Nerds On Tap

Revolutionizing Rent with Andrew Borovsky: Tech, Real Estate, and the Future

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What if you could transform the way we handle rent payments and real estate transactions forever? Join us on Nerds on Tech as we sit down with Andrew Borovsky, the mastermind behind Rent App and a veteran product designer with experience at Cash App, Apple, and Adobe. Andrew takes us on a fascinating journey through his distinguished career, sharing the motivations and challenges that have fueled his drive to create products that make a real difference. As we sip on some brews, Andrew opens up about his entrepreneurial journey and the tech insights he's gathered along the way.

In the heart of our discussion, we dissect Rent App, Andrew's latest venture poised to revolutionize the rental payment landscape. Combining his expertise in payment systems and real estate, Andrew unveils how Rent App differentiates itself with features like high transaction limits, autopay, and free credit building. We tackle the hurdles of promoting digital payment methods in a cash-heavy market and explore the strategic approach of offering core services for free while monetizing advanced features. Andrew's transparent and candid reflections provide a deep understanding of the challenges and opportunities in digitizing rent payments.

Looking beyond Rent App, we delve into the future of real estate technology, including the potential of blockchain to simplify and modernize transactions. Andrew shares his thoughts on building strong teams, the vital role of mentorship, and the transformative power of AI and automation in empowering new entrepreneurs. Wrapping up with a reflection on his business growth and leadership experiences, Andrew emphasizes the importance of transparency, communication, and a united team culture. Don't miss this episode packed with entrepreneurial wisdom, cutting-edge tech insights, and a shared passion for both innovation and great beer. Cheers to staying nerdy!

This Episode's Beer:
Samuel Adams White Ale

Sponsor of this episode:  Digital Boardwalk
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Tim Shoop:

Welcome to Nerds on Tech, where we get nerdy for an hour with business, entrepreneurial stories and tech, where tech is a central focus of all our conversations. Today, we invite Andrew Boroski into our studio. Andrew is a veteran product designer and serial entrepreneur with a track record of building impactful products. He has held executive leadership roles at Cash App, cadre and Square and co-founded 8020, which was acquired by Square. Before that, andrew was a principal designer at Apple and Adobe. He has launched Rent App and he is CEO and founder of Visible, found at visible. xyz, where he and his team are helping to build a financial network for real estate.

Tim Shoop:

Andrew, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Awesome. So today we're going to cover Andrew's entrepreneurial journey and get nerdy about what he's developed. We'll talk about the future of tech and then go into our rapid fire round. As always, nerds on Tap is brought to you by Digital Boardwalk that I founded in 2009, providing enterprise grade managed IT and cybersecurity services to businesses up to 500 seats across the United States. And if you are a prior listener, you know we always sample a flight of beer during the show, but since this one is remote, I'll be drinking a mug. Andrew, what do you? What do you have today? What are you drinking?

Andrew Borovski:

I got the best beer. This, uh, this will tell how to offer, so I actually never had a mistress. All right, estrella Cerveza. All right, Not the Spanish Estrella, it's the Mexican Estrella.

Tim Shoop:

Okay, cool and Edge. What did you pour in my mug? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Nerds on Tap. I'm your host, Tim Shue, and I couldn't be more excited to embark on this nerdy adventure with all of you. So grab your favorite brew, because things are about to get exciting 3, 2, 1, GO.

Edge:

Alright. So today we have Samuel Adams White Ale. It's a Belgian-inspired wheat beer brewed with a unique blend of 10 exotic spices, including orange peel, coriander and vanilla, giving it a complex yet smooth flavor. The beer features a crisp malty finish from a mix of pale barley wheat and Munich malt, and is coarse-filtered for for a white hazy appearance.

Tim Shoop:

Awesome. Yeah, I've already downed half of it while I was sitting in the waiting room as well, andrew, so are you ready? To kick this dirty adventure off, let's go All right. So let's start by talking. Before we get into current developments and what you've been working on, let's talk about your early career. Tell me what inspired you to become an entrepreneur.

Andrew Borovski:

I think I have, you know, maybe not super satisfying but kind of, I think, very common answer, which is just at some point, you know you're building things for other people and then eventually you realize that a you could do it better and be that there's some things out there you want to see out there in the world that, um, you know if, if they were to appear, you have to kind of make them. So, yeah, I want, I wanted to build stuff I wanted to see in the world.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of looking back into the 90s, when I first started. I remember getting frustrated by all the mandates and being kind of tied into a box and I remember someone telling me one day just go, start your own thing, Get out there, Be your own destiny right. So that's part of it. Talking about building things Visible and Rent app. Tell me about that. What inspired you to start that? Then let's talk about what sets it apart in the market. What makes it different?

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, happy to talk about this all day long. So my background, you know, last sort of, I'd say, 12 years or so, right is at the intersection of payments and real estate. So I spent, you know, a bunch of time at Square and then a bunch of time at Cadre, which is a Square, I think, is a payments company Most people know, for the Square credit card reader. We gave the opportunity to, you know, a lot of small businesses that were previously only able to accept cash. We were able to give them the ability to take credit cards, and so I got to learn all about payments, all about card networks, all about the banking system in the United States.

Andrew Borovski:

I went deeper down this kind of rabbit hole by joining Cadre, which is basically a tech-enabled real estate private equity firm, and a lot of people don't know that real estate is the biggest asset class in the world, bigger than the stock market and the bond market combined. And so real estate, you know, from an economic standpoint just fascinating, huge, massive asset class that's kind of mostly opaque, like super privately owned, you don't really get. You know everyone, everyone loves trading stocks but, like you, actually can't trade most of real estate. So it's really fundamental to the world economy, and that's actually why I wanted to kind of go deeper down that rabbit hole, understand what private equity means, what real estate private equity means. I think I did it in the best way possible, which is to do it in New York with guys that work for these giants like Blackstone and BlackRock and all the other B companies, and so basically, 12 years of that, and when you come out of I mean, I'm a technologist kind of by heart, I guess by trade, and so real estate's really interesting. It really hasn't changed in like 50 years. We have a lot of stuff. People look at Zillow and they go, oh wow, like real estate's very digital and like Zillow is really just a database right of available properties.

Andrew Borovski:

Fundamentally, though, like, if you think about real estate transactions think about buying, selling, borrowing against your home, investing in real estate you know these are really tedious transactions and no one likes doing these things right. That's usually, you know, slow, it's very expensive, it's very complicated, and so when I started the company two years ago again looking at payments and real estate that I love, the mandate of the company is like how do we make real estate transactions faster, cheaper and less complex? And within sort of this two-year period. You know we've built a bunch of technology but we have to pick when do we start. Which one of these transaction types can we make better?

Andrew Borovski:

First we looked at rent. That's another again rabbit hole I went down. I didn't know much about rent before I started. You look at real estate in the United States one of the best pieces of real estate in the world, effectively like a global safe haven, and a third of all real estate in the United States is for rent. It's massive right 43 million units and for a lot of Americans, actually a source of income. But when you look at this individual ownership of real estate and you look at how rent is collected and paid, it's staggering that cash is king. Most rent is still being collected in cash. Checks and money orders are actually close.

Andrew Borovski:

Second, and so digital payments that we've all become accustomed to. Everyone uses Cash, app and Venmo. They haven't really caught up to real estate and haven't really caught up to rent. Most people don't pay rent using digital payment methods. So we built RentApp to address this. We think that RentApp is the best way to pay and collect rent and you can think of it as like a hyper vertically integrated Zelle right, which is that you know it's very easy to send money and receive money. Just an email and phone number are required. It's completely free. But where it starts to set itself apart is it's very high limits, right, zell. A lot of times you can't pay rent in in one payment. You have those limits right. You have to pay like a little bit of your rent every uh, every month and so we have very high limits, um so, up to twenty thousand dollars per transactions.

Andrew Borovski:

Support for it seems basic, but it's not there in these apps. Autopay you can pay rent, set it and forget it right. Every first of the month we move money from you to your landlord directly. And then the one feature that we really love is free credit building. So if you pay rent using RentApp, it's like you're paying a mortgage. So we will, with your permission, report this to the credit bureaus all three and then you'll get credit for it. And you started to kind of build that you know sort of financial well-being you know early in your 20s, whereas you know most people don't have access to that until like in their early 30s, right when you start taking out loans. So, yeah, that in a nutshell. I know those a lot, but so we're zooming in here.

Tim Shoop:

So how do you? How are you getting it out there? Who is your target? Is it the renter or is it the landlord? Are you going through the landlords? Are you getting it out that way? What are you doing?

Andrew Borovski:

You know it's a, it's a little bit of both. We're talking to both and so you know, most of the time if you want to switch to digital payments in the real estate space, you have. You know what's called property management software and it tends to be this suite of tools that's like akin to Salesforce. You know, not a pleasant experience generally for most homeowners, and you know again, when you go back to most homes in the United States are owned by individuals and most of the landlords in the United States own just two or three properties. It's like, are you really going to deal with onboarding onto Salesforce, right, just to take payments for three properties? So people just kind of avoid it altogether.

Andrew Borovski:

And so in our case, what we've done is actually made it easy for the renter to loop in their landlord. So, because we support any bank in the US and any address in the US and no prior integration is required, a renter can actually by themselves go to the app store, download rent app, send the payment securely through the app to their landlord. Their landlord basically gets a notification via text or email and says, hey, andrew's trying to pay you rent for this address. Obviously they're expecting this, because that's your tenant and all they have to do is just type in the routing account number to accept that payment. They don't have to download anything, they don't have to set anything up.

Andrew Borovski:

So really like unparalleled level of low friction, right. Like landlord doesn't have to do anything, just accept, link a bank account once all future payments go to the same place. Any other tenants sends you money to the same email address or phone number just goes to your bank account. So very, very easy. And so we have this kind of marketing campaign that's really out there going off to renters for the first time. No property management software out there pitches renters so they're like hey, start building credit with RentApp and then they onboard the landlords. And what we find is 95% of all landlords that receive a RentApp payment are happy to do it. They accept it and onboard all their other tenants. It's a little bit of a kind of an upside down approach to distribution, but it works.

Tim Shoop:

So how did the? So that's interesting. I have rental properties. I have several rental properties, vacation properties and things like that and I use a property management company in cause. They're in other, they're in other.

Andrew Borovski:

well, they're local to the, to the area, so I see gotcha, I'm curious about what the services that they well, they're local to the area. Oh, I see Gotcha, I'm curious about what the service is Well they take 30%.

Tim Shoop:

And that's what I want to address here because you've got all these different apps that get you you know where you can self-manage or co-host these properties. And I'm not a you know, I'm not a rental guru or a you know a landlord guru. I just own homes that I like to visit, that I rent out, and you're our customer. Well, that's why I'm glad you're on the show. So I guess the reason I say this is because they do a lot for me. They'll run up to the property, check on things for me, they'll let me know if something's not working. They manage the housekeeping, they manage the landscaping, they manage all these things. But I get billed for all of them, of course, on my monthly sheet. I manage all my numbers just inside of a QuickBooks file you mentioned. So this brings up a couple questions how do the fees work with your product? And well, let's start there. Let's start with that question.

Tim Shoop:

I'm going to let you talk, and then I'll chime in.

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, I mean I'll qualify first of all that we don't go out there like field maintenance requests. We're very much a payments layer, so trying to be purposely super, super kind of fade into the background. We'll take care of the money movements. You can service the property whichever way you want, and so just a disclaimer there. But the product is completely free, and the reason for it is because when we started building this, we knew that we're competing with is completely free. And the reason for it is because when we started building this, we knew that we're competing with checks and cash, and a lot of times people don't switch to digital and again, I told you, 80% of the payments that individuals take in this space are not digital. It's because of fees on both sides, right, it's, one of you is paying the fees. So we knew we had to architect the product in such a way where we could give it away for free, and we do, and so the logical question is how do you make money? We think that the right approach here is to charge for additional features. So RentApp is virtually no limits across the board, totally free. You can manage as many properties as you want for both parties.

Andrew Borovski:

We introduced, actually, our first paid product today and it's a value-add product. It's actually funny. We're talking today. We just launched it, awesome and it's actually. Oh, did you guys hear that? Florida Just random thunderstorms, wow.

Tim Shoop:

Fun.

Andrew Borovski:

But yeah. So the product's called split pay and basically allows a tenant, uh, with no involvement from the landlord, to split their uh rent payment into two. So rather than you know, you get paid twice a month but rent is doing the first and people hate that balloon payment. It's super stressful. You got to kind of budget around it A lot of the times. Maybe you don't pick up a shift and then you can't pay on time and then you incur a late fee. So what we do is, for small fees 20 bucks you can pay rent in two payments half your rent on the first, half your rent on the 15th. Your landlord gets paid on time the full sum right off the bat. They don't know any better, and that's a paid feature. And so just by running a split pay as an option with a percentage of our customers you know, tenants in this case using it, it keeps the entire service free and that's how we architected it from the ground up.

Tim Shoop:

Wow, that's, that's amazing. So you guys are going to launch a win-win? Yeah, absolutely so. You'll have new products rolling out and you'll you'll have, you know, upgrades and things that people can buy within the platform, right, beautiful?

Andrew Borovski:

Yep, so my previous product, just to really quickly. You know it's, it's it's a common thing, like the thing I worked on rent app. Before rent app, I worked on cash app, which is, you know, well-known product. Yeah, almost 60 million customers in the U S use it and you know cash up is free. You know it provides fantastic value for free. And then what they do is, if you're trading Bitcoin, if you're trading stocks, that's where you start to see some transaction fees come in. And you know, I think that's the right model. Like provide, you know, massive utility, baseline utility for free, get people to use the product and then, if they want more advanced features, you charge for them and there's no gotchas, there's no weird stuff. You're not selling anyone's data. Um, you know there's no, there's no weird stuff. Like, you're the product, you know.

Tim Shoop:

Awesome, yeah, very similar to you. Know any, any sort of like we're. We're built on the backbone of managed it at digital boardwalk and we roll out new products. Shoot. This year alone, we've rolled out three or four new products and and everything's built on a recurring basis. So it's predictable for the customer, predictable for us. But when we're rolling out these new products, a there has to be a need for it. So I guess my question is when you you know you told me before renters are your initial client base and you're reaching out to renters, are you expanding on that?

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, yeah. What we see is you know a really nice trend, which is essentially you know, we run an Instagram ad about building credit or being able to split your rent in two, and the renter hears about us. This way, they download the app. It's relatively cheap to run. You know, instagram ads compared to like trying to. You know, when you're selling SaaS software, it's very expensive to run ads that are targeting SaaS customers, whereas 80% of 25-year-olds in the US rent. So basically, if somebody is engaging with Instagram, they probably are renting. So very easy to kind of target folks and we're basically saying look, there's some great features are completely free. So the renter downloads the app, they send the payment to the landlord. The landlord is you know. Again, I stand by the product. It's a very elegant user experience. It's completely free, with no gotchas, so the landlord likes it. I mean, landlords want to go to digital payments. A renter makes one payment a month. Most landlords have to collect five of them, right? So they're only too happy to discover us, and so what happens is the renter introduces us to the landlord and then the landlord introduces us to the rest of the renters. So there's some really nice kind of network effects there.

Andrew Borovski:

But we're definitely not stopping there. We're doing targeted outreach to owners and to that end we, you know, we basically have our support team, support slash sales team. We call and email people that we know are kind of small owners. You know, folks such as yourself, you know that just have a couple of properties and it's a bit of a hassle for you or maybe you're paying a lot of fees and we do like we just call them and I actually I get on a call with people myself, you know, and I do demos because we demo super well. I'll probably. You know it takes like 30 seconds to send a rent payment, so I just do a demo to all these landlords and one person at a time. You know we're we're bringing people on on board. I love this space. I love when you get to deal not with you know managers at large companies, right, that don't really care one way or another. You're like they get harassed with sales calls all day long and like there's all it's a financial transaction, and yeah, everyone's, everyone's, just not very invested, right.

Tim Shoop:

Whereas I get to, I get to call and talk to people that own this real estate. For them it's like their life's work. It's a very rewarding space to be in. I love this small business space. Yeah, because you just meet. I guess you know, taking all that tech and putting it together, that's the space you've lived in for quite a while, right yeah, yeah, especially the long tail.

Andrew Borovski:

You know, the long tail of individual owners or individual small business owners. It's just a very, you know, um, it's where technology shines right like owners. It's just a very, you know, it's where technology shines right Like it's easy to build. I mean, everything's hard, but I think it's relatively easy to build a piece of software and go try and sell it to somebody that has whatever, let's say, 10,000 employees that are going to be forced to use it.

Andrew Borovski:

Right, like enterprise SaaS sales is kind of just, you go, you identify the elephants and you go after them and, as a result, what you have is it's very crowded space. Everyone's out there, you know, basically it's a race to the bottom on fees, whereas, you know, I mean, the amazing thing about America, right, is that there's so much small business ownership and so much real estate ownership, asset ownership by these individuals, right, this is like kind of like the backbone of the country and yet no one's really playing in the space, because people don't like it when you have to acquire customers one at a time, and I love it, and I think this is where technology really shines, because you can put something out there, you know, again, through Instagram, through YouTube, and you actually access, like millions of these customers that are so happy you built something for them, you know.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah. So before I get into my other questioning, I want to ask you a question. I was on the site, I was reading a little bit about it and the way it's. So you're using blockchaining or you're using technology to stack on top of the titling, for which I'm switching gears here. I'm going from rent app to visible. Tell me, tell me, tell me about it, tell me about that product, before we actually kind of gear back into the early stages of development for both of these companies.

Andrew Borovski:

Sure, yeah, I mean, um, let's put a little Chinese wall between RentApp and Visible, because they're really, you know, they're two different missions, I would say. And so you know, rentapp is very much built on the traditional fintech rails, which is effectively the ACH network. Right, this is how banks talk to each other and so we move money in a very kind of boring, old but highly reliable way, right, ach. But, as I mentioned, when we started the company two years ago, we also had our sights set on, okay, like, what's the big problem we're trying to solve? Like, think of rent app as being almost like a three-year vision, right, but then it fits into being kind of a beachhead for like more of a 10-year vision.

Andrew Borovski:

And the 10-year vision is just to make real estate ownership again fast, low cost and very easy, right, which it isn't today. Right, to buy a house? Yeah, to buy a house still takes you 30 days. It's not clear why, to buy a house, you're still paying. I not clear why, to buy a house, you're still paying. I mean, you're gonna end up paying like two to three percent in transaction fees to buy a home, which, by the way, is massive, right on, like, let's say, five hundred thousand dollars, right like that's. That's incredible and you know, you know what I'm talking about. You go to buy a house. You're like, okay, I bought a house, it's 500k. And then you, you know, you, you show up on that last day it closing and you're signing all these forms. There's like eight people in the room that you've never met, doc fees.

Tim Shoop:

I remember the first house I bought Fees, fees, fees. The first house I bought a long time ago. I remember I was a young guy and I was going what is this? And I was so frustrated when I left that room.

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, totally. And it's try and ask people like two days before closing, what are my fees going to be? And they're like, oh, we'll figure it out. That day it's like a big, super surprise. You know, like, how much money did you set aside for the, for the completely random number we're going to throw at you? And uh, and it is. I mean, it's again, it goes back. It's a, it's a consequence way we record transactions, which is, you know, just to get geeky.

Andrew Borovski:

For a second right, if you do it through your county there's 3,600 counties in the US right, your records are not kept at municipal level or even state level or federal level. They're kept at county level. You know Miami-Dade includes Miami and Dade counties, right? So we'd actually like the counties bigger than the city of Miami. In New York there are multiple counties because New York is so big. Like you know, the division lines are super weird, right? Some counties are fully digital, others are fully analog. They have different methods for how you actually submit the data to them. They have different timelines. By the way, you think digital is fast. New York is mostly digital. The delay in recording transactions in New York last I checked was somewhere around 40 days. And then you have rural counties rural counties that are completely analog, where they'll record a transaction same day. So it's complete chaos, right.

Andrew Borovski:

And the heart of being able to transact in real estate is to be able to verify that the person you're buying a house from really owns it and, when you buy it, that now that ownership record has been updated and now you own it, and because the system is so crazy and I you know, it's really the best comparison is like a mainframe computer from like the 50s, maybe the 40s, right, we're talking about like we're reading paper cards here. Um, right, that's effectively what you're interfacing with. Uh, all problems kind of stem from it, because when you're talking about the number of days it takes to close, it's largely due to the number of days it takes to update those records. And, by the way, the biggest fee you're going to pay is going to be title insurance. Why is there title insurance? Title insurance exists because there's a gap between the last reading we took of the records and our ability to update them, and in those couple of days it could be minutes, and in those couple of days it could be minutes, right, could be 40 days, like in New York. Things can happen, where new information comes up and all of a sudden, the title is potential. Now, they rarely happen, which is why it's such a good business, but when you're being sold title insurance, it's to prevent bad things from happening.

Andrew Borovski:

In the time it takes for this mainframe computer to make a change to a database, right? I think now that I've explained it this way, you can kind of understand. Right, like it is insane, right? This is the number one real estate market on planet earth and this is how it works, right? So the reason I'm saying all this is that there is a technology change. Right? We need to update the technology that we use to record ownership. Right? It's like a data. I mean, I think most of your listeners, like, are familiar with databases right.

Tim Shoop:

It needs to cross county and state lines.

Andrew Borovski:

It just needs to be a central database that you can read and write from in real time. Yeah, and when we started building Visible, one of the things that we were curious about is can the blockchain actually be that database of the future? And look, I'm a technical guy, I'm not here to hit you crypto coins. I'm talking about blockchain purely as a database technology. There's some really nice advantages of it it's interoperable and it is programmable, right? So, hypothetically speaking, right, you could if and this you know the federal, this is we're talking 10 years out If the federal government created a centralized database or a decentralized database of real estate records of all ownership in the United States, it would make everything so much faster, so much cheaper and so much less complex.

Andrew Borovski:

Because if you update records in real time, you don't need title insurance, you don't need title searches. I mean, that's at least $100, maybe $1,000 in some cases and here's what's really interesting you can actually open up the U S real estate markets to global capital flows. So, right now, if you're a uh, you know somebody from Europe and you're trying to buy real estate, we're just invest in real estate in the United States. There's like a again a Chinese wall, no pun intended, uh, where you really can't access this data and you need lawyers to do it, et cetera. And, theoretically speaking, if there was and I'm not here to pitch you on decentralized or centralized if there was any kind of database that was acceptable, that you can write APIs on top of that you could do interesting things with, we could really unlock a lot of liquidity in this amazing space that we're in. And again, at the end of the day, what it means is you're empowering the little guy.

Andrew Borovski:

The people that have the most leverage, the people that are making all the money in real estate, are the people with the most capital, because what they do is they abstract away the counties and they use large sums of capital to buy buildings instantly at a really good price and they sort out the title issues later. And I'm talking about all the private, the Brookfields, the Blackstones and the Blackrocks of the world. The reason they're so successful in real estate is they abstract away the complexity of the US real estate market, whereas guys like you and me, we can't do it. We don't have that luxury. We have to buy title insurance because you know something goes wrong with that one transaction. You know this is our life savings. So, anyways, Visible is sort of like we're building some tech there. That's quite interesting. It's sort of like a technical proof of concept at this stage, but it's meant to address some of these issues.

Andrew Borovski:

That's amazing, wow, sorry it's a bit of a rant, but this is such a rattle.

Tim Shoop:

I love it and I love the thunder in the background. We're both in Florida, ladies and gentlemen.

Andrew Borovski:

Hopefully it adds a little bit of drama to what I'm saying.

Tim Shoop:

It did right when you said your punchline, it was like rah.

Edge:

The whole screen turns pink. There you go, yeah it does actually your background, you got a little bit of uh, wow.

Tim Shoop:

So you know everything's moving in that direction. I don't know, I used to be in the military and everything's backwards. I mean all the systems there are just so old school coming out back into the civilian world being able to develop things and watching things grow. And I've watched the evolution shoot. I watched the evolution of the PC. I'm that old, you know. I remember getting my first PC in the early eighties when no one had one.

Andrew Borovski:

And which which branch uh, did you serve it?

Tim Shoop:

I was in the Navy.

Andrew Borovski:

Oh, amazing, yeah, I, I'm asking, just my, my daughter is a 17 and she's looking to, uh, uh, she's applying to all the military schools she's going to. We're actually going to go to Annapolis to go check it out. Do a tour, probably later later, later next month.

Tim Shoop:

So I was in the Navy. I spent time serving on an Air Force base in the Navy and I thought I thought I was going to go to Denver too. I thought I was at a resort, so she might want to look Air. Force, but I go Navy.

Andrew Borovski:

We're doing all three.

Tim Shoop:

Yeah, I was a. I was a tech in the Navy. So let's now let's kind of let's kind of pull back a little bit. Let's talk about your. I love stories about the early days. I've got tons of them, but this is about you today. I know when I created my first businesses, over the years I learned from all the mistakes I made right, and then I would make sure I never replicated those mistakes. Tell me about lessons you've learned from previous ventures, both successes and failures, and how they shaped your approach to building these new applications. That's a good question.

Andrew Borovski:

Fantastic question, no, of course. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, probably a day doesn't go by that I don't think about this. Uh, look, I mean, I think, I think you know all of us. We enter the business world, right? There's no, unfortunately, you can't learn business in school, right, it's just something that you have to try. Whoa, it's something you have to try. I was sitting on a patio. I thought I'd be safe, but I should have been probably inside. That wouldn't be out there, but yeah, so look, I think our first business venture is always maybe skewed by our biases, right From wherever it is we come from, right.

Andrew Borovski:

So my background is in. I went to school for product design. I was a designer by trade. I knew how to create, you know, beautiful experiences, delightful experiences. I spent, you know, the first 10 years of my career.

Andrew Borovski:

I was first at Adobe and then I was at Apple, and, you know, in a very narrow role, like my goal was just to build the user experience, and what happens in those situations is you believe that that's all that matters. The thing you're working on is the most important thing. Right, and very quickly. I learned, right, that there are some great companies out there, for example, just in the design world. There's companies out there with amazing user experiences that failed as businesses and, by the way, we see this all the time and we have companies that have terrible user experiences that then succeed. And so it's just one piece of the puzzle right off the bat.

Andrew Borovski:

If you go into business, you have to understand all of the verticals that come together to create a beautiful product. A beautiful product is user experience, yes, but it's also the technology, it's also the sales team, it's the support team, it's the whole shebang. By the way, tony Fidel, the guy that famously invented the iPod, apple, acquired his company, worked on the original iPhone, built the Nest thermostat product, sold it to Google. He has a book called Build. I'm not sure if you guys have come across it. It came out three years ago and a lot of what I'm saying honestly I'm just kind of quoting him because he just articulates it so, so well. Having built products where the whole widget is just all these different verticals, I think that was something that is just definitely a lesson. If you're a designer, you've got to get into engineering and sales and support. If you are an engineer, you've got to get in the heads of design, sales and support. You have to understand all that and, yeah, you can't win just by being siloed in one of those verticals.

Tim Shoop:

A lot of people, I think, when they go into business, they go in because they have a passion for building something right, but they don't know. Either they don't know how to run a business or they don't see the importance of sales or marketing. Keeping your pipeline stacked full is one of the most important things you can do in a business, because if you have attrition and you don't have a pipeline, you don't have any money coming in. And then marketing. So this question isn't on my list, but I want to ask you because marketing is one of my favorite hats to wear. Of all the hats I've worn over the years running businesses, marketing is the most fun for me. What is your favorite hat? Marketing hat, no. What's your favorite hat in business?

Andrew Borovski:

Oh, sorry, across the entire spectrum Hat Sorry, hat.

Andrew Borovski:

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, first of all, you know, yeah, sales and marketing is unbelievably important. It's my least favorite hat as, like a technologist, and so I have to force myself every morning to get into that. And really I have to force myself to love marketing, because it doesn't matter what you build if you can't market it. So I just want to say that. But I think, outside of design, I really love support.

Andrew Borovski:

I mentioned customer support because it's just and if you're on the front lines with your customer, at the end of the day, right, your marketing, your engineering, your design, everything you do is actually informed by the customer, and the person closest to the customer is your support team. And I actually I mean, I'm not going to name names, but there are some unbelievable leaders in technology today, like top 10 technology companies, top 10 startups. Right now in Silicon Valley, um, are led by people who got their start in the support team and I'm talking like found an ad on Craigslist for a low level support job for some you know for, like an Uber, and they, by working in support, right answering phones for one year at a company, they had all the insights that they needed to then shoot up within the ladder of that company. Because they were so informed by what the customer needs, what the pain points are, they became the best engineers, the best product managers and eventually a lot of these folks.

Andrew Borovski:

I'm talking about entering kind of a C-suite right out of support. I actually think that's kind of a life hack for a lot of these folks. I'm talking about entering kind of a C-suite right out of support. I actually think that's kind of a life hack for a lot of folks Like don't think that customer support is like oh it's a shitty job that you know. If nothing else is out there, I'll join support the backdoor to the C-suite at the best companies in the world is support.

Tim Shoop:

There is an art to customer support, an art to it. I mean, that's hands down an art to it. So one of my least favorite hats growing businesses over the years was always HR now, but that was only because I wasn't good at it. Now you know, we, we, uh, we send people to leadership classes, we grow leaders inside of our company and I noticed I went on your website you have a team around you. First I want to know well, I know when we started it was tough to maintain a strong company culture in our company, especially in those early years. Tell me how. So first of all, tell me how you met the folks. Briefly, tell me how you met the folks, were they friends, colleagues, and how you balance growth with maintaining a strong culture within the company.

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, I'll be honest, this is one of the best podcasts I've ever been on because you answer like super. You ask super fun questions that I love to talk about.

Tim Shoop:

Good, we're not even into the fun questions yet those are coming.

Andrew Borovski:

Okay, cool, cool, I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, so you know, I like to think I love people, I invest a lot in I love people, I invest a lot in my relationships with people. I'm very direct and vulnerable and honest with people, and the reason for that is because, I mean, I've always had this strategy and that strategy has always paid off, which is that you, you know, you invest in relationships and you have no idea the dividends that this is going to, you know, pay you, you know, decades later and I found this to be incredibly true, which is to say, when I work at somebody out of, with somebody at a company, you know, my favorite thing to say is like we're going to work together, as though we're going to work together at the next three companies. Right, I think that's really important. A lot of people are kind of like, oh, this is my work group at this company and I'm going to burn all those bridges. I'm going to move on to a new company and I'm going to. I knew it 28 when I said, hey, let's build a company together. We built a company, grew it, sold it, then went our separate ways, did some other stuff for a bit and then, when I wanted to build a new company, I'm like, guys, let's do this again. And then my other co-founders are again folks that I work with at Cadre, and when I wanted to build this company, I'm like, hey, you two are like the best people I've ever worked with in in your verticals, like you know, come on board. So you know, you're always quote unquote building a team Right, um and and yeah, in fact, from an age perspective, it's interesting.

Andrew Borovski:

I'm in my forties. I love being in my forties because I have such a bench right Like I can, if I'm starting anything, I just now have, you know, 25 years worth of incredible people that I could just stack in every you know which way, and they're happy to work with me because I've maintained those relationships and, uh, and that's at the center of it. So I always encourage everyone to just like, invest in your relationships. You know the good and the bad, you know, don't, don't burn bridges and think of, uh, think of the people that you meet and the people that you work with as people that you might potentially work 20, 30, 40 years from now, right? So that's the team right now. Yeah, it's great because I end up, basically the team I have right now is the best team I've ever worked with, as it should be. No surprises. It helps on the culture side because you know culture is I mean first of all, it's a loaded word these days, you know there's always people talking about.

Tim Shoop:

You're not supposed to have culture.

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, it was like at the height of the corporate, you know, woke madness that we went through. You know, during COVID that became like a toxic word. You know, I'm less radical, I guess, in that sense, but, um, you know, I think what it. What people mean by culture is just like when you're working with random folks, right, and you don't know who you're going to hire. You hire new people, young people. Culture is just a common language that you can have. That makes it easier to onboard people and have people feel comfortable in your team very quickly. So it's actually, it's entirely a good thing. It's just, it's like a, it's just a fabric of a company, right. That makes it easy to onboard new people.

Andrew Borovski:

When you're working with people, you know, for a long time, one of the benefits you have is you don't have to invest a lot in the culture because it's kind of a given. So I am very fortunate where, you know, we finish each other's sentences. We have a very strong executive team, and so culture for us right now is really, you know, so we're all in our 40s and our engineering team, which is both of the company, is all in their 20s, and so now we're like kind of looking back at what it was like to be in our twenties, things that we thought were great and like made us work better together, and we're trying to infuse that into this kind of new generation. And you know it's, it's lightweight, it's like, you know it's about being to us, it's like being direct. Again, I before honest, direct, vulnerable, not going right to be, you know going from mentee to mentor, making that transition over the years?

Andrew Borovski:

it's not complicated, you know, it doesn't have to be contrived. It's like most people just want to talk to somebody who will listen, you know, and who will give them honest feedback, like like you know, and who will give them honest feedback, like, like you know, who has a sense of humor, you know. Uh, that that's all people kind of want. You don't need to like invent, I think, beer pong tournaments. I mean, by the way, I love beer pong tournaments.

Tim Shoop:

I'm just saying you don't have to you know, that's that's anti-productive in my, in my experience Um yeah, it's funny, you know, one word I didn't hear you say now this is a word I kind of live by in my leadership stance is transparency. I think a lot of my colleagues they like the fact that I'm 100% transparent. I want everybody in the company to have a voice, and I'm sure you do too. I think that's important because there's power in numbers. We don't know it all, so hire people that are smarter than you and in your case, you're hiring these younger folks that are on the edge of the latest trends. You guys are mentoring them and instilling leadership qualities in them, you know, to help you, help them, help you build this empire. And and that's you know, transparency. Someone taught me that once they said be transparent, make sure everybody has a voice, but make sure they know what you're thinking. And that's worked for me. I've got folks that have been with me going on 20 years now and uh, you know, been been working alongside me.

Andrew Borovski:

So you know I I knew that more, and that's what I meant by. That's what I meant by honesty. You know there should be no reason for you to dress your, your words up Right, I mean people. You know, if there's, if there's things you're struggling with and that goes back ties into vulnerability, there's things you're struggling with and that goes back into vulnerability. There's things you're struggling with on a personal level as a CEO, like no reason not to share that. You know, people appreciate that, people can relate to that. Everyone struggles with something A more technical. It's interesting Well, it's kind of me throwing it back to you a little bit.

Andrew Borovski:

I do find as you get bigger, right, so transparency and directness sort of is easier to manage, let's put it this way when you're sort of less than 50 people, when you get to that sort of thousand person mark, when you're a couple of hundred people, frankly, you need to probably. There's probably a few caveats there. Square, you know I worked for Jack Dorsey and Jack Dorsey built square on this culture of transparency or radical transparency, and you did see, you know it was awesome when we were 200 people. When square became like 4000 people, there was such thing as too much transparency.

Tim Shoop:

So yeah, yeah, I guess you know. I guess it depends on where you at and where you're at in the scale of the business too.

Andrew Borovski:

Totally yeah, so I just want to throw that in there.

Tim Shoop:

It's sort of you know, yeah, it sounds like we might need to do a future Part 2 show and focus on scaling the importance of private equity recapitalizations and all those things and kind of get into that?

Edge:

I'd love to. Yeah, lots of thoughts there, man, that gets me excited. I love talking about that stuff.

Tim Shoop:

So we're, we're, uh, we're working on a uh, a big scale project right now. Um, I'm in the middle of it. So when we do our next show, I'll be coming out of that, so we can we can talk more about it. Um, so we're gonna we got about 15 more minutes, we're going to get into the second segment and then we're going to go into our rapid fire round, which goes pretty quick. So let's let's talk about the predictions for the future of tech and its impact on entrepreneurship, specifically through the use of you know, things like we were talking about blockchain technology. You cut out the middleman, you speed up efficiencies, processes, you lower costs. Ai the big buzzword on the street right now. We use a lot of AI around here where we're automating things that we couldn't automate before. So we'll be shifting roles for many workers. I don't think it will eliminate Well, it is going to eliminate some roles, but a lot of roles will shift. But what types of new businesses will we be seeing on the on the horizon, andrew?

Andrew Borovski:

what types of businesses do you think such a such a fun question? Yeah, these techs are going to spawn.

Tim Shoop:

I mean, I'm already seeing it, especially in the cybersecurity world, because we're leveraging a lot of automation with, you know, surface attacks and things like that scripting and being able to automate using scripting technology and things like that. Tell me what you see, especially from your experience. What do you think you're going to see coming up on the horizon?

Tim Shoop:

I mean what I see with you is tying your apps into things like, you know, zillow and all these other things that are out there, so we can create a cohesive way of buying and managing real estate and renting, like we talked about before.

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah'll, maybe, I'll maybe talk more like like zoom out, uh, quite a bit, because I think it's worth clarifying, like I think I think hopefully this will be helpful to your listeners in terms of how to think about ai specifically. Okay, so, um, I think, fundamentally it's just about acceleration, it's about being able to do more faster, right, and it's not that new in some ways, because I'll give you an example, like just from my life when we built our first product. So I started a company in 2008, and we were building a mobile phone and we wanted to build our own mobile operating system in 2008. What did it mean? We wanted to build our own mobile operating system in 2008. What did it mean it meant in 2008,?

Andrew Borovski:

Remember all the things that did not exist. Aws was not like really a thing. We had, you know, four Dell servers in our office and we had to host our own applications, right Like, in the office space. There was no app store. So you have to, we have to beg and plead with Verizon to distribute our app, you know, through some Verizon channel, right? Or you have to I have to have business development conversations with operators. You know God, when's the last time you thought of going to, you know, verizon to ask them for permission to launch a service. Right, it's crazy, but that's not even that long ago. I mean, we're talking about, you know, 15 years ago, effectively, that this was the case, right? And so what I'm kind of alluding to is the fact that if you had an idea, you know, 15 years ago, there were much fewer off-the-shelf parts that you could use in order to make it a reality, right, and so you had to kind of invest, right, dollars and people into building this foundation for whatever product and service you wanted to launch.

Andrew Borovski:

Fast forward to where we are today an army of one, like one person, can build, host and distribute an application on the app store. That is unfathomable, amazing 15 years ago, right, it was, you know. So there's no difference between that and when we talk about AI accelerating things. It's the same basic thing, right, it's going to be much easier for you to use off-the-shelf parts. I mean, go back to what's ChatGPT great at you can ask it to create an investor presentation, then you can ask it to create all of your outreach and marketing, and then you can actually ask it to create pieces of code that you can copy and paste and basically build the app entirely using ChatGPT and various other services that are available to you.

Andrew Borovski:

So my point is we're just again now before you. Okay, you could host the app in AWS, but you still have to code it. Now you don't have to code it right. So being able to go from zero to one has never been easier, and I think that is the beautiful thing right about what's happening here Cue thunder to thunder. Yeah, um, it has never been possible before for somebody with very little background or no background in marketing, in you know, fundraising and engineering and design to be, but with you know, ahead of their shoulders, to actually make their product and reality and that's going to accelerate and I think that's the really insane thing. You know, I have this anecdote which just summarizes perfectly. Do you guys remember that AI-generated photo of the Pope walking around in a Montclair jacket? It's like a puffy white jacket.

Edge:

Do you remember that, Ed?

Andrew Borovski:

No.

Edge:

I don't remember that.

Andrew Borovski:

Pope Francis walking down a. So it was just when the AI image generation tools came, like a year ago, which seems like forever ago. And so the guy became it went this viral photo because it just looked really cool. It was like the poke, but it's like this puffy down jacket and, and it looked like something you know you'd see Kanye West produce, and it looked like something you know you'd see Kanye West produce. And the guy that created that image and created the prompt for that image was and you know, somebody can fact check me on this but I believe was a plumber from Australia. Right, and that, to me, is just such an iconic moment because it tells you this guy, who was plumbing in Australia, right, like, was in the wrong place at the wrong job you know to be producing, you know, puppy jackets and pokes created this iconic fashion statement, created this jacket that looked incredibly cool, right, that was like out there, people literally thought it was an actual thing you could buy right From, like, one of the big fashion houses.

Andrew Borovski:

That, to me, summarizes the opportunity just perfectly right, you're no longer, and increasingly, you're no longer going to have to stay in your lane because, oh, I don't have this or that ability Right All of a sudden. The democratization of like creation tools, right. But it also means you have no excuse, right, like you get. Oh, you know, I have this great idea and the only reason it's not out there is I can't find a guy who code the app. It's like no, no, you'll be able to do the app You'll be able to put in the app store. There'll be no excuse, if you have a good idea by yourself, not to make it a reality.

Tim Shoop:

Well, it's funny because I remember the evolution, you know, when high speed internet, you know, started to become a thing and more and more people were adopting it. It changed everything, you know. It defeated that divide between us and them and everybody, you know. So we could, we could cross over, we could get more access to information more quickly. You know, in my world it allowed us to go remote, you know, and that was huge for us as far as efficiency, yesterday I gave a company wide meeting through teams, which we'll talk about that another day. You're anti teams. We promote teams and we were using, you know, I use Copilot, which, again, you were talking about an open AI. You know, chat GPT, which keeps historical artifacts there. So what happens if that's a whole other show? What happens if that gets hacked, where Copilot is eradicating the information? As soon as you're done, the information as soon as you're done, I was able to tap into all my data within my ecosystem and build a slideshow around what I was trying to present. Just by telling it, it literally pulled within the. So let's keep moving.

Tim Shoop:

Because we're very short on time, I'm going to go ahead and get into the last question before we get into our rapid fire round. And just so you know, rapid fire is just simple, simple one-liner questions and answers. So what is your advice? So for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to break into the tech industry? Now, we just talked about it a little bit. The tools are out there. You just got to find the right tools for the right project.

Tim Shoop:

My philosophy find a solution using tech, figure out your audience, who is the audience, and build a strong team to make it happen. Once you begin, don't give up, never give up. I think an entrepreneur has to have a thick skin. Give up. I think an entrepreneur has to have a thick skin. I think some people you know, I think everyone, has it in them, but I think, depending on their situations you know, wherever they are at in life or whatever, they may not be able to reach the finish line where they want to be. Tell me about your, your advice to aspiring entrepreneurs that might be listening to this show, looking to break into the tech industry Go.

Andrew Borovski:

I mean, honestly, I'll just build on what you said and just add that for the precursor to all of those things you need. Don't be afraid. You know, I think people tend to I mean this is kind of broadly a life thing, right? People tend to I mean this is kind of broadly a life thing, right? Like we tend to think of these oh, you know, I'm going to cross roads, I have to make this binary decision do this or do that? The truth of the matter is and I'm sure this is, I'm sure, like I'm just guessing, I'm sure you're if you look back at your life, this will ring true, like it sort of doesn't, doesn't matter what decision you make make, as long as you make a decision and you move forward.

Tim Shoop:

Good answer.

Andrew Borovski:

You know, all change is kind of good change, so you know it's not going to be one of those things. Oh, I decided to start this company and it didn't work out and I died Like that's not going to happen. Things kind of evolve, things will pivot, you'll find yourself in maybe different situations, but they'll all be better.

Tim Shoop:

But don't build something that you don't want to consider running for a while, right.

Edge:

I mean yeah.

Andrew Borovski:

No, of course, Without a doubt, right, um, I think it's. I think it's I'm making an assumption here that people are passionate but they're afraid and I think, look, if you been a very inspiring fantastic.

Edge:

I've enjoyed our conversation so far and so let's get into.

Tim Shoop:

I've got five simple rapid fire questions before we wrap up. Are you ready? I am? Here we go Favorite tech gadget, favorite tech gadget. Or it doesn't have to be a gadget, it could be a tool.

Andrew Borovski:

Okay, I'm going to sound really like Silicon Valley here, but I love my eight-sleep mattress.

Tim Shoop:

All right. Yeah, all right Most valuable business book.

Andrew Borovski:

Valuable business book. You know I don't read business books because I tend to find them. I have this kind of a obnoxious take on it, but I tend to find them. It's sort of like reading biographies, like just because you read, like you know Churchill's biography, it doesn't make you become Churchill Right, it's at best like an artifact. So I find that they're a poor predictor of like future performance. But I will say, you know, of the books in business that I've read, I've really enjoyed Patrick Lencioni's. You know the Advantage.

Andrew Borovski:

So, on my shelf I love.

Edge:

I saw him speak in down, where you are Well in.

Tim Shoop:

Orlando, close, closer to where you are. Well, in orlando, close closer to where you are, but saw him speak down there, great, great public yeah, I mean he's funny.

Andrew Borovski:

No, he's funny, I have. No, I have no, like I think 100 of what he preaches is totally right and I've lived it and I, I, yeah for me my life-changing book e-myth by michael ger.

Tim Shoop:

Have you ever heard of that book?

Andrew Borovski:

No, I'm writing it down right now.

Tim Shoop:

It teaches you how to treat any business like a franchise, even though you're not planning on franchising it. So you can systemize every single process, Because it's all about processes and SOPs so you can scale right.

Andrew Borovski:

Oh, that's a very interesting approach, that's cool, I'm telling you.

Tim Shoop:

I'll bet you you read that book and you're going to email me going. Thank you, tim.

Andrew Borovski:

This that book is on my Kindle right now.

Tim Shoop:

All right, good, listen to it. Yeah, um. Next question Uh oh, this is a good one. I love this question because I asked myself this question from time to time. What's one piece of advice you'd give to your younger self? Buy real estate. That's a good one. Mine would have been start being smart and get off your ass.

Andrew Borovski:

I mean, yeah, I guess that's the precursor. Hard to buy real estate if you don't get off your ass.

Tim Shoop:

If you could have lunch with any entrepreneur, who would it be and why?

Andrew Borovski:

Presumably living.

Tim Shoop:

Could be living or dead. Mine would be probably Steve Jobs. I'm a big Apple fan as well.

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, I mean, you know, what would I talk to him about? Um, uh, yeah, you gotta, you gotta good. Good, I'm trying to think right now. No, you know, I'll reach back into history, I think, I think I, I think I'll just name something like, let's just say, henry Ford. I'll be ambitious here and I will just tie it to what I mentioned before. I mean, talk about building stuff without off-the-shelf parts. Right, you can build a car company like there's well, well, well kind of documented knowledge on how to do that. I mean, this guy, you know, invented the modern factory, like where?

Andrew Borovski:

the assembly line would be I mean, how did you how?

Tim Shoop:

did you know, I know. I know Think about that for a minute and that again, that goes down to process and consistent deliverables consistent yeah, it's very very operational. Yeah, how do we produce the same exact product every single time?

Andrew Borovski:

yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd be fascinating automation because right now, all of us you and I when we do something today, most of the time we're copying someone else. Who the hell did he copy? Yeah?

Tim Shoop:

exactly so and uh, what's the next big thing in tech?

Andrew Borovski:

last question next big thing in tech, uh that's a that's a hard one.

Andrew Borovski:

So hey, I don't want to put you on the spot well, no, no, I think I think the one thing we don't know and I mean, look, it's a yeah, I'll give you somewhat, maybe it's a cliche answer, because look, I, I think we are the vast majority of people are underestimating grossly, even with all the hype, are underestimating what AI truly means, because the piece that's going to be really interesting is we're still not at the point where AI is making AI, and that's inevitable. So I think what's going to be really interesting is this new crop of products and services that are not conceived by humans. That's that. That that's going to be. I mean, cause I just can't fathom what that will be.

Tim Shoop:

It's a little scary at the same time. Right At the same time.

Andrew Borovski:

it's it's going to happen. What's crazy about it is we all know it's going to happen. It's not a, it's going to happen. What's crazy about it is we all know it's going to happen. It's not science fiction, it's going to happen.

Tim Shoop:

So AI is going to create robotics and AI oh, we've seen that movie.

Andrew Borovski:

Yeah, I love that movie. By the way, super pressing you can watch the first Terminator movie right now. You're like they got everything right.

Tim Shoop:

Most tech movies and this is a whole other show and actually we did another show on this but if you look back at tech movies, all the way back 60s, 70s, 80s. They get a lot of it, right? I mean, all you got to do is watch the Jetsons.

Andrew Borovski:

Well, but I'm actually it's funny because we're at this golden age of defense tech right now, or at least the resurgence of defense tech in the United States, a space that I absolutely love. So you look at a company like Anduril, right, that's that's you know building these completely insane kind of future autonomous weapons, and I mean they literally look like something out of terminator and, yeah, it's crazy. I mean it's crazy that that all this stuff is actually happening. I I wonder where we're gonna end up.

Tim Shoop:

We have we have the privilege of having. I don't know if you've ever heard of uh, ihmc um, their robotics company. They're actually located here in pensacola, florida, and if you ever, if you ever come up this way, Andrew, I'll get I'll get you a tour of the facility, and my son actually just went through the robotics. Oh, they're building some frigging amazing, amazing robotics. So I want to thank you for being on the show. Um, it's, it's been my pleasure to have you on today and I'm I'm glad we got got the glitches worked out ahead of time. Let's take the last minute uh, tell our audience uh about, uh, just to remind them about your current projects and any, any promos you have going on within those products or anything you want to want to promote right now. Go.

Edge:

And also where to find you at, too. Oh, and where to find you too. Oh, and where to find you, yeah uh, find me physically?

Andrew Borovski:

um, no, no, so, so, yeah, so, so, uh, the product name is rent app very easy. Um, the url is very easy. It's rentapp. Um, and, uh, very easy to get started there and kind of learn more about it. Um, look, if you're renting, check it out. We help you build credit completely free. It's super convenient to use. You can use the website or you can use Android app or iOS app, and we think your landlord is going to love it as well. And if you're a landlord, if you're collecting rent I mean Airbnbs, you're renting out a unit downstairs. We have a little small portfolio down the street. Like, check us out. It's a free, super easy, very convenient way to collect rent. I think again, I think everyone's going to love it, whoever tries it.

Andrew Borovski:

And yeah, look, I'm based in Miami with my co-founder and then the rest of the team is based in New York. So hit me up. I'm Andrew@ rentapp. Very easy, I'd love to. I always love to talk to people, kind of learn what problems we can potentially solve for them, and I love to meet people in person for a coffee. So if you're in Miami and you want to talk tech, andrew at rentapp, try our product. Thanks for listening. You want to talk Andrew@ rentapp, try our product. Thanks for listening.

Tim Shoop:

Awesome. So again, thanks, Andrew. I want to thank you for coming on the show. Stay tuned, folks. Our next guest was a rising star in Hollywood the same time I was out there before she became an acting coach for new rising stars. It's going to be a good one. Thanks again for joining us and remember, stay nerdy cheers, my fellow nerds and beer lovers. Stay tuned for more nerds on tap. Oh, and one more thing help us spread the nerdy love and the love for grape brews by sharing this podcast with your friends, colleagues and fellow beer enthusiasts. Let's build a community that embraces curiosity, innovation and the enjoyment of a cold one.

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Tim Shoop

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