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Oh cool, sorry, you're still in the sorry, I'm forgetting that.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Yeah, you're still in the FA Cup, they've got Southampton in the semi-finals, and if if we win that, it's one game at a time cliches, isn't it? Then obviously, but but this Arsenal game could I have no doubt that they could come to our place, get some of their set pieces in, have two two headers, two shots, two goals, and defend like the trouse they are brilliant at defending, make no bones about that. Whichever back four they put in with Declan Rice in front of them and Raya, is even when we give them a good tanking at Wembley, it it was difficult to break them down and took a goalkeeping error to actually get beyond them. So, yeah, we had all the ball and it's relentless, but they're very capable of coming and keeping a clean sheet. Yeah, they're very capable of doing that.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, yeah. Uh, do you think when it comes to this time of the season and the squeaky bomb times, Ferguson once famously said, you know, I uh it's obviously the injuries you're carrying has um an influence. The the number of players who've been through this part of the season has a number of of um uh influences, but but also the manager's uh knowledge and the way they do the media, the the way they manage game by game. This is where a lot of pressure's on Arteta at the moment versus Pep, because Pep's been there and done it. You know, this is do you think this is more a test of Arteta than the club or his squad?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Yeah, I do. I think I think that's a brilliant shout. It reminds me of Kevin Keegan, I mean, not the same football, Kevin Keegan with Champagne football, wasn't he, with his Newcastle teams, and then he capitulated with his I'd love it if we beat him type of uh speeches and all of that, and the emotion got too much, and that's exactly what's going on at Arsenal. Is Darteta's got siege mentality, he's too emotive on the side, he has been for months, and that energy eventually just overspills. Whereas Pep can be very animated, of course he can, and I'm sure he gave him a right rocket at halftime in the Chelsea dressing room when we were nil-nil and not playing very well. But yeah, that the experience, there's somebody said this morning on a on a quote I saw that is Arteta a really good coach or is he a top-level manager? And if he doesn't win this league, he's a good he's a really good coach. Because that calm aura of a pep, an Ancelotti, a Fergie, um even Klopp with his energy and a calmness about elements to get them over the line. Because you can't ever say that that Liverpool team when they when they finish second to City with the record points, they never choked. That's not a choking. It is a choking.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

It's interesting, Tom and and this this might come across as being very flippant and and and derogatory towards um Arteta, but uh to use this um uh scenario, I still see Arteta looking like a 21-year-old who's behind the keys of uh an a Ferrari, right? And uh and he still looks like he's got lots to learn by you know even just in the man management, the the press, etc. etc. And and I I I don't I wonder whether he has almost been a little bit too quiet, a little bit not backing his team, but being front and forward, taking the pressure off his players. Maybe I'm just not watching enough of the media, and and whether actually Pep doesn't have to do that because he's done it so many times in the past, his his um reputation pushes him, pushes the thing. It it feels to me like you're really up against two different styles of not even football tactics, but just management.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Yeah, the difference is that City's always got I mean, with because you're serial winners, again, both both uh United and Liverpool would would understand this, the fan bases back in the particularly when they were rial winners, is that actually there's there's a car there's just a calmness of look, you know what, we're gonna give it our best, we're gonna do our best, and if that's not enough, then it's not enough. Whereas Arsenal's desperation to get over the line with this emotion takes you so far, but then it's that little 1% calmness to I uh there's little daft examples. I always think it's easier to chase. I think it's always easier to chase whatever sport that is tennis rankings, golf, football, league tables, staying at the top for as long as Arsenal have is difficult because the expectancy is if you you've gotta win, you've gotta win, right? Chasing is harder, it takes some pressure off. So they they struggled with that. I always remember that when the city teams without that experience, take the Mancini team, we were always chasing United, and you guys let us back in. You were you were experienced, you should never have done it, but you let us back in, and then it got to QPR on the last day of the season, which was the first time that it was in our hands, and we choked. And we choked because we weren't chasing, we just needed to beat QPR at home, and we did it with Aguero's last minute goal, but we all know that the narrative of the game was City choked and got away with it, and that's what happened. And even the Villa game a few seasons ago against Liverpool, when we got above them, yeah, we went 2-0 down to Villa. Yeah, when you become the team that can you know, you you either get it done or you choke. Chasing, you do your best and you see what happens, and City are in that attitude. Whereas Arteta knows and the club knows, and the narrative on their TikToks and their and their Instagram posts from all of their followers is unbelievably intense. That if this doesn't work, Arteta's got to go. He's got to be sad.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

You have to see these social media fan bases interviews, they're all getting very, very narky, wow, uh angry. Um, they're not saying, listen, we're behind the team, we're behind the manager, this is just a blip, we'll still get it over the line. You can sense the panic in their interviews, the fan, these fan TV shows. You can sense that they they can see what's coming potentially, and it'll it'll devastate them, won't it?

SPEAKER_03 14:49

This morning's though, this morning though, if you look at the narrative and you see any of the essay interview from yesterday and the because this is what we're talking about, it's all the circus around the game. They've they've come out with a completely different tone, and it's we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, and they've suddenly come out with this calm steel, and and he's saying, We've got fire, we're gonna be okay, we're not listening to this noise. It's all fake. You don't watch Paps tonight, you'll just be joking, laughing, keeping it chilled, keeping it calm. I'll tell you now, I've been watching the lads have had a they have days off. You know, I've got um, as you know, in my uh Bowers Towers, Mark Gay swanning around having a cappuccino yesterday, chilling, looking like he's got no pressure on him whatsoever. Cherky's coming out of the gym, doing his own private sessions again yesterday, wandering around like Cherky does as if he's you know can do what he wants when he wants, and he can. So there's just a different tone. We haven't got as many serial winners as we've had previously. I was counting them up last week in the game that started, and actually it was four. It was Rodri, Bernie, um Harland and Donna Ruma. Okay? Actually, the rest of the team's really new and young and hasn't and hasn't won a lot, but that's what you're saying is that actually that's the evidence of Pep. Because our lads will our lads will tighten up. That first half against Chelsea was a little bit oh and then he obviously said to them half times, guys, chill out. Whereas Arteta's not doing that, is he? So I I definitely think at the moment, if City get over the line, it's Pep beating Arteta rather than the players.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Do you know what this game reminds me of? And I'm trying I was just trying to look at the season, but um you guys will probably remember better. I was at the game, but it was the game when um United, Manchester United, sorry, went to Newcastle midweek. It was an evening game, and Newcastle had been out in front for most of the season. I think it was '95, '96 season, and we scored, I think the uh it was 2-1 or 1-0, um, and they were hammering us. And that was when Keegan said, I'd love it. I think he said, 'I'd love it if we beat them.' And this feels like that game has all the similar echoes of that because it was Arsenal be uh Arsenal being the team out in front, United were chasing them down, and and a manager who hadn't won the league. I I mean Arteta's a totally different character to Keegan, but that game seems to have for me has the same sort of significance here.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

I think you're dead, dead right. I remember that game. You're right, that's a sign of age. They batted United, they went for them, they went for them. They did. Now, actually, now actually, they didn't need to go for them because that's the difference of expertise. Actually, maybe if Kevin Keegan was calmer and more reassured, he'd have taken a nil-nil and been really happy. But I remember you went and got a smash and grab, he then and he capitulated. I think the equivalent of that is the Carabau Cup final, because since that Carabao Cup final, you know, there's no doubt Arsenal have let that affect them far more than they should have, and that's the brittleness of being so long without winning anything. I mean, yeah, don't get me wrong, they got an FA Cup, which is brilliant, but the title, you know, with the shadow of Henri Vieira Petit sitting over there, Liverpool had it for 30 years and got past that hoodoo. Yeah, United is growing, and again, you've still got the shadow of the great teams of Rooney and Ronaldo, and you've not done it since. So yeah, at the moment, Arsenal just have got to beat themselves and they're just letting the city back in. Someone's going to win this title with 82 points. Yeah, mad. Mad. It's a Leicester City season, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

It is, it is.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Do you think that Arsenal fans would prefer to win the league than they would the Champions League? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Absolutely. 100%. They've got more than. And yet, and yet with Real Madrid or Barcelona, it would be the other way around.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, but I think it reflects the leagues almost in some ways, Richard. And and our Arsenal, I think with Real Madrid, it's it's almost like they see themselves as European titans. I I think I I think it's different for English clubs. I think they always want to win their own league first. Europe is is great. I mean, if you look at if if you look at some of the clubs that won in Europe but but have not won in their own league for a while, you know, you would swap that. You would definitely swap that. So I I think I think that is definitely the case. Let's just turn to the other big game on Sunday because there's emergency derby. Um and that is a huge game as well for um for both um teams. Let's just remind us ourselves where they are. Liverpool are sitting fifth um in Champions League spot in fifth place, 52 points. Um slot has been under a lot of pressure recently. Everton having a good season there, sitting in eighth. So that would that would that would see them outside of Europe. Um, but um they they've had a good run uh so far. Richard, uh is where's the pressure on this one? Is it is it with slot or is it with Everton?

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Oh, definitely with Slot because now we're out of the Champions League after after the the other evening. Um he's now definitely got to get top five. Of course he has. Uh who he knows that he's definitely his mech would be on the block. Getting Liverpool into the Champions League might buy him uh some more time for next season. I was talking to a big Liverpool fan yesterday, uh a lady, uh, and uh she was thinking this trigger putting on the trigger, trying to, you know, uh what some other clubs like Tottenham, Chelsea, do with oh Alonso is the definite answer to uh this uh Liverpool problem. She said you they need to just take heed because even though Alonso had a good season with Baelovacus in in Germany and won the title, it didn't go well for him the next season and then and then Real Madrid, it didn't work it out for him at all. So who's to know that really Alonso okay in theory Alonso and Gerard is his assistant is in some fans is uh is the fairy tale. But fairy tales don't often sometimes don't come true. And Arnie Slot, to be fair, you know, why would you want to sack a manager? Uh he won the league last year, but forget about the Klopp team, he still won the league, he still won the league, he's had a a bad season this year, a disappointing season this year. Klopp had a disappointing season after after winning the league, and he came back uh and did well. So I think we better be careful really about pulling that trigger onslaught. If he gets top five, he even get to you know fourth place um maybe should be given a little bit more time. He's he's had some problems with uh Isaac injury now at Yakutike. Looks like he's done his his his Achilles. Maybe he should be given a bit more time to try and fix things. Van Dyke and Salah, he can obviously see why the fans were desperate for them to stay, but probably the wrong decision. In both cases. Maybe Slot knew that, but the fan, the cry out for to keep two of the three, as in Alexandra Arnold going, there was the clamber to keep the other two, but it hasn't worked, has it?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

So, Dawn, what do you think? If if um if slots seasons falls away, um do you think that and Liverpool have always been to refer to them a very I'd almost call them graceful club in terms of their their treatment of managers?

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Very much so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

But do you think with you know the managers who are circling and and the likes of the chance to maybe bring in Xavi Alonso to Liverpool, do you think that um almost regardless of where Liverpool end up, because Liverpool probably you know they they should secure European football next year. But but but do you think regardless of that that they will make a change or they'll give them another year or two?

SPEAKER_03 23:20

So I think I think because Alonso is available, and I feel that Liverpool are in a classic cliche transitional period incoming, started it now, really. Um that if you're the board, you're thinking, well, look, you know, slot did great, held it, held it together for a bit. We had it with Pellegrini, Pellegrini won won the league off a Mancini team, did alright, was a calm influence, and then the the the season after got the push. So we had that. Pellegrini only hung around for a little bit, but he did win stuff, and the cred and the the credit only stays so long if somebody else is available. Pep was available, so we went for him. Alonso, I think overall, I think he is a good manager, I think he understands the DNA of Liverpool um in a plot way, he'll do his own style, but I do I do think that if Alonso wants it, Arsenal, um Liverpool will make that change and uh but it will all be done it like you say, we're done very professionally and very gracefully because Liverpool are very good at that. They don't fall out and just do a Chelsea, do they, or you know what I mean? So I think I do think that is the case. If Alonso isn't in the market or goes somewhere else and doesn't want to do it, then they'll probably stay with they'll probably stay with Slot. I think that the issue, and he and Slot mentioned this in his interview this week, and he's and he's got a really good point. Has it gone right in terms of the strategy? Because they've let Trent, maybe not all their choice, but they've let Trent, Robertson, Stalla, all go on freeze. Yeah, right? So somewhere, somewhere the negotiations have gone wrong. Not now, like like if you can just relate it to the city a little bit, we're all over now. Anybody for re-signing contracts, Roger, Foden. We don't wait, we get it dealt with, and if it's not going to happen, then we know that they'll want to go. But it's not rare, it's a rarity. It's only when they're older, older for us. Kev, Gundo, Bernie will go this time, but it's all being managed correctly, and we've got replacements in now, and we might take you know, we're ready for it. So I don't think I think the gap in the squad, and and the other thing just on that is they've probably in hindsight spent too much money on individual players that meant that the squad is not as deep. So don't get me wrong, I think we were trying to go in for some of these players. We spent a hundred million on Jack Grealish, but other than him, everybody else is somewhere in the 60s and 70s. You've gone with we've got a bigger squad, we'll have two good players for the price of your one vertz. Now, injuries are really unlucky, really unlucky. And Ekitiki, I felt so sorry for him, he's been brilliant and he's been good value at 70 something million, right? But because you spent all that money on Isaac and Verts and it's not quite worked, you you end up then with the bench not looking great, and you're relying on Rio, the young lad, who's magnificent by the way, but you're relying on these to be too good too quick. So I think there's a transitional period where that squad at Liverpool isn't Salah, it was so far off it the other night, so far off it. I mean, I know he did all right against Fulham, but let's put that into perspective. Fulham have been good this season, they were just okay on that day, and and it was a nice comfortable win. He had loads of the ball did Salah against PSG, and he didn't have the pace, he didn't have the confidence, he couldn't beat a man. You know, I mean he the poor lad, in hindsight, should have left a year ago. So he's going out on a bit of a damp squib, which is a shame for him. Um, but these things happen if you make the wrong call.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

I still thought it was a very peculiar decision by slot, and this is where I think the fans are scratching their heads a bit, starting with Isaac, knowing that he's not fit, and almost and in a pre-interview, pre-match interview saying, Well, he's only going to last 45 minutes. Very odd to start with Isaac.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Uh very, very odd. Whereas he looked terrible, didn't he? He couldn't, I mean the poor lads are not fit, he could tell. It wasn't Isaac's fault. He got four or five minutes of running around, but he didn't do a lot.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Very odd decision that was. That's what concerns me. Odd decision making, and uh Rio had such a good game. Start with him. Start with him and Salah. Have a go, try and get that early goal and see where the match takes you. Then maybe bring Isaac on later, but very odd decision.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Do you think this is it's fair to say that this is one of the biggest derbies for a while? Because let's not forget, Everton, who sit in eighth at the moment, are only you know three points possibly behind getting into uh a European place, sitting on 47 points. It's it's a really, really important derby for both clubs, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 28:02

It is, but uh uh I was discussing this again with my client, and she was saying what is in favour this time is Everton are still settling at that new stadium. It it's not like going to Goodison where they're breathing down your neck.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

I I I think Liverpool will have that slightly in their favour. Of course, Everton will be going for the win. I think Liverpool would take the point. I think I would take the point at this point at this moment because I think they will be going for it, and I think our defence, Kinati and Van Dyke will have to turn up for this game, and um it'll be tough, very tough. They would love to be at Liverpool more than ever before. Uh, but I think Liverpool would take the point personally, um, and then go for you know, try and get some more wins in the next few games. Um we'll see. I think I wouldn't be surprised if Liverpool lost, but I would take the draw.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Take the point.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

I think yeah, I think I think Everton are gonna I think Everton are gonna roll them over. I think they're gonna roll them out, I'm gonna roll them over. Like, not a one-nil er. I could see this being like two or three because Really? Yeah, I know I I do, I do, they're on a they're on a roll, they've got a half-decent team, and I know what you're saying, they've not had a great home record, but they've been picking up wins there recently while they're settling into the new gaffe. And I remember when we first went to the Etiad and we played United, and that first derby in your new ground, when you're tasting a bit of blood, those Evertonians will be ferocious. Yeah, and there's and there's a I do I think actually Kanate and I don't know if Kanate actually played really well the other night, and yeah, he's he's found a bit of form. But who's who's gonna be in goals, Rich? Is is Salah is um Becker still out?

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yes, Becker'll be out, but the other guy actually hasn't made many mistakes, he's looked he's looked okay, he hasn't had much had no chance against the goals against PSG. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

So I'm not I'm not too much. I'm just saying I do I do I can't see you scoring very easily because they're they're good at they're good defensively, a David Moy's team. You you know, what's your forward line? You look you look you spend all that money and you're looking at the forward line and thinking it's gonna be Gakpo, a Salah who is half a Salah at best, and what maybe averts somewhere in a dozen. Well, I think he's gonna have to go with Rio, I think he's gonna have to give him a goal. He's gonna play Rio, he's gotta play, he's gotta play him. He's got I mean he's no different to Arsenal needing to play the 16-year-old. Like, really, if if if you want to go for it and you're Arteta, you know, you should be doing that. Well, Liverpool should be playing Rio. Those two lads are very excited.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Do you know there are so many big games because even Villa Sunderland at two o'clock has a lot to play for. Um still will want to consolidate their place in the Champions League. Sunderland sitting back still on 46 points, sitting back there will want to be uh pushing themselves up. So that's that's a huge game. Let's go to uh Saturday, my beloved um Manchester United are the evening game down at Chelsea. And now if you look at the form guide for these, um it's it's um it's interesting. Um uh what do you think, lads, about this game? Because actually the form guide at the moment would say they're somewhat in a similar um vein, although Chelsea have lost only won one in the last five games.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

You've got a few suspensions at the back, haven't you? McGuire and then the other guy.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Uh McGuire and Martinez, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

So you're gonna be struggling at the back, and they've got some good attacking players.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

So which chel which Chelsea are you gonna get? Which one? Oh I I score a draw, I think score draw. I think two teams, you know, that Chelsea team last last week when we played them, yeah, they weren't very good, were they? So they're just uh again.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

I I'd love it to be a draw because I think you know, um I don't want really uh United to win, I want them to slow down on the pointage wise, and Chelsea also I don't want them to win because that would uh the gap would narrow. So a draw would be lovely for me.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Yeah, I think look United United had a blip the other day when they lost to Leeds, Leeds are fighting for the lives, but you know, that's the first that's the first slip-up for some time for United. So they just need to keep that in context. You know, they've had a brilliant run, they've been on a great Garrick's done a great job. I wouldn't be surprised. I don't see United losing that game.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Um I wish I I wish I could get some of your positivity and confidence, I have to say. I've got to say, I've got to get I've got to get responsible.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Rose tinted glasses, uh can we talk about can we just talk about the relegation though?

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Because since since we spoke, we were in great fear of Tottenham and it's got worse, a lot worse. And that result for Leeds was was monumental at United because I was thinking, if I'm honest, that Leeds might just get like sucked into this because I felt that Forest and West Ham have been getting results and picking up points and playing with a bit of form. I think if you took the last ten games, they're probably at least mid-table, the two of them. So you felt that if anyone could get sucked in, it was Leeds, and then Leeds win that game at United. I know there's still about five or six games to go, but a six-point gap at the moment for Tottenham.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

I think West Ham and Forest look they've got far more fighting them. I think Tottenham on a downward spiral, I do.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Opt to have them favourites to go down, apparently. Um just seeing here on the headline.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Um haven't they given him the new manager a five-year contract?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

What the Zerbi? I think I think they have. I've not read the details. I mean, you've heard his interview. He said he's not doing any coaching, he's just going to be a father at a I thought that was odd. I thought that was hard. He's right, but that's how that's how I mean they just need counselling. I mean, you know, Romero Romero is obviously got a dead leg or something, and he probably won't play at the weekend, maybe. Um they've got Brighton next. I mean, you just look at the fixtures and you think all them teams are like they can all play. The Sunderland game epitomised it. I watched the game, it was like watching Pain Drake. I mean, that Sunderland team isn't the same ferocious Sunderland from pre-Christmas, and the goal was a huge deflection. A huge deflection. You just think this has got everything's going against them. I mean, they've been you know, architects of their own downfall with the management and the structure off the pitch and sacking everybody every five minutes, of course. But again, we talk about North London fan bases for different reasons that they're scared to death for different reasons.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

If he pulls it off though, Dom, and and this is the interesting point. You know, when you when you come in at this stage of the season, we're used to seeing the sort of firefighting managers who are all thunder and hard and all that type of thing. The Derby strikes me as somebody who's a much more tactician and he isn't a a rouser, and uh, you know, it's you know, he's somebody who looks at the tactics and the and the techniques, uh and a big stan would come in right now and would be all sort of blood and thunder and that type of thing. Uh but I wonder whether Disturby is gonna have to change his style here, which is he's gonna have to not be coaching lots of difficult tactics, uh playing on the natural instincts of the players and just trying to get some confidence into them, which is really hard at this stage, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 35:22

Yeah, I think that's but I think that's what he said really, which is he's not gonna start complicating matters with loads of patterns of play and things like that. It's just about trying to keep them feeling positive and remind them that they can play football and that there are some good players in there. But the lack of leadership and people who've been around, like the ones who normally get you out of the trouble. David Moyes has been skirted around it a few times. Obviously, big Sam and people like that, Deitch. What you normally find is the ones that get out of trouble start by an ugly brand of we're not gonna give a goal away, we're gonna nick a set piece and we're gonna get a lucky one-nil win somewhere, and we'll just try and get our points that way. That's how they normally survive. This Tottenham team, I don't see how it can do that. I don't see how that defence becomes solid overnight with a with a midfield that just you know keeps the lines clear. And the the goalkeeping situation, you know, they've dropped the first team keeper who was a liability, then they bring the other lad in who then got hooked for 20 after 20 minutes in a European game. Now he's back in the team. I mean, the whole thing is so brittle.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

And they've got some big they've got some big games to play. So this weekend they host Brighton Hall Valbion and the tea time game, then they go to Wolves, and then in May they go to Villa, they host Leeds, then they've got the small matter of uh, I guess it would be a um it's a London Derby anyway, Chelsea versus Tottenham. Their last game of the season is at home against Everton, and Everton who might be still in with a good chance of doing something uh for Europe next year. That's I mean, okay, it's it that's not an easy run of games for them. They're in a proper mess. They're in a proper mess.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

I think if they lose at home against Brighton, I think they'll be good they'll they're on a downward spiral.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

They've got to stay within one win of getting out of trouble. And if it goes beyond three points, I don't see them recovering from that. At the moment, one win gets them above probably West Ham and Forest. Just I think they may have got a better goal difference too. But if it goes up to more than that, where they've got to win a game and then and then get something else, uh they're running out of games and they've just got sucked in. I can't tell you how much it reminds me of the city team of the mid-90s. So we got sucked in late on. We went down with 40 points with King Clatsey and like players that were decent, but when it becomes like cancerous in the in the squad and they're scared to death to play at home, because I honestly I've walked that path. Well, they are right on it, they're gonna need a massive struggle up.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

The historic um stats don't um help them out really or won't be very um encouraging for them because um apparently across the 31 Premier League seasons so far, a team occupying 18th place after 31 matches has been relegated on 21 occasions. So they've got a you know two out of three chance that you would be relegated at this stage. It's they've got everything that they have to fight for, don't they?

SPEAKER_03 38:32

It's the biggest talking. I mean, look, just this is just great though, innit? Not not for Tottenham, but for we've got a really exciting relegation situation, we've got an amazing European challenge, and then we've got the title back on. I mean, that's all we want in this league, and that's why it's entertaining. There's been bits of this season which has been far from entertaining, and we have quite we've rightly challenged sterileness of of football, but then when you're suddenly able to talk about Rio at Liverpool, Cherokee at City, and the lad at Arsenal, down uh Dowman, you know, you want we we need a bit more of that, don't we? And then we get some good European football last night with a cracker, so at least you know, not all is lost. No, uh you know what I mean, but um you know they were just we've just got to remember to be entertained. So tell me to see it's great to see Kane scoring on such a big night, I think. Can we actually let's just bring him up, right? I mean, taking all the jokes around Tottenham and he's never won anything. That if there's anybody in world football who deserves all the plaudits after all that loyalty of sticking around Spurs way longer than he should have, yeah. I so desperately want him to win the Champions League. I want I'm I'm back in Bayern. I think PSG are better, but I'm I want Bayern to win because of the Vinnie Company thing and for Case. And and I want him to get that ballon d'or because if anybody deserves it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

He was saying in the post-match interview that they can wrap up the league this weekend, apparently, Bayern.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

Yeah, yeah. They've got 105 goals in the league and they've got five games to go. There's only been one other time anyone's got over a hundred goals. They've got 105 and still got five games. It's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

So let's just on that, just look at the draw for the semis, which will be played on uh Tuesday the 28th and uh Wednesday the 29th. So it's Paris Saint-Germain against uh Bayern and then it's Athletical Madrid versus Arsenal. Um that's I mean that's a big, big draw. Um PSG versus Bayern, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Well, the assumption is that's the winner. I think that's a little unfair because on a one game anything could happen.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Um but you you know I can't can you call that? I just worried PSG PSG have been it, done it again, been there, done it, got it, and defending champions. Uh Bayern last night, and when we've watched him, are beautiful to watch. But my goodness, Vinny Company loves a high line, and he plays uh he'll let two on two. I mean, the reason that they kept Ralber Jr. kept scoring was well, they got Mbappe, but you know he was so wide open at the back because that's the way he did it at Burnley as well. It's the way he plays, he's yeah, very much on the front foot, aggressive press. So I think PSG could see that, and Dembele and Due could cause all sorts of trouble, but that's a brilliant game. But I think on the other side, I think Arsenal, everyone will go, oh, they didn't get Barcelona. I tell you what, I think they'll have a tougher time against Athletica than they will against Barca.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

And of course, it depends what's going on in the league, their level of confidence going to that game, their priorities, injuries, etc. You could easily see that Arsenal's head will be turned with what else is going on, and and you know, so uh I I my money is my money's on a Munich and Madrid and a double M M M final, I have to say. But uh I'm with you on that.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

That's my call too. I'm with you on that.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Um but uh there you go. Right. Um, let's um talk about a couple of other things before we go. Um, yeah, the overlap, by the way, just acquired um the um Mark Goldridge's um that's football and the United Stand. Huge news, actually. Dom, are you gonna go with that transfer? Are you are you staying with us?

SPEAKER_03 42:27

I'll I'll get my people to speak to your people, but um at the moment I think the decision is I'm gonna give you guys the benefit of the doubt. And um as long as we can sort our new contract and you know we'll get the lawyers on that, I'll I'll retain my position if that's okay in our in our little thruple.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Well, as long as we can afford your wardrobe fee, um I think we should be. We can't told you Zara.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Very good value, very good value.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Can I just ask you what so Goldbridge keeps on doing his show, but Neville owns it?

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Yes. He's basically I think the he he uh earned um just over three million quid is the rumour, it's a seven-figure fee, um, to basically um produce his shows, uh, which is the United Standard Naz football, um, under the Gary Neville um brand, basically.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Right. All of his income, obviously. I mean, again, um it's not even though we do this, this it's not a business model I'm like hugely knowledgeable on. Maybe we should be. But his income that he's creating in his activity is now part of the Gary Neville group. I assume it's somewhere under Relentless or or you know, his his continual he's obviously designed to go down the media spot with influencers. And I don't know the following the followers for Mark Goldbridge, but it's obviously millions, I assume. Um so yeah, good on Mark, he's he's done it in his bedroom, been written. Ridiculed and he's walked away with over three million quid and sold his his business basically. And he's uh and it's part of a group. Good on him. Good on him.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Yeah, I I have to say, um not my favourite podcaster at all. And that's not uh it's it's it's just uh I don't like the style and and um I I I I don't like I prefer to see um I prefer to see my podcasters at the games and and more closer involved in in the games, but uh you know he has um apparently uh 2.26 um million subscribers for the the the United Stand. And um that's football is 1.46 million. So uh um there there you go. Well as there's there's money to be made. We might be able to forge your jacket after all if we ever get uh signed.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

We need to see if he does it with anybody else as well. I mean, there's obviously the United, well, I say the United connection with Gary Neville. I'm never quite sure how close that bond is, but you you wonder, don't you, whether he will try and maybe go for different size following. But there's a you know, there's a couple of really good strong Arsenal ones, isn't there? There's uh there's the city ones, Liverpool lads. You you wonder whether he'll have a little cluster of more than just Mark Goldbridge.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Mark Goldbridge is actually uh quite complimentary about Liverpool sometimes when I listen to his excerpts, and uh maybe uh Neville uh put a kyber bosch on that because uh he is quite complimentary about Liverpool quite often. I quite like the fact that he is a Man United fan, but it obviously isn't a isn't afraid to actually praise them when praise is due, which is you know admirable, really.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

He's got better at that. He used to be very, very I mean, uh yeah, like I he's not my favourite, but he's he's got a little bit more graceful and he's there's more collabing going on, if you notice now as well with the guys. There'll be yeah, this the you know the different teams will go and jump on each other's shows and stuff. So they're all worked out to make it a more commercial, wider reaching business model. Oh, I think it's a few and it's a future of it's a future of sports journalism.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

I just find it bizarre that somebody like Wayne Rooney, you can't quite often can't seem to me can't get words together without going uh uh um um can get you know uh podcasts on BBC sounds and yeah, but but I think this is this is the this is the change that we're seeing now in terms of how people want to get their content. They either want to get their content from people who've played the game, who've got insight, and maybe sometimes can give you a little bit of insight not only just in tactics but also some of the rumours, because it's still associated with clubs, or they like the enthusiasm, the natural enthusiasm of a fan, you know, and and it's what do you guys think of Wayne Rooney as a pundit?

SPEAKER_02 46:53

And do you think he's just okay? Do you think he's really good?

SPEAKER_00 46:58

I think it's just okay. I think it's okay. But uh you know, but it depends whether you want somebody who's gonna give you drop a line like a cane can that makes it funny, sarcastic sometimes. You're not gonna get that from a Rooney, but you'll get a tactical view, an insight view. Uh you'll get a view of what's it like to be a striker in that position, and it's much more technical, I think, in some ways, but it's drier, it's drier, you know. But uh I I I just think it's interesting that the media really has swung um to people who are have been in the game and are giving you some insight, and the enthusiasm of fans who are saying it as they are.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

And uh, but I I prefer somebody like Lineker who's articulate and has been at the top of his game. I always found Ian Wright and and people like Rooney who aren't very articulate, uh, annoying. That well, the grammar uh uh annoys me, and also they're they're not particularly insightful. Uh you know, you're Danny Murphy's uh uh and your Shearer to a certain extent. Um I like what Shearer was saying the other night, the fact that he was recognising that Salah really, despite his effort, uh Father Time had caught up with him, and he says, as it does with all of us. And I thought that was you know, Shearer must have known when his he wasn't he was losing that yard of pace. And I thought that was quite insightful, really.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

There's a difference there though, you've got Rooney's not running the show, he's he'll have gone through media training and all the rest of it, but he's there as a as a guest pundit, right? So that's what he's there for. So he's you know, he's not gonna be Danny Murphy is a full-time professional uh you know, sports presenter, sheer is, right? So there's that practice and articulation, one comes from their you know, their own their own strengths, but also training and and and I'm not saying that Wayne Rooney would be able to do that, but he's there, like you say, for mic drop moments to go, well, you know, I've won it. I mean he was quite funny, he he was quite funny the other night because I I listened afterwards on the what was it on Prime, and uh there was a big obviously forensic analysis afterwards for a good 45 minutes of the Liverpool game, and Daniel Sturridge was there, and honestly, Rooney was brilliant because he you could tell he got his United Stroke Everton head on, and he was he was just turning the knife every couple of minutes, and Daniel Sturridge kept biting, and so he'll do it because he's he'll he was just having a little bit of a niggle with him, um but when it comes to journalism and and those I mean like Ned Amanua, that is a random one for you, but Ned and Amanua, the old city player, who played at a decent level, but it's not a name that that many people know. He's actually incredibly articulate and well spoken, and whenever he's on he he he puts these whole arguments together beautifully, Micah Richards is there for comedy values, but if you listen to his if you listen to his actual analysis, sorry Micah, but there's no depth to it. No, there's no depth to it. He he's just there with his felt-tipped pen, you know, saying things that any guy would in the pub. And actually, some of these guys that are now on like the Arsenal guy, Rory, right? Obviously, I've got an I've got a bit of a wind up with Arsenal, but he's actually very good and he talks and they talk very fairly and they talk they talk well with articulation, much better than Mark Goldbridge.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Well, the cr the question the question's gonna be whether the young upstart manager can hold it together to the end of the season and uh see Arsenal through, or whether the um what would you call him? What would you how would you sum up Pep? He's he's not quite the professor because he's much cooler than that.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

He's the Jedi. He's the Jedi, isn't he? Because all these other guys are just his his uh apprentices, aren't they? And they genuinely are. And can Arteta get it over the line? Can he get it over the line, or are they gonna bottle job it?

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Well, I'll tell you what, on that bombshell, may the force be with you. Uh enjoy enjoy your uh your coffee in the sun or wherever you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 51:11

And uh let's see, let's see if he's is chirpy next week when we do the next one after Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

Hey, listen, all I'm saying is this is the difference. It will not be the if we if we go wrong at the weekend, we go wrong at the weekend. Right? We'll be back again next year and we'll win it. If we win it this year, it's because of what Arsenal have done, not what we've done. Right? So I'm dead chilled about it. If we if it's whoever, you know, let it let's just have the battle, and whoever comes good, comes good. But I won't be crying in my bottle next week, panicking, um, because we've got a cup under a belt, and if it's Arsenal's year, it's Arsenal's year. But let's just test their resolve and let's see if little Cherky can do another wind up on them.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Well, there you go. Um, you can we'll be back next week. It'll be interesting weekend of football, huge weekend of football. It always is at this time of the season. Um hopefully you get to watch it in the sun and uh get yourself a pair of chase like our dome. Uh, you've been listening to the Theatre of Dreams Extra Time, Richard Irvine, Dome the Glasses Bar, and uh Thank you very much. Good night, and God bless. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

See you guys.