Overwatch 5:9
Important safety, survival, and security topics including firearms safety, first aid training, PTSD help, firearms instruction and training, NJ permit to carry a handgun topics, and many more!
Overwatch 5:9
Talk with Captain (Ret.) Bill Walsh
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After a distinguished career in public service, Bill recently concluding his tenure as a Police Captain and Commander of the Operations Division with the Voorhees Township Police Department. His professional journey began on the front lines of policing and evolved into executive-level leadership, where he oversaw complex operations, shaped departmental policy, and invested deeply in personnel development.
Throughout his career, officer wellness and resilience became central to his leadership philosophy, not as an abstract concept but as a personal mission shaped by tragic losses within the profession and the cumulative realities of service. Those experiences, combined with decades of supervisory and command responsibility, led him to pursue advanced training in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and to intentionally bridge the worlds of law enforcement, education, and mental health.
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Hi, Jeff here from Overwatch 5.9. Our special guest today is Bill Walsh. We will uh get into uh Bill's background and uh let him tell you what he does, how to get a hold of him, some of the things that that he's involved with. Um for those of you that are seeing uh hearing the audio portion, not seeing the video portion, the shirt of the week is uh dogs and freedom from the Hero Co. Uh they donate proceeds to veterans with PTSD for uh service support dogs. Uh so a little shout out to them. Uh and uh Bill, thank you for joining us today.
SPEAKER_01Of course, thanks for having me on the show, Jeff.
SPEAKER_00So uh Bill, um, amongst many other things, um, he is a uh adjunct professor. Uh he has a multitude of uh degrees and we'll go over some of them and uh a bunch of licensure licensures, uh, which I'll let him get into because there's numerous. Um I'll let him talk about usually when there's one or two, I'll tell them. Um and uh to get a hold of Bill, we'll go over it again. But on uh LinkedIn, uh, if you get into uh LinkedIn and you look at uh William D. Walsh Law Enforcement, uh that'll be a link that you can get a hold of Bill and take advantage of some of the services that he does offer. And uh I'm gonna let him explain it because it's everything from mentorship to test prep to um helping out with uh uh people who are in need. Um he is a licensed uh mental health counselor, we'll discuss that. Uh he also works not only with uh law enforcement first responders, but also veterans. So uh thanks for joining us. Uh Bill, really appreciate your time. And I'll kind of let you finish the self-introduction there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course. Thanks, Jeff. Yeah, so retired in uh December 31st was my last day. I retired as a captain with the Voorhees Police Department in Camden County. Uh prior to that, I served with the Cherry Hill Police Department as an officer, and prior to that as a dispatcher for Voorhees and Belmont Police Departments. So I've been in law enforcement in some way, shape, or form for a while since I was the age of 16, actually. Um retired fairly young. I was very blessed and fortunate to make it to the finish line. I've always had a passion for officer health and wellness. I had uh two uh co-a coworker and a family friend who are both on the job who took their own lives about three weeks from each other in 2009. That kind of was what spurred my interest in uh asking more questions and trying to create some things that could help uh destigmatize seeking help and also to help uh help officers and their families and military personnel veterans as well with seeking help for some of these uh often unseen uh injuries that we have. Um, so I went to school for uh master's in administrative science where I studied uh police suicides and developed a program for police supervisors on recognizing the warning signs of officers uh with risky behavior, suicidality. Uh, continued that trajectory, went to school at Temple University, developed a holistic wellness program as part of my capstone there, uh, which I implemented at the Vorise Police Department, included annual wellness visits with a uh police psychologist, Dr. Jen Kelly, who's still part of my story, and I'll get into that. And then uh also created uh two multi-agency police peer support teams, uh, family wellness components, and um, you know, just a whole different breadth of services that were available to try and address the officers' needs and remove any impediments to help seeking behavior. Uh in 2020, uh felt compelled to do more in this uh field and began schooling at Liberty University to become a uh licensed associate counselor, received my master's degree uh in clinical mental health counseling. I'm licensed in the state of New Jersey as a licensed associate counselor, and I am a nationally certified counselor from the National Board for Counselor Certification. Uh so now I work under the direct supervision of Dr. Jen Kelly at her practice in Hattonfield, New Jersey, uh doing wellness visits, therapy, uh, critical incident debriefings and group settings for uh law enforcement personnel, first responders of all different uh all different disciplines, firefighters, EMS, and then also with our military personnel, uh whether they're still serving in active or a veteran status as well. Um I have two kids, one's eight, my son, Liam, and my daughter is Adelaide. She is four. Uh, we've been married for 20, uh not 20 yet, coming up on top, uh 16 years. Um, and uh, you know, I'm very fortunate, very blessed, had a very rewarding and fulfilling career, retired uh commanding the operations division, the heart and soul of the department, you know, patrol, and uh, which was always my baby, and uh the criminal investigations detective bureau as well. Um yeah, so second generation cop. Dad was on the job 43 years. I I thought 25 was sufficient for me. Uh my uncle is uh still on the job. He's the chief over in Somerdale. Uh, I think he's over 40 years at this point. Uh my dad was a chief in Belmont. Like I said, I worked in in Voorhees and Cherry Hill respectively as a cop. So that's a little bit about me. But uh, you know, I've seen it from both sides. I've seen it as the uh child of a law enforcement officer, the stress and the anxiety and the things that come with that that impact our families. And I've also seen it from the front lines and as a leader as well.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow. Yeah. And uh additionally, you do some other work um academically. Um, you're an adjunct professor, and you also uh deal with the National Institute of Justice. Maybe you can just speak about that briefly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course. So yeah, I'm an adjunct with the School of Criminal Justice at Rutgers University of Newark under the uh leadership of Dean Nancy Levine. Um really great experience working at Rutgers Newark. Uh we have a really great criminal justice program, outstanding students, outstanding professors, and and team up there. Uh and then with the National Institute of Justice, I'm a member of the uh 2021 cohort of the Law Enforcement Advancing Data and Science Leads Scholars Program. And what that really does is it takes like-minded officers from throughout the country. They typically pick 10 a year from across the country. Um, it's a pretty intense uh process to apply for it. Um, and they pick officers who are interested in evidence-based policing, evidence-based practices, uh, using and conducting research. And uh oftentimes we'll pair up uh every three years, I think they open it up also to academics and to uh professional staff members to come into the cohorts. So they'll try and pair up uh academics with uh people actually in the field to do some academic work, doing research uh and things like that, and actually operationalizing things. So uh Dr. Janice Awama from American University is a member of my NIJ Leads cohort. She's on the uh academic side. Uh, she and I partnered with a um project very early on in our leads tenure to explore the impact and um efficacy of police peer support programs. We've published on that several times now and spoken on that several times as well. And that work continues with two active uh research projects involving both the uh multi-agency police peer support team in Camden County that I assisted in finding with Gloucester Township, Cherry Hill, and Voorhees Police Departments, and our second team uh also founded with Dr. Kelly in uh 2025. And that's consists of the Cinnamon, the EFSHAM, the Medford, and the Mount Laurel Police Department. So we're in partnership with American University. Um, all of our peers fill out um aggregated information forms that uh collect data to see where we're where our peers are in most need of support and where we need more training for our peer supporters so they can best accomplish the uh the goals of the program. So it's been a very fruitful uh relationship with American University and our our people have taken it very seriously. And it's it's been very beneficial to be able to show uh not only the peers who are on the team, but also the chiefs of these departments that the resources are actually being utilized and that we're seeing a lot of successes.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's fantastic. Uh and the nice thing is uh that we don't know the successes, but we certainly know the the the downside, the the the dark figures uh uh per se of those that uh unfortunately succumb to uh to to the the worst parts of uh uh of stress and other things that that go on in trauma. Um because as we've always um said in law enforcement or in any first responder, nobody calls you because you're having a good day, right? So you know you're you're not seeing the best of people at the best of times. So you're there has to be a way to deal with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know, unfortunately or fortunately, it depends on how you look at it, but our programs that we do have that are in place and our leaders who do take officer health and wellness and organizational health and wellness seriously, um, they do help their people out, but that's not their story to tell. It's a confidential story, it's a privileged story. Even as a mental health clinician, I take things with me to the grave. Um, I know that there are a lot of officers who did come forward and who have gotten help and are in a much better place, but that's not our story to tell. Um, and I think unfortunately, um that kind of keeps the missed, the uh mystery and the stigma stigmatization of accessing services alive and thriving because we don't have enough people who are in a good place, or maybe they don't feel like they want to share their story, or maybe they're just not ready to share their story, or maybe nobody's given them the proper mechanism to share their story. Um, so that the narrative gets flipped and people realize that if you do need help and you come forward for help, um, it's not an automatic career ender and that you can you can survive. And oftentimes the folks who do survive, uh post-traumatic growth is a real thing. They come out much stronger, and then they channelize all those adversities they went through and overcame to uh benefit and help other people, which is a beautiful part of it.
SPEAKER_00And and there you go. I think you hit that right on the head that uh those that face that kind of adversity and seek the help that is necessary uh all oftentimes become the ones that are big advocates for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and then on the same token, obviously keeping it confidential, but getting the information out. So um having podcasts, having articles, having chapters and things that you know that you've done, uh speaking engagements that I I've personally seen you at, uh that's uh help creating these teams that can go out and discuss these things um in confidence, but uh it it isn't a career ender, uh that is for sure. And breaking the stigma is extremely important. And uh you have a couple of books coming out soon uh that I'm sure address those things. Uh we're gonna be working on a uh article and doing a chapter uh for moving forward uh to even add to to what you've been doing. But the idea is to get to spread that word so although we're not giving specifics, we're giving generalities of how do we help one another.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yep. Sharing sharing our stories of hope really is uh I think that's that's a really important part of this. When when people come out on the other side and they're in a place where they're able to do so and they want to do so and they're comfortable with doing so, you know, they don't need to share all the details, but uh hey, I I went for help and I actually got help and I'm still here and I'm still doing well. You know, I think that's uh there's power in that message when we're when we're in a place to do to deliver it, and it's not always going to be the case, but sometimes it might be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and it often has been. I've had uh several guests on the podcast that have been uh willing to share their stories. Um some that have been on the brink of um suicide, some that have been on the bottom of the bottle per se, you know, drinking, some um addicted to to uh drugs and um things happen. Yeah, absolutely. And and they they some of them do share, uh, but as you had mentioned, it is their choice, and if they choose to do so, uh they're pretty powerful advocates.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And we're I think one of the biggest things here is like recognizing our humanity, right? Um, I think oftentimes law enforcement officers, uh, in particular in certain states uh are held to ridiculous standards that are um that are not realistic, right? And it it dismisses the fact that people are people and people make mistakes and people have stressors in their lives and crises in their lives, uh, regardless of what their profession is. Um they may have had adverse childhood experiences, they may have a substance use disorder. There's all kinds of factors that are playing in taking care of a sick loved one, uh, you know, parent with a special uh with uh illness or child with special needs, there's all kinds of other factors at play here. Um and I think a lot of law enforcement organizations or oversight likes to continue to punish people for their mistakes and nausea, you know, without recognizing, right, it's possible to grow and to change. Um, and to not always uh oftentimes, you know, I was I was upset with uh, you know, uh some of the decisions made uh by governing bodies about publicizing people's disciplinary records and things like that, because uh, you know, people who are convicted of crimes, they still have some kind of mechanism for expungement, whereas law enforcement officers do not. So, you know, where is the fairness in that? So I think that what's boils down to a lot of it is um the stress of the street. Um, I didn't mind and I could deal with it, but a lot of the organizational and the political and the um just the the higher unrealistic standard that officers were often held to, I think, is unfair and it ignores a lot of our humanity.
SPEAKER_00That often is the case. Uh, and now we see states turning to licensure for policing. Yep. And that is another issue in and of itself. Um that that could create some problems down the road and potentially prevent people from seeking the help that they do need because they think it's going to impact uh their ability to keep their license. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I even hear from officers so many times, unfortunately, not even just officers, but first responders in general and military. You know, uh my doctor said I should really take some kind of medication for this. Uh, it would help me out with my quality of life and having this debilitating anxiety, but I don't want the job to find out. I don't want to get jammed up. And, you know, for a while I thought that same way too. Um, that you know, we can't take these medications. I'll lose my gun or I'll lose my badge, these symbols of authority that aren't symbols of our humanity. And the reality is you can take medications. And there's a list from the uh Association of Occupational Health uh providers that that says what you can and cannot take while you're on duty, um, or what you have to take with certain restrictions while you're on duty. And you're allowed to take antidepressants or anxiety medications. There's certain ones that you can't, but there's other ones that you can. Oh, as long as you do your due diligence, you do your homework care physician, and have that conversation with a primary care physician who you trust, right? I think that's really important. We were shamed once, and I'm not afraid to admit it. We had a uh a family doctor come and speak to our peer support team who who had heard me on uh Jerry Ratcliffe's podcast, uh reducing crime a while ago. And he proactively reached out to me on social media and said, Hey, I'm a family doctor, I'm retiring, I'd really like to get in front of cops and share messages of of what they should be doing to take better care of themselves with their physical health. Uh, because there's a lot of cops that were patients that uh unfortunately never came in and I never got to tell them the message, right? And uh one of the messages he gave us during uh that particular lesson, uh he asked us how much research we did into buying a new car. And, you know, everyone had stories about, you know, I check this out, I check that out, I send this guy an email, I negotiate with that person, I do it on the phone, I drive down to Maryland, whatever the case is. And then he asked, Well, how much how much research do you all do into your primary care physician? And you know, we we knew immediately what he was getting at, you know, and I was embarrassed to the fact oh, I just went with whoever was near my house and took my insurance, you know, and that's that's not the way to be doing business. And you know, after that, I went and did some research and found a good doctor that was a fit for me and you know, made a lot of improvements in my life, uh, as far as my physical health, my mental health, emotional health, all these other things, uh, from uh her. And then she was able to come and speak to our peer support team too, which was like a full circle moment.
SPEAKER_00That's great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's it's really interesting.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. So oftentimes uh what is neglected is not only um, as you had mentioned, the humanity of it, but just the idea of taking care of oneself. So we know that sleep has a lot to do with uh health and wellness. So working shift work, if you're stuck working shift work, what that does to your body. And then being on an extended period of a call and not being able to eat, hydrate, whatever. Um what do you eat, when do you eat, uh, you know, those sorts of things. Uh and and just overall health itself. So uh you know, you know, are there standards? Um and and does a yearly physical fitness standard help or or hinder or does it do anything? Can you even get it instituted?
SPEAKER_01Uh right. You know, and there's some of the research out there on that. I mean, there's there's research that shows that it can be incredibly effective when it's done in a way that is um more rewards-based than it is punitive. Sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and what we find um in um policing, especially in the military, is that things are based on uh punitive uh outcomes rather than um some reward or even just acknowledgement based.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Some departments you get a coin for a certain level of fitness or uh a commendation bar you're wearing a uniform to uh to express you know your pride in your level of fitness. Other departments you get financial incentives or or uh administrative time off to use, like a compensation day for it, or a number of compensation days. So there's ways to there's ways to reward physical fitness. Um I did some work consulting with uh a police department in the Southwest, and they actually uh had it built into their program where if you went to your family physician for a regular checkup and blood work and all, they would fill out a form and then you would get time off for that. And the same, yeah. If you went for therapy, you would bring that to your therapist and they would you would sign it and you would get time off uh as a reward for going and taking care of yourself.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. And we have we're fortunate that in um well, uh for those of you that either follow or don't follow the the uh the podcast, uh the police departments Bill's mentioning are in uh New Jersey, and I was also a police officer in New Jersey. Uh so uh the experiences that we're we're speaking of in law enforcement, uh although we have gone across the country in many facets, uh where we're discussing uh New Jersey departments right now, and the reason I mentioned that is uh twofold. One is uh and I don't know if this has changed recently or not, but uh for medical excuse me, not medical, marijuana itself, uh New Jersey is one of the I think still the only state, but potentially not, uh that could have changed, uh, that allows police officers to to indulge in uh recreational marijuana. And uh the uh the second point is uh doing a physical fitness uh uh test uh carries with it sometimes some issues because of unions. And not saying anything bad about that, but uh if you don't have a gym or a membership to a gym or you don't provide time and you don't provide resources, uh that can be uh a negative impact on trying to get it implemented.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and oftentimes like risk management is uh one of these like hindrances to a lot of our uh forward progress in law enforcement and in government is risk management consultants. Um, well, if we put a gym in the station, we let them work out on duty, what happens if they get hurt? Well, what happens if we don't let them work out on duty and they get hurt?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so uh the argument had been, well, we're running around a track, they slip, fall, get hurt. Oh, you you know, officer A is gonna on purpose say, Oh, I twisted my ankle so they can get time off, right? And now we have to deal with overtime, and you know, so this whole argument uh begins and then where does it end?
SPEAKER_01So the one if monsters are never a good thing.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So what we try to do is look at the the positives of things and and and see that the the the swing of uh uh resiliency itself, and I I'd like to uh do a couple things. One, talk about in the grand scheme of of uh policing itself, and that's the escalation. And then secondly, uh resiliency, what what does that really mean? So uh there's different definitions uh academically, there's different definitions uh depending upon what state you're in, different definitions depending upon who you speak to. But uh just the world according to Bill Walsh, what do you think resiliency is?
SPEAKER_01Um so resiliency is the ability to bounce back after in adversity, right? By having uh a solid foundation, a solid core of uh coping mechanisms that are available that are positive coping mechanisms, uh, anticipating that at some point in your life, no matter what you do for a living, no matter who you are, no matter how old you are, uh adversity is going to knock at your door. Um, in law enforcement, we are obviously more prone to that because of our trauma exposure. Uh becoming a uh clinical mental health counselor. I was in class learning about psychopathology. And, you know, uh, like a typical cop, I probably was smirking at times where I shouldn't have been. And the professor saw me and, you know, called me out. I'm like, well, what's what's funny? And I'm like, you know, you it's not funny, but it's sad. And she's like, I'm, you know, I don't understand what you're saying. I said, well, you know, I've heard from every professor I've had so far in this program that if I'm going to be effective as a counselor, then I myself should be in counseling as a client, as a patient. And she said, Yeah, what's funny about that is, well, what's funny about that is I was a cop for over 20 years and I'd never once heard that. And I wasn't hearing about these things in the silence and safety of a therapy room. I was seeing and breathing in and smelling and hearing these things there, and seeing people's raw emotional reactions to bad news that I had to give them, or seeing their loved one dead, or whatever the you know, child child death of children, all these horrible things that I witnessed. Nobody was telling me if you're going to be an effective cop, you should be in therapy yourself. And I wish they had, you know, eventually I would find my way into therapy, but it took me a long, longer time than I wish it had. Um, but that that was interesting. And then the other thing that they caught me smirking on in that same class was um they were talking about common like uh things that lead to diagnoses of of mental health disorders, particularly ones that are uh psychopathologies, uh, being uh pretty extensive hypervigilance. And the reason I was smirking about that, and you know, again, I got called on everybody's hypervigilant. Hypervigilant. And if you're not hypervigilant, you're not a good cop by our standards. I mean, we had a thing in our training room that said, like, uh always be prepared on or off duty or something like that. Like, all right, well, when's the downtime? You know, it's right, it's unit's unsustainable. You know, we can't we wonder why we have heart attacks, we wonder why we have all these health problems, sleep apnea, you know, suicide, substance use disorders, and you know, uh, you know, I think a lot of us have have dealt with that or have seen that firsthand. Um, yeah, it's it shouldn't be a shocker that we have these things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so back to the uh point of New Jersey, uh there is the uh hero program or hero connect program, excuse me, and uh Deborah is a hospital system here, and Cooper uh is a possible system. And and they both um participate in that, where if you were a in the military or a first responder, uh you can go to these programs, the Zero Connect program, and if you go to the Deborah hospital itself, uh there are no copies. And if you go to the Cooper, you'll actually get put ahead a little bit, depending upon what's going on. Uh and they'll also help Hero Connect, that's why it's called Hero Connect, uh all the services, so it makes it less cumbersome for you. Uh, because a lot of times first responders uh don't really put themselves first.
SPEAKER_01No, no, it's often it's often the case with caregivers. It's always uh, you know, caregivers are taking care of everyone around them, but they're neglecting their own health. And that's a major was a major theme in studying to be a mental health counselor was you know the the concept of burnout. And um, you know, they call it in the in the uh mental health world uh impairment. And impairment is you're so uh you're so unregulated yourself or you're burnout yourself that you're you're impaired. You can't take care of other people. Um, you know, that was another thing. Like, you know, I always drew parallels to policing as I'm going through this program, right? And I was I was an act, all my degrees I got while I was an active cop. Most of them I was on shift work, and I'm incredibly proud of that. Uh, but I would I'd always draw parallels to policing. And I'd think about that like, all right, all right, yeah. So we have a lot of people who are burnout, and by this definition you're giving me, impaired, I would say, um, that that are running around doing doing the policing job. And and honestly, it's because we don't have enough people and you know, we're we're shorthanded, we're putting people back on the road that, you know, haven't been on the road in a while because we don't have enough staffing. Um, you know, a lot of folks on the road who are definitely past their prime and you know have done their time and shouldn't be on the road anymore and should be in an office job, but unfortunately that that wasn't always possible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then the uh the whole sleep thing.
SPEAKER_01So sleep, yeah. My my primary care physician, you know, she put it great. She said, top of your pyramid as far as importance is sleep. And if you have sleep, then you have mental health, and then everything else falls behind it. I was like, wow, and that's that's a that's not a psychologist or psychiatrist or a counselor, that's a medical doctor, like a primary care physician saying it's sleep and then mental health and then everything else. You know, and if those things, those things are taken care of. There's a great book called Uh Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker, uh, that really explains like the physiology and and the necessity of sleep and what actually occurs when you're sleeping. Um, and unfortunately, a lot of times, you know, uh in law enforcement, we and in general, not just law enforcement, people look for the quick fix, whether it be uh a diet routine or exercise or you know, cliff notes of a book, whatever the case is. And uh, you know, I think a lot of folks misuse substances to help themselves fall asleep. And I think even to your point earlier, I think marijuana is now becoming one of those substances that is abused for people to fall to sleep. And a lot of these substances, they may make the person go unconscious, uh, but they're not helping them achieve all the different stages of sleep that are restorative to that individual.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So uh just to kind of break that down a little bit, uh sedative is not the same as f going into a REM or a deep sleep cycle. So you know being able to be knocked out is one thing, but you know, do are you actually sleeping is is the other.
SPEAKER_01And then I mean you if you wake up still tired like that, then you didn't hit all your full sleep cycles. Like yeah, it just didn't happen, sorry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And we know that uh impairment then happens when when that doesn't occur.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, going to the compressed shifts, I think is a a lot of uh there's obviously positive shift compressed shifts. I worked six on three on, I'm sorry, six on three off eight and a half hour shifts when I was with Cherry Hill. They don't work those anymore. Um, and then when I went to Vorhees, we were already on 12-hour shifts and we'd rotate every two weeks. And now fortunately, they rotate monthly. It's better for your body, it's better for your sleep. Uh, but our bodies weren't designed to rotate shifts. Our body weren't designed to be up all night. Um, but the somebody has to guard the castle, right? So, I mean, it is what it is. But uh, we have to recognize that our body takes a incredible hit. And a lot of the um, I did a I have a presentation I give for departments, and it talks really a lot about the the common disorders that are impacted, uh, that impact policing, right? Uh, both mental health disorders and physical health disorders. And then the I talk about the commonalities of how these disorders come into being. And a common thread seen throughout physical health disorders and mental health disorders is shift work and sleep.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yep. And then we have the whole thing of can we enact a different shift? And is there a political or unionized reason? Or is it just that there's not enough uh manpower to do so? So there's all these things to think about. And then you know, there's financial constraints as well because you have shift differential, you have other things to think about. Um are you able to afford this? And then you have overtime work that you have to assign. And are there other projects going on that you need uh manpower for? So uh you know this from doing operations for for a while, so uh and you had a rather uh by consideration in New Jersey rather a larger department. Um you kind of see how these things pull together. Um at the time when you weren't as well versed or educated uh in that, uh did you notice some behaviors or some things that you used to adapt as opposed to what you would do now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I came on the job, alcohol was our culture. Um, you know, I came on the job, I had just turned 20. Um it was not uncommon for us to have choir practice after a shift on the three to 11s rotations, especially. Um midnights. Yeah, midnight shifts. I mean, you you know, having having a couple pops after a shift at seven o'clock in the morning was it was normal because that was five o'clock for us, five o'clock in the afternoon. Um, and that was an adjustment for my wife. She was like, Why are there people in our living room at seven o'clock in the morning? I mean for work, you know, having pizza and drinking. Like, oh, where did you even find pizza at? You know? Um, so I would say, yeah, as far as that goes, um, for sure. Um, excessive overtime was another thing. Um oftentimes, you know, I grew up, I don't, I think the generation coming in now, you know, sometimes they get a bad rap, but you know, I think the positive of this generation coming into our ranks now is they have better boundaries than we did. Um I was brought up in a culture of work, you know, and if the money's there, you get the money because the money's not always guaranteed. So I've been working since I was uh 12 or 13 years old in some capacity.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and just working. And when I worked uh with Cherry LPD working those eight-hour shifts, I was able to suck up some some side work, uh, extra duty employment before shift and sometimes even after shift or both or one or the other. And uh, you know, working six days in a row, eight hour shifts plus the side work, I was working a lot. And you know, I had that money. Um so it was uh definitely a different culture. We didn't have the the boundaries and the uh I think uh yeah, I think I just don't think we had as healthy boundaries as we're seeing now. Uh our reliance on um substances, I think was was incredibly unhealthy. Um and I I think even with being a union delegate for a while, um, we didn't, especially like being a union delegate, as somebody who was younger in my career, I saw the more the more vocal uh senior officers were more concerned with what they were going to get when they left, um, as opposed to what everyone was gonna get for in the 25, 30 years they're working there, um, which is very, you know, it's good for them on the way out the door, but it's very short-sighted for the overall health of the organization. Um, I gave a presentation several years ago at a uh a very large union convention about how you know unions are unions need to own some of this too. I can't just constantly be pointing the finger at the administration. And that's coming from a prior union delegate and a prior administrator. So I'm trying to see both sides here. Um, but hey, your collective bargaining agreements, why don't you have time in there for paternity and maternity leave? You know, why don't you have longer time in there uh for bereavement? Why don't you have gym memberships in there or the ability to work out on duty in your collective bargaining agreement? Instead, uh oftentimes the focus is on what that final number is for your pension. And if you're not able to not able to live more than five years after it, what the hell's the point?
SPEAKER_00Well, there you go. So that brings us to uh a number that I often refer to on the the podcast in particular, and that is uh even though 22 a day isn't really representative of the the real suicide rate for uh the military for veterans, because it encompasses so much of people, you know, older generations and other things, but it it's still significantly higher than the regular population. Uh and when I say regular population, I mean those that hadn't been in the service. And then the suicide divorce rate of uh most first responders, uh in particular uh law enforcement. So uh you have a couple of uh unfortunate stories yourself. I I I have a few to to speak towards. Uh I would guarantee that in the audience people who had been in uh the job um have their own horrible ones to talk about. Uh so when you said five years, that is usually the typical life expectancy after retirement in law enforcement. Um we're we're trying to effect a change on that. So uh what are some things that you see that now uh and you had mentioned the the different culture, I guess, of uh the the newer people coming on to the job, but what are some other things uh besides potentially acceptance of help that really wasn't acceptable before? Um what are the things that you see?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think uh generationally, not just law enforcement, but generationally, I think people are way more open to uh talking about mental health, um, to talking about getting um going to therapy and getting treatment and and treating mental health as health as it should be treated, because it's there's no difference. Mental health is health, period. Um, I think that that that generation has a much better um handle on it. It's less stigmatized, it's more of a uh, you know, our brain is one, you know, in my opinion, probably the most significant thing we work with every day, right? I mean, it's making all of our decisions. And uh oftentimes, you know, we're we're treating a stomach virus more with care or or with uh or some cramps in our legs with more care than we are something we're recognizing that's a little off in our in our thinking or our mindset or in our mood, right? So I think that the generations coming in now are more aware, less uh less concerned with what people think too. I mean, the uh both my kids when they were born, uh, 2017 was my son, and then 2021, like right in the middle of all the COVID crap, or sorry, 22 was my daughter. And um, yeah, I barely used any time off when they were born, you know, and I probably even used more than I would have earlier in my career. Um it was very much faux pas to take time off um for the birth of a child. It was very much kind of uh, I won't use the word, uh, but there was a word associated with it for officers who took too much time off for the birth of a child. And you know, and it's incredibly unfair. And, you know, looking at it as an administrator, and I even had um, I mean, I remember walking into our sergeant's office one day, and and one officer had just come back from paternity leave, had just had his first baby, was all excited. So I was asking for pictures and things. And a couple of the other officers were teasing him about how much time he had been out. And I said, you know, I'm happy that you took that time because you're never going to get those days and months back of being with your newborn baby and that experience and that bond. Recognizing uh in school to become a counselor how formative uh that period of time is in the development and the attachment of an individual and their future mental health. You know, I was kind of kicking myself in the butt because I was in such a hurry to go back to work. Um, whereas I could have spent more time at home. And I told that officer, if I had to do it all over again, I would have gone back and did exactly what you did. Um we need to stop treating this like some badge of honor. Uh, because it's not. Um, at the end of the day, at 25 years, I handed my badge in just like everybody else, and the show went on. Um, my family's still here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, fortunately, you're still with that family.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, because that's not always the case.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that is definitely not always the case. Yeah, that's for sure. Uh, because of those very things that you just spoke about. So when you start and it depends on what subject you're you're speaking on, of course, but uh what are some things that are kind of universal or that you always want to speak about no matter what the subject is? There's there's got to be a couple of points that you always want to touch on, no matter the audience, no matter what the subject matter really is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I try to um I always try to anticipate the threat, right? Just like in policing. Like, all right, what's what's the obstacle, what's the hurdle? SWOT analysis is not not the SWAT team, but SWAT SWOT, like opportun strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. You know, I kind of try to view things like that no matter what. So going into a room of officers, I I'd always try to make a point that when I left there, they knew or were more aware of resources that were available to them and to their coworkers. Because oftentimes, and I always hit this point too, um, I've been in periods of my life that were dark and I didn't realize it, or I knew it, but I didn't know how to help myself, or I just had to keep trudging along because I wanted to help other people more than myself. And other people had to tap me on the shoulder and get me the assistance I needed. Um, so oftentimes I'm speaking to the peers to look out for the warning signs in their coworkers or in their friends or family, and then empowering them with the resources and the information on how to get them help. Um, so I always talk about the confidentiality and the privilege that is afforded to the relationship with a mental health clinician and with a primary care physician, uh, particularly when you're the one that's help seeking. Uh, when you come forward and say, hey, Bill, I would like to see you for counseling, or hey, you know, for me, it's Dr. Julie. Hey, Dr. Julie, I'd like to talk to you about this thing I'm dealing with. Um, they work for you. I work for you. I don't work for the agency. Um, so the information we share, that's a privileged conversation. There's confidentiality. Even seeing clients for employee assistance program visits, you know, the department may have sent them, but the department finds out they attended and participated, and that's it. Um, there's nothing beyond that, right? So it's really, I have a license to the state of New Jersey that I am not going to lose. And I also have my ethics and my integrity and the fact that we've been working really hard at this for a long time to demystify this and to destigmatize it for people to rise that it's not going to get back. And one thing I say, like kind of tongue in cheek often is you know, you can go talk to a mental health counselor or a psychologist, and um, you know, you may leave that room and they think you're absolutely nuts. Um, but they're not gonna say anything to anybody because you're not suicidal actively, you're not homicidal actively. You didn't disclose child abuse, and there's no judge's order to disclose, right? So, other than that, you have the same rights as everybody else walking into the room for therapy. Um, same with your primary care physician. There's a doctor-client privilege. The information you share in that room with your doctor is between you and your doctor. Um, and then just reminding the families of that as much as possible, too. Um, because I've been in places where I wish I had called and talked to somebody and didn't, the bravado took over. And, you know, my wife said, Hey, you're a human being first, like you're not Superman. Like I know they keep telling you that, but you're not. Um, so just recognizing that having the family involved, and and you know, we're pretty good at coming up with BS and coming up with excuses as to why not to go get help and things of that nature. Um, so one of the key strategies I used when we implemented our wellness program in Voorhees was having family members come in for wellness nights and actually hearing directly from our psychologist about confidentiality and privilege so that they understood and they could access services for their loved one if they needed to, or for themselves, because that being a spouse of a cop is incredibly stressful, being the child of a cop's incredibly stressful. Um, so those are are two of the main things I always hit on, making sure they know the resources, the confidentiality protections, that their primary care physician is another avenue for help, um, that their union is an avenue for help, that their church could be an avenue for help. Um, the old adage of, well, my department doesn't do anything. Okay. Yeah, that may be the case. And if that is the case, then shame on your department. Uh, but there are other things that are out there. So don't use that as an excuse not to get yourself help or to get a coworker help. There's plenty of other avenues out there that we can get you help with. Copline's another one. Like they're out there. There's there's services that are available.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Cobline's a good one, yeah, for sure. So uh yeah, kind of hard to follow up with what you just said because you hit all the all the points, Bill. That was great. Uh it's absolutely positively uh something that's so important that we have neglected for a long time. And when we hear these terms of um in use of force, you hear de-escalation. Oh my gosh, what are we doing? And those words in terms of you know mental health, we hear you know, resiliency and what does that mean? So uh thank you for putting uh into perspective a bit.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, and the resiliency has kind of become an overused word, um, especially here in the state of New Jersey. Um resiliency is, again, like I said earlier, the foundational piece, right? You know, knowing adversity is common, being able to bounce back. But there are going to be things that happen that challenge our resiliency. Regardless of how resilient we are or how resilient the resiliency team thinks they've made their cops, there are going to be things that absolutely rock that individual's world. And a lot of it isn't on duty. A lot of it is a death of a family member or a parent with dementia that they're taking care of, or, you know, um not being able to make the mortgage, you know, all these other things piling up, a diagnosis of a disorder or illness for a child, uh, all these things piling up, plus going to have to help complete strangers for 12 hours or 16 hours a day, or working forced overtime. You start throwing all that stuff in the mix. I don't care how resilient you are. Um, sooner or later something's going to collapse. And if you're making your people work forced overtime for days and weeks at a time, how can you expect anything other than burnout and collapse? Um, so recognizing that, yeah, it's great to have resiliency, it's great to have these programs and throw around buzzwords and pet the dogs and things like that, yes. However, the those things don't substitute for taking care of your mental and physical health and seeing the professionals who are licensed and who are trained who can help with evidence-based techniques and methodologies that are proven to work and proven to be efficient for helping people who are dealing with very stressful jobs, who are being exposed to trauma. And, you know, they can't just be, oh, we have a resiliency program or we we have a speaker come in and they hand out stress balls. That's great. Fantastic. You're opening the door, you're telling people it's okay to not be okay. But when they come forward and say, I'm not okay, then what? Because that's that's when the rubber meets the road. I always, whenever I do consulting work, I uh I either call or I talk with the supervisor on the midnight shift or I call the EAP number that they have plastered all over the place at three o'clock in the morning and see who answers, if anybody. Yeah, right. And do an integrity check. And oftentimes those services fail miserably because no one's ever checking them. How true. Yeah. So I think it's important we recognize when officers are involved in critical incidents. Again, recognizing it's not just on duty. Um, they have a death of a loved one, you know, their their spouse has a miscarriage, whatever the case is. Anybody really checking up on them to see how they are? Not just how you doing. I'm good. I'm fine. No, how are you sleeping? What kind of meals do you need? Um, can I take your kid off your hands for a couple hours so you guys can go and do whatever you gotta do? You know, really uh I was fortunate, uh fortunate or unfortunate, I don't know how you want to look at it, but um, I grew up at a time um where cops were actually were brothers and sisters to each other. You know, I saw that with my dad growing up. Um, New Year's Eve, the uh the cops might be working, but all the kids and the spouses were together having dinner and the cops would stop by and and grab something to eat on the fly. You know, everybody lived in town and things like that. And we were all at each other's birthday parties and things like that. Um, we were a family, we were a blue family. And somewhere along the line, I think we lost that. Um, I think a lot of it has to do with 12-hour shifts, a lot of it has to do with how busy our lives are and you know, our phones being tied to them all the time. Um, but I really hope and pray and uh one day that we get back to that where we genuinely do take care of each other. And we just we stopped you using the term brother and sister officer as just a colloquialism, actually get back to the root of it. You know, if I have two younger brothers, if they needed help, I'm stopping what I'm doing to make sure they get the help. You know, it might be an uncomfortable conversation, but I love them and I care about them, you know. That's what brotherhood and sisterhood is. So I think we have to get back to that, looking out for each other. Um, unfortunately, I I've seen a lot of that in my career where we we uh we I know cops are gonna have, you know, one one co one friend of mine have said, I know these cops are gonna have my back out on the street if it's a gun battle, but I'm worried about these same cops stabbing me when I'm in the station. You know, and I think we need to get back to that, back to that level of fraternity where we're we are taking care of each other, we're looking out for each other, we're calling each other out when we need to be called out on stuff, we're we're taking any care of each other's family when we're in a bad way. Um, I think a lot of those things kind of went by the wayside.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Uh that scene could be said for the first responders, military. Of course. Totally agree. Uh the the the caveat to that is just for those that aren't familiar, uh, we're talking about ethical human behavior. We're not talking about protecting one another like some people think. Correct when there is a bad actor or bad actress, right? Somebody that does the wrong thing, um, good cops don't want bad cops, just like every other and I think that message has been bastardized a lot, right?
SPEAKER_01So I think that's where a lot of cops kind of lost their way with this. Um taking care of each other isn't corruption, right? Um, it can be, you know, if you're if you're using the word in air quotes, taking care of each other. Um, but uh taking care of each other is hey, I know that your uh your wife's really sick. Like, what can I do to help? Um, hey, I know you had a death in the family. Let us do a meal train for you. Um, hey, if you consider talking to somebody about what you're going through, or hey, I have a friend who's going through something similar. Can I link you up with them? You know, I think that those are the things that we're kind of missing out on. Where those were the kind of things I saw as a young kid when I say the blue family, that that's what I saw. We rallied around each other, made sure we were there to support each other, or one cop's wife was babysitting the other cop's wife because they know they they had a you know date night or he was working a double or she was working a double, whatever the case is, um, it was that true sense of community. You know, I think that's something we need to get back.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I absolutely agree. So when when people who are not in that line of work or don't have family in that line of work and they hear what you just said, sometimes it's taken the wrong way.
SPEAKER_01Yep, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And what we'd like is to say when you hear back of the blue or you hear you know the the blue line, right? Or however we're gonna term it. Um it's meant to be what you exactly explained and not the persona of uh it is a not a negative connotation, it is not unethical, it is not against morals, um, it is something that um should should actually still be. And um, I I think it's gonna take a little while to get back to that again.
SPEAKER_01It will, yeah. And I see this kind of behavior illustrated often in my church. And I'm not talking about anything different than that. You know, the people who are in my church, they take care of each other. They know when somebody's sick, they step up to the plate, they help out, they offer donations or they offer meal traits or things like that. Like that's community, and that's really what we're what we had at one point. We had that, and we we don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think if nothing else, if we could get back to that and we could pay attention to the are you okay, but really meaning it, uh, then I think we could see some some changes happening.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And that's a big piece of this. Yeah. Having uh discussions like this and having uh people such as yourself not only licensed uh as uh associate uh medical sorry, mental health professional, but also uh to be able to go out there in the academic world and speak uh academically and practically. Uh yeah, and I think that's one thing. Yeah, but um it it is uh a great thing to have somebody that can show both.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then when the academics I love working with the most, the academics who want to see both. And there are a lot of them out there. Oh, definitely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So breaking that stigma down of you know it's it's us versus them, which it isn't, and then the idea of you don't need to politicize academia. Political freedom is a wonderful thing. Uh academic freedom is a wonderful thing. Um as is being able to say that we have a brother, sisterhood, fraternity, sorority, uh a community. Yes, and and we can unfortunately go down the bad stories, but what we want is more people like yourself who can go out there and spread the the positive word, the resources that are out there, and show that it is not um life-altering in the sense of losing your job. It is life-altering in the sense that it you manifest, you can make you more human.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yep, absolutely. Nothing touches my heart more, and it's sad, but it's it's beautiful to see when an officer is killed in line of duty, and and later on you see uh members of that department bringing the officers' children to a prom or bringing the officers' children to graduation and standing in. And you know, those are the things that are touching. I remember I still remember this. I was in kindergarten, so it tells you how impactful this memory was, and I still remember this. Uh, my dad was at the FBI National Academy in Quantico uh for the uh NA session, 161. And because he was away from my kindergarten graduation, one of his shipmates came to my graduation. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, and that's what I'm talking about. You know, that um rally around each other, supporting each other, having each other's backs in in that ethical, moral, upright way is what exactly I'm talking about here. And um it's there's something to be said for that. Because uh that was one of the biggest selling points for this job was that that knowing that if God forbid I took if God forbid I gave my life for the service of a stranger, because that's what we're doing, that somebody was going to take care of my family when I wasn't here anymore.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Uh I think on that note, we'll end with um uh how does uh we mentioned it before, uh linkedin.com. Uh we we mentioned uh William D. Walsh, law enforcement. Um you do some speaking engagements, you're an adjunct professor, um, you do some work with uh some mental health professionals. Um just kind of encapsulate a little bit the best way to get a hold of uh Bill if somebody wanted to get a hold of Bill Walsh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I mean LinkedIn is always a good one. Uh LinkedIn.com slash in slash William D Walsh Law Enforcement. Um, also, if you wanted to email me, I'll give you my easiest email because some of them are too long. Uh Walsh3477 at gmail.com is my email address. Um, I'm not too active on social media anymore. I was, but uh, you know, I have other priorities now, especially my my two little ones. So I'm on there once in a while, but not enough to for you to find me on there. So the email and the LinkedIn are probably the best ways to get a hold of me.
SPEAKER_00That is awesome. Well, thank you for the uh abundance of information. Um really appreciate the time you took out of your your busy schedule to to be here. Um and look forward um on a personal level, we have some projects we'll work on. Um but on the grand scheme of things, knowing that there are people uh such as Bill out there that are spreading the word and and trying to help.
SPEAKER_01Man, I appreciate you having me on, Jeff, and thanks for the message you're sharing with our communities out there and helping the profession grow.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you, Bill. And for everybody, this was uh Jeff. If you hang hung out the whole time, Jeff from Overwatch 5.9, uh special guest was Bill Walsh. Um, we had a very meaningful discussion today of uh everything from uh mental health resiliency to just uh overall uh helping one another out uh in the right way. So uh thanks for listening uh or watching and have a great rest of your week and be safe out there. Thank you.