For the Love of Health

The Patient Perspective on Clinical Trials with Dr. Gregory Masters and Robert Robinson

• ChristianaCare • Season 2 • Episode 21

Share episode

According to the National Institute of Health, there are more than 500,000 clinical trials happening right now around the world. ChristianaCare has been nationally recognized for contributions to this work, as clinicians and scientists at the Helen F. Graham Cancer Center and Research Institute collaborate to turn laboratory discoveries into real world therapies.

On this week's episode of For The Love of Health, we're joined by Dr. Greg Masters, ChristianaCare’s National Cancer Institute Community Oncology Research Program (NCORP) Principal Investigator. Dr. Masters explains how these vital studies work and why they matter - from testing new medications to exploring innovative treatment combinations, each trial represents hope for patients facing difficult diagnoses.

We're also joined by Robert Robinson, a prostate cancer survivor who himself participated in a clinical trial at ChristianaCare. He shares how his clinical trial not only saved his life, but sparked his mission of talking about men's health. 

For its excellence in clinical trials, the Delaware/ChristianaCare NCORP in 2024 earned the prestigious Platinum Award for Exceptional Achievement from the NCI/NCORP. 

Gregory A. Masters, M.D., has been a ChristianaCare lung cancer specialist since 2003.  In addition to his investigative work with NCORP, Dr. Masters serves as an associate professor at Thomas Jefferson University Medical School in Philadelphia, and is a highly published expert and a reviewer for many of the leading oncology clinical publications.

Links

Thanks for listening and subscribing! Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, X and LinkedIn.

Speaker 1:

Because clinical trials are one way that we can all work toward improving the care of cancer patients.

Speaker 2:

You're listening to For the Love of Health, a podcast about delivering care and creating health, brought to you by Christiana Care. Hello everyone, I'm Jason Tokarski.

Speaker 3:

And I'm Megan McGuhrman. Welcome to another episode of For the Love of Health brought to you by ChristianaCare.

Speaker 2:

According to the National Institute of Health, there are more than 500,000 clinical trials happening right now. Christianacare is part of that work, as clinicians and scientists at the Helen F Graham Cancer Center and Research Institute collaborate to turn laboratory discoveries into real-world therapies.

Speaker 3:

ChristianaCare has been nationally recognized for this work, and today we're going to dive deeper into clinical trials from both a patient and a clinician perspective. So joining us today is Dr Greg Masters, christianacare's National Cancer Institute Community Oncology Research Program Principal Investigator and cancer survivor Robert Robinson. Greg and Robert, thank you both so much for your time today.

Speaker 4:

My pleasure.

Speaker 3:

Greg, how do you explain clinical trials to someone who's unfamiliar with the concept?

Speaker 1:

The clinical trials process is complicated and so it takes extra time and it takes some extra effort.

Speaker 1:

But it's also a way that people can work together toward a common cause, toward getting better treatments for cancer and working with different communities.

Speaker 1:

So when we talk to patients about participating in a clinical trial, it's important that they first have a good understanding of their disease process and we try to explain to them exactly what they'll go through in the normal course of events.

Speaker 1:

If they decide not to participate in a clinical trial, then we can talk a little bit more about how the clinical trial fits in and, if it's appropriate for a patient, so there may be different testing that's necessary to go on a clinical trial. There's certainly a period of understanding the process and understanding how the treatments or the interventions may differ, and we try and make sure that we do that in a sort of slow, stepwise fashion so that they understand what they're getting into, because they're already dealing with some pretty heavy decisions that they have to make in terms of understanding their cancer and their cancer therapy. And then, if we introduce additional variables like participating in a trial, it's important that they understand what they should do as a basic course of action and then what their options are for different kinds of treatments that may be still in the experimental stages.

Speaker 3:

And what kind of clinical trials are you currently working on at ChristianaCare?

Speaker 1:

Christiana has a special grant through the National Cancer Institute, the NCI, that's called the NCORE program and that stands for the National Cancer Institute Community Oncology Research Program, and it's a specific grant to do research in the community with patients who are interested in participating, and there are a number of sites throughout the country that participate in this program so that we can have a large pool of patients, a large pool of clinicians that get together to think of the best clinical trials available and offer them to our patients.

Speaker 1:

We also participate in research studies that are funded through pharmaceutical companies, so we have studies that look at a lot of different aspects in terms of cancer care. We have research studies that look at screening for cancer. We have research studies that look at interventions to try and prevent cancer from beginning in the first place, or treatments that try and help cancer not come back if it's been treated definitively, like with an operation. And then some patients are going through treatments where they're actually receiving the actual therapy for a cancer that may not be something that's treated for cure with a surgery or with a definitive course of radiation treatment, and so we have clinical trials that look at new ways to explore the treatments that are available now and totally new treatments that haven't been tested before and maybe added into other therapies or maybe tried instead of a standard therapy if we're not satisfied with the success of that.

Speaker 2:

Robert, you're a patient here at Christiana Care. You received treatment for your cancer diagnosis and you were a participant in a clinical trial for your cancer. Give us a little bit about what went into that, how you found out about it and how you came to be part of that trial.

Speaker 4:

In 2017, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. My primary care physician, who was a part of the Christiana Care Network, sent me to a urologist here at Christiana Care. My prostate was removed. A couple visits later, the numbers were elevating again. Visits later, the numbers were being elevated, were elevating again and at that stage is when they said that it was pretty aggressive and they wanted wanted me to come in for radiation.

Speaker 4:

I guess because of, again, the aggressive nature of the cancer that you know, they felt I was a good candidate for the trial. I had no thought to that. I was like why me? It was the question, and so they asked me about it and told me what it was, what it would do and basically what my clinical trial was. I had less doctor visits or radiation appointments, but it was at a higher dose and I went through it. I sat and, you know, sulked for a while and then I came to the to the conclusion that this would be good, because what was said to me was this may not help me, but it will help others, and I have. I have two sons and you know if this helps them and, you know, helps everyone else and you know it's good. I don't know what happened. I got discharged that I wanted to make sure everyone heard and you know people doing the best that they could to you know, for their health.

Speaker 2:

Tell us a little bit about the process involved here, especially in terms of the information that's being collected and security and privacy. Where did that fall for you? Was that ever a consideration for your decision to be part of this process?

Speaker 4:

Well, no, it really wasn't a consideration in the beginning because you know she again, when it was, I was approached with the clinical trial. I was going through so much so they did sort of walk me through step-by-step of what this would be. And it wasn't information I had to ask, it was information that was volunteered, that you would. You know you'd be going through X amount of radiation treatments. You know we'd want your consent Anything that we do. You'd be informed step-by-step.

Speaker 1:

And we have a very defined process for patients who are interested in being part of a clinical trial, with a consent form that actually describes all of the potential risks, if you will. Those risks are sometimes physical, in terms of going through a treatment that's new or has some unexpected or potentially unexpected side effects, but also the risks of releasing information as part of a clinical trial, and so there's a very careful process to make sure that, first of all, patients understand how that data will be collected and keeping all that data very private. So all the records are kept not by the patient's name and social security number, but by special identification through the clinical trial. So no one knows the identity of the patient and the data that's being collected, whether it's blood work or questions about their medical history or even questions about how their cancer is progressing.

Speaker 2:

Let's assume that somebody is listening to this who has been diagnosed with cancer and has been offered the opportunity to be part of a research trial, but is feeling a little hesitant about it. What advice, what commentary would you give to them in the course of that decision-making process?

Speaker 1:

What we try and do is to help them understand the different courses that are possible if they choose to be part of a clinical trial, and how that's going to affect their life. It's a very tough decision because, like Robert explained, you're already trying to decide on important differences in standard therapy, and then the clinical trial may be another extra decision that people have to make, and so we try and, you know, spend some time. First, the doctor usually presents the treatment options in the clinical trial to a patient, and then we have expertly trained nurses that are part of our clinical research program that will explain in greater detail exactly what is entailed in going into a clinical trial. There may be additional blood tests, there may be additional scans that people have to do, they may have to meet with new physicians that are part of the treatment team and they have to, you know, have an opportunity to go through all of those different aspects of, you know, participating in the trial and becoming eligible to participate in the clinical trial before the treatment actually begins.

Speaker 4:

I would tell them, and I think it's very important to help someone else, because that's basically what the trial is going to do. You're already in your situation, so a clinical trial will then help someone else, because it takes all of us to make this thing work, you know, whatever it is. So if you can come and you can help someone, why not? And that's what these trials will do, I believe.

Speaker 3:

And Robert, how do you continue to do that?

Speaker 4:

would do, I believe. And, robert, how do you continue to do that? I have a podcast. It's called the Lions Den and in that podcast I bring men together and we just talk about, you know, whatever it is. It's usually around mental and physical health. So that's how I try to get the word out. I tell them my story, as open and as raw as it is, and have them tell theirs, and we try to reach as many people as possible.

Speaker 2:

So you are in essence helping people twofold at this point, from the sounds of it, because you helped by agreeing to do the clinical trial. But have you from the podcast heard that you've been able to help get people more treatment or involved in their?

Speaker 4:

process? Yeah, actually I have. After you know several of my podcasts. I had people that heard the podcast reach out to me and told me that they were getting going to have their doctor's visits or have gone and, based on you know the information that they received from me from hearing me speak about my journey.

Speaker 3:

Greg, what is the typical outcome for a clinical trial? Clearly, roberts is one of the best outcomes there can be. He's here with us today, but do they all turn out this positive?

Speaker 1:

Well, we hope they will, but it is reality and unfortunately in cancer care we're not perfect yet.

Speaker 1:

So when a clinical trial is designed, there's a recognition that as people go through the process of the clinical trial, some people may have a great outcome.

Speaker 1:

But if we get our way through the trial, there's a mechanism to look at the results and to see if people are benefiting more than the harm of any intervention that we're giving.

Speaker 1:

Because with cancer therapy there can be side effects and we have to measure that against. You know what are the benefits of the treatment. So if we get partway through a clinical trial and it looks like some patients are not having the benefits that we want, or too many patients are having side effects, or there's not a benefit from introducing a new treatment, then it may be time to take a step back and say, okay, this isn't the right study to continue, at least for this particular group of patients, and then we can look at other treatment options, which sometimes could be another clinical trial, or it may be falling back on a standard treatment that's already been through clinical trial testing and has been shown to have some benefit. But in cancer therapy we're constantly trying to move forward, not only for our individual patients, but for the community and for different communities, because different treatments affect different populations differently.

Speaker 3:

Where is the science for clinical trials going? That we can get more Roberts on this podcast in the future.

Speaker 1:

We're constantly looking at the clinical trials. Clinical trials come from a lot of different sources, like the National Cancer Institute. A lot of clinical trials of new medications come from pharmaceutical companies. Some clinical trials come from our own ideas about how we might combine things that are available already. We look at all of those different possibilities to try and come up with a program of a series of clinical trials that will serve our patients, so that we not only have to think about people like Robert with prostate cancer, but people with other cancers as diverse as leukemia and breast cancer and colon cancer and lung cancer and many others.

Speaker 1:

And each patient who's confronted with a cancer like this has decisions to make. And then we try and sort of ask ourselves well, what are the decisions that are going to most impact their quality of life and their survival in dealing with this cancer? And if there's a new medication that may work better than one that we're using now, we want to have access to a clinical trial that will offer our patients the ability to receive those new treatments. Some people don't want to try something brand new, but others do. Sometimes it's a combination of adding additional therapies, like adding radiation to chemotherapy, where we may be taking a risk that we're going to have more side effects with the hope that we have a better chance of curing the cancer and keeping it in control longer.

Speaker 1:

And I work with a whole team of nurses that help look at all the clinical trials that are available and see which ones will serve our patients the best.

Speaker 1:

And then we have to go through a process to get those trials available and opened at our institution, because we have to make sure that they're appropriate, that the patients consider them trials that they would want to participate in, that they're asking a good question that's going to help move the field forward and help our patients individually, and that we have adequate funding to perform the clinical trials, because it's a lot of extra work with the extra testing that may be done and the administrative work to make sure that we're collecting all the data as people participate in the studies and that we can recognize if something is going wrong, if there's new side effects that we don't want to expose our patients to.

Speaker 1:

We even have a patient advocacy group called OPACT, which helps patients who've been through clinical trials get involved in recruiting other patients and educating our community about the clinical trials process, and that's one way that we can work together toward this common cause, because clinical trials are one way that we can all work toward improving the care of cancer patients. But it really does take the community participating together for the process.

Speaker 3:

Greg and Robert. Thank you both so much for sharing your story and spending time with us today. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks Megan, and thanks Jason for letting us be part of this and, of course, thanks Robert again for being part of the clinical trial program and telling your story.

Speaker 4:

My pleasure If I could help one. I've done my job, you have.

Speaker 2:

Check out the show notes for this episode for more information on clinical trials happening at Christiana Care.

Speaker 3:

And you can keep up with For the Love of Health on social media. Just search at Christiana Care on your favorite platform. We'll be back in two weeks with another great conversation. Until then, thanks for joining us for the love of health.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Megan McGuriman

Co-host