From Framework to the French Rivera (with a side serve of Dubai Development)

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Transcript

0:29

Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander and Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you could expect real talk with industry friends, community connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now, let's get designing your own success. My guest on today's podcast was such a pleasure to have a conversation at last. I enjoyed editing this almost as much as I enjoyed the original conversation. Having this conversation meant so much to me. I've loved watching this X framework absolutely flourish, watching her confidence levels, watching her. Take on the world. I've heard about her work with developers in Dubai, styling in RA Pei, and so much more. I've been following along very keenly, and so I reached out to her and asked her to come and chat to me about everything that's happened, And it's actually really good timing because today is the very last day that I'm taking an intake of new frameworks or new emerging designers that I will help support to have a career like Harriet's. If I haven't said before, I'm chatting to Hattie or Harriet from Hattie Interiors. If you don't follow her, jump to the show notes. You're gonna wanna watch this. You should see, oh my God, the opulence and the luxury of the designs. That she's pulling together are incredible. It's such good timing that I was able to bring this podcast because I think you can really get a sense of how well we get to know each other, how well we get to work. With each other, how well the framework supports people for all sorts of journeys, including one as inspirational as this one. And today is the very last day that you can join. If you want lifetime access, you better get your skates on. Get in, get involved. Join the group that I currently have. We're gonna work together for the next 12 months. And if it gets to midnight, and you have not said yes to yourself and yes to your development. There's not ever going to be another time to join, so I'm not gonna hop on about that too much'cause I'll just age my podcast'cause you might be listening to this in six months time. But I will say stick around for this interview. It's got to be one of my absolute favorites. I think that my listeners will really benefit from seeing what's possible. Hearing about your journey. Where you are, where you started, what you've done. I think it's very inspirational and aspirational to lots of designers who are starting up, or even designers I think, that have had a business for a really long time, but are like, how do I crack into that international market? Or how do I move across and up and around the world with what? I'm qualified to do i'm gonna rewind us back a little bit because we didn't just land where you are. You're not just styling in San Tro PE from. Nowhere. Something happened in between. Yeah. So let's go back like how long do you wanna go back? A year, two years? The beginning. What are you thinking? Even just going back to when we last connected inside of the framework. So you'd taken yourself into this group course to think I just wanna cross my. T'S dot the i's make sure that what I have prepared in terms of documentation, in terms of service offerings, in terms of pricing is aligned with the industry standard. I imagine from our conversation, that was what brought you into the framework just to feel that confidence of yep, I have pulled this business together correctly and I'm good to go. Yeah. And especially from a, yeah, a process and system point of view, like so valuable just to get all of that backend and also have something coherent and have that. Checklist that wasn't just all on me. Especially as a solo person, you've got no one to revert to or just have by your side and be like, am I missing anything? And it was just so good to have that framework and that flow of work to be like confident in saying. I've got everything so that when I do even just onboard a client that I'm checking all of yeah, my dots sort of thing throughout the whole process so that I had that just framework in general. Yeah. It's funny, I was talking to some of the girls in the cost. I had a framework. Call just before this conversation. And I was laughing because I said to them, I want you to think my templates are ugly and I want you to make your own.'cause I'm not building a franchise and I haven't actually updated mine since I built the framework in 2022. So I'm like, I hope that you go in and you're like, what? I didn't like this template, but. I'm all about what is the meat and potatoes inside? Get all of the copy and steal it out of there and make your own. Or like all of my email templates, you now never have to feel like you wanna break up with a client, but you don't know how. Great. Just go grab the email template, start from there, and use an AI solution or tool, and. Personalize it because yeah it was never intended to mean that everyone had the same documentation or the same style or even the same offerings. When I was running my business, it was very e design heavy. And yet it still translates to full service design and it still teaches, price points and other things that are not just for designers. So it brings me, to when we first met, there was talk of doing e-sign. There was talk of like just setting up your offers and knowing what you wanted. How did we get where we are in terms of opportunity? Like how did this all come about? Because one minute we were chatting away and the next I see I'm packing up my house and I'm outta here. I think it's connections. So I'm born in the uk. I was actually raised in France, so I know France very well. And then I have family that live in the Middle East. So it's literally all about connections. It was who I knew and seizing the opportunity. I remember when I first did a project with the developer that I work with, Mihir, he just set it on a whim in a conversation like, if you are still here at this point. I've actually got a project that needs decorating. If you are up for it, it's it's yours to do. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna make this happen. And it just visa wise and everything, it just also aligned. And I got really nervous and I asked my younger brother actually, I was like, oh my God, I really wanna do this job. I think I can do it. How do I have the courage? Or to pull him back up on it or to follow up and say Hey, I'm actually still here. Let's do it. And he gave me great advice that I took on and he said. I don't think these this kind of opportunity for this person. You ask for it, you tell them this is what you're gonna do for them and have that kind of confidence, which I didn't at all. So I winged it and I messaged them with total confidence of shaking and saying Hey, I'm actually still here. This is what I'm gonna do for you. And he was like, perfect. Let's be up. And we did a brief and it was just flowed from there. And so yeah, a mix of. Connections and the confidence just to believe in yourself, especially at the beginning to say yeah, I can do this, we need to put your brother's mobile number in the show notes because I know you and I know that you don't have that confidence, so I'm very proud to hear you be like, like in person. You probably wouldn't have been able to sit down with them and say, this is what I'm going to do, but through shaken hands of messages, you were able to say, because shoot your shot. What have you got to lose? If they'd said to you, no, you were just coming home, but you're going home anyway. It was exactly that. It was such good advice. I remember sitting, we were at a bar and he told me,'cause I was so nervous to be like, oh, how do I get this? I really want this opportunity. And there'd been a a fair few opportunities that had to come to me before, but I never had the courage to say yes to them. Or I was like, oh, that's not for me. I'm like, too young of a designer or not experienced enough, or I don't have the skillset or anything like that. And this one I was just. Oh, I think I'm ready. But just, on the edge of that fear of, I don't quite believe, but when I asked my younger brother, he was like, don't ask. Just say this is what you're gonna do. And he had, he told me with such conviction and confidence within me that it gave me the self-belief to go out and just be like, okay. But it still took me a few days and like shaky hands still to message. And every day on that job, I remember just being like, am I capable? But then. And I think for a long time in any jobs, I was always a bit nervous or had to breathe deep beforehand, and then when I went on site or when I was actually on site, I was like, it was just a clear vision for me. Yeah, you come alive, don't you? If you're in the right place, all of a sudden you're like, fight me on this hill. You can't I know what's right for this project. Absolutely. It's just like a different person comes out of you. It's like you are, there's, it isn't even about you anymore. It's about the project, it's about the client. It's. Yep. And it's like all of that mind chatter and limiting self beliefs like are left at the door because you're actually in it and you are on the spot. And then all of your skillset or experience or whatever you have in you just comes out. And it's just honestly, a clear vision of dah. We need to do this. This is better here. Oh no, et cetera. And it just flows out of you. Yeah, I think over time it's just gone oh, okay. That's been the reassurance afterwards to know that I can come onto certain projects and be confident. One of those though. Yeah. It really validates you, doesn't it? And I'm laughing'cause I'm listening to, your brother's advice. That's amazing. In a man's world, like there are men way less qualified than you that wouldn't have thought twice about sending that message. Just literally being like, this is what I can do with no idea if they could do it or not. Like they just wouldn't. Think it through, and I feel like it's a good message for the female listeners to today's episode is like we're so hard on ourselves as gender in general, and generally we're twice as qualified as the person with all the confidence and bravado who smoke and mirrors. And we know that across so many different industries and elements. But there's always generally a man, I'm just gonna generalize, but there's always someone who will throw their hat in the ring with for no reason, no idea if they can or can't. So just I always try to remember that when we are sending those, when your hands are shaking and you're sending scary messages, someone else has already messaged or will message in your hesitation. So it's just do it. It's exactly that, and it is a very, I think I've only realized that recently between like men and women as well. Like the confidence that a man would have to just say yeah. Or not even think about it. Not even doubt or anything like that. Whereas generally it's like walking to your car without your keys, clutch between your fingers, like you've just been given this all the time. That's the, that's your resting nervous system where we're just so apologetic and unsure and nervous and thinking like, what if they say no? What if they say no? What if they say yes? What? What actually changes? Except the fact that. I feel that we hold ourselves back and don't even send the message. So you are giving yourself a no through lack of chasing an opportunity. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it was like a, as you were speaking, it came to me like the forward thinking of a woman, like to always trying to do our best. All that perfectionist system in us of, we see a, especially like towards a project, it's okay, we see. 10 steps ahead to think this is what the outcome was, the outcome that we would want for our client, for the project, everything. Whereas a man probably wouldn't think of that. It's just like in the present moment and saying okay, this is what I need to do to get to the next step. And it's a yes or just asking for it. Whereas where like with that yes, comes a performance. We need to deliver, be able to deliver on that. So we've put that pressure on ourselves to be able to deliver even before we've ev we've started, it's a lot, we should be getting our proposals should have extra zeros for the female touch. And the fact that we are actually considering, a flow chart of a yes means this and a no means that. And not just as you say, one step ahead. Today's issues is today's issues sorted out and eventually we'll get there. I shouldn't say that'cause I feel like it's a bit man bashing. There are amazing, men inside this industry and all industries, but it's really at its crux, this conversation is about the confidence and the the gender disparity. Yeah, between what a man would put their hand up and say they're qualified to do without question versus the agonizing question, self-questioning and self-doubt that we go through in order to just say, I wouldn't mind to go at the project if I could if I could pitch for it, that'd be nice against men at all. I truly believe that I wouldn't be able to do my job without your brother is the catalyst for everything, so go. Absolutely. Yeah. When we're strong, stronger, together. Absolutely. And I do think that it's just about identifying Yeah, sometimes where, we have failings and strengths and so do they. And I think that I, I do love the idea that if anyone's listening and they've never thought about it that way, the next time you do something brave or scary, just be like. A man in this position wouldn't be thinking about it. They'd be doing it, and I feel like I'm just going to like pour buckets of water on the fire, thinking about it, and then it never gets done. So tell me about the project though. There's so many amazing, if people can follow along in the show notes with your Instagram or whatever, but some of the. Quality of the developments that are going on and the things that are happening are really exciting and really beautiful. So it's beautiful work. But tell me about the project. So I think we've completed on a sixth one this year so far. So there's been pretty much one every month that's been completed. And then we're well finishing up one before the end of next week. So it's a very busy time at the moment. And then we have another one forecast for the end of. The year. So the projects for the developer, he is a developer. So he gets investors to purchase everything, and then everything is pretty much in-house. So we have a tremendous amount of control with our timelines due to in-house production. So that goes for steel, upholstery, carpentry, so it affects all of the joinery and even down to furniture. So I can't even procure anything then. We just draw it up and we're able to work something out. We also have a marble factory as well, so it's pretty hands-on and we get to have the. Major control over the majority of the details that go into it, but also cost-wise and timelines are reduced due to having that a level of control over the factory. So how exciting. I love that For you. I love the element of furniture design and creative control and creative direction when it comes to. Solution focused design. We absolutely love that. And I've seen some things that have happened in outdoor spaces by the big pools, and I've seen some of the joinery, like I have been obviously spying along, watching along cheering from the sidelines. But I think that's such a, yeah, such a highlight on bespoke design and actually being able to say there's nothing else in the market because I just made it for this particular, number five of six developments, and it's not in. One to four or number six. It's very, I'm assuming that you're doing it per property. Yeah, it's per property, so everything is custom to the size, everything like that. The amount of times that we've, you will find me sat on a, on something or where Measuring. Okay, so if the sofa hits here, where do we make the coffee table from? Do we wanna put our feet up? How far? Back, how deep do we need to make this? And therefore, okay, so if we're making cushions with it, what kind of cushions do we want? What is the depth, what is the comfort? And oh, actually we should put a console table because it would be nice in this area if we're sitting and chatting or having a board game night or watching television or something. We need to be able to. Put our glass behind us or beside us, or let's do a cuff on the sofa. It is the level of creativity when you can do custom, it just opens up so many doors, within your own imagination to So exciting. Quite crazy. Yeah. Or to really think about how people are gonna operate in the space. Even the desks that I'm sitting on now, it's okay, we figured out we want. We want to feel this curve at the end of this table. And we would want drawers with sockets in here and the top one, but not on the bottom one. But then a printer would go inside of these drawers. So let's customize it around what's going in there and how people are gonna use this space. Yeah. Exciting. And have you gotten to know an entirely different ideal client? Like we would've worked on things in the framework, but then obviously different cultural influences, different. Historically, how people have lived in homes is different across different countries. So you're learning a. Lot like crash course on that as well. Crash course on everything. Crash course on aisle one. I'm just here in like fetal position for day. Yeah, don't worry. I've had many a meltdowns or thank god for a best friend that's always on the other side of a voice now. But yeah, crash course on furniture design culturally as well. Definitely. It depends on the location. When you're working for a developer as well, it's completely different to working one-on-one with a direct client who's gonna live in this space. Again, you get that freedom of creativity to imagine who's gonna be here, but then also strategically you need to look at the geographical location of where we're actually developing. So what types of people are in the area? Are they family orientated? So are we gonna accommodate for that in the bedroom spaces and the flow? The layout of the actual home as well, or is it geared to a more single type of a person in an international market? And especially at a junction such as Dubai, the Middle East is very multi multicultural as well. So it's okay, what kind of client are we attracting here? Is it a European client? Are they Chinese? Are they American? Are they Australian? Where are they coming from? Who are, who is our target market for this property? And also economically, what status, obviously are they coming in at? Different. We work a lot on there's a place called The Palm, which is quite known for. It's a manmade structure in Dubai that is in the shape of the palm as you see it from an aircraft. And on that. Again, like you have to crash course in like geographical locations of knowing what kind of clientele is where on what front. So each front of the palm also goes down in numbers. So there's about 150 properties on one. Front. But the further you go down, the better the view. So the lower numbers are not gonna be the same kind of clientele, even in that tight geographical area, as the higher numbers and the properties also change. A lot of the properties are. Like we've just done two that are actually identical. And then in the styling we've done different kinds of layers to attract a different sort of clientele still staying within the same umbrella of that Mediterranean European feel because that's the representation of the developer that I'm working for and also my brand. I was about to say well chosen since it's so on par with your, it obviously reflects your aesthetic. You're not going in and just working with a lot of mirrored cabinetry and you're not going in like that. It very much, I can see you all in and around every single property so far. So I love that. Exactly. Yeah. And that was amazing just to. Go back on how we actually started working together as well. In the first property. He actually had an interior designer come in. And as a friend I was just like, he wasn't super happy with the outcome. He did it, the brief wasn't quite aligned. And I said I can restyle it for you. I was only here for a little bit. And that's how we really got to working together because I did a re styling and then he offered me the first job to come on. On that project, and we did really align visually with what we wanted the brief to look like. Spoke in the same design language. So that was really good. And it's carried through to all of the projects that we're doing today. But yeah, just to come back to the developments on the palm. So there's different sizes as well. There's like standard homes, but then there's signature properties that are obviously pretty much three times as big, but it, they're higher, further down on the front, and therefore they have a better view at the more private, more secluded, and therefore they do call in. A different clientele, again, which you have to be mindful of with the furnishes and finishes, and to the extent of thoughtfulness that you need to consider during the design process within joinery and stuff like that as well. Feel like I'd be like, oh, I'm really not clear about this ideal client. I think we might need to go to the same restaurants. I might need to stay in the same hotel just to get a feel for it. Like you might just fund me living this like Dubai bling lifestyle like just for a little bit, and then I will properly immerse myself and understand. It is, saying that it is so important to just go and visit. We've had many a chats with the two project managers that I constantly work with who are honestly the backbones of everything. Your go-to people when you're on site and managing multiple sites as well. But it's okay, let's go and have a drink here, or let's go and do a meeting here. So it's oh, we sit in these chairs. Even yesterday, I was at the Bulgari Yacht Club and the chairs, I was like. Wow, these are amazing. It was leather and they were a brass. Finished. They were so heavy. But just the experience of that, it's yeah, take it all in no matter where you are going, whether you're in an airport, no matter if you are going out for a coffee. How is your experience? I think as every designer, we sit in a place and we're like this could have been like, like this. Or, oh, I wonder if they thought of doing. That, but it's really taking a moment to be present within the experience of how they've thought about the spaces, even one of the column, and also what the ideal client is experiencing because they are looking for the same in their home, the same level of luxury that they afford to commercial properties to, as you say, specific bars, specific locations. They're there because they wanna be seen there or that they think that's aligned with their level of wealth or that sort of stuff. So I think, you can't just go in and be like, I know a Kmart Jupe for this. It's that won't work. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm all for mixing high and low end as well, but you've gotta know where to put it. And the. The aesthetic, the visual, your first impressions when you when you walk into a place, it obviously has to be of er in a caliber, if you're attracting that kind of a client as well. And then obviously materiality wise and stuff like that. If you see cheaper options, go for it. Working with a developer as well, budget comes into mind, which is very important because they are a developer. They're not the end client, so it isn't their forever home. Here to make profit and their margin is pretty big. So it's a, it is a huge consideration. Where do we pour into, what do we pour into when, and what can we save on, so it is a constant reassessment on budget as well. It's interesting you talked about like decisions in joinery, high end, that strip of brass that. Lighting the sort of thing that your client is looking for and I think it's such a good reminder, especially obviously lucky for you, you get to make all these customizations and have everything from scratch, but yeah, like that is absolutely a great way to call out. The difference between this location and that location is, and people see it. I think they, they're used to seeing the standardization. Recognize customization when it's done well. So in things like the joinery, they're straightaway like, oh, this is soft closing drawers that are built into the, headboards and this has this, and they can see that you mentioned the developer margins and that world. And I support so many designers who actually do shoot their shot with developers and they do. Have meetings and they do send proposals and it's very common for them to get ghosted straight after or for the developer. And it's totally generalizing, but it's don't worry. Gary's wife, Sue will just do the interior design'cause she's got a good house or a good eye for things. There's a lot of missed opportunity. This is again generalizing, but this is my experience as coaching people through those proposals and then they're pitched and nothing happens. And I guess I just wanted to verbalize when other people are listening and normalize how often that happens and how it's so much to do with the margins. So they actually do the calculations and you need to be paid and paid fairly for what you do, and that eats into their margin. And if they have any other way of DIYing it. And they don't value the luxury different, this is different market obviously, but if you are like just pitching to a developer in Brisbane and they ghost you, chances are they've just gone, Hey, we'll put in an extra six hours, we'll get a pretty lame result. It won't be anything like we would've if we'd engaged you, but is that it? Common story that you are aware of as well? I would think, looking back, absolutely. My opportunity here came because of their initial lack of consideration towards interior design and who they were looking for. It didn't work out with the first one because it was a misalignment on the brief. They under undervalue, undervalued probably that person by only giving her certain parts to shine up and then try to make a difference. By the way but that first restyle job, because they had a lack of budget. And I knew them. I was like, I'm here, I'm on holiday. Like it's it's all good. Like I'll come in and do it. It's my pleasure. I didn't get anything for that first job. But in the long run, that's why I'm here. Because I restyled that on my own terms. It was also, it's an investment in yourself to, in your own portfolio, in your own skillset, in your own experience, but also to show them what you can do. It led to my first job with them, my first paid job with them. And again, like that first job, I'm gonna be really honest. It didn't pay me well, like it did. He undercut me. My first pricing. He said I could, I can do half for you. Developers are quite ruthless. Yeah, they are. They have to be. That's how they make my that's how they're good at what they do. Let's not. Say it's a bad thing if you are, if you've got my money invested, I want you to be maximizing my return and not spending it being like, actually you, you made X amount.'cause they spent it all on styling the property. Like I value that, but I also think that yeah, they are gonna come in hard. They're like, I. Buyer's advocates the advocacy for the property. Definitely, yeah. And for their investors, is an they probably have 10 people behind them that are like, I want my money, I've got a deadline. I wanna see my return and stuff. So it's just, you've gotta put yourself in other people's shoes, but also respect yours, honor yours, and stand up for yourself and say okay, what is, what can I take and everything. I was more than happy on that first job because I was such a young designer as well. I took it for the opportunity, for the experience for the learning curve, and that was my investment more than the financial aspect at that time. It almost always pays off though, like I'm a big believer in, we talk about billable and non-billable hours, but there is tangible dollar sign results and on. Trackable results as well, like without going into too much detail, even just recently speaking at decor and design, I gave away over a thousand US dollars worth of my custom tools in that talk, and I have not gotten off the phone this week from opportunities to do private consultancy to develop tools for different businesses, not all design related as well. That will come back to me. That a thousand dollars investment to everybody in that room. Some people will never work with me, and that's great. I love to gift people. I've made it. It's yours, but it is a business decision because the return on investment, and I've never been shy about saying that I was working during COVID time. I was doing e-sign for$45. Like we've. It was something ridiculous. I wanted, I had a strategy to build my processes around exposure to lots of different rooms before I felt confident to start charging. It was just something that I wanted to do. So I think if you're out there listening, no judgment, just know when to grab the reins and pull tight. Just have a, I think in the framework I teach, there's a pricing timeline and it's like you can give it away for anything for three people, and I won't judge you. And then I'm gonna ask you what marginal fee, even if you're only confident enough to get a bottle of verb at the end of the project, put it in writing, make it a contract. Feel valued that way'cause it was on your terms. And then we'll get you more confidence and you get the next one. And there will be a time where you will never do anything for less than your multi five figures and the bottle of earth. And that's okay. You've gotta work your way there. Absolutely. And I think that's the same with in any industry and for anybody who's starting out, you've gotta weigh out the pros and cons and what it's given you in non tangibles as well. So it's not just about the financials, especially in the beginning. If you seize an opportunity, if you see an opportunity that is gonna give you a certain amount of exposure, but also knowledge, that first opportunity. It was the first time I was designing custom furniture. It was a huge learning curve and it was one that I was gladly, eager and excited to take on,'cause I was like, oh, what else am I gonna do? I'm gonna go back to my nine to five who I was working working in design. But I wouldn't have had the growth experience within my skillset if I hadn't have taken this on. And you get to set your aesthetic and you got to teach everybody. You got videography that was paid. You got thought, you've got this, there's so many things, this leadership piece, people see you working internationally. Then when you return to the Gold Coast and then all of a sudden you are, you can put Gold Coast slash Dubai slash New York slash France, you could start to feel like way bigger. You're like, I don't get paid for anything, but don't worry. You don't need to know about that line. Yeah, exactly. Poor. But it was, it had nothing to do with the financials. It was such a great opportunity. The next developer who starts looking through your portfolio or whatnot is okay, so you've had experience on something. This level, developers are not gonna just immediately go, do you know what? Let's bring you over. Or let's you know if you're over here as well, let's. Chat and the last thing they wanna do not only cut into their margin but have a disaster on their hands. It's great that you get to learn, but that also, and I felt this too in those early days, is that also set me up to be comfortable asking questions and making mistakes because I'm like, you didn't pay me anyway. If I need to learn something, if you had paid me even 50% of what you should have been charging to be on that project, I wouldn't have shown up with questions. Because I would wanna be showing up being very professional as a 50% of what I'm worth paid designer, because we are all learning, right? But I would've felt a little bit more uncomfortable. Whereas when I was at that price point, I found it really, I found it easy for me to say, by the way, I'm testing my end-to-end processes. If you notice anything, if there's any feedback with my documentation, like I'll push them. Can I have a Google testimonial? As this was part of it, was that I could take photos and I wouldn't have done that with a paying client. I would've just been like, that's fine. Don't worry about it. And I think that it, yeah, it's really good for that education. You would've asked so much more. And then now when you're being paid well to create custom furniture design, you've got someone you. Knows that you're curious and that you ask questions and that you check off the cross the T's and dot the i's, and you actually don't pretend you know something. Yeah. To get a result, you get it done and even if that makes you feel stupid while you ask, but I'd rather ask something and then go, oh. You again, then get it wrong in a property. Oh my goodness. I am the person that turns the stone around like 500 times. I will always double check. Double ask. Yeah. And outsource like that knowledge. If I don't know it, I'm gonna, it's quicker for me to put my hands up and say, Hey, this is new for me. Because to be honest, in the design industry as well, every project is so unique and different. Hey, can I interrupt today's episode for just one second? I wanna talk to you about the framework for emerging designers. Whoever's ready and would like to strategically work with me on a weekly basis for the next 12 months to really set up and design a sustainable business that they can plug and play and use over and over that will. Support their lifestyle and not burn them out and all of the things. I'm here for you. I'm here to help you. I'm not doing a rah rah doors open, doors close, painful launch. There have been a lot of changes this year. There are a lot of changes ahead. Uh, there are a lot of things that I no longer have to do because I don't actually need it to be. As big of a course as it is because I have built an army of support assistants that are there to take you from the beginning to the end of the course and do it all for you. With you. Of course, they're ai, but kind of also for you, which never existed when I wrote the framework. So now somebody helps you. Calculate your pricing based on market research. That's Percy, the pricing calculator. Mary sets your services. Yumiko finds your unique value. Bennett works on your brand voice and your brand command and your ideal client and everything you need to know about what kind of business you wanna run. Marius does your Pinterest, Otis does your Instagram captions. Sylvie plans seven days of content for you every week. It is phenomenal. I have given you an entire boardroom of virtual staff so that you will have to do less and less and less. It's crazy to me. I feel so sorry for the first year version of myself who had to do all of this the hard way. Anyway, that's it for me. If you are serious and if you are interested, please reach out to me over on. Instagram at Oleander and Finch. I will also put a link to the information page on my website for the framework in the show notes. Even if you're working with the same materials and stuff like that, there's a certain amount of skillset that you're gonna have, but everything is gonna be new, especially when you're doing so much custom. This is the first time that you're gonna be doing this, so there's. And there's a whole team of people that need to coordinate together. It might be the first time that you're working with them, language barriers here and everything like that. So it's like double checking, asking the questions, clarifying, making sure that documentation is on point and double checking it again to make sure. I definitely think that there's people that feel like they should know it all, and I'm such a believer of saying, I love that question. Let me explore it or investigate it or find someone to walk us through it together. And I'll also learn, and I'll get back to you, I never have a problem telling clients like, I'm not supposed to be an expert in drapery or upholstery, or it is an element, just as you say, you lean on your team and the skill where it is, and just know that you are, you're the curator, you're the one that can see it all coming together. But you don't have to be the expert in every single element. No. And lean on your suppliers. I am constantly creating good relationships with your suppliers so that you can call them and say oh, is this UV protected? Or what material is that? Oh, I've never heard of that. Really be curious and inquisitive of. I've never heard of that. And then in this industry, there's so many advances that keep on coming out that you have to be curious and have to know that at the moment I'm diving into liquid metal and I'm like, I've never used it, but we want to use it. It's okay, I need to go to an expert to find all of this information out. I might only retain half of it for my client and what I want to use it for, but I need that. Constant learning of products, of materiality, of, measurements even, or to verify when, yeah, we are only human at the end of the day, there's only certain amount of information that you can retain before you have to relearn something in a new way for a new environment for a different client. Or just ask again. I think it's always really important to always be learning. I know I'm definitely constantly learning on every single project, which is the exciting thing and part of why. Love what we do. Yeah. I think a lot of designers are lifelong learners. I always say that like lots that come into my different courses and I'm like, I've never recognize you. I've already taught you something. Like people come round about and do things again. And I love that because I feel like when I'm in a project, I want. I always wanna be like, I wanna know so much I could work in your retail store and sell your product. I can sell hybrid flooring, or I can sell liquid metal, or I can do whatever. But then I also wanna be like, oh, I've quit that job and move on to my next thing. I don't wanna retain it. Like I'll come back around and I'll be all about it in the next project that it's. Relevant to, but we can't hold onto Absolutely. Like that in-depth knowledge for every particular selection. Absolutely. Yeah. Go crazy. So what's next? What's going on? I saw you styling around San PE and I was so you. Getting lots of pieces together and heading out to some amazing places. And I was thinking, oh gosh, even just the challenge of knowing what suppliers to go to and knowing where these things are, like how has that been? Where are you getting this information from? Yeah, that was the massive opportunity with, so it's for the same developer. And the one reason why I did say yes to a full year with him is because there was also international. Project. So it's yeah, absolutely. It is a lot of work. Yeah, but be so stupid. I'll pay you. That's fine. It's, it looks amazing. It's honestly like it's a lot of work, but it's also there's not a day that goes by that in a moment. I'm like, what on earth is this? I'm pinching myself, but. For France in particular I grew up 17 years in France. So I do know it fairly well. And also I grew up in a family of home renovators. So my parents actually moved to France when I was seven and a half, and they ended up, even though they had their businesses in the uk, they ended up flipping homes in France, which is a pretty common thing for British experts. Over there. So I was always constantly in homes renovating and stuff like that. So I actually remember a lot of suppliers from back then, to be honest. Even one in particular left off the language, just that's fine, I'm getting back into it. Yeah. Yeah. You have to get back in the swing of things and stuff, and. I had old contacts, people that I used to work with in France that I had connected through social media and I actually contacted one of the girls to help me source the furniture because she just so happened to work for a, a furniture store there. And I was like, oh, amazing. I do remember the night before my flight to San Trappe, I was like, God, there's this, just this one brand that, I can't remember the exact name of it, but I remember where it was when I grew up because I was used to like. Drool over the store when I would see it on like my tram ride and I remember Google maps in it. This is how silly it can be sometimes, to try and refind or dig into your brain like, oh, where is it? What is that? And then. Found it. And there was one their main showroom is actually in nice, which is down the road from San Trappe. So flew in and went straight to them. And yeah. And then from there discussing with them and just as, again, being curious, being open and being able to say Hey, I'm new in this area. I don't know. This person, where can I find an electrician? Where can I find just a handyman. Where do you get this from? Where'd you get that from? I'm looking for, I'm on a project at the moment, but I need to source like some terracotta pots. Where's the best place to get terracotta pots? And just honestly giving yourself that time to go round and explore and get lost. And just go into showrooms. Go into, drive around and and ask people for context. And I think. Been open and vulnerable and stuff. I remember in one of the stores, even just for books, I'm looking at a book at the moment and, I saw it in this little boutique and it got four of them because I was like, I dunno where to get books from here, take court books and stuff. And then on my way back I saw this game store and,'cause they were so heavy, I just stopped and I ended up chatting with her and she was like, oh my God, there's a major bookstore, like around the corner, like in the next town along and stuff. My God. Okay, great. I'm carrying this. I carried a watermelon for no reason. Absolutely. And she was like, they'll deliver for you and everything. I was like, oh my God. So it's literally just using your context, being open, communicating with people and not being afraid to ask to be honest. Yeah. And build those relationships. Will you ship to Dubai? This is something you wanna get some. Unique pieces or things like that. I'm sure there's conversations around importing opportunities and they're just as grateful to meet you as you are to them because you are the gateway to projects that they couldn't be on otherwise. So it's all, yeah, that networking and that building of relationships. I love it. Yeah, exactly. And everybody comes a part of the pro process and the project. Even if it's a lighting supplier or anything like that, it's always I'll always send them pictures to say Hey, we've installed it. I'm so excited. Or even if I'm just buying one piece from someone, no matter what it is, whether it's a. The a sofa, wine or whatever. I'm like, I'll tell people what it's for and,'cause I'm genuinely excited for what I'm doing as well. And it's oh, I'm I'll show you, I'll show you how I've styled it. I'll show you how we've implemented it or something like that. So they can see. Yeah. And do you have a team working with you in terms of an install or the likes of that? Do you have support in that? Area, are you just rushing around installing it all yourself? Obviously the project get tactic and you're saying, it's a one month turn. That's a lot for how many people will be on site and how many things have to come together when it's time for install day. I hope that you have a good crew packing and unpacking boxes and they're all wearing their white gloves and they're all listening to what you say. So it is a huge team effort. Like any install is, we do have a so it's our cleaning team that will be the main right hand people for me on the day. We don't have any stylists apart from myself, but everybody is so I think we're so used to working together now and, there's a hanging team, there's a. A, a man to, like a group of four men follow me around all day to move and shift stuff. You are living the dream, aren't you? Which I'm used to. I also come from a property styling background, so I'm also used to doing a lot of stuff by myself. And you've gotta understand that in a different project. It's it's actually better just to be the middle person and say no, we need this like. Moving an inch here or No, this goes here. This goes here. The visionary. So that you can pull it together rather than be standing on something trying to nail in a, like Yeah, trying to put a picture hookup or something. Exactly. Can you're like, exactly. I shouldn't be doing this. Yeah. But it's even though I'll be the main point of call, yeah. There's a team of probably about 10 people. That are crucial to installing, unpack from unpacking and even to saying I need it unpacked a certain way.'cause there's always a technique and a strategy for the install to roll out smoothly. And so everybody understands that. And everybody knows even like a, there's three people to make beds and steam them. And it's I get called drill sergeant because. You have to, it's a very, you're doing it well. If they're calling you the Nazi behind your back, you're doing it. That is that from Grey's Anatomy? It's like you just you actually do have to in order to get it, to meet timelines and to meet budget yeah. If no one was doing that, we'd just still be like floating around thinking about having beds made and stuff. It. Absolutely. Yeah. You allocate, you do a walkthrough when you when you arrive, make sure all the lights are on, everybody's comfortable, there's water stocked up, all the essentials. Everybody's in comfy clothes, and it's okay, we're gonna walk around, do a general vision of how we're gonna attack the day and then split up into teams. I need you to do this, that, and the other. These people will do this. Furniture placement and everything, but there's also documentation on every door to, so people visually know what is going in this place and where it's gonna be placed. Which I'm sure is plenty of late nights for you to pull together. What looks like a simple QR code on the door is I've actually thought about this from the girding boards up and everything is considered. Yeah. They were. We actually had an install going on about the install date happened to be when I was over in France. So it was a major production beforehand and getting everything out and pre-styling so that I could take photos of everything, how it needed to be, but then making sure that back away until, yeah, labeled everything. So yeah, that everybody could, put everything out smoothly whilst I was away. It sounds like an enormous amount of fun, a huge opportunity. Like worlds away from some discussions we had way back in the framework. And just, I'm I just absolutely thrilled for you and I love watching along and I know that it's just the beginning of such a, an international career. What is the next steps? Like what, so you've got until the end of the year, are we just returning to Australia to cry or are we like, how are you feeling about the next I, just aside the time to cry when I get back. Mourn. Honestly, open-ended. I think I'm so focused on what is happening now that, it has come into mind over the past few weeks of, okay, what is the next step? What is gonna happen? Get onto those connections because from one develop, developer's talk, they meet, they golf they hang out in certain circles. So making it very, I guess this is obviously not a coaching session, but making it very known that you are free from January onwards and ready to take on another project. Yeah. Leaving it open as well, because I have. No idea what is possible. This time last year, if I think back, I wasn't in the same space, wasn't doing the same thing. So it's like anything can change at through a conversation, really through saying yes and seeing what's out there or just even for shooting your shot. So also I think leaving some downtime to just land back as well will be really important for me because the pace is very extreme. Like Dubai is a ruthless, a brutal place to work, and so just leaving some downtime and then seeing what comes up. Yeah, I think I don't know, maybe some digital products as well. Nothing is set in stone, honestly, think interesting because you don't leave with the intent of I'm leaving and I'm never coming back. You gave a one year commitment, you had a specific task, something that is so beautiful and like really lights you up. But you're right, it's very hectic. And knowing that but I'm returning immediately to find somewhere to live and do something. It's come back, visit friends, relax, you've earned it, and see what opportunities are next, and knowing that you can pitch for those opportunities internationally from the base of Australia or from being at home and relaxing and stuff, I think is reassuring. You don't have to be. At that pace in that, in it for it to continue. Like I feel like I love that for you, just knowing that you can come back and you've got that up your sleeve and you've got that as part of your trajectory, but it doesn't have to make or break. Like the next thing could be smaller and more boutique and allow you some nervous system. Like it's a great opportunity. But yeah, I've honestly, like dream wise, I've flirted with the idea of doing my own development and stuff like that. Something. Probably more independent and definitely more niche. When I think of my ultimate business goal for myself or even my professional career and stuff, it's two to three projects a year without social media or okay, I get it. I'm hearing you loud and clear. I know which module you hated. You're like, look at me. Go, and I didn't need your stupid hashtag, but it's just it's a whole nother job. It's so bad. It's so full on and it like, and I think it's in, like it's good for people to hear that I might show up all of the time, and I say this a lot inside of all of my coaching containers, but like my ideal client is you guys, and you do find me there, but your ideal client is not shopping automatic, like you're not gonna convert from Instagram nearly as much as the energy that most designers. Or like kind of the status they give Instagram is it's going to bleed into all of your biggest opportunities, but I guarantee you what you have, just who you know. Spending five minutes. This is so silly, but like when was the last time you looked on Facebook? So Facebook, you might have let's just say you've got 500 actual friends on Facebook, your personal Facebook, not your business. When was the last time?'cause everyone has their job description that you went in and farmed in that. Because I did it not that long ago and I was like, oh yeah, I forgot that guy was the head of that radio set. I forgot that people I went to school with have gone on to have career trajectories that I wasn't aware of and then I was able to like message them and say, hey. Is there someone in your HR team that I can reach out to about doing some private AI consultancy with your, like your genre of business And I've been doing that lately and getting some really great conversions and results. And it's exactly the same as a designer. You can go and say can I send a PDF to your, like your corporate for a Friday afternoon? That just gives, maybe they're in the same area and it's it just gives you a 30% discount on in-home consults. Only if you work for. This head office like you and you quote the code or whatever, and it's like those connections will get you paid. Yeah. Instagram will feed your ego. I don't care if I'm live like saying that I don't need you to validate me on social media because I'm not an influencer and I'm in my forties and I did not grow up in front of the camera and I'm super awkward, but I do it anyway because that's where you all find me. But your clients don't find you there at nearly as much as they can through connections, networking, local. What is the point of. Again, I always say this, why are you trying to attract someone to like you and inquire if you are 1200 kilometers away from their house? How are you gonna do that in-home consult? If you're a designer who works locally, go be local. Yes, absolutely. Be local. One of the best. Advices that I got from a local developer down in on the, in the Shire. So I'm like just on the border of the Gold Coast was send an email with your picture and offer them a coffee. Oh, all the builders, everything like that. Just send them an email. I know it sounds really awkward to do, but send them a picture so that they know who you are. A trustworthy, warm, it gives out all of that. Don't send them this full PDF thing explaining what you can do and stuff like that. Just say, I need five minutes of your time. I'm happy. What's your coffee order? I'll come and bring you a coffee where you are on site, whatever, and pitch yourself that way. Ruthless. So scary. But do it because as well, like social media for me, I've definitely changed my like perspectives of I suppose like my funnel is those in-house conversations, those face-to-face encounters that will give me the clients that I actually want and the projects that I am aligned to, that will best suit the client as well as as me. And then my Instagram or social medias are just social proof or social support towards that. It's yeah, you can check out this. So it's a quick scroll through for them and it's not, people aren't finding me through this level of clientele isn't finding me through. Isn't DMing me on Instagram? No, we're not making million dollar homes through the hashtag like DIY decorate obviously. But also it's so true that it is your living portfolio for me. And not anymore. I don't think it would. It could have happened in 2020 and 2021. I was getting people contact me from the US and saying, what are the opportunities to have you on site on the project? I'm like it's 2020. Hello. I can't come there. Those sorts of things. And I think that. Having a living portfolio, all that people are doing is checking that you are not a, like a scam. That picture of your face and that offer for coffee isn't going to actually be like, the next offer is like, gimme your credit card for solar rebate. It's no. She is a real person and I can see your location, the kind of level of jobs that you're doing.'cause a developer doesn't, it is hard to get your foot in the door if you don't have that. Yeah. Videography fly through of this this beautiful home in Dubai or styling in San Trappe, like that's gonna elevate what you can ask, what projects you can show up and ask for, it just, yeah, it acts as your portfolio, it acts as your resume to pitch yourself. It's just for me and when I've changed that mindset of it, it's. I'm no longer chasing, having to drain myself to be present and show up on social media constantly in order to get clients, be or get leads. You show up for fun and when you show up because it was your idea, or like you've got something to say. I've been loving watching. It is nice to see you. Out in the summertime, it's raining and cold in Melbourne and I see you in this STT top in Cent PEI looking at vessels and ceramics. And I'm like, yes, live your best life. I love watching that. But you didn't do that because you were wanting me to contact me on my inquiry form. Like it was literally just like to see that I'm a working designer. If you happen to fall on my page today and tap on the stories, you're gonna see the type of projects and behind this, like I imagine it's so busy you haven't even been able to capture a lot of content, honestly. Yeah, like even the past. Two weeks that I go through. I'm terrible at social media. I'm the worst example for it ever.'cause I go through ebbs and flows of I'll remember to put things out. But if it's ever forced and stuff, I'm like, oh, I just can't be bothered because we didn't grow up. Yeah. But it good for people to hear that media, and it. Like it, it doesn't bring me joy. So it's I know I have, we ha we do live in a world of social media. I am more of a consumer of it rather than a content creator for it. It is real task for me to do, but I'll still do it, but it's nicer now because I don't do it to follow leads up or I don't do it to chase leads. So it isn't part of a full marketing strategy. It is really their. And that will probably need to change in the future. It depends. There'll be different eras where you need to lean on it more or less or whatever, but that's why I put it my clear vision statement of word of mouth please. Yes, and sadly it's in a world of ai, meaning that, whilst your projects are real, and I can vouch for that, they very much look like they could be AI generated with the level and scale of them. If you look at that, you're like, oh yeah, I could have done like a drone fly through of this insane place and it could be completely fakes. Yeah. That's ahead for us as well. There'll be people who are creating these sorts. So portfolios are gonna be less and less trusted too. It's just a case of we're heading in the direction of don't believe it unless you've walked in it, yeah. Unless you've been there. It's very true. There are some phenomenal ai which for your own imagination is like wild because it just expands on a different level. Your creativity or what is actually possible. Then you've actually got to speak to an engineer to be like. Can I shoot it? And then everybody on your project is, like we said, customizable, not crazy. Yeah, exactly. Which I always get a bit of fe over, not backlash, like everybody's so nice here. But is there any designers who are not like that? Like you just, I'll push it to the limit and then you tell me the practicality. People are like, but they can't sit on that. If someone sits on it, you're like. Tell me again what's, I always visualize, I don't know if you're familiar with the film, very old film, dumb and Dumber, but he's yeah, absolutely. So you saying there's a chance, like every time that they say no to me, my husband says to me, stop pinning things that like, where's the bracket go? How do I make that floating shelf? And I'm like, so you're saying there's a, he'll work it out. I don't know how it's gonna happen. Exactly. But we need the, we need both, to, you need to find a middle ground of that level of creativity and that level of. Practicality and how make this happen. And it's good to push each other as well, I think. And it working with within a team that. Is eager to do that. It's oh, where can we push it? That's the exciting, like the adrenaline rush of, okay, I've I've come up with this. Can we make it happen? It's Ooh, the technicality is over. Everyone's delighted. When it does happen, it's so exciting for everyone. It's just we did this. Like you go, you might have thought of it, but we could have shut it down and we didn't, and we found an innovative way to make it happen. It's really exciting. I don't think you could ever, as a designer take full credit for anything that you do because it is such a. A huge production behind the scenes to actually get something intangible to life. Bring it to life. But then when you do, we rarely do sit back, but I remember at the before it got extremely hot here at the last open home that we did myself and the one of the project managers happened to be there at the same time. And we sat all evening. This was like an open home for developers and real estate agents. So we were completely out of. Place. It wasn't, we're just here for the free food. Yeah. We make beautiful things, but we're. In drags most of the time we, our asses off, but we sat back and we were like, oh God, wow. It's so important to take that moment and to have at least an hour in the space that is fully completed. There's no more work left to do, even though we will self criticize and be like. There's a snag up there. We need to get onto that, but just, yeah, just enjoy it a little bit. Yeah. Appreciate and be like, oh, wow. I imagined though, I remember looking out at one of the tables and there was a heap of people sharing food and everything, and to get to witness that from something, from a space that you've seen in dirt. And that you imagined, oh, this will be a great conversational area and stuff like that. And you actually see connections happens. It just warms your heart so much. And to see people walking around the space, it's like your, like we were mice in it and be like, fist bump oh, this is so good, did this, and nobody will know how much effort or all of the mishaps or errors or. It was initially supposed to be like this, but in the process of it, it changed, and now it's actually this. This is the outcome. So it's funny to look back and take that moment and just appreciate what you've actually accomplished so to say. Yeah, I think that's my favorite stuff too. And I think it's all of the I think all of us are in it for that, like watching the family live in the home or move into the home or use the space. But there is always that thing of you just poured so much love and effort into it and you're like, I cannot believe she just put her glass down in the like sweaty. Like when you're talking about making specific customizations and stuff, it'd be good to have conversations. You talk about the possibility of having product or having anything when you come back to Australia, like you wanna get some of those patent and sell them back to the, the manufacturers to be like, that's actually a me desire. Like you'll have to. Welcome to it, but let's talk big contracts. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny because that is also in the that we've talked about opening up a furniture range or a line there. Yeah, it's because it's new again, it's a work in process. It's a learning process of what's feasible, what's possible, how do we market it, how do we ship it, how do we manufacture it? Where do we store it? Is it profitable. Like it's so hard. And how many, what are they call, like how many units can we start with? What's the minimum orders? What would we need to look at? Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. But there's so many possibilities. I feel like I'll have to come up in your downtime and do a one-off coaching session up in the Sunshine Coast and hang out and, yeah. More than welcome to. Yeah.'cause there's so much learning and involved and yeah, even that business aspect of okay, so if you've designed this, where do you put your especially on a developer sign or a retail sign, what kind of profit margins do you get? What are you entitled to? It's a design that you've done. They've got the hard draft of it and reselling it for multiple times. What do you get out of that? Yeah, definitely to production in the first place. So they funded the idea and Exactly. It's all very complicated. I can imagine. Yeah. So it's next year's problem. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But now we'll just, we've got enough problems in this year. Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much. I've just loved catching up and hearing more about it, and everyone that's listening can go ahead and follow along in the show notes and. Go and check out that living portfolio on what's happening.'cause it's, there's still some more to come and then every single time I see a new one is finished it all, you can see the differences and you can see all the hard work that goes into it. So enjoy every last minute and we'll look forward to catching up when you're back in Australia. Thank you so much thank you for everything. Yeah, it's been such a pleasure to chat. That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you've found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designer. Just like you for your daily dose of design business tips, and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow at Oleander and Finch on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www.oleanderandfinch.com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.