Designing Success

Georgia Ezra : Yes, You’ll Get Rejected: That’s a Good Thing for Your Growth

• rhiannon lee • Season 3 • Episode 134

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Speaker:

Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander and Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you could expect real talk with industry friends, community connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now, let's get designing your own success.

Speaker 5:

Have such an enormous treat for you all today. I interviewed a few months ago, Georgia Ezra from Tiles of Ezra and from Studio Ezra and from all the different businesses, and she just has such a gorgeous way of thinking about things, and I really enjoyed our chat and as much as I enjoyed just chatting with her and talking about all things, business and. Failures and attempts and all the things that come along with running a business. I also just know when somebody has been in and around the industry for a really long time, but also they've tried a bunch of different things or they've had their hand in multiple businesses as Georgia has, and they've been on television and in print media, in keynote speaking, and all the things that many of us aspire to do or be. You just get such a rich. Generous output where you feel like, oh gosh, I'm so glad I was a fly on the wall for that conversation. So I really hope you're gonna love it. I know that you will, and if you want to connect with Georgia, you can find all of the details in my show notes. I'm not gonna take up any more of your time because I wanna get stuck straight in. What a great chat.

Speaker 3:

I just feel as though you have so much to share in that world running how many businesses? Really two.

Speaker 4:

I'm like majorly focusing on one this year. Good. Normally it's two to three.

Speaker 3:

I know. I was like, how many do you actually, yeah. It, how many can one person actually do at any given time and throw in some podcasts, some tv and there's a lot going on and a puppy. Of course. Course. Yeah. No, and I

Speaker 4:

think it's like a very va I think this can be just like, it can be a topic of discussion. Like our plates and how cool are as creatives.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. So do you have any specific coping mechanisms to deal with that? It's a lot. I imagine you have people coming from every direction for both businesses specifically, what gets you through, how do you manage it all?

Speaker 4:

Okay. So first and foremost, as a creative, I think that we all share the common personality traits of wanting to do everything and do it yesterday. Like we, that's the beauty of being a creative week, are constantly creating ideas of things that. Speak to us or that we want to see through visually, business-wise, all of these different layers are running at full force at any one time. And I think that I fully embody that too. And there have been many times where it's bitter me in the ass, like doing way too many things because when I go in, I don't go in slightly, I go in. Fully, like I lean in hard and then something has to give. So I think what I've learned lately is really I think I give everything like a lot of time before I. Dive deep and I really sit with things sometimes for two to three years now. There's one business venture that I have prototyped, like the products are ready, the manufacturing's ready, the branding's ready, everything it be, would be ready to go to pour into e-commerce website, full strategy, like all of that distribution internationally, local distribution nationwide, the pla I know exactly what I need to do. It's just sitting there. Because something inside me right now says, I, Georgia, Ezra, I'm not ready for this. I'm not ready to pour my heart and soul into this because I need to still be pouring my heart and soul into like other things that I'm working on before I strip myself away. And I think that's been something that, for me as an individual who. Can actually pour a lot on her plate has been almost like an art that I'm trying to. Work on for me personally, like not to have so many things on my plate and to slow down and to work heavily on one thing at a time. With regard to like, how do I manage and cope with those things, I. I'm really trying to not be in that situation. I'm trying to strip back and focus like really well on one thing as opposed to knowing that I can do it all and then caving in at some point. Yeah. At what cost? Yeah, totally. At because, and in the past I've done so many things at one time, and I think because I have always been very capable to do many things at once. Ultimately everything suffered, like nothing has been done and or everything's been done amazingly, but like the marketing hasn't, like I'll launch, I'll self launch a book like that. I've written like a full on book, but then I won't, there won't be a launch party. There won't I won't, I'll be like, okay, next. I did that tip instead of doing one thing really well in the year and then like fully leaning in and celebrating that one thing. Immensely which I think is the way to go.

Speaker 3:

I love that. It's so much like self curation, but also from a design perspective. We're always what makes a design different from a DIY is the negative space and it is the selections and the decisions that are made, and it's. It's not all things all the time. We do actually curate so carefully in order to do that, that we forget to do that within our own Yeah. Strategy and our own business goals and all the things. And just as you say that entrepreneurial spirit will always be like, yep, done next. Yep, done. And I love totally hearing that because it's so important to sometimes go, how, what could it look like if it was really easy and what would it look like if I gave it? All of me, not just the bits where I was excited and then moved on.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I think like in terms of. Our lives in general, we are so dwarfed and surrounded by seeing everything that everyone's doing all the time and the best bits of everyone. And you know how successful everyone around us is in the sense that like they're living out certain dreams that we might have. Okay. I am just like talking in general. And so then we go on this crazy. Rampage of wanting to do everything because we have so many ideas and exciting things that we wanna do, but our lives. It doesn't mean that we have to do it all at once. Like those things can come in at different times in our lives. There, there have been many occurrences where I'm like, oh my God, I always wanna do that. And now it's making sense, like it's happening now in that way, in a way that like, I didn't curate it, it just happened to me, but it was a dream of mine like 12 years ago. But also I always say to friends that I'm talking to or colleagues like to work backwards, it's something that I've. That I've touched on just before, but, what is the life that you wanna have? Do you want to be running a business with 20 staff or do you wanna be sole trader where you go on holidays and your work can stop for that three week period? What is the life that you want? And then work backwards from that and really focus intensely on the thing that brings you the most joy. There's a lot of layers to this, but I do think that. Starting from a point of what you want your daily life and your weeks to look like, and then working back from that is always a great starting point for creatives like us who from Inception and Birth of Idea, just wanna do everything, but everything is so taxing,

Speaker 3:

I love that so much. I also like the idea of recognizing the lifespan of a business because I speak to so many business owners and just as you say, all the things all at once in the first year, gotta do that. Write a book, do a thing. It's actually, if you are creating a successful business, you are also creating longevity and you have time. Just as you say, you've got something that's ready to go when you, whenever you pull the trigger to go out there and execute. And that might not be this year, and if it's 20. Late 2026 into 2027, being able to make that plan and not feel that almost scarcity vibes of my business might not be this. I've gotta get it out now, I had a big conversation with a group of students only last week around how first to market isn't always best to market. And sometimes we say things. Where people have held back rather than get competitive in the space that's I created it or I made it up. They've held back and watched and learned from their competitors where, and AI isn't a great example of this, where Open AI came out, chat GBT, but then Claude and Gemini and some of the others, they hold on a little bit, tweak it a little bit, find out what the users do and don't like about the major competitor, and then they've come to market with something. Possibly a better solution. I'm not gonna say what my opinion is, like whatever, try them all. But you can see in that instance it's not a rush to get something out and therefore produce something that doesn't align with the quality levels. It's very clear to me as a huge fan of Tazo, Vera and I have all the samples and I've specified them before and it's quite an easy sell to clients to level up to that. Differentiation in the market and to actually be able to say of course everybody can quickly come out and have carbon copies of the same type of business, but you've got a real standout in the market by being able to talk about the artisanship and talk about where it's from and sustainability and just. Everything that kind of aligns with the brand, that makes it easier for us to get our clients on board because it is something a bit special and a bit different. And I think we can sometimes lose sight of that in the rush. As you said before, the cacophony of noise on Instagram is just, she's doing that and they're doing that and that's happening and we have this over exposure to that now, just possibly through our own fault of scrolling or, getting onto those apps all the time as a consumer, but inside of your own industry I can't think of a lot of other examples. A hairdresser doesn't come home at night and necessarily look at makeovers and haircuts, and I feel like they disconnect a bit, but we have such a strong passion for what's new, what's trending, what's happening. I don't know. I feel like there can be a consumption level that doesn't align with. Creativity sometimes.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. And I think such an interesting such interesting points that you raise because when, like first and foremost, I'm an interior architect. I studied interior architecture at UNSW. I came out after four years and I wanted to be an interior designer. I worked in the interior architecture industry and I still am an interior architect and I still design, homes and spaces. And so when Tiles of Ezra Born was born, it wa I was never it was never with the mindset that I wanted to have a tile company. I still don't, it's a tile company, but I still don't view it as a tile company. I still view it as like a curation of artisan products that celebrates sustainability in their own form specifically in the sustainability of craft from that area that I'm working with of artisans. When I started Tiles of Ezra, I was looking for product to facilitate my own aesthetic, which I could not find in Australia. They like thing, products existed globally, but Australia was like a very bland offering in terms of the finishes in the tile industry, and I wasn't able to find that product. And I feel like as a designer. That's where I was able to capitalize on my skillset in curating ranges that spoke to me. And when it comes to, when you were talking about like social media and all the different businesses having, blasting things out there in comparison, everything I've always had, like my blinkers on, it's always been a horse in my own race. It's not a race. I'm here to design rangers, to offer to general public trade architects, developers who to elevate, essentially provide them product to elevate their own interiors. That is my number one goal and specifically speaking this year, I'm not taking on any interior projects, so my creative outlet is designing ranges for the end user to further elevate their interiors. Like I'm enabling, or I'm trying to pour all my creative energy into the outcome of interiors through the products that I design. And. I think that has always been part of our strength that we've never been responding to trends or what other people sell or having that wide variety. It's always been a curation of product lines. That and designs that a, like this is always the criteria. Is it 100% handmade off from the earth? And B, would I put it in my own home? So if I wouldn't put it in my own home, it doesn't make it on the website. It's not in our range. And so you have a very strong curation of product line. And so it's in the end of the day, our business TAs Vera is not about. Meeting everyone's yearnings and wants. It's about meeting a group of people's wants and needs and that, people will come to TAs of Vera for a specific curation range and look, and they won't come to TAs of Vera if they don't like that curation. And look, and I'm okay with that. I'm not trying to compete. With anyone else, but it has to feel right for me. I'm a designer. I'm not here to have a mass selling, tile business that has porcelain and this and dah. That's not, I've never set out for that and I'll never become that. I think having those blinkers on has worked in our favor and it has been one of the most leading reasons that we have such a strong. Curation of products, like all of our product lines, no matter whether it's a hand painted tile by hand in Vietnam or it's a Moroccan limestone with hand tumble like hand E edges, carved edges, they will go together. Like all the lines fit beautifully together. And you can see them all work so beautifully together in one space. So that has been something that's been very true. And a very strong guideline for me specifically as the creative director of the business.

Speaker 3:

That's good news for us that's where your attention's going into new lines and all of those things. I just love the ability to look for a more global aesthetic and not just, as you say, like just look at the same things. White labeled under all the different brands. They're basically all the same suppliers. They've just got a different name or code or, it's quite nice to know that there's somewhere you can go when you are looking for that edge. Given your focus on culturally rich designs, just as you mentioned, how is it that you go about ensuring you stay respectful to those cultures and the origins whilst, being contemporary, bringing it all to a totally different culture? Have you got, have you learned a lot of things over the way or have you had to put things into place?'cause it, travel in general can pop up with all sorts of surprises.

Speaker 4:

So we work a lot with Morocco and I think in the end of the day. They're just so ex like our team, which we've curated over a period of 12 years who's our exclusive manufacturing team like globally. They are, we are just like such a strong family. We are honoring the art form and we're like staying true to the craft. It's a 13th century age old craft. They can't work out if it started in the south of Spain or the north of Morocco. But it is a dying trade, as generations. Tick out, tick over. And we, time ticks on less and less younger gen. The younger generation don't necessarily want to be hand manufacturing the le I feel really proud that I'm a part of bringing this art form to a larger scale. In the quality that we continue to deliver. Because I think there's a real misconception when, firstly when you see the word Zale, it's just I don't even know how companies can just use it. And they're producing a machine made Zale copy in China, and then they call it, there's Zise range. Zise is an art form that is. 100% handmade in Morocco. Now underneath that o umbrella of Zale. But by the way, I don't even think I'm answering your question, but I'm just gonna talk. I'm so

Speaker 3:

curious. I'm so into it anyway.

Speaker 4:

I'm like, so interesting.

Speaker 3:

Go.

Speaker 4:

Underneath that umbrella of Zale is. Quality. Where is the clay from? Is it a grade clay? How have they beaten all the bubbles out of the clay? Have they cut the clay in a way that is authentic? Does the leisure, is it machine cut? How is the glaze applied? Is the glaze gonna start rubbing off in your shower and fall off? That's actually, we've, I've seen it like number of times, like people come to me all the time'cause they buy zale and then they like, think they're getting thele, like inverted commas. Like it's a. Thing, but it's not a thing each. Manufacturing facility is like completely different to the next, it's literally like you making green curry versus me making green curry. And it comes down to how well people are paid their working conditions, where the clay is from. Are there bubbles in the clay? How is the glaze applied? What is the kiln? Is it like what type of kiln? How, even the mosaics like. How well they're cut are, they apply. There's such a layering of our manufacturing that will show the difference between good quality and bad quality. And all you have to do is zoom in and look on, other pe do a comparison. Yeah. And basically in looking at are there bubbles on the surface? Are there chips? Like, all those different things. These, some of these things are inherent qualities of Zale, but. You have to do slightly. There's like a it's like we have a serious QC operation on ground in Morocco. That, I'm very proud to say I would only deliver what I would expect to receive as an end user. But back to your question about cultural differences and all of that stuff we are very close with our teams. We have we have multiple manufacturers in Morocco that we work with exclusively, but two main art forms that we that we produce and our teams are like our family. We pay for the schooling education of 82 families across Morocco. So no matter how many kids they have, their school is covered. That's just a foundation that we. Do that we wanna give back. Morocco is a third world country that is one way that we felt like we could make some social impact. And it's a very well received and beautiful initiative that we're very proud of. But yeah, like I think in the end of the day. We're inspired by their art form and then the curation of colors and the new color tones that we hand mix with them is just furthering that and making it more desirable by, for, by our clients. We were given a color just last week by client in the us. And he is can you please match this? So we've had color swatches and we're gonna try and match it and hand, mix that color and see if we can, because that client really wants to sell that color. You've got to move and flow. And I think one of the things that made our brand really exponentially grow, especially in the United States, is that when we entered the market of. Les Mosaics. Typically the mosaics were very bright colored, bright reds, bright greens, blue, not its tones and

Speaker 3:

beautiful. And yeah. And

Speaker 4:

I was like, I just wouldn't, I love these patterns, but I just would never put those colorways in my home. So I was mixing up new colorways, Moroccan pink, duck egg, blue mosque, green avocado, like these were colors that I was started putting together. Latte clay. Really subdued colors so you could bring color into your home and feel like it's still neutral, but it's still a point of difference. And that was really well received. People were very excited about that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because I think you think about traveling to Morocco and you think about other colors and the spices and the movement and the smells, and and you do often. Immediately when you think of those patterns and those tiles, you think of a lot of primary colors. You think of a lot of just like saturation in here, like very bright, bold, and again, yeah, I wouldn't put that in my home, but I just love that because it is exactly finding that gap in the market that does remain culturally sensitive to the manufacturing, the process. Nothing changes there. You haven't gone in and been like, we'll take that now over to this factory and No, not, it's not made in Romania or somewhere weird like I love. That did answer my question because it talks about, recognizing the need for, respecting the culture and getting in and learning from them. And it's interesting that you say, the next generation coming through they wanna have that heavy reliance on that handcrafted or artisan behaviors. I feel like the same thing of this generation, like the next generation to come through. It's they've got everything at their fingertips with AI and Google and other things. Like how do we get them to slow down and do, like a lot of jobs are going to become. Redundant in, in our culture as well. So it is such an interesting future, and,

Speaker 4:

yeah, it's so interesting because when I started Tales of Ezra and I was, it was over like 11, 12 years ago, I remember, you are faced, working with Morocco is not easy. No one that works with Morocco says that it's. An easy feat. There are it's, it, there are complexities to manufacturing in Morocco. And I remember when I was talking about them with colleagues or family members, they were like, why don't you just do it in China? And I was so insistent I would never do that. Like never, not about China. I think there's great manufacturing in China. It's a obviously, clearly it's, they manufacture well, but I was never about taking. An art form that I always wanted to be authentic. Yeah. And sustaining the craft of where things were made. That is something that I've always been very passionate about. And I will not sacrifice that, those ethics and those values in the business. That always comes. Number one, sustaining the craft is I. With the original manufacturers and the art form artists of that form is the number one.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And I think that comes through, you talked before about this sort of end user experience and the people that are seeking out your product they get to get an understanding of the ethos of the business. And like it doesn't take long for you to recognize that's the behaviors in the backend. And that's why, if there may be a premium. Difference in pricing or other things, it's because people are being fairly rewarded for their efforts and things are going on throughout the process. That means it's not just another spit it out, be able to keep it at that. For one of another example that sort of Kmart constant sort of cycle of just taking designs and being able to replicate them instead of respect them. I have been speaking lately to quite a few designers and people in business in general, and something that keeps coming up is their complete fear of when things go wrong, massive mistakes, financial mistakes, problems, issues. And I think in order to grow as a business owner, you have to go through these hiccups and you have to learn and get onto the other side. Side, is there something you can share about your business that hasn't gone, hasn't panned out the way you thought it would, or you've tried something and it's been a bit of an epic flop and you've moved on to something else?

Speaker 4:

I think part and parcel of owning a business is that like you fail and then you step up and you try again, and then you fail and you step up or you get rejected. Someone doesn't believe in you, someone tells you'll never get that. There have been multiple times that I've been told like. You won't get that. You won't do that. And I think that fuels my fire. I, I'm not one to sit and stew on the negative. I'm a very optimistic individual and I am about proving people wrong. So you tell me I can't do it. Watch me go. Yes. It's like the fire in me, like whether it's. Someone in my family's insecurity and they like fear and they don't want me to feel, bad if it doesn't happen, or if I pitch at a, I don't know. I'm like, I don't, I can't even think of an exact example. But if I pitch at something and I never hear from them, give you one, maybe one example. Many years ago I was approached to film a TV show in Australia with zero, I'd never had TV experience, and I rocked up and it was an epic failure. I like literally stood in front of the camera and I couldn't even. Together. It was so bad. But it was the start of me realizing that I wanted to be in front of a camera. I wanted to be in front of an audience in some way, shape or form. I knew in my gut feeling I was meant to be in front of some form of audience, whether it was to inspire or like whatever it was. And I remember speaking to the producer at the time and. He was like, listen, it's you are not getting the gig. He's but keep practicing. Keep practicing. So I would go on, if it was like my honeymoon and we were in Central South America, I'd like force Richie my husband to film me and I'd be like, we are here in Guatemala, and I'd like just. Forced myself to be so uncomfortable and like film. And then I'd edit the videos and they were horrendous. Like I look back at them and I just like laugh. I think it's so funny. But that was honestly the tenacity in me to do the work behind the scenes to get myself to a point that was like really comfortable. Then I just, it, it was like went over my head. I'm like, like I did for years. I didn't even think about it. It wasn't anything. And within a two month period, I had three producers reach out to me, two from Australia and one from the US wanting me to sign a deal on a TV show. So I always say if things are meant to happen, they're meant to happen. I think you cannot ever take someone else's opinion of you as the bottom line. Truth. If you believe something in yourself and you wanna go somewhere, it literally comes down to you and your tenacity, your resourcefulness, your strength, you to keep coming, getting up and going forward. So I think in terms of I. The rejection side of things, I'm still rejected all the time. By the way, all the time. I will send jobs to different magazines and I'm rejected all the time. Whether it's a no response or no. And that's fine. That's absolutely fine. I think the right things come at the right places. In terms of lessons, I think that. Because when I started my business I was like very young and I didn't realize what it would become. I was naive, so I'm like, like I'm big on telling people to put contracts in place. Contracts. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Very good advice. Yeah, I think that, in the end of the day, contracts are never there. When things are going well, they're there for when things are not going well, and they will protect all parties, and I think it's very good, whether employing or having a client in the interior design world or whatever it is, having a very clear set of boundaries in front of everyone. Allows things not to get blurred, sets up boundaries that you both know you are working towards. And even now I'm still establishing my own boundaries in life, in work in so many areas. So I think those would probably be my two. I could talk for hours about this topic, but I would be, those are my two top surface thoughts.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I love that though, because it is like tenacity. Whenever you talk to people who have seen great success, it's always determination, resilience, tenacity. It's like a trifecta. Like it's always just going Okay. Yeah, as you say, what's right for you won't pass you by, but it might not be right now. It might be another time. And I just really like the advice of Embody like doing the work, but just being like. Pushing yourself, trying learning to stand in front of the camera. There's no use to saying it's not the right fit or it's not the right opportunity or time now and not doing this self-assessment that even if it comes back up in three years, if I don't practice right now, I still can't stand in front of the camera and deliver. So you can't just wait for it to come swinging around again in three and then 10 years and not do anything in between. So I just love that message because it was all of that. Wearing Guatemala, like getting in front of the camera. That will have helped you to now have this TV series. And yeah, I just think how is it going? Is it, has it launched the TV series in the us? Oh,

Speaker 4:

this yeah, it aired in America. It was it there's two seasons. Yeah. It's on Magno Network Discovery Plus and HBO Max or Max. Streaming on Max. But it was also on Qantas for six months and it was on Singapore Airlines. I'm not sure if it's still on Singapore Airlines. And hopefully it will come to Australia because I think it's fully filmed all across Victoria and I just think Australians deserve to see the show. It's really fun. Sorry, I wanna go back on what you were saying. Another thing that I think is really important is we, so we're all so insecure with rejection. We're so fearful of it that we don't even allow ourselves to be rejected. Yeah. So there have been a myriad. Situations where things that have played out would not have happened in my life if I did not email and put myself out there. If you want something, put yourself out there. Who cares? If you get rejected, you just care. I've emailed people and then a year later I'm like, they didn't respond. I'm going to email them back. That's rude. I'm like, like I, but like I have a book deal now that's coming out in 2026 because I emailed, they didn't email me. I. Pitched myself. We, everything when it comes to whether it's something in your business or your own. Yearning to do something passionate. We all have to sell ourselves. When someone's looking for a job, they've gotta sell themselves to the HR department. When you wanna find a new distribution partner, you've gotta sell yourself to that distribution partner and explain to them why. This relationship is gonna better them. When you pitch yourself to a publishing company, why do they or should they want to publish a book that you produce? And so it's really a skill to talk about what others are gonna benefit out of it rather than yourself. Even though in the end of the day it's, you are the reason you wanna go there and do these things, but. I think people are so afraid to be rejected that they don't put themselves out there. And there have been plenty times where my husband's been like, don't email them. They won't. And then I'm like, watch, shush. Now I'm doing it. I'm like, oh my God, watch me now because you just said that. And then like literally boom. TV show. Like it's so crazy. I just think that, you've gotta ask. You have to ask. If you don't ask, and you don't put yourself out there, you will never get those opportunities.

Speaker 3:

And yeah, they don't often come to you. Like it's a misconception that you can just sit around in your design studio and all of a sudden everything's coming to you. And I think, it is that nothing ventured, nothing gained. And even something as simple as like podcast guests. Podcast guests for me. Like I'll pitch the ones that I think are suitable for my audience, but at the same time, I will troll through who has pitched onto the podcast, and I cannot tell you how many of them start with Hi Oleander instead of Rhiannon, and then a huge blurb about the what's in it for them. And then so let me know. Yeah. And I feel like, oh, what I really wanna let you know is like a little lesson on how we. Show that you understand the brand, show that you understand what you're pitching for and how you are a good fit and how it will benefit the host. Not so much like you. And just a little lesson, like if you'd put that whole thing into chat tip PT and said, flip the perspective, it would've been a perfect pitch and you could've given it to me and I would've been like, yeah, great. What time are you available? Let's get you on the podcast. That sounds like a great fit for my audience, but the audience is not considered in that pitch. It's all about I've been thinking it's time for me to go on podcasts.

Speaker 4:

Because they actually add that my problem. Yeah, the audience is the most important part, actually. Yeah. Because they're gaining access to the audience that they're listening to. So what are they offering that the audience they're gonna take home with that's gonna change their lives? What's something that they're gonna hold onto? What can you offer you? What can they offer you? And I know we're going a little bit off course on what we're talking about, but this is the fun. This is the magic. Yeah. But, when I have spoken to students at university, I'm so big on this, I'm like, if you wanna get a job, you need to focus your attention on your skills and what you have to offer. Everyone has such unique skills. How, what are you gonna do to contribute to that business that's gonna make the manager's life easier or the CEO's life easier? How are you going to use those skills to better the business? Because I always see, when you own a company. You have employees and you have the company, and I'm always saying that relationship between the two is such a, mutually beneficial relationship. The company gives you opportunity and a pay and the business and the employee gives 200% back. So we all, we give each other 200%. We are investing like simultaneously. Together, we are growing together. And that period of time in someone's life. Is valuable to the growth of who they are as a person. The relationships they form, cultural learnings, opportunity, and their own, job, like their own employment learnings. So it's a propeller to the next stage in their life. And so I always say give me 200% and I'll give you 200% back. Yeah. Like I will give you a platform where you can grow. I wanna, meet your personal goals. I wanna meet your business goals, and I think that it's like such a valuable thing in life, we, everyone, we all need to give and get. It's not just one person gives. So I do think that this is a very important topic with regard to anyone listening. Yeah. And I'm constantly trying to better myself in terms of sales when I'm pitching or talking to if individuals and what I can offer for them. And of course it's in the end of the day, it's for the growth of the business, right? Yeah. Like ultimately I'm gonna reap the benefits of. Selling something, but really only when I know that I can truly provide that value, would I pitch it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And that collaboration piece has to be mutual. Just exactly what you explained. And I feel like I would love to be pitched in a way that says, this is the sort of education I wanna bring to your broader audience. I recognize who your audience. Are, they're emerging and established designers, generally business owners. This is what I bring, that just answers all the questions for me. As long as you recognize that my audience is the most important part of my podcast, it's not my ego or my things, I don't just need to have a conversation, I'll just call a friend. That's something I can do any old time. Yeah, I just think it's really interesting and we spoke about that, like nothing venture, nothing game, but. So many people are so holding themselves back, they've got so much more to give in terms of impact and the things that they can do purely because of that rejection piece and that fear around. But what if they do, but I being wrong? Yeah. What if they say no, but what if they say yes?

Speaker 4:

Totally. And I, and like I suffer from that all the time. We all do, right? Yeah. But I just refuse to let it control my decision making. I literally just wa watched a real. About this. He, this guy said something along the lines of if we want people to have successful businesses and lives, don't send them to school because we are raised to not want to fail. And that goes hand in hand with not wanting to be rejected. And I think that. I try my best to celebrate, like what went wrong this week with my kids. I'm always like, what went wrong? What did you like? What's something that went epically? That was an epic failure? And what did you learn from it? And I talk about what things that didn't go in my, to my advantage. I don't talk about it, not I'm reminding myself I need to start again. But it's hard to be brave

Speaker 3:

and bold if you won't take a risk though. Like in, especially like we're trying to talk to our, our clients and whatnot about trusting and doing things, and it's like you sometimes do need to do that. Hold the mirror up to yourself and be like hang on. How am I embodying this? How am I living this message if I won't take a risk or won't go outside the lines or won't think about putting myself out there because. The if you sit as a devil's advocate to the very worst case scenario, it's exactly what you explained most of the time. It's just ghosting. The worst case scenario is usually just that you don't hear anything. No one, no

Speaker 4:

news is good news. No one's oh, like she's pitched that cute. No one even, no one ever, it doesn't meet. It doesn't meet my agenda right now. And half the time when things align, it's just because it meets the agenda in that moment. It's like a divine timing. One more thing I think that's really important on this, like front is just being really clear and sure about what you want, one of the things that I've always dreamed of and felt that I'd be very good at is keynote speaking, public speaking. And I haven't invested enough like energy or time to get those opportunities. I've pub, I've spoken publicly and been on panels maybe three or four times, but recently I was asked to be a keynote speaker at an event in the us. It was a paid event and I was flown out to the US all. Expenses paid for, and that was such a pinch me moment because for years I have dreams about. Being paid to keynote speak, to have that as part of, my job description and an offering and something that I can earn off. And it was like the first one and it was just, it was unbelievable. And now I. I am out there, I'm gonna be pitching to keynote speak, even if it's not paid for, because I need practice. I wanna get out there. I wanna have a portfolio of people that I've spoken for, spoken, for their events that they can say she was great. She added value and I'm okay to do that free of charge, right? Because I'm gaining out of it and I'm practicing. But now I have a clear goal over the next two years of what I wanna focus on. And in two years maybe it's something that. Happens multiple times a year, but it is a paid offering. Totally. As opposed to wanting to be paid straight away and putting all my eggs in one basket and then being so upset if it does, if it's not met with a yes. You've gotta have something to prove before you offer that to someone else.

Speaker 3:

Also in what you were saying, be careful what you wish for as well. Because I feel like there are people who just add keynote speaker to the bottom, like a resume or I could do mentorship, I can do this, I can do that. And keynote speaking. But then it's okay, if you haven't done what you're talking about, which is go and do some free events, or go and do some, practice what you're preaching and go and do many of the things. If you haven't done Toastmasters, if you don't, if you don't even like public speaking, don't put keynote speaker on the bottom of your website. Like just leave it off. Have a think about whether that's what you truly want. I think there is a lot of additions. Again, right back to the beginning of our conversation, all the shiny objects, all the different things. You end up adding a bunch of stuff to the menu or library of things that you could possibly offer the world. But if it isn't truly what's gonna light you up, it's just as easy to leave it off. Like it's fun, right? Beautiful. I've, we've gotten heaps of it, but I'm gonna finish up with some advice for people entering the industry things. I guess I just wanted to talk about the misconceptions and correct. Whatever, like the sorts of ways that people see the interior design industry. Do you have any advice for getting into that world?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I think that when you enter the interior design industry, like as an interior designer, you're not doing it for the money, you're doing it for the passion. I think, sorry to put it bluntly, it's a creative, passionate role and it is. Like hard work. So your passion is driving your energy. And I think that whilst there is so much of a creative outlet to interior design, like I feel so creative when I'm designing a home, but there's like probably 15% of it, like 10 to 15 max is creative and 85% of it is. Technical documentation, trying to structurally make things work, trying to project manage, trying to fit into clients' budgets. Trying to be a psychologist between partners, like it is not all creative. And even when it, you are in that creative. Part, it's short-lived because a client might not like what you've put forward or you're trying to push their boundary and it's just met with resistance. Or you put together an amazing furnishing schedule. You it's outside their budget. So you've always, it's. Interior design is never like I design and it gets made, like it is a myriad of cu of levels of curation, of things, financial furnishings emotional, like by the end of the product, there's so much that's being stripped out and there's so much intention that was wanting to be there in the beginning that can't be there at the end. At no fault of your own, other than the fact that this is what interior design is, it's a client and a designer coming together to curate the best end result for that client. Yeah, it's, and that client's brief.

Speaker 3:

You don't get to detect depict brief or budget, and it's such a big. That I think not enough people talk about. It's like you're just at the mercy of the inquiry that comes in. Like you obviously get to choose. Do you take it? Do you not take it? But it's very rare that you're told, I've got no budget and no input.

Speaker 4:

No. And then even if you, yeah, like I'm like thinking about the TV show, like even when you have, they've got no major input and like a smallish budget. You'd think that would be like great full creative freedom, but no, because then there's like suppliers, like there's there's a myriad of layers involved with the designing a home. And I'm, I don't say this in the sense that it's not such a wonderful job like. If I could say one of the things that brings me the greatest happiness, it's designing a home like what keeps bringing me back is the design in my head on paper. And then walking into the space come on, is there a better feeling than bringing alive an idea in your mind? And it's just such a special feeling that I feel as a designer, we get the honor in living out for our clients and being a part of for our clients. And that will never stop for me. Yeah. I think that it's such a blessed job, but it doesn't come without a lot of hard work and low pay. That's just something that needs to be known.

Speaker 3:

I love that though, because I think what I see is that there's a perception that I'm gonna leave my corporate job and within nine months I'm gonna have wage parity with that job. If I work hard, I'm gonna come in and it's gonna be like, oh yeah, I understand there'll be six to nine months where I might not have clients. But then you're expecting to be able to replace your corporate salary. With your interior designer salary, and that comes with a lot of experience and demand and, maybe your niche doesn't actually attract those high-end designer fees. I don't know that everyone's business is so different and I think it's really important to have those. Transparent conversations about you should be here for that dopamine hit that you talked about and that fix of just being like, I'm here for the transformation. And then you'll be able to also reverse engineer and sell the marketing side of things to show people what you do more than just looking at how many clients do I need to get this Much like the money side of stuff. And that's where it start. Like

Speaker 4:

that's where. I think when you get to a point where you've got staff and you've got mouths to feed, that's when the pressure is on. And the artistry and the passion is, it can get stripped out. It's a tricky one. Yeah. I want people scale up and scale down all the time. To Totally. And I think that when I say that it's not as you said, like you can absolutely make good money if that was your desire from being an interior designer. But as you said, like coming into it from like advising people from the start, like from the grounds up, it is not a high earning wage, especially if you're working for others. But it's a very

Speaker 3:

rewarding job.

Speaker 4:

And which is why I

Speaker 3:

feel like the money is the gravy. It's if you do this, it, this part so well and you love it.

Speaker 4:

Yes. It was never a goal of mine ever. I worked, my first two years of working in the industry, I started on 35,000 including super. And I worked my way up to 45 and I was like so proud and I know that times have changed. Yeah. However. That it's still relative to the industry. Yeah. That I, and I think I think anyone leaving corporate to do interior design is probably so happy because it's just such a wonderful job that like, the money is the side part,

Speaker 3:

as you said, the gravy. And when you come at it from that perspective, you're often like, Hey, I'll work 35 hours less a week, even running my own business than I might've been for somebody else. For, and you might get that CEO or senior leadership corresponding paycheck, but at the end of the day you're like a living zombie, right? You're not fulfilled, you're not creative, you don't love it. For many people it's not what lights them up. So when I see that secondary career change, you can just see like the light and people's eyes come back as well because the things that they get to do are exactly as you described them. They like give you fuel all of your passions and allow you all of that sort of. Sense of joy.

Speaker 4:

Especially if you are a creative in a corporate role. Because many people are in a corporate role. Love that. Corporate role. Yeah. Oh yeah. Go for it. But if you are creative and you're feeling trapped, then interior design is like a beautiful place to be.

Speaker 3:

So if you're listening to this and you spend every lunch break outside, putting your feet in the grass and crying, wishing that you could just like spatially design things, come over and learn, it's fine. It's a great place to be. Totally. I'm gonna wrap it up there. Thank you, Georgia. That was amazing. I feel like I need to get you back on the podcast another time to have an entirely different conversation. You have so many different arms of what you are involved in, and I wish you all the best this year just trying to squirrel down to that one thing, and I look forward to seeing all the new ranges that you release.

Speaker 4:

Thank you so much. Bye for now.

Bye.

Speaker 6:

How good was that? I loved that chat. That was so much fun. I really enjoyed connecting with Georgia and I just could have talked to her for hours. Like I always get that sense when I'm listening to a podcast, when two people are just gelling and there's just so much more about business and we could have talked forever. If you enjoyed today's podcast episode, please share it tag myself tag Studio Ezra tag the world. And most importantly, please tell a friend or jump on and give the podcast a review. It means so much. It's one of those things I absolutely hate ending every single episode with Please, can you come and tell me what you think? But I do read every single one of your reviews and they just mean so much to me because I know they facilitate Apple or Spotify or some of the other podcast players actually going, oh, this podcast is getting noticed. We'll push it out to more people. And that's all I can ask for. All right. I will see you next week in a solo episode. And if you need anything between now and then, drop into my dms over at Oleander at Go and underscore Finch and I'll chat to you then. Okay. Bye for now.

Speaker 2:

That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you've found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers. Just like you for your daily dose of design business tips, and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at Oleander and Finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www.oleanderandfinch.com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.

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Rhiannon Lee

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