Lean In To Learn Ep. 9: How Relational Skills Can Help Your Business with guest Clif Donaldson

Join Jessica Soodeen as she discusses How Relational Skills Can Help Your Business on Lean In To Learn with guest Clif Donaldson.

In partnership with Workplace Education Manitoba and thank our funder the Government of Canada Skills for Success Program. 

Joignez-vous à Jessica Soodeen qui discute comment les compétences relationnelles ont aidé notre entreprise avec son invité Clif Donaldson.

On tiens à reconnaître Éducation en milieu de travail Manitoba et à remercier notre bailleur de fonds, le programme Compétences pour réussir du gouvernement du Canada.

Transcript

Welcome And Series Focus

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Lean In to Learn, your Skills for Success podcast. I'm Jessica Soudine, spokesperson for Workplace Connections, Master Certified Relational Skills Practitioner, and advocate of skills for success at work. Lean in to Learn is a series focused on insightful approaches and forward-thinking topics related to relational skills, which many of us refer to as soft skills. I'd like to acknowledge Workplace Education Manitoba and thank our funder, the Government of Canada's Skills for Success program. I, and carefully curated subject matter experts, will introduce you to an array of tools, resources, and personal journeys that will educate and empower to solve people-related issues at work, as well as build individual skills for success. So settle in and open up your hearts and minds as we lean in to learn. His expertise spans payroll, health and safety, labor relations, employee engagement, and strategic leadership, supporting workplaces that are both compliant and people focused. Welcome, Cliff, to lean in to learn.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Hi, Jessica. It's great to be here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Excellent. Great. So that's that's a heck of a bio. It looks like you've really had some diverse experience as well, hey, over the years.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, I've seen really how human resources has moved from multiple HR departments, like big scales, because you had to update everything from addresses to phone numbers to banking information. Now it's all self-service and it's done digitally, and anyone can do it day or night. So seeing the scaling of different pieces worked in large organizations and small organizations too.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Sure. And I bet some of that automization also lends itself to free up time for more of that people, people work, which is what we're going to be talking today. So thanks for the segment there, transition. Genius. So I did a little bit of research about you when I found out that you were going to be a guest. Yeah. So, but I'm sure there's some things that I wouldn't have found. So tell me some little tidbits about Cliff.

Personal Side: Knitting And Dog Sports

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Well, there's two things that aren't super public. One is I really like to knit. I primarily make tuques and scarves because socks and sweaters and those other things are complicated or difficult, but it's fun to do at home while watching TV. But the other really fun part is my two dogs. I have two miniature Australian shepherds. And so I am busy on the road with them doing a variety of different dog sports. So it could be sniffing out rats, could be dock diving, could be agility, could be herding the trials or workshops. So it's a whole lot of fun being out with the dogs, seeing them learn, and also myself learning from them what really for them to, you know, progress in the dog sports and get, of course, glorious ribbons and all sorts of fun titles as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Oh my gosh, that's fabulous. Super fun. I love watching the dog competitions. I'll admit this. Yes, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Well, we can, you know, yes, the dog competitions are great, but you call my banker, and you know, my banker would tell you that I probably shouldn't be spending as much money on the dogs as I do.

Civility, Names, And Human Touch

SPEAKER_00 4:10

That's funny. Well, we all prioritize in which we like. So it's exactly so I'm I'm gonna dive right in here now. So, you know, you do have quite the career in HR with various organizations, as you mentioned, large and small. And I imagine, you know, even with the difference in cultures for each, had their own flavors. So, how would you say that you've leveraged relational skills, otherwise known as soft skills? And let's say in the context of, say, civility, citizenship, to navigate that successfully.

Generations At Work And Belonging

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Well, the relational skills just in general, it's really about the reminders that we all need to take in an employment situation, right? So all of the skills are very essential for everyone, regardless if you are frontline or if you're in the leadership role. When it really comes down to the civility and citizenship pieces, we're really looking at, you know, from my lens, it's how do I want to be treated? So then it's, I don't want to be treated like a number. So why am I going to treat someone else like a number? So then it's really easy to get wrapped up in those one-liners on Teams or email or text message. But then there's also like, do you want that in response? So if you don't want to be treated like a number or a one-liner, are you going to also treat the other person like that one-liner or number? Or are you going to pick up the phone and say, hi, how are you? And take it offline. So, you know, with that, it's understanding the basics of that person, understanding like the pronunciation of a name or the spelling of a name. So my name is spelt with one F. It's very unique. There's not many people. I'm named after my grandfather. It's a very long story. He was Clifford. My mom named me as Cliff with one F. But the point is, a lot of people type two Fs. And so in any sort of relationship, it's like, okay, you can't spell my name right. So do you value me as a person in this organization or as a vendor relationship or whatever that relationship is? So it's really about like, I want to be treated with the correct name spelling. So are you taking the time to, you know, check in? It's really about, you know, companies have multiple generations now in our workplaces. So, you know, we've got the baby boomers to, and I don't even know what they're called anymore, the younger generation, which I'm, you know, scared to say my age and admit how old I am here. But, you know, even that, I'm like, oh my goodness, we have another generation coming in. And what does that look like? And what did they pride themselves in on? So, really, as an employer or just in any relationship, again, it's how does Billy or Susie or you know, Ethan or whoever want to be treated in the workplace? So it's it's always about, you know, that conversation and making sure there's like that human side to it.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah, I think that's really great because we all really, we all really do want to just belong and want to be treated with respect. And that's where that citizenship, I don't know if everyone really thinks about citizenship when it comes to their to their workplaces. And once you really change that and you know get a relational skills practitioner in, it can really change the whole culture of the company.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Well, and to that point, like we spend, you know, baseline 40, you know, probably up to 50 hours a week at our workplace. So it doesn't matter if it's a Monday to Friday job or, you know, you work some weekends or you know, have a mishmash of a schedule. The reality though is you spend the most time at work. So how do you make sure that you have a great time? And everyone else in the room has a great time as well. You know, not everyone loves work every day because we all get told to do certain things that we don't like or you know, whatnot. The reality though is I myself, even just as a, you know, an individual contributor at the organization, I can change that mindset as well. I can, you know, affect the positive change. I can be like, hi, Bill, how are you today? How are your children? I can ask those questions. And then Bill can be like, oh, that was really nice of Cliff. And then he says something nice to someone else. And you get this, you know, flow of you know, nice conversation that actually starts and is more of a regular thing. It doesn't have to be the water cooler. Oh, do you know what the boss said today? No, we don't care.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, yeah. The water cooler is.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

It's always a boss. Right. Yeah. So it's about the relationship.

Everyday Acts That Shape Culture

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Well, it sounds like you're the kind of person that's really that go-to person when fe people are feeling unheard or not really feeling that. So some of the things that you know the workplace education Manitoba WEM brings up with these practitioners is communications and systems thinkings. So when you've seen those two skills work, how is that show up when people are coming to you to be heard?

Communication And Systems Thinking

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Well, they're two very critical items in a workplace or any sort of you know situation. So the couple things really with the communication is it's knowing when to speak and knowing when to listen, especially if that person's feeling unheard, right? So, you know, let them let them word vomit, let them just tell you everything because they've got something they haven't been heard by, you know, maybe it's their one-up manager, maybe it's a peer, maybe it's an internal stakeholder, maybe it's an external vendor, whatever it is. Let them word vomit. And then it's about the clear conversation and the clear next steps. So you've come to me with this problem. Let's, you know, do we want to work on a solution? Like, what are you looking for? It's understanding what that person wants. Do they just want to come in and be like, oh my God, you'll never believe? And then it's word vomit is like, okay, I think I'm all right. I just needed to just say it. Because some people will just be like, okay, thanks. Bye. Other people are like, no, this is a bigger problem. We need to investigate something. We need to, and not even investigate, like, I need to like sit with a light over the you know table and you know, ask you really hard questions. It's, you know, do we need to look at a process? Do we need to look at this? Is this not working? What is it? And then understanding those clear next steps for that employee and also the company. Human resources, there's been a real evolution, and a lot of my role is really about risk management. So it's like, okay, you're coming to me with a dilemma or a problem. Where are we going with it? What are we mutually deciding on? And then from there, you can look at the thinking skills. So it's really then analyzing that problem. You can then, you know, how big is this problem? Is it a big process piece? Do you really have to peel back the onion? Is it something we've been doing for five, 10, 20 years, or is it something we've been doing for a month? And then, like, who is involved, what those stakeholders are. And then you can go through that kind of roadmap. And maybe that person that brought the problem forward is really the champion on it because they're passionate about it. Maybe it's not in their scope, but we all have skill sets that are kind of hidden. I'm, you know, I'm of that, you know, early 80s childhood, but I really love technology. I can see a lot of great things with technology and automation, but I also I'm also that old school thought process. I actually still carry a day planner, which is really weird.

unknown 11:57

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

So yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got the fancy here with the binder and the rings and the insertable sheets. Oh, very cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

The engineering me is on fire right now.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Yeah, I've had it for probably, you know, 20 years. And so it's really about, you know, the thinking skills is, you know, and then what is the execution, what is the maintenance, and you know, really going through those pieces. But again, you know, with people coming to me all the time, you know, how can I teach them to fish as well as part of it? Like I had an employee come into my office earlier today, actually, and said, you know, oh my goodness, I'm I'm on benefits, I'm worried, I don't know how it works. Technically, me and human resources, I can't know a diagnosis, I can't know certain things. I'm like, you need to call our benefits carrier. You need to, but I need to understand exclusions. I'm like, right, but I can't know certain things as an employer. It's nice that you want to share, but I'm not gonna have the conversation. You have to go to the benefit carrier. They are the ones that can know these conversations and have these conversations. So it's really also about setting boundaries as well for myself because there are legal items in our world and more and more as we move down into the 21st century of privacy. And so, really, in that thought process, it was like, nope, can't have the conversation. So it's it was kind of a different take on it, but also it was the communication piece. So it was being transparent, yes, telling them why I can't have the conversation instead of just saying, like, nope, thanks, bye. Here's why.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah. And I find, you know, adults really need to know, as opposed to when you're working, you know, maybe with younger students or younger kids, that why is super important. And I think that's um a really high level skill when you're setting boundaries. And I think that that setting boundaries a big is a big part of the communication skills that that are really important for people to to have too.

Boundaries, Privacy, And HR Risk

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Do you know the worst, a kind of age group, shall we call them, that actually wants to tell you too much? The baby boomers. They will tell you everything about whatever they're needing to do. So they've got an appointment. Great, you've got an appointment. Have a nice day. It was approved, good. And they're like, it's four, and then they start talking. I'm like, nope, no, please stop talking. I can't know this. It's a doctor, it's a specialist, it's a something. Uh no, no, no, no, no. I I actually don't need to know. But yeah, the older generation, because it was always drilled into them to be so transparent in the workplace. And like quite frankly, workplaces need to know something, but they don't need to know everything. So whereas we see more caution coming out of that, you know, kind of more my group, the millennials, and that, you know, tail end of the 70s crew, where you know, it's like we don't really trust AI, you know, we're only scraping the surface of using AI, but because we don't really want to tell it everything. So we're like, nope, we're not telling you anything that you don't need to know.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah. Yeah, it's very curious. I'm I'm a Gen Xer, so before prior to the millennials, but um, but it's really interesting seeing the different types of communication styles and seeing the different needs of everyone as well, and understanding how they're coming from, you know. And you know, it's interesting that you say about five generations because that really leads into what I'd like to talk to you about next, which is turnover, intention, burnout. Yeah, like these are big, big topics right now in our workforce. And these, these, whether it's you know, amass retirement, whether it's that we don't stay at jobs for 25 years, or maybe you were like me and hopped around different different contract roles. And I make sure to put on my LinkedIn that they were contract roles so that people don't think that I just get kept on getting fired or something. But so people experiencing layoffs, or even people that are experiencing, you know, turn up turnover around themselves and trying to retain people. What would you say are some of the top soft skills that could help those individual contributors either experiencing burnoff, watching layoffs happen, or maybe going through some turnover?

Oversharing, Trust, And Changing Norms

Turnover, Burnout, And Adaptability

Continuous Learning And Pivoting

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Well, it's really about adaptability. So, with you know, since about 2022, we've seen a lot of layoffs. Big tech has laid off a lot. We're seeing Verizon in the US, they're laying off, you know, tens of thousands of people. So it's really being able to be adaptable. It's, you know, like I've had the luck that I've been in human resources for 23 years and I've done well in my career. Not everyone does, you know, this long of a tenure in you know, a very specific field function necessarily, but it's really about being that adaptable piece. So, okay, so if I'm laid off or I'm seeing my coworkers laid off, or the business is, you know, looking bleak or struggling, it's like, okay, where else can I pivot? Can I help in the business somewhere else? I mentioned it earlier where you know some of our folks have a lot of really great talent that you don't know until you start tapping into it. So is there something else I can help with? Is there other pieces, projects I can step in on, day to day items? I really like to do this. Again, so then it's the conversation with your one-up in the organization, or it's a conversation at home as to like, how am I adapting? How am I evolving with the current, you know, 2025 and the 21st century? Tech is way more prevalent than ever. AI is everywhere, you know, people are using it for basic letter writing to creating you know programs. There's also change in continuous learning. So we're the world is shifting every day. You know, I open my mobile device and Facebook has a new layout. The the like is a little thumb now, not you know, saying like or you know, whatnot with the icon. Things are changing. So as things change in your business, then it's also about how am I changing with the business? What do I need to do to change with the business? And then do I need to learn something? Like there's a there's several different platforms available that where you can take free courses, where you can go online, and even you can pay a nominal fee, and then you can have access to the entire library. So, you know, what how do you challenge yourself, you know, taking off those blinders, doing something scary that actually might reap the rewards. You're seeing your friend get laid off because they're not willing to take on extra duties or responsibilities, or they're not, you know, or there's something happened earlier in the year or in the last six months with them at that organization. But now you're like, okay, I can see the writing on the wall, I can see what the company is doing. They may or may not know where the company's at in their, you know, business. They might not have had a state of the union address recently, but most employees know how a company is functioning and the and the health. So now it's about how to me, how does me as an individual contributor help the business continue striving forward so that there isn't a more you know difficult conversation going forward? So that's the learning piece. And and there's so much free stuff online. It's just a matter of you know, some Google searches, and you can probably find something quite quickly and easily. But it's also about cultural competence. So, you know, what is driving that person so internally? You, you know, everyone has to look inside. I love my dogs. I love to knit. They're both quite expensive, you know, little hobbies on the side. So, you know, okay, I really like a paycheck every two weeks. So how do I make sure that I A, still get a paycheck every two weeks, but also I still enjoy the work that I'm doing every day. So what does that look like? And how is that conversation with my manager or with, you know, whoever that you're reporting to or your peers, how do you, you know, it's very much marketing, but it's how do you spin that conversation? You've in that role. Maybe you've been there for a month, maybe you've been there for 10 years, maybe you've been somewhere in the middle. Do you like it? Do you hate it? Do you want to exit as fast as you can? And then you need to create that plan, really. So when you're looking at that turnover and retention and that burnout, there's lots coming at us, you know, inflation, interest rate increases. You know, you're you're looking for a new car and you're like, oh my God, three years ago, you know, it was 20 grand cheaper. Like, what happened? Um, you know, I face that this summer. I'm like, okay, you know, I need to get out of this lease. And I was looking at a a brand and I'm like, okay, my my actual vehicle is literally like 15-ish grand more three years later. And I'm like, how is this possible? So yeah. So it's it's really about that roadmap. And it's really about, okay, if I can navigate the car personally at home and figure that piece out, then the my job that pays for that car every two weeks, I'm, you know, I'm at that office more than I'm actually at home with my children or family or you know, whoever that might be. So then then it's the intrinsic value, right? So it's that cultural competence and making sure that I like it at the end of the day. And, you know, to your comment, Jessica, earlier, you know, I really like projects, quite frankly. So, you know, I started, you know, just under a year ago at this new organization, Odra Road Sweepers here in Winnipeg. Who would have guessed we make uh street sweepers here in Winnipeg? But the the neat thing and the real push for me was this, they didn't have human resources before. So they have some and they have a few things. So now they've got Canada and the US workforce. So now it's about, okay, Cliff, you know, you've worked with Canadian and American employee teams. So how do we make sure that the business is safe and secure in the HR function? How do we get them some tools so they're not wasting a lot of time? How do we make sure that we're, you know, closing the gap on those HR function items? So, you know, is the work hard? Am I doing a lot of policy stuff? For sure. It's not always the funnest though, but it gives you that satisfaction because unfortunately, I like to move around and do more project stuff.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

And that's and that's you know, that also comes from that intrinsic motivation. It really comes from what fills your cup. And I think you it sounds like you really support people well to really help them make that plan because that's when when people thrive and that culture also thrives. What a great, what a great way to to really frame something for somebody to help them feel supported in their journey through an organization. That's really wicked. Well, this has been absolutely brilliant. I could talk with you for a long time. I even even listening to you, I have so many more questions. However, that's our time for now. Okay, and Cliff, thank you so much. This was really brilliant. Great insights. And I think there are some actionable steps through here as well, especially on that communication side thing. Um, so thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Perfect. Thanks, Jessica.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yeah, you're welcome. All right, and for all those listening, I am Jessica Soudine. Thank you for taking the time to lean in to learn.