Overheard.. Eliza Grace Interiors spills 11+ years of business gold.

Today on the podcast 

The Importance of Transparency and Sharing in the Industry: Eliza's willingness to share her rates and services guide is a testament to the value of transparency in the interior design industry. This openness not only fosters a sense of community and support among designers but also helps newcomers understand the business aspects of the profession.

The Journey from Passion to Profession: Eliza’s story of knowing she wanted to be an interior designer from a young age, diverging into a different field, and then returning to her passion could inspire those unsure about pursuing interior design. It highlights the value of following one's passion, even when it might not align with societal expectations of a "proper job."

The Reality of Starting and Growing Your Design Business: The discussion about the challenges of being taken seriously at a young age, the transition from part-time to full-time business, and the strategy behind securing consistent work with builders offers practical insights for new designers about the realities of building a design business.

Investing in Your Business and Yourself: The plans for a brand refresh, joining a women's mastermind, and the dream of opening a studio speak to the importance of continual investment in one's business and personal growth. This can serve as motivation for designers to not only refine their craft but also explore opportunities for professional development and networking.

Thanks for listening to this episode of "Designing Success: From Study to Studio"! Connect with me on social media for more business tips, and a real look behind the scenes of my own practicing design business.

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Thank you for yo...

Transcript

0:12

Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you could expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success. My next guest needs very little introduction. But I will introduce her. Her name is Eliza grace or Eliza. And she ran allied to grace interiors. I have. Being good friends with Eliza for years, we've both been in the design circles. I've reached out to her for business advice. When I started writing the framework, she was the first person that I reached out to and I asked her, would you mind sharing your rates with me? And like just opening up a little bit more of the backend and processes across the industry. And as she always is, was super generous to be like, absolutely. Let me send you over my pricing and services guide. I want to be part of a change in this industry. And I really want to be open about how, what it's really like running a business. And that's what this podcast is all about. So I'm not going to hold you any longer. I want to get into the chat, please stick around to the end. There is actually I feel like this conversation evolves and it really unfolded into it, went into some really great places. And I know if you. You are starting or scaling an interior design business or a creative service-based business. This episode is for you.

rhiannon: 1:43

Hello. Hi, Eliza. Thanks for joining me.

eliza: 1:47

Thanks so much for having me. So excited to be

rhiannon: 1:49

here. It's nice. It's a shame we can't be in person again, but I am very impressed to see that we have for one time in our friendship nailed wearing different outfits. Because we have today for any listeners listening, we have met in real life and we have had other virtual conversations and both of those. Times that we have done that we have been wearing identical outfits. So today we've nailed it, not relevant to an audio platform, but still an interesting tidbit that we have similar styles. I think

eliza: 2:19

just shows that we're on the same level,

rhiannon: 2:21

and thinking about styles, I actually feel as though even way back in the early days of Oleander and Fidge, which was. Probably midway through your journey with your business, which we'll get to in a moment. We have often shared like similar mood board Mondays or come in with a vibe or felt as though, even though you have your own specific niche, I feel like over the years there have been crossovers. We've been like, ah, I did an organic kitchen or I did a sage green and pink, or I did this. And I just love that relationship can be supportive of two different designers, because in no way have I ever been like, Oh my God, she's copying me. It's always been like, how funny we've showed up again as identical twins.

eliza: 3:03

Yeah, there's been times that we've done like the same reel and I've messaged you and be like, I swear this was prepared like a week ago, which we know we're

rhiannon: 3:10

never copying. Yeah, and we also know that we do content planning and like content calendars and it's not possible for you to whip up. Something of that caliber five minutes after I do and be like, I didn't, I just wanted to copy. We'd never been the way but it is an interesting insight because I think in this industry, people can get sometimes caught up on oh, that's so similar to mine must've seen mine and then done it. And actually, when we think about the fact that we're all. If we are buying for the same ish potential client, we should be talking to that client in a very similar way if we are doing our jobs right and wanting to showcase what's possible from a transformation perspective and e design perspective and all that sort of stuff. So for me personally, I just always felt Oh that makes sense. Why wouldn't you show them what you can do in the kitchen? And that is a beautiful tap, of course we've both chosen

eliza: 4:00

it. You have great taste. We both have great taste.

rhiannon: 4:03

There you go. I might start with getting you to share a little bit about what drew you to the world of interior design in the first place. What made you decide was that something straight out of school? Or did you find your way there? What was your entry into the industry?

eliza: 4:18

Yeah Mine's a little bit cliche. It goes very way back to childhood. I always knew that I wanted to be an interior designer. I don't even know where it stemmed from, whether it was watching movies or seeing beautiful homes overseas. I just was always fascinated with the home. I was that kid that was always changing their bedroom around. I can distinctly remember in grade seven, I think it was, I think you're like 11 or 12 then. And the teacher goes around the room and asks you what you want to be when you grow up. And. I just confidently said an interior designer at that age and I probably didn't even know what it involved. So yeah from there I always had it in the back of my mind, but then over time I think throughout high school you get told that these creative industries aren't quotations, proper jobs, and you should probably find a more corporate job. So I went down the road of wanting to be a nutritionist and dietitian. So that was my goal throughout high school. I went to uni for about six months and studied science and decided that I actually hated science, so left there. And then, yeah, as I said, I always wanted to do interior design and it just kept pulling me back. I decided to take the leap and went to art college, studied interior design. So it was pretty much straight out of school after a little blip in science. I just always was fascinated by the industry and loved people's homes, loved helping people in their homes. So

rhiannon: 5:43

just best Barbie house on the block. Like mine's been really well. And you're welcome to come over and play with my Barbie house.

eliza: 5:50

Exactly. And I did I remembered something recently, actually. That when I was a kid, I used to have all these scrapbooks that I used to draw house plans in. And then I'd draw people who lived in the houses as well. And I was like, wow, I just, I knew from a young

rhiannon: 6:02

age. It's funny, isn't it? I have a college degree. Similar and I have like pictures of and then the attic goes there and then that goes on top of the attic and it's you might want to see an architect, but that's a really great plan, but seven. I wonder, you said that you and a roundabout way found your way into interior design pretty early. When it comes to the statistics are that it's a late career change or where more in our mid to late thirties, where we find that we want to pursue that, were there any challenges that came up with, I coach a few people that say that, they find it really hard when they're 24 fully qualified and people try to, or prefer to hire an interior designer with more life experience or who is. On this more mature side of the spectrum. Did you find that challenging?

eliza: 6:45

Yeah, definitely. And I think that's probably why I worked in the industry for quite a few years after I left studying. I worked in kitchens, bathrooms, tiles, and always had my business on the side, but it did take quite a few years. Even I think it's for people to take you seriously, but also for you. to take yourself seriously as well, because there is that imposter syndrome. You are young, yeah, you're questioning why these people should. Trust you with their homes, but at the end of the day, I think the more you do it, the more you learn and you grow and you build that confidence up. It's all just practice. it's learning in the industry as well. So taking on those jobs that maybe aren't exactly what you want to do long term, but when you're young, you can try out those different parts of the industry and learn as much as you can so that you know that it's going to be put towards your business in the long term anyway.

rhiannon: 7:38

It's an interesting thing, isn't it, where you, like, when you are younger, there's an element to I've never signed a home I'm not a homeowner. I've never signed that contract. Do I understand how significant this investment is for this family? There's a little disconnect. Having said that, There's people at the childcare center that I go to who are like 19 and look after the kids and don't have their own children. So you're like, maybe you don't have to do one to have the other, but that imposter syndrome for creatives means that you constantly doubt that you're the best person to employ for that role. If you haven't. Yeah, just a side note, I was just curious because I do see it come up a lot. Like anyone under 25 struggles so much to run their own business because they're just a bit like, no one's taking me seriously here and I don't know what to do.

eliza: 8:25

Yep. It's funny because even, so I turned 30 last year and that milestone, I don't know, it made me feel like I was more. Confident in running a business just because I had a three in front of my age. It just

rhiannon: 8:35

validates you as a person. Like I could do this. I'm an adult now. You need your pen license for a small business. It's I need my actual validation that I'm one of you guys now. I'm not just like floundering around in my twenties. It's interesting. And I do think a lot of it does come from maybe a client perception because Most of the designers that we see out there have come to the industry later in life. And so you are really exposed to more mature designers and designers more in my age bracket than yours that kind of can go, okay. So when we think back, and I know everybody's journey into running that business is a bit different. So you mentioned that you worked for other industry adjacent companies and other things and just ran Eliza Grace on the side. What, how was that? How did you come to that decision? How long did you do that for until you jumped in and decided, okay, I can do this full time.

eliza: 9:31

Yeah. So I pretty much created Eliza Grace interiors and the brand straight out of studying. So that was 11 years ago now, but then it was just a side hustle for many years. So I just worked on it in my spare time. I didn't really know if I wanted to make a career in a business out of it. So it did take quite a few years for me to make that decision. It wasn't probably until maybe five years in that I was like, no, I really want to take this to the next level. I want to focus on the business. So I was managing a design team at the time for a tile company in the building industry, so helping people do selections for building new homes. And the company was really great. It encouraged me on to pursue it. Do my own thing on the outside as well. So they were really supportive of that. I then got quite busy outside of work. So I was working evenings, working weekends, and I just knew that I wanted to take my business to the next level. So I dropped down to part time in my full time role and then focused on my business part time. So that was probably about seven years into running the business. So it did take. a long time for me to take those steps. But like I said, I was young, I was traveling, so there was a few other things going on. So yeah, once I went part time though, it was a very quick succession to then go full time. So it was only about six months. Between dropping to part time that I found myself having enough work, enough projects and creating that space to really create momentum within my business. So yeah, I jumped to full time and have obviously been full time ever since.

rhiannon: 11:11

And with the side hustle side of it, What was the volume like there? Like I know when I ran mine as a side hustle, I was pretty take it or leave it. Cause I was also working and I also had the kids. So I was Oh, two a month would be fine. Oh, it's a busy month. I might do four. If it's not, I might do one or none. Like I was pretty flexible cause I had that secure income and I had that other thing going on. What was your side hustle? Cause obviously, yeah, running it. What was the frequency? What was, what would you expect out there? Yeah,

eliza: 11:41

so I focused mainly on full service design still, and I was contracting as a stylist through my business to a homemaker center as well. So I was doing that all outside of hours of full time work. So it just got to the point where I couldn't really Take on anything else also had no social life. So yeah, something had to give when I dropped a part time that was when it made me realize that I do have enough projects to keep this momentum going, I just signed on with one builder that had new home builds once a month, and then I'd have smaller projects like full service design projects in between, and then also doing like a stylist role. I am a bit of a planner and a little bit of a control freak. So I do like to know what's coming up and yeah, and plan for these things. So I'm never someone to just completely quit my job and just see what happens. Yeah, I always wanted to make sure that I had enough projects in the pipeline and enough going on before I went full time.

rhiannon: 12:40

And when you say signed on with a builder, I'm assuming then that means that you had an agreement and they were referring people over to you and vice versa. What was that? How did you initiate that relationship and what was that like? Because I know lots of people out there are like step one, find a builder. Get the, get them on the books, but it's not that easy. The builders are, they take it or leave it sometimes and it's quite challenging.

eliza: 13:04

It is really hard to get that first builder. Definitely. I then lean on my connections from working in the building industry as well. So I did really foster those relationships and kept in touch with a lot of people throughout the years. And then. When you do have those relationships, then you are front of mind. Should they need an interior designer? So this builder, for example, they were looking for a new direction with their current interior designer. So that was when I came on board and basically just had an interview with them, like you would a normal job per se, but you're coming in as a contractor and then, yeah, from there. They just, we came to an agreement that for every new build that they would do, I would Be the designer for them. So I go into their studio. I do the selections at their studio and yeah, it's just consistent from there.

rhiannon: 13:55

Nice to have some of those little things to balance out, peaks and troughs in your business that there are quiet times, and there are times where there's a lot of e design stuff, or there's lots of full service stuff. And it's. Quite nice to just have that steady expectation that there's, a few selection appointments, a few styling appointments at HomeMaker, and there's, a few things going on. So would you advise that's a good way to approach things to try to get some more longevity in contracts or some agreements with, external

eliza: 14:23

brands. Yeah, I definitely think for peace of mind it just helps with looking long term on how you're going to pay yourself each week, how you're going to pay the bills, your profit, things like that. I always like to have consistent things. in the bank consistent things monthly, just for reassurance for myself because full service design and e design projects, they come and go and you'll either be that feast and or famine mentality. So there'll be a heap at once and then there'll be a bit of a lull for a while. So I think having those contracts with builders or suppliers that are consistent, it really makes the difference.

rhiannon: 15:03

And it's a really good point because most people in the early years, I find think about alternate revenue streams and immediately go to digital products. What can I sell? What can I offer? But that's actually not supposed to be for everyone because it's not actually everybody's wheelhouse. It's not that easy. It's not, it's never passive income and it's not what it looks like. And I think in the interior design industry, there's a lot of Oh, I'll just write a guide, but nobody's buying a guide. Nobody is picking up what you're putting down when you think. That digital product call. I'll just create a thing you have to market. The bottom out of that thing. Like you have to be on it all the time. You have to love it. You have to live it, breathe it, sell it. And really, I feel like a lot of people are actually just writing it to have something sit up on their website and be available for purchase, but it's not going to magically be enough of a revenue stream. Like I think this 27 product is not going to, yeah, some of them do change the world, but you'll always see a correlation between how much that. Person is talking about that offer and sending out that offer and living, breathing, screaming that offer over and over. But I feel like sometimes that something like getting a builder on the books, getting a contract, getting something like that is so much more aligned with the interior design industry than just writing a digital product and hoping for the best.

eliza: 16:21

Yep. I completely agree. And cause I've considered writing. products or courses or anything in the past too. But then I came to the realization that I am a people person as well. And I love dealing with people, like creating homes for people, seeing how they function, how their homes function for them. And not everyone's meant to be a teacher or be someone that provides guides or courses. So yeah, that was my conclusion for now. It's not to say that I won't ever do anything like that. But yeah, I just feel like it sits in two different camps. I did also write a guide a couple of years ago, completely flopped. So there's always failures in a business. The marketing piece

rhiannon: 16:59

is really hard.

eliza: 17:01

Yeah, a hundred percent. And that was probably my biggest issue is I didn't really have a What do you call it when you have like a marketing plan for a strong

rhiannon: 17:08

strategy for how you're going to sell this thing like you bought it and you made it, but then if you're not repeat, rinse and repeat that strategy over and over, you're not going to see. It's not going to leverage. It's not going to go anywhere. It's not going to grow because you were not watering it. You just bought the plant. You didn't feed the plant

eliza: 17:26

even doing the prior work of figuring out what your audience wants and what their pain point is that providing? Advice on how to run a business or is that providing styling advice in a home? Like it's just, yeah. Catering to your audience as well.

rhiannon: 17:43

And there's always a little bit of a disconnect here between what people say that they want more of, and they want, and what people are willing to pay for. So we live in a really value heavy society and especially online, like everything's free. And then it comes to I'm actually wanting to create something that benefits the profit of my, my business. And it's part of a. revenue strategy what would you buy? What would you pay for? And People say, oh, that's a good idea. It's still crickets when it comes to getting the credit card out. Like it has to be a no brainer offer really solving their problem and it's harder than it looks. Yeah, definitely. In the early stages. I know certainly I've felt this as well and it's getting better and better of the more AI and robots, and we've got all these free virtual staff now, but in the beginning you wear every hat, you do everything you're, you're the IT manager, you're the HR manager, you're, The accounts payable lady, you're going to call up, you're doing everything. How did you juggle that or manage that? Because it is really overwhelming. Especially after you've left your other employment and it's all on you and everything's yours to juggle. Any tips? What did you do?

eliza: 18:50

Yeah, it is definitely hard in the beginning and to know what to prioritize and where to Put your time and effort into. I ended up creating more of a structure for my week and planning my week around my goals and the projects that I'm working on. So in the beginning, I just found that I was working in the business a lot. So I would just simply be working on the designs that I'm doing. Working with clients all week, and then I wouldn't be working on the business, and there was no kind of social media strategy or marketing strategy. Whereas over time, I've developed and know where my strengths lie in terms of what day of the week, if it's morning or afternoon that works best. So I structure my week. With Mondays being an admin day so that I can get everything done on a Monday that needs to be done. I do all my content planning and film any content that needs to be done on a Monday as well. And then on Tuesdays, I have an afternoon to dedicate to moving the needle in business. So whether that's creating new offerings, refining services, changing anything on the website that needs to be changed, updating anything in the back end. So it's really just about dedicating the right side of your brain to what day or what time of day of the week to do that. And then later in the week, I dedicate to seeing clients now. So I think just planning and consistency. make such a difference in terms of tools, though, I'm pretty old school. I don't use a heap of programs or online tools. I am very old school and I use, I still use a weekly planner. I still use like a physical planner to plan out all content and. And I can't physically write my to

rhiannon: 20:37

do list, so you got to do what works for you and there's no, I just think so many people turn themselves inside out trying to, learn notion or learn something they're seeing other people doing. It's like that works for some brains and that's really great, but it's totally fine as you say to just, write a to do list. Put it on a whiteboard, acrylic, like whatever you need, if you need to visually, and I think for some people as well the action of writing it down helps to cement it into your mind. Whereas sometimes when you're just quickly typing another thing, it's just not, you're not quite as connected as you are when you're physically writing. So I agree with you. I love notion. I love notion for everything, but I absolutely still write in my daily little planner here. Just to make sure. Get things sorted so that I know where I'm at.

eliza: 21:24

Yeah.

rhiannon: 21:25

How did you decide on your business's niche? So everyone's always talking about niching down and I'm making sure that you have a really clear and defined niche inside of the industry. How did you firstly decide on what niche you would go for and then how do you communicate that to people?

eliza: 21:42

Yeah. So I think, I have a different opinion to a lot of people when it comes to niching down. I think in the very beginning of your business, it's not important to niche down as much, especially in the interior design industry, because there are so many different aspects of it. You can do e design, you can do new home selections, you can do full service design decorating. So I think in the beginning. It's quite nice to offer a range of different services and then figure out what you like and where your strengths lie. Because if you just rush into one thing in the beginning and pigeonhole yourself as one specific aspect, then it may not be the thing that you want to do long term. And then pivoting your business to a different niche could be a bit tricky. So I think definitely over time, it's best to niche down. But in the beginning, my advice is to try a few different things.

rhiannon: 22:39

I think that's really great advice because your business can look entirely different than you meant it to, and you can fall in love with the section of design that you didn't know you enjoyed. And that's, or you can identify something. So you do your first selections. You're doing FF& E, you get everything sorted and you go, I hated the pressure of that. I could not make a decision on a tile. I did not enjoy that. And you go over here and you're doing do a full service or you're doing any design and you go, Oh, I really liked that room refresh. And I didn't have anything to do with the fixtures. So maybe that's more what I'm, What I love. And I think if you haven't tried with a real client, both of those things, you're, yeah, you're only hypothesizing what you love based on your design. Training or your design school, as opposed to real life in the industry. Do I love it or love it? And it can surprise you, I think. So just cause it's on your services guide or you create an investment guide and it's got three different products. It's always good to remind people when you have a discovery call that you're qualified to do pretty much anything that falls under the interior's umbrella and you're happy to talk about that and maybe explore that because try it once and don't repeat it if you hate it but certainly it might be something you then are like this is something surprisingly my jam and I had no idea and I would never have tried it if I didn't just say yes to a facade consult or something. I just did not put on the flyer.

eliza: 24:03

Yeah, definitely. And I think it's taken a long time for me to realize what I enjoy the most and it is two different parts of the industry. So I do really enjoy the full service decorating and furniture section. Selections, but then I also really enjoy the new home selection. So picking all the fixtures and finishes. So I think only in the past couple of years, I've learned to kind of niche down into those two areas. So you'll see me promoting those a lot more. They'll be the front. Facing offering on my website, that'll be what I promote most on Instagram. But then if I do have a client inquiry that is interstate and wants e design, then I do still offer that. It's just not what I'm promoting the most. And even if it's a one off design consultation or even mentoring, like I do offer these services, but they're just in my back pocket for the right client.

rhiannon: 24:54

And back pockets can be really large. Just a note to all business owners. You, not everything has to be client facing and confusing. You don't have to show everything. You can have a tool kit and a back pocket full of things that match your client's need or when you're having a discovery call without shouting about. Hey, I can do this. I can do that. It's yeah, that's what makes an interior designer. Like it's okay. We, a color consultation or a special planning or all these things can be offered later. Keep the website clean, keep a couple of key things that you think you really like, but yeah, especially at the beginning, be quite open to giving it all a go. I think that's great advice. When you did niche down, did you find that process organically or did you like seek out like it's time to find a place in the world and I have to do it? How did you go about it?

eliza: 25:43

Yeah, I think it happened organically. I just tended to have a lot more clients that were wanting those full service design offerings and wanting that hands off experience. They want to hand over the house, let me decorate, let me design everything to a T. And the more that you do those jobs, the more that those jobs will be sent your way, especially if you're photographing it and advertising it and promoting it, then the niche tends to create itself, I find.

rhiannon: 26:12

Yeah. In terms of the business side of things, it is, you hear all these terms thrown around. It's a rollercoaster. It's wild ride. It's this and it's that. Is there anything particularly tough that you can pick out over the 11 years that you've been in business? Like we've obviously always overcome a lot of things. Is there a particular time or incident that you can think of that's like pretty tough that you have to front up for and get over?

eliza: 26:38

To be honest, the hardest part about running a business is. that it all comes down to you. So when things aren't going great in your personal life, there's no one else to really handle the business or handle the work apart from you. So for full transparency, obviously life, there's lots of roller coasters in the past 11 years. I've gone through big breakups, I've moved house, I've had deaths in the family and All of those things happen whilst you still have to show up for your business every day. If you're working for a company, those things, you can take a couple of personal days or a couple of sick days. You can delegate things to someone above you or below you, but when you're a sole trader or when you have a small business, even if you're running a small team, Everything still comes down to you. So just being able to show up during the hard times in your personal life, I think is the biggest struggle when it comes to running a business.

rhiannon: 27:34

Showing up with that energy too. And, and showing up in a way that authenticity doesn't mean spilling the beans on everything. And it doesn't mean okay, I could use this as content. Like you've had a death in the family, you've got a grieving process to go through and there's no story. Space in your business to grieve. There's no safety net, as you say, of a few personal days, or a HR team saying, look, maybe just don't come in or maybe take some more time for yourself. Or are you okay? Are you okay days? Just you talking to you like it's, and it has to be every day and I think it's really underrated how important it is to not have a standard operating procedure for stuff like that, but to. Consider it before it happens. Cause once you're in it, you're so in it. There's no, you can't bring the energy that you need to be the advocate and the voice of your business. You're not showing up in stories being like, Hey guys, just wanted to say blah, blah, blah, and then stop and then cry. And then it's very obvious when people are going through stuff in retrospect, if they share that with you, you're like, Oh yeah, I didn't see you on for a while, or you did seem a bit flat or it was this and that. And it's yeah, up to you. You are the only. touch point with all of the clients+and all the future work that it's, have you found any tools to do that? Have you set? Do you have a bit of a precedent or a process that you now can employ if something like that was to happen tomorrow? You're like, okay, we do this.

eliza: 28:54

Yeah, I think it just comes down to showing up and doing as much as you can. So whether that's sleeping in a little bit in the morning and then still showing up at work and just going for a few hours, doing the priorities, it really puts things into perspective of what the priorities are in your business. So doing those projects, responding to clients and maybe Instagram, doing one post and then leaving it. Yeah, it just puts the priorities into perspective and even if you only get through a couple of hours and then you have to go have a nap or go have a cry, that's fine, but just putting in a little bit of effort and making sure your business is still running and then. Yeah, the hard times always get better. So just keeping that in mind as well.

rhiannon: 29:40

It's good advice. It's one step at a time. And I'm always telling other people, be kind to yourself. Don't we put so much pressure on ourselves that, that advice is really great at being like, maybe what you need is a sleep in and a quick. Stop strategy. That's all about repurposing because I promise you, you've made over a thousand pieces of amazing content in the past, none of which anyone, but yourself remembers, and so there's a whole bank or library of things that you've already tried already done, ready to go. If you just need a week off regurgitate it all. And no one's going to know like you can take that pressure off the content plan and strategy could be reenacted in four weeks. If that's how long you need. But I think thinking about that before it's happening is really good because you can find yourself in a place where you're like, Oh my gosh, this thing is happening in my personal life. And I can. There's no control in personal or professional. And so I'm really off rails. I really don't know what to do. And if you have a bit of a, Hey, I've thought about this beforehand because I'm the CEO of my business. I need to have an action plan for when things aren't going right and sitting down and going, what's that look save it in your written diary, if you need to, or your notion or whatever you need, that this is what's going to happen. This is like activate this strategy. If X happens. And just roll with it. It can give you can't always think clearly when you're in those moments and things as well. So just having something saved to the side that you can revisit and go, Hey, oh, I forgot about that. Yes. Repurposing. Let's just do that. I forgot about that. Yep. Take a half day off or, only show up for three hours of high impact and big results sort of stuff, instead of just showing up and fiddling around in Canva, like it'll help to clarify, as you say, it'll become really clear what is your actual top priorities in your business to keep it moving forward until you can catch up and represent it again. Okay. I'm going to dive into marketing and client acquisition. It sounds like a big fancy word, but just like how are we getting all these clients, how are we keeping them regular and how are we talking to them? What strategies over the years have you found the most effective in building brand and continuing to keep incoming inquiry, getting those leads and getting leads that are decent, that you actually want to work with. Like how have you approached that?

eliza: 31:54

So I think it comes down to two different aspects. So marketing on one side being the like social media and showing up on Instagram because I probably get about 50 percent of my clients from Instagram and that's obviously not an overnight thing and that takes a lot of dedication and consistency. Putting in the work and having a clear strategy on what you want to show, what you want to portray your business as on Instagram and whatever social media platform you choose, then clients will come. So once you do show your brand, you show your work, you show what you're working on, then you will find that clients, your dream client will start following you. And They'll be attracted to your work. So yeah, number one consistency was showing up online. And then the other aspect is obviously the in person and having good service delivery. So when you do get those projects, putting 100% Of your effort in creating beautiful work and then finishing the projects and having them photographed and then being able to use those photographs on your website and promote them on your socials as well and use them for any marketing as well. And then, in turn, when you complete a project, then. You'll get referrals from that client because they obviously have friends, probably similar age, similar demographics that are building homes or wanting to redo their homes. So if you do a good job, you're obviously going to get recommended. And then also with that in person aspect, as I touched on earlier. Working in the industry and just creating those relationships doesn't mean that you have to work for another company, even if you're out visiting suppliers, just building those relationships with the people that work for suppliers so that if a client comes in and they are after an interior designer, again, you'll be front of mind if you have that good relationship and they'll be able to recommend

rhiannon: 33:52

you. The interesting thing is it's attracts and when you say once you it's like a snowball effect once you start or boulder effect or whatever the term is. But once you start showing a few of your completed works, people like, ah, yeah, I see. Yeah, I want one of those as well. I love the point that you made around. Instagram bringing in that much of your new inquiry and how it is consistency. So sometimes in my group calls, for example, people are putting in a lot of work, but then they're like, maybe Instagram isn't the platform for me because I'm not getting all my clients from Instagram the way you might say you have a 60 percent split from Instagram and some other platforms. When you're five years, six years, 11 years in, and you've had a strong focus on that since the birth of your business, that is why your percentage is so skewed towards people know they can reach into your DMs. They're part of your overall Ecosystem, if you will, like they hover around and contact you and like different things and reply to your stories. And it becomes a relationship before it's an inquiry. And I think people forget that all of us have sat down and thought this doesn't work, burn it to the ground in tears on the shower floor going, I worked so hard on my Instagram and no one likes it, or no customers buy from me through Instagram. We have both had that experience. I'm sure I'm speaking for myself, but I see you nodding. And yet. I get weekly multiple inquiries just saying Hey, you still designing? Do you still do this? So it does work, but it's like such a long game. Pinterest. Everyone's like Pinterest is a long game. Don't expect much same as Instagram. You can't just show up and three days later, expect a pipeline of leads. That's take my money. Like people do love what you're doing, but that's a platform where they're there to consume. They're there to look at things on bulk and they're not, it's not a Shopify I don't know what it, you know what I'm saying? It's not, they're not like to buy something. So it's can take a little bit longer for them to make that bridge between awareness of your brand and wanting to become. A member of that and actually receive that transformation. So hold on if you're out there and you're frustrated, keep going. And I

eliza: 36:01

also think I've realized, come to this realization recently that you have to be the type of person that someone wants to follow as well, because I feel like I've got, I've done this as well. And I see other interior designers do this where they're only posting to get clients, if that makes sense. So they're only doing posts, promoting their work or promoting their services. They're not providing information. They're not providing like styling tips or information or sharing their behind the scenes. So your ideal client, your dream clients. probably going to follow you on Instagram if you just look like an advertisement. They're probably going to follow you if they're interested in styling tips because they're about to buy a new home or they're interested in lifestyle and just the type of life that you live. So I feel like that can be somewhere where people go wrong as well as just thinking that you, Instagram for advertising your services,

rhiannon: 37:05

It's like a more robust picture. It's like the difference between if we're talking to interior designers, it's the difference between a 2D image and a 3D image, right? So if you can go out with the 2D, no one's really going to get it. It's just like the spatial plan. It's not nearly as good as when you go in and render it and you're able to drone them through and say, this is the whole picture. We need to think about Instagram like that because yeah. Even if that means you just show up in your stories and say, I watched the new grand transformations on ABC, it's Australian. If you're interested in interior design, you might like it too. Here's a link or check it out. Just a little recommendation from me, or I ordered the new Shane McGee book and I really love it. And like those things, people are not using any of that, but it's connecting with your personality without going out there and saying this really intimate thing happened to me, I have to share everything. There's so much top line, no, yeah, no intimacy whatsoever, but building knowledge of you and trust, know, and trust all that comes from that overall picture. Not just what is e design, how to work with me, where can you contact me for more? I am, you do see a lot of that and it has to be spliced. Anyone's listening, spliced in between all the other stuff. So all that great educational content and get to know you stuff. So if you're uncomfortable, yeah. My advice is lean into the, pinpoint the bits that are your weakness, and then schedule those to go out. And even if that's the, I'll stand behind the camera and talk about paint colors or talk about tiles. You won't see my face, but you will hear my voice, which will mean that you get to know a little bit more about who's behind the Instagram account because. I reckon there's thousands of Instagram accounts out there for interior designers that are just front facing tiles of either how to work with me what I love, what I do, what about them? Because your business isn't about you. As soon as you disconnect your ego from your business and talk to how I help you, what I can do for you, what I bring to the relationship so that you walk away with the outcome, the sooner it takes off, don't you

eliza: 39:05

think? Yeah, I completely agree. And like you said earlier, just showing, because obviously as an interior designer where our whole lives There's so many aspects of our lives that we read books about interior design. We're reading magazines, we're watching a TV show. So just sharing those behind the scenes, because then it makes you more credible as an interior designer as well, that you are genuinely interested in home and decorating and design outside of. What you do for a living.

rhiannon: 39:36

And that you're upscaling your business and yourself, that you're always looking at, what's new, what's sustainable, what new materials are out, people love following that journey, that you are a person who wants to better the business over and over. Like people love it. The other thing that people love out there, and I always say to people. Think about how you were before you were an interior designer. Hands down, if you were an interior enthusiast, enthusiast, interior enthusiast, then you would almost certainly be obsessed with miniature sample things. Anything that can be delivered to my studio that is a sample for a designer is Like incredibly engaged with content whenever I share it, like this box of tiles, this box of floor samples, this linen samples, the the curtain samples just arrived and I'm going through them though. That sort of content works really well. So if you have those samples in your home, getting them out, making a flat lay, doing those sorts of things, it's all stuff that your audience will really love. And so I always like to think like before I was an interior designer, what did I love about interior design? Because that is what the people following you love. Because we get a bit blinded by being in the industry, but they're all watching these accounts because they're like, God, I wish I was an, they can't do what we do. That's why they hire us to do what we do, but they are really passionate about having beautiful homes and loving beautiful styles and put together design. You'll usually find someone who pays a deposit to work with you, follows. Hundreds of interior designers. So you should feel very privileged to receive that deposit and that they want to work with you. But yeah, I guess just as a little content tip, just brainstorm a whole bunch of things that people that you loved about design before you had a degree and you knew more in depth stuff about design.

eliza: 41:25

Yeah. And like you said, if they're following a hundred and they pick you, it's probably because of your personality. And what you've shown of yourself.

rhiannon: 41:33

So yeah, that's the only difference when there's a whole bunch of tiles and static posts from all of us that would be about the same, everybody's got one about how to hang the art, what rug size, what, what white paint, it's all very common stuff. The deciding factor and the difference is always you. Finally, just for those starting out in the interior design industry, because there's quite a few people listening who are probably just thinking about entering, what key piece of advice would you offer to help them just to make sure that they're going to get it right and get it done?

eliza: 42:04

Yeah, so it probably comes back to what we've touched on quite a bit throughout this chat is consistency. So showing up. day in day out as much as you can, even if you feel like you're talking to no one, you're promoting yourself to no one, the right people will come at the right time and they're probably going to be watching on for a little while before they purchase or have a chat to you about your services. It's just putting in the consistency as cliched as it is. And then, Also, just not giving up too soon because there is that quote, I think it's 90 percent of small businesses fail within the first year. And usually it's because they just give up that little bit too soon. Their business is about to take off, you're about to get that next client. But. You're just sick of being in the grind, which is completely understandable, but it is, it does take time to build a business and you just have to keep putting in the work.

rhiannon: 43:01

It's so hard to hold on, like from people who have been there, like I do completely empathize with the idea of okay, I've done 700 posts. I've never had a client or I've only had two clients and one was a friend's friend and you just, you feel so heavy. You're so hard on yourself in that first year. You're so like, this needs to be viable for me to not go back and have to pack shelves at night and I need to make this work and the pressures on me and I've promised my family, like if they give me six months to start up a business, I'll be this, I'll be that. If you hear a buzzword out there, then chances are, it's usually something to pay attention to because it might sound overused, but there's a reason it works. Be consistent, show up. You have to be resilient and you have to be consistent in small business as well. That's never going to change. You're going to have to. So the same thing over and over say the same message over and over, your statistic around businesses that fail. Yes. It's almost always connected to people who give up, but also the other statistic is, it's 11 times you have to show people something before it even computes to them. So to you as the person in charge of saying it 11 times, it's so boring. You're like, Oh my God, I feel like I'm shoving this service down their throat and they hate me and blah, blah, blah. That's on you. They actually haven't noticed you. They're too focused on them. They don't even know that you've said over and over, I've got a new course, a new thing bye, bye, bye. And it's that's actually your job. I like to think of it the way I do with my children. It's my job to advocate for them, medically in the world. They don't have a voice when they're two years old. Molly cannot say to someone, no, that's not good enough. And so you haven't. done, whatever. That's my job as like a mama lion to be like, Hey, no, I want a second opinion. That's not blah, blah, blah. That's my job. And that's my job for Oleander and Finch as well. So yeah. Is it uncomfortable sometimes to show up in stories and be like, okay, I've got this other thing on sale and I'm doing this thing, or, I don't do many sales and discounts, but more like this is what, how you work with me. And this is what it is. And it's not comfortable, but it is my job and I wouldn't work for anyone else in any other business and be like, I just don't want to bother them though. I think I might not talk about that without getting fired. They'd be like, sorry, that's not the job. Like you have to advocate for this brand and business. Don't you think it's funny how we will, when we do work for others, go to dinner, go out, meet friends and be like, Oh, we've got this really, when I worked in travel, like I'd be like, there's this really cool seven day trip to Japan at the moment for skiing or whatever. Let me give you the details. Here's my business card. Come book it with me. Talking the talk all the time about the brand, the travel business, and then you get into interiors and half the girls I speak to are terrified to even tell other people that they're doing interior design, whether it's study or a business that's if you won't shout out about your business. Who do you expect is going to do that? That's just going to shut down. Sorry, that's, back to your miniature science career. That's just science. It won't work if you can't shout out about it.

eliza: 45:59

Yeah, that was one of my biggest struggles in the very beginning as well is, Just telling people that you have a business because no, one's going to know that you have a business or you're an interior designer, unless you tell them.

rhiannon: 46:10

It's terrifying though. Like it's not, it is embarrassing. Cause you haven't you've got all this imposter syndrome. So you're like, I'm not telling the moms at school. I'm an interior designer, but why, what are they going to do? Slap you? Like they're probably just going to be like, Oh, wow. I love designer. what happens, all that actually happens is people immediately relate what you've said, interior design, to their experience of interior design, what they love about interior design, what they know about interior design, and then end the conversation. That's just, again, that self, everybody's just so self focused and wherever he is sweating bullets about saying, I am starting a business, people are like, oh, cool. Like they don't actually ask anything about it or how can I support that? Did you want, is there any way that I can help share the message of your business? They literally are just like, sounds good. Enjoy that. Yeah. For

eliza: 46:57

you, I'm not going to ask you how many clients

rhiannon: 46:59

you have ever, even when you have you're excited to share the number, then don't ask you. No one wants to know. You also, I just picked up on that. You mentioned people are watching. And like being around your brand before they're actually buying from you. And it's such an important message. I feel like I've shared a post on this before, but like your next client is always watching you. And you just don't know. So when you show up, as you mentioned, when you have to show up and you're like, it's crickets, nobody's watching. Somebody really cares about what you've got to say. And they are generally the person that pays the deposit. And sometimes I've had posts where I've been like, Oh, it didn't really perform the way I thought it would in terms of like shares, reach engagement, all that sort of stuff. I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's a bit embarrassing. If anyone can actually say that it's a really low engagement post, but from that post, three actual deposits have come through. So three people reach into my DMs and said, you're the right coach for me. I now want to do Bit more private coaching. I've got something I really like chunky. I need to break down and work with one on one that post was the, hit differently. It was just the click I needed to come and work with you. So for me, three actual profitable, tangible results is better than 300 likes and 3000 saves. It's a good reminder sometimes that it can look different and the journey is, people are watching, but. Each time they see something, they're falling a little bit more in love with your brand and who you are and what you offer, whether you know it or not.

eliza: 48:33

Creepy, huh? And it's definitely not about exactly a little bit creepy, but it makes sense. And it's definitely not about the number of followers or the engagement either, because I've gotten clients when I had 200 followers and I've gotten clients where I have, I think I've got five and a half thousand followers, which still isn't that many in the big scheme of things compared to some accounts. But. The right people are there watching. So as long as your content is aimed at your dream client and your ideal client, then they will be the ones to follow you. So it doesn't matter if it's 10, 000 people or if it's a hundred people, as long as it's the right people following you and buying from you, that's all that really matters in the end.

rhiannon: 49:14

Things used to look differently in the Instagram world and they don't anymore and I feel like anyone can buy followers. So those followers, you don't know anything about them. You land on people's pages and you're like, Oh, they've got 35, 000. They've got 350, 000 followers, whatever. Like all of that's available to you. If you want to just go and do something dodgy, like you totally can. And it's nonsense, but. If you think that's what validates you when people land on your page, I think that whole thing has shifted and people no longer are looking for you have to have, you don't get a swipe up button, nothing happens. You don't get a party. I can say over 10, 000, you do not get a party. And as someone like, I don't know what I have now, maybe 15, 000, it's not like 50, 000 It's actually, I find it more challenging to have a audience of that volume just because everything changed a lot. I felt after it clicked over to 10, you had to work really hard for the, not the algorithm, but like good content. It works regardless of the number that's attached to your follow count, but I do feel like there are other things getting on. I don't know, just feeling like the people who those 15, 000 people that do follow you. I feel like they don't get access to my content as much as I used to be when it was smaller. So when you have 3000. A percentage of that, I felt it was a bigger percentage of those 3000 saw the content and now I feel like you've been like penalized the higher you go to be like you only need a 3 percent conversion rate, we'll give it out to two or 3%. And if they love it, we'll stretch it a little bit more, but if they don't love it, but I'll try again tomorrow. And that's a whole piece of content that's been barely noticed or seen out there. It's a. Complaint, but it is a reminder not to put all of our marketing eggs in the Zuckerberg basket. Definitely. All right. So what are your goals for the future of Eliza Grace interiors? How are you working towards them? What's next for you?

eliza: 51:09

I've actually decided to do a little bit of a brand refresh that I'm working on at the moment. So I've had my current branding logo colors vibe since 2018 was the last time that I launched some new branding. So I think about six years is a good amount of time to re look at things, look at your website, look at your branding colors, aesthetics, see if it still goes with your vibe, because you obviously evolve as a person and your projects evolved. So just making sure that it still aligns with you and your business. Yeah, which is very exciting for me. So I'm just going for more. Refined aesthetic changing the colors up a little bit, but it's still going to be very reflective of my business and my previous kind of design, but just in a more mature and refined way. Oh, and then I'm also, I've decided this year to invest in my business as well. So I've signed on to a women's mastermind for the first six months of the year. So working with other women in business, and I think it's always good advice to let people know that it is important to invest in yourself and invest in the business. So whether that's as simple as buying a new book related to business development or doing coaching or signing on to a mentorship. I think it's really important to invest in that aspect as well. And then I did just want to put it out to the universe that I would love to open my own studio, whether that's at the end of this year, next year, don't have an exact timeframe at the moment, but that's something that I really want to work on when that's going to happen and the steps I need

rhiannon: 52:50

to get there. Amazing. So more like a shop front, like actually just having, yeah, so cool.

eliza: 52:56

Yeah. Cause I just work. In an office at home at the moment, so it'd be nice to have a front facing studio where my clients can come if they need to, but then it's also advertising as well in the local areas. So

rhiannon: 53:09

it's a really good thing to factor in and think about because we still have. There's so many benefits as somebody who has a studio, it's not street facing, but it is external to the home. And, it's full of beautiful samples and it's all designed how I want it. And it's so great, but it's such a benefit to a disconnect between my home life and my work life that I feel like if anyone can do that, if there's somewhere that you find that the rent is. Manageable that, it all goes through tax. You can sort it out. You can, have it so that you probably increase your, just foot traffic and knowledge of who you are in the local area and stuff increases. There's lots of benefits that it's definitely something exciting. So fingers crossed. I'm seeing that happen for you soon. The other thing I loved is, talking about investing in South It's a message you hear over and over. But I sometimes like, I like to put everything through a consumer filter, like as from the perspective of your client or whatnot. And when I think about investing in your business, I'm always like, as a consumer of knowledge of things that I need to run the best kind of in. Business that I can, you do get what you pay for. You can listen to this podcast, another podcast, 600 more podcasts than 6, 000 on top of that. But all you're actually getting is diluted messaging because you're hearing multiple people's. Interpretation of that particular strategy tool tactic, whatever it is, that's like you say, at the start, it's good. Just be a sponge, absorb it all, but then pick a lane, pick a person, lean into it, and you'll get the largest results, because I really feel when I've done things like that. Whether it's, masterminds weekend intensives, retreats things like that, or just even with my business coach, the stuff that we discuss together and the things that you're doing with in that private capacity or more focused capacity is actually about your business and your growth, not about the overarching goal. Suitable for everybody tools and tactics that you can do. As much as you like to bring so much value and share so many things in podcasts and other places. It becomes just such a cacophony of noise and information that you're like, okay, now I know too much, I'm going to do nothing. I don't know how to do something now that I know five different ways that it could be done. I just think I'll do none of the ways because it's too confusing now. And yeah, and it's

eliza: 55:31

such a generalized information. Sorry, it's generalized information. So when you do invest specifically with your business, then the information is going to be catered to you. Yeah.

rhiannon: 55:42

And you workshop the situations within that group or that. Mastermind where you're like X happened and I responded in Y and could I have done it better? And then there's five different people just really just looking at that individual circumstance instead of like when we're pricing our service, it's so overarching. Yeah. So it's really a good tip to do. And it doesn't always feel accessible to you in the early days. Certainly financially, it's a problem. But I guess I reflect back and I think Wasn't a problem in terms of if I knew how much money I was leaving on the table because I didn't have my pricing right. Or if I knew how many jobs I was doing, that was stressing me out to a way where I wanted to give up my business because I didn't know how to ask to do the jobs I wanted to do and how to say no to the ones I didn't. So I was like, okay, you're an incoming website inquiry. It's my responsibility to do the work. No, that you're missing a whole chunk in the middle where you qualify if you want to do the work. Yeah, so much out there that you can fast track past and not make those mistakes just by getting into it. So that's exciting. So that's the first half of this year.

eliza: 56:47

Yeah. So the branding refreshes first half of this year and then. The studio is still more of a long term goal. And the mastermind

rhiannon: 56:55

is at the beginning.

eliza: 56:57

Yes. That's the first half of this year.

rhiannon: 56:59

And was it, I've just randomly, was it you? I think it was you plus two others who reached out after I shared some new branding for Oleander and Finch this year to say our colors look similar. Yeah. Okay. I did think that. That nicely brings us back to the beginning. We are the same person, but different. We

eliza: 57:17

are the same person. And it's so funny because I think every color was pretty much the exact same, but the overall aesthetic and how we show it to the world is completely different. So yeah. Still on the same level though. A bit of a

rhiannon: 57:30

metaphor for the last six years or so. It's like it's the same thing but interpreted completely differently. I'll finish this up on that because I think that is plenty of advice for anyone really starting a business. And I will put some stuff in the show notes, how people can reach out to you because you mentioned you did a bit of mentoring and you do a bit of other stuff. So anyone listening along who might like to connect can find your details in our show notes. Yeah, I'll leave it there for you for today. Thanks so much. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks, Liza. Chat to you soon. Bye. Bye.

58:07

That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at oleander underscore and underscore finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www. oleanderandfinch. com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.