Red Flags & Client Breakups

This week I’m   tackling the delicate topic of recognising and addressing red flags in client relationships for interior designers. I’ll talk through the importance of trusting one's instincts when a project doesn't feel right and offer strategies for gracefully declining work that doesn't align with your vision. Through personal anecdotes and practical advice, listeners get a taste of  how to communicate effectively, maintain professional boundaries, and learn from challenging projects. This episode is an essential listen for designers looking to navigate client interactions confidently while protecting their creative integrity and business values. You may even recognise some red flags you've let slide in the past?

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Transcript

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Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleandra Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you could expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success. I put this question out to my framework is the students inside of my course for emerging designers last week around. Is there any topics you'd like me like my hot take on or to chat about on the podcast and one thing that came up a couple of times was around red flags, spotting them, what to do with them, how to break up with clients, like all that stuff that feels counterintuitive to. Being creative, being a bit of a people pleaser or like really wanting to deliver the outcome that is in your marketing, you want to give people beautiful home transformations, but sometimes we're just not a really great fit with another human and that is okay. So let's dive into my take on red flags, remembering that no is a complete sentence. So I'm going to say that for us one more time, it's not my words obviously, but no is a complete sentence. You don't need to lie, justify, apologize. Practice statements such as, thank you for your patience while I pulled these details together, instead of saying things like, sorry, this is later than intended, sorry after the in home initial consult, I've decided I don't want to go ahead, you don't need to apologise for that, it is about ascertaining if you're a good mutual fit, so if you go there and your gut tells you this is not going to be a project that will light you up, this is not a project that you want to take on, it's You don't need to say sorry for that, but you do need to be clear and concise and firm and fair with your clients if they get. You don't want to be leaving them hanging, thinking, okay could we just do it in six months time? If you do not want to do the job, you're better off just being a bit of a band aid. Firm, fair, sharp, quick, and get it done. So I liken it to, this is advice from my teenage self, that when you would break up with a boyfriend, and if that was something you were doing on back and forth, like on text or something like that, then At the end, when you no longer want to engage in this conversation, you say what you need to say and then you're like, Take care. When you take care someone, if you've been take cared, you can't come back from take care. There's nothing else to say. It's the most frustrating, slightly passive aggressive probably, way to end like a text message because you're like, Okay then, take care. It's like I'm being nice to you, but I also don't want you to counter back with something else. So there is the opportunity within your business to sign off and it doesn't have to be the phrasing take care, but you can think of it as how do I take care to these clients. Learning to spot the red flags in the beginning and backing yourself if your gut says this is just not going to be a good fit is really tough, even in the intro call, and especially when you're new, you may be doing everything to try to get to grow leads and grow discovery calls. It feels counterintuitive to have a discovery call and then be like, this person sounds crazy in the coconut and you're like, I'm going to take it anyway. And that's okay. That's your prerogative. This is your business that you're starting. They're your boundaries to set and it is your, the one dealing with the negativity and the poor outcomes if you do take things with red flags. And I'm a big believer that the red flags In the beginning, actually teach you to tighten processes to strengthen boundaries. They teach you more than a whole bunch of green flag clients ever will. So I to sit back a little bit and play devil's advocate, private coaching and my framework is and I'm like, look. I see the red flags. I'll help point them out for you. I still think if you're wanting to do it, which most of them really are in that 1st year, they're like, I still want the job. I want the money. I want the experience. I want the portfolio growth, but cool. Let's do it. But let's be very clear inside of the framework. There is a big template for a portfolio. For a client and job postmortem, and I am very encouraging to say we need to be doing that, especially if we took on something with the red flag, because then you can identify what went well in this job. What didn't? What would I do differently? How was this process? Who was really leading this process? Was it client led? Was it designer led? And just a real reflection piece that is incredibly important, I think, for the first year after every client that you work with. So every time these red flags discussions comes up in our workshop or our weekly mentoring, I am very clear to say that my advice is definitely to decline this work from the start for X, Y, and Z reasons, or I might talk through with the girls around, look, wherever I have let that red flag go, this is usually the outcome. It's not to say it always will be. So they get a bit of an indication of what's ahead. Completely understand that when you're building a business and you're in the beginning, you're happy to grow portfolio, you're happy to take the deposit, practice your end to end processes and systems in place, make sure that they're working and learn a lot from these. So I don't think there's a problem, but there does come a time inside of your business where you need to be building boundaries and much more firm. And when you spot these red flags, you need to be declining that work as often as possible. It's really important to remember that it is not your job to twist into the shape that matches their needs. They have a preconceived notion of how much an interior designer might cost. It's not your job to discount your Design firms rates to match that expectation. It's not your job to design to a budget that is not realistic, for example, or if they have already collected a whole bunch of things, and they just want. Quotation marks. I'm doing here in the studio, finishing touches. It's not your job to make your services and offerings twisted into a pretzel, a pick and mix and just match everything around and give them a quote. Yes, we do bespoke quoting for bespoke jobs, but I'm talking about the kind of client that's yeah, that's good. But is it cheaper if I don't get that? The 3D render, for example, or doing those sorts of things. So they could be big red flags. And I'll get into some actual examples in a moment. I guess my point here is just that your clients are really resourceful. They can search the internet for a better fit. If you take on a client and you wish you didn't say yes to them, resentment will absolutely foster. That job will never improve from that beginning interaction or in my experience has never gotten any better. Okay. So in today's episode, I'm going to list out and talk to a bunch of red flags that I have seen quite a few times. And then I'm going to talk you through a couple of different ways that you can either say no to doing a job or let down a client in the middle of a job, which does have to happen sometimes. So let's get into it. Okay, the first red flag is a reluctance to let you lead or follow processes. So once you've had a few clients, you might start to recognize this where people aren't listening in the discovery call or they're jumping ahead or they're asking, Oh, don't worry about sending me the formal invoice. I can just pay it on the day when you get here for the initial consultation or things like that, where they're constantly undermining your authority within your business and your Processes and trying to lead the interaction over and over. It's a bit of a, it feels like a balancing act or a power act and it's really distracting and it takes you away from being able to follow your process map and your customer journey and the touch points, especially when you're learning, I've already mapped out that step 2, I'm going to send you an invoice and whatever that is for you. And if they're saying, jump ahead of step 2, take me to step 4, and then you will miss out on important parts, like including the welcome guide or making sure that invoice is paid before you rock up on the day to the initial consult. It's very important that you calmly. redirect people. Look, I'm really sorry. I do have a process that I need to abide by within the business just to make sure that I am making sure to get service agreements signed and invoices paid. So it's important to the success of our design outcome that actually do follow that process and nothing gets missed. This one for me is not an immediate. Oh my goodness. I'm not working with you. I think sometimes clients genuinely just get really excited. Often I speak to people who are working with me who followed my Instagram for two, three years sometimes and will say, Ah, I've been waiting to either convince my partner to let me do it or we were waiting to build the house or the new room is ready. What not? And they are really excited to get into the design process. And then they're like, that's the boring stuff, right? A service agreement and invoice. Of course, they know they have to pay for the work, but sometimes it's not intentionally that they're trying to lead the interaction. Sometimes it's actually that they're so excited. They're like, okay, come over, let's do it all. Let's do it now. So just gently redirecting and reminding them you have a process you need to float and that is going to deliver them the greatest outcome. Okay, the next one, they're unsure of their own needs. This one can be a little bit from column A, a little bit from column B when it comes to authentically just, I'm not really sure, we're looking for guidance from a designer as to what would make it better. And the other version of that is when they're just like, oh, I don't know what furniture is going to be needed, what should I don't know where to stay, what should go. I don't know my style. I don't know anything about design. I don't they almost, it's almost as though they don't know why they're even there at all. So that can be a bit of a red flag if they're really unsure of their own needs. And sometimes it's a matter of being able to visually articulate things or pull information out of them and that's fine. That's part of our role and you can knock this one on the head if you are able to get some more information. Sometimes it's just a bit of a shyness or an inability at the beginning, but if they truly have no idea what they want, no idea what they like, no idea what they don't like yeah, red flag. This is a big one for me and it's happened to me, I think, three times in my career and all three times the actual job that we have gone on to. If I've ignored this flag and I've gone on to do the job, it has been really difficult to please them. And that red flag is that they've parted ways with the designer previously, okay? Even, or they've never worked with the designer, it's not necessarily a red flag, but it's important to ask inside of your discovery call. If somebody says, we've had someone come through to do this and we just weren't happy with her work, or we'll send you what she gave us. So we didn't like the style, et cetera, et cetera. I'm immediately the, shackled up on my back because I'm immediately like, that smacks to me of an inability to communicate. Not that the designer is not a good designer. There are very few designers out there operating and running businesses that aren't excellent at matching their client's needs to the outcome provided. And at least one case, it was another Melbourne designer and. What this potential client sent me, her whole packet, which I thought was a bit dodgy because I felt bad that she, I've now seen all of her deliverables. She was a property stylist and also did some mood boarding and her mood boards were beautiful and her deliverables were lovely and there was nothing wrong with her and everything wrong with the client. So for me, it was like, thank you for the opportunity. At this time, it is not a project that I'm going to be moving forward with. And I just felt really bad for the designer because I felt as though that client was going around effectively saying that she wasn't providing a very good. Result when in fact, I saw the designs and I also heard mildly in a quick discovery call from this client what their brief was and her design matched their brief. So somewhere between there. It's a complete communication breakdown, I think. And in another case, earlier on, I actually took the job when they had worked with another designer and they weren't really happy with it. And these particular clients were some really difficult clients to please. They were the sort of clients that had seen something in a designer showroom and then you would get quotes for that and trade quotes for that and share that Information and doing quite a bit of back and forward only for them to have hoped that it would cost the same as a day is or something they would pick up in Westfield. So quite. Difficult to manage that expectation to constantly be saying this is a designer luxury service and you are choosing pieces from Melino Furniture showrooms, which is a high end luxury furniture brand. They are not going to be selling you that for 150 for the bedside table. So it was a bit difficult and I think it was part of the problem with the previous. designer that they had worked with. She was not a wizard and she was unable to wipe her wand and magically take zeros off price tags. And incidentally, neither was I. So that was one client I did need to break up with because our mutual expectations just were not aligned. We could not get on the same page from a budget perspective and a style perspective. This one's a big bugbear of mine, and if anyone ever does actually ask you this is definitely a red flag when they want you to work for exposure. Okay? We don't work for free. That's not work, that's play. If somebody truly admires your work and truly thinks that they have an opportunity that will allow you exposure, that opportunity is almost certainly a paid opportunity because if they really think that your work is amazing, they will go to the marketing department and ask for budget in order to hire you to do whatever it is they're asking you to do for free. And so one of the easiest ways to combat that is just to come back and say, this sounds like an amazing project. What sort of budget do you have for design fees? Just never feel bad about. Asking those sorts of questions. If they come back and say, Oh, look, we haven't got any budget. We were hoping you'd do it for exposure. Then, you're not going to go back and be like, yeah, okay, cool. What about you do what you do for me for free as well? And we'll call it a swap fee. I'm very funny about this. I don't like people coming to me and saying, Hey, would you like to make us a mood board for free? I also get a bit funny when. My mood boards are featured in like EDMs, not so much if I've tagged someone and it's on Instagram and then they share in their stories. That's amazing. That's exposure. Yes. And it's something that I was doing anyway, or it was client work. And if I've tagged them, I want them to share. Share it. That is the nature of social media. But sometimes what I have found is people have gained access to my mood boards through directly the mood board tool or they've seen me use their products on Instagram and then they've used it as a marketing collateral in EDMs or for their content. I don't know what else like digital media on their websites without notifying me without asking permission. And I, that is 1 thing that I will get up in your DMs and say, hey, I actually have retail clients because I do, I have contracts with certain retailers where I make them mood boards on a retainer or on a subscription monthly basis. 1 of the revenue streams in my business is that I build mood boards for retailers. When a retailer just take something and then puts it as. An EDM header, it's without asking permission. I feel as though it does a disservice to my paying retailer clients, if that makes sense. Anyway, a bit off topic, but always stick up for yourself is my point, in this. It doesn't hurt to reach out. I had a framework and not that long ago get featured by a brand without crediting her in any way and using her finished styled room imagery. And she, did the right thing. She reached out and just said, Hey, I'm glad that you loved the look and how I've used your product. If you wouldn't mind tagging me. Or giving me credit for the image and the design. That would be fantastic. And it was purely an oversight. Probably. I don't think there was any maliciousness in this particular or in many of these situations, but it never pays off to just sit meekly and let people do that. Because then later on, like, how do you justify your fees for the retailers who are paying? If you're like, or you could just wait until I choose your chair and then just take it and use it in your email anyway. Let's get back to red flags. Another red flag. They want to jump the queue. This one comes up a lot. What, when you are discussing timeline in the discovery call, a lot of people like, we need to go as soon as possible. Or the SLS being put on this day, and we need to start now because we're doing the whole house. Or Christmas is around the corner. I've got family coming, so can I get, can we, get started right now? And if I'm presenting to you, actually I have a 12 week wait list in order to work with me, this, that and the other. And they're like, oh. Is there any way we can just jiggle anyone around or getting first people who aren't prepared to wait quite impatient people by nature to work with. I feel like they want everything yesterday that I understand that things need to be intentional and considered in order to be beautiful designs that are delivered and it's never been a really great experience. Anyone who's wanted to jump the queue and get in earlier than my wait list has always been a bit of a nightmare to work with if I'm honest. The next red flag you may hear from time to time on your discovery call is they just need. So using, almost downplaying your value and what you are going to be doing for them. I just need some finishing touches. We just need a little bit of help with the living room. I just going to need a little bit of advice. It's actually rude, I think, because what goes on in the background is hours and hours of scrolling. It's the skill to know When to use negative space and when to curate and edit and remove things that are wrong, it's pulling things together that work with your existing pieces. It's not just the little thing. And when I hear that a lot, not only do I feel a little bit probably defensive about it, but I also think, I don't come to your work and I don't say to you, I'm And imagining you're an accountant and everyone would be like, oh, it's just a little bit of advice on my tax for this quarter. That's nothing. Wade carefully through this territory. If you're hearing a lot of people, if you're getting that vibe that they are downplaying the value of what you deliver, you do need to, again, redirect. But you do need to be saying, that sounds like a little bit more of a larger scope of work than even one full room mood board. Bespoke pricing because it is. individually a longer list of items than are actual standard inclusions in my eDesign packages, for example. So it's always just reminding them without being like, it's not just a little thing that I do, but just reminding them once again, yep, let me write down everything that it is that you'll need me to scope out and select for you, and then I'll let you know how much it would cost to hire me to do that job. I saw a meme a while ago that is one of my all time favorites, I think, when it comes to service based businesses. And it was around, obviously sending off a quote or a scope of work to a client. And the client's come back and said, can I have a full itemized rundown of exactly what this looks like, et cetera, et cetera. So this person had obviously been value pricing or pricing for the outcome, the total outcome. And the person wrote back and said, sure, you can. It's, 2, 555 for me to do the job or 0 for me to not do the job. So it's really a reminder that, yes, while we do often itemize things out or explain the inclusions, I'm not trying to be vague with clients, but when they are Constantly telling you, look, I just need this. I just need that. It's good to keep reminding yourself, that's fine, that's actually sitting outside of a standard package, and I'm gonna need to listen and take in all of the information and then scope out the work and then provide you with a quote to do that work so that you're being fair to both parties, because sometimes they're actually right. It is just a smaller amount than a regular package. So that's not a good fit either. Almost 100 percent of the time, it's not the case at all. They're just perceiving it to be a little bit here and a little bit there, not that much, and it's actually more than you normally would include. Next red flag. They want to negotiate fees. My fees are certainly non negotiable. If somebody comes through and is asking for a discount or asking to negotiate fees, they're, they're within their right to do obviously, people will always turn it on, but I'm very quick to say, look, I appreciate. That this might not be in your budget right now. Interior Design is a luxury service and if the original quote doesn't fit your expectations, you have a couple of options. You can obviously wait and save up and work with me when it is more realistically. Available to you. And sometimes I'll throw in a value add as well. Like I can appreciate that. I don't actually have the ability to provide any discounts because I price in a way that reflects my value. And I have created all of this pricing based around what I offer, how I pass on trade discounts and this, that and the other. But you can say, I tell you what I will do. I'll throw in an extra revision for you. And just something that's a bit of bait. a bit of a goodwill initiative, if you will. You're just letting them know that you've heard them. You're sorry you don't actually play in that discount space and these are the reasons why and this is what you can do instead. Okay, I'm going to bundle these next two red flags together because we've talked about them a little bit around leading processes, but clients who won't pay on time and won't sign a contract. Huge red flag. Stop. Do not pass. Go. Do not collect 200. This is the only instance, even When you are new, where I would say to students, we cannot work with this person, if you won't sign a service agreement that I have provided to you, that is protects my business, protects me from litigation, I will not work with you. and you should not work with them either. They can question the contract and I can clarify, and I can even sometimes amend things that I can see their point of view and think, yep, okay. A good example, private coaching client of mine recently had a client just ask around photography rights and if they could have signed up before photographs were shared across certain platforms, which this is people's intimate spaces, their home. I see that as a perfectly reasonable question and you could go back and talk about that, but they still need to be prepared to sign the contract. Once you have made some amendments, or once you've talked about, you cannot move forward in a project with somebody who refuses to pay your contract or won't pay your invoice on time. Just because you've sent the invoice doesn't mean the invoice has been paid. So just because you've sent the invoice does not mean that you drive over to the initial consultation, which should be a paid consultation, and I'm treating it accordingly here. But if they have not paid the invoice, you do not get in the car. Because they're going to have that initial consult, and it is so hard to chase them up for that one invoice for something they've already basically cashed in their chips, they've gotten everything that they need if you've been over there, yeah, sure, you could say, hey I need you to pay the invoice before I will send over the quote or the scope of work, they're like, mate, you were here for an hour and a half, and you told me all your ideas anyway. Just be really careful with that. These two are non negotiables for me. Okay, and this last one is true of all creative businesses, and it can be just a bit of a vibe. I don't think it's always. In fact, I know it is never the case that someone says to you, I don't really value interior design in general, but there's a vibe. There's a feeling. There's a like downplaying. There's a language. Certain words are used. They, Okay. Just need this, a little bit of that, how you just fluff them, push it there can be some stuff that comes out that makes you feel a bit like, it's a little more involved than that, but thank you for your opinions. This red flag to me is not a deal breaker. If somebody doesn't value design, it's my job to explain to them what it is about what I do. that is unlike anything else that they can get out there and why they should work with me. But if that still isn't enough, I'm not twisting myself into a pretzel to impress you. I'm going to be like, okay, it doesn't sound like we're a really great mutual fit and good luck finding what you're looking for. All right, so you may or may not recognize some of those. It's good to have them probably in your back pocket to be like, oh, that might be what she means when she was talking about that in that podcast episode, when and if it appears, because I have seen all of these. I've seen them multiple times, and I haven't always said no to the job, as I've mentioned previously, when going through these red flags. Occasionally, a red flag is a red and it can be ironed out, but nearly always, if it is clear to you, and if your gut is giving you that sign, you should definitely decline and run in the opposite direction. Don't be afraid to say no to money. Money is one of those things that. You only have one spot in your calendar. Okay. And if you fill that spot with client X and client X is covered in red flags, and 2 months later, when the timeline, the kickoff meeting is about to start, you get a phone call from client Y, who is green flags, your dream job. Perfect thing. Your calendar only has one blocked out week that you're working with client X, and you cannot take the job for client Y. So you're still saying no to somebody, but it is the green flag dream job that you want, that you have to say no to, and you have to say no so that you are stuck working over here with the red flag guys. And that is a miserable experience, I can tell you. So think about your calendar like that. Every time that you fill a position in that calendar, It has to light you up because there is only one spot. There's only one February 22nd or February whatever. I nearly said 31st. That would be ridiculous. There are none of those. Yeah, so you only have one spot in your calendar. So to me it's really important that whoever's name goes into that meeting, into that calendar that they are But there's someone that you really want to work with, or it's a job that you really want to do the same inside of the framework. It's not just buy it online and enter the framework. It's always a little phone call or a chat and make sure that you're aligned with all the other girls that are in there because I have a responsibility to them as well to make sure that the group flows and there's no one in there that's It's not committed to launching an interior design business and, if you're going to share all of this stuff, you want to make sure that it's a safe space. You really do owe it to yourself to be protective of that calendar and to make sure that you are just saying yes to as many things that are, if not always green flags, they're at least something where you didn't see any issues ahead of time. Alright, so there are a couple of ways that we can say no to clients. It's as simple as an email after or before. If it's usually you've had your discovery call, your paid initial consultation will be where you get the most sort of red flag indicators. So once you've had that consultation, if you're feeling like I really don't want to move forward with this job, it's not going to be one that I love, then you simply send an email with phrases such as I appreciate being considered. I really enjoyed connecting. Right now we don't have the capacity. It's not a great fit for my focus going forward. You don't have to explain why and you do not have to apologize, but you do need to be clear so they understand that you won't be actually taking this job. Most of us, myself included, the truth actually feels like the best fit. Dear potential clients, thank you so very much for your time on the Zoom meeting. I've really been doing a lot of thinking about our conversation and I believe that I am not the right designer for your project. This is a really hard call to make and I don't decline projects lightly. I just did not feel that we had the kind of personal and emotional connection I need to feel in order to have a successful working relationship. I've learned to trust my instincts. On this over the years, and I just don't feel I'm the right fit. That's the kind of communication that I would write because look, maybe there'll be a little bit offended and maybe they weren't, but it's honest. And it's, there's nothing they can really argue back about that. They can't say, no, you have to take, can we, if we switch our dates, if we increase our budget you've not put it on them really. So they can't try to negotiate and I don't know. The communication talks about my own feelings and needs, and it doesn't say that they're not right for me. It's saying that I don't feel that I'm a right fit for them. So I'm not criticizing or blaming them for anything. It's just, that's one form of communication that I have used before. That's a direct template from outside of the framework. And I don't use it with every situation, but certainly where I've really felt that they've tried to take the reins refuse to pay the contract, that sort of stuff, then that's definitely the approach that I would take. Some people like to take the approach of recommending some other people that they can work with. My personal opinion on that is they are resourceful, they are adults, they can Google. Interior designers in a local area or go and find their own. And if I'm feeling that I don't want to take a job for red flag reasons, I sure as heck don't want to give it to a peer or colleague. I don't think that's fair to say I got a icky feeling about this and I didn't want to Bring this business into my business, but hey, you can have it. I don't think that's a good fit for me as a person. It doesn't align with my values. However, there have been times where I have said no to work and it hasn't necessarily been because of red flags, but a lack of availability or perhaps the design style isn't quite, there are a couple of styles that I just. Simply don't wanna do, and so therefore I won't. And I do know some designers who excel in that style, and that would be an instance where I would say, Hey, it's not going to be something that fits with my future focus and I'm not going to participate. But here's a list of a couple of excellent designers that I know that you could contact who would be more than happy to take on the job. Okay, before I go, I do want to talk to the idea of what do we do when you've started a job and you're working in the job and that job turns to Red Flag Central and you're really not having a good time for all sorts of reasons, those red flags are going to be quite personal to what's happened on the project and what's going on, but they can be everything from you. Being spoken to poorly. I've been yelled at before and I didn't start my own business to have somebody swear at me and yell at me over something completely outside of my fault. And I've been told, Oh, he's always like that. It's stressful building a house. I understand all of that, but I am an extremely Agreeable and friendly person. And I think that I professionally represent my business and I've never been on site being rude or aggressive and I never would and I will never tolerate it either. So I do feel that there is a time to say, Hey, I need to pause this project meeting and I need to step away from this situation and I will be in touch via email and it can be, I'll have my people call your people because this is over. I'm going to read you a couple of different ways that I would send emails to clients. This is another one that is more around when you've had an initial consultation, but you don't want to go ahead. So I would be, thank you for considering Oleander and Finch and Cherry Design. It was lovely to connect with you earlier in the week and I'm beyond grateful for the opportunity to review if we are a good mutual fit. A project undertaken in your home is a very personal undertaking and the privilege of being considered is not lost on me. After careful review, I feel that I cannot fully commit all of my resources and attention to your project. With my current schedule, I feel that your project deserves more attention and time than I am able to provide right now. And then optional, give references, like I'm enclosing a couple of people I think could fit you in. That's if there weren't very many red flags, but I was possibly weary for other reasons. All the red flags were acceptable, but not acceptable to me. I genuinely don't really send recommendations, as I mentioned before. So I'd skip that part. And the second option is a waitlist. If you're just wanting to see how keen they are, if one of the red flags, you just don't think they value you or something like that, you might say, I'll schedule for a project of your size is opening in X months. I can put you on our waitlist. If you want to let me know by. February or something like that. Yeah, so I think there are different ways that you can break up with clients before you've even started in a really fair and kind way that represents your brand well, but just because you do an initial in home consultation, you don't owe them anything. That's just because somebody pays for dinner. You don't need to owe them anything. It's really important that you remember that each part of your process. Okay. You have an exit clause. You don't have to go into the next phase if it just isn't feeling right. And now when it comes to breaking up with clients in the middle of projects, I haven't had to do it very often. I have definitely done it in my business and I haven't done it lightly. I have really ummed and ahed about What is the right way to communicate that? How do I do it in a really fair manner? How do I make sure that the client doesn't feel that they're a terrible human being? And that we can split the difference, on what's remaining on the scope of work. One. That, is my most recent one. I just started to get a bit of a feeling that, I was trying to source pieces and they were also sourcing pieces and out and about shopping and sending photos a lot and then getting trade quotes and then taking those trade quotes and undercutting them directly with retailers. It just got like really messy. The form of communication was slipping, I was getting WhatsApp. Messages and text messages and the reins were really out of my hands after a little while, as well as I had a full zoom consultation and provided two concepts only to be told, actually, we want to color and style that we didn't mention once on the initial brief. So it really was a difficult it was difficult for me to do what I needed to do at my end, and it was not actually a reflection on the clients that they were really lovely. But we were not, it wasn't working something. Someone had to pull the pin, or I would still be providing iterations and revisions for a design that I really just didn't know what they wanted. I tried sending different concepts. I tried Pinterest boards and it was like, I just was not getting it which is rare. It never happened to me before. And I, yeah, I just really felt as though I provided exactly the exact outcome based that matches the brief, but then you're second guessing the brief. So things were just getting a little bit out of hand. So my email to them, dear insert client name, thank you for updating me on all your recent furniture explorations. It's great to hear that you're actively engaged in finding pieces that resonate with your personal style. Even if it sounds like you drove all over Melbourne and then I just wrote some other things that were specific to our relationship. Reflecting on our journey so far, I appreciate the time and effort you've put into exploring various options for your space at your end. However, I have noticed that our design visions and processes seem to be diverging. Whilst it's not uncommon for preferences to evolve over the course of the project, it appears that your needs and my design approach may not be as aligned as I'd hoped. My space for all of us. Design service is usually more of a selection based service rather than a fulfillment based service. And I really don't feel comfortable at this point proceeding to final invoice stage and collecting the balance without providing my usual level of support. I then went on to mention just some things around it. It is really important to me that anything that has my logo or brand on it is actually designed by me. And so that can't be clients sending pictures of Pieces of furniture from stores that they're in and saying, can you just pop that in the mood board and say, that is a fulfillment model and not a selection or curation, which is what I pride myself on offering. And that is what they paid for. The email goes on and I talked a little bit about, I believe it's in both our best interest to reassess our partnership because my goal as the designer is to bring a lot of value through my expertise, discounts and resources. And I'm getting a sense that you might find it more satisfactory to be hands on and take that sort of approach and get to make the selections yourself. So I did definitely make it. They're aware that's not the process throughout the time that all of that was happening. And look, I'm sure that I don't know how that email was received because I never was responded to and that is completely. Okay. I think that they were aware. Hey, maybe we're not moving forward. The other thing that I did with that email is I attached a scope of work that I had done so far what they had paid so far, which is the 50%. Okay. Deposit as per my payment structure and how I had over delivered on that 50%. So I wouldn't be asking for any more or the final payment, but I also would not be moving forward to do any more work. So I hope that's been helpful just to have a bit of a behind the scenes look at some of the ways that I have approached breaking up with clients. I'm very careful obviously to not want to identify any of those clients I've broken up with over the last couple of years. And none of them have actually done anything wrong. I want to be very clear in case anyone does listen. It can be a number of factors, and I will take full ownership, especially in the early days. A lot of those factors were my inability to set boundaries, my inability to recognize red flags and my inability to push back or stand up for myself. So if you recognize yourself in that or you think this could be a helpful episode for someone else that you know that runs a service based business, please share it. Please get the word out there flick it to a friend pop it on a Facebook group. The link is, you just grab the link on Apple or Spotify and share it with somebody else, because I really think we can never have too many reminders that we are in control of the success that we are designing and that's our business, our rules, and some of the things that we need to look out for, especially when you're new and you may not have seen those things before. Join me on Thursday. I am going to be interviewing, chatting to Emma, who is the founder of Formery Architecture and Interior Design. Emma is a former student of mine inside of the framework, but I'm loving seeing what her approach has been to systemizing and the back end of her business, as well as just some really great reminders that she gave me around how we've Front up to business every day and some of the philosophies of running your own business and protecting your health and lots of other things that I know you're going to love. I will chat to you then. That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.