why interior designers keep landing $4k jobs, not $40k ones

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Transcript

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Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander and Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio, and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you can expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success I wanna have a little chat about something that's coming up a lot in coaching. So I always try to think, how can I be helpful to the industry, and what conversations am I having? And a lot of the times that is AI, because I've either gotten off stage talking about AI, I'm running a workshop talking about AI. But because I still do business coaching and private coaching with interior designers, sometimes it has nothing to do with AI at all, and today is one of those times. So today's episode is going to be about market positioning and how we position ourselves as interior designers into the market, because I am feeling like I'm having a lot of conversations with people who are positioning themselves in this mid to low range. They're sharing a lot of imagery that is maybe calling in more of that same type of project, when in fact, in their mind, their position is, high-end residential, or they're going after larger commercial jobs, but that is not how they present to market. So when I say presenting to market or position to market, I'm really talking about how do you show up on your website? How do you show up in networking events? What happens when somebody finds your Instagram or your TikTok or, are we projecting and presenting the same message? So sometimes it's as simple as somebody has gone and paid a brand designer, and they've got this really elevated look. They've briefed it in. They've said, "I want it to be classic lines, timeless," like really have this kind of thing. And then they've showed up, up at the in-home consult in tracksuit pants and being like, "Yeah can't wait to see this kitchen. It's gonna be freaking awesome." I don't know. I shouldn't mock-- I'm not mocking anyone. I'm just saying, there can be a disconnect between our positioning, so I hope that gives you a bit of an example of what I mean in terms of how we present to market, where we position ourselves versus what we actually deliver. And yesterday I was coaching someone, and we were coaching them up to the next level. So they'd gone into market about twelve months ago, and it's become clear that they're doing some really excellent work in the interior design industry. They are getting noticed. They're getting great projects. It was really time for us to reassess the position to market, the price point, the-- just everything and what does that say about that designer as a whole. Someone else I spoke to last week messaged me and said I keep getting the ask if I can discount it, if I can go lower. I know there's cost of living, and I want these big renovations," And instead of getting these whole new builds or big renovations, I keep getting this sort of powder room refresh or something that is priced somewhere between 2 to 11K, and she's put herself into market expecting really big jobs. I spoke to someone else that I coach, and she's pitched out over a six-figure job just last week, and I know that she's positioning herself in the market so that proposal that landed at six figures or just over isn't a shock to the homeowner that's requested her proposal. So the second person I was talking about, the one who was going, "I keep getting these powder rooms, these other things," it was really interesting to me because it wasn't her pricing and it wasn't... there wasn't a problem with kind of how she positions herself. It had a lot more to do with her accidentally positioning herself in that lower bracket. So continuously sharing work that she had just done because she wanted the money. It wasn't great work for her. But what's happening is you're perpetuating that if you just keep, showing that little powder room, showing that little, "I'm helping these guys with an ensuite. I'm styling this person's house for stage." So see how that's quite complicated and nuanced and not niche? That actually feels like you're doing a bit of this, a bit of that, and it just positions you as confused, and so your client doesn't really know, oh, who is this person for? I think if we speak to everyone, we price ourselves somewhere in the middle. You just hope the right person finds you or the right opportunity finds you, or that someone reaches out and is like, "Hey, I've got this Airbnb," or, "I've got this development happening." And I am really all about business not happening to you, but instead being at the helm and always being like, "Okay I'm looking for these types of opportunities going forward, so how do I get active and not passive in going after those opportunities?" Because it's not on purpose, that positioning. It just happens one safe choice at a time or one tagline on your website that accidentally is talking about, design should be accessible for everyone. And people see accessibility with discounted and price sometimes when that might not be the intention So none of these choices are wrong on their own. That's just things that have happened, but stacked together, they might be building you a business that reads as capable, available, rather than like specific niche consultant in demand. Capable and available is where you're gonna be getting those $4,000 to $40,000 proposals over and over. But specific and in demand is where you start beyond $40,000 when you're sending out a proposal. And this podcast is one free piece of coaching, is not gonna get you elevated to that point in one like 30 minute podcast episode. But I really hope, because this is entirely fixable, that this particular episode just gets into your ear when you need to hear it and gives you some food for thought around, "Oh, I could make two or three changes, and hopefully start positioning myself more aligned to how I want to be in the market." Because we just wanna make sure that every existing touchpoint in your business isn't actually contradicting each other. You're saying one thing on the website, but showing different properties on Instagram, different projects showing up in your stories in a completely different way. Like alignment across your brand is really powerful. So let's go and find where those contradictions are and see if I can help you with some quick wins. Okay. Go and get your notes app open. I'm gonna walk you through the places and, that your positioning will have possible leaks today, and we're gonna go through them one at a time. And for each one, I just want you to ask yourself the question honestly in your mind, and write down anything that made you wince or that, any secret shames or anything that you want to admit to. Okay? So we're gonna put it in there so that you've got a bit of a starting point and a list of things that, "Yep, I'm gonna go and change this." So let's start with your homepage of your website. So I want you to open up your phone, open your website, read the first line like a stranger does. So imagine I don't know anything about you. I don't know how you got on there. You could have just Googled interior design Port Melbourne, right? And then your name come up, then they've arri- then your name's come up, then they've arrived on your website. They are a stranger. They read the first line. It tells them no- not about what the page is, not the he- So don't worry about the overall look and feel of the page. I want you to look at the actual hero line. Does it name a specific client, or a specific type of problem? Does it say something that could sit on any design studio site in the country? Because I see this time and time again. This is where we do website audits in Studio CEO, and nearly everyone is offering elegant, timeless, classic kitchens. Okay, we're all doing that. If it could sit on any design studio's hero message, we probably wanna work on it, right? So considered interiors for discerning clients tells a nine million dollar architectural build and a sixty thousand dollar unit reno exactly nothing about which one you want, right? Specificity is the whole game. That word every time gets me, but I'm going to continue practicing saying it because being specialized means that, I know what I expect to pay when I go to a general practitioner or a GP. When I go to a specialist, I'm instantly understanding that whilst I'm in the waiting room, it's probably gonna set me back between four and six hundred dollars for this thirty-minute appointment. So I want us all, if you are wanting to position yourself as a specialist or you have a niche and you are going to consult on a specialty area in interior design, let's all think about that so that we can set that expectation and people understand they've come to the expert. That is such a quick win on a website. I'm not gonna go into it. I could do full website audits, and I do them in Studio CEO when I-- or when I'm doing business coaching. But for you, there's a huge win in making sure that when people land on your website, you don't sound like every other interior designer in the market. So you could work with AI. We will bring AI in. You can work with Claude, work with Chat GPT and just say "I'm wanting something really unique. I want it to be very obvious very quickly what it is I specialize in, what it is I do, what I do bloody well, and I want it to have my voice." Just work on that one tagline, and that is a huge positive change that you can make in your website. Okay, your portfolio. So I'm not gonna go in project by project or even looking at... Or even make you look through the lens of is this work good? I want you to think about it like a stranger has arrived on wherever your portfolio is kept, and I want to know if I removed every caption and just looked at the mix of scale, budget, style across the whole gallery of work that you've done, what would a stranger assume that you do the most often? That is your specialty. If your standout is, if you've got this beautiful whole house or heritage modern renovation that you've done and it's on page two behind four very small decor-based glow-ups, the gallery is working against you. So again, through the lens of the consumer that lands on your portfolio, is it confusing? Is it a mix of little and big? We put so much emphasis on our portfolios as an industry. The average person who's about to hire you wants to know that you are going to deliver the transformation that you've promised, that you have relatively decent curated eye, that you can pull together a beautiful space, that you understand lighting and layering and all of the things, that they wanna see that you've done one or two things before. They don't care if it's two things or two hundred things, and it would be so much better to strip it back to the two or three projects that truly represent the kind of work that you want rather than having this volume prioritized gallery or portfolio, but it's confusing because I'm also seeing that time you said yes to a totally unaligned client and did this Hamptons front room that had gaudy coastal oars on the walls, and it was nothing to do with what you are looking to do in a high-end residential project next we're gonna just jump into Instagram, a few quick wins there. The bio has about six words of real estate before someone decides if you're not for them, okay? So you need to capture them straight away. What are those six words doing? What work are they doing? Are they generic? This is huge market real estate for your positioning. So what do the first six words of your Instagram bio actually say about you, who you serve, how you help, and what you do? I would love for you to audit them. You can use AI again and really just say, "I wanna work on making these really powerful." This has to be the yes machine. This is the second... the six words that you get that make people go follow because I wanna see more of it In terms of your Instagram grid, have a look. I usually say look between the last nine and twelve posts. So just frame that up, the nine, the last nine to twelve posts. Who are they written for? Are they hitting right into the crux of the issues of the homeowner deciding whether to spend 200K or, and this is often the case, are they positioned to another designer nodding along at your process shots? "Oh yeah, I hate when... so exciting when it's all plumbed in," and this is going there. Because they're very different messages. Okay? So again, if I removed all of the captions and I had to just work out what you do based on the last nine to twelve things on your grid, does it say high-end residential? Everyone harps on about strategy and content strategy. This is a very simple way to just keep yourself focused towards the people you want to call into your world All right, we're going over to LinkedIn because some of you are, some of you aren't. Let's do it. This one gets skipped all the time, and it's actually interesting because this is one that reaches architects, builders, commercial clients. Often people are saying to me, "How do I work with a builder? How do I get..." Because I talk a lot about an upstream strategy, like going and meeting with people before they need the designer. So conveyancers, mortgage brokers, just there's a, an army of people who can recommend a good interior designer. They are on LinkedIn. So your strategy here is to make sure that you're building a network of referral sources for that bigger work that you want. Go and connect with an architect that you admire or that has that $6 million project, because why can't you be on it? If that's what you want, you need to build that reality. If your LinkedIn headline still reads like your Instagram bio, or worse, it hasn't even been touched up since your last actual job where you worked for someone else and now you're your own founder and CEO, but you never bothered changing your LinkedIn or the LinkedIn just says interior designer, n- not really that interesting. I think there's a lot of quick wins here, where you can go and set your position in the market so that other people can find you and refer you. I had a phone call this morning, it's not the first one this week, it's only Wednesday, where people have seen me at either Decoron Design or The Design Show recently and put my name forward for speaking gigs around AI, specifically with interior design. And I know these people 'cause of the way LinkedIn has that weird stalkery thing where you can see who's on your profile. I know those people have come and checked out what I do, and I can assure you, my bio does not just say interior designer. It definitely says what I have to offer to the market and where I'm positioning myself. So if you haven't touched it since you set up LinkedIn, that's a channel activity worth doing straight away. If you're looking for commercial, high-end residential, just position yourself for what you're actually looking, and then go and network with other people who have positioned themselves in that same band. So this is about peer-to-peer networking and referral building a little bit more than it is direct to homeowner Now I wanna talk about your Google Business profile because I think this is really underrated. I think it is an area of marketing that often gets completely missed, and it's a huge win for me when I'm coaching because thanks to my dad who works in SEO and website development, and specifically in helping businesses rank on Google, I have been able to acquire some of those behind-the-scenes insights, and I've been able to help a lot of interior designers continue to rank in the top three in their area. And it's not as hard as you think. It's not something I'm gonna go into on the podcast at this point. It's more of a coaching sort of thing. But reassessing what category you sit under, what your reviews actually say is such a good exercise. Specifically, if you have a really big project and they have or maybe they haven't yet given you a review, it's nice to actually anticipate what you would like that view-- what you would like that review to actually say. So you might go to the person and say, "Look, I'd love it if you could review the project. I have quite a few reviews on my Google business page that relate to some of my earlier work. Since this is one of my larger projects, I would love if you could share some of that scale." So perhaps the review goes something like, "I worked with Rhiannon on a huge two point four million dollar renovation, and she managed the project with ease. I never even noticed anything," blah, blah, blah. Just really actually calling out what it was that we were doing. Did they mention that you were affordable or easy to work with? The affordable thing, I could probably lose that in terms of what I'm trying to do to set positioning in the market. It's not necessarily to have everyone read my reviews and then be like, "Oh, she's the cheap designer." So we wanna just really gently guide some of those reviews is the person who's giving you a review really talking about the caliber of the result? You can't control what your clients do when they're giving you testimonials, of course. But if you were to ask for one with slight strategy behind it, most people would be glad to give it to you. They'll actually be grateful for the help because half of the reason they don't write a review is they don't know what to say. So if you're able to say, "Look, I'd love for you to introduce the project with a little bit of specificity and detail, and then give me your honest feedback," that would be amazing. It would just help them help you. Okay, let's get into your inquiry process. I, ugh, I d- I don't even know if I wanna say this 'cause I don't want anyone to think that is my opinion, but sometimes when your first conversation is free it makes you feel quite generic or available in terms of It would be better if you set a b- a barrier or a boundary between people just calling you, doing that discovery call book at any time, do anything. I have alignment calls in my business, so I'm not judging here in any way. I'm just playing devil's advocate and getting the questions around there, that help us to reflect on do we have good qualifiers? If you've got a inquiry process and that process says, there's a $5,000 minimum engagement fee to work with me, or that process says, "What is your overall budget for your project? Is it under 50,000? 50 to 70? 70 to 100? 100 to 150?" Really getting those bands there, but maybe or even starting at 50K. Like, really looking at what qualifiers you're putting in there so that people are thinking, "Okay, she's someone that works on projects where it's very normal to have a million dollars in there, or 600,000," or whatever the number is. Today in this podcast, I'm not really getting specific about numbers When we have a paid or a qualified discovery call or anything like that, it kinda changes who bothers to book it. Now, again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't have discovery calls, I'm saying that those calls you need to protect the boundary really carefully and make sure they are 15 minute calls. So all you wanna know on those calls, when is the project due to start to see if I'm even capable of taking it on? What is the budget? What is the overall aesthetic look and feel that you're going for? And what is just a top line scope of work that you're looking for or that you're looking at getting done, so that I can make sure it's even worth my time to come over. And then the fifth thing that we do on that call is look at your own availability to book in right then and there a paid consultation. So five things, 15 minutes. It should always be 15 minutes. I think from a market perception or point or positioning point, the danger comes in when we've been on the phone for 25 to 40 minutes on that free call. And I think someone really will respect your level of professionalism when you're like, "Yep, listen, these calls are not for those questions. I'm gonna park that to the side. I'd love to come over and hear about the project. What I need to know here is whether or not I'm actually a designer who's available to you and who is able to bring you the transformation that you're looking for The next consideration with positioning is our proposal and fee presentation. Like, when you send over a number, how comfortable are you talking about money? How do you present that number? Does it come with like a, a five-page apology ahead of it? Does it arrive with like a breakdown in reasoning? Sometimes I see proposals and I swear they come off defensive. They're almost like, "This is the item and this is why you should have to pay for it." So maybe just doing a bit of reflective work, working with AI again, putting it in, asking for it to reverse engineer some opportunities for you to better communicate your value I would ask it simply, does this match the position? So you would explain how you think you wanna be in the market, and then share a recent proposal or fee presentation and actually say point out all the ways that this does meet that brief and where it doesn't and how I can, just to make sure that you're leveling up The next one's around referral partners. So I spoke in the LinkedIn sort of update around getting architects, builders, other people to refer you. But then what do you give them when you refer? Is it just a business card, or do you have something else that's referral focused? I actually think it's really good if you can hand your referrals, like a specific referral card with a QR code, and then if you can build a landing page that is "Hi there, you have arrived here through the word of-- through word of mouth from an architect, a builder, a, a peer, et cetera. This is the types of projects that I excel at. This is what I love to do. This is a little bit about me." Maybe even have a green screen behind you. "This is this project and that project." Keep it like five to eight minutes. Little introduction video at the top of the landing page, and then have really strategic copy on that page that calls out exactly what you want to say to a referral. I just think a business card, where does that position you? At what level? Do people lose it? It's cool if you could just build this one thing, and then the people referring you also know that if they're building and they're saying, "Hey, I worked with this really great designer. She's got a little page you can go check out." What, and knows that they're sending you to this clean, professional landing spot All right, that's eight little quick wins that you can do, eight little audits, eight little changes, eight teeny tiny messaging edits that could change everything really, or really help to structure your positioning in the market. If you found yourself wincing or feeling guilty at three or more, that's probably not a coincidence. It's something I see across the market. It's not unusual. We default towards that safe and broad messaging just because it feels weird to call out you're an expert or it feels weird to call out your niche sometimes. Or, Australians have that tall poppy thing, and we're not really built to actually say, "I am the only person that can do this kind of transformation," or, "I'm fantastic." But you are, all are, and I think if you're really serious about calling in that professional level, it's not in your branding and your collateral and your flat lays that are gonna call them in. It's actually in the language. So it's mirroring back language that makes your client feel safe. It's mirroring back something that says, "Yeah, look, I'm about to invest a large amount of money. This feels like the right choice for me. This designer feels like they are on top of it. They do this thing all the time. This is the kind of projects that they love to do, so I feel safe to invest in this Okay, now let's talk about how we're gonna fix it because an audit with no answers is just me saying to you, "Okay good luck." That would just make you feel anxious and lose a whole weekend to "I don't know how to change it." I mentioned using AI and doing things, but I think if you were to go back and look over the last two or three years, if you've got that much of your content, and go and find like not your biggest project, not your most liked post or like all the things that you think will attract the right client. I want you to just go and try to identify the project that made you feel the best. It felt super aligned, you were well-paid, you were energized, the scope didn't creep, you finished on time and on budget, or the budget was really healthy, and you felt really good, and you're thinking, "More of this, please." The exercise here is to find that one thing and then do a bit of a postmortem or a wrap-up or do a verbal breakdown of why it felt good, what you liked about it, what that project was all about. Put it back through Claude or ChatGPT and really start assessing for the pattern. What was the budget? Like, why did it make me feel so good? What was the scope? What was I actually doing? Is that what I wanna call out, that's my specialty? Was it a full home? Was it a full-on renovation? Or what type of client was it? Was it a first home buyer or someone who was on the tools like and wanted to get dirty and get involved in it? Or maybe like an investment property. I think it's just really good to identify and, again, work on that specifics. You'll find them hiding in your favorite project Think about also where did that project come from? Was it a referral, word of mouth, local, like area marketing, through Instagram, through a supplier, an architect? So I want you to just go and write one sentence now, which is not not a paragraph, no Tom Cruise, Jerry Maguire mission statements. Dorothy and the fish are not coming with you. I just want a single sentence that says, names the actual client, the actual outcome, not beautiful spaces and timeless interiors. Beautiful spaces and timeless interiors is true of every designer in this country, so I don't want that. It doesn't help anybody. I want something closer to like I work with couples in the Port Melbourne area who are doing whole house renovations between between 500K and 1.5 milli- I don't know, you, you may wanna just put Who are doing full house renovations 250K or above They want someone to come in, run point on the entire thing, and not just pick finishes. Fluffing the cushions is the last thing I do before I walk out of the door. So you wanna be really specific around where, what, so location, type of project, budget. So that would be, I might say I specialize in kitchens, kitchen renovations 150K and above. Like just try this out. It can't hurt, right? It's just about actually telling people what you're trying to call in. It's not going to mean that your powder room goes, "Oh, I can't use you." I think when it's done really well and y- your position is in the market, people will still double check if someone like you would do their powder room, 'cause they absolutely still wanna work with you. So you want the sentence to be your position, and it's not client-facing, so don't hold back because you think, "Oh my God, I sound like such a wanker, and I would never share this with any of my clients." This is something I want you to plaster like on your monitor, in your office, so that you start thinking, "I work on a high-end residential projects of this caliber, this amount," da. Like it's just reinforcing to you, who are you trying to speak to? So right now it's not marketing copy. It may be in the future, but right now it's just specific enough and just thinking about if somebody landed on this sentence, would they immediately know if they're my client or not? Because I wanna move you closer to that because that's called actual market positioning Then we wanna go back through the eight different touch points that I've discussed today and hold up a mirror to basically how does each of those platforms hold up to that sentence? Does the homepage say exactly that message? Does your portfolio reflect that? Does your Instagram bio make me immediately know that's the kind of thing that you're doing? Wherever the answer is no, that's kind of the gap that we wanna fix. That's the leak. That's where we wanna think could I be more specific? Could I actually tell people more about what I do?" So I think when we're just stay silent, we tell the market that we're happy to be really varied, do anything, all things for all people, and it's going to mean that you look available or sound available for something or a project that you don't actually even want You don't need to be louder to call in big work. You just need every single touch point to agree and align so that it's branding as opposed to being really contradictory and confusing. People think, "Oh, her website's really fancy, but her Insta's kind of relatable and relaxed, and then I go to the LinkedIn and that's really about her past job as a midwife or a schoolteacher or something else that she did, and I- I'm really confused." That's what we're trying to prevent with positioning into market. I think a lot of designers try to fix it with more positioning, but it's not a volume problem. It's not something I want you to throw more content at. It's more of an alignment with your audience and actually communication with your audience and being really clear about, hey, this... I think we spend so much time communicating our process. There's a lot of content out there that's like trauma dumping, or I call it process dumping, but it's like literally just h- this is how you work with a designer. This is what I do. Step one, step two the design phase, concept phase. People are not there yet. You're dragging them into a place they're not ready with. Imagine if you put that same focus into content that was like, "Hey, I'm obsessed with this. I'm gonna use it in this project. This is the kind of thing I would do with this. This is a kitchen and how I... exactly how I would make it how I would take your $60,000 investment and make it look like $150,000." That content slaps. People will watch that. I think, if you wanna go viral, like people are always asking like, "Oh, what reels? What should I do?" 100% talk dollars, figures, specifics. If you walk through a kitchen and say, the appliances in this kitchen look high-end, but we dropped X amount of money on them. We did that on purpose so we could spend more money on this. Check it out," and you open something or spin something around, and then you're like, "Okay, so let's talk actual figures because the hardware that we chose in here came in under $5,000, which might shock some of you, but yes, it costs money to have beautiful things." Like, when you put the price tags on... And that's a cute idea too. Go and walk around your reel and then edit in the little graphics of like price tag, price tag, price tag, and like talk about the money. People will save it. They will share it. They appreciate the transparency, and they will reach out to you in your DMs to be like, "Oh, I'm thinking about... We're doing a kitchen reno. What's this? What's that?" That's how you become an expert. It's sharing what you're fantastic at and positioning yourself as that expert. Okay, we went through things like website audits, a little bit of marketing, that sort of stuff. That's exactly what I do in Studio CEO, which is not Studio Build. Studio Build is about infrastructure and AI and building like CRMs and building out all of the different things. I've spoken about it on the podcast before. Studio CEO is business and marketing coaching for interior designers. It's 12 weeks where we go through your local strategy, your digital strategy, your CEO mindset and how you actually be more commercial in business. We talk about a lot of these things. We do full website and branding audits, and we just slow down and coach you up everywhere that you feel that you're a bit underdeveloped or undercooked. We focus on those areas. It's very bespoke to the group, and the group is five people or less. So I'm only running this one more time this year. I am gonna kick it off at the end of September, and we're gonna run it through to the Christmas holidays. It's one of my favorite things to do. Everyone that's ever done it with me, we're still in contact all the time. There's these little pockets of groups, and it's that community that is really special to me as well. These groups are really nice because they're so intimate. We really get cracked in, and there's such growth amongst everyone. So if you're interested in that, you can just check it out on the website, www.rhiannon-lee.com. You can go to the Studio CEO page. You can reach out to me on Instagram. If you make any changes to any of these eight areas, I would love for you to show them to me. If you would like my consumer eyes on your brand, please feel free to drop into my DMs @the_rhiannonlee and say, "Could you go to my Insta? Could you go to my LinkedIn? Could you go to my website," et cetera. Just pick one and tell me what you think my position is in the market. And I'm not as harsh as Claude. I won't roast you. I won't be rude. I will be truthful. I always am. I will find a kind way to tell you what I think or where I think you're putting yourself out there into the market. This works best if you haven't worked with me before though, because once I've got real insights into your business, I can't be as objective as I would be. If you don't know me and you want to, please reach out, and I will come across and tell you where I think there's some opportunity for you and w- what I think you're actually saying to market. And then if that's wrong, we can work on it together. Anyway, I hope this has been helpful. Next week, I have an interview with Mandie from Infinite Designs. I can't wait to speak to her. I just wanna unpack what's happened in her career to date, where she's off to next. She's got 20 years in the industry. I'm sure she's gonna have some banging insights for us, and I will bring that to you next Thursday. Okay, bye for now. that wraps up another episode of Designing Success: From Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend. Your feedback means so much to me, and it helps me improve, but it also helps this podcast reach more emerging and evolving designers just like you. For your daily dose of design business tips and to get a closer look at what goes on behind the scenes, follow on Instagram. You'll find tons of resources available at www.oleanderandfinch.com to support you on your journey. Remember, this is your path, your vision, your future, and your business. Now let's get out there and start designing your success.