EPISODE 21 - THE GENESIS WITH BROOK STANSBURY

David's first recorded podcast with a guest (non family)

This conversation was recorded on 9/16/2025 just days after Charlie Kirk's passing and was a center point of this wonderful conversation. 

I love this conversation so much and I know you will too!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

So say what you want to say. You could satisfy it to my name. Talk about all the times I made you say. Make all my mistakes, but I hope every night. Maybe just between you and I. When you are lonely, you remember the good love. I think I love you. I think I love you. You remember the good love. I think I love you.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Before we get into today's show, I'd like to take a quick word for our sponsor. Sponsors are super important to me, and I take them very seriously. There are so many great and valuable products in the world which genuinely provide value, and I believe it. And there's also so many people who take advantage of people due to their unhealed spiritual damage and greed. And I use this time in the podcast to highlight the beautiful businesses that provide true value back to the people who invest their time and money into the business. I spend a lot of time and energy vetting the things I use and even more time and honesty coming to you all with a sponsor for the show. So, no, anytime I have a sponsor on the podcast, it is something I use, highly recommend, trust, and have vetted rigorously, almost like I'm an investor in the company itself. I will also stand behind the vision of the sponsor, the founder, and their company's values. I will not have any sponsors on my show which do not meet this criteria. Thank you for listening and recognizing that sponsors allow the podcast to grow and allow me to spend more time and resources in making a better show for you guys. So thank you to our sponsors and thank you to you guys for tuning in. Today's sponsor is Coherence. Coherence is a wonderful breath work app you can download to your phone right now. Guys, you have to know I could not be more aligned with the mission and vision of Coherence as a company. The concept is simple. Breath heals you when done properly. Proper breath work is healing the spirit. How long have I been saying this? In fact, in order to get this sponsor, I basically harassed their founder with DMs asking them to sponsor me like they were my seventh-grade crush. Shout out, Natalia. Because I love their app so much. I use it every day, four to five times a day. The truth is, nearly all of us don't know how to breathe deeply and properly because we were never taught from our education system, which is supposed to teach us the right things. Like maybe how to breathe properly. But we never worked the muscle of our breath. See, many of us are breathing shallowly, and when we get into the app, you'll see you can be so much more relaxed, breathing so much more deeply. And it really challenges you to go further with your breath. I love breath work because it's one of the ultimate revealers we have in our tool belt. What I mean by that is it allows you to see issues in both your breath, your focus, your posture, your health, your body, and your life in general with a lot more clarity just by breathing it out and coming back to center. The breath centers you into the moment. I do this before I meditate, before I sleep, before I eat. It enhances everything. You have to deeply breathe to allow your cells, your body, and everything to function optimally. Coherence is a phenomenal tool, a breathwork app you can download to your phone, which easily and visually walks you through ancient yogi breath work practices which promote different states of being, whether you want more energy, focus, calm, vagus nerve activation, and an overall tool you should consider if you want to optimize health, stress, and anti-aging. What I love about the app and why it's better than just doing it on your own is when I'm doing breath work, I often lose count of my inhales and exhales. And frankly, I don't want to have to think about the timing while I'm doing it. I want to be able to look at a screen or hear audible cues showing me the exact timing so I can shut off my brain and really just focus on my inhalation, exhalation, and breath holds. I want to know I'm doing it right and getting the most out of it. Also, I want to be able to know how long I've been doing it so I can stay on task if I only have two minutes or five minutes, or if I have 20 minutes. Coherence solves all these issues by providing you with a beautiful visual and auditory cue on when to breathe, as well as giving you a timer and many different patterns you can use. So it allows you to just focus on breathing and turn off your mind, which allows you to go deeper into the practice in healing. It's incredible. Coherence has all kinds of patterns I've never heard of, which get me into crazy states of calm, peace, and energy, like the vortex pattern, a personal favorite. And my favorite hack of all is I open my two favorite apps at once. I open Coherence and get going on a longer 10-minute, 15-minute practice, which allows me to really totally reset my nervous system. And then I open up YouTube and tune into a video I'm dialed into. This allows me to enjoy my favorite content in the most relaxed and focused state while benefiting my biology and my mind. Imagine doing this while studying and watching a video of something you need to retain and learn and understand. Forget about Adderall, you have nature's Adderall, your focused and concentrated breath. It's the ultimate pleasure and productivity hack. Who says you can't have both? Okay, so you can get my free 30-day trial to coherence to see for yourself all the incredible benefits of breath work by using the code AppleBomb in the promo section when you sign up to get 30 days for free in their app. Normally they only give you 10 days for free, I think, or seven days. And no strings attached. Feel free to cancel any time, but I promise you you'll want to continue using the app as much as you can. And it is only$10 a month afterwards. That's code AppleBomb, A-P-P-L-E-B-A-U-M, my last name, when you sign up for the free 30-day trial. Happy breath, happy next steps. And now into your episode. Dear God, thank you for gathering us on such a beautiful, glorious day. Thank you for giving us such a beautiful planet. So much beauty in the nature around us and in our eyes, ears, noses, all the senses. I'm so grateful for this moment. I'm grateful for this opportunity to enhance the collective physical, mental, and spiritual. I'm very grateful. Please allow this podcast to be as beautiful as possible. Please allow it to enhance the collective, mental, physical, and spiritual as much as possible. And please bring the words out of both my own and my guests' mouth as a vehicle to enhance the collective mental, physical, and spiritual beauty and love that I know is present within us all. Thank you so much, God, for gathering us for this special occasion. Amen. Need a couple seconds after I pray to pray to uh, you know, kind of recalibrate with where I am because my eyes are closed, but uh I am uh very grateful, folks. We have a very special guest on the show today for the first podcast that is an actual podcast for in terms of just talking and um guest interaction about whatever it is that comes to us. Um my first actual podcast was recorded with my grandfather, that was last week, and that was more just a recounting interview on his life, but this is the first like guest experience podcast, and there's no one I would rather have than you, Commander Stansberry. Brooke Stansberry, everyone. Um, so he is he is here with us today. He is uh I'm very grateful to have met him. He's a a new acquaintance of mine, and I figure like there's no one more perfect to have this like first kind of like actual conversation with than someone who I would say believes in me and believes in the show and believes in the podcast, and enough so that he's taken time out of his days off to record content and be my kind of first videographer.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Um, so yeah, man, I'm very grateful to have you and welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Glad to be here. Um reference. I am not actually a commander in any formal sense, it is just a way me and Mr. Applewom entertain ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

At work. So I met Brooke at work, so this is a uh little intro to that. Uh, we met at work recently um in our fine working environment. We work at the Four Seasons Minneapolis in their restaurants, and um yeah, their fine dining restaurant, Mara. So if you ever want to find us and you are listening to this podcast and we're still there, that's where we are. So this podcast is being recorded on September 16th, 2025. This podcast will likely be uploaded a few months, maybe even in 2026. So I haven't told you yet, Brooke. I just want to start off the show, kind of giving a little context with that the date. I haven't told you yet, but the first seven episodes of my podcast are direct teaching episodes on basically my values and my principles and the things that I see probably never changing. So, in the future, when I kind of have like kind of more, I want to say, conversations that are high stakes, you could say, or a lot of kind of potential um going into things with maybe some some disagreements, you could say, or whatever, whatever have you. It's like I can kind of instruct the listeners and the guest at the time, like, well, these have kind of always been my stances on these things. So, like the first episode's about forgiveness. Uh it's actually the second episode. The first intro episode's an intro, second episode's on forgiveness, third's on meditation, fourth is on purpose, fifth is on health, sixth is on family, and seven's on spirituality. So I have four of those episodes up on Spotify as we speak. I have all the episodes written, I just need to record them and upload them. Okay. Um, so however long it takes me to do that. But for now, I'm glad you're here. Commander stands very he is a commander, folks. He is a commander, he's he's downplaying that, he knows how to shoot a rifle. Uh, that's a joke. He is not a commander. I I think uh we we have uh a great form of entertainment at work. We we pretend that like our job in the restaurant, which is very uh kind of I don't want to say mundane, but maybe repetitive, maybe um can get a little mundane at times. We want to kind of uh spice things up so we pretend we're like military like ops.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Like storming a base, and sometimes like Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

We'll just substitute like common tasks for like movie reference military jargon just to make things a little bit more interesting. And I'm sure at some point our coworkers probably think these guys are what what are these guys doing?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

They're losing their noggins.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Yeah, they're they got screws loose.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Um no, but yeah, well uh I think my favorite was when you went at one point I just heard you say uh I don't know, you've had a few good ones, but one of them was just like out of nowhere, just put her my leg!

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Oh the yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love that one.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

My leg!

SPEAKER_01 13:53

My leg! Um that is very grim and um sad though, at the same time. So we don't want to make light of that uh because we are very, I think I can speak for both of us when we say we are very grateful for the amazing uh contributions that all military have made to America and just around the world. Um I find it like very I wanted to get your thoughts on that while we're on that. Yeah. Just like this idea of like America. It's like I find myself whenever like we're thinking like people are just like, like, first of all, like where I'm from, um, like I'm from Minnesota. You're from you were born, I believe, in the Midwest, but then you moved to New Mexico.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

That was one of the first, so one of the real quick before I get into this point, one of the first, I knew I liked Brooke. The first thing I just remember, like, I'm asking him about his backstory, and he's like, Yeah, I'm from, I'm from like, grew up in the or I was born in the Midwest, and then my family moved to New Mexico. And then I was asking him about New Mexico, and then he was just like, gave me this like long kind of blank stare, and he's like, Yeah, we're sick. I was like, I was like, Yep, alright. That makes a ton of sense. I like this guy already. Um, because yeah, I'm uh desert, I love the desert too. I've spent a lot of time in California, but so we're all from like these places, right? And like we have this inherent, I believe, like pride, right? It's like obviously I love Minnesota, I'm from here. Right. And obviously, I kind of love America, I'm from here. Um, and I think that that is nothing to be like ashamed of.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

No.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

No matter, like, kind of where the country, I mean, maybe if the country goes to an extremely, extremely dark place, obviously, I think my opinion is we're in a dark place. But I think if we go to like an abhorrent place, I I honestly think we're we are in an abhorrent place, but I mean like if we're like killing people, if we're like setting up concentration camps, then like obviously like I'm would be ashamed to be an American.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

But I guess more from the sense of like forget about the politics, like there is like this just inherent sense of like the land that I'm from. Like, this is like we're here in Minnesota right now, we're recording this out in beautiful nature, like I love this land because like I was born here, and I think that that's a very human thing about us. Like, I think every human probably feels that way and like should feel that way. But at the same time, there's something about me, and I want to kind of hear how what you think about this, is like I'm a kind of no borders kind of guy, like I don't see the point in like only focusing on like let's just make America as great as it can be. Like, I'm like, how do we make the world as great as it can be? That's kind of the way I think about things, and I understand both mindsets, but like I wonder kind of your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Oh, that's a lot to think about, but yeah, I think I mean personally, like I just have a lot of gratitude to like just be just for wherever I grew up and wherever like I formed my formative years and even the places that like I've had the opportunities to go, like it's just it's wonderful to like be of such kind of varied perspectives. Like I've had the opportunity to go to countries in Europe, um and I think I'll I will have hopefully the opportunity to see uh parts of South America um and yeah, I think sometimes it's it's almost kind of disappointing to see people like pigeonhole their perspectives to like a national level and like take so much pride in the nation that they happen to be born in, which is completely random and like has no like you know, we're not sitting on a loading screen before we load into this life thinking where do I wanna go? Where do I wanna go? You know, with geez, I wanna I wanna set myself up best. I'm gonna be I'm gonna pick the United States, or I want it really hard, so I'm gonna go to this, you know, third world country and be a part of this, you know, really impoverished part of the city, or whatever, you know, example you can think of to like kind of gamify this life into like picking and choosing how we came into existence. Um I think I'm kind of losing my train of thought here a little bit, but like No, I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Like you you basically what you're saying is like pigeonholing yourself. Like that's that was kind of the point you were making. Like, you never understood the the sense of like pigeonholing yourself to like only strictly like a national look on things. Right. Well that's that's the kind of the one of the main philosophies I have. It's like, well, okay, let's just say theoretically, like America get America gets to like the greatest place like we've ever gotten to.

SPEAKER_05 19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Like, but like there's like all these like countries that are like severely suffering. Like at a certain point, that suffering is going to impact America.

SPEAKER_05 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

And that's kind of my belief about like everything is connected, which is like I think a belief that not a lot of people want to look at really closely because that's kind of a scary thing for a lot of spirits to examine is like, oh my, like my actions are like literally like every action matters. Like, if I move this twig five feet to the right, like now that twig is five feet to the right for everyone on the planet. Yeah. And like, yeah, that's probably an inconsequential thing, but like, let's take like me littering on the highway. Like, let's just say I throw my whole McDonald's bag out my car window, right? While I'm driving on the highway. Ten cars see that.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Now all of a sudden, two out of those ten cars are gonna think that's an okay thing to do. Yeah. And that kind of stuff. So basically, through humans learn through osmosis. So everything is connected through osmosis. We if if all of us are pessimistic, or if a large percentage of us are pessimistic, guess what? We're all connected to that. Yeah, we're all connected to the pessimism or whatever the collective is going through. We are all connected energetically. So um, I just find that to be an extremely important thing to keep in mind because like I said, like, even if America, like I just don't understand, I guess, like I love America, but at the same time, like I love myself. Yeah, and I love the world, and I want to live in the best world possible because I love myself. So that means that like if you love if you inherently love yourself, you have to love others. That's how it works. Like, that's the paradox of truth that. So I do care about New Guinea or whatever. Is that even a country? Yeah. I I'm very bad with geography. But like that is a country. I do care about like you know the Czech Republic or whatever whatever.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

I don't think the Czech Republic exists the same one.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

What where does where's Prague?

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Prague? Oh, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Isn't Prague in like whatever. I w I went to Prague. Whatever country Prague is in. I think Prague's in. I thought it was in the Czech Republic. Um. It doesn't matter. Whatever you get the point. Um he's looking it up right now. He's he's jamieing.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Oh, yeah. I'll I'll jamie a little bit here.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Jamie. We got Jamie on the mic. We're we're Rogan, but we're outside, folks. That's that's our goal here. No.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Oh, no, yeah, you're right. I was wrong. Yeah. Yeah, the Czech Republic.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Right, yeah. I had just been there six years ago. I hope I got that right. But yeah, so like I do care about every country because eventually things get back to you. And this is like a fundamental. I don't want to kind of get on my my uh my preaching soap opera box right right to start off this podcast. But um, so anyways, I wanted to to we're recording this kind of at a um interesting time because most recently we had um a really horrific thing happen in our society.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

We had a couple.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Really I mean, we've had a lot of horrific things happen recently, but um to me we had a very monumental moment, and you and I had spoken about this kind of on the phone about it. Right, and I thought that your interaction was kind of really interesting and important for I think understanding. So we're recording this about I think five days, six days after uh Charlie Kirk was murdered. Um in broad daylight, he was shot by a sniper about 200 yards away. Yeah. Um a horrific thing. Um, and just for kind of full disclosure here, um I have my opinion just so for my listeners, my opinion on Charlie Kirk. Um, Charlie Kirk is someone that I have seen maybe 25 minutes of his content before this incident. I've watched a little bit more now because he died, sadly, and I wanted to just learn a little bit more about him, but like I'm pretty uninformed about Charlie Kirk. I do know kind of his his stance, so to speak, on the chessboard of politics. I knew I know kind of what he's about, I know his like kind of divisiveness in terms of that, like where he stands, um, and in this kind of weird political climate we find ourselves in. But um, Charlie Kirk is someone that I know very little about. Um, and I think that that is kind of a healthy way to kind of look at things. I'd like to think that I kind of understand kind of that pretty well. Like, I feel like I'm pretty healthy in terms of like, well, I haven't consumed 10 hours of Charlie Kirk content because I'm or a hundred hours of Charlie Kirk content because I'm obsessed with like for example, like my grandpa. He is very, I love my grandpa so much, but he's very anti-Trump. But he spends every single day watching the news, MSNBC, CNN, first five hours a day, 365 days a year, that adds up to I mean, he's probably watched a million hours of Trump content, and he hates the man. So it's like at a certain point here, what is going on with the spirit? And my my my take on it is there's some kind of like understanding, like the spirit is trying to understand. Like, I I I wrote this in my fourth episode, why anyone becomes a hater. It's because you're trying, you're basically just trying to understand. Like, that's why you're watching, you're you're trying to learn. Like, you're trying, like, that's why you're watching, that's why you're engaging in the content. Like, yeah, for me, there was nothing really more to learn about Charlie Kirk other than like, okay, he's this kind of divisive guy who I agree with a lot of what he has to say, I disagree with some of what he has to say, I disagree with some of the ways he goes about you know, his business, but like, there's nothing more I need to understand here, there's nothing more I need to obsess about here, there's nothing more I need to like hate here, there's nothing more I need to love here. He's just a human being. I love him as a human being. So I thought what was really interesting though, I want to get you to hear uh talk about it. Why don't you kind of tell us, if you're comfortable, kind of your reaction to it and kind of maybe some of the stuff you told me on the phone about it.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

Okay, yeah. Um so God, I was at work when I when I heard that um Charlie Kirk got shot. And um I remember, I think that what you said kind of frames it really well. Like I I watched a lot of Charlie Kirk because I think that at the root of it I was trying to understand and empathize with who Charlie Kirk was as a person. And for reverence, I don't really I didn't I never really liked Charlie Kirk. Uh I think that he had to his credit, I think that Charlie Kirk was really good in debate settings. I think that he thrived in the pursuit of understanding and defending his personal beliefs about things when he was confronted by other people. Um and I think that I think that Charlie Kirk I think we need to give credit to him because you know, he was somebody that would go to college campuses and essentially would throw himself into a den of wolves and try and fight his way out because you know, he had these polarizing opinions and a lot of people on these campuses didn't agree with him. And so they would try their best to take down his arguments, you know, in person. And I think that in a larger, you know from a from a larger standpoint, Charlie Kirk was doing a good thing, just promoting discourse. Because I think that, you know, being able to talk with somebody and hash out different percent agreement hash out arguments and either redefine or reevaluate your values through a conversation and at the end of it, you know, come away with a better understanding of your understanding of that person and their ideals in comparison to your understanding of your ideals. Does a great job for the collective, but to me, when I heard Charlie Kirk was killed, I think ashamedly, and like like I'm ashamed of it now, but like there was there was some sense of relief when I heard that news that like he had been shot and killed. And like, you know, I was almost yeah, it like uh I'm ashamed to admit that I was relieved that like I heard that he was killed and like I thought that there was something good that would come out of that. But I think almost immediately I realized I was like, fuck, sorry, sorry for custody, but like that was just uh that was just the death of you know the reaction that I had with myself was like, oh my goodness. Like how could I, you know, lower myself to such an extent where like the death of another person made me happy. And like how could I hinge my you know ability or or even like my mood on like the livelihood of somebody else? And like that was just like for me, it was like that made me like reevaluate my own values as a person. And I think moving away from it, I was like that's just not that's never that's just not okay to like not not only like and then and then like you know I had to start thinking about like the other perspectives in the play of this incident, like the person who took Charlie's life, like fundamentally not okay to just like self-appoint yourself not only the executioner role, but the judge and the jury's role, you know, to then take the life. And I just don't think it was it was really all that fair at all coming away from you know this moment and like reevaluating, just like, damn man, you know, I really shouldn't have celebrated as much as I could should have.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Or or even did at that point.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

I think I think his death really serves as like the ultimate mirror.

unknown 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

In a large way, I do think that there can be a lot of good that can come out of his death, and I am like now my reaction to it is like I'm a huge Charlie Kirk fan now. And keep in mind, I am, I think that fundamentally, if you are a Democrat or a Republican, I think you, and this is a fundamental belief, I think you are missing the point spiritually. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

I'd agree.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Um, I think we've we've come to that place where that's just the reality of things, and I think that we need to quickly, more quickly come to that place, and I think that his death serves as a great learning opportunity mirror for us to really examine ourselves spiritually, and I think he would be so happy to know that. I truthfully think he would be so happy, and there's a this concept of like the spirit picks its life, like the a lot of mentors and people that I follow have been saying, like, this is the time that Charlie chose to exit. Yeah, like he had this in his contract when he came to this planet, like he was gonna do this, and like in some sense, like obviously, whatever we're saying right now, we want to just be very cognizant of the fact that, like, our condolences go to his entire family, and we're really a life was lost, and it's very sad. Absolutely, and that is like the main kind of undertone of all this, but like, how can what are the good things that can come out of a tragedy like this? And I think that the fact that it was a turning point, really spiritually, like, how much more tragedy do we need? And I'm I'm not sure that the answer is we need much more. I think we are finally reaching a precipice in humanity where like evil is only there by God for us to understand. This is my fundamental other belief that like evil is there so we know light. And I think that we are getting to a place where consciousness where there are enough spiritually ascendant people where like we are creating a new earth to the point where like soon, like we won't need any more evil because we just understand all that is evil, and so we can just move to good. And I think that that is a fundamental belief that I hold with 100% conviction in my heart, spirit that we are moving past this evil period in our humanity, both internally and externally, and it's it starts internally with all of us, we are all part of the world. Like I said, if I move this twig five feet to the right, who knows? Maybe a uh deer won't trip, whatever, whatever it is, like everything has a cause and effect, and if you think that nothing has a cause and effect, you are a very damaged person. And so I I think that we had to kind of start the show off with Charlie Kirk because part of the Applebaum incident is talking about the incidents around the world, and I know it's can be uncomfortable and sad, and but this is a major, in my opinion, this is potentially the biggest news since 9-11. Just the magnitude of what that this can bring, and in in my opinion, it could even bring even more like I I feel I feel strongly that in like 25-30 years I'll be talking about Charlie Kirk and like this turning point. Like, I feel that with so much conviction because at the end of the day, he was just a dude talking about his views. I get it if you disagree with him, but like to to think want him dead means that you there's a part of you inside of you that you are not acknowledging that needs to heal. And I don't mean to be kind of attacking you now personally, I just I know you don't take it that way, but I I I want to ask you about this. What do you think, like, because I I've been thinking about this, like, and it has to do with this Charlie Kirk incident, like another kind of like belief that I kind of I think you should listen to my first few podcast episodes, because they they have all of these things that I'm kind of talking about. And another another thing I say in one of the first episodes is that like I truly believe that if humans just like you take like two like what we'd say, oh, different. Oh, they're so different. Yeah, one of them looks different than the other one. Okay. Two humans that look different. Put them in a room. Let's say it's like a castle or something. Make it make it make it a cool room, you know.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Come on, why not? And um put two chairs in there. They sit down in the chairs, give them all the food that they need, all the water that they need, and they're in there for I want to say 10,000 hours. And they start with the fact that, and the given is one of them has to love ketchup, and the other one has to love mustard, and they have to think that mustard is disgusting, and the other one thinks that ketchup is disgusting, right? Or they, yeah, whatever. And that's the disagreement that they have. They're in this room, yeah, and they're talking about that, and maybe they talk about a few other disagreements that they have. Do you think that after 10,000 hours of talking that they would actually agree? Or at least come to an understanding of how the other one can can like, oh, like this is their background, this is how they were raised, this is the things they love they ate when they were younger. That's why they like ketchup more than mustard, like, and they like legitimately come to this like complete like understanding because it's it's my fundamental belief that all of our problems are because we just two two reasons. One, we can't sit in a room quiet uh alone, can't sit alone in a in a in a quiet room, and two, we can't sit with someone who is different than us in a quiet room and just come to some understandings for hours on end. I think we just haven't spent enough time getting to know each other. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Oh, I I I I mean that was the literally like the first thought that I had when you were describing this situation. It was like I knew almost intuitively, I'd be like, the only result of that ever happening would be either, you know, they kill each other and they die in that room, or they come to a mutual understanding about why they have the beliefs that they believe. Whether they disagree or not, there would be a mutual understanding and respect for the opinions that they have.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

And like But why do you think they would kill each other?

SPEAKER_03 40:56

That seems Well, I think this is kind of like the other side of the coin. It's like is kind of this like good and evil side of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

It's like you have this route, which is like the collective good, which is like, you know, recognizing the beauty and like this is another person experiencing the world just as I am in this moment. This is their first time going around. And if I can recognize that, then I can respect and love and appreciate the reasons and mental faculties that gave them the ability to come to this conclusion. Or they reject this humanity and the other person because they're so uh fundamentally entrenched in their own beliefs that they reject everything about this other person and would believe that this other person should cease to exist. But do you think that in kind of a mutually assured destruction situation?

SPEAKER_01 41:58

But do you think that if someone comes to that dark conclusion, that don't you think that that person themselves is in a place of self-hatred? To have to to come to the point where you think someone needs to die Right, again isn't isn't isn't that a fundamental I'm I I'm I'm asking you genuinely. I'm like I I I think that we need to come to the understanding as humanity that like if you think someone needs to die, for whatever reason, at any point, yeah, that is coming from inside of you from a damaged place. That is my fundamental belief. And I'm open to I'm open if you disagree with me on anything, by the way. I I know I come out strong, but it is my fundamental belief that if you think anyone needs to die, including Hitler, I mean, obviously Hitler needed to be stopped. He needed his his his actions to be ceased immediately. His actions needed to never have happened.

SPEAKER_05 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

But for people like that that are so damaged that they want to go on mass killing sprees, we just need to lock them up until they can come to any kind of sense. And maybe maybe they can't come to any kind of sense in this lifetime. But I'm not I'm not excusing murderers, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that murderers and anyone doesn't deserve to die just because you have this intolerance within you of humanity.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

Yeah, that's how I would frame it. It's like I agree with you about oh, like people who believe that it's more valuable to take the Of another person is just I think at its core, like rejecting humanity. So, like to them, it's like there is no humanity in this other person. So they should be removed from their own version of humanity. Right. And they're not understanding.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

See how such how how what a fallacy that is? Like to think that, like, to look at another human and be like, they're not a human. Like, sorry, buddy. What's the uh game, the game show, uh, the game show sound effect?

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Oh, the um family feud with the big X on the screen. Wrong answer, not on the board.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Exactly. Like, yeah, uh I'm pretty sure uh they don't have wings, they don't have uh, you know, that they have a human anatomy. Right. Like they are human. And so I think when we reject other people's humanity, that's a very scary place to go. I think any fallacy is a very scary place to go, and that's kind of one of the main points of me kind of having this podcast is like I want to figure out the truth in everything. Because fallacy is a very fallacy for those who are maybe younger don't know the word, just means false. Falseness.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Like it is a lie. It's a false idea. Yeah. So like here's a here's an example of a fallacy. Like, I well this there's a few, but maybe I'm able to pick a less divisive one. Um, this tree can fly. Right here that I'm looking at. Well, that I'm sorry. Maybe in another reality, maybe on another planet, the trees can fly. So maybe that's not a complete fallacy, and that's why I think it's important that we keep an open mind to things. But in this reality, this tree cannot fly. Maybe if I'm on drugs, the tree can fly. But that's why another that's another reason why drugs are not the best course of action for especially for kids, and especially if you I mean, in in 99.999999% of cases, my opinion is that drugs are not a good course of action. I think there can be use cases for things like psilocybin, for things like cannabis to have therapeutic effects. That is my opinion. Anyways, so that's what a fallacy is. So that's one of the main things. The whole point of the podcast is to kind of figure out truth from fiction, and that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on, is like I feel like you're you're a straight shooter. Like you just said, like, when Charlie Kirk died, like my reaction was ashamed. Like, and first of all, like I just want to tell you, like, and anyone listening that had that reaction, please don't be ashamed. Like, please, like forgive yourself for having that.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah. Like I I would say that too. Like, give yourself some grace. Yeah. And like appreciate the fact that you were able to recognize that that was not an appropriate reaction to have, and can hopefully lead you to a better place when it comes to your perspective on life.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

But for sure, recognize that, because that is the truth. Like, that that's kind of the whole conversation we just had the last 20 minutes is like, that's the truth. Like recognizing that taking joy or desiring another human to be dead in any circumstance is coming from a place of damage.

unknown 48:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

And I've been there. We've all been there. Like, you're just like, it's like that feeling where you just want to like not not not like.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Hold on. This is actually um what you're talking about is actually getting at a philosophical logical fallacy.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

It's I don't exactly know what it is, but it's essentially you present an argument that you assume to be true based off of what you're assuming will happen. So, like the idea, hypothetically, that let's say Donald Trump would be better dead, or the world would be better off if Donald Trump was dead, is assuming that Donald Trump's death is better for the world based off of the assumed realities that would come from his death, which is a logical fallacy, because we cannot confirm nor deny that any future would be better or worse based off of the choice that we would make in the present.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

So that in to to help aid the listeners when it comes to fallacies is sometimes arguments will just inherently feel off. And sometimes that happens because there is a fallacy woven into the logical reasoning behind an argument.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Well, this ties into fear a little bit, but I don't want to get there quite yet because I I want to make I want to talk about fear, and I want that to be a pretty large discussion, but I don't want to get there quite yet. But I feel like every decision you have, I guess, kind of relates to what you just said. It's like, well, do I go get lunch at Chipotle or do I go to Quiznos? I've actually never been to Quiznos.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

But I've never been.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

I don't even know if they still exist. I don't know. You don't need to jam me that one, but uh let's not for the same. We don't we don't need to go to Quiznos. Don't go to Quiznos. Actually, we'll give Quiznos some credit. Go to Quiznos if it exists, folks, if you'd like. But um It's like you never know the future. And so I guess aren't you based on what you just said about Donald Trump, aren't you kind of always making a logical fallacy in that way? Like you someone at Chipotle could have a knife and kill you.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

So I guess I don't understand what you're saying with your with the Chipotle.

SPEAKER_03 50:57

But let's say, like, if I don't go to Chipotle because I think somebody at Chipotle has a knife and is going to kill me, that would not make sense. Because I can't assume that that's going to happen. Right. Like that that argument, like if I presented that argument to you.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

But you're saying you can assume that if you go to Chipotle, the cat you'll get your burrito bowl and the cashier will be pleasant, sleek, give it, give it to you, and you'll walk out of the doors and go home. Like you can make that assumption.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

I mean, you like you I guess what I'm trying to say is why why can you make why can't you make the negative assumption, but you can make the positive assumption?

SPEAKER_03 51:44

Well, I mean, either is still committing to that logical fallacy. I mean if the reason I'm going to Chipotle is because I'm fairly certain that I'm going to get the cashier's number, that's committing to a future that doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

So it's it's placing your logic into an illogical uh assumption or but I guess what I'm saying is at a certain point you're gonna just have to make a decision do you go to Chipotle or Quisnos?

SPEAKER_03 52:22

So like Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

You have to run your life, I guess, on these assumptions of the future.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

Yeah, you can, but what I'm what these fallacies do is like they remove the logic from the equation. So like it's illogical to assume that like me going to Chipotle will result in this outcome because it hasn't happened. It would be more logical to think like I personally enjoy this specific combination at Chipotle. If I go to Chipotle, I can get that combination.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Therefore, I'm going to Chipotle to get that combination.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

That is just fairly simple logic to make a decision based off of. But like placing your hopes and logical reasoning into an outcome that you cannot confirm logically will happen is falling into a fallacy.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Right, right. That's what fallacy is. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Yeah. There's a there's a term for it, but I don't know it off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

No, it's it's it's I what you're saying is we need to be grounded in reality.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

That's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 53:32

Yeah, or like just like the the value of logical reasoning, like philosophically, um can definitely assist people when it comes to not only like defending their own moral standpoints, but also continuing to make decisions that resonate with them in a meaningful manner.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Like, and of course, I think that I think also at at some level um logic will fail you when it comes to making decisions. Like there are there is a certain amount of just like faith and hope that that you sometimes have to commit to to kind of bridge this gap where logic will kind of start to break down. And this kind of comes from like I've been I've been reading and listening to a lot of like uh philosophical literature and podcasts, and um I'm particularly fascinated by like um this kind of existentialist uh realm of philosophy where they kind of um and like my memory's not serving me because like I wish I could tell you that like because there because there's like a difference between like there's two schools of thought. There's existentialism and then I believe there's another one, and it all kind of deals with like uh like existence uh and kind of where it comes from. Um and I wish I could better articulate it for the listeners, but um basically this kind of absurdist existentialism started to evolve, where like when you remove all these like societal preconceived notions about the world, the world starts to become a little bit strange. And like you start to like break down you know all of these preconceived notions, like what we're looking at here is this tree here, right? And inherently we have the knowledge and the definition, you know, linguistically of what a tree is, and philosophically there is, you know, books and books about you know metaphysical aspects of what makes a tree a tree, and then it all kind of leads us to this understanding of that that's a tree right there. Like what we're looking at is a tree. But this kind of absurdist philosophy is like, well, without all of these preconceived notions, like how would I come to any reasonable conclusion that this is like a tree? And it just kind of it it gives an interesting perspective to life because it removes a lot of convenient outlets into pigeonholing yourself into like schools of thought or religious ideologies and kind of throws you into the thralls of like consciously thinking about the world and trying to understand it without all this knowledge base and stuff. And I think it's just particularly fascinating because of how interesting the world can become and how beautiful the world can become when you look at it through this kind of existential lens. Like sadly, the listeners are not able to observe the beauty around us. I picked a good spot, guys. Did I not? You did pick a wonderfully beautiful spot that we're sitting at right now.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

I'm very happy right now.

SPEAKER_03 57:07

To describe, we've got this kind of shady grotto, you know, nestled into the cove of this lake, and the sun is, you know, beautifully shining through the shade of the trees, so we're not getting hit and beated on by the sun. And you know, the leaves are all spectacularly different shades of green.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

It's September 16th, so we've got a little fall starting, but it's a hot, it's a hot fall day.

SPEAKER_03 57:37

It's 85 at least. But the humidity and the breeze is just enough to make it pleasant and enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

God gave us such a great day to do this.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

This is amazing. We're we're meant to be right here right now.

SPEAKER_03 57:50

Like, I just and and what I'm trying to get at is like just just removing yourself from these, you know, these notions of of everything that is ever around me and everything that I know that it's around me kind of puts you into this state of like, oh my god, this place is so cool.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's almost like the ignorance is bliss when we start to kind of define things and have such a rigid definition of everything.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Yeah, that's a good that's a good thing to add to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Like, it's like at a certain point, like this is kind of why I say like I agree with Naval Ravacant when he says specialization is for insects. It's like oh man, do I really want to know what kind of tree this is, and like, or what kind of flower that is, and like when it blooms, and like how it blooms, and like maybe I do because I want to start a garden one day. And like, but like, do I really want to know that about everything there is in the world at all times, and I constantly want to be giving myself definitions and rigidity, and oh, because I know the facts, and then I can spew the facts to this guy on my work trip and look smart, or this girl on the date and look smart. It's like at a certain point, I just want to look at this beautiful scenery and just be, yeah, and that's what creates peace. Peace doesn't come from being better than John and Christy because I know when the hydrangeas plop up, and like, yeah, like maybe you are into hydrangeas, and that's cool, but like I feel like at a certain point we like overdrown ourselves in like information and facts and like use it as a mechanism to socially climb, right? And it's kind of just like like, yeah, like there is some like really cool stuff to like learn about, like history, like when people like know about like history and science and like astrophysics or whatever, it's like come on my podcast, like I want to talk to you about this. This is awesome, yeah. But like at a certain point, I think like when you're in nature, it's like there's this duality, there's this paradox, it's like I want to know all the facts, but I also just want to be right here where my feet are, yeah, and that's what I think is missing in this hustling, bustling world is like this reconnection to stillness, this reconnection to humanity, and the moment um and the beauty all around us. And I come to this spot, I write a lot of tweets in this spot, and I just one of my tweets I wrote was Miss Me with the coffee shot. I took a photo of like of uh this kind of behind me. You should look behind you. This is uh this is my view. Um and uh one of my tweets was uh Miss Me with the Coffee Shop tweets. I'll never tweet a miss when I'm deep in the weeds. I feel like that's a start to a rapper. Could be. Nas, Nas, uh, if you're listening to this, please uh give me give me the next few lines. I always like Nas's flow. He's good. Yeah, he's got a nice flow. Um, his voice is perfect too. I agree. Um But yeah, I think what you were kind of getting at is like this faith. Right? And it's like you at a certain point, like, you have to take the what we were just kind of talking about. It's like at a certain point you can align all these facts. Like, you can align the fact that like Chipotle will have the perfect ingredients for me. Yeah, or the girl that I have let's just stick with the girl that I have a crush on who works at Chipotle, yeah. She will be working at this time, and I am going to have the confidence to ask her for her number, and my car will get there, my wheels will not fall off, and I won't run out of gas because I have enough in the tank, and like all these things, like at a certain point, you just have to get in the car and drive. But you can align, and I encourage, like, this is actually oh, I should have answered this earlier. Lynn Lyndon, one of our friends at work, he asked me what my favorite movie was. Now, like, it's like one of those moments where you know the answer, but when someone puts you on the spot, you like can't think of the answer that you know. I know what my favorite movie is, and it's because it speaks on exactly what we're talking about right now, which is a very deep topic. The the the paradox of science and God.

unknown 1:03:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

And that movie is I Am Legend. If you watch that movie, if you watch that movie, I don't think anyone caught this, except the person who wrote the script, and maybe like Will Smith and the director, but like the point of that movie is to give you this paradox. Will Smith is this scientist who spends his whole life trying to get everything perfect and right, and he's like this yoke dude. He lives in the he's like got this pimped out like place that he lives in. He's like super rich, and he's like this. I think he's a doctor or something. He's like a he's like a really good scientist. And like this virus comes and it wipes out the whole population, turns them all into zombies, and his world's crumbling around him, and the zombies are coming to his home, and they're invading his home, and he his dog gets killed by one of these zombies, and he gets his dog is the only person like spirit around him that he has left. His family was taken from him by this virus and these zombies, and there's this emotional point in the movie where he sees his dog kind of turn into this zombie and lose its spirit, and you can you can see that point is the turning point emotionally for him, and he goes on a rampage and tries to kill all these zombies with his car, and you it's a suicide mission, and he basically flips his car over. And so sorry if you haven't seen the movie, I'm gonna spoil it. This is a spoiler alert. I already realized that halfway through the and and um this is my favorite movie. I'm sorry, I'm spoiling it. Uh go watch it. It's an incredible movie. Um mainly because Will Smith is my favorite actor, probably too, but probably more importantly, because of the the message I'm about to relay here. But so he's he's Will Smith flips his car, he's basically on the brink of death, and then all of a sudden, this kind of other car pulls up. There's like no one alive at this point, to his knowledge. He's alone in this massive city. This other car pulls up. It's these two humans, it's his mother and this child. And they heard on the radios like that Will was putting out, like, if anyone's alive, come to me. And they save his life. And they go back to Will's scientific layer, and he's still trying to figure out the cure and this and that to this virus, rigorously working as a scientist would and should, which is the whole point here, should think about things factually, scientifically, to their best ability, and test and test and test and test and test and test and experiment. That's what Will Smith is doing this entire movie. He's trying to figure out the cure to this virus.

unknown 1:05:59

And

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

And these these two people save him, and he um god, I get emotional when I talk about this movie. This is the best movie man. And uh they come to his house and they're talking to him, and they mention uh God at one point to him. Oh, god, God let us here, Will. And he's I don't believe in God, man. That's nonsense, he says to them. And uh, you know, he's a scientist, he's he's figured out everything there is to do on this earth, and that's a great thing, that's a beautiful thing. That's what God wants us to do. That's the whole point here. And um basically what happens is at long story short, the zombies are caving in. They find based because they uh when she found Will, uh she had she drove back to Will's lair with her lights on, and so the zombies are very in keen to light, and they they basically finally figure out where Will is staying because of the lights, and about I don't know, a few scenes later, a couple day a day passes or something, and all of a sudden the zombies are approaching Will's fortress that he's built, and he's got this underground layer, that's where his scientific lab is, and the he thinks that the the zombies are invading his home and they're they're um destroying everything, and he thinks that he's lost the two people who saved him. And then he he's sneaking around and he sees that they're still alive, and so they all sneak down to the the lair where Will's conducting these experiments to save humanity and try to figure out the cure. And uh they're in this glass area in the back, and Will realizes that he finally figured out the cure. Because one of the vials, basically the injections that he's working on, basically was turning the zombie back into a human. And um he uh they're in this kind of glass enclosed encoded area in the in the uh in the bunker. Uh there's kind of a separate lodged-off area, and um the zombies are coming into the basement, and they're basically like cornered into this glass area. And Will is down there with the the mother and the and the kid, and the mother and the kid, he remembers um as he uh but he he he thinks it's useless, right? Because the zombies are gonna eventually break the glass. They had broken a few glasses, and he's he's saying, What's what's the point? And then he remembers as he looks at I don't know if I'm getting the order of operations here right exactly on like whether he sees the cure is working first or whatever, but he's he he looks. My my remembrance is he finds the cure in that last moment, kind of in the basement, then he looks at the mother and sees there's a tattoo on her, I believe, of a butterfly or some symbolism of a butterfly and God, essentially. Basically, he's remembered, he's he remembers God through her because I think there's like a a um halo or some kind of symbol that reminds him to have faith in something that he can't see and know, and so he gives them the vial because he puts them in this chimney that's with them, and then he takes a grenade and blows himself up to kill all the zombies that are in in the bunker with him. They end up surviving in the chimney, and um, and go on to bring the cure, the vial to the remaining humans that are alive up in like a far-off place. Sorry, that was a long-winded explanation, but this is my favorite movie, and it tells us something extremely important. It tells us that we as humans need to have faith in the end, but we also need to be very rigorous while we're here. This doesn't mean that, oh, I'm a religious person, so I can just do what I want. Jesus forgives me. I'm gonna just be this, you know, lazy slob who takes and takes and is greedy. But Jesus will forgive me. It's this paradox of let's figure things out to the best of our ability, let's push ourselves to the limit, but then at the end, let's remember, at the end of that, let's remember to be positive and have faith.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

Yeah, that speaks to a lot of things that I've experienced. Um, because I remember, so I'm I'm big into philosophy and like classic philosophy and Socrates, and I took a philosophy of religion class that I found pretty interesting. And it wasn't about, you know, the different religious philosophies, it was about the different phil philosophers who tried to argue or argue for and against God's existence. And I remember being like relatively unsatisfied with all of these arguments because I just it just felt like there was no amount of reason that we could try and put forth to just to get this idea or or concept or thing that is God and and rationally fit it into our existence. And I something that I always thought was really interesting about Socrates was that if you don't know, Socrates um was a philosopher and was famously known and um recounted uh by Plato in a lot of Plato's works as somebody who would the story goes as is a philosopher goes to a mystic and asks um who's the wisest person, because they want to learn from the wisest person in at the time. And this person says it's Socrates. Socrates says, that's crazy, I can't be the wisest person, I don't know anything. And in this moment of realization, he's like, I don't know anything. And then he starts to wonder. He's like, okay. He starts to wonder about things, and he starts to to question things, and he's famously recounted as just like walking out in the middle of the street and asking people about bravery or fear or love or you know leadership. And he always he was it's classically referred to as like, you know, the Socratic method, which is I think I understand this, but I don't. So I'm gonna ask other people what their understanding is of it. And famously, Socrates was not a well-liked person because it was very frustrating for people to have their beliefs and perspective exposed by somebody who would linguistically maneuver around their understandings and find holes in their logic. And people were just like, God, this Socrates guy, he's just a menace to society. He's corrupting the use. And famously, Socrates drank hemlock and died uh for his ideals. Um wait, so he was poisoned, right? He was sentenced to uh death uh to drink his to drink poison and die.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:43

Um because he was asking questions.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:46

Because he was asking questions. And I think that what people think is like, well, pfft Socrates was a big dummy because, you know, with all of his philosophical prowess, he could have argued his way out of this sentence, and he could have defended his ideas and the value that philosophy is giving to this his time and place and revolutionizing the human collectiveness when it comes to thinking about the world and philosophizing about everything that exists and all of our preconceived notions about the world and why we do what we do and should we be doing what we're doing, and is that bad or is that good? And then he's like I'm not gonna argue about it because I don't need to defend myself when I know that I'm innocent. And so if it's the truth that I'm going to be put to death here, I'm going to be put to death here. And he was. And it was this big agenda by at the time there was there's the school of philosophy and the school of sophistry. And sophistry is basically just, in essence, the way to win arguments. Philosophy is the seeking of truth. I believe the, you know, if you look at the root words of philosophy, it basically is the pursuit of truth or the um appreciation of truth. And sophistry is just winning arguments to win arguments. So they teach you how to win arguments whether or not you're, you know, arguing a side that is universally recognized as a bad side, or objectively recognized as a bad side.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

Sophistry what's that word?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:24

Sophistry.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

Does that come from Socrates?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:27

It was just, it was like philosophy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

Sounds like Socrates. Sophistry.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:31

Yeah, kind of.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:32

But it is the It doesn't come from Socrates.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

And so I'm sure that you could apply to a larger extent who the sophists in modern society are, their whole goal in mind being to convince people that their arguments are correct and worth following, and whether or not that it is logically not true or not, their whole goal is to win the argument.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:00

More or less you can apply that to politicians, and you know, they're skilled in the art of sophistry.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:06

So these sophists were not a big fan of foot, because they were like, no, we don't want him to make people think about things and question the way things are, because that hampers our ability to win arguments.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

And so to put it to death. But what always fascinated me with Socrates was that his his his just like the the way that he was so committed to trying to figure out why things are the way they are. And I think that the kind of the more and more I listened to kind of like pre-Socratic philosophers and all of this philosophy in general, I started to kind of realize that like philosophy is great when you need to find logical reasons for doing things. And it can definitely help you affirm your beliefs and moral reasoning for things, and it can definitely guide you to logically sound arguments for the reasons why you do things. But I just I remember something that I heard from a coworker of mine a long time ago. And he said that to me, the hardest thing in life is the ability to overcome inertia. And I thought at the moment that just made like it was so inherently just like duh. Of course. Like, yeah, of course that's the freaking duh. Like, yeah, like that's fucking every something everybody should know, right? But I think it becomes once you start to apply it to a lot of things, like the ability to overcome inertia, right? And like seize the moment and make the decision and get to cashier Chipotle's number, is that's the moment of like you've asserted yourself into this life as living it. And you've you've stepped out of this realm of thinking and thinking and reasoning and reasoning and reasoning, and you've started to bridge this gap of like all this thinking and reasoning, and now I can act on it. So I think that philosophy is great for like finding good reasons to do things. But overcoming the inertia of you know, sitting in your armchair philosophizing about why I should go get groceries today and then actually doing it is that moment of overcoming inertia.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:55

Yeah, it's the paradox.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Yeah, and so I thought that was just I thought it was such like a beautifully simple way to like kind of summarize just doing shit. Just fucking living life, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Ah, that's that is beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:10

And I was like, I mean, you know, this guy was he was a dishwasher at my old job. Yeah. He was 85 years old.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:17

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:18

Yeah. Holy moly. Like it was just one of the strangest life circumstances I'd ever come across because I've never experienced a dishwasher that was over the age of 20.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:29

That's a really physical job. To be 85 doing that?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:33

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:34

I know. But yeah, that's just what he did.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:40

That was And that's that was his advice to you. That was his advice to me. And you said duh. And probably part of the reason you said duh was because of like, well, you're an 85-year-old dishwasher. Whom why why should I listen to you?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:53

Well, I like to give everybody like an honest chance about their you know, beliefs and reasoning because I think it's just so I think it's so beautiful to recognize and understand and empathize with somebody about like their beliefs. Yeah. Like I think that that I think that brings people to this recognize this point of recog recognition that like it's just another human being in front of me.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:20

It's so beautiful that I get the opportunity to talk about these concepts where they're just another human being and they're willing to talk about these things with me. So I think it's just like to me, I think those are just like moments of beauty. I get the opportunity to see into the deep recesses of somebody's mind with such a simple philosophy. Yeah. And then like recognizing that as like, yeah, this is just another person who's been trying to figure it all out.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:47

And they've got this cool ass idea about things.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

So I love the I love the inertia metaphor. Because it's like I I recognize it's like getting out of bed every day.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:58

It's like, damn, bed's so comfortable.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:01

And I could I could I would appreciate five more minutes of sleep. Yeah. That'd be great. I'd love to sleep in today.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:07

Yeah. But like And sometimes you need it. That's right, yeah, of course. Sometimes you need it. That's why the philosophizing is good.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

Because some if you if you just don't if you never think about like things, then you're like, well, I don't need sleep. Hold on, bro. Did you did you think about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:24

Yeah. Did you really think about that?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:27

But then it's like, well, I got eight hours.

unknown 1:22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:32

What's the harm in nine?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:33

Well, yeah, that's that's where I get a lot of.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:36

It's like you could Yeah, I know, and I'm I'm so used to it. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that. And I think that, you know, in this society where like we have a growing concern with mental health, like probably a lot of people can relate to the idea of just like not wanting to get the fuck out of bed.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:53

And I think in my personal experience, like I've had that experience where like days are just unappealing, and I don't want to get out of bed. But it's like I've failed to overcome inertia that moment, in that moment. And I've reasoned all of these ways to stay still and stop moving.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:18

And no, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:21

I'm I'm I'm because I am like It's a cool guy. It's it's I am so much of the uh and my friends who know me growing up, if they're they're listening to this, they'll be like, well, David, you are the biggest philosophizing, like I've I've I'll just sit in the chair all day for the rest of my life, and like taking action has always been my uh I guess you could say weakness. I just I degree I I I overthink things to an extreme degree, and I think for me it's always been like perfectionism, and it's like sorry guys, I got the sinus thing if you hear me sniffling. And this this guy here that we're talking to gave this to me, probably no, but anyways, we both had it. I do need to blow my nose, but whatever. We don't have any, we're gonna rock. Um so yeah. Um so uh the uh the point that I'm making here is I think that and this this will be a nice segue into fear. I want to talk about fear, it's been on my mind a lot because I have these fears, right? That so, like basically this podcast, like I have these things I want to say, and I believe that the things I want to say will somehow escape me. Like, I have such a love and like I love myself. I think I think that's something we need to be more confident, uh, more I think that needs to be like a thing that we talk about more because like there narcissism is like the one of the things that we demonize so much in our culture, and in like loving yourself is not narcissistic. Those are two completely different things, folks. So we need to really like, and I think like people who don't love themselves are so quick to throw like the narcissism judgment out. It's like, oh, they're just a like I I've heard this so many times, it's like, oh, they're just like a what's the word that it's like serial narcissist, or like there's some word they throw in front of narcissism, which to make it even sound like even more clinically insane, but like Yeah, like co like covert narcissism gets thrown around. Or just or just like whatever it is, some other adjective in front of narcissism to just make it sound like even more like deranged or evil. But like, so there's there's this self-love that I have for myself that is not narcissistic. It's just like dang, that's a cool idea, David. Or dang, like, you did really well there. Or like, dang, like, why don't I just love myself because I'm alive? Like, I don't need a reason, you don't need a reason to love yourself. It's one of my fundamental beliefs. Like, you don't need to like have this cool thing, like you need to love yourself like before you get out of bed, before you do anything, before you have a struggle with inertia, before you're five years old and can think about things. You need to love yourself now, right this second. Critically important, before you do anything, before you pick up a pencil and do anything. You need to love yourself. So I here I am justifying reasons I love myself. I'm going somewhere with this. So I love myself, right? And it's a commitment that I've made. And I have all these ideas, right? And my fear comes from the fact that like one day, like if I do like if I like do some action that causes me brain damage, all of a sudden I won't have these beautiful ideas. All of a sudden they'll escape me. It's like I'm trying to like catch up to them. It's like I'm trying to chase after something. But there's this amazing quote: it's like, ideas don't come from you, they come through you. And so I think that has helped me a lot. And what you just said has helped me a lot. Just inertia of like doing things, for example, like I have like such perfectionism and like such like protection of my ideas that like sometimes I I think like this is so irrational, and I recognize this is irrational, but like sometimes I think that like if I like do certain things, like I don't know what. An example. I've gotten a lot better with a lot of things, but like sometimes I think if I like turn my phone on from like from airplane mode, which I put it on every night, in the morning, if I put it on, turn it on, right? Like get it active off of airplane mode. If I do that in a certain way, or if I'm near certain things, like it'll cause me brain damage. So like I'm very like OCD about where I turn on my phone and how I do it. Like I don't like to do it in my bed. I like to do it like standing in this certain spot. So that's like fear, right? That's like, or like sometimes I'll like like like right now, like I have all these videos that we've recorded, but like I'm looking for like the perfect like Wi-Fi attachment, like Wi-Fi place to like upload the videos. Like, oh, I didn't want to do the like I got like I had like a panic attack at the library the other day. I was about to upload a video, and I was like, oh my god, there's so many books here. That's so many words. There's a trillion words. If I upload this video on this Wi-Fi, I'll get brain damage and all my ideas will go away, right? So, like, that fear is so. I want to give myself credit, I want to give myself grace. It's so niche and unique, that's what I'll say. And we all have these interesting, uniche, unique fears that we can't relate to. Like, your like, I doubt any single person listening to this podcast can relate to what I just said. They're probably like, dude, I've never thought about that. But I guarantee you that your fears, I've never I've rarely considered those. Like, most people are afraid of like what other people think of them. Like, I used to be. I have completely gotten rid of that, relinquished that fear. I don't care what people think about me. Most people are afraid of public speaking. I'm not afraid of public speaking, I like public speaking. So, fear is an interesting thing, and I want to get your take on it. Like, it's it's very um unique and niche, and I wonder what's happening. Like, what do you think's happening when I have those fears? And like what and maybe if you're comfortable sharing some of your own fears, like what do you think fear because like people are afraid of so many things, and I think that those fears dictate uh like the way our lives go, and like maybe the maybe the philosophy is like how do we because like some fears we need, right? Don't we do we or or maybe we don't need some fears? Like jumping off a cliff. Do we need that fear? Or is that just inherently known? So it's a very deep, deep question. Sorry to it was a lot there, sorry to uh Oh man, yeah, fear is an interesting concept.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:13

Because I mean uh there's this book I'm reading about uh Buddhism, and it it talks about how like there's a very human aspect of us, and that human aspect of us is kind of now this kind of gets into evolutionary theory, and so if you believe or don't believe in evolutionary theory, just entertain the thought for a moment that we as human beings evolved and proliferated our genes that would guarantee us some level of success when it comes to proliferating our genes. So whether it is more advantageous as future generations to fear jumping off of a cliff than not fear jumping off of a cliff was biologically advantageous for future generations, eventually got us to a point where the fear of jumping off cliffs became commonplace. And so the book kind of speaks a lot about how um our biological function will get in the way often of um spiritual actualization. Like um how we and again this is kind of straying from the topic of fear and more into the uh subject of beauty, but like I think such and such is an attractive woman, and it is in my biological nature to find this specific subcategory or these facial features and physical features attractive because I'm convinced that this will benefit the future generation, that my and this, you know, partner of mine's genes combined will give our future generation ad advantages. But these also come into play when it comes to fear. And so, like, fear is a very kind of primal thing. It's it's something that shakes us to our core because we fear that our livelihood in some aspect is at threat or under threat. Like, for example, my fear of you know being like a like a being unimportant to others comes from some biological component in me that feels that I need to add value to others around me. And from a logical standpoint, it doesn't really make any sense. Like why I'm so concerned with adding value to others around me doesn't necessarily make any sense to anybody. Uh but to me, it does. And there is this fear that I need to add value, or otherwise I'm not important, or I'm not of value.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:40

Well, there is an evolutionary aspect to that too, it's like community, like we evolved to be of value to our tribe.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:50

Right, exactly. So there's value in being of sport or providing something to others that biologically is advantageous.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:00

I look at you and you're the chef, or whatever. I look at you and you're the swordsman.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:04

Yeah, or you're the hunter, or you're the leader. And that's important. And that's important because you are da-da-da-da-da.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:11

We all want to be important. There's no shame in that, in my opinion. Of course we all want to be important.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:15

Who doesn't? Um, but fear is just I think fear is a beautiful tool for like growth. Because I believe it was kind of within Immanuel Kant's philosophy where um he talks about how personal trials and suffering is possibly one of the greatest things to ever exist. Because it gives us great ability to evolve and change and mutate into the highest version of ourselves. And so we can't, I believe one of his quotes would be like, To anyone that I love and care about, I wish great suffering and trials upon you.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:12

Because he wants this evolution from people to a point at which they become this greatest version of themselves, rather than staying stagnant and comfortable in their own shoes or positions in life.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:27

I think there's so much truth in that.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:28

Yeah. So but it's it it it's it's so easy for me to talk about like how fears, you know, can be this great thing of growth, and you can become this great person through fear. But how do you get over the fear? Exactly. Right? It's it's goddamn, go my god, fuck it. Everyone's fear is so I'm paralyzed by the idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:51

Like you said, it's primal. It's this this thing where we feel like our lives are like like I have these fears because I feel like if I if they come true, like I won't have a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:05

And that's like everything to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:08

And I think this is kind of where this unit this this existentialist absurdist philosophy kind of placates my fears, is because it's like we're just two guys sitting on a rock spinning in the middle of space. Nothing fucking matters. We will die and rot and turn into dust and be fertilizer for some grass in a graveyard somewhere. Like That's one perspective. Right. It's it's one perspective for sure. I don't agree with that, but but you know, it's it's this it's this reality that death is imminent.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:53

Well, death of the physical body. Death of the physical body is imminent. We will lose all capacity to impact this earth at some point through the death of our physical body.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:04

But it can help, and it's I think it certainly helped me kind of escape this, you know, this mindset of like, oh my god, I'm so fucking scared to do this, or I'm so fucking scared to do this. But I think on the other side of fear is happiness.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:21

Like just it's just it's just past that scary fucking trail.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:27

Right? You know, this beautiful looking trail presented in front of me, or this scary ass fucking trail on the other side. That scares me. This one doesn't. But holy shit, there's this beautiful grotto on the other side, just past this scary fucking place.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:44

Things that are scary often have great views. The cliff has a great view.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:48

Or like how often like I I'm willing to bet anything and everything that I could possibly own in this earth, that everybody has had an experience where they're petrified by fear. And in a moment, they made the decision to confront the fear. And and and they confronted it and they conquered it. And afterwards, they had a profound relief and happiness filled their entire being.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:18

Right, right. Like because that's growth. That's that is happiness, that is fulfillment. This is another thing I I wanted to talk to you about. It's like, I don't think you can find hap-like, I think we have this preconceived conception of happiness as a society where it's like, I'm just gonna take the pill, the antidepressants, I'm gonna sit on my couch and watch Netflix, yeah, and like I'm gonna like pretty much rot away until I die.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:47

Like it's it's thought of as a commodity.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:49

Like, that's happiness. But that's not happiness, bro. That's not gonna lead you to happiness.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:55

Like, I don't believe that's happiness.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:56

No, happiness is gonna bring you happiness is taking the the the the path that you were just describing.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:04

It's scary. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:06

Yeah. That's fulfilling, because it's also fulfilling. It's happiness and fulfillment. It's like this cocktail of both. It's kind of thrilling too. Yeah, it's a cocktail of adventure. It's fing, it's the essence of life. It's the essence of life, yes, correct. It's what we need more of in society, and not only physically, because what we're talking about is like the you're like the physical, but like I feel like this is also like a mental and spiritual thing. Like, that's why I love like looking at mental, physical, and spiritual, because they're they are completely separate things. It's like you're talking about taking the path, right? So, like, okay, doing that, going to Chipotle, getting your number.

unknown 1:40:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:50

But like, how about like the mental space to like be open to that in the first place? That's the first step. But then there's also that spiritual step where it's like, I want to love another human being.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:05

Like, I want to romantically, like, maybe have a family.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:10

And like there's a biological component to that too.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:13

Right. Well, that's the physical. So there's these separate things, and it's like, well, we can't just like get the iPhone 25. Like, it's it's not all about like the tech like the physical. It's about like how do we grow, and that's why it's like it goes back to earlier what you were saying about philosophizing and philosophizing from the chair. It's like, well, there's merit in that.

unknown 1:41:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

And so, like, we shouldn't be so ashamed in our philosophizing from the chair. And like, don't like, I shouldn't feel so ashamed that I haven't taken so much action because I've made a lot of progress spiritually and mentally. Now, for me, I'm at the phase now in my 30s, where it's like, by the time I'm 40, I want to be like, okay, I took a bunch of action, and now I'm like reaping reaping some rewards. In eight years, I want to be like, okay. That was because of the action that I took, but like the growth spiritually, like in my 20s was like a ton of spiritual growth. So I think that like getting on the other side of the fear of our mental blocks, of our physical blocks, of our spiritual blocks. That's what I look at when I when when you're talking. That's what resonated with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:32

I just think it's that I mean that's kind of like um that's that's more or less like Emmanuel Kant's kind of um philosophy kind of summarized.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:45

It's like or maybe maybe I'm not getting it. Maybe it's not Kant, maybe it's Nietzsche.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:52

I believe it's Nietzsche, because like everybody thinks of like Nietzsche as just like God is dead and we killed him. Kind of guy where like everything's terrible and g and like you should be ashamed to be a human being. But like some of the greater works of like Nietzsche was like how he was like fucking like do something fucking scary.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:12

Yeah, like like get out of fucking bed. Yeah, like yeah, it's gonna suck. Yeah, you're tired, it's gonna suck.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:21

Go to the gym. Your muscles are gonna hurt. Yeah, it's gonna be terrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:25

But like there's something, there's something there. We can't even put words on it, but it's like there's something there. It's like, dude, yesterday before we bunch of us met last night, we played Super Smash Brothers. That's always just so much fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:43

Um, but before that, I kind of had my day open, did some errands, and then I just went on a six-mile run. I hadn't been running in a while. I'm kind of out of shape if I'm being honest, from where I normally am physically, and I know that I'm about to kind of enter a a gym ra uh gym uh arc again, because it's just awesome how I feel right now. Like I'm so and then I after my run, I went into uh the gym and I just lifted for like an hour, and yeah, just like my brain like after that was like completely like yeah, I was tired, I was exhausted, but like man, I had no intrusive thoughts. I had happiness and joy that I had like just done that, accomplished that. I had gotten over the inertia, but there was fear in there too, and that's why I keep coming back to it. It's like I had this, I have all these fears of like if I do this, then I won't be able to do my podcast, my podcast, my podcast, my thing. Like, like I had this, like, I had this irrational fear of going into my gym in my apartment complex. Because in my apartment complex, there are these we have boilers, right? Most people have boilers. And on our boiler in our apartment, each of our each we each have a boiler in our units in my apartment complex. On the boiler, there is a blinking light. If you know anything about me, probably all know my mom, who if she's listening to this, I hate things that are blinking. It's another kind of fear of mine.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:40

It's like something about like a blinking light.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:42

It's like, just have the light be either off or just just just have it be on like all the time. I don't know why it's blinking. It's using up too much battery, and it's causing like, dude, I feel like if I were surrounded by like a million blinking lights, I'd go crazy. Like that'd be your hell. Yeah. Like blinking, like there's something about blinking lights where I feel like I'm just like, blink, blink. It's like that that's causing me brain damage. That's causing no, it's just like it's I feel like, yeah, maybe that for some people, it's like, but like I feel like that's causing me brain damage. And so, like, the first month when I was living in my apartment, I was like, you can't turn this off? Oh my god, like I'm gonna lose my mind. Right. And I think a lot that's where a lot of my fear comes from. It's like, I need to have clarity of thought, I need to have my mind. And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier with the what is the tree, what is the fallacy. Yeah, but so, anyways, there's all these blinking lights, and in the middle of our entire complex is our gym. Yeah, and so for six to seven months I was avoiding our gym because I thought that, like, oh, if I'm in the middle of all these blinking lights, I'm cooked.

unknown 1:46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:00

Might as well. It's over for me. My brain's gonna be dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:05

Fried, boiled, microwave.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:08

Because I also believe that, like, you here's something that I and here's why why fear is so fascinating to me, because here's something that I think is actually true. I think that if I were to go under brain damage, let's say I were to someone were to s club me in the head with a mace. Okay, so pretty, pretty like obviously like just incurred brain damage. Right. And then if I were to work out after that, I think that that would make the brain damage significantly worse. Or or worse, just just worse in general. Like, I think if I were to just like lift like heavy weights after I just got like fucking clubbed. Right. Excuse my French. I'm really trying not to swear. I don't care if my guests swear as much, but I'm personally trying not to swear. But there's a slip-up. I had a whole life of swearing, but I've kind of sworn it off trying to. Anyway, so that was the first slip-up. Um, and I just think that like that is legitimate. Like, I think you could study if you like examine people's brains, you did like a bunch of control groups. I think you could study like brain damage, like it increasing if like there was significant brain damage and then like significant physical activity, yeah, specifically heavy weights. Right. So, with those beliefs in my head, of course I'm gonna have this fear of okay, so the blinking lights cause me brain damage, and I'm lifting heavy weights in the middle of all the blinking lights, of course I'm gonna have this fear of that then.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:54

So it's like you can see, like, okay, all the beliefs are on the table here. Let's look at them all, and let's now we can see why action, why there, why there is inertia.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:08

Right? Or if you think about it in like a metaphorical standpoint, right, from an observer perspective, right? It's like there's this hilarious episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia where one of the characters, um, Charlie.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:22

People people say I remind them of Charlie.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:25

Charlie is is is convinced that he's figured out this this criminal cold case. And and and the other people come into his apartment, and he's he's got like three or four cigarettes in his mouth. And he's he's got all this red tape in in the like the all these all these this poster board and all of these um these things taped up and red thread in between all of them. And he's just like chain smoking cigarettes. Like I think that that is kind of a good analogy to like the mental gymnastics we do when we like convince ourselves that these things are are like like our fears, right? Like even even when you were talking about it, right? Like I could see like you you put it you were putting this picture up and then you were tying the red thread to it, and it was like you had this m imaginary poster board in front of you with all of these reasonings as to why the blinking light is gonna fing kill me.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:32

And like if you look at it from an observer's perspective, like if you can take a step back in your own mind and see the poster board with all the red thread and and and articles sniffed out and and things and three cigarettes in my mouth. And three cigarettes in your mouth, and you can just take a moment to observe yourself, you know, doing all this mental lifting to try and find a reason not to go to the gym and work out.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:58

Or just do the thing, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:00

It seems pretty silly. Yeah. Like, yeah. Hopefully, hopefully you're just able to recognize that it's just it might even just be like a little silly to look at from an observer perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:10

And like, even that can even be said to me as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:13

But there's but therein is my whole question with fear, and I I this is such a fascinating topic to me that I want to talk about it with a lot of people. But like, where is the line? Is there a line?

SPEAKER_05 1:51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:26

Where is the line between okay, I can't, I shouldn't jump off the cliff? Like, where is the line that like where when do we know our fears are valid? Are they ever valid? When do we know our fears are valid? Because this is, I think if we can learn how to think properly through fear, and I don't know the answer. I don't have the answer to this, this is why I'm asking. I think it's an I think it's one of the world's great questions.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:55

I think I think we might have articulated it, but we just didn't realize it. Is like embracing the fear for what it is and coming out on the other side of us leads us to whether or not it's logical or not. Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:12

Like take the cliff example. The cliff example. It's simple.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:18

It's simple, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:20

So you're saying jump off this clip.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:21

If I'm sitting on top of a cliff and I'm thinking, and I'm fearing for my life, that if I jump off this cliff, I'm gonna die. But then I take action and I jump. And instead, I fall into this. Let's just say, you know, I land and out of some crazy coincidence, there's this giant net that catches me. And I realize had that net not been there, I'd be dead. That would make me realize that my fear of cliffs is valid. Yeah. Like without this safety net, I'd be dead.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:20

And so you begin to recognize, like, okay, right, if I jump off a cliff and these conditions are not met, my fear is valid. Like this, you know, there's no net, there's no cushion at the bottom, there's no body of water for me to jump into. The water isn't deep enough, yada yada yada yada. Then my fear of cliffs is valid. Yeah. But I think yeah. Even even like, you know, for myself, like, you know, maybe my fear of um Oh god, now I'm blanking, I'm trying to pull on my own. Um but like being vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:59

Yeah, maybe that's a fear of being vulnerable.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:02

Maybe maybe if I just say fuck it.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:04

And I and I be vulnerable. Yeah. And that moment of vulnerability comes back to harm me. And I realize in that moment those specific set of conditions when I decided to be vulnerable came to hurt me.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:21

So maybe, so maybe this is this is kind of where I got in my philosophizing about fear is like it's the task of life. It's the burden of life.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:38

Like, fear is the thing we have to work through. Fear is like the uh slope on the on the snowboarding or skis. It's like the mogul. It's like you just gotta learn how to groove through it. And like the mogul's always gonna be there.

unknown 1:54:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:56

And you don't wanna ski down a hill without moguls. Moguls, like, I think we're so obsessed as a culture and a society, is like, well, dang, I'm sad, or dang, I'm anxious. Grab a pill, grab a pill. There's something wrong with me. Where's the label? I need a label, and this is the video I wanted to film. We're gonna film a little content later today, but this is exactly what I wanted to talk about. Is like, I think we're obsessed, I think it's one of the biggest lies that we're told is that there's these labels. In my opinion, everyone is a spiritual being going through a spiritual experience. There's no label there. There's no autism, there's no ADHD, there's no depression, there's no anxiety. You're just going through the moguls, the fear, the troubles, and for you to come up with these labels, and maybe you've got three or four labels. Oh man, you've got this wrong with you, and that wrong with you, and this wrong with you, and oh my god, you might as well just you might as well kill yourself, or if you don't kill yourself, why don't you just take these five pills? Because that'll that'll work too. So please never kill yourself. That was uh a bad that would that would that was that was the example that I was making. So the point is I think we're obsessed with quick fixes, I think we're obsessed with labeling ourselves, and I think we're obsessed with figuring out what's wrong with us instead of looking out, looking with what's right with us. And in my opinion, and my strong conviction, there's nothing wrong with anyone, there's just spiritual damage, and to what extent is there spiritual damage, and to what extent is there physical, maybe there's physical damage, um, and both of these things impact the mental frameworks that we operate in and the mental systems that we operate in, and that contributes to maybe you're just you know you you're struggling focusing in school, which we label as ADHD, because your parents beat the crap out of you, smacked you in the head 55 times as a child, and you got fed Oreos and Ho-O's. Like that was your diet, and you had lead in your water. Well, good good luck focusing in school if those are your circumstances. So I think that I I feel this way strongly that I think we really we really need to realize the importance in being positive. Like I said, if I move this twig five feet to the right, it's gonna be five feet to the right for everyone. If I am positive the entire day to everyone I interact with, that's one day where I'm being positively influential on everything around me. And if we all did that for an entire day, the entire world would change immensely. But we are so obsessed with the narrative of oh, it'd be too good to be true, I've got depression, I've got, and I'm not like, and and and and this is coming from a place of immense love for the listener and for you, and I just know that these labels are quick fixes, quick ways to get out of things. And I don't want to go on a huge tangent now about it, even though I kind of just did, but I just it's hard for me to, it's really hard for me to see this fallacy being played out because I know it's not the answer, I know it's not the solution, and I know that there is some truth to the fact that you are sad, and there's some truth to the fact that you are anxious, and for me, there's obviously a lot of fear and anxiety that I have. Yeah, but do I want to medicate myself? Which I already have tried doing. And I've had family members and friends who have medicated themselves extensively, and they never quite figured out how to go down the mountain and go through the moguls.

unknown 1:59:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:48

Because they thought that the moguls were a problem, and they thought they had bad skis, and they thought they were a bad skier.

unknown 1:59:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:55

And so they came up with all these reasons for why they and the mountain and everything else was wrong. And I and what does that lead to? That leads to a life where you don't figure things out. You think that ho-os and Oreos are fine. Family feud, eh.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:18

Not on the board. Incorrect. Zero points.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:23

If you don't get to the root answer of things, if you don't sit in that philosophizing chair, if you don't figure out what fear is valid and what fear isn't, and maybe, maybe the answer is none of them are valid. But we don't know until we go through with things and figure things out. But I'm saying if you because like I I remember I went on a date with this girl, and I remember she was she said she said quite a few things that stuck with me, but one of the things she said, smart girl, she said, I just want to stop thinking. Like, no. That's the last thing we need and want, because that's not what you want at all. I don't think that anyone wants to get to a place where they stop thinking. Because what happens when you stop thinking? Well, then you can't figure things out. You don't know how to do anything, you're useless. You don't even know how to start a grill, you don't even know how to cook pasta, you don't even know how to be a good parent, you don't even know how to treat yourself right. You don't even know what foods make you feel good and what foods don't. You don't know anything. Thinking is not the enemy. And I don't even think fear is the enemy. I think it's just the course.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:42

Well, I like that. Um yeah, that reminds me of um It's this it's this concept which uh called philosophical suicide. It's just kind of like you said, it's just not thinking about it or thinking about things too much. Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:16

It's just committed yourself to a life of indifference. I think that's kinda nihilism, maybe?

SPEAKER_03 2:02:33

I don't know if nihilism is the word that I was looking for, but it's just you know you just kinda don't really want to live all that bad. Or maybe it's just so burdensome to think about things that you can't come to a decision, so you never do. So you just get stuck in these two different places of not thinking about it at all or thinking about it too much. You just become immobile.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:06

I think there's real evil forces in this spiritual battle, and evil to me is not anything but spiritual damage. So you're in you become evil, you do evil acts because you take spiritual damage. So that could be trauma, that could be a lot of bullying for a lot of people. Yeah, that could be a lot of feeling powerless, so once they get into positions of power, they abuse it. It's a lot of just like things that happened when you were younger that you're not like properly mentally and spiritually investigating and healing from.

unknown 2:03:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:49

And physically healing. How do you physically well, how do you physically heal, David? Well, I don't know. Sit in a sauna, eat some mangoes or uh kiwis or watermelons and drink celery juice and um eat some simple whole food diet, organic, and figure out what's good for you. You think, you think, you think about things, you you you you figure out what's good for you. You wanna you wanna be able to think, you want to be able to think. And so when I think about what could be an evil diabolical thing to do would be to convince an entire world that there's something wrong with them. Because if there's something wrong with them, they need something to fix them. And often we go to pills, we go to porn, we go to just killing other people, we go to whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:06

Could be a convenient ideological belief.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:09

Right. We we go to these convenient um things that are uh designed to supposed to be fixalls. Or it's the answer. The answer to what's wrong with you.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:35

And like let me just be so bluntly clear like Adderall is not the solution to your focus problems. Like, let's just can we just like get past this? Like, have you ever taken Adderall? Like, it makes you feel like awful. Like, it makes you feel like, and all we need to really do is like ask ourselves and our higher spirits, or just ourselves, your spirit, like, how do I feel right now? Like, versus like not taking it, right? Like, to so to run an experiment, like we all we and like what do I want? Do I want to be reliant on something? Who am I? Why am I here? So, like, we need to activate these thinking mechanisms, we can't shut them off. And we have to follow the trail, we have to go down the course, go through the moguls, we have to fit navigate through the fear, we have to figure things out for ourselves. That's how we build a great world. Every single individual taking on the challenge of the great challenge that God has given us to be Will Smith and figure it out. Yeah, and then at the end have faith that it's gonna work out. Yeah, that's what like Will Smith is trying to figure out the answer, that's what makes his character so great. And his his final realization at the moments before he dies that to have faith was the missing ingredient to his whole life, and that's all he needed to do, and everything else would have clicked, and it did click at the end for him, and so I really passionately believe that um we really need to get to a place as a society where everyone is figuring things out and not stopping the thinking train, and that in and of itself can solve all of our problems because then we have people who know how to do things, we have people who know how to calm themselves down, we have people who are taking self-accountability instead of oh well, there's something wrong with me. Well, if there's something wrong with you, the like think about it. Like, if there's something wrong with me, I'm gonna be like, all right, well, there's something wrong with me. I'm just gonna like do the thing again, like I'm just gonna like eat the ho-os because, like, you know, oh, I've got this eating disorder where like I like this always happens to me, and I've got this label, and this this label, I'm that's the whole point. Labels are self-fulfilling prophecies. If you've got the label and you're attached to it, you're going to be attached to it, and your actions will correspond. And um, there's a lot going on in this conversation because there's there are people who are like addicted to like things like alcohol, and like that's kind of like a different kind of conversation, but just for the sake of like ADHD, depression, and things like that, it's like that's just part of the course. So I know I was kind of repetitive there and kind of went on a tangent, but something I'm really passionate about.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:09

I think it's good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:11

I think, you know, I think it's kind of funny because um, you know, like here we are thinking about all the ways to figure it out. And right, the goal of this is to try and get to a closer conclusion and find the truth. And I think something that always, like something personally that I really always liked, um, was that no matter what the Buddha taught, no matter what he said, he always pushed his believers to disagree with him. And he always pushed his followers to don't believe what he says. Because he didn't want people to just be comfortable and accept what he said to be the truth without actually experiencing it. And so he was famously known for just always wanting people to conduct their own lives however they wanted to. And he would speak these spiritual truths just because he had experienced them. And he thought that if people experience these things, they'd come to this realization that this is how we're supposed to live. But he wanted people to be like run their own experiments. He's like, I would hope that everyone that follows me doesn't believe a word that I say. And I hope that people try and disprove me. And I think that that's I think that's invigorating.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:16

Yeah. And I think that that's where Imagine if our politicians said that. Right?

SPEAKER_03 2:11:22

Like, I don't want you. I don't I don't want people to believe what I say. And I don't want people to agree with me.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:31

Imagine like Marco Rubio or like Joe Biden.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:34

The conversation becomes less interesting. But like, it's nice to meet people that you agree with. And it's nice to like find out, but like it's also really interesting to find people you don't agree with. It's much more interesting. It's almost much more energizing to find people you don't agree with. And then and then to then, you know, be like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna adopt this guy's personality. I'm gonna adopt this person's philosophy for a day. I'm gonna see what it's like, I'm gonna see if they've got it figured out. Or not. And then run the experiment. You run the experiment. Like the Buddha did. You sit under the tree for 48 days. You don't eat. You drink water out of a creek. And then by the end of the 48th day, you don't become enlightened. You're like, I knew it. I knew he was wrong.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:26

And so then you can and and but but even that experience, right? Is you did your own experiment. Yeah. And you and you came to a conclusion. Buddha was wrong.

unknown 2:12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:38

Or David Applebaum's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:40

Or Brooke Stansbury's a fucking idiot.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:42

But so why do people why do you think people get so quickly like why do why don't people want to do the experiment? Why do they just want to like again? I I I think my answer to it is they just want to not think. Everyone's like attached to this, like, I don't want to think. Thinking is painful. Thinking is how I overthink. Thinking is where all my fears are. Thinking where is all my insecurities are. We have a society that's obsessed with shutting off thinking. Right. And so, like, when they see something that they disagree with, instead of doing the Buddha experiment that he encourages people to do, to do it for themselves, they're just, oh, that's different. Shut it off. Shut it away.

unknown 2:13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:26

And then, oh, it's different. Label it. Label it. I need a label.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:31

Anyone have me, printing paper? I need to go to the UPS store. I need a new label. Where's my label maker? I need a label.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:42

And that that's why what you were saying earlier, I don't know if our listeners caught it, but I think it was really beautiful. I'm sure they did because our listeners are amazing. When you were talking about the tree, you were like, make no assumptions of the tree. Yeah. Like, I don't even how do we even know how to describe what a tree is? It's like.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:02

What makes a tree a tree?

SPEAKER_01 2:14:04

And then you well, you think about it for a little while. The tree has roots, it's got roots, it gives oxygen, it's got leaves, it evolves in the seasons.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:13

But then the next line of thought is well, that bush right there, wouldn't that be a tree too?

unknown 2:14:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:19

Because it does exactly what the tree does. Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:21

It provides oxygen, it has roots. So what makes that a tree? Yeah. The treiness. Yeah. What is the essence of the tree? And that's kind of some of my favorite philosophical lines of questioning. It's like, how do we get at the essence of things? And and and Plato uh Plato believes that there's this different metaphysical plane of existence where things were true in of their essence. So there's this different material, there's this metaphysical world that exists. It's called the world of things. And in this world of things, there's a tree. And it's and it's it makes, it's it's essentially what trees are. It's the essence of a tree. And and then real life, trees imitate this world of things. Life imitates the world of things. So the trees that are around us now are just imitating the true essence of that tree in the world of things. And so it's it's it's always a fun line of questioning because, you know, and another there there's there's this hilarious um recorded debate among philosophers when uh I believe Heraclitus was alive or Diogenes. I think it's Diogenes. Diogenes famously lived on the streets of Greece or Athens, I don't know where it was, in a pot, in a bathtub, essentially. And it was it was hilarious because Alexander the Great thought Diogenes was the coolest guy alive.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:59

Yeah. And he says, Man, if I wasn't Alexander the Great, I'd want to be Diogenes.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:05

He says back to Alexander the Great, if I wasn't Diogenes, I'd want to be Diogenes too. And then Alexander the Great is standing in Diogenes' way and he asks Alexander the Great, this man, this conqueror, this emperor, to get out of the way of the sun. But also, he has this other famous account where they're trying to figure out what the essence of a human is. And so they say, Well, you know, a human is a featherless bipedal being. Diogenes kicks the door down with his with a chicken without feathers on.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:47

I present to you a human being.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:51

And it's just, it's it's I think it's so much fun to kind of think about the essence of things uh and what makes things the way that they are, but there's also just so much beauty in just discarding that line of thinking.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:08

Yeah. Well, well, I think like some people think that like, okay, if I start thinking and I'm like, if I just like examine myself and like put up the mirror, like, how do I feel when Charlie Kirk gets shot? Or like, how do I feel about the fact that I'm significantly overweight? Or like, how do I feel about the fact that like my relationships seem to be always sputtering out, and I've been divorced a few times, or like it just is it it ignites a lot of fear in people, and yeah, they they want to shut it off, right? And I think what you eloquently do and embody is like your love, like in what you were just demonstrating, is like there's so much like beauty in thinking of it thinking, yeah. Like, how do you f how do we find like the beauty in thinking again? How do we bring back thinking so like because like I think a lot of people can really see that one of the greatest issues we have is critical thinking, but it's like what's the root cause of that? It's the fact that we have this society that wants to label everything and shut off the thinking as quickly as possible, and grab the blunt and put on the put on the the music, and like there's nothing wrong with that. It's like, and I think that that that's the point I'm trying to make right now. It's like you gotta get to a place where like you fall in love with thinking again, yeah, and you like know that like you can turn it off without like a medication or like an a severe addiction to something, right? Like you can turn it off without something that you need to do every day. You can meditate, you can work out for two hours. Remember how I was saying earlier, when I worked out for two hours, two and a half hours, afterwards I was like not even thinking about anything. Like I remember I was like I did like something really stupid. I like I think I was just like I don't know, like whatever, like walked to the bathroom with my shoes on, or something like something like that. Because I like something stupid. I did I it wasn't that, but like I did something where I just literally wasn't thinking. Well, why did that happen? Because my brain was so clear and blissful because of the physical exertion that I just put it through. So there's ways that we can engage in things that do cause very minimal harm, if not benefit us, that stop us from overthinking, which is a problem that we can pretty much for sure say is a problem. So, and that's what causes people to go to the doctor and say, Well, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, give me a pill. Well, they've gotten to a point where they're overthinking and it just doesn't stop. And I know many people, including myself, where it gets to that point, but like, how do we like come to like okay, and like like in my opinion, one of like the healthiest, unhealthiest, right, healthiest, unhealthy ways to slow down thinking is through cannabis use. Like, I think that if we had a society that like a certain amount of people who just had issues with like overthinking or anxiety or depression, like used cannabis like occasionally, like a couple times a week or maybe a few times a month, like that would be so much better than to have a society where 60% of us are on antidepressants. And the reason I'm so against antidepressants is because I've taken them myself, I know how they operate and what they do to the brain, and I've seen many family members take them, and what they basically do is they make you happy through artificial serotonin doing nothing. So, like I was I was like completely content not doing any of my homework. I started taking them in college. I'm gonna tell the story one day on the podcast, but I was completely content. I would basically failed out of school almost. I got like D's and Fs.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:48

I was just rushing a fraternity. All I needed to do was get in the fraternity. I was the worst ranked pledge.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:53

All I need all I cared about was just you just give me in the fraternity.

unknown 2:21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:57

I was on a pretty high dose too, which maybe was a factor, but yeah. Just give me in the fraternity. I wanna kiss girls, I wanna drink, I wanna have a fun time, and I watched like all of how I met your mother. And I was in college during my first semester at college. Fire. So yeah, it was like a very like relaxing experience, but like is life about like being AWOL on vacation mentally, physically, spiritually, 24-7? There's another philosophical question, but in my humble estimation, strong conviction, that's not the way to happiness. The way to happiness is to engage and toil with the qualms and fears and anxieties, and that's how you figure things out, that's how you become useful, that's how you become important. We all want to be important, right? That's what we were saying that earlier. We all want to be important. So, like, you're not gonna become important by being the how I met your mother expert, or like the TV show, right? Like, and so this is like a huge thing I'm gonna bring to the public, is like this conversation that no one is having, and no one really wants to have about antidepressants because I think a large percentage of us are on them, and I'm coming at it from a place of like, no, it's like I want you to be happy, and I think you should have the right to do whatever you want to do if you really think that you need medication, but I'm letting you know clearly and with strong conviction that is not the way.

unknown 2:24:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:01

For sure. There's way better routes because you are basically determining you're you're saying a bunch of things when you when you take a pill for the rest of your life. Like, by taking a pill for the rest of your life, you're saying about like 20 like really horrible things without saying them. You're basically saying, like, oh, there's something like inherently wrong with me that I can't fix. Only a pharmacist can fix. You're saying that things really don't matter. I don't need to be, I don't need to really push myself and figure things out how I can fix myself. I can't figure things out myself. You're you're just saying like a bunch of like horrible things about yourself without directly saying them. Um and what will happen is I've seen is that you won't figure things out because you'll be content not figuring things out. And that is how we have gotten, in my opinion, to a lot of the problems that we're at right now. Because we have a lot of people who want to shut off thinking, and they want to shut off that part of themselves that they that they know is wrong with them. Um and and and last thing I want to say about this is like this is a very hard conversation for me to have because it it's a very sensitive topic. It's like, well, geez, David, you don't want to be you don't want me to be happy. You don't like what are you what are you saying? Like, dude, some people need this, like it's mental health awareness. And it's like, no, it's spiritual health awareness. The spirit, everything comes from the spirit. Because when you die, all that's left is the spirit. You may say, well, I don't know about that, but that is the truth that you know within your spirit, is my other strong conviction. So I am coming at this conversation with very much, as much love and hope and positivity and delight in your happiness. I want you to be as happy as you can possibly be. Because guess what? You being as happy as you can possibly be means I'm happier. Do you like you you really think I want a or anyone wants a planet with a bunch of miserable people? Think about it. Like, nobody wants that. So, like me talking about this, I have no like incentive for you to be like sad. Like, at all. There's so many there's a million reasons why I want you to be happy.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:59

I got a bit of um a little add-on for the uh antidepressant part.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:27:06

So I have been on antidepressants, and I remember I struggle with depression, in all honesty. And um, it's kind of just something that I'm I'm still wrestling with and toiling with, and I'm trying my best to get grips on it. But I remember when I took antidepressants for the first time, I thought, holy shit, this is great. This is amazing. So, oh my god, I don't feel bad at all. I feel amazing.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:36

But in my somewhere in me, I was spirit. Yeah, in my spirit, it felt fundamentally wrong. Yeah. It just didn't feel right. So I stopped taking them. And I went back on them. I had no idea about that this about you. I went back on them recently. Oh, recently?

SPEAKER_03 2:27:54

Because I thought, you know, man, it's it's still I'm still dealing with depression, man. It's still fucking me up. It's still kind of messing up my days and my weeks and my ability to care for myself. So, you know, I'll try it again.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:06

Maybe, maybe I'll give it a good honest try. Maybe I'll I I won't, you know, take one and say, fuck that, never do it again. Maybe I'll I'll try my first, you know, prescription. See how I feel when I do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:19

Um I did it, and I had that same moment where I was like, okay, yeah, I feel really good. And maybe it's lightening the load a little bit today. And I recently ran out of my prescription. And I don't anticipate refilling that prescription. Because what you were kind of saying is, you know, we want this we have this kind of fix it mentality. We've gotta fix all these things that are wrong with us. And all of these things that are wrong with us are told to us by doctors and people, therapists, and all of this. And I don't think that there's anything fundamentally wrong with any human being. But what ends up happening when you do decide that you know, I gotta take these antidepressants.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:22

I just can't get a grip on my depression. It's just so bad.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:27

Because you've outsourced the ability to manage your mental state to a what I think clicked for me this second time around when I had depressed decided.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:46

It's like I've I realized that, like, yeah, I struggle with depression. And it's a daily battle.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:54

But but also there's there's something I really need to say right now. It's like you're gonna uh fundamentally carry that belief. Right. Like whether you think you are or you're not, it's gonna be in you, somewhere deep in your subconscious, that this pill is what makes me happy. Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:12

I would agree.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:12

I would say that like And so like you're not gonna have a lot of motivation to build a strong family or get off the couch and stop watching How I Met Your Mother. Or do whatever it is, like that is actually going to give you like pure bliss because you're gonna know you did that thing and went down the mountain, got through the moguls, and now you can celebrate with all your people.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:41

Maybe this is a poor analogy to make, but um antidepressants are synthetic happiness.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:48

They are fake serotonin. It's like a miniature version of Molly.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:52

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's synthetic happiness, and it's been curated in the lab. But what I've noticed is that pure, genuine, uncut happiness is so much more impactful than synthetic antidepressants.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:09

Like, God. I think about it and I'm like, man, you know, I'm fucking in a bad state today. And then, like, I I've created this part of myself where it's the drill sergeant. The drill sergeant in my own mind.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:26

Get up, Commander. Strap your boots up. We're going to the gym. You weak, lazy maggot. You need to get in shape. You need to be able to carry the boats and logs.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:36

And I've created this drill sergeant personality for myself.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:39

And I bet it feels good. And it feels good when you go to the gym and it does, and I feel great. And even, you know, that that poor little private in me who's like, Commander, I don't want to go. Please. No, you can't take me to the gym. It's too early. It's too early. Please let me sleep a little bit more. This drill sergeant, boom, tears the cheats off, slaps underwear on me, pulls me out of, yes, me out of bed, brushes my teeth, takes my takes my medication, puts all the stuff, puts all these supplements and vitamins in me, drinks a bunch of water, throws on shirts, workout clothes, put on my weighted vest, and I walk on a treadmill for 30 minutes uphill. And it's terrible, and it's grueling, and I'm sweating, and I'm panting. I get off the treadmill and I glide. I glide into a state of bliss.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:26

I'm like, you know what, Commander? That wasn't that bad.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:29

I kind of want to walk a little bit. Whip me into shape, Commander. I feel like I can do that for a little bit longer. Maybe we'll go 35 minutes next week. Right. Maybe we'll go for 45 minutes in a month. Right. Maybe we'll be able to do 45 minutes every day for the next month.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:43

But but all of the synthetic happiness is still there. Exactly. But it's still there. But you'll always, always, always, always. I don't know how many times I can say this or think this. You'll always have the nagging itch of your spirit to do that and get want to have the 30 to 35. And I think that 35 to 40. The 40 to 45. You want to grow. That is what you want. That's why your spirit's here.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:11

I think you need a little bit of like radical self-love. I think that's what we're getting at.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:16

Or maybe like radical self-love. Why is that radical? It shouldn't be radical. That's what the whole point of my podcast is. We need to love ourselves unconditionally no matter what. Yeah. And that's the norm.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:27

You need to find a way to weaponize your higher self to get you into it.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:31

And the thoughts that you tell yourself matter. Absolutely. With a little emotion, with a lot of emotion. If you tell yourself there's something wrong with you, even if you're just like, oh man, like you just say it like really subtly, you're just like, oh, there's something wrong with me. Like that is like poison. That is poignant poison.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:57

Even if you say it with a tiny amount. Of emotion. Right. Because people think, oh, well, the things you say, there needs to be a lot of emotion attached to it for it to really impact your psyche, right? That's no. You everything you say impacts your energy. So the things that we tell ourselves are extremely important, and we have an entire population of people that are believe that there's something wrong with them, that believe that they need a label for it. And it's a huge problem. And it's it's it's uh it's a sh it's a shame because there's so much beauty in everyone, and um there's so much beauty. I also think it's very limiting. And there's beauty in you if you if you do take an antidepressant. I'm not saying like, oh, all of a sudden, you're not a great person. I'm not saying I have the answers. Right. I'm not saying I have the answers either. And I'm all I'm saying is that I know. I guess I am saying I have the answer on this. I know the answer of the spirit. And you because you know the answer of the spirit. We all know the answer of the spirit. That's that's what I think. I think that I don't have the answer for you, your spirit has the answer for you. And so, like, if like there's always like fringe cases of everything, right? It's like, and like that's what people use in arguments and and like debates. It's like that was another thing I wanted to say. It's like, I don't believe in debates. I don't believe in I believe in um I I I'll never debate anyone in my life. I believe in conversations. Debate? What do you what does that mean? Like we're what do what does that even mean? Like a debate? I don't even know what that means. Like, that means that like we're like, we've got points of view that we're trying to like win over the no, it's just like we want to come to an understanding. Yeah, like if your point of view trumps my point of view in my understanding, then I came to a new understanding, and that's amazing. I want that. I invite that. And as much as we are obsessed with labels, we are also obsessed with takes and point of and debates. And it's like these are things that are stripping us of our sovereignty and um I really appreciate you being vulnerable though with me about antidepressants, and I want you to know, like, as a f you've been a great friend to me, and like I want you to know, like, as a friend, like I completely appreciate your vulnerability and respect your decision either way about what your spirit wants to do about antidepressants. I have a very strong conviction about them. They have really ransacked my family and created a lot of issues where people I love feel like there something's severely wrong with them and they feel helpless and they feel um and they also just don't get to the core, they don't get to the root of the problem, right? Right. So it's like if you take this pill to feel happy, then all of a sudden we all want to be happy. That's the thing we're all we uh everyone wants to be happy. So, like, if you take a pill to be happy, all of a sudden, like another thing that you're you're telling yourself subconsciously is like, oh, all my problems are solved now. Yeah, so then so then when inevitable nature and life occurs, you don't have mental frameworks and tools to deal with them because you've told yourself and your spirit and your subconscious and your mind, you haven't told your spirit anything, actually, you haven't been listening to your spirit, but you told your mind that you've solved all your problems, which is a fallacy. You're never gonna solve all your problems. So, because that's the whole point of life is to grow and to figure out how to become the best skier through the moguls of fear. So, we're always going to have these issues that we need to navigate and these challenges, and that's what eventually, in our later portions of our life, after having ascended through them and then beyond this life, will give you the true fulfillment and happiness that you're actually spiritually looking for, right? Well, I figured out how to be a good husband or wife, I figured out how to be a good father or mother, I figured out how to be a good teacher, I figured out how to be a good lawyer, I figured out how to do this and that because I realized that all life was was figuring things out. I figured out how to be happy, I figured out how to quell my anxiety and fears, even though they're still there. I figured out how to face my fears. So um, yeah. I wish everyone happiness and joy, and um I'm I'm I appreciate your your vulnerability, and like please don't let anyone listening to this or you either, Brooke, like don't let my words like dictate what you do because your happiness is a very important thing. It's very personal thing, but I would just encourage people strongly to listen to their spirit over society's expectations and labels.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:41

So I would yeah, I agree, but I think I'd wish unhappiness and suffering onto everybody so they have the ability to go through it and experience it. And don't outsource any part of you to anybody or anything or any drug and feel confident in the ability to do anything that you want to do. I mean mind you, this is coming from somebody who's like infantile when it comes to actually acting on the words that I speak. But the practicing what I preach part is gonna become the inertia. The inertia.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:43

Getting over the inertia. Yeah. Just imagine David Goggins just like waking you up every morning. No, when I was working out yesterday when I was doing that hard workout, I was like thinking about David Goggins. Like, I hadn't thought about him in like months. But I was just like, damn, Goggins will be proud of this. No, actually, that wasn't my line of thinking. My line of thinking was um, damn, this is what Goggins does. Like, this is what he does every day. He just like works out like all day. And dude, like, I'm telling you, if you work out for like four or five hours, bro, you'll feel incredible. There's no better drug than that.

SPEAKER_03 2:42:25

There's also another fun little um a fun little thing that kind of uh that I heard that kind of plays right into like Nietzsche's philosophy. It's like oh my god, this is gonna be terrible. Good.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:42:40

This is gonna suck. Good. Yeah. I don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:45

Good. Yeah. Like it's that discipline equals freedom. Right. Because the more things you do that you don't want to do, eventually you can do the things you want to do. Because you've done enough things where you that you don't want to do. Like, if I work out in the in the morning, in the afternoon, or whatever, later in the day, I can eat more because I worked out. I can eat a little worse because I worked out. I can maybe have a drink because I did something that was good. Whatever it is, like it's not all or nothing. And I think we're so quick to go so all or nothing. Oh, I have ADHD, I have depression, I have autism, I have this, I have that. I'm gonna need a pill, I need a pill quickly.

SPEAKER_03 2:43:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:33

I need a label.

SPEAKER_03 2:43:35

I need a zin.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:39

Yeah, we're so all or nothing. We're so um we have trouble sitting in gray for extended periods of time. I think that's my superpower as a person. I've noticed. Like, I I other people struggle with this so much. I can sit in gray forever, bro. I can sit in like, and maybe that's what we were kind of talking about earlier, again, with the tree and the bush and figuring things out. It's like that's gray. You don't know what's what.

SPEAKER_03 2:44:10

Yeah, that's gray matter.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:11

You're trying to figure out what is black and white. And I think that's I think that that is the what the higher spirit wants. Like, I think you I think one of the main goals of life, and this ties a nice bow on it, this kind of thread of conversation. I think, like, one of the main goals in life is like wisdom. Like think of how satisfying it would be, like, at the end of your life, if you like read like a ton of books and learned as much as you could about all there is, like, think about all there is to learn. Oh my god. You think your spirit wants to leave all that on the table for how I met your mother? It's laughable to think about that. And like in that context, like it's laughable to think that, like, whoa, whoa, I can't read. I have ADHD. Someone told you you had ADHD at a young age because you couldn't focus on something boring. Because you were eating Oreo McFlurries and eating McDonald's and and jumping off the walls, drinking yellow five and red 42 or whatever else poison we put in our food. Yeah, that's why you couldn't focus. Because you were trying to read frickin' Shakespeare off yellow 42. Like, as your fuel. Like, yeah, bro. I couldn't focus either. Like, so um, I think that like I used to hate reading. I used to hate reading until I was like 23, until I got out of school, actually, until they stopped forcing me to read.

SPEAKER_03 2:46:00

Same here.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:02

Isn't it funny how that works? It is. It's a it's it's a it's a huge problem, our education system. It's like it's a it's an interesting topic, maybe, for our next podcast to talk about. But like, how do we structure things where like class becomes more from the student's engagement perspective? Like, instead of always coming at the student, well, now we're talking about this, and you gotta study that, and this is what the test is on, and this is it's like whoa whoa.

SPEAKER_03 2:46:37

This is what we're talking about because this is important because the state told me to tell it, and then the federal mandated this, so this is what I have to teach you because this is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:45

What if it went in the other direction? What if it was like, okay, well, this classroom is about science? We have these structures that we are gonna learn at one point, but like, what do you guys want to learn about first?

SPEAKER_05 2:47:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:01

What do you guys want to study now? And then we will get to some structure, because obviously you need some structure in school, but like what if it what if it I wonder if I would have liked reading more if like I had chosen more of like or if I just had a choice. It was like almost like a learned helplessness in school. It's like everything was force-fed, and I I I sucked at school. I don't know about you.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:34

I kind of coasted.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:35

I did like decent.

unknown 2:47:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:37

In high school especially, but like college and before high school. I I did well in the subjects I liked.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:48

I was good at school.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:49

You were yeah, you kind of strike me as a Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:52

But I wasn't, you know, I wasn't overexerting myself. I was just kind of floating and happy with A's and B's.

SPEAKER_05 2:47:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:59

But my parents also told me not to be happy with C's. So it was instilled in me that shit, anything higher than a C is good. And so that I didn't care about getting anything higher than a C.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:13

So I exerted myself.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:15

Did your parents like watch you do homework and stuff? Did they make sure you did it?

SPEAKER_03 2:48:20

Oh yeah. They made sure we did it.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:21

Oh yeah, I never I never got checked on my parents never checked if I did my homework really.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:26

Well, my parents gave emails about stuff we didn't turn in.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:30

Really?

SPEAKER_03 2:48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:31

Was that a school thing or just a school thing. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:34

You could enroll in it too. You could be notified if your kids weren't turning stuff in.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:39

This was in New Mexico?

SPEAKER_03 2:48:40

This was in uh Stillwater, Minnesota.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:43

Oh yeah. Well so when did you move back again?

SPEAKER_03 2:48:45

I moved back when I was like 13. To like start of middle school. But yeah, they were like, yeah. They would let you know if you had missing assignments. They'd let you know what you uh hadn't gotten done or hadn't turned in. My bare town. Any of those came up through. So we had to do our homework. Yeah. But you know, now I read books that I was forced to in English class and never did.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:15

Like I'm I went to the bookstore and I bought Crime and Punishment and Tales from the Underground, Dostoevsky books that are Maybe there's a part of that where it's like the brain isn't like ready to like I don't know. Maybe it's just like it just wants the freedom to explore what's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:32

Right, you're so young. Like, my gosh, like, are we really gonna like throw pride and prejudice on like an 11-year-old?

SPEAKER_03 2:49:38

Like Yeah, on a 13-year-old's desk and say, read this. And 90% of the words are like translated English from like very formal Russian that like make no sense, and all of the way that he articulates his thoughts are very complex, and the underlying themes are things that take and while you're abstract ideas and ways of thinking to understand.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:00

And while you're at it, stay inside all day and uh eat this slop prison slop food.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:08

Eat the food that we have on the menu because you can't afford to make your own lunches. We got Oreos though. We got sh we got slop for you.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:17

Yeah, we got Oreos. Oreos are healthy. I was a school lunch kid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:21

It kind of sucked.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:23

I we had good I had I was lucky I went to school. We did have I went to great schools when I was younger.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:28

I did have great schools when I like schools I went to in still water.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:34

Yeah. Did you go to the public one?

SPEAKER_03 2:50:36

Yeah. Public schools, but still.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:40

Still, still, still water.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:42

Oh yeah, God. Water's another topic.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:47

Oh yeah, water. Um well, Commander Stansbury. I really have to pee. And we've been going about almost three hours now.

SPEAKER_05 2:50:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:59

I feel like I'd love to have you back on one day soon. Sooner rather than later.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:04

But I know we've got plenty to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:06

We've got a lot more to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:08

We've covered what we wanted to this time.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:10

Yeah, I think we could definitely talk about more. Um covered what?

SPEAKER_03 2:51:14

Fear, beauty?

SPEAKER_01 2:51:16

A little bit of Kirk. I would have liked to have gone a little bit more into Charlie. Um I'm very impacted by that. But but I think I think we covered it pretty well. Um I think the listener will enjoy this, and I'm excited to go get some sushi with you right now. Yeah. So we both haven't eaten all day. Um, thank you guys so much for listening. Thanks for having me on. Let's let's shake it out.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:42

Very good. That's a nice shake. Wow. Likewise.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:46

Alright, Commander Stansbury, Brooke Stansbury. You had it, you heard it here first. Apple Bomb incident podcast. Everyone have an amazing day, week. Peace out. I love you so much. I love you, I love you, I love you.