Vortex with Joe Hamilton CEO

A great discussion with the owner and CEO of Vortex, the nation's leading optics brand! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So I just hit it. It looks like we're good.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Alright, Jeff here for Overwatch 5.9. We have a very special guest today. Uh with us, we have Joe Hamilton. Uh for those of you who uh don't know him, uh the Vortex Care Movement will let him talk about both. Um he would be the resident expert on that, being the uh CEO of the uh the company. So um I'll let Joe introduce himself real briefly, of course, and he can talk about um the mission and goal of his company and some of the things that he does. Uh he's at the forefront of leadership, and uh we'll let him talk about the care movement and and we'll kind of get into a little bit about uh what his company does and some of the vision that he has. So uh Joe, thank you for joining us today. Really appreciate you taking the time out of uh your your very busy day. Most people don't understand just how how busy you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Well, thank you. Um it's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited to be talking with you, excited about just be talking, like you said, leadership and culture. And um I am the CEO of Vortex, and uh we're we're a company that um it feels like it's been a really long time, but we started in in 2002. There was a couple businesses that sort of let into Vortex, but Vortex started in 2002. So we got actually a late start to the game in optics, um, but we've risen to be the largest sport optics uh brand in the world. But um I'm more proud about how we got there. And so how we got there is really what what you mentioned with uh with care, which stands for create a rare experience, which is our mission. And uh that's how we go about doing our business is by creating rare experiences, very personalized, uh, you know, memorable experiences for one person at a time. And that's to achieve our vision, which is the brighter, bigger future of uh to being the catalyst that improves the world through service. So a lot of people, especially these days, look at service as a subservient behavior. And we have always looked at serving other people as a superpower. So um that's I'm I'm really excited to talk about the Vortex side of things, but I'm also talking to talk about what's fueled Vortex being successful because I think what we've really leaned into, um, and we're not perfect, but I think we've done a good job of leaning into timeless principles, and then the byproduct of that has been that success of being number one. So it's by it's not necessarily by trying to focus on being the big biggest brand, it's more of a focus on serving other people. So again, loved, excited to get into it.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Well, that that is fantastic. So uh as we we talked both beforehand, uh the whole idea of what we we try to portray here on on the podcast is the idea of continuing service. So whether it be law enforcement, military, first responder, whomever, or someone who, as you mentioned, had a family that was uh involved in that. And now your part and your chances to give back uh to give back safety, to give back an overall mission, uh, to give back in that create that career experience, which is just amazing. And and I I'll give you just a quick personal example. Um you didn't know who I was. I sent uh a message who I thought would have been to an AI thing, right? You know, but lo and behold, it's the actual CEO of the company writing back to me, the CO, the largest optics company, uh writing back to me and saying, Hey, you know, thank you for for what you you do. And uh and and you set a hat and a little personal note. It was just it blew me away. So good.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I don't look at myself as as better or worse than anybody else. So but I mean it was it means a lot when you and other people send a note. Um, it took your time and everybody's busy. Um, and so I do my best to acknowledge those and and to write back to people. Sometimes I get behind, so I'm behind on a few things that people have sent me or emailed me, but I definitely try to get back to everybody. It so again, I I I grew up in the business. I grew up in the two businesses that sort of you know uh led into Vortex, and I and my dad's the founder of Vortex, but I I I was right there with him when he was starting it. And so I remember when no, you know, uh Jeff, nobody took my phone call. Nobody answered my email. There was nobody walking through our front door in our showroom uh for a while. And so uh I remember that. And so to have people now who email me and they tell me, you know, all the products that they have and and how they got, you know, maybe they had a VIP warranty experience or whatever. I mean, it is just is the biggest shot in the arm to me uh, you know, that we have that uh and that we're blessed to have that. So again, it was a blessing that you sent that, and it was it was my pleasure to to to write you back.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Well, speaking about that, take us through, if you wouldn't mind, uh a little bit about how the transformation and you had mentioned two companies led to the one.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Could you kind of talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

I will, yeah. And it it might I'll do it quick, but it'll might be a little bit, but I think there'll be some it'll be some cool history, but I think I'll try to also unpack some some principles that I think anybody can apply in there too. So um, but I promise it I'm going gonna go in the way back machine, but you know, I won't, I'll try to move quickly through the years. No problem so my father uh did three tours in Vietnam and he got out and he got the GI Bill. And so one time I remember him telling me that um, you know, he he he didn't really know what he was gonna do, so he kind of threw a dart at a dart board of respectable careers and it hit dentistry. So he he went into dentistry and he he he was very successful at it. Um and he did dentistry for 10, uh, you know, maybe maybe 14 years. But in in the course of doing that, he got married to my mother, and then he had would eventually have four boys, but he had kind of three at this point. And we were living in Indiana, but um, and he had his practice within a small community in Kendallville, Indiana. And so one of the things though that he realized and realized over that time period is he really did not like being a dentist, okay? Really did not like being a dentist. You know, nobody likes going to see the dentist, right? Uh, and so he would, it's kind of funny because he would try to create this wonderful experience as a dentist for his patients, but nobody's really that excited to go to the dentist. And so it was a really stressful job because of that. And so one of the things that he and my mom used to do is they would take us kids on you know hikes and nature walks, and my mom would eventually get into backyard bird feeding and they would go to these uh local Wild Birds Limited store. And this is in like 85, 84, 85, 86. And so um he struck up a conversation with uh uh a gentleman, I believe it was Ben Rausch, uh, about uh you know what it was like to own that type of a store and run that type of a store. And long story short, he found that uh you know he thought, hey, I I bet you I could have a start one of these stores, and it would be way less stressful, which is hilarious if you know anything about retail. It's very stressful.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Oh, very right.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

But this would be way less stressful, and I wouldn't have to be a dentist anymore. And so he made, you know, kind of inroads with the franchise uh uh office, and there was only you know six, seven, eight stores at the time. And so they told him, okay, great, we'd love to have you, but there's there's already enough stores in Indiana, the next best spots in Wisconsin. So they said, Milwaukee, Green Bay, or Madison. And if you know the geography from Indiana, you hit up Milwaukee first, and that was too big. You hit Green Bay next on your way up, and that was too small, and on your way back, he hit Madison, and this is in the mid-80s, and he thought that was just right. So, as he likes to joke with my mom, they loaded uh three boys at the time. Again, they'd have a fourth a couple years later, into a covered wagon and they moved up into Wisconsin. He sold his practice. So obviously, all that, you know, time, energy, money, goodwill, existing customer base in the town kind of kind of uh, you know, left that to start this retail store, this Wild Birds Limited, in Madison, and that was in 1986. And so he, you know, my dad has a lot of wonderful qualities, but I'll tell you one of his is he's a hard worker. So he's gonna sell his business and his dental practice and he's gonna start this business. I mean, he was pretty much living at that Wild Birds Limited. He was building all the displays, and and lo and behold, he was making traction with that store right from the get-go. But one of the things that was happening when he was in that store is people were coming in and saying, Dan, I'm getting my bird feeders from you, my seed, you know, et cetera. But I also need some binoculars to see these birds out my back window when I'm going on hikes. So for a while there, he was sending everybody to camera stores. And you have to remember, and you'll remember this, 1986, there's no internet. Okay, so you know, you're not sending people to Amazon, right? You're sending people to camera stores. But as a couple weeks or months went by, he's thought to himself, you know, wait a second, I keep sending all these people to go buy these binoculars in other place. What if they could get them from me? And so, and that's kind of the first thing to maybe zero in on, but we'll come back to it. And that is so so he called the brands up, okay? All the different optics brands, and said, you know, here I my name's Dan. I have this store. Here's what I like to do.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Just picked up the phone and called him.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Just picked up the phone and called him. I don't, I mean, I don't know. I'd have to ask, was it in the yellow pages or what? That's a pretty cool idea. Yeah, but he somehow found them and called them, and they just laughed him off the phone because they were like, Well, but it's limited. I mean, do you sell parakeets? Like, I've never, I'm not sending my rep out there. So my dad, you know, especially back then, you know, he's kind of like he's a go-getter, right? So he's like, okay, you're not gonna, you're not gonna, you know, uh, you're not gonna open you up. Okay. So he goes to one of the local stores, he buys 12 binoculars, and he comes back in his store, clears out a case, puts them in there, and marks them a dollar over what he paid. Now, I know most people would say that's a terrible business strategy, but he didn't need to he didn't need the margin. He just needed to run the experiment. And the experiment was, can I sell these things? Will people buy them for me? And I'll figure out the margin piece later. I'll figure out how to make more profit later. Well, lo and behold, he sells all the binoculars in a couple weeks, which is pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

So now he calls those brands back and he tells them everything. He's armed with those receipts, he's calling all those brands back and saying, Hey, you told me this, but here's what I did. So those brands are they're on the phone and they're they're kind of laughing and they're like, Well, Dan, technically you violated every one of our dealer agreements by what you just did. But also, that's pretty impressive. So I'll send my rep out.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

So they send the rep out, and and sure enough, they open him up as a as a retailer, and he starts to sell optics within just that Madison, Wisconsin area, Dane County. And he's doing pretty well. But what he notices is a couple things. First thing is he's not getting the best price from these brands because he's just a small store that's selling locally, okay? And um, but he knows he can sell optics well. So he decides hey, how how can I, I don't think he necessarily has thought consciously the law of multiplication, but this law of multiplication of how can I reach a bigger area and more people. And again, there's no internet, so he creates a mail order company called Eagle Optics, okay? And he starts going to bird festivals around the country or all kinds of shows around the country and has this catalog, this Eagle Optics catalog, and all the brands represented, and he's passing that out. And sure enough, Eagle Optics was growing inside the Wild Birds Unlimited and growing really well. And he was known for he was always known, whether it was Wild Birds Unlimited or Eagle Optics, as for service. And optics can be kind of uh technical for people, and so you know, for to for them to get a fast, friendly uh person on the phone that knew the product and could explain it well, the Eagle Optics uh, you know, side of the business was really growing. And but then what would start to happen was the other Wild Birds Unlimited is in the franchise, and that franchise was growing to about 250 stores. They'd start calling my dad, similar to those customers asking, you know, when he was in the store, and they'd say, Dan, I hear you're the optics guy. I can I get optics from you and get them in the stores. So he's he he's because Eagle Optics is growing, he's able to command a better price. He's still not making that much from a profitability standpoint. Binoculars and and and optics, really, until Vortex got in the game, it was very difficult to make money. It was very much like a consumer electronics, very, very low margin business and and and not that great of service, which we'll kind of get into. So he would sell those products from the brands, he trans chip them to other retailers, and but then they'd get upset with my dad and say, Dan, I can't make any money on this. You're basically selling it to me just a little bit under what you know it's available to be to be bought on the open market. And my dad would say, Well, welcome to the optics business. I'm I'm giving it to you at my cost. But that kind of opened up another loop for him, like, wait a second, I'm getting all these people who want it wholesale from me, but I just don't, I'm not, I don't have the ability from a margin standpoint to supply them. And so, anyways, he starts making inroads to ultimately creating his own in-house Eagle Optics brand. So he's selling all the brands, you know, all the different brands out there. And then now he's got his own in-house Eagle Optics brand. He can sell that at his retail store at Eagle Optics, but more importantly, he can wholesale that back to those Wildbirds Unlimited. But it didn't just stop there because something, you know, a very uh common example that could happen when he was selling other brands. He might have a customer that he spent two hours with on a binocular, maybe like a three, four hundred dollar binocular. He'd sell it to them. They would go off on their trip to Costa Rica and it would drop and it would break or it would get out of alignment. And then they'd ultimately make their way back in the store and they'd say, you know, Dan, can you help me out? I've been trying to call brand X for three months. You know, they won't return my calls. I've sent them a letter, I've heard nothing back. You've got a relationship with them. Like, can you help me here? So my dad would go to bat for them, and every once in a while he'd get something positive from the brand. But usually he was left and he would replace it for them, and he would eat it, which also caused him to then hire people who could actually fix it themselves. But he was really frustrated, and rightly so, because those brands weren't backing him up. And he felt like, hey, my business and my name's on the line, I spent you know two hours with Jeff. I sold him this thing. It was a big purchase for him. I mean, think of $400 back in 1986.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And then they went out and they had nobody back them up when something went south. And so he said, if we ever, if we ever have our brand, we're gonna back them up. And so when he had the Eagle Optics brand, he called it the Platinum Class, which is the precursor to the VIP warranty, which is what Vortex is known for now, where he repair replace anything for free. And as you can imagine, that went over extremely well with consumers, but it also went extremely well when he wholesaled those Wild Birds Unlimited. Those Wild Birds Unlimited knew he had their back, and so he they could have their customers back. And so as you get you continue on to about 2002, what had happened there was my dad was saying, you know, this is working great. And one thing he was really interested in and he found he was really good at, he was really good at the wholesale branding component because he had been a retailer. So he knew all the highs and lows and ins and out of. I only just mentioned a few of them. A lot of difficulties being a retailer. And he's like, because of that, we're really good at serving retailers, but I'd like to have a brand that isn't just a house brand. It isn't just in birding. So he he loved those customers and those dealers, but kind of wanted something that could be more holistic, if you will, and and meet all the different uh all the different industries. And so that ultimately led to Vortex. We actually had a bunch of brands in 2002 that we came out with. Uh, I mean, that, and that was, and if you're in a family business like I was, I grew up in all those businesses, Wild Birds Unlimited, and taking seed out to cars for customers and then eagle optics, and then but I had gotten out of college in 2002. I thought I was gonna go into law school, but I got cold feet at the last minute. I was meeting some people that were lawyers in that law school, and they didn't none of them seemed very happy. And so I I ultimately decided not to go to law school, and that's where my dad said, Hey, I'm getting right to ready to start this thing that would eventually be Vortex. Uh, can you help me out? And so I caught the entrepreneurial bug quick, but that's where we started Vortex. And I'll just pause there. I could go on, but I'll pause there. But I think maybe a couple big takeaways I would mention was if you're getting a lot of requests for something, and and sometimes they don't come in their way of a request, you know, maybe a suggestion, but if you're getting a lot of inputs, I think what often people do is they get annoyed by them. They get annoyed by those. You know, it's like, so for instance, he's in the Wild Birds Limited store. Can I get Dan, where do I get optics? Where do I get up to the end of the camera store? Get the camera store. I gotta get back to selling seed and feeders and all that. And I think one of the things my dad did really good at, or those Wild Birds Unlimited stores, the other ones calling and saying, Hey, you're the optics guy in the franchise. Can I can you help me out? He didn't get annoyed, he got really curious. And he kind of leaned into each one of those things and he ran an experiment. And the experiment, if it went bad, would have stung a little bit. When he bought those 12 binoculars and put them in a case, I mean, that was a couple thousand dollars. That was a lot of money. Um, you know, and if he didn't sell any of them, you know, it that would have hurt, wouldn't have gone out of business, but it would have been hurt. So, and then when he got into kind of that uh to running uh um the wholesale experiment, same thing. He had to invest in his own uh, you know, private label brand. It would have stung if it not had gone well, but he invested enough in both cases to find out is there something here that is more? And of course, in each of those cases that he he did. And so I think that's one of the things that Vortex has done really well, and of course he was the catalyst for that. Was we um we we're very good at noticing what the market is saying to us. Sometimes they're saying it directly, and sometimes they're saying it indirectly, and so we notice that, and then often we run experiments, and those experiments are big enough so we can find out, um, and and they're big enough that it would sting if they don't go well, um, but they're not too big that we're putting the whole business at risk.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Right. So, would you say that basically you've kind of taken those lessons and now you kind of have a model that you can use and that's obviously effective. So it's uh those experiments as you call them. I I like that, I like that term. So these experiments, uh, there are chances, right? They're risks, but they're not risking the entire business, but it's still gonna, as you said, sting or you know, could could hurt.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

And I think experiments is a it's a very positive word, yeah, but also I think it comes with a lot of humility. So I actually, and this is this is also something I learned with my dad, is um sometimes you gotta be careful when you're too bold with a goal. I think it and and I don't think it's bad to be bold with a goal, but I think you need to take the ambiguity out about what you mean when you say a goal. Okay, and you can get a little cocky sometimes when you have a goal and say, you know, come hell or high water, we're gonna do this on this date, buy this. People get real excited, so you will get an initial jolt from people and they will be very gung-ho. Uh, but it's a little bit like pouring honey in their ears. When you say experiment, it's still positive, but it's with the humility that you can be wrong. And the reality is that you can be wrong. And often, even if you run the most perfect experiment, even those experiments that he did, there was iterations, there was pivots that had to happen off of the initial experiment. So I think one thing that we've found that is good is like we call them experiments that's positive. People can still get excited, but we can be very, we can do it with humility in the sense that, like, hey, we live in a highly unpredictable world. In fact, I'd actually say it's predictably unpredictable. And so I think it's really important from any standpoint, personal or business, but especially business, is that you don't know everything. And so I think again, the frame of an experiment, you can have all the positives, but you can also have it with the humility.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Oh, for sure. So being able to accept that feedback, uh, I think is is part of the big equation, right? Yep. And then how you build that team, and we had mentioned this you know before we started, yeah, go to that team and surrounding yourself with people, and I I think it holds uh people back in law enforcement, military first responder area too, but also in business for sure, where you're uh sometimes not afraid, but you you're reluctant sometimes to surround yourself with those people because uh hey, they could take my job or they could steal my idea. Right? So instead you're building people up though. Uh so maybe you can speak a little bit towards that.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Yeah. So a couple things I think is um so remember we talked about that law of multiplication earlier, right? And so my dad could do really well with his Wild Birds Unlimited store that just serviced Madison, Wisconsin, right? But now all of a sudden he gets a mail order business, and now all of a sudden he's expanded, and now he can hit states all across the country, right? He's multiplied his reach, and then he gets all these Wild Birds Unlimited stores that want to get a whole wholesale that product and they sell them. And think about now, now he's not just one location, now he's 250 locations. Law of multiplication. Okay, so everybody gets that, right? The same thing applies with your people. So Jim Collins, who I'm a big fan of, his writings, he calls it a genius with a thousand helpers. Okay. And there are some people who can get pretty far with a genius with a thousand helpers. But I can tell you who the real genius is: a genius with a thousand geniuses. Okay. That's that think of the law of multiplication there. And you know what? You're right. It's not easy, it's hard. But the reward, oh my goodness, it's there. So I think one of the things is if people are just gonna want to lean in to be a genius with a thousand helpers, you have got a ceiling that you are gonna hit. And uh, and John Maxwell calls it the law of the lid, and the lid on the organization is the leader. And often the leader, the way to blow the lid off and to and to rise up as a leader and also for your organization, I believe this might also be John Maxwell, but it doesn't matter. It's it works, is you gotta give up to go up. You gotta give up to go up. But you so you got to hire the right people with kind of the right DNA. You got to train them, you got to give them the right amount of responsibility and right, and then you got to be there with them initially, and then you're slowly kind of letting the rope out, so to speak. Yeah, you're growing your people, but what you're doing is you're multiplying. Now, when people usually come back against this way of thinking, what they're thinking is, well, I'm gonna really grow this person and they're gonna leave. And I would say this you're right. Sometimes that's gonna happen. Okay, but you know what's worse than that is you don't build your people and they stay. Yeah, and then that's worse, right? So, yes, some will leave, and you know what? You did a wonderful thing for them, and you did a wonderful thing for the world. But a lot of them are going to stay, and that's gonna be a good thing because they're gonna appreciate this type of leadership and and the and the and the fact that you empowered them. And so, but again, so I think it's from from like a from a heart perspective, from a um from just a values perspective, I think it's a good thing to do. But practically speaking, if you just want to get, if you're just somebody wants to get in the practical, you want to marry those two worlds up, which I think is good to do, um, it actually works. Okay. So and and and even um even when my dad allowed me and my other brothers, I have three other brothers all in the business, and of course, not just us, there's a lot of people that he hired. By him training us up and then letting us go and kind of run, that was one of the major reasons that Vortex was able to grow, is that he leaned into that law of multiplication from the people side.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

That's uh amazing. So learning these things could take a lifetime. Um you were able to uh mold it a little bit after what your dad did, some of the things you experimented with will per se. But you then led by example, and uh I think that's so important. Uh we see it in all different branches of of life, uh, but it's very rare to see in private industry because private industry typically people hold things very close instead of allowing it to grow. And as you mentioned, the the multiplication idea. Uh a lot of people are scared to do that.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

So yeah, I and I think part of that a little bit is the scarcity mentality versus an abundance mentality.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

And I think let's talk about that. Yeah, I'd love to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, so generally speaking, I think um, I mean, what do you think is so important? Uh what your what you think of your identity is really important, and and and what and how you think of the world is really important. And because it's it's the it's ground zero for everything that's gonna happen in your life, okay? Um, because everything comes out, flows out from there. And so if you look at the world from a very scarcity standpoint, there's only so many sales out there, there's only so many customers out there, there's only so much knowledge out there, and I've got some of it, and boy, I'm not gonna give any of it up. Okay, that is going to permeate every relationship, every interaction that you have. And I'm telling you, from the other person's perspective, even if you don't articulate what I just said that way, they're going to feel it. They know you aren't going to sense it. And it's like an aura and it's repelling. It is repelling them, okay? It is not pulling them in. So I think one of the things is we're not just telling people to just go out in the world and give everything away and remove your common sense from the equation. We're not saying that. You need to have common sense. You need to trust your gut if something feels off. Absolutely. You need to maybe even have some checks and balances. Maybe they're not even formal, they're just in your head, or they're things that you verbally talk about with your team. I'm not saying give that up. However, what I am saying, if you're coming from an abundance standpoint and you're saying there's so many customers out there, there's like 400 million people in the United States and billions of people in the world, and you know, tons of people like optics, and there's lots of retailers out there to get, and I know we'll connect with a lot of them. I mean, you you're starting to now what I would say spiral up versus spiral down.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

And think about when you're coming at somebody from an abundance standpoint. So let's say you and I are negotiating on something, okay? And if we're so the number one uh thing that helps you out in the negotiation more than just about anything. I would say anything, actually, because it's part of the preparation process, is if I can walk away from the table. It's a number one thing. But here's the thing I don't ever have to say it. Because if I know I can walk away from the table, everything that comes out of me is from that perspective. And so the other person, I don't, I'm not coming like, oh, I need this deal, I have to have this deal, if this deal doesn't go through. Because if I'm thinking that, everything that I'm saying, that's what I'm giving off to you. That's the energy I'm giving off to you. And so I think that's just a much better way to come about it. You're also much more creative when you're in an abundance mindset versus scarcity. Scarcity does this, abundance does this, and so you're able to see more opportunities. Um, I now listen, you've got to do all the hard work. You've got to prepare, you've got to work hard. I'm not, this isn't like a manifestation thing where you just sit in some corner and you navel gaze and hope it works. You know, and yeah, and think of abundance until somebody drops off a publisher's clearinghouse check. Nobody's saying that. You've got to do all the hard things, you know, or hard work, I should say, um, to be successful. You've got to work hard. You've got to show up, you've got to do what you say you're gonna do, you've got to answer the phone, return the emails, all of that. But if you can do it from an abundance standpoint, I do think what you're gonna do is spiral up, you're gonna give off this aura, this positive energy that people now are is infectious. It's drawing people in versus repelling them and pushing them away, which is the scarcity mindset.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah, yeah. So that is why you you lead by example, uh, that you've been so successful. Uh, you've surrounded yourself with a great team. Uh but tell us a little bit about the whole idea of how the the care movement came about and the whole VIP experience. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

I'll talk on VIP and then I'll I'll kind of transition to care. Okay and then remind me, I want to talk a little bit on on more on leadership.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

But absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

So if you recall, if we go back and and I remember my my dad had Eagle Optics, he had his own private brand that he sold next to all those other brands, and then he wholesaled it out. And on that brand, he had this platinum class protection, which was this thing that anything that happens to the product, we're gonna repair or replace it for free. No questions asked, no box to save, no receipt to save.

unknown 30:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Well, so here's the thing he had sold those other brands to those customers, right? And again, very often spent an hour with them, sometimes two hours with them. And then they went off and they were and they and they tried, and my dad's like, they trusted me. Like my name is on that, even though his name wasn't on it, right? And so, and and then those brands not backing the customer up, um, and then not backing him up was this really embarrassing thing. And he just felt like it was wrong. And he said, whenever we have our brand, it will be that way. And he said, even if that means we have to go to business, then I guess I just wasn't cut out for business. So this is an important tip, or maybe not tip, but just point to make. And that is that he didn't run data and spreadsheets to see if he could do this warranty. He didn't do this warranty because he had read several other businesses in different industries had done them and they're gonna raise your sales up by 70%, right? So the reason I bring that up is he was invested. He was authentically invested. So that warranty when he came out was gonna have staying power, and of course it did. And it was a huge success for Eagle Optics. So then when we pivoted to Vortex, and me and Seamus, who's been with us for 28 years, and my brother Sam and several other people, so we had we had we had growing people in the company who were getting into hunting from a passion and shooting from a passion and like just Second Amendment and just you know into AR-15s and handguns and all that. We had more, we had some passion there. And then Seamus and myself started to sell these other brands that were sort of not just birding brands, although we sold those too. And and and the economics-wise, is a lot of these hunting and shooting retailers were very interested and they were buying our product. And so it was this combination of kind of passion and the economics together, which you know kind of allowed us to take a lot of brands and and focus them on this vortex. And vortex and also the hunting and shooting was just, I mean, this is just me being just super transparent. It was a little bit more of a masculine industry, and I and we like that too. So that was a component. But um, but anyhow, so when it was Vortex, well, we needed a new warranty name, right? Because it's a new, a new uh, new brand. And Eagle Optics was still going on the Eagle Optics side. Uh, and so uh I thought it was super clever. Um, the VIP has a cool name, but I thought it was really cool what he called it, which was it is for very important people, but the the VIP actually stands for very important promise. And the promise is that we will always have your back no matter what. And again, I think one thing that was really cool that my dad did, and I think we, you know, I learned this from him, and everybody here learned this from him. He was really, really good at um, he was really good at authentically looking at something from the other person's perspective, and I think we toss that out a lot, um, and it gets a lot of fanfare, and I think very few people actually do it. And I'm and I'm gonna talk to you about uh how that fits with the VIP. So, a couple of things. So, first of all, you didn't have to save your receipt. Now, let me ask you, as a consumer, do you ever want to save your receipt? And especially pre-email, right? Like I you want me to save this actual receipt that's probably gonna fade over time because the sun's gonna hit it or what have you. And then where did I put it? Nobody wants to save the receipt. Who wants to save the box for a warranty purpose?

unknown 34:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

So that's a lot of times, though, what happens? Oh, you don't have your receipt, you know, oh, you don't have the box. Well, it's like, well, clearly I bought it from you. I mean, it's got I've got it right here. Right. So even something like that. But then later, um, a couple years later, after he had he has the warranty and gets going, somebody comes up to him and says, Uh, Dan, you know what you really need to do with that warranty? Well, what's that? And he said, Well, you really have to have a warranty card. And he's like, Well, why would I need a warranty card? They don't need the box and they don't need a receipt. And they say, No, you don't understand. When they send that warranty card in, now you got their name, their address, their phone number. Now you can market to them much more. And my dad said, Well, thanks for the suggestion. You know, let the person walk by because he always was very good about you know letting other people keep their dignity. But you know, at the dinner table, he's telling us, no, we're not gonna do that. Because that's not the reason I did this warranty in the first place. The the reason we did the warranty wasn't so I could market to them and send them flyers in the mail. The reason I did the warranty was because we have made a commitment to have their back.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

And so yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

So I think that is uh that's really critical is to actually really believe something before you implement it. Because it because what uh we've seen a lot in our industry is people have come out with their version of the VIP warranty. And it doesn't have staying power. It has a lot of red tape to it, there's a lot of ways for them to get out of it, and a lot of times it's herky jerky. Do they have it on the electronics they do for a couple years, then it goes away. So you really kind of have to get to a fork in the road and say, am I gonna believe this way, even and especially when it costs me? Or am I just doing this so I can look at the end of the quarter or the end of the year to see if I got the ROI on it? And of course, obviously he was in the one, uh, it took the one, uh, the road less traveled, as you might say, and it and it made all the difference. But um, so anyway, so it now thinking of that as sort of like uh, you know, uh where the heart behind that warranty is, um, naturally it kind of makes sense that our vision at Vortex is to be the catalyst that improved the world through improves the world through service. So our goal is to actually improve the world, and our superpower is service. We we are all about serving other people. We don't think that's a bad thing, we think it's the thing, okay? And so, and then our mission is care, so create a rare experience, and that's a rallying cry, um, but there's a lot to it. But really, just to kind of shorten it up is we, uh one person at a time, we want to lean into serving them personally, we want to see them, we want to notice them, and we want them to feel important because they are. And so we're all about a highly personalized experience. Um, whether that's a warranty or whether that's a call-in because they have a you know an antelope hunt in Idaho, and uh they they're they don't know what rifle scope to get, and they also don't even have, you know, they don't even know where they're gonna go. And we've got guys on the phone that are gonna be like, hey, I've been I've Idaho or I've hunted in Idaho, you know, multiple times, and here's where you need to be looking, and here's what you need to be doing, and here's the best rifle scope. So I mean, we just lean into just serving and loving on people. And so if that's our mission, but you see, the vision is to be the chaos that improves the whole world through service, and the mission is care. Well, in order to really for us to actually get this bigger, better, brighter future, care just can't be our mission. It's got to be a movement. We like if we're doing our job right, we're inspiring other businesses, other leaders, and other just people in general to lean into serving other people, to lean into making uh the exchange highly personal. Okay. What everybody's doing now is they are sprinting towards efficiency, automation, and AI. And I actually don't think those things are bad things, but I do not think they're ultimate things. I think people are ultimate things. And I think there's a place for automation, and there's a place for AI, and there's a place for efficiency. But my goodness, they they can't come at the expense of effectiveness and especially effectiveness on serving individual human beings. So we've got a phrase that says the most human company wins. And we think we're an example of that. We are not perfect, but we we in those human exchanges that we have with customers or with our UPS guy or with whoever, we're gonna lean into that and make it highly human and highly personalized. And we're gonna do it in one-off situations too. So we're gonna, we're gonna, we might have a situation where we we had somebody, I don't want to say too much because I want to keep it private, but just the other day we had somebody reach out on behalf of uh their boyfriend who had who had uh was a big hunter and hunted with a really good friend, and that that friend had you know taken their own life. And um, and and obviously it was very devastating for the this person's boyfriend. And so they were like these these two guys were big Vortex fans, they hunted all the time. I've been trying to rack my brain on ways that I could, you know, somehow be just a just have some light, bring some light to my boyfriend. So that is a very highly one-off personalized situation. We were honored that they reached out to us, okay? So we did some really unique things. I don't want to say I don't want to say what they were necessarily because that's not the point of this. But that was a high uh a very um personalized experience. That does that experience um or us doing that a lot, it the the scaling doesn't look like it can scale. So if somebody's in the mode of scaling, they're gonna be like, well, if you do that for them, you're gonna have to do that for everyone. No, you know, and the and the reality is, no, you don't have to do for everyone, but I can do it to that one, and it's gonna make a different difference to that one. And you know what? That's really cool. And I'll I'll say this cool that experience does scale, and I'll tell you how it scales. It scales for her boyfriend and it scales for her, maybe not on a spreadsheet, but internally from momentum. And of course, this is the reason we do it, but sometimes the byproduct is that person shares that story. Okay, and so the scale comes from the story scaling. So that's the thing, though, that is kind of being snuffed out in 2026 with this obsession with efficiency and AI and automation. It's they're okay things, but but used in the wrong way, just like anything. You know, they can be used for good or they can be used for bad, but they need to be put in their place. And they are they are they are secondary or tertiary or beyond the hot the white hot center is is people. So, anyway, so that's a little bit about care. There's a lot of things that, you know, I don't know if we have time, but there's uh we'll we'll be sharing um, you know, on social media or my podcast or videos or things like that. We'll be sharing about like we call it our flywheel. That's directly from Jim Collins. It's our strategy that we continually pushing our flywheel. So we're gonna share stories, we're gonna be sharing frameworks, we're gonna be sharing all these types of things um that have helped Vortex, you know, kind of become this powerhouse. But it's not because, you know, we're so great. I think we're great, but it's not really that. It's because we've leaned into these timeless principles, and over time, if you're consistent, that leads to great outcomes.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Yeah, consistency for sure. And it's going to circle us back to leadership uh in just a but uh uh just mentioning uh uh uh the principles that you just said are what we do in mentorship and what we do in helping other veterans or helping other law enforcement or first responders, uh, because we call it mission and purpose, right? If if you don't if you lack that mission and purpose as a person, right then you find yourself in some dark places.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

So you don't have any compass or a rudder.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yeah, absolutely. So we we embody what you just said uh in another fashion, and that is by helping people. And I I think both places hit what you mentioned, and that is being human. And that is, I think it hits it right on the head.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Well, and I so it's it's first of all, it's awesome work that you guys are doing. I mean, it's it's so needed and and it's so important. But you know, one thing so my pastor always said is like the mortality rate is hovering around 100%. And uh, and so you know, it's kind of sobering to think about, but you know, we're all gonna go someday. And I think I I I don't think, you know, we're gonna be, I don't think you should be clutching your PL spreadsheet uh when that day comes. And it's wonderful to have a great PL. It's wonderful how we'll have a successful business and all those things. I'm not saying they're not important, they are, but I think what's really gonna be most impactful is the people that you really touched, the people that you empowered, the people that you helped through a dark time, the people that you helped find their purpose and find their mission. And I think that actually does scale. It just doesn't scale in the way we think of scale. We think of scale in these pretty little spreadsheets and these charts, but it's gonna scale in somebody internally. And so I think it doesn't mean you just you you you you don't work and you don't have a product that is that makes money and profitable, but it does mean that you always remember what's the most important thing. And the most important thing are people, and I think the most important thing you can do is serve other people. And I would argue with anybody. Maybe I would that's not true. I don't know if I'd argue with anybody. Sometimes it's just better to not. But What I would say is, I do think you will have a life that you're more proud of if you lean more into those things than if you try to get rid of all those things. Um, and you're like, because that's that's too much work, it's too much time, it's such a it's such a drag on my day because I need to be efficient over here on all these things that are on my agenda. Um, I think there's a way to balance that, but I also think at the end of the day, what I'm gonna be more proud about is is the stuff that's on the serving people side and how do I empower them and how do I help them? And I and I I I truly think if uh if people if people really went more in that direction, it would be a better world. And ironically, I'd argue from your business perspective, whatever kind of business you're in, I think the byproduct is you're gonna be more successful too.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah, I think so too. I think at the end of the day, if you're helping people, and I use this example in in mentorship, if I'm able to change one person, then I've done something. Yes, I can change 10 people, I've really done something, right? Yeah, so but that one person is gonna pay it forward. And every single law enforcement, first responder, veteran that I've spoken with in many groups, multiple nations, uh, they all have had a life of service and they want to continue it. And and that's what you're mentioning. Uh, you're taking your product, and now you're being human and you're providing service, service to people. And that makes such a difference.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't agree more. One of the things I wanted to mention, just because it's kind of a rant I always like to go on a little bit when leadership comes up. So this is a little bit of a pivot, but I think the segue, thank you, because I was gonna mention the yeah, so is um so here's one thing about leadership, okay? And uh I think a lot of times leadership is talked about and framed in either you're not a leader or you are a leader. And I think that's a really poor frame to start from, okay. I think what people actually mean is are you a good leader or are you a bad leader? Okay. But everybody is a leader, and I will prove it to you because you are leading yourself right now. You may not be leading yourself well, or you might be leading yourself uh really well or somewhere in between, but you are leading yourself well. And if you want to, so leadership, in my opinion, is a progression, okay, and it starts with yourself. Once you're able to lead yourself well, which I'd argue sometimes is the hardest thing to do, now you know, now you're leading by, you can now lead by example. And when you lead by example, now you've broken through and you can lead a team. And when you lead a team well and you're empowering your team and you're growing your team, guess what? Now you're leading a team of leaders who's probably going to be leading people. So it's a progression. Um, there's a cool uh the movie kind of switched it up a little bit, but there's a cool uh thing in Zaro, okay? You know Zaro, the the hero, right? And uh when he's learning to become Zorro, he uh you know his mentor, his guide sticks him in a circle that's just as big as he is. And then it's and but there's some bigger circles outside of him. And it's like, what's this? Well, what's this is is that you don't you don't get a move to the bigger circle until you perfect until you perfect leading what's in this circle. And of course, the only thing in that circle is him. And so I think that's one so first of all, it's really empowering to think about. You don't have to think about if you're a leader or if you're not a leader, which again is goes to your identity. You already are. The question is what kind of leader do you want to be, and what kind of leader are you being? Then master yourself first. And once you've mastered yourself, think of yourself in this little circle that's just as big as your body. Once you master that circle, that may take a while, okay? And every now and again you'll slip, okay, because everybody slips. But if you can master that circle, you've earned the right to expand the circle. And then it's you, it's by example, it's a team, and then it's a team of leaders who are leading people. So it's a progression. And I think that's a really important thing. And like I said, a very empowering thing for other people. Most people think do you have direct reports? Oh, you're a leader. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're already a leader. You're already a leader. Now, if you have a leader, if you are a leader of direct reports, you've got a big responsibility. You better be leading yourself well, you better be leading by example, and you need to lead those people well. So it's a bigger responsibility, but that's because the circle grows. But I think that's one thing that has really helped me and in my journey. And when I talk to people, I think it really helps them as well.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah, yeah. So when we talk about it, we we say the difference between a manager and a leader. So uh you can be appointed a manager, you can be responsible for those direct reports, as you had mentioned, but are you growing that team? Are you empowering them? And then are they becoming leaders? So then you're not a manager, you're a leader. Right. That I think is the difference. And then there always go back to, and you uh I I know your answer is can leaders be made or are they born leaders? Well, you just mentioned it, everybody's born a leader because you're leading yourself.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

So you know, now and and I would say this too an identity thing. When you think of yourself as some way, you start acting that way right now. So when you think of yourself as something I want to be, you don't act that way yet because you're not there.

unknown 49:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

So it so it actually, if you want, if you want to be something, whatever that something is, you should actually act as if you're already that thing because you'll actually start acting that way. Do you see what I'm saying? It's a little bit of a play on words, and it doesn't mean that if you're like, well, I want to be a world-class, you know, quarterback in the NFL, okay. All right, here's what I would mean, though, for somebody like that. Let's say that person's 14 years old and they want to be in the NFL, right? And and so they're they should say, so I should be thinking I'm in the NFL right now. I would say, I probably wouldn't say that audibly, but yes, because here's why. If I'm in the NFL, what should I do? Well, I should probably eat right. I should probably be working out. I probably shouldn't be like doing you know drugs and those, right? Because none of because if somebody's really successful in the NFL, well, hopefully they're not doing those things. But right, they shouldn't be doing those things. Like they're very, they're very uh um, you know, good about what they put in their body. They're really good about getting their workouts in, they're really good about their mobility and their, you know, and keeping their joints and all that healthy. So that's what I mean. When you think of yourself as already that thing, you act from that place versus like I need to earn the right to uh or I need to figure out how to eat well and maybe maybe I should figure out how to work out and all those things. No, you're already that thing now. So start acting like it. That's the difference, and that's why identity is so important. That's why if people are always thinking this leader thing is way out there and I need to achieve it, it's it it it actually it it it sounds like it works, but it actually doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

No, it doesn't, and that goes back to a little bit of law enforcement, but a lot with the military, uh, particularly in the Marine Corps, where everybody's a leader, right? So and that's exactly what you're speaking about. And then I always used to tell newer officers well, even if you don't know what you're doing, act like you do. Okay, yeah, why? Because people are looking to you in an emergency because you're in a uniform, you're representing something, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:00

So same idea in business, but you you've taken that mentality and grown it in a business sense, and it really has paid off because now it's showed that you can grow this team, you can care for others, you can uh grow an experience, uh, and you can uh change even just one person, but you've changed multiple uh and I and probably maybe in the Marine Corps or the or the you know police, you know, there's probably a time where if if you don't know something, you probably shouldn't say it, especially if it's like in the middle of something that's like catastrophic. But I I can tell you one thing. One of the most one of the most powerful things a leader can do is say, I don't know. Um but but but we're gonna work to find out. That's it. And um, and I think another thing too, here's one thing that holds a lot of businesses back. Okay. Um, this is really a small business mindset that can hold people back. And that is if I own the business or if I'm the leader of the business, like you know, you know, the president, the CEO, or something like that, I have to be the best and most knowledgeable at everything in my company. That's a really poor mindset to have. Now, I'll tell you this if you're just starting a business, it's very likely that for a while you will be that person. You might be the only person in your business. Okay. Because you might be the only one, right? Exactly, right? But eventually, if you want to grow, you need to lean into that law of multiplication. So even just right outside my office, I have sales, I have operations, I have supply chain, I mean, I can go all around the company, marketing, okay. Every leader in there, okay, and their people are better than me at their job. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

I have no problem admitting that. And I tell you one thing, that is a good thing. It's a problem if I have leaders in every one of those departments and people in those departments, and I'm the best one. I can tell you one thing. I might be a leader, but I'm not a good one. And so a lot of times people like to act really tough and say, well, I know everything there is in this business. I know it better than anybody else. Well, I can tell you right now, that business is gonna stop growing. That business is gonna have a ceiling. I don't know what it is yet, but that ceiling is lower than had that person hired and developed people to become better than them at certain things. Now, I you can be really good at things, and I won't brag at what I'm good at. My people can probably name those things that I'm really good at. But again, if I'm leading well, I am hiring and I am empowering other people to be better than me.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Absolutely, and that's exactly what we strive for. And when I explain about hiring or explain about motivation or even mentor mentorship and surrounding yourself with those kind of people, uh I often mentor uh students and often mentor uh interns and people like that, and even newer uh professors and adjuncts, things like that. Uh when I do, I uh I kind of have a formula and I ask them questions and kind of get a uh a look at what they picture themselves doing. And I always ask for a three, five, ten-year plan, you know, where do you see yourself going? And then we kind of work at how do we get there. But what are some things that you look at when you're trying to bring somebody on board uh without giving away any, you know, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 55:37

No, no, I'm I'm happy to. I I yeah, actually, all of our competitors know what we do. Okay, just uh very few are willing to do it. So I I have no problem uh you know telling, but um so I think one of the things to be the most successful when you hire, you bring somebody on, is you want to hire somebody who's aligned with you. We call it the alignment effect, okay? Okay, and so they have shared values and they have a shared belief. Now, I'm not they don't have to articulate our vision and mission and core values exactly the way we do. But we're gonna ask questions and we're gonna dig in to try to find out they they word it their way, but for instance, are do they love serving people? Right? Or is that annoying to them? Okay, do they have an abundance mindset or do they have a scarcity mindset? Okay, we could go on and on and on, but the idea is I and I'm not gonna tell them the answer. I'm gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna ask questions and we're gonna look for things. Now, I'm not saying if somebody doesn't open the door for somebody that they're not gonna get hired, but but it's it's a it's a bump, it's a positive for them if they open the door and hold it for somebody. It's a positive that if they talk to Robin or Kim in the showroom, that they're looking them in the eye and they're and they're saying please and thank you and they're treating them with respect. Or are they treating them like they're some gatekeeper and the important people are the people they're getting to? Okay. If they do that, that's not good. Uh, you know, and so we're looking for all those things to see are they already aligned with us? So I'll say this. I I think diversity can be a wonderful thing. I think diversity of values in the same organization is a recipe for disaster. Okay. Now, I'm not saying this person's a bad person, but if they don't like serving other people, if they think that's stupid, if they think that's weak, we are not a good fit. So you go do you, you go find an organization that thinks the way that you do. Do not come here. I don't I don't want you here, but you don't actually want to be here. I'm actually serving you by not trying to get you in here. Do you see what I'm saying? And so, especially when you're dealing with adults, there are miracles. There are people that can do a 180, okay? I've seen it. It's rare. Generally speaking, when someone's around 25 and beyond, that's kind of who you got. That's kind of who they are, okay? Again, I know that people can change and I've seen it. And by the way, depending on your organization, you may be a nonprofit that helps people pull off 180s. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about hiring people that are trying to fulfill your vision and your mission. So I'll say this if your vision and mission is you want the most profitable company no matter what, okay? Good for you. Just say it. Just say it. That's not my number one. I I like being profitable. I like making sales just as much as the next guy. It's on our list of priorities, but it is not the top of the list, or what I like prefer rather than a list is core. It's not the most core central thing. The most core central thing is serving other people. But again, what I'm suggesting to people listening here is that yours may not be that. That's okay. But whatever your core thing is, make it your core thing and hire people and draw people that are aligned with that. That's when you when you pick a spouse, you know, that's in your friend group. And that certainly applies for your business. So the number one thing I'm looking for, if I'm looking for like, hey, how what's the type of person I want to develop? Well, first and foremost, they got to be aligned. They've got to be aligned with our vision, mission, and core values. And so I tell people, I'm not looking for your best buddy that you know you go to Happy R with and he tells the best jokes. Uh, like, you know, does he work hard? Does he do what he says he's gonna do? Is he honest? Does he care about other people? Does he like serving other people? And by the way, that can look different. For some people, they wear serving people other people on their sleeve. But for other people, they're very stoic and they're very introverted, but they got a big heart. So we got to dig a little bit because not everybody's gonna look the same, but what we're looking for is that similar core aligned values and shared belief.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

Oh, agreed a hundred percent. And like-minded people obviously will work better together anyway. Um, if someone comes in not knowing, and I tell this to people who go for internships, let alone jobs, you know, how to prepare, and that is understand and look at the company's mission value. You know, do they have a mission statement even? And what is their core values? And as you just mentioned, if it doesn't align with what you you value or what you like, well, why are you even going there? So it's right, it's the same thing that you're you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

Well, and it's and also just to get really practical with what you're talking about, it's great advice because one of the things that's really frustrating uh is if you have a candidate in there and you ask them, like, well, what do you know about us? And they say, I don't really know anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

Did you go to the website? No. You know, did you so that um but that's kind of interesting for two two reasons. Number one, I'm thinking like, uh preparing for things is really important, whatever it is. So you're not showing any preparation whatsoever. But also, even if we remove the fact that we're doing an interviewing, uh interview here, that's really that's that that's really showing that it's all about you. Right? It's all about you, meaning like if I'm a candidate and I just want a J O B, you know, and I didn't go to your web page and I didn't read anything about you and I didn't get to know you, then uh the by proxy, I'm not you it you're telling me you're really not interested, you're not interested in other people. You're probably not gonna be interested in what other people have to say. You're not gonna probably be a very good listener because your your sole focus is just on yourself. And listen, you gotta focus on yourself a little bit. No question about it. But I can tell you one thing that's not a problem in this world. We don't have a problem with people who don't focus on themselves enough. I can guarantee you that. Now I know that every now and again there's one or two, and you got to tell me, hey, you need to actually take care of yourself a little bit better. That happens, okay?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:03

It does happen when you're mission-focused.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Yeah, and I could see that with some mission-focused people, but I tell you what, there's a lot of people that they are, you know, they can be a little too self-centered. And even in a negative way, they might be down on themselves. So I think, you know, practically speaking, what you're talking about, somebody regardless. So for me, if I I'm not as in as many interviews, but if I'm in an interview, uh I'm studying that resume, I'm getting online, I'm trying to find out about that person because one, it helps me do my job better on interviewing them. But two, I want to show that I valued that other person. Like I actually spent time focused and studying and thinking about them because that's a way that I can actually respect them and respect their time.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

I really like that. So it's very rare to see a top leadership who thinks that way, and it's so progressive and so fantastic. Um, so number one, so thank you for what you do for your people and what you've done to help others. That's amazing. Uh when we tell people to study and to look at you know core values and what they think they want to do. Um, well, you you know this change your job seven times, right? You know, why why is that? Well, that's because you're not you're you're not forward-thinking, you're not thinking about like-mindedness, you're not thinking about values, you're not thinking of yourself, and then not being prepared. Uh for example, we set up an interview panel in law enforcement. And what what do you know about the town? What do you know about the the city? What do you what's the structure? Who's the who's the chief? You know, if they came in and you you happen to have walked by and they they had no idea that you were the CO of the company, well, what uh what do they know? You know, what what did they what did they do? But now on the same token, you're looking, and we always mention watch what you put out on social media, watch what you're doing, watch your circle of friends, because it it's going to be reflective on you.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:06

Right. I mean, you you nailed it, and and it and it's uh yeah, it's it's really, really critical. And those people really stand out who do those things. And often those are the ones who are getting the offers. And so, yeah, if you can kind of if people can be really objective when they deconstruct it themselves, um, that can be pretty powerful and say, you know, what energy am I giving off? You know, did I only give people the time of day that were the hiring manager or the leader? Did I give everybody the time of day that I got to interact with, you know, and and and how did that come across? You know, I think that that can be really, really powerful because you, you know, you're always on display and you're always projecting something. Um, and so you might as well be uh projecting something positive. And I don't mean like Pollyanna positive, like you're walking around with some Cheshire grin. I don't mean that, but I mean there are people that take things in stride. Um, you know, and I and I think uh I think Jocko, you know, his whole good response when something happens and his response is good. You know, I think uh I think that's a really good mentality to have is like, hey, yeah, things may not be looking good right now, but we're gonna figure it out. You know, having that kind of default positive, and and I'm gonna be creative and I'm gonna work hard and I'm and I and I'm gonna, you know, we call it internally here, we call it find a way. That was our challenge coin that we did for internally last year, was just find a way. You know, I think that that's gonna suit you well. You may not always get the job, but um, or the thing that you're hoping to get, but I think over time, aggregate it out over day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, boy, you're gonna get more benefits than if you have that negative mindset.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

I I love that figure it out. I love that find a way because those are um values that are mentioned in in all of first responder and and in in the military world too. You know, figure it out, find a way, and and make it work. Um I also wanted to. Circle back to what you mentioned real real briefly, and that was uh we watch people too when they come in, right? From the very beginning, from the very moment. Are they early? How are they dressed? Now, if they can't afford to be dressed, that's that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:15

But did they take a moment to at least look presentable? You know, and uh what did they do uh to do that? And then how did they treat the the the the gatekeepers per se? You know, what did they do? And if they're treating everybody truly with you know respect and they're projecting themselves with some positive energy, that that's volumes right there.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

Yeah, I love what you said. So uh one last thing to touch on leadership, absolutely, and that is uh how you embody it. Uh and I'll take it back to the personal example. Happened to me twice in your in your company. Um was just a a random email, and one was a LinkedIn um just a random thing, just rushed out and got a got a personal response, and then the next within a week, I received this uh hat with a handwritten note, it was just amazing, and I was like, wow, you know, and then I wrote a comment. I I still remember this because it really made an impact on me. Um I I said there is no other brand that I would deal with other than Vortex, and I wrote that in a comment. And and you wrote back and it wasn't AI, it was you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

No, it was me. I can I can I can assure you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

I I know it was, and you wrote back and said, you know, that really meant something to me. Yeah, it does that when I read that, it it resonated, and it said it said to me that you truly value and you're truly living what you're saying, yeah. And to me, that meant why would I deal with anybody else? So it really speaks volumes to what you were saying about scalability and about how you know this is sustainable, and and even though that's not all about the bottom line, but you know what? You just got a customer for life, yeah, you know, right then and there. What do you think that I'm telling other people that I'm dealing with? Now I'm dealing with thousands of people, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

What do you think that I'm saying? Right. If they say to me, what are you doing for your your next red dot, or what do you do if your next occular, what do you think I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

Right. And that's where, again, I think I think it's great from a value standpoint. It's great, you know, but practically speaking, it also is great. Like practically speaking, like like you said, you know, it's like, yeah, all the people that you're gonna talk to, you're gonna mention that. But I also think, too, and this is, you know, maybe this is this is for everyone, but it's I think especially if somebody runs a business, is um so I've got up a 30-minute commute from my house to Vortex, and I pass by dozens, if not hundreds, of businesses between there and here, right? And so does everybody on their commute or shoot, when they hop online, I mean they're getting hit with ads. There is no shortage of places to for people to spend their money. And of all the places to spend your money, you decided to spend it with us. Okay. So that's a pretty big deal. There's a lot of places, and of course, we're not the only place you spend money with, but but there's a lot of places you can spend your money on, and you decided to spend it with us. So that is a big deal. That did make my day. I never get tired of hearing that. And I never get tired of meeting the people and seeing the faces behind the people who write those comments and buy our product. And so, um, and I think every business should do that. Now, again, sometimes I'm late on getting back to people on an email or a comment, and I'm sure I probably miss some people, but um, but I think if you can show up and you have that intent that you truly care about the people that are actually deciding to spend money with you or the people that decided to work for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

Like they can work for a lot of different places. They're deciding to spend those 40 hours a week or whatever they are with you. That's a big deal. And I think, you know, and so every day I try to just remind myself like, you know, those people matter. Um, you know, the people that work for us matter. They're putting, they're investing their time and their energy into this thing and this is this vision and mission. We got people like Jeff that decided to buy armor optic. And listen, I think you should buy Vortex, but you can use another brand's bread dot. I don't think you should. I think you should use ours. But you can. They are out there and you decided to use ours. So, yes, I think you know, it it was awesome to hear that. I we always say, like, you know, begin with the end in mind. The end is we tr we treated somebody so well, we served them so well that they say I'm a customer for life. So, yes, to hear that was a huge shot in the arm.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:57

That's awesome. Yeah, and to take it just one step further, not that anybody needs to hear all this, but I even went out and got a custom slide just to fit one of your optics. Yeah, that's that's how much I invested in it because I just love it. That's awesome. Yeah, it really changed my whole perspective on the the company, and then it so much so uh that I'm was honored that you answered uh my uh uh LinkedIn again, and you answered, and you're like, sure, I'll I'll do it. You know, I'll fit into my schedule. I'm like, oh my god, you know, like the biggest optics company in the world, he's gonna spend time talking to me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Well, it's been a pleasure, it's been a fun conversation, and I can tell that we have shared values and we have shared belief, and I think everything that you're doing to help people transition is just some awesome work. You definitely have the same center of of serving and and caring for other people and and uh and just appreciate that about you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

Well, thank you. And the same for you, and I recognize that the minute I got that first little postcard and and hat. Now, to a lot of people, that doesn't mean a whole lot, right? You know, what does it mean? Well, you know what it means to me that you took the time to lead by example. That that that means to me, your company is gonna be run the right way. Thank you. And that's what it meant to me. So I I truly value your time. I thank you for the information because now I'm going to take that to my students, my mentees. I'm gonna take what you just said, uh, and I'm memorializing it, and I'm gonna take a lot of what you said and and share it. Right. It really does align with most everything that you said. Um not everything you said actually aligns with what you know we've been saying and and what we try to do. So you're running the business like we want to run lives. It's amazing, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

So well, thank you. I really appreciate the time. Again, it's been a lot of fun and love what you guys are doing. So, again, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

And thank you so much for uh for joining us. Uh so once again, this is uh Joe Hamilton. Uh Joe, could you just please for the listeners that have hung with us this whole time, if they don't know you already, would you mind just saying a little bit uh closing on uh not only uh obviously they could type in Vortex and get a million things, but what what's like uh a closing thing you'd want to put for your your code?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:28

Yeah, so obviously, yes, if you're interested in the optics side, vortexoptics.com, you should go check us out there, really any of our dealers that that sell our product. If uh if this kind of care, this creator experience and and how we lead here really resonates with you, then we have vortexcare.com. We're pretty much on every social media, um, heavy on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube. And YouTube, there's a lot, probably the heaviest place we unpack stuff. And we have a podcast, Creator Rare Experience with me. Um, that's on YouTube. So again, I'd be honored if you go there and hopefully um not only this conversation with Jeff, but uh but content that we're putting out there will resonate with you and be a catalyst in your life.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:09

Love it. Well, I I can't top that. So thank you so much for all the time that you spent.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:15

Yeah, awesome. Thanks, Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

Thank you.