Designing your dreams with Crystal Bailey

This chat with  Crystal Bailey, was so much fun. - Hold on for insights and real talk about kicking off and running an interior design biz. Crystal's been everywhere - from solo projects to the big leagues, designing interiors that are straight-up dreamy. She spilled the beans on how keeping things real with your clients, especially when you're deep into those big, fancy projects, is super key. She talks about the challenges of running a business as a solo mum. 

Crystal's all about mixing it up. She's got this cool way of looking at marketing, seeing opportunities everywhere, and really making the most of her past wins. And for anyone just starting out or hitting a rut, she's living proof that with a bit of hustle and a lot of heart, you can make big waves in the design world. From leveraging your experiences to diving into collaborations that can really elevate your business. it's all about staying true to your vision and pushing boundaries. It was a blast getting into the nitty-gritty of making it in interior design with Crystal. She's totally got this vibe that anything's possible if you're up for the challenge, and say yes to the opportunities and adventures that come your way.

connect with Crystal here https://www.instagram.com/crystalbailey.co

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Transcript

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Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleandra Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you could expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success. My guest today on Designing Success is somebody many of you will actually already be aware of if you follow her on Instagram. and very successful way of showing up, of supporting other women, and because it is International Women's Day, day this weekend on Friday, I thought, what a great time to bring this conversation where you can hear two people doing similar things in the industry, collaborating, sharing ideas and really looking at what we can do when we work together as opposed to in competition, which there was none of that between Crystal and I, we had such a great chat. I hope you'll enjoy it. A little reminder before we get stuck in that I am taking on up to 10 new students on Friday or over the weekend into the framework. I have had a lot of early interest and enrollment applications. So if you are interested in getting serious with your business for the remaining three quarters of this year and first quarter of next year, where you'll still be with us at DM me anytime over on Instagram at oleander underscore and underscore Finch for now, please enjoy my conversation with the always gorgeous Crystal Bailey. Hey, Crystal, how are you going? Hi, good. Thanks. Yeah, a lot going on. Yeah, I know. I've been following along your social media, so I'm very privileged that we could get this chat together. Have you done many podcasts in the past? I feel like I haven't heard that many with you on there as a guest. I did one last week, so Okay, cool. Solo, solo parenting and I did a podcast interview a year ago on my story. So different areas. I've been interviewed. I've done a podcast two podcasts, I think three last year may be just on business. So they're just different areas of my life, whether it's a solo mom or whether it's running a business or whether it's designing interiors, like they're always on different, as. So it's really interesting to be featured on so many different podcasts. Again, my marketing needs some help. So I've just hired a marketing assistant a few weeks ago because I have done so many things that nobody knows about. They're like, Oh, you did a three birds renovation operation. Yeah. I painted the caravan. Oh, you've been on a TV show. Yes. I was a face of a shopping center. Yes. I just like. Don't promote myself in that way. I'd still like to be a very relatable woman. I do show up and sometimes not share what I've actually done. Yeah. And when we talk about like repurposing content and stuff like that, when you have a lot going on and when you're constantly stretching yourself to experience new things and be on new, those older things are still really great messages to share and things that people would love to stumble across and be like, Oh, wow. Love what you did with this caravan, but we don't. Always have the space and time when you're a solopreneur and you're doing it all yourself to drag out that content and repurpose it. I'm all about dreams in the future. So I'm very much about, Hey, what's next? What's next? I never usually reflect back on my past and go, Oh, that's right. I've worked with Jamie Drury. I've done this. I've had Shelley craft in my shop. And I just, I've done so much. I feel like I, everyone calls me the cat who's had nine lives. Cause I have done. A lot of things and I've had 10 years of even being a musician where I've sung to Leonardo DiCaprio and I just have had record deals. So I always go out and I think of my dreams are so big. I achieve big, but it's always what's the next stream? What's the next stream? And I just don't often go back and reflect on things. Cause I'm just not someone who. Does the past thing too much or just keeps leveraging that past up. I'm always because I always believe that there's new opportunities for us. And there's always a blank canvas. And sometimes you're only as good as your last project. And so even if we have done a project 3, 4 years ago, it's what's the most recent one we've done. So I guess I tend to focus so much more on the future, the present and the future that I just forget about. Oh, that's right. I've done that in the past. So it's just part of my personality, but it's very good to leverage things. It's very good to do your marketing. And especially when you're starting out, it's so great to just get your foot in the door and leverage that because that's exactly what I did when I started my career, it's like you get like dust in your review mirror when you've got a lot ahead of you and you're really excited, but yeah, at the beginning, you can reflect a lot, learn a lot as you go, because all of those projects, it's important that you stop and think what went well, what would I change? What would I like to grow? But the growth can be Like a baptism of fire and like an organic movement, isn't it? Like sometimes it just grows faster than you and I don't have time behind me. It's I've never not had work. I've never not had projects. Even when, during COVID I lived in a bell tent and that was when I landed. Like my best clients, like Jane Liu who started so many companies and she was a judge on shark tank. I was living in a tent when I landed that job. So many people have this misconception that you need to have the big design studio, all of this money, or the whole team before you land the big clients. Not really. You just. Need to be a really friendly person driven. You need to have goals and dreams and you need to go out and make them happen. That's literally it. You need to believe in it and you need to go out and make it happen. Be unattached to whether they write back or not, but offer your value, offer your services, get your foot in the door, and then use that as leverage. That's the rest out when I, then I, and I think so many people live in this world when I, then I, when I hit this, then I'll have this. And sometimes I personally fall into that trap as well. Oh, when I have the design studio, then I'll feel more professional. Not really like this setup I've created now is literally just in my garage. And there's just, these are doors behind me that I stuck pieces of timber to, for my floating sample shelves. But this is just a makeshift. Set up in my garage, but I've also had a massive design studio in the country where I did have the whole shop and kit and caboodle with my name plastered all over it. So I've just, I've done all of those things already, but it doesn't determine the projects I take on and attract or the team that I have, or who I am as a person. I think some people just need to start what everyone needs to start, but some people just need to stop that mentality of. When I, then I, and just go from the startup and just keep going keep going. Yeah, you might, you will have a design studio if that's your, what you want. Like I even thought about it last week. Do I go get, I've now got a team. Do I now go get a design studio and pay 500 a week on rent again? I'm like, Oh, do I want to spend 2 grand a month on my rent or do I want to spend 2 grand a month saving for my trip to Bali or Europe? Is it going to affect me and my team, how we work? Not really. We work from cafes and we work from my house anyway. So they just come over upstairs to my house or come here, but I don't know if I need the design studio yet. I just don't, my life is a life where my dream. Life was to have flexibility and freedom. And I feel like if I go and pay that two grand a month for my ego to have this design studio with my name on it, is it going to attract bigger and better clients? I don't think so. I think my online presence is my social media is it's better off investing two grand a month into my staff to, or build a website or, like it's. I just think there's better ways to do things now. So right now I don't think so, but I tend to just go, maybe that's what I need. It's it's such a good message. That progress over perfection the backdrop looks beautiful. Mine is drop sheets around like a. Pin board that are on my studio and I'm going to actually do that on this wall. Cause I love it. You get the massive ones at Bunnings, wrap a drop sheet around it, staple it, put everything on it. Like it's just, there's a way, I know we did this actually one of your students, Marie is worked for me and she told me to do this and I was like, Oh, so we did it around acoustic board. And so it also makes an acoustic, like it keeps the noise nice and beautiful and it's a pin board. And it's also a cool DIY project to showcase. For right now, for what I pay, I'm a single mom. We have to think business wise, have to think of my cashflow. I don't think 2 grand a month of my design studio is the best use of my money as a single mom. I need to then go, how about I invest that into 500 a week of stuff to give me more time with my children instead, hire another team member, put her on fire and pay her 500 a week, get a social media manager, give me more time off social. So I have more time with my kids. This right now, this is just in my garage upstairs. I have a 3 bedroom home and and then I just rent out 1 of those rooms. So I just pay very minimal overheads. I try and keep my overheads really minimal. I've tried to keep them under 10 grand a month, but recently with the expansion of my team, they've gone over, but that's okay. Cause my cashflow is allowing for that. So I made sure that there's always money to pay my team. There's always money to feed my kids. I'm very, being very realistic and honest because this is an interior design kind of business podcast. On sharing like this particular part of the journey of for anyone out there, And inspiring interior designer wants to be one already. And it's really important that if somebody has projects, but wants to scale, you always have to remember to keep your overheads as minimal as possible because I've done this so many times where I've scaled and I've done the big overheads and they've gone over the 10 grand market. And I'm just like, oh, my God, that means I need to and get. You just getting more projects and then you start hustling and then it becomes really stressful that hustle energy because you're actually then obliged to deliver so many more projects than you thought. And you've overcommitted and you're like, oh, my God, now I need to go high. And especially if you're on your own, it can be very stressful at the start to scale that fast. It is better to just go, Hey, let's have 3 round 3 projects at a time. Make sure they're really like good income where there's either payment plans, you've got your chunky deposit, and then you've got your payment plans and just work on 3 projects at a time. So that way you're just allocating people in. I'm working on about 5 to 6 now. I've wrapped some up, which is good. So that's why I just have hired a couple of people, but I always like to keep it at that. And I have other revenue streams such as courses. I'm about to launch products. So that way I have and partnerships like ambassador deals. So that way I have reoccurring revenue from other areas as well. Cause I like that. I like to mix it up and not just go all in. Some people do go all in with design the design projects, but I'm very much not I'm not a woman who just wants to trade time for money for the rest of my life. That's not how I see my life. Yeah, and it's building a sustainable business that can have longevity. Like you've got kids, I've got kids, you're thinking about that future piece. So you are like, if I take on too many projects in the, yay for scaling and yay for getting more interest and more people coming to you. But the more you take on, the more you take on, like we already carry the motherload, so you get so. Easily burned out. And then you resent your own business. You don't love it. You haven't actually designed a successful business. You've designed a trap.. I knew clients that neglected, they're not getting the service that they deserve and have paid for. So it's like just, yeah, this is the kind of where I'm at the moment where I've needed a team. Cause I'm getting these big jobs, but it's I want to give them. The big luxury service that they deserve. So I need to make sure that I'm well supported if I want to be able to take on bigger projects. So that's why I try and look at, okay, if this project is under 10 grand, this has to be a virtual design service for me because they can't have Crystal Bailey on site, styling their space, sometimes I turn into a builder. It just depends on what we need to do. I've met Barb. I just have to sometimes if it's okay, this is the vision, but we have no trades on site, but we need to bring this to reality. Let's just get our hands dirty. So it has to be over 10 grand for that. Like I have to charge that. So my in person, like my in person services are around usually 20 K plus. If it's a collaboration, I'll reduce it slightly. I'm working with a woman with a million followers at the moment. I know it's going to bring me more work. So I, and also just more leverage, like leverage is such a great word when we're talking about design business, because how I got a hundred thousand followers was I did get these clients with a million followers or half a million followers gives you leverage because people are then going to find you. We need to get more eyeballs on our offer, which is our service, our products, courses, whatever it is. And how we do that is, yeah, you can go and pay for Facebook ads and you can go great, get your email marketing by doing the leads and stuff. But. You can also go and collaborate with women who will pay you still money, but you're just doing it for a reduced rate fee in exchange for leverage. And this is the part. I feel like most interior designers are missing in their business. I don't see many interior designers actually going out and collaborating with big profile figures, public figures and people. With large scale profiles. I don't know if they do that in exchange. I don't I don't do it for free anymore, but I used to go, this is how I started my business. We're probably just going a bit too far ahead. Organic chats are the best kinds of chats. We don't need a we're up to this. And then that like I have ADHD, so my brain works. Like this, it's a bunch of fireworks. But back to the beginning of building the crystal Bailey brand is prior to that. I had a big company called design twins. And it was, I followed you from back then. I was making products in my kitchen sink and I was just, we were growing this business and scaling it and they became pots. Then they became retail shops because I wanted to really flesh out my love of design, studied interior design 13 years ago, and I never got. Be a designer. So I was like, cool, this is my chance, open the shop. So we had these big shops. Then me and my husband split up and it was quite a nasty divorce. So I walked away from all of that and I just literally started again from scratch, my whole business. I took nothing. And so that was quite a devastating, traumatic time. I guess that's where my vision now is born for helping women design their dreams and healing from trauma and being everything that they're called to be. I don't think after that period in time, like period of time. And that moment in my life, I could just be an interior designer again. I couldn't, that rocked my world, leaving everything. That was my, I thought was my identity as a designer and starting again. It was like that rocked my world too much where I just discovered so much about healing so much about myself, so much about your inner world, your inner beliefs and how they shape your reality that I couldn't just be an interior designer after that. I couldn't. So five years later, I'm actually launching something to help women design their dreams. So whether it's create their dream life, whether it's designing their dream home or learning those skills to be able to become a designer, like I wanted the bigger picture. So that's why that's what I'm doing now. And. Launching now, but I also love taking on beautiful, unique, incredible spaces. I got really clear on the kind of clients I wanted to work with, female entrepreneurs, women supporting women. So they're the kind of women I do attract. And funnily enough, a lot of those now reach out to me because they've seen, I've worked with Lorna Jane and Jane Lu and Lisa Messenger and all those inspiring women said, they know that I specialize in this and. I also specialize in making space spaces feel like holidays, like resort style spaces. So I'm designing resort style homes. So it's I'm putting out there what I want to like, actually bring back in terms of my ideal client to I keep putting that out there, whether it's inspiration or speaking it out. I am very much big on that. Yeah. After design twins, I started this personal brand. I wanted something that nobody could take away from me this time that I didn't have to walk away from. So that's why I chose crystal Bailey. And I just, I didn't even have a name for my studio. Like it was just crystal Bailey and it was okay, this is naturally what it's going to be. There's no name for this studio because. After design twins, I was known as crystal from design twins or design twins, but I wanted to my name to be known now. So I was like this is what I'm doing. And yeah. And then that's when my literally I wanted to work with inspiring women. And my first client was Lorna Jane. Cause I'd built all these relationships from design twins and I'd become friends with Lisa messenger. And she's an inspiring woman with all these contacts. And she was like, I want you to design my office, my husband's office, my mother in law's shop. And she gave me all these jobs. And then she was Lorna's best friend and she said because I was doing so much with her and I was offering her so much value and just helping her, however I could, she just got me that gig with Lorna. And so sometimes it's not necessarily what you know, what you. It's who you know, and that's something I tend to teach a lot of women that do my courses that come onto my mentorships. I'm not, it's, I always say it's not always about what you've studied or like what you've done. It's who you know and who you are because. Clients want to like, know, and trust you. So they want to know that okay, you can execute the project. You've got a fairly good understanding because we can see your work, but I have to work with you for the next three to six months. I want to know that you're a good person. I want to like, know, and trust you. So I think sometimes that's how I've landed a lot of my jobs because I do show up as a real person, clients. No one trusts me and they know that I'm going to be able to execute their vision, but also we're going to work really well together because it is a relationship. It is pretty intimate relationship when you're designing someone's house. You have to know so much about them and I asked them so many questions and literally I've had a client, my client this week, tell me stuff that she hasn't told her family yet because it's part of the design. And so they tell you their most intimate details. Yeah I do think there's this misconception of you just first study, and everyone goes and enrolls into the full year of design school. I know so many people that even a well known public figures that have gone and enrolled into TAFE to study interior design and I was like Baby, you could have just learned that on the job and get some shorts, get some short courses under your belt. Go out and do those six week courses, go out and get as much information as possible. But you really just need to know that client journey and that design journey from start to finish. Okay. How do you do a consult? How do you create mood boards? How do you create concepts? How do you do selections? How do you order things? How, like you need to know that. So no matter what the project is, but then you also need to know that those business skills. So you need to know the client process, but you also need to know how to market yourself, how to make sales, how to have a great website to get trade accounts. It's just no one teaches you all of that I find in design school. So people still come out of that and they're not knowing how to turn it into a thriving business I just had a conversation this morning where and it was inside of a design. Course forum, like learning design and they were saying like, I don't feel prepared because I have my courses, the business side of design. So when you get out of design school, it's okay, now obviously exact same thing. You need to know what to do and watching them back and forth about it's a saturated industry. I don't think I'm going to actually do anything. I think that we're on the same page when it comes to everyone has a home, every person, of course, like there's enough, but like the disappointment of women holding themselves back because it's predominantly women in these courses and it's predominantly their imposter syndrome and their fears and their fear of success, even or they don't have permission at home. They don't feel as though they can reach out and actually. I was that woman in my first marriage when I studied interior design school, 13 years ago, I was this woman. I didn't believe in my dreams. I didn't believe I could be an interior designer. I didn't believe I could charge 50 grand, 70 grand for a job and get paid for it. I didn't know that was even a thing. I didn't know you could make a lot of money in this industry doing this. What I love every day. What's natural to me. I didn't, I thought I was working in a clothing company. Close shop. I was working in a retail shop 13 years ago at JJ's and just jeans and sports girl. And that was my reality because I didn't believe that my dreams were actually achievable. And that's what you think there for someone else. Like you see it and you know that it's like, Oh yeah, there's somebody like crystal Bailey who can charge that. But that's not me. It's she was, you literally a decade ago at that person. I was literally looking up to women like. When I first started Megan Morton and Sabella Court, I ended up having a shop next to Sabella Court. I ended up teaching at Megan Morton's school and becoming one of her teachers. So it was like, the women I looked up to, I was like, Like people and we actually became friends and they all start in the same spot. It's they're not born out of an interior design. They would have had the same experience that I had when I first started. They would have as well. And that goes for anybody in any industry. So it's like, When you look up to someone or you're inspired by someone, remember that they were inspired by someone. They started somewhere as well. And they all had those same doubts, those same fears. And I kid you not, when I had conversations with some of these women who have massive hundreds of retail stores and massive brand names, personal brands, they deep down have scared, like they're scared. And every creative battle. Yeah. Yeah. Low self worth. And so it's we're all humans. We're all people. We all have the exact same thoughts. There was no one born into this earth. We're just positive thoughts, 24 seven. That is not realistic because we're all human. So everybody still has these thoughts, but the people that are successful are the people that push past all those limiting beliefs and those fears, and they don't give up. And they're like, I don't care if there's one follower, one person watching me, one client, no clients. I'm just going to keep meeting up with those builders, meeting up with the real estate agents. I'm going to it's important to have support. Hence why I don't think there's enough support, which is why I love what you're doing. And I don't think it competes with what I'm doing. Cause there's not enough people, there should be 500 courses. Business school, because everyone's business runs differently. Everybody brings past experiences that are different and everybody thinks differently. You can't just have one. You need to find a coach that works for you and draw the best result out of you. There's no competition at all. It's literally just like you're either picking up what they're putting down and then. You've got to run with that because that's going to get a result out of you, or you go over here, like my business coach, your business coach, you choose them for a reason. The reason is that, they connect with you in a way that they're going to get the best out of you and drive a result. Totally. It's why clients connect with designers as well. Cause they, they don't just go to any designer. They want to. Click with the one that they feel most comfortable with. And so I just believe there should be more support for women who want to become designers to learn that. And so I love this. And the reason I brought that up was because a few months ago, I just wanted to get alongside women doing the same thing as me. And so I joined this woman's group and Australian group, and she kicked me out of it because she said I was too overqualified for the group and I would be competition and I was like, that's so sad. I just wanted. Bit mean, but I'm just like, my face is you can't say, cause this is obviously an audio format, but I am shocked because I'm like there isn't. People come to me sometimes and I think, Oh, you're not like starting out. You had 12 years experience, but if you are missing the systems, the processes, there's a point that you need support or community come on in as long as and you're not buying something that's been misrepresented, as long as you're well aware, some of this stuff you might've done other things you might really need. I just want a bunch of cheerleaders. And there's another woman that I love called the design society. And I've just been joining in on all her stuff. And I love it. Cause Lauren's fantastic. She's so lovely. And I was like, how do you have a book and a course and you do this? And like, how do you do a baby? She has a little, I was like, I was so like shocked when I saw she released a book the other day. I was like, but you like. I went to her book launch for the first book she released in the last six months. So she's actually released two in the last six months. I know. I hope you interview her because she's a gun as well. I must reach out to her. I will. She's really lovely. And yeah, it is so important. Things like that. I truly believe if there's somebody who, and I would never use the word overqualified because we're always upskilling and we're always learning and we're always moving forward. I am not overqualified. But if there's somebody there who maybe has an experience, that's going to help someone who hasn't yet. So we talked before about those conversations that are happening on those forums Oh, it's saturated. There's no work. There's nothing. You can breathe inspiration and what is possible into people as well as. Get connection and cheerleading and community and share what you're doing. Ask for feedback, but also be like, Oh, actually that has come up for me when I was building a personal brand or when my first collaboration pitch pack looked a bit like this and you don't actually need results. You could include that. It's helpful. It's a good thing when somebody has got experiences that they can bring. I don't have any systems and processes that are. Super professional. And that's why I joined as well. Cause I was like, I need help with my systems and process the visionary. So I can see the vision of the project. I can land any project. I have that crazy confidence. I can make relationships, but I don't have the systems and processes. I didn't to be able to support. Like the job. And so that's why I like the growth and just streamline it. That it's an identical client experience. Cause if you're entrepreneurial, you can sometimes be like, I'm going to add this packet to this particular job. And then it's like time you're doing, but you're not getting any return. Cause it's not part of the systemized process, but you just liked like a new presentation or add a little thing and we can get a bit. I always liken it to my job at teaching in the framework is like a whole bunch of Mr. Squiggles floating into space. You're just grabbing their legs and pulling them back down all the time. It's every one of us has got that squiggle brain that just wants to float off and do everything. I feel like I need you. Sounds so like systems and logical. Pull it back down. Other side of the brain. Yeah, that's usually why women partner up in interior and make interior design studios as well that are super successful because one person is highly creative and intuitive and sits in their feelings and emotions and relation and the other person can do all the back end systems of processes The, all that stuff that is needed and details, so it's. And creators are totally capable of doing both. They do it, they get it done. They just need help. You just need to know what will be the best. So once I feel like it can sometimes be a really good way to soundboard off somebody maybe who is more like into setting up processes and things and then get something created. Cause it's just not set and forget, but it's create once and then really know how to use it. And when you take on lots of projects, like you mentioned before, on a click and create, you just want to click and then create the project. Yeah. And just have, the system's available to us now, even when I started nearly, five and a half years ago, there was nothing automated. There was nothing. Cool. There was no buttons to click. It was just a lot of I send my carrier pigeon and then you write back to me and then I do this and I'm so excited by what's possible now in terms of what people can just set up when they set up their businesses and then continue on that journey of being like, step one, step two, step three, and it's all nice and fancy. Now it never used to be. So that's really exciting. No that's part I'm actually still working on because even just like project management, like I've was, I was starting to work with programmer this year, but I just found it so overwhelming to use that software that I was like, do I just go back? Cause I've been working in Google drive, which is still I find sometimes my clients just want to see a spreadsheet and a presentation. They don't want it. It just works for your head. It can sometimes be the best result. There is lots of new software, but if you can't dedicate a good month to learning new software, you can sometimes shoot yourself in the foot. And it's also like my clients don't want to learn new software to work with me. So I just find if I. Get them to log in. They're just not going to see it as easily. I could be wrong, but I've just found the good old fashioned Google drive has been working for me with all my projects and Canva with all my temp, my presentation. So if it ain't broke, that's as long as you've got something. I tried to upgrade it. Like I've looked at Hasbro, I've looked at programmer. I've looked at even just like putting everything, I'm about to even put everything into Trello. Cause I think maybe that's this. A step up for me so that way I can go from Google Drive to Trello because it gives you timelines of when things are due and task lists it does help the project a bit more with automation. So that's and it's, I like how visual it is where you can see the project. Drag and drop and you've just got to do this. You can drag and drop and you can see all the mood boards and the concepts and selections and I lay out the project that way. So you can see it come to fruition, like design development to the full design construction. And that's so you can see a room go from design development to the construction finish project. And that's what I'm, I am loving. But yeah, in the past, for the last few years, I've just been Google driving it. And you're going to see a big change when you get into something like Asana Notion, like when you get to learn those programs and it becomes second skin for you. I think you do really notice the time with the client. You're like, Oh, the. The deliverable is more professional. They get to log in. I just really think that it makes you feel better, even if it isn't really that different. Switch to it. Did you, do you have a sign? I'm on Notion. I designed my own dashboard in Notion, a client database, which I do have on my website if anyone wants it, but I basically just, I went through like the onboarding system that I use, so it's my checklists, it's my like you can upload your. Furniture items for procurement and then press one button and it goes into the excel spreadsheet like things. I wanted as a designer So I sat down Yeah, I know I don't talk about that much. I don't know why I'm actually I need this right now. I think it's gonna change my life. It was just something that I went. Okay, what? What's the process flow that I go through? How do I make an editable version? Because you're not all going to be a designer, you're going to want to have like onsite visits. You're going to want to edit and add your own process because otherwise we'd be an army of little oleander and finches. So I was like, it needs to be editable. It needs to be something that like, and that. Technology for me to be able to put the furniture in, put the details in, and then in one click, you can share a URL with the client so they can log in and see all the beautiful pictures. They love it like that. Or you can click a button and it exports into Excel. So you can start playing with the links. You can share all the links. I was so fancy with myself when I did it. I know you must be like the smartest person ever because YouTube university, I just put in a lot of time. I'm a determined person. I knew if I could ask the question, there is an answer out there. I'm a bit like you, but I'm not on the tools. I cannot do any DIY, but I know if I want something and if I can ask the question. There is a possibility that the answer exists. I'm inspired. I'm like, I think this is going to change my life even because I literally been looking for this and I'm like, how do I just get, cause I'm doing so many things. Like at the moment with my business, I'm like, how do I get time back with this daggy system that I've got? And. It is the old fashioned spreadsheet where you're doing procurement, but then when I looked at programmer, I was like, Oh yeah, this looks like it's good, but then how do you even learn this? I have a video tutorial that comes with every purchase. So we'll have to have a chat. I'll have to get you on it and having a look around so I can get your feedback as someone who uses it. We'll be using it a lot with clients as well, because it's something that. It comes in the framework, but I find that my new students, they're not onboarding clients for the first couple of months anyways, as they set up all of their structures for their business, they tend to not be using it with the kind of frequency where I can get that feedback and actually be like, okay we could tweak it this way. And literally need this today. So that's exciting. How cool, see again, like how cool is it? We can learn from each other. Like I love this because there's so much we can learn and grow together. And so that's why I'm so much on collaboration because even when I launch a course to how to start your dream business, it's not just necessarily to redesign. Some women want to open retail shops like I used to have or set a wholesale business or design a product collection and they do not paint some pots. What is that? What even is that? Like you did not paint a pot to be like, it's going to be the design twins, but it can get there. Yeah. This massive company, it was like, just, I had this passion, but I also love marketing. So it was like, and business is all about also your marketing. Marketing for me is my strength, like I can do that and my branding and graphics, it's all my strengths, visual stuff. But yeah, my weakness was always systems and processes. So that's what I usually outsource or partner with or have. But I, for my interior design business, yes, I would love more support with systems because it just makes the whole thing so much faster. It means you can get more projects. You can turn things around and you're charging a client less too, because you're not spending all that time sitting on this and this. And yeah, so I'm like, okay, how can we make this better? You're expanding your team. So when we get good systems and processes in the backend, we can more clearly upscale our staff really quickly because we've got these standard processes. But when we're a bit like. Oh, hang on. There's a post it note around here somewhere. I definitely, I usually just shove it up on this mood board and then it moves over to this board and you actually need to be able to say, imagine if you started your first day at a new job and they were like we have a computer, we don't have a keyboard though, but like you could just knock on it really loud. You feel very who's leading me here. It's really good if you can be, even if you set them together as a team, but if you're giving them the security of saying, guys, within four months, at least we're going to be like every single onboarding client will go through the same sort of system and we'll know where we're up to and what we're doing. And it's just about shopping around and finding the system Trello notion, like that works for your brain. And the one that makes you go. I love that. That's what I want to put in my business. And I think you should try free trials of software. I think people are so scared. I found Notion a bit overwhelming because it's actually too much free reign because of the blank space. I think that stressed me out, the blank space. I need, I love boxes to work in, or I like limitations where you can go. I want to assign it to someone, or I want, I like working within the box. It sounds so weird because my life is so outside the box. But that can be why you crave that stability and structure in processes, because your life isn't about processes. It's about, adventure and getting experiences. Yeah, exactly. So when it comes to systems, it needs to be inside the box. And I think this is good for people who have ADHD. You need the structure in the box. Don't think any business, any process, any structure, anything that we talk about is one size fits all because of all of these nuances. And also because you're designing a success and a business and a dream of your own, not the person next to you, even if you think they're killing it online or I'm sure that you've seen building a personal brand specifically on social media as well, that you see what other people do and it's, and what other people like. They curate obviously only what they want you to see, but it's so important that you adjust. Doing your own thing. Just got to stay in your own lane. At times I just have to remind myself, stay in my own lane, stay in my own lane. Stop looking at everybody else. I think we are really lucky in our industry that it's not a music industry, one day you're hot, the next minute you're not. I'm going to interrupt us there just a minute to remind you all that the framework my online course for emerging interior designers is opening up International Women's Day on March the 8th. Just to allow a few more people in because I've been talking to lots of women in my DMs at the moment who are feeling overwhelmed by the back end processes and everything that's needed in order to make sure that you have Really considered your client experience and the back end, the processes, the systems, the templates, the emails. There is a lot that needs to happen and it can be completely overwhelming. That is something that comes up time and time again. Is just how there's so many things that I want to do that I need to do that I know I need to do. And I just don't know how to break it down into micro tasks and follow the step by step. Transformation from, I want to have a design business that's bringing in clients and has clean processes and I know exactly what to do with it, what to offer, what services I'll offer and what to price them at, everything like that is covered inside of the framework. So, if you're interested, drop over to my DMs over at oleander underscore and underscore binge, DM me the word framework. I'll flick you an email with some further information or follow the link in the show notes. There is longevity in industry. You can build something, you don't just get dropped on it. Yeah, no, there is room for everybody. You've just got to network with more. It just means you're not networking with enough people, with enough trades or suppliers or builders or developers, or, and you're talking to them about what you have to offer and then you're not clear on your services, what you have to offer. Okay I can help you create mood boards for your clients, or I can help you make over your spaces or, and just getting clear enough on how you can help them when you go to those meetings, it's okay how are you going to go and help a builder? Okay, I can help you deck out your, I can take the client and take them off your hands and help you deck out their home and so that they're better to work with they're going to see this vision and this vision. Process. And so this whole process will be so much nicer for everyone. If I take the client and actually show them what the house is going to look like when it's all finished. And so like then the beautiful, and then you can give them a little bit of commission or something in there for them. But at the start, I wouldn't offer that. I would just say, look, I'm going to make your life. So much easier. Wow. Them first then deal like Yeah. I'm gonna work with your client and I'm gonna show them their place from start to finish. I'm gonna deck out their house when it's done. So you'll have this amazing design and style space that you've got as well for all of your marketing afterwards. You can get great photos once you do the handover and see it all styled. Whereas when you've just built the empty shell, it's not enough for all your marketing to get more clients like this way. I'll style it and make it look amazing. So you've got these beautiful high-end projects, so you know, it's about. Talking the talk or if you're going to real estate agents, I can style this place to sell and like do a bit of homework on before you go to the meeting on what you, how you can help them. That's what I'd always take to influencers, how I can help them. You're always on Instagram. your house, but I can make it look amazing. Like we can do a deal where if you spend this amount of dollars, we could get this possible partnership. And it would cost this amount. I'll. Discount my services so we can get content, exchange. And so you what you've called it an influencer pitch, but you could do it for a builder pitch, real estate pitch, you could go to collaborate with brands and say, Hey, let's design a piece of furniture together and call it this X, this, and do a really cool marketing campaign around it. And get our name out there. Like I've got a range of products. I've designed Curtains like for Bunnings. Bunnings store in Australia and I got paid an insane amount of money for that. And this year I've actually created a company and they've become my business partners, the people that got me that deal. And now we're looking at arranging Bunnings again, but I'll have half the company this time. It won't be a collaborator. It'll be my own brand, my own company. That all just started with a, simple, how can we help each other conversation? Yeah. I posted something yesterday or the day before that was just about if you're not prepared to learn the skills of sales and marketing, go work for someone else. I said, what I said, and I know it sounds mean, but the amount of people I talked to I get that it takes time and an effort to get comfortable putting your face on camera and doing things like that, but there are things that you can do without that. Lots of things that you can do for your business to grow and learn and to move forward towards being able to communicate what you do just as you said all sorts of ways you can pitch yourself without being in Instagram stories. People think it's just the one way they're not comfortable with, like a real. And it's don't do one. You on Instagram stories. That is actually, sometimes it like can hinder you because I find my, my clients are watching me on my stories thinking that's all I've done all day. I'm like, no, I've worked on you. I've been working on your project. Trust me. This little minute at the beach. So it's your home and it's your floor plan and it's your things and it's still in iteration and ideas. So I didn't think it was really appropriate to show it to a hundred thousand people right now. No, but they think if you've been at the beach for five minutes on Instagram. And that you've been at the beach all day and then you haven't been working on the project. So forget about scheduling and forget about I had one of my students ask me if I honestly wear like five outfits a day. It's no, I bulk create my marketing. I'm in this shirt and then I'm in front of the same things. I'm in a dress and then it's hot and it's cold. It's no, I just batch when I'm feeling creative in different times. And then I. Bill it out over the month. Cause the messaging I'm talking to the person I know I'm talking to the messaging doesn't change. And yeah, it's interesting. Cause someone could see that and be like, why aren't you doing what I thought you were doing? It's I'm not even there. That was scheduled. Oh my gosh. That's so funny. Isn't it? I didn't think about the outfit. So my continuity, I'd be fired on set for continuity. If I were making a movie, apparently I'm popping up everywhere. Oh, my gosh. No, seriously, in all honesty, I was like, when it came to what I share on my Instagram, I, if I was more professional, I'd probably just be an interior designer and just have interior design jobs. I'd just have like photoshoots, like high res images instead of the reality, which is that. It's really relatable that raw conversation, that, that ability to show up, you're expecting women to show up for you in your course, you're expecting them to be vulnerable with you and, talk to you about their dreams and what they want to do. I don't think you can ask for that if you won't give it. And I think it's amazing that you're actually able to show up and say, I watched a story the other day where you were addressing some online bullying and trolling and things. And I think not sharing that is. I shouldn't say it's irresponsible, but it's it really opens up so that people can feel like if I've had one day where someone's made me feel really crap on social media, I now know I'm not alone because I cried to my husband and I was like, I think I'll shut my whole business down because somebody told me that I looked fun. Some, we all get it. People are horrible online. But seeing you share things like that, I think that's really, again. It's almost I want to say like reverse inspirational, but it's inspirational with the wrong kind of topic. It's just we don't want to like, yeah, it's like everything in our life is really about how we're reacting and responding to everything, whether it's negative or positive, whether it's good and bad, how are we reacting and responding to even when we land a job are we excited? Are we grateful? Are we like, are we elevated that feeling or is it, yeah. Oh, and how are we responding to, cause I know so many people like respond so bad to negativity where they just go. Straight to the reaction of I'll shut everything down. I'll burrow in a hole and never see them again. Burrow in a hole. Like I literally, yesterday I said to, I was crying yesterday all day. And I just said, I just want to run away to Bali. I don't want to do this. There's too much responsibility. I don't want to do everything. And cause who looks after me? I'm a single mom running these businesses and kids and running a household. It's who looks after me? I did just go to the beach, have to prioritize looking after myself. And I went. I've got this and I called my girlfriend who's a healer. She did a healing session with me, which was really beautiful and it just reminded me, it just brought me back, to myself and reminded me that everything's going to be okay and just reset me. So today I'm good because if you're not prioritizing as well. Your well being and your inner self, like you, you are going to fall apart, despite what is happening. You aren't going to overreact. You aren't going to go. Yeah. When you're stressed as well, it's like when you're sick and you don't have any tolerance to stuff and you're crying over like a broken straw and you're like, this is not normal. I must be getting on, yourself. And that can happen a lot with business owners. Cause we can be at that precipice a lot because of the amount of stress periods. Sometimes your periods, it's sometimes the stress of the workload, you've got all the weight on your shoulders, like what are you carrying? And three people that I call people when I'm stressed, some people deal with it differently. They go into it, bury themselves. I call everyone in my phone book, I'm not okay. And so I it's a great way to handle things because the problem shared is a problem halved. You can at least. It feels better, right? I wanted advice. Yeah. So I called the people that I need their advice and I said, what would you do? And they, all of them said the same thing, which I love. They just said, write down everything that's on your plate right now. That's stressing you down. Write it down. And then have a look at it and think, is it such a, is it so much like, how can we get support with this? How can we take this off our plate or how can what's really important right now out of all of those things like what's the most important thing because everything could be urgent everything could be asked for and needed by today. And emails are just everybody else's agenda so they add to your stress but it's like actually my list is my list. I know then there's the stuff mom was like the dog needs to get de sex the car needs to be registered like it was my son needs. Something from the shop and it was like, there was a whole, I could just be honestly, sometimes I could just use to be a stay at home mom if I wasn't financially having to support her cause the workload is so big, are so much more than just mothers. And you're so much better mom. When you're able to feed that part of you that has ambition and that would love to feel validation from clients that loved the work like that stuff matters. There's talk about the correlation between like design and motherhood and those sorts of things. I use this a lot. And again, with the crying in my framework, when the students get to a point and I liken it to childbirth transition, you get to a point where you want to leave and burn it down and you're crying on the shower floor and you don't think any clients are coming. That's when you're about to meet your person, right? The baby's almost like that. It's you are going to. Feel that same level of growth as mattresses, because it is the same thing to start a business in terms of all this learning all at once. And it can just feel so out of reach. You work really hard. You don't get instant validation. Like I don't care, yes, you can scale and grow really quickly, but I don't feel like you walk. In this example, straight out of design school, register the business name. And all of a sudden people start telling you how amazing it is. Like it takes some effort. All of a sudden, you get your dream job, then you can't execute the process. So sometimes I don't think it's a thing to just go and land the big job straight out because you're still learning the process. You're still like understanding how it's all got to go. And when the cart goes before the horse, that's when I get. Frantic phone calls, which are just like, I know it's in the, I know it's in the course. I know it's a bit later on, but can we quickly set my process services pricing? I'm going to need all of the documents. I'm like, babe, that's the whole course. And it's 12 months. I know you need it now because you've got a client, but maybe you need to think about whether you really want to say yes to that, or you want to park it, or you want to say yes in a reduced capacity, or you give them a reduced pricing and promise to, they need to like. In exchange for testimonials, images, and practicing your end to end process on them so that they go easy on you when mistakes happen, because they probably will, yeah I'm actually just like Googling and I'm like, I really love that. You're just, your SEO is so great online. I think it's amazing because we're not even, my SEO is that good. So I think it's such a credit to you and your business, how you've set up yourself to be even online. This like a, I'm just only getting to that process of having a good website, but it's I love that you've, yeah, you've really, yeah you live out what you say, you're teaching women about interior design, like setting their business up and your business is so great online. So yeah, I think that's a website. It's getting a whole over, but the SEO stays the same, cause we use the same URL. So the stuff we've built over five years, like that stuff definitely is yeah, but even just mine, like I've done so many things, but it hasn't appeared on it's like on Google SEO and that's what I'm at the point this year is I've, I'm hiring a team to get more online, to get more across Facebook and Pinterest and LinkedIn and YouTube and So nice to have a social media marketing manager that can come in and knows your focus. Focus is SEO. So then they're, everything they're doing is keyword rich and optimized and they actually understand. And you don't have to like, cause there's just so much for us to think of all at once, isn't it? I know totally. And yeah, I actually, I'm just on your website now. Cause I'm like, I haven't been on your website. Let's not audit that. Cause it's in. Like it almost needs to have one of those what is it like in construction? Cause it's something that started one way. Cause my business had a big pivot halfway through. And so everything is still parked on the site and it's currently briefed into my designer. And it's like in the process, my copyright is off doing her thing. And I'm loving I'm really excited about the new website. It doesn't change anything, but websites, it's important that your website does heavy lifting. Cause I do a lot of work for marketing to drive traffic to that website. And if it doesn't Perform for you the way you wished it would, then that's when you really need to be working on a rebrand re energizing it and making sure it's modern and it's up to date with what you're offering. Yeah, no, this is amazing. I didn't even know you've got all of this, like the source master list and yeah, this is so great. There's lots and lots of resources there for interior designers. If you are listening and you're a designer, there's a whole page of free resources and there's some paid stuff too, that are just tools and, process systems that you can use to improve your business and move faster, which is always nice. Take on more clients and do less system building. Yeah, exactly. I think honestly, the that you can never have enough like knowledge, and upgrade to different routes. Cause I've always just been focused on improving. So I bought some stuff last week to improve every year. I try and improve all my systems and I bought some stuff online to get, okay. I'm going to get a new welcome kid. I'm going to do a new mood board. And I try and improve it every year. Because I know there's always better ways to work. So you find you just get bored too. Like I'm exactly the same. I have the welcome packs, for example. And then like annually I will change the look and feel of them and tweet the text and make sure they don't say like in 2023, this is on trade. Like you always making sure everything's up to date. Cause it's an awful client experience. If they get something that references last year or another time, but I just feel as a creative too, sometimes it's nice to breathe new energy and you feel like you're using the 2024 welcome pack. And so that feels good. Cause you just I know it's all up to date and tidy and it reflects me how I like it too. Yeah, no, this is great. Do you sell also your I'll talk to you afterwards, but yeah, like that one, you just said the template, from the client database that's on there. It's I think it should be up the top and. I love how we're talking about your website while you're interviewing me on a podcast. I know, of course, because marketing, I could, I literally, I'm designing this resort style farmhouse. And I was weighing over my head when I said yes to it. But there is over 40 spaces. There's a bowling alley, a cinema room, a whiskey bar, a secret room, wellness room. There's so much. Like it is a studio McGee looking house on steroids. It's a modern industrial farmhouse in Sydney. And I know that this is my biggest project to date. And I know that once I have this project available, that people are going to want me for more of those projects. So I want to make sure this year that all my systems and processes are good. So that way I have an interior design studio that can take on those kinds of projects. How funny are the four, like when you first hear these. Briefs because I had a US client and they sent their floor plan through and it had a hairdressing salon in there. It had those sorts of things that you're like, wow, the really stretching the imagination of what like the. Yeah, 12 car garage. And, there's sorts of things that I'm like, again, I live in a very modest three bedroom house. I am not, that's not really my world. That doesn't mean I don't want to serve as that kind of client, but it's just like the first time you hear the brief and hear the idea, it's such an exciting time in your business and like you say, Just say yes, just get it done. Like you can do it. It's just finding a way to do it. So it's yeah, more. I think at the end/of the day, like the number one thing I just literally communicate with my client. Then the communication with your clients is like the biggest thing. Cause there's so nervous and stress the whole time. This is a two year project. So I've been working on it for one year, just in concept development, design development, but now it's design construction this year. So it's yeah, we've got to get all the selections, all the ordering, all the, and so you just have to communicate with them the whole time to keep them at bay because it is yeah, just updating your clients every week or just reassuring them that you've got this and that they can trust you because sometimes they get really nervous and they're like, Oh, where is my stuff? And this was such a big I love that. We have a progress report. So it's like on a Friday you go and you send out where you're at and then you can end like they can go into the weekend. Relax. They know what you're doing. And then you are hitting some anticipated questions on the head over delivering from a comms perspective. But if you put your hat on from the clients. If that was your house and you were building this and you're trusting it to one person and that person you haven't spoken to in 10 days, you're probably going to feel a bit nervous. So it's nice to think like the client all the time and be like, what would I really want? I don't want, I don't want daily updates. I don't want you to be like, it's 850 and I'm going to put my shoes on. But I do want to know you're working. The thing is as well, you know what it is too. It's that yeah, they're paying for that service. But remember I said at the start, it's best to not take on too many projects. Like just if you have two to three at a time, you can give them that service. And that's been the problem for me is that I haven't been able to give them the service that they deserve because I've just been knee deep in getting all these projects and doing it. And all these projects are under 10, 000 and they're coming in dribs and drabs, not to say that's mine now. But this can happen if you're taking on just 5, 000 projects, but the energy that's going out is worth 20. And then they're calling you every day to ask you for things every day, but they've only paid you five grand. I had a client that I was working with over three months and she paid me, I think, 6, 000 for a design. She was messaging me, calling me every day and wanting me to redesign and doing this, and this was like not long ago and I just went. She paid me again. And I went back, I was like, Oh my gosh I feel like that was 50 grand of my energy. And there's a whole bunch of e designers out there being like, okay, I charge 199 and it takes me eight weeks. And it's such a good message. So think about the value that you bring and like charge for your worth, not what they can afford. I think we put our pricing into this bracket where we're like, I don't know, because it's online. I don't want to ask too much. Confidence thing. Yeah, deliver something that's so fantastic that you can add the zeros without conscience because it's not about ripping anyone up every single you're capable of delivering this outcome for every single one of these people and they should line up to do to. Get to work with you. And if your processes are clear, you're like, look, I don't, you get one round of revisions or you get one single revision. Let's chat about it. Or you can buy more, like you've got to build. And again, back to your revenue streams. If that's what that looks like, I see too many people getting a job and then they're like, Oh, can you help me with the like just. Planning out the shelving or just a few finishing touches and they downplay what that actually means, like actually setting up a whole bunch of open shelving and using the negative space and buying all those decor pieces, and they're going, okay, I'll just do that inside of the e-sign. I'm like. Oh no, that's a whole nother add on package that you can have on your website. And if you want to buy it, I don't particularly love doing it. So it sits at four figures and you can have it. But if you have it, then I'm going to feel like maybe it's worth my time to go look at these books and shelving items. And then, or create a prepackage that you can sell. I think something I tend to do, when I'm sewing a purchase, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'll just add that in or I'll add that in. And you're excited about the projects too. Like it's a shared mutual excitement, but we have to always remember in the example of those shelves, if that happens to you once, you can look at what you delivered for that client and package it up into a pre purchasable PDF with the, the procurement list that I have in my database. Click the button and they can see where to shop at all. And then just sell that and don't do the work the next time. I feel like people need to be really clever and I see this with you all the time, really clever ways to build alternative revenue streams based on things that you can quickly pull together things you can already do things that you need to boost your income. Just how can I do this? You know what? I want to go away. I'm happy to do a retreat. I love teaching people. I love sharing stories. Let's do that. And that's just, it's that simple. It's not put it on the business plan for year three and overcomplicate it. It's sometimes just throw it out and work it out. Yeah. I think the thing, not that I'm saying you did that, but I'm just saying that's a really good way to always think creatively. Yeah. Yeah. Because people don't think of, Oh, there's other ways to diversify my income. We'll look at COVID. I was thriving, but everybody was surviving because they had to shut down their businesses. And I was like working already virtually. I had it was a nice time to be an e designer because all the systems were set up and it was like, here we go. Exactly. I made 20 grand off launching a mat, like course masterclass online. So it was like, I just found ways to diversify. I was already doing it. So I just accelerated that during that time. Cause everyone was locked in their home and they wanted support anyway with it. So they were all ears and eyes on me at the time. So I really loved that time of our life because everyone was inside their house. But looking for those opportunities is really. Like something you really have to think about. I think a lot of things get passed by because people are not watching what's happening around, or they've got their mind on the one bread and butter piece of their business, but it's I just sent out, Oh, I'm sending out an email. But by the time this goes live, it'll be long, long delivered. Tomorrow and one of the ideas in there is just contact somebody like. Name three people, that work at big corporations, HSBC, SEEK, a company, go to them with a one page PDF and say, you send this out on Friday afternoon via HR. People have to book by Monday, but anyone with who uses the word SEEK gets 40 percent off. And I just need three clients because I've got no clients because I'm starting out. And all of a sudden you've got who wasn't bored out of their brain, corporate Friday afternoon, waiting for some email with a fancy picture of an interior design to arrive in my inbox. Way better than some data entry spreadsheet on a Friday. Oh my gosh, I love your brain. I love how it works. Cause this is how mine works too with marketing. It's so much more because I came from marketing background too. And I love marketing. And I just think it's just about, if you want a client, you can totally have one within 24 hours, but you just have to think really creatively about how you, what can you offer. A massive discount because you're just starting out or, and just do it for three, put some conditions on it. So you're not doing that offer until mid next year, but it, that will make you feel like, Oh my gosh, I have the language of clients. I'm working with three clients at the moment. Then when you're showing up, you're in that energy. You can just make up a client. Cause that's what you do when you studying, you've got fake clients that you get as assignments. Just do that. In real life after you finish and it works. I was talking the other day about one of the girls in my marketing workshop saying to me, Oh, this girl is not even graduated and she's got a different client every day. And I was like, babe, she's just talking about client brief is the overarching term to showcase what she could do. There's no way she's working with clients at that budget, different clients and different mood boards every single day before she's graduated, but she's just using marketing to. Put out into the universe what she wants to bring back. So she's saying, yeah, and it's exactly right. I was like, she's not doing anything wrong, but like other designers may be thinking, Oh, you've got all these projects. It's it's not. I'm all about it. I'm all about a woman going for it. So there, and there would never be any judgment for me. Cause I'm just like, I love seeing a woman just going for it. Get it, because there is so much room for everybody to build their brand, to get it and clients to get, everyone needs help with their home. And there's different services available. I don't know where I came up and why, but maybe I do have this similar kind of brain when it comes to creativity, that everything is an opportunity to like, everything is an opportunity. Every problem has a solution and that solution could be a massive business. That's why air tasker is how big it is and Uber and. Because there was a problem that someone had a solution for. So yeah, I always think big. It's all about the dream, isn't it? Don't ever go small and don't ever sell yourself short because something as stupid as add on linen extenders could be the next big thing. You just don't know. I always wanted to be the billionaire that became billionaire off like buttons or something like this. Like a plastic clip for your chips or something. Can you like, Oh, that's easy. Yeah, I'm sure it's not easy. I have to wind it up there. I wish I didn't, but I have another Client who's dialing in say, okay, I have to go as well. I haven't even started my day's work. So it's living the dream. I love chatting. Thank you, Crystal. Thanks for joining me. I feel like this is going to need a part two at some point, so I will reach out. I would love that. Thank you so much for having me on. I hope it's helped everyone that's listening on here to have some sort of insider knowledge, whatever it may be from today's episode. Beautiful. And if you want to check out Crystal and everything that she's doing and her upcoming causes and all of the rest, I will pop it all in the show notes. I hope you enjoyed that chat and got as much out of it as I did. I loved hearing about Crystal's journey and all of the different things that she's been able to experience and her approach to collaborations and partnerships and personal promotion. It's just a really great to listen to somebody so confidently present themselves and learn what that could look like for you in your design business, no matter where you're at. Just thinking about, okay, well, how do I leverage all of these different opportunities and really look to make sure that they are all aligning with my business goals and just try heaps of new things and see what amazing adventures can await for you. So I have linked all of Crystal's details into the show notes. If you want to follow her, I'll go check her out. Please do so. And until next week's solo episode, I cannot wait to meet new students in the framework this weekend and I am looking forward to another epic interview I have for you next Thursday. Next Thursday I will be chatting with Belinda, the valuer. Some of you may know her and she's going to talk all things property with us. So until then, have a great week. That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.