Belinda the Valuer

In this episode I'm chatting with Belinda Botzolis -  renowned property valuer and social media standout, exploring the impact of interior design on property valuation, the art of content creation for professional services, and strategic advice on property investments. 

Belinda shares her expert insights on whether renovations truly add value, the importance of market research, and how interior designers can enhance their business visibility through engaging content. An enlightening conversation filled with actionable tips for both budding and experienced interior designers looking to make informed decisions in property investment and leverage social media to boost their business

Meet Belinda here https://www.instagram.com/belinda.the.valuer

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Transcript

0:12

Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you could expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success. You are going to love today's conversation. When I shared on my stories that I was talking to a property valuer, I had so many people drop into my DMs to say, Oh my gosh, please tell me you're talking to Belinda the valuer. You two, that would be an amazing conversation. And I am pleased to say that is the exact conversation that has just taken place and I thoroughly enjoyed it. So I'm joined today by Belinda Bezolos and she is the person behind the Instagram and TikTok account, Belinda. Dot the dot valuer. If you may have just seen her advice around interest rates and investment properties, and what is actually a good decision for return on investment in your properties, as you've been scrolling through any of these social media platforms, I talked to Belinda today, a little bit about interior design's role in recovering. Money for property sale and so on but I also really went deep on the content side of things because I It's unusual that we see people in professional services such as insurance or finances So front and center and in front of camera And showing up and creating content. So I think you're really going to love the insights that she had for us around that and how we do that better in our interior design businesses, as well as all of the generous knowledge she shared around property investments, values, whether to build, renovate, invest, and how to get that advice and how to really Research the market and understand it a little bit more. So I'll let Belinda tell you all about it without further ado. This is my conversation with Belinda, the valuer.

rhiannon: 2:16

Hello Belinda. Thank you for joining me. Oh,

belinda: 2:19

thanks for having me. I am excited to be here. I haven't done a podcast with an interior designer before, so I'm really excited to answer all your

rhiannon: 2:27

questions. Oh, I think we've got such a good, like adjacent sort of industry adjacency, if that's a word. And There's a lot of questions that I definitely will have for you. And I've seen you definitely aware of, and dip into that world as well with interior designers and probably work quite closely. I won't be the first one to ask you a bunch of questions. I'm sure. No,

belinda: 2:48

but I I love getting it's almost like you've got different sides of the same coin. So I look at things through a lens on one side of the coin, and then you might look at things through a different lens on the other side of the coin, but The coin being property, yeah. I don't know.

rhiannon: 3:06

And the ultimate goal generally is for the homeowner or seller or the person like that's the same, crossover for a potential client. They need us for different things, but we both have the same goal and it's quite difficult when we don't have the same education. So the things that we're taught to focus on functionality and form and aesthetic and all those sorts of things. And then you have the ability to come in and say, that looks great. What does it do to the sale or the property price? Not a lot.

belinda: 3:33

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a delicate rope to cross because you have to be very mindful that a home is a very personal thing and, people are entitled to live. And design their homes, however, which way they want. And I never feel like I will tell anybody how to live or design their home. But I feel if you're asking for my opinion on whether it adds value or not, I can be a little bit brutal and I'm very, I'm delicately brutal. I guess if that makes sense, I bring the realism. Yeah. Yeah. And that's your home. You'd live in it. You love it. You do what you want, but does it add value? Maybe not, but just so you're aware, if you still love it, then go for

rhiannon: 4:14

it. And do many people do that? Cause in my experience, it's you can give a lot of advice, but if somebody is set in their mind that they want that marble, they want it everywhere and they don't care, they just go ahead and do it.

belinda: 4:26

Yeah, I try to always bring it back to education and rather than just say, yes, it will add value or no, it won't. I always come back to perhaps showing them some comparable sales, explaining the demographic of the area, explaining why it won't add value rather than, It do it. So I'd like to always bring it right back to the core reason explain that to them so they completely understand. And then they'll get to the point where they're like yeah, okay. All right. I see where you're coming from, but I still want it. I'm

rhiannon: 4:55

like, okay. All right, go for it. Yeah. I do love the education piece because I hear this question a lot, or there's like a mindset. I don't know if it's like born of the seventies or eighties, but I get a lot of clients that are just stuck in that we're about to sell. So neutral carpets, lick of paint, do this thing. And they're not actually evolving to a way where they're getting, updated advice about what are the right things to do to put your property on the market. That's get a return on investment, like just doing it because you think it will look better. If the client, if the new property owner is going to come in and rip it all out again. Yeah. Is that something to consider? I think there's a lot of exceptions there.

belinda: 5:35

Really great question and really like loaded question because it's like, it sounds so cliche. It depends. Sometimes what you find is, especially in the market at the moment, Rhiannon, what we're finding is there's a bit of a, Disparity between homes that are beautifully presented ready to go move in doesn't necessarily have to be absolutely brand new, but I'm talking about moving ready homes, even if they've got a kitchen and bathroom that isn't necessarily, perfect. It's at least nice enough to move in. And then those times like, but we'll live in it for five years, 10 years, and then we'll renovate. Yeah. A lot of those homes are selling quite well. And then you have a bit of a gap of the homes that are in what I call that kind of very much a limbo stage where you find that they're almost not good enough. To be new, but not old enough to want to renovate and they're the ones that struggle, I think. So if they're really old, like Nan and Pop have been in there since the 50s, it's almost like you're doing it in vain unless you do a major reno. If you're just going to replace the shaggy, the. Shaggy carpet with regular carpet or, the vinyl with timber floorboards, you're almost wasting your time. It's let it be, just let it be old and leave it. But it's those homes that are the in between that's where you get the biggest market, resistance. And in there you find that people are either going to not for me and walk away. And that's where you benefit from the most uplift. Because you get the best market response. They're like, Oh, it's not that bad. I can live in it for a couple of years and then renovate because you put the time and energy to bring it up to what the market expects for a decent home rather than too hard basket.

rhiannon: 7:25

Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And do you think that there's, reactions around property pricing and where the markets at the moment and the shifts that we've seen affecting those sorts of properties, because, maybe people going in for the first time or without a lot of equity, they don't have the money to do that renovation or that it's almost like I've got the ability to buy this, but I couldn't live in this for the time that it will take for us to bank up enough to do that total renovation piece.

belinda: 7:51

Yeah what I find is property prices are so high right now, we've made a full recovery in the market. So we peaked in that 2022 and then with the rise in interest rates, we had a little bit of a dip in the market. But absolutely bucking the trend, the interest rates kept increasing and then the market's gone. Okay. There's nothing good on because of the lack of stock of supply yet. And so the market's come full swing again. So it's just as expensive to buy now as it was in the peak of the market in 22. And what I found is people are putting all their eggs in the one basket, meaning all their funds to buy the home. And they're not leaving much as a contingency for renovation. It's I could have bought this home for, 900, 000 a year ago. It's now a million dollars. My budget max all in is a million. I have nothing left for a reno. So I need to just get a home that I can live in and then in 3 to 5 years or whatever I can save and then do the renovations. So that's where those homes that need work and need a bit of renovation are struggling because everyone's all in at the moment. No one's got 50, 000 to spend on reno unless they do, and that market is thinning out really

rhiannon: 9:11

quickly. It is. And it's interesting because it's like you're at the top of the funnel and then we're at the bits where we're not getting that full service renovation jobs because not as many people are able to do that because they're sitting in that home, as you say, for three to five years to just Breathe, this is all we could borrow. This is where the banks are at being quite conservative. So we've just have to sit here, live here. For interior designers listening out there, just hold on. Things will swing back around and all these people will need to get their houses done when they can.

belinda: 9:40

Yeah. And I find too, that they'll do the absolute bare minimum. That saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I feel that's what they would be doing as well. So if it's not broken, they'll just live in it. Yeah. They might give it a coat of paint before they move in. I don't think they'll get it done professionally. It might just be a couple of mates, a box of beers and pizzas. And Hey guys, do you want to just help me paint the house? It doesn't need to, yeah. Just a quick, a very quick update. Not so much a Renault. Yeah,

rhiannon: 10:08

and is there any, actually, I'm not going to say is there any, I'm 100 percent certain I know the answer to this question. What misconceptions do interior designers have about what adds value to property? Obviously we get asked it all the time, but then you are doing actual valuing. Yeah. What do you think we misrepresent or don't really

belinda: 10:25

understand? I think you guys have a hard job because your job isn't to determine whether it adds value or not. Your job is to deliver to the client what they ask for. Okay, so if a client comes in and they have this like pipe dream of, perfect time and. Your job is to deliver that to them and not really understand if it's over capitalizing because you're like, they've come to me and they're showing me their beautiful Pinterest photos and a few, magazine shots of something, or, Instagram screenshots and all that, and I'm going to deliver what they want. And that's where it can get a little tricky because for instance, you could have a pretty modest family home out in the. Let's say the Western suburbs, nothing wrong with the Western suburbs, but we've talked about the price point and the demographics versus having you're in Melbourne. So let's say you have a home in the beautiful Bayside area. Okay. Very different price point. Very different expectation. Let's say their budget was relatively the same. You'll very easily be able to overcapitalize perhaps in the home in the Western suburbs because the market won't absorb it. That renovation as well as the area in the Bayside suburbs. That's because they both have the same idea of what they want. They want the same design. And again, this is where you can get unstuck. They say, oh, I didn't expect it to cost so much, but you said, this is what you showed me and you try and advise them on slightly cheaper options, but it's so easy to have start off. With a quite a modest budget and a modest design. And then you can very quickly go, Oh, I'll just upgrade this. And then I'll just upgrade this and I'll just upgrade this. And then all of a sudden it's like you're going to the supermarket and you just hear cha ching, the cash register keeps going up. And again, it's not really your fault or your job to reel them in and say, no, do not do this because it won't add value. It's your job to perhaps. Guide them, but it's the client's decision ultimately at the end of the day. And your job is to satisfy the client and then deliver on what they've asked.

rhiannon: 12:39

Yeah, for sure. Do you see this much? I imagine that you do, but that the challenge with that we mentioned before, the intimacy of working in somebody's home, but like the emotional connection in my mind, I always feel if a property value goes to a property and the homeowner is home, then they're going to be like showing you their Spanish tiles and the things that they've done. That really, I like, you're probably in there with a, Different view of what you need to see in order to make your professional opinion. But is that the case that the homeowners are often trying to point you in the direction of things that they believe bring more value

belinda: 13:14

to the property? It's one of those things, like I'll go through someone's home and I always feel I feel like there should be a little guidebook. Cause I feel like they don't know what to do. It was funny. I was listening to another podcast that I did and I said something and I listened to it and I was like, that's. Why would I say that? But it was funny and I'll repeat it. It's pe the value knocks on the door and it's hi, I'm the value. And people almost don't know what to do. They're like, do I bow, do I curtsy? Do I like ask them for a glass of water? Do I follow them around? Do I leave them alone? Yeah. I don't know, but I really need this value to be impressed with my home because I, I need to draw equity or I need to sell, I need to get money.'cause what people don't realize is it's the value or that's. Stopping you from getting money from the bank. It's like your house, the bank and the value on the only way to get money out of the bank, be it through equity release or to buy another home to get money out of the bank, you need to get the value up.

rhiannon: 14:08

So bring the glass of water. You're saying

belinda: 14:10

yeah. I think we honestly absolutely don't mind to have a chat. We don't voluntarily chat. So if you don't talk to us, we won't talk to you because we just want to get in and get out and do our job, right? It's your home guys. I might, I sometimes make a joke about people following us around. Did your home do it? Don't feel intimidated, show us all your features. Some things honestly don't really like somebody will go. Oh, I just put in that ceiling fan last week and they'll make a big deal. And they'll show me how there's a dimmer light on it. And it's got three speeds. I'm like, that's cool. But it does nothing for the overall market value. But that's fine. It's your home. If you have enough, Features that you want to point out especially if you have something that's a little not obvious. So you've got perhaps a room that's a little bit concealed. You have an ensuite through the walk in robe. That's a bit, blink and you might miss it. Solar panels, underfloor heating, bring it all up to the attention of the valuer. Talk to them about your stone or, a lot of that stuff. As long as it collectively comes together and looks lovely a lot of the market when they go to buy, they don't really care too much about where it was sourced from, yes, in some of the higher end homes or the more affluent areas they care. But a lot of the time, if we just talk in the average home in Australia, the average buyer, they just want to say it was done. It looks like it was done in quality where it was sourced is really of no. Huge consideration, but feel free to tell the value,

rhiannon: 15:43

show us everything. I want to ask about flipping for profit or cosmetic flips that people, it used to be obviously not obviously, but it definitely was something that was much more profitable, much more of a yes, as an investment, absolutely. If you can do it smart, get it out there. Have you seen a change in that? Because I feel as though I don't see as many people doing it as well. There was a peak of that. Or are you still seeing a lot of people getting investment properties and actually getting in there and doing that flip and making it work for them?

belinda: 16:15

I'm seeing flips work really well when there is, so when you think about market value We'll go back to the Western Suburbs and the Bayside Council. So if you go into the Western Suburbs, or Suburbia, okay, I'm not picking on the West, West is great, West is best. But if we just talk about general Suburbia you might get a home, let's say, really entry level basic home at 800, and then a high end level home at 1. 2, maybe 1. 3. The gap between that isn't, there's only like 400, 000 between eight and 1. 2, it's like 400, 000. And if you put in 200 for a major reno, you really have another 200 to gain to make it the top end. So your profit margin really thins out because the cost of construction is eating into your profit margin. The thing is, if we take it to a more affluent area, you might have an entry level home at 1. 8, but the top end is 3 million. So your gain is so much more, but the cost of construction is exactly the same. Do you understand? So your 200, 000 investment on the Reno could mean a. Six or 700, 000 profit ad, and then your profit margin is so much bigger. So I think if I'm honest, I'm not seeing as many lower end homes having that flip because there's no meat left in the project cause cost of construction. High end homes. I'm seeing a really interesting flip. Yeah. mentality where they buy it, but they spend a lot, but they make a lot. All I say to that is if you are renovating, be mindful of your overall profit margin. Because once you take out all your agent fees, if you have to pay capital gains tax, what's left isn't much. And construction costs can blow out, which really eats into your profits. So don't think of it as a property. Think of it as or don't think of it as Yeah. Don't think of it as as a property. Think of it as like a piggy bank collecting money and taking money out because that's what your main focus should be.

rhiannon: 18:35

You really have to operate it like a business, don't you? Because if you're getting in there and you're not going to live in there, that's really interesting because I think a lot of people are not factoring that in. Big increase post COVID of construction costs and materials and trades. And, I think people probably at surface level, certainly before they've crunched the numbers and spoken to somebody, they're probably just a bit like, Oh, we'd go over there and get one at this cost and we sell it for this more high end.

belinda: 19:02

I'm seeing a lot of now I'm thinking about it. I'm for the homes that are, they'll do a quick, a cheap and nasty reno, the suburbia homes. To put it on the market to sell. I'm seeing it a lot now. I feel like people are just like, let's do a quick Renault. And there's a lot of Renault companies that are doing that to get them prepared for the market. But gee, they're done really cheaply, almost to the point where. On the surface, you like on the photos, when you go through your real estate and domain. com, they look pretty, right? Oh, that's nice. It's renovated. And you see it in person and you look this was done really cheaply. It's

rhiannon: 19:38

renovation paint, not even new tiles, like the old tiles

belinda: 19:42

and. And they'll get, just very cheaply done. It's almost like cheap and nasty where it helps the overall market value. But before I would say maybe a little bit more quality in the Renault's where now, because it's eating into their profit margin, they just, it's do your best Silicon the rest. Yeah.

rhiannon: 20:01

When I'm such a believer of Do it once, do it right, always doing that sort of stuff in design. It's really hard to see people be like, we could probably get away with this if we just hope that it doesn't blow over in the wind, yeah,

belinda: 20:15

and take a photo. They'll put Band Aid and then paint over it and that'll do as long as it holds for auction day. We're right,

rhiannon: 20:21

but it's such a big problem for the new homeowner because you're then inheriting that issue when things are done incorrectly to begin with it just snowballs, which is

belinda: 20:29

disappointing. And I would say the only thing I'd say to that is if you are buying a home that's recently been renovated and newly renovated. They furnish them so beautifully and a lot of people see a relatively newish home with furniture and they forget to really deep down look at the details and the quality of the improvement because overall it looks great, right? But when you really hone in and have a good look, you actually see what you're buying. A lot of the time when the value comes through, the furniture is being removed. So then we have a look and we can actually see the home warts and all. Yeah. Yeah. And we're like, Oh, how did this get that price? Because it's not that great. But when you look back on marketing photos with the furniture and everything, of course it looks perfect. Shout

rhiannon: 21:14

out to our property stylist friends who are listening, doing a good job. You guys

belinda: 21:17

are doing too much of a good job. Yeah. But then those that are listening to this, we'll be able to visualize the home vacant. And I know the couch looks nice and I know they've got the latest Whatever design style furniture, but look beyond it and really look at the property.

rhiannon: 21:34

That's really great advice because I think it's not often done. They do. The reason that property styling and staging works so well is they're selling a dream and you can get really carried away when you walk into it. Yeah. Oh, I can hear our kids on a warm summer night playing in the backyard. And you built this beautiful, emotional story before you've even asked for the extra information. And again, that emotion piece coming into property in general and homes and with. What both of us do, it's always the homeowner is so emotionally connected to the outcomes that.

belinda: 22:06

Yeah. And very rarely, we go to display homes, every open home now is furnished. So very rarely do you get to. Like really experience a home in a, what we call vacant possession. Cause every time we do evaluation, we were technically and professionally trained to literally visualize the home without any furniture, because you can imagine, we see some stunning homes that have pretty basic rental furniture in there, so we've got to be able to look past that and see the home for what it And then we'll see some pretty average homes, but beautifully furnished. And we have to see that for what it is as well. So it goes both ways. So when we do go through a property, I, it's almost like undressing. I was just

rhiannon: 22:54

about to say that you get trained to see it naked and we get trained to see what outfit it could have on it.

belinda: 23:00

Yeah. So that's why we can be a bit brutal. Cause we're like, eh, I don't care. We get people that call, say, oh, you can't come through until. Next Thursday, because the cleaner hasn't had a chance to come through and, make it perfect. And I'm like, honestly, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Unless you've had like a party of 50 and the house is trash the night before I wouldn't worry too much.

rhiannon: 23:21

It's just a case of stepping over the empty bottles and things, isn't it? Because you're still looking at the shell of the home. Correct.

belinda: 23:28

So if you're waiting for the cleaner to come through before the valuer, don't bother. Don't worry.

rhiannon: 23:35

So another thing I'd really love to ask you about is your presence on social media. So content creation is not my go to thought when I think of property valuing or the financial industry or insurance. I never think of those people as, thriving in the content and social media. Sort of world, what on earth drew you to the idea of getting on TikTok and getting

belinda: 24:00

out there? It all started so I started my Instagram before I started TikTok, and I built my home three years ago. Now, when I built my home, like every other person that's listening to this that goes on, if you are following myself and Rhiannon, you've probably stumbled across us because you're either looking to build or to renovate or to invest or something. Something in the property space. And that is exactly why I started my Instagram account because I wanted to get some inspo on my new home built, what trends in kitchen tiles, what are people doing? What's in right now. And as I went through my build journey, I would share, and it's such a great online community. The Insta community because people you'll put a thing on your stories like guys, I need a landscaper. All right. I'm not sure I'm tossing up between this tile and it can put a poll up and you get people's response. And then, people overshare and they'll respond to your, your story saying, Oh, I did this and I did that. And, this is where I found really cheap tile. So it's such a great community that I got to the end of my build and I went right. What do I do now? My home's finished. And I, I started sharing one or two posts about, oh, I, as a valuer, I did this because I thought it, it add value to my home, inexpensive. My home's a, what I would call a project home through Project Builder. But I did so many custom changes to it that it really does feel like a custom home. I think it does. I guess with my years of experience and walking through so many homes and really understanding what adds value that I thought I can probably share that, and say, okay, I did this and I did that and I changed this. And then I found a quite a bit of a response to that. I was like, oh, okay. People they care like they feel like I'm helping and then I would jump on tick tock and I saw an accountant on there. I saw a lawyer. I saw a tax lawyer. I saw quite a few professionals talking. And then, of course, I found a few people talking about investment properties and. But in general, and the thing that most is, I felt like they were the authority on there, and that's where people were going to for information, because TikTok was starting to change from this, 12, 13, 14 year olds dancing to, a I App or a social media platform that shared information that people turn to. We were in that kind of groups of the lockdown. We're all at home, we're all scrolling through social media, and I went, there's a lot of misinformation about property professional knowledge, right? It's all very on the. Surface stuff. And I went, I'm just going to do a couple of videos to share my professional experience. And I started doing some, people want, I did a video for instance I get asked all the time, does the swimming pool add value to your home? Let's explain, and then I would go in and explain why it does or it doesn't, and that one went viral. I think that was one of my first videos that went viral. And then you had a lot of keyboard warriors. No, it doesn't. You're an idiot. What do you know? And then I had a lot of, and added a lot of value to my house. And then they'd start fighting. And I was like TikTok's wild. So I. Would continue there, Rhiannon. And it was just like people would respond to a question. And then I'm like, ah, that's a good one for some content. So then I, does this add value to my home? Does that add value to my home? The value is coming. I'm thinking of investing in this home. I'm about to buy an off the plan. What about NDIS? I'm about to buy my soup. And I'm like, Whoa, I might make a career out of this. The content's coming to you.

rhiannon: 27:40

You don't have to do anything to think about it. That's amazing.

belinda: 27:43

Yeah. And then a year and a half ago, I started working for myself and I moved, I still do valuation work, absolutely. But I moved into advisory because I felt there was a bit of a gap where people just look. I just want to ask you a few questions. I have a floor plan. I have, my interior designers got a whole bunch of stuff before we sign off. Am I wasting my time? Am I over capital? What? Can we just have a chat? I'm like, yep, let's have a chat. And yeah, that's how it just organically evolved. I never went out looking for likes follows. I actually, to the point where I didn't have my name anywhere, I was just the value up because I was so embarrassed. I'm going back to the. Career value is we're so conservative and we just want to be left alone. Like we just want to be behind the computer screen. We don't have our photos on our business cards. We don't have our photos on the side of a bus or on billboards or anything. We're like, just want to get in, do our job and go home. That's it. So yeah,

rhiannon: 28:39

a great story. And I think people underestimate the opportunities, certainly interior designers do with the opportunity on Tik TOK and just exactly how the TOK to, you mentioned like the 14 year olds doing choreographed dances and stuff. And I think a lot of people in my age bracket will just haven't. Seeing that there's been a shift and they still keep thinking that's what's going on over on Tik TOK. And in fact, we have 52 percent of Americans use it as their number one search engine. Correct. So not Google, not anything else. They're like, I need to know a thing. Where do I get my information from? TikTok. They go straight to the TikTok magnifying glass and they type in property value or interior design. So it's really important to think about the opportunities that are available as well as if you are a designer listening along, thinking about, or been tossing around for ages doing paid advertising. They. Return on investment on TikTok is much higher because you get a lot more clicks. You, it's a lot less cost than it is to go through and do your Facebook ads. That's all kind of complicated stuff, but I think there's an opportunity and there's a big slice missing from professionals, as you say. There are, you watch Tim, the lawnmower man, and you watch it will teach you Excel spreadsheets in a fun way. That is a Dry subject, like if I need to know something, I know that there are particular people, I forget her name is like Miss Excel or something, and you go over and they've got a way of explaining it that I now can plug that formula in at my end and I know what's going on. And that's one thing that I really admire about your Instagram and TikTok is that it's accessible to the every person the way that you have presented those little things. It's just oh, I know the RBA doing something. I'm going to go check what Paulina said about that. And just let me know what's happening with my bottom line. I appreciate that. Thank you. I have really loved that. It's very focused on that person who is not your colleagues, who already know those things. It's actually the person who's this is how much my home loan is. This is good. So you're telling me it's 120, not 1200. Thanks. I'm really glad to hear that and I'll be back next month and I'll find out how much more I have to pay. But those sorts of things, I guess when you reflect back on your answer there for anyone else planning their stuff. The great takeaways there was that the content fed itself by listening to your audience. Just what are they interested in? What do they need? Correct. Yeah. Do you have any tips about getting in front of the camera? Because I know that's a huge blocker. You said, you're a shy bug. You'd just rather stay behind the computer screen, but you're not in every movie, like in every real, you are your brand. It's a personal brand. It's not, it's no longer the value. It's Belinda. The value. How'd you get over that? Or did you just Organically fall into it and start doing it.

belinda: 31:22

I so fun fact, I did drama in high school and I was voted most likely to run away with the circus in year 12. Yeah. They called me up on stage. I was like, Oh God, really? So I've always had I've never, I've always felt a little bit comfortable

rhiannon: 31:36

to

belinda: 31:36

yeah. But. In saying that even for somebody that does feel a little bit more confident to, put their face out there, I would say the first one to two months, I was so like, I would, to this day, if I hear my own. Content, it just like nails down the blackboard when I hear my own voice and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so annoying. Why do people keep listening to me? Because we're so critical on ourselves. I would say just keep going. And if your intention is specific to this, I'm going to sound all like Zen right now, if your intention is pure, if your intention really is pure to give advice and to give back to your listeners or your followers, I don't know what we call them now. It comes back to you and it just comes easier. And don't overthink it. Don't polish it up. Don't sit there and make it look perfect. The beauty about TikTok and Instagram are very different platforms in the way that Instagram is a little bit more polished and it is a bit more, it's becoming a little bit more grittier and it's your page needs to be really pretty. So when you click on somebody, you want to know what they're about, you want to look at a pretty page. TikTok's a mess. It's just a hot mess. It doesn't matter what you say. People pick up the phone, they're walking. It's not, polished. I keep saying that word, just pick it up and do it. There's a new thing I learned it's called the millennial pause. Yeah. Yeah. As charged. Okay. I didn't know it was a thing, but I edit all my videos. So the second you scroll down, it's almost the first word is cut out because I just begin talking. So apparently millennials, we all stop because we think you just got to wait a second for the video to start and then action. So a lot of the time you'll see people, they'll come up, there's a one second pause and I, And then you do, you hear the breath. And then the talking, my advice to you is edit that bit out almost to the point where soon as the video starts, sound starts, do not even have a millisecond of a pause and then just go for it. Absolutely. Just go for it. Don't overthink it. Even stuff that you take for granted, like no one cares, believe me, they care. It's don't take it for granted your knowledge. So for instance, I would love to know Because I don't have this skill set. I'm not an interior designer, what four colors work really well together and what four colors that people put together and they clash like a like a warm gray because everyone's doing gray and then they'll pair it up with a warm tile. Already you had a whole content, a whole tick top, you put the two colors up against each other. This is the mistake. I see people make when you have a cool color. How do you know if something's a cool color, warm color, this basic stuff for you guys are like, duh, everyone knows that. Newsflash, they don't. Same as me. Things that I thought people just didn't know. They didn't. And and that's where you listen to your audience and then you just reply, don't overthink it. Don't worry. If you sound silly, you probably will, but somebody will listen to it and go, Oh my God, I just learned something. This chick is awesome. This guy's awesome. Whatever. I might learn something. Another video comes up and I'm like, Oh my God, I just learned something else. Follow straight away. I'm done. I'm in. So it's what value do you give to your your audience? Don't overthink it. Just dive straight in. And I promise you give it two to three months of actively posting almost every day. And it will just come easy. I pick up my phone now and I'm like, yeah, Hey, these three things add value to your home. I just rolls off the tongue like it takes a little while, like I stuff up and I'm going to start again. But it's finding the time and it's like a part time job. So commit to it and the reward comes

rhiannon: 35:33

Full circle. I love that you say it's still cringeworthy, which I am exactly the same when I hang in there and having a podcast is like painful. Editing my own podcast is like nails. I feel like, Oh good. I get to re listen to myself. But Your content is not for you. So that's important

belinda: 35:53

to remember what we create

rhiannon: 35:57

is not supposed to be consumed by yourself. That's stupid. You could just sit in a room and put a mirror in front of you. Yeah, that's not actually. And that's why it hurts so much because you are not a homeowner looking for an interior designer. You're an interior designer. So you and those four colors, you're like, Oh, I already knew that. But that's because the content isn't for you. So it all automatically already feels on a lame o meter, like worse because you already and I also love that tip. I did this just yesterday. I was in my group coaching, like in a private chat and I showed my, a video of the deliverable email that I send out to my clients, and I had shared that with them in a still frame, but I showed it in a video and they were all like, oh, wow, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, sorry. I thought this was common sense and we were all doing this. I thought I already shared this inside of the course. I didn't think to tell you. This change, because it seemed so innate to me, but you forget whenever you're creating content, you are so many steps further along than the person who's just landed on your page. The very simplest thing you know about interior design is interesting to them. And yes, your samples in your studio is riveting. We watch TikTok. Trust me. Being able to, as you say, talk to cool tones and warm tones in one box of timber samples. It's really engaging content that someone who's not a designer can't do. I love it. I do think it's an important and difficult, give yourself grace as well. It's a difficult skill to overcome, to actually get past that cringe and stand up and film and not

belinda: 37:31

Refilm and refilm and refilm and refilm. Be kind to yourself. Be kind. Yeah, it is. It's very critical of ourselves, but you'll eventually get over it. Like this has been two years for me. Yeah. Now of just almost daily content. And like I said, some of them, I spend a lot of time, some of them. I just throw it out in the car, I'm about to get out and I'm like, Oh, before I get out, I'm about to see a client and this is what we're going to talk about and bang. I'm out the door. The hardest bit is the editing bit for me to be quite honest. Yeah, that would be the actual filming of it because I do it all. I don't have a content person or anything. So I would film it, but then I love chopping it. So it's There's no pause and that's a kind of like a skill that you've got to learn. And then I put like a little caption or a heading, and then I pick the right song and then I've got to drop the volume right down. So it's not too loud and I'm bearing over my voice. And then I want to write the right, like something a bit cool in the caption and hashtags. So that end to end process. Of the editing myself, and I just edit within either TikTok or Instagram. I don't use a fancy editing app. I think they're good enough. The algorithm is going to push you if you do this or the right. No, the viewer is going to push you. So if you've got an engaging video and believe me when I say the video that you least expect is the one that's going to go viral. The one that you're like, this one's great. I'm going to, this is the one that's going to go viral for me. It's 1,100 views and you're like, okay. But the rando one that I did a few months ago got, 200,000 and I didn't think anyone was gonna watch that. So it's the one that you least expect. Don't overthink the algorithm, don't overthink the hashtags. Just do it and send it. And then eventually one, one will stick for no logical reason other than. People watched it and they went, Oh, and it's the one that you take for granted. So one of mine on Instagram, it was about interior design hack part two. And all I said was there was a cabinet on a fridge and you can, it's a cheap way to make it look like it's integrated. Rando. So Rando got 900,000 views on Instagram, and I got 20,000 followers. It took me two years to get 20,000, my first 20, and then it took two months to get my next 20. Who knew? So

rhiannon: 40:01

in terms of going viral, what does that look like from a potential client base? How many of those people who followed you for faux joinery around a fridge? I'm going to reach out into your business and get consult do you know what I mean? Did it feel like it flattered your account with people who maybe weren't genuinely there to work with you?

belinda: 40:21

So I was really hot in India for a hot minute. I think it went to India Instagram because I had a lot and that's fine. I love that. I went international. I ended up in, I think, Texas because I had a lot of people would you go, Oh, that's a random person. And then you click in their profile and you say like something, Texas, something, Texas. So I must've somehow trended. In Texas. And again, that's fine. And what you find too, Rhiannon, and you'll know this too, is it takes a little bit for people to trust you and to realize that you're the real deal. And then I get a lot of months later. I get, so every day you check your graph, like you can see your followers. I was hitting anywhere from 500 to 2000 a day. It was crazy. I was like, what, this is nuts. Where I'd barely get five. But I found that as that video stopped trending and people were more aware of my content, they're like, Oh, she's not just interior design hack. She does. All different. And she's very Australia like interest rates and stuff. We don't understand her because her Aussie accent's too thick. I don't know. And then they, would you notice the drop off rate really steep. So then I plateaued for ages. So I might make a, 2000 followers, but I'd lose 1500. Yeah. And this trend happened, and then what I found is it stabilized. And I, after say a couple months, I had, Hey, I've been following you for a while. Love your stuff, blah, blah, blah. Hey my sister's been following you. I've just found you. I don't still know what you do. Do you think we could have a chat? So you get a lot of, it takes, you don't get immediate. There are influx of business from it. Absolutely not. You need to build up your trustworthiness and that's where you giving advice to people genuinely and organically and not looking like you're looking for business, it comes back.

rhiannon: 42:16

It's really good to know that it does swings and roundabouts and it pulls back because I think that's a big fear for some people on a business account is I don't really want to gain 10, 000 followers who, Don't know and trust me or don't ever watch my stories or, dilute my messaging or algorithm. I think that's been a fear for many people about I won't do too much because I don't want to go too viral or anything like that. And I think it's nice to get that feedback from someone who has had some of those. Reels picked up that yes, you might see a spike, but you will see them self qualify themselves, show themselves the door when the time comes, if they're not interested in what you do, which is good.

belinda: 42:55

Yeah. I think don't try too much crazy. My genre is quite I've, I don't know. Naturally, deferred straight to the kind of renovation adding value, because that's where I found a lot of my questions come from. And again, I'm not doing it for my peers and my colleagues. I'm doing it really for people that are following me. So honing into what they're asking you, even if it's like, Oh, I'm like my skill, without sounding any, my skillset is not really in my skillsets in value and quite complicated properties. Not really in showing someone how to add value to their suburban home, but I love it because I'm helping them and my skill is genuinely helping them, so your skillset might be, commercial, complicated commercial fit outs where you need to get really complicated DAs involved in construction, but yet all people want to know about is. What color should I paint my house? Do you know what I mean? Yeah,

rhiannon: 43:52

you have to meet them where they're at, even if it's not where you want to be. Like you just have to go there and get it done, which is great advice. I just wanted to ask you, you mentioned before around, and TikTok can be a bit of the wild west, but keyword warriors or people getting on, like when you get more and more attention, you obviously do get. People fighting amongst themselves in the comments or having really strong opinions. How do you cope with that? What is your advice around managing that as the account manager, when all of that's going on? And it can like, depending on your personality, I think that could really adversely

belinda: 44:26

affect you. Okay. Instagram is amazing because people that follow you watch your reels and they'll respond to you and they usually, I would say 90%, 95 percent of the time. Polite, kind. Love that. Thanks. Awesome. Thanks, Bell. Great. Really polite. I feel safe. It's like my happy place. Very nurturing. And then I go to Tik TOK and it's people have no filter. They've got no respect because if a video goes viral, like if it goes to two or 300, 000 views, it goes out to the broad. TikTok world and anybody watches it right where I find a lot of the time, only my followers, watch my Instagram reels and TikTok will send it out to the broader audience to the point where someone replies back and says, Hey, I haven't seen you pop up on my TikTok for a while. Missed your content. I'm like, dude, I've been posting every day, but the algorithm is different. So then you have a lot of people that feel like they put it upon themselves to apply to you. Okay. And I would, people would worry about to them. I, of course I know what I'm a property value. I've got a university degree in economics and, property majored in property. And my husband's they'll just don't like, don't leave them alone. They're not worth it. And I'm like, but they said, I don't know what I'm talking about. I actually do. And I've learned to just ignore them. Don't even it will burn you. It will make your skin crawl. Cause all you want to do is fight back, just leave it.

rhiannon: 45:57

And that's exactly what they're looking for. It's Primary school yard advice that you would give your children as well. But it's so hard not like to bite your tongue, but I think that's really good perspective to be like, hang on a second, this has now been accessible to a whole bunch of people. I never intended it to be for. So then when they have an opinion, they don't have an opinion. They're putting what they're. They're just trying to get someone to write back and say, and, yes, that might be good for engagement, but it's not good for your mental health. So keep

belinda: 46:25

on going. You know what I found too, it looks really tacky and it looks really unprofessional when the creator bites back, it's almost like. You put yourself out there, they're applying to you copper, don't fight back with them.

rhiannon: 46:42

Do you know what I mean? You wouldn't do it on a Google review. You've got a Google business, you wouldn't snap back with, excuse me. I am fully qualified to have done it. You would never do that. So you have to look at them. Like I mentioned before, with TikTok being a preferred search engine, then I like to think of it more like Google as well, for those who don't understand how to use that platform, you can really simplify it. And then if you compare those two, if somebody wrote you any kind of negativity on Google business profile, you would. Take a breath, step back, and then however you reply to that publicly personifies your professionalism. So it's if you can come back and say, we're so sorry, you've had that experience. Let me take it offline and get in contact with you and see if we can come together and mutually, and that's how you would behave there. It's how you have to cop it on your like profile, isn't it? Not talk back.

belinda: 47:35

I have. I have removed a few videos. If the like sometimes I like to do something a little cheeky and push the envelope a little bit on my content. Cause I have my, I'll spark some controversial comments and then they'll fight amongst each other. And then sometimes it doesn't go the way I planned and I've gone, okay, delete, delete, because it gets too much. It's too much negativity. Like I said, one, this one is very, The example, I thought I would be a bit cheeky and say that, this is a public announcement. If you're a boomer and you live in a 5 bedroom house. Please pack up your stuff and move out. We've got a housing shortage and we need houses. Like I said, it in a, like a tongue in cheek kind of way. Oh my God, I got abused. And who do you think you are? And like really mean. And then I thought about it.

rhiannon: 48:24

Yeah. Oh,

belinda: 48:25

just everyone. I don't know. I don't know who that were. And then I went, you know what my mom or my grandmother live on their own and not a huge home, but they live on their own in their home that they've paid off and they've lived forever. Who am I to tell them to move out just for the next generation? They've, they paid their taxes. They've done the right thing. They didn't gamble that in still they. Legitimately own their home, who am I to tell them to move out? So then I removed it and then I did it wasn't an apology video, but basically that tone, I was like, guys, I did this video. You guys called me out on a hand up. I, it was wrong. I thought about it. Who am I to tell my grandmother that she can't live in her home because she's now You know, empty nester. She feels safe there. It's a, she's elderly, let her live there forever. Who are we, we want to live till we're in our 80s and 90s, but then at the same time, we're going to house everyone. They have a right to live in their home and feel safe. They're not hurting anyone. Let them stay. If you do put something a little cheeky. And, you might say, oh, this interior design style. It's so last year. And then people like, oh, that's rude. I've just done that. Or, you said maybe I did push it a little bit too far. You can always remove it. Yeah, but other times I'm like not sticking to it. Don't care if you don't like it. That's my opinion and I'm going to stand by it.

rhiannon: 49:49

So having the opinions is important, but I love that it shows so much emotional intelligence and the ability to show up and evolve. And you said that's what it is community before. It's not a community. If you're not having a relationship enough where you can apologize for something, you can learn how to do something differently. And even sometimes, cause we are creating content in such a Frequency that sometimes you like, you make it. It runs fine in your head in your own office, and then you push it live. And then, it does take a whole bunch of reaction to suddenly go, okay, maybe that didn't sniff the way it sounded in my, when it went out, I've definitely done that. I've talked many times about, maybe I haven't, my messaging hasn't been right. And what I'm trying to say about how I really resent that six figure, Number being shouted all the time from coaches. I can get you there in six minutes and then nobody works more than six minutes a year. And, there's a bit of

belinda: 50:45

those as well.

rhiannon: 50:47

But I've posted some things and I have had people six and seven figure business heads, I guess people who use that messaging, come back and write in the captions things. I had some time to sit and reflect and think, I think my messaging was off, I actually think it's the grammatic way that I presented it. So the words in a carousel rather than the intention. Being able to go back and publicly in that conversation and say, do you know what, babe, I think you're just picking up what I'm putting down, cause I put it down wrong. I think what I've done is misrepresented what I'm actually frustrated about with that. And that's not to poke holes in whether or not you are walking away with six. Because it's actually to try to get the greater population thinking about is that profit? Is that gross income? Like what does six figures mean when you see that as a marketing message? And all my intention was to get emerging designers to actually think about that message. Is that six figures since she started her business seven years ago, or is it this year so far in net? Yeah. I just was really trying to make that point. And I Don't think I did it well. So it's nice to be able to go to your community and say just as you did I'm just going to make a little tweak. I'll come back out. I'll own that. And when we do repurpose content, it's important. We learn from every interaction. So when you put something out, there's cues, I think that your audience will give you on how you can improve it for the next time you use it. It's just there in the captions. So like you were saying before, when people are asking, actually, What about the garden? Like how much of the landscaping is involved in the property? Like you're getting all these ideas and then you're like, okay I'm going to reuse this in three to six months time, but I'll quickly make a note now to change the cover to be like, to change the wording or whatever, to be really focused on the landscape angle or the something

belinda: 52:32

correct. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll give you another quick example too. I did this video where this particular week Rhiannon, I had Three or four, maybe of a fortnight of women that had perhaps had a deterioration in a relationship, divorced or de facto, and the husbands were predominantly the ones that took care of the finances and they were now on their own and they had a little bit of a payout and they're like, we don't know how to invest. We'll never got ourselves involved. I never even asked. My husband, what our interest rate was, and I had three or four of these clients in a row, so then I felt like just the education, financial education and property around, like for women I thought I was doing a good thing in my post. I said, ladies tonight, I want you to go and ask your husbands what they are. Did I say something along the lines of what's your interest rate? And make sure you ask them if they're interested. And then I got roasted what are we? 1950s. I do all my finance, not my husband, but I was like, I didn't mean it like that. I've just had a few, like genuinely hand on heart. I didn't mean like all women. I just went maybe I should have said for the ladies that aren't in charge of the, but then I thought, no, I'm going to leave it. I'm going to leave it because my intention was pure and I really did it to help the ladies that perhaps. Aren't involved in the financial decisions because I can see the aftermath of what happens when you're not, because I had those clients come to me and then now, if I was to do that post again, regurgitate it, I would change my tone, not my time, but my words yet, because I just felt a little like guys, I honest to God, didn't say it to be like an anti feminist, but at the same time, there are a lot of ladies that aren't involved.

rhiannon: 54:21

And I just wanted, and then we come in with the like, attention if you feel like you are not up to date with what's happening.'cause you feel like you are, you don't have as much of a say as the second partner in the relation, like you just probably come at it with a like much broader Yeah.

belinda: 54:36

And I, and then sometimes I'm like, oh there, it's okay. I gotta careful with my words here.'cause I'm like I'm not gonna say we're, so we are a little bit like, everyone's a little bit sensitive. On things like we can get triggered and then I feel like we have to be careful with our words. So I'll leave it at that without getting myself in a hole. But I think if you are saying something, just be mindful that can someone take it a different way. Some people just get triggered for nothing and you're like, okay, Karen, relax, but in general, if you do feel like the tone is maybe, you're trying to push a point and it could offend, just be like, don't be tone deaf on what. It's happening in the moat at the moment with things. Cost of living, there's cost of living, right? So if you're an interior designer listening to this and you're talking about, oh, don't be cheap, go and spend the money on, this and this, and then you might get attacked in the comments and say it's expensive and not all of us have, 300, 000 to renovate. So just be mindful of the sensitivity around things out there and how you say

rhiannon: 55:42

it. It's also volume as well. We forget because we're one account, one person posting one thing when you forget just actually, that analysis of reach is for a reason. You have a really big reach. So it's going out to a lot more eyeballs than you should. And they all have a different. Life experience, childhood opinions, levels of sensitivity. So then you're actually, you cannot please anyone, everyone I mean, and you shouldn't be trying to do that. But I think that whole advice about, if something feels tone deaf, maybe it is, and really looking back inside and doing some work to go, can I improve it? Remove it. What actually needs to happen with this post if it doesn't hit, because some of them won't. Yeah.

belinda: 56:25

So just be just be aware if you start getting the comments, make the decision there to remove it. And it might, it can hurt your brand a little bit too, because you're like, no, that's not something that I followed you for. I don't like that. So yeah.

rhiannon: 56:41

Swings and roundabouts again, things will calm down anything that affects you in such a massive way. It's generally for that day because it is just happened and just know that in a week's time, that person will not be offended by that or upset, or even remember that real existed and so on. So I think we, you take it on board so much, it can ruin your entire day and you can be thinking, I've done this terrible thing. It's okay, but there is a way back from that in every instance, you're not getting, you just have to, as you say, Choose a course of action and move through it and get it done. Can you give me an example of either the best or worst business advice you've ever received?

belinda: 57:19

Best or worst business advice. I think I've been told this when I was trying to get out on my own. I was working for a very large valuation company and 11 years at that particular company, and I was comfortable. I had a paycheck coming in every fortnight or monthly. They take my tax out, they pay my super, what's left is mine. It was very easy. Some days I work hard, some days I don't, but I knew I wanted to get out on my own. And then I was appointing my Life, I was like, I can either go out on my own, or I had a job opportunity to go for another job. So I took the other job because I've got a mortgage and it was safe. But the whole time my heart wasn't in it. It was terrible. I didn't like that job at all. And all I wanted to do was go out on my own. And everyone kept saying, Bill, just do it. Just do it. Just do it. And I think if you ask someone that wants to go and either you're listening to this, you haven't taken that next step. My advice is just do it. Okay. Get to the point where you have built up enough, experience to go out on your own. If you go out to green, it can affect you a little bit because you don't have the experience. But if you've got the experience Just do it. The more you overthink it. And that comes with anything. I'm working on a course myself at the moment. You know how long it took me to actually start? Cause I kept overthinking it and I just went, just do it. I want to do an event this year where I would love to stand up and present to people and talk about a whole bunch of stuff, not just investing and renovating. I need to just do it. So my advice to you is if you want to get something done, don't overthink it. You want to start your TikTok account. You want to start that course. You want to start career. Don't overthink it. Start it and it will fall into place. If you believe in it and you have enough passion. I think the worst advice. Another piece of advice is get really good advice at the beginning around your tax, around your super, around managing your business, around your coming, especially if you've come from a corporate background, I would say it's very hard to, I found it very hard to get work, ask for work. Work would always come to me and I'm like, Oh, what do you mean? I have to go and find the work. Don't they just come to me? Like I have a website. I have an Instagram. It should just come. It doesn't. So you have to feel comfortable in putting yourself out there as well. The worst piece of advice is, I don't know. What about you, Ranan? What do you reckon?

rhiannon: 59:56

So many stinkers. Worst piece of advice. One that kind of bothers me a little bit sometimes can be like just keep going. And I'm a big believer of hang on, don't you want to assess what's not working and make some tweaks? Oh, yeah. Like really? So I think sometimes there's a blind, or if I hang out at it, it'll be successful. And it's there's a proportion of that's true. Often, your magic is around the corner. You can't give up too early. You do have to be really tenacious and hang on. But there's also a portion where if you're doing the same thing over and over again, we know you're just going to get the same results. So just keep trying isn't always the best piece of advice. Business advice in my mind, I actually think it's a little bit more nuanced than that. And you should really be thinking about, I need to try, but I need to try many different things, consistently evolve, review, look at the analytics, make a different decision, try out a different revenue stream. It's okay to just keep on. Going in a different way, or yeah, it sounds like keep going, but it's more keep going in a more educated way so that you're making some really

belinda: 1:00:57

good choices for your business. Yeah, fair enough. I have to agree with that. I agree. What she said. Ditto. Yeah.

rhiannon: 1:01:03

Thank you so much for your time I Feel like I could just keep going for ages. I'm sure there's enough questions out there. Anyone who wants to connect with you can jump into the show notes. I will put all of your details. They can check out your Tik TOK, check out what's working, come to you directly if they've got questions. Cause please don't ask me about investments and property. Cause I'll just handle you straight to bell anyway. So I'll put all those details there. And when can we expect to see the course what's happening? Are you writing, are you in the process of writing

belinda: 1:01:31

it? Yeah. So I really, there's a lot of investment courses out there, Rhiannon. So I'm not going to be one of them. I'm going to give you your perspective of a valuer and I'm going to actually do it as a, I'm going to teach you how to do it yourself. I think a lot of these courses do it to a point where they're like this is what you need to do. This is what you need to do. But they always come unstuck and they're like, you need us to then find you the property. It's this is all the strategy. People teach you a lot of surface stuff. I'm teaching you way down the foundations from a professional perspective. I'm giving you the tools. Call me Bunnings. I'm Bunnings. And I'm going to give you the tool. I'm going to sell you the tools, show you how to use the tools. And then you go out and build. Your portfolio, whatever you want to do. So

rhiannon: 1:02:14

it's a building course. Best of luck with it. I know it's so much, I did the same thing with the procrastination thing. This podcast should be five years old. This course that I run for interior designers should be five years old. Like these are things that they're so Epic. You've got to take a lot of time off work to put the time upfront into building like awesome things. And I love that just do it. Cause it's like the rugs coming out from under your feet. No matter how you look at it, it's either coming out now or it's coming out when you finally agree. So you might as well just get rid of it. Stop like getting in your safety net and just get on with it. It's

belinda: 1:02:49

the fee. It's a, that's probably the word I didn't use was don't let fee stop you. Don't let tall poppy syndrome oh, you shouldn't, you don't, what do that sort of self doubt. If you believe in yourself and you think you can do it, if it's almost I don't want to sound like deep and spiritual, but it's almost like if you do it and it fails and you do it and don't fail, it's like, what do you got to lose? 100%.

rhiannon: 1:03:12

I don't know if that's the right way to say it. I know what you mean. The thing that you have to lose though, is that feeling that you explained really well before about sitting in that new job, pining for the life you didn't go after. And that's what's actually on the table here. So when you let fear win, you're in the new job, you work corporate, you clock in, you clock out, there's no love. Like seeing that you're passionate about that you really want to do. That's what stands to lose. So if you are someone who is going to go out on your own or go and do something big and scary, which we all try to do as many times as you possibly can, that's what you're protecting, that's what you're working for, that's what you're actually trying to do more of in your life is to design that success that like. It's at the core of you instead of someone else's dream, someone else's business, someone else's.

belinda: 1:04:01

And don't do it for the money. The money will come do it for the love and do it right. Do it correct. Do it because you want to do it. And if you're doing it for the money and your intention is like just for the cash, it, you find it doesn't organically work. Like you got to do it for the love and then the money will come.

rhiannon: 1:04:19

On that note. Thank you again for joining me and I look forward to chatting to you again. Thanks for having me. Thanks Val. Bye for now. Bye.

1:04:29

That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.