603Podcast with Dan Egan
603podcast explores the people, places and things that create the culture of New Hampshire. From the Great North Woods to the peaks and valleys of White Mountains, in and around the Lakes, on and off the Seacoast, throughout the Merrimack the Monadnock Regions, to the Dartmouth-Lake Sunapee area. This podcast educates, motivates and discovers the stories that shape the "Granite State" and its impact on the country and the world.
Hosted by extreme sports pioneer Dan Egan, you’ll hear inspiring in-depth stories, from our featured guests that are the heartbeat of the Granite State through conversationally discussions with New Hampshire’s most notable, need to know folks and characters make New Hampshire truly special place.
603Podcast with Dan Egan
New Hampshire Presidential Primaries & Politics with Neil Lavesque (New Hampshire Institute of Politics at Saint Anselm College)
Neil Lavesque: New Hampshire Presidential Primary
Region: South Central / Merrimack region
Neil Lavesque is the Executive Director of the New Hampshire Institute of Politics
Neil Lavesque is a lifelong New Hampshire resident with a deep seated passion and career for its local politics. As the executive director of the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at Saint Anselm College, Lavesque’s work lies in political engagement and access. In this episode of the 603 podcast, Lavesque touts New Hampshire’s unique role in the primary presidential election and the state’s commitment to local political involvement.
“When you have ownership in any kind of process, whether it be your workplace or in your small town, you feel that you want to participate. And that's why people participate here.”
New Hampshire’s primary presidential election will always be the first held in the nation. This gives the small Granite State, which only has four electoral votes, a lot of power to sway the presidential election. In being first, New Hampshire can indicate a candidate's popularity and either be the success or demise of their campaign. Listen to Lavesque as he breaks down the special political atmosphere of New Hampshire calling it “the state’s sport”, and its historic importance in deciding the nation’s leaders.
Want to get more involved with New Hampshire politics?
- Learn more about current events, speaker series, polling and more at New Hampshire Institute of Politics
- Tune in to New Hampshire Live, a podcast series covering all things political in the Granite State hosted by the executive director Neil Lavesque and former WMUR anchor Josh McElveen.
- Register to Vote! Register to Vote | New Hampshire Secretary of State
Learn more about the history of New Hampshire’s Presidential Primary with the New Hampshire Historical Society as they celebrate 200 years in 2023 at nhhistory.org.
For more information about the 603podcast visit 603podcast.com
This episode was originally recorded in August of 2023. And, as we all know, so much has changed with regard to the upcoming presidential election since the interview that we've added a few notes throughout the podcast to update listeners. At the time of this recording, joe Biden was the Democratic presidential nominee. As of today, in September the fall of 2024, kamala Harris is the new nominee. We are so excited to share this episode because the content is still accurate and relevant, focusing more on the political atmosphere here in New Hampshire and the traditions and ethos of the New Hampshire voter and political system before and beyond the current elections.
Dan Egan:I hope you enjoy this interview with Neil Levesque. Hi and welcome to the 603 Podcast, where we explore the people, places and things that create the culture of New Hampshire. This podcast educates, motivates and discovers the stories that shape the Granite State and its impact on the country and the world. Hi, everybody, I'm extreme sports pioneer, dan Egan, and your host of the 603 Podcast. I'm excited about this podcast for so many reasons First, to share the stories. Second, to meet and get to know the people who create, share and develop the activities, businesses and iconic history of our state. But also to hear from you, our listeners about the stories and ideas you think that we should share on our podcast. You can check out our website at 603podcastcom to learn more about our guests and to share with us your stories and ideas of people who you think we should interview.
Dan Egan:The 603 Podcast is sponsored by Mad River Coffee Roasters in Campton, new Hampshire Always my first stop in the White Mountains, located just off Exit 28 on Highway 93. Check them out online at madrivercoffeeroasterscom. Our 603 Podcast is also sponsored by Waterville Valley Resort, new Hampshire's family resort and host of the 2024 Mogul World Cup. Visit watervillevalleycom to learn more and plan your next visit. Hey, this is Dan Egan and we are back here on the 603 Podcast and, as always, we're talking about the people, places and things that make up the culture of New Hampshire, that impact the US and the world, and these days, front and center is politics. I'm joined now by Neil Levesque, the Executive Director of the New Hampshire Institute of Politics at St Anselm's College, and Neil breaks down for us politics in such a simple way. I think you're going to enjoy this episode. Hey, neil, how are you doing?
Neil Lavesque :I'm doing great. It's a beautiful studio and happy to be on Great subject, yeah no, happy to have you and very excited to have this conversation.
Dan Egan:I don't tiptoe into politics too often and what I always say about my opinions, for me it's just sport. I just like to stir the pot. So I'm sure we can do plenty of that.
Neil Lavesque :I just like to stir the pot so I'm sure we could do plenty of that. Well, it's interesting because I was with my nephew last night and he's 21, and he said you know, I don't even watch the news anymore, neil. I get so confused by all this political stuff. It just seems like everybody's arguing, and I couldn't agree more with him and that's really not what politics is all about and what we do here in New Hampshire. And so you know, it's good to get away from that, because I don't even like it and I'm in the business, and so to get away from that and sort of boil things down and see what the real situation is and what real politics is about, I think is important.
Dan Egan:Yeah, I think sort of the definition of politics has, you know, kind of varied now and almost by definition it's become divisive.
Neil Lavesque :Oh, absolutely so. I think that the best sort of analogy is when I was in college, we studied this professor and he had a book and said why Americans hate politics. And the truth is is that Americans love politics. All you have to do is really turn on the television at night and it's all there is, all day long really. And the idea is is that politics really used to be about two different sort of arguments. And the argument is good in politics, right? So if we were going before a judge and there was, you were the defense attorney and I was the prosecutor, you'd want a good argument, right? Particularly if you're the defendant, you want a good argument and we want that in a democracy.
Neil Lavesque :But now it's become more of a sport where people are sort of they're scoring a touchdown in the first quarter and then they're running around cheering up the crowd and bouncing the football on the opposite coach's head, and that's really what it's sort of become, and it's sort of like my team's better than your team and that's what it's all about.
Neil Lavesque :And the truth is that's not what it's about. But that's the entertainment side and the business side of politics that's really been dominating recently and a lot of people are watching, that, they're tuning in, and so of course the advertisers go that way and of course the eyeballs go that way. So it's good to sort of get away from that. And what I always say is those two lawyers that are arguing in front of a court, you know, they may be pretty vicious at each other inside the courtroom, but afterwards they're going to have a beer or they're having lunch, and that's the way people are in our television studio who are arguing on television and they're in this, you know, real fist fight. And then afterwards they're like hey, jim, let's go get a beer, you know, and people don't see that side.
Dan Egan:Yeah, they're hanging out and that that's really where the work gets done. In a lot of ways too Right, and I think that's super interesting to frame it as the entertainment of politics versus you know, quote, unquote the retail politics. And what makes politics different here in New Hampshire? I mean, we're first in the first in the nation primary and we're famous for town halls and people walking the streets, our parades. What makes that so special here in New Hampshire.
Neil Lavesque :Well, I grew up here, I'm a New Hampshire native and I guess I never really realized that we were so different. We are so different. I just got off the phone with someone from Rhode Island who said they couldn't believe they've just moved up here, how much access you have to elected officials and how much you can be engaged in a state like this. It's not like that in any other state. I was in California last year and there were all these political signs you know, just like we have here in New Hampshire, but you just felt so distant from the fact that you would never have access to a US senator or be able to say you know, congressman, I feel this way. Or Governor Sununu, I mean I think everybody in the state of New Hampshire has the governor's cell phone number at this point.
Neil Lavesque :So what's different is? They say that it's our state sport and some people don't like when we say that. But we're really engaged much more than we are in any other state and we have access much more than we have in any other state. That's why we have the highest voter turnouts than any other state in the nation. That's why people are engaged not only in federal politics and obviously the presidential primary lends to that, but also at the local level. If you live in a small town, you can go to your town meeting and argue about whether or not you get a new pickup truck. I'm still mad about the fact that I was outvoted in the town of Henniker once on a pickup truck issue. But it gives you the real access. And when you feel access, you feel ownership. And when you have ownership in any kind of process, whether it be your workplace or in your small town, you feel that you want to participate and that's why people participate here.
Dan Egan:Yeah, that's special. I mean, when you look at the lineup now and all through the fall there's access it's amazing. And when I see the major national events happening at the Institution of Politics at St A's, I find that fascinating. Talk to me about the institution. What does it do and why is it at St A's? So the Institute of Politics.
Neil Lavesque :They cut the ribbon on it three days before September 11th 2001. Great timing, right, but the point is is that that terrible tragedy was really about people who didn't like democracy, and the Institute is about democracy. We're in the democracy business. So this small 20,000 square foot facility was created on the campus of St Anselm College, which is a very sort of political place in any way. We've held presidential debates and presidential visits for many, many years. So we have two auditoriums. We have a full television studio, so most of the television that you see coming out of New Hampshire is actually filmed in our studio. We have polling that goes on and surveys are going on at all times. We have historic exhibits and then, of course, we have our students and faculty, and they really are the life at the Institute and what goes on. So we are doing you ready for this.
Neil Lavesque :Six to eight big events a week, Wow, and that could be anything from the President of the United States to the Cub Scouts. So we're filling up the room, we're engaged politically with democratic you know different engagement opportunities and we do a lot of signature things, like our politics and eggs signature event. You know, if you, if you were, if you're old enough to know about the show the West wing. You know Josiah Bartlett, the president, was signing eggs in the oval office and they said why are you doing? And he's like I'm going to politics and eggs in New Hampshire. That's a signature event that we do, where they sign the wooden egg. But we do a whole different series of platforms because we want to try to capture as much activity as possible.
Dan Egan:It's amazing, right, and all that activity happening at St Anselm's, and some of the biggest names and the biggest networks roll into town. Is that an ongoing circus, and is it just one after another? What's that like?
Neil Lavesque :Well, you know, showtime created a show that they followed around presidential candidates and all the political activity and they call it the circus. And I said, well, that's perfectly aptly named. It is amazing, during the presidential period last time, so three years ago, we had 13 town hall meetings with CNN and we had an ABC presidential debate. Meetings with CNN and we had an ABC presidential debate all sort of going on at the same time, 200 yards from each other. So you know Anderson Cooper's sitting down in the same cafeteria having his lunch with David Muir, you know. So it's that kind of thing and it becomes a little bit of a circus.
Neil Lavesque :But, that being said, we're only about, you know, a certain percentage, a small percentage of what we do is presidential. A lot of what we do is local politics and gubernatorial or things with media partners like WMUR TV. We do all the grand estate debates with them, the conversation with the candidates. We get audience for them for that. So we're engaged all over the place. Now here's the best part these things are free and open to the public. Nice, so if you just want to say, hey, you know, I'd love to figure out if I would like to hear Vivek Ramaswamy. Right, he's different. I've heard a little bit about him. People ask me about him all the time. That's why I bring him up Well institute and meet them and hear them, and you can do that, and it's centrally located in Manchester.
Dan Egan:New Hampshire, so it's perfect location for you? Absolutely no. That's amazing, and you bring up a lot of good points about New Hampshire. Politics is local. That's what they say right here and our primary what's the town that votes first up in the North country?
Neil Lavesque :That's Dixville Notch and historically they've always voted first.
Neil Lavesque :So even in not just the presidential primary period but also in our general elections, they have a special law that says that if 100% of their registered voters vote then they can close the polls and that's what they do at about 1210, 1215. You know the votes don't necessarily reflect what's going to happen the next day or the next when the sun rises, but it's a fun process and it really highlights New Hampshire. When the old Balsam's Hotel was still in operation up there most of the voters were actually the people that worked there and I remember going through. You know you'd go into the hotel but you'd actually go into like the kitchen and try to meet every single voter. I did that with George W Bush's sister, dorothy, and you know it's just a fun thing to do. So you'll see when you wake up on any election day you'll see where it says Dixville notch or it'll say 1% reporting from New Hampshire and then you know the results. It's just a fun thing to do and it highlights what we do here in New Hampshire.
Dan Egan:Yeah, it makes. It is that sort of icing on the cake that makes New Hampshire is what it is. You know, you're just throwing around names of you know George W Bush and his sister, and probably Trump and others. What's it like for you? Do you sometimes like, how did I get to meet all these people and do you want to meet them all?
Neil Lavesque :Well, yeah, I love meeting them all and the big secret and I usually get booed when I say this at a Rotary Club speech or something like that but the big secret is most of the people that we're dealing with and our elected officials. They are very patriotic people who believe that their way is going to help the country the best. They're not corrupted and they want to do the best thing they possibly can. Democrats and Republicans Now I'm glad no one can boo me when they're listening to this, but the truth is that that's really the way it is. I have some great story. I mean, when Trump was first running, I used to go pick him up at the airport. He used to sit in the front seat of the Suburban with me and drive around New Hampshire in the front seat of the Suburban with me and drive around New Hampshire. I've been to all you know his place in New York City and I almost got a trip one time to Mar-a-Lago. I didn't know what Mar-a-Lago was at the time or who Melania was, who I was going to have dinner with, but I got out of that because I was. I didn't want to get on the plane because I knew that I had to cook dinner for my wife that night. We spend a lot of time behind the scenes with them. Some of them are really funny. Some of them, you know, have bad days, just like we do, and they're on their game or they're not.
Neil Lavesque :I have a daughter who at the time, was 13 years old and she was in our building and Jeb Bush used to do his TV from there, and so he was in the building. I said Molly, do you want to meet Governor Bush? And she said no. And I said Molly, come on, let's go, let's go down the hall and meet Governor Bush. So she, okay. So I said Governor Bush, this is my daughter, molly, she's 13. And he stood up and he lit right up and he said Molly, you come down here and you sit down right next to me.
Neil Lavesque :You tell me, molly, who's your favorite president? And I, molly, looked right at me. It's a 13 year old, and I knew Molly was going to stick her father right there. And then and and I thought, molly, you only have two choices dad and brother, and please don't say Bill Clinton, you know. And uh, and my daughter said well, that would be James K Polk, to which my knees started to wobble. Jeb Bush looked at me cause I think he thought I was going to pass out, which I was. He started laughing. And then Jeb Bush, as if he was David McCullough, the presidential historian, sat there and rattled off the top 20 reasons why James K Polk was an excellent answer to the question, to which I really realized at that time that Jeb Bush was pretty amazing and knew his stuff and still does, and hopefully he remembers that story. I love that and does Molly. Molly loves that story and she always will joke about James K Polk. She's a neuroscience major, so we're safe.
Dan Egan:That's awesome. Well, congratulations to you. That's a nice tribute when all these people come in and we're first in the nation. What is the relevance of that? Why is it so important? I mean, over my multiple decades of living in the state, sometimes I've been like who cares and then sometimes like I totally care. Sometimes I've been like who cares and then sometimes like I totally care.
Neil Lavesque :Why should we care that we're first in this? Well, it's a perfect state for this experiment and for the fact that we really test candidates. You can't do this in California. Let me tell you how you campaign in California. The jet comes, it goes to LAX, you go to the nearest hotel, you have a press conference and you have a fundraiser and you get on the jet and you take off again. That's how they campaign in other states and that's not good for democracy. We need a place where we test candidates, and this is the place.
Neil Lavesque :High voter turnouts, a small number of voters, people who are engaged, people who like to ask questions and then ask the follow-up question. Sometimes candidates don't like that. I know of one right now who's the president of the United States. He did not campaign here for all intents and purposes. He came in fifth as a result. Now we don't always pick the winner, and that's okay. We're not trying to say to other states you have to pick who we did. What we're trying to do is test the candidates and weed out candidates to whom we think will show the test of time, and so we've been successful at doing that, I think.
Neil Lavesque :So some will say well, joe Biden became president, even though he came in fifth. Well, maybe there's a reason he came in fifth, and maybe that's on display a little bit right now Not to be partisan. But if you're not a good communicator and you're not going before voters and taking questions and showing the fact that you're authentic and you can think on your feet and you stand up for and believe in what you're saying, a lot of the times the people they're just people, they're voters, but you know they're just like everybody else. We know when people were, you know, bsing us and if you're doing that, voters sense it and it rises to the surface and I think that's what happened last time. Remember that New Hampshire's four electoral votes. We only have four 54 in California, four in New Hampshire. If Al Gore had won our four electoral votes, he would have become president of the United States. It's a four electoral votes that are a swing state that they have to compete in. So the big worry is is that Joe Biden will not do as well here in a general election because he didn't compete.
Neil Lavesque :Elected officials never like to be challenged in primaries. They want to just sail right into that general election. Right? I don't want to be bothered with this. I'd like to be on Cape Cod this summer, not campaigning in Amherst, new Hampshire. The truth is that primaries actually help you and give you strength and make you a better candidate. You know there's a funny story that when Sarah Palin was picked by McCain, they sequestered her for a week in like a hotel room and said, okay, we need to show you where Tokyo is, you know. And she was trying to. They were trying to sort of teach her and get her to be a good candidate in a week. And Barack Obama sort of laughed and said to his campaign manager quite famously look, it took me 14 months of making 10 speeches a day to get pretty good and they can't teach her this in a week. Yeah, and he was right. You know, campaigns make you stronger and they give you more access to voters and it weeds out the bad ideas and the weak candidates and it makes you a stronger candidate.
Dan Egan:So then I saw this thing where we want to make sure in New Hampshire that Biden is a write-in candidate, because if he loses here is that an embarrassment for the state, and should we be writing Biden in so?
Neil Lavesque :what's all that? So Biden right now has said that he will not put his name on the ballot in New Hampshire unless we say that we're not going to go first in the nation. Now, I can assure you right now that we're going to be first in the nation. So he's not going to put his name on the ballot, and that's risky, right. So are they going to run a real organized write-in campaign? Are enough Democrats going to say, well, I'm going to go to the polls anyway, even though there's no excitement on my side, I'm going to write in Joe Biden. Or are they going to vote for somebody like Robert Kennedy? So if Robert Kennedy has some momentum, even if he came in second with a pretty strong showing, that embarrasses the president. So in 1968, johnson won but he almost lost, and that was sort of the writing on the wall. The bigger example of that is Estes Kieffhofer, who it's taken me years to pronounce that correctly. Good job. No one knew who Estes Kieffhofer was, or still does, but Estes Kieffhofer.
Neil Lavesque :In 195 it was a real question as to whether or not Harry Truman was going to run again, and we had this primary. So he signs up and he starts campaigning and Harry Truman basically says oh, it's a bunch of they called it eyewash at the time. I've never understood that. But basically he said it's a bunch of BS, I'm not competing there. And then at the last second they said well, maybe we should. So at the last second he put his name on the ballot and, to the surprise of everyone, especially S S Kieffhofer, s Kieffhofer won.
Neil Lavesque :And so S Kieffhofer is there winning the New Hampshire presidential primary, embarrassing a sitting president, devastating the White House. And shortly after that Truman says I'm not going to run for reelection and we know what happened with Eisenhower, so you got to be careful in this situation. And I do not think that the White House has properly thought out what they're going to do. And some of the things with the Biden announcement had been strange too, like the announcement wasn't from a big group of people or like in a you know, going to a state that's in play and making a big speech. It was, you know, a three minute announcement speech made in a studio. It's kind of indicative of what, how they're going to campaign, and we'll see if that works.
Dan Egan:Just a note here, new Hampshire did not hold the first Democratic primary in 2024, due to changes implemented by the Democratic National Committee, the DNC. In 2002, joe Biden and the DNC pushed for a revised primary calendar to better reflect the diversity of the Democratic Party. This change moved South Carolina to the first spot in February 3rd of this year, 2024, followed by Nevada and then New Hampshire on Feb 6th. However, new Hampshire state law mandates that the primary must be first in the nation, leading the state to hold its Democratic primary earlier on January 23rd, 2024. As a result, the DNC did not sanction the New Hampshire primary and no delegates were awarded for this early contest. Despite these sanctions, the state went ahead with its plans and President Biden did not appear on the ballot, aligned with the DNC rules. Nevertheless, a successful write-in campaign for Biden secured him a majority of the vote. Now back to my conversation with Neil Levesque. Tell me why people should turn out. Why should they come? Why should they vote? It's a primary. Why do it?
Neil Lavesque :I get this all the time because I go to you know a barbecue or cookout and people are like I don't bother with that political stuff and you know it's rigged. Look, I have a car that I spend a lot of money on and I change the oil Right a lot of money on and I change the oil right. And you live in a community where your tax dollars and your voice are either going to get heard or they're not, and your tax dollars are going to get spent in one way or the other. And maybe having a say of where and how and how that money is spent, it would be a big reason to participate. But more than that, I mean this is our America reason to participate. But more than that, I mean this is our America, this is our country and we're either going to participate or somebody else is for us, and a lot of people understand that if somebody doesn't vote, their vote counts that much more right, and so you're letting somebody else participate.
Neil Lavesque :It's at the heart of what we do. You know, I have a student who's from Russia and he's just fascinated with all of this. He cannot believe what kind of system we have and he's so jealous of it and, of course, we take it for granted. Participating is so easy to go cast a vote, to do some homework on it, and I always joke that you know. People say well, why are these 30-second television ads? They drive me crazy, I can't stand them. Well, the reason why they're on television is that they work, and sometimes people spend more time figuring out what kind of Tesla they're going to buy than who they're going to vote for for president, which is really sad.
Dan Egan:It's true, you know, your knowledge is amazing. You know the history and all that. What sparked all this for you? How'd you get the passion for politics?
Neil Lavesque :Well, everybody in my family is a dentist Everyone my grandfather was and my father and brothers and sisters, cousins, uncles. I have no idea why I went into this, but I always had a real knack for it and I always liked it from the very beginning. And I think if you do something that you are aligned with and love, you know you're not really working. So the best part for me is these students who are 20 years old, who are full of life and full of optimism. They're voting in big numbers and being around them really gives you a sense of the future and it's a great thing to be engaged in. The other thing, if you might've noticed with you know, unless I bring out some facts, I'm trying to be as nonpartisan as possible and that can be challenging. But the truth is is that we need people that are sort of in the middle and sort of looking at both sides and being equally critical of both sides.
Neil Lavesque :What was your major in college? Are you ready Politics? So my father, who's a dentist, said he, I have a lot of father stories. My father, hopefully, is not listening to this, but, um, he's always like I. You gave a speech at my friend's rotary club and you were talking quite a bit about me and I don't think it was very flattering.
Neil Lavesque :And I, what? So, um, when I came out, he goes I don't know where you're going to work. How do you get a job, like, do you run for office or you work at McDonald's or something, because you're not going to be like a lawyer or a dentist or a dentist. So the funny thing is is that all the people in my family who are dentists love politics, because people are in there and they're talking like I really like this person, and so they have to know something about it and they're engaged with people all day long. So I just think that it's been an interesting thing and, for me, the history of it and watching these candidates many different levels and how they engage.
Neil Lavesque :They're fascinating people. They're a lot more like entrepreneurs than anything else. You know, entrepreneurs basically risk everything and put it all on the line for their idea, and that's like politics. And half of everyone who puts their name on a ballot loses. And, by the way, you can't go home and say, hey, mom, I told those people at St Anselm College to shove it and quit my job. No, you get fired amongst the populace, and so it's very risky and you really have to sort of love your country and love your community quite a bit, to put it all on the line.
Dan Egan:Yeah, I mean that's fascinating right that they lose publicly right and you have to carry, walk that around and I can really. Your dad makes me laugh the story with your dad, because you know, you hear, oh, I'm Pauly Sy and you think, okay, now what right. And did you have that moment? And you've made it now to be at New Hampshire Institute of Politics in your home state where you grew up. That just doesn't happen. That's not like you just walked into that position.
Neil Lavesque :No, but the business of politics is alive and well and a lot of it has to do with the voters, right? So I mentioned 30-second television ads, all the different campaign things that are going on, but remember all of that television that we talked about earlier, that's on all day long. That's commerce and people in business. They're my largest audience outside of students, because they want to know what's going on, because they want to chart the path of where their business is going and who's going to interrupt that, because the government could really interrupt some things. So they're engaged in it and you're around these types of business people, and so the business of politics is alive and well. And I have former students that are very young who are doing very, very well in politics. And you don't think of it because you think. Well, you know if you're a doctor or a lawyer, you're going to make this much money and you automatically go out. Well, to some degree, the amount of money and lucrative opportunities in certain aspects of politics are definitely out there as well.
Dan Egan:And do you have to be political within that system yourself as you climb up the political ladder?
Neil Lavesque :No, I think you know there's a lot of people in this business that are doing quite well because they recognize so. They could be technical people, people in podcasting, people in creating television ads or web ads or broadcasting in general or any number of things, and they don't really have an interest in politics or an ideology. But remember that that money is being spent. We're going to see a billion dollars spent on both sides in the presidential election. That's a billion. By the way, when you place ads, if you're an ad placer, you know you make between 10 and 12 percent off the top. So you know when one of these presidential campaigns is spending, you know a couple hundred million dollars. If you're the ad placer, that's pretty good.
Dan Egan:Happy to take it. Yeah, it's a. It's a great cycle and that's why I brought up earlier is just the economics of it. It matters. Here in New Hampshire we all feel it, it's a positive thing and it's exciting. They always talk about the cycle getting longer. Right, they're starting earlier. Can you put that in perspective for us? Has it gone that way? And, yeah, what's your insight on that?
Neil Lavesque :Well, it always kind of feels like that right. So all of a sudden we're seeing yard signs early on, or yard signs never come down right. The truth is is that if voters are engaged in any way, people in politics are going to try to engage them. So if there's something going on let's say that there's a COVID or there's high inflation and it's bugging people and there's an issue there you're going to start to see political activity that haunts in on that vacuum. And so we're seeing longer. I don't know if it's longer.
Neil Lavesque :You know, the best presidential campaigns are ones that really start out way beforehand and really have a plan. These folks that get in at the last minute and say you know, I don't know if I'm going to get in, I'm trying to make up my mind, and then they try to find a few straggling campaign managers and throw something together. They're usually not successful. I have friends who in 1982 were up at the Mount Washington Hotel and Bill and Hillary Clinton were there and they were talking to some folks and making their way and they said I bet they're going to be back here at some point. You know, he had a long plan and even Barack Obama had a long plan. I'd say the shortest person with a plan would be George W Bush, but you really don't know. When he was elected Texas governor did he have this in mind? I don't know. Probably they don't really necessarily admit to that in the biography that no one reads except me, but a lot of the times. Well thought out political campaigns take a long time.
Dan Egan:Yeah, absolutely. It would make sense, right that it would have a foundation to move on. You've been at it a long time and, of course, age and time is wisdom At the end of the day. I know it matters, but does it matter? Are they all the same people, decade after decade, in one way, form or another? Or are their ideas really different? Or do you just say yeah, I've heard that last cycle.
Neil Lavesque :Oh well, I do say that, sometimes a lot, but everything evolves and political parties evolve quite a bit, in fact. They have to evolve because they have to keep winning. The only reason that political parties exist is to win. It's an amazing sort of entity. People think that they're for having cocktail parties or raising money or something. No, the only reason political parties exist is to win, and they're always trying to get to 51. So if 5% of the voters really care about this issue and you think that you can capture that, you're going to start going in that direction.
Neil Lavesque :Think about the Republican Party pre-Trump. You know it was fiscally conservative, it was a sort of pro-foreign relations expanding American values across the world. A whole series of different things. This has completely changed, and so people will say well, you know, the South used to have Democrats and the Northeast used to have Republicans. Now they're endangered species. Well, there's a reason for that is that the parties have evolved to capture one side of that or the other. The Republican Party is now more focused on Southern voters and the Democratic Party is more focused on the coasts, and they've done so successfully, but at the expense of the fact that, you know, you're not really electing a lot of Democrats, blue dog Democrats down South. So things evolve Certainly.
Neil Lavesque :You know I have heard so many Ronald Reagan comparisons from the Republican side. You know you can sit there and sort of check your watch to it and that's sort of fading now because you know my students are like Ronald, who you know. I think that over time, though, a lot of these platitudes we've heard before, but a lot of times voters test them and they want to know more. You know it's great that you can say and get a little biography and say I came from the wrong side of the tracks. Here I am, isn't it great? That's wonderful. But what are you going to do for me? Yeah, that's really what voters want to know At the end of the day.
Dan Egan:Yeah, Now you know. You brought this point up. It's not all about national politics here in New Hampshire, it's about local politics. But even those campaigns are getting more expensive, right? Whether it's senators, congressmen, governors and down the line. What's money have to do at the local level as far as raising it, and can you do it as an unknown? Can you get into that system and get some traction?
Neil Lavesque :Absolutely so. The great thing about New Hampshire is we have 400 members of our house and 24 members of our state Senate. 424 members, that's a lot of seats to fill and sometimes the few thousand voters are who you represent, particularly in the statehouse. So there are ways to run for those offices and go and meet your neighbors and actually go out and campaign on a grassroots level for very little money. Now, certainly, money has expanded now in politics. Now why is that? Because voters are less in tune to what is going on in their communities and money can influence how they vote.
Neil Lavesque :Very simple and, by the way, it's definitely on both sides. When I hear an ad that says we need to get rid of dark money and then at the end of the ad and the real quick little thing paid for by dark money, you know you're like oh yeah, did anybody hear that besides me? So, um, there's a lot of hypocrisy in this business, but uh, that's a big one, so you can definitely run. The other thing is is that let's say that you're pro pro second amendment. There's money on the pro second amendment side. That's the gun issue. And then let's say that you're for limiting the Second Amendment. There's money on that side.
Neil Lavesque :So let's say you were to run for Congress and you were to take a series of positions. There are people who are going to contribute to your campaign based upon your positions on both sides of an issue. Sometimes the grassroots are stronger than the money side and that matters. We've seen that recently with abortion. The abortion issue is very strong on the sort of grassroots level and so that can make a difference in some of these local campaigns. But definitely money has a lot more of an influence. Remember, those state reps are making $100 a year and some people believe they're overpaid Exactly.
Dan Egan:And it's great you keep talking about the students and in the engagement of the youth. I can't remember the name, but I think there's a couple of young representatives in our state house right that are just out of high school or something.
Neil Lavesque :Yeah, and that's not too too uncommon. There's always been people who are 18 years old who run Sometimes they're in college or they're out of school or whatever they're doing and they run in their local communities and they win. We had someone representative of Levesque I can't remember what town she represents but she said you know, I don't think that young people who are 16 years old should be able to get married. I think that I think in New Hampshire it was 14 or something. I think it kind of raised a lot of eyebrows when she brought it. She fought very hard for this and she raised the age that it took for people to consent to getting married. So you can really make a difference in the state house and she was successful. But certainly we've had some young people Our former Secretary of State who was sort of a legend, bill Gardner.
Neil Lavesque :He was a very young state rep. He was opposed to the Vietnam War and he ran for state rep. Our National Committee man out of Concord, republican national committee man, steve Dupree, is a pretty well-known guy in New Hampshire. I think he was elected when he was 18. So we do have some of that. I've had students who run successfully and you can be 18 years old and serve in that legislature and it's great, it's, it's good, you know it's. I will not say they bring down the median age pretty drastically when they are elected. I mean, if you go into the new hampshire state house I don't want to make comparisons to hanging out with my parents, but uh, you can, you can, you can deduct what you can out of that neil.
Dan Egan:It's amazing. I really appreciate the conversation. Uh, and all throughout the conversation, I hear hope, I hear positivity, I hear a feeling that we're going to be okay. Can you talk to that? Are we going to be okay?
Neil Lavesque :Well, I mentioned, my nephew didn't want to watch the news because he feels so depressed about the fact that there's so much gloom and doom. And you know what's that? Billy Joel did that song in the 1990s saying you know, we didn't start the fire and nailed all these sort of terrible things that were happening. It's the same here, but you just can't shut that out. We're human beings and we have to be engaged. You know, I'll leave you with this thought.
Neil Lavesque :Last year I went to Denali National Park by myself. I went into the back country. I had to get a special back country permit. I spent five days by myself with the bears and I can tell you the bears they run that place. So I packed everything I planned for months and months and the thing I didn't really plan for was the fact that I didn't have human engagement and I broke because of it. It really affected me and I said, okay, I've had enough after five days and I came out and I think that people, you need human engagement, and politics are really at the heart of that.
Dan Egan:The heartbeat of America.
Neil Lavesque :Thought you were going to ask me about the grizzly bears Did you intend to stay longer?
Neil Lavesque :I had probably wanted to put another day in, but you know, after a while it really wears on you and I mean I had everything and I was looking at Denali Mountain, the mountain of Denali McKinley, and I said, boy, this is the largest peak in North America and I've never seen anything like it and the bears and the beautiful things. But when you don't have anybody to really talk to, after a while it affects you and you can't really plan for that. So, yes, when I got on the, the buses are required to pick up people like me who come out of the backcountry or on the road, and they're full of, you know, aged tourists, and so when I did get on that bus, I had a lot of these poor people were like, well, that guy just stopped, you know, shut up, put him in the front of the bus.
Dan Egan:That's great. So if people want to learn more about the New Hampshire Institute of Politics, where do they go?
Neil Lavesque :So if you just Google NHIOP, you'll find us and sign up for our events. It's free, again open to the public, and we want to see you. We want you to be there and you can contact me directly on that webpage and happy to entertain anything that you have an interest in.
Dan Egan:Neil, thanks so much for joining us here on the 603. We really appreciate it.
Neil Lavesque :It's great to be on. Thanks, a lot of fun Nice.
Dan Egan:Hey, thanks for listening to the 603 Podcast with me, dan Egan. Make sure you check out our website at 603podcastcom. Please support the sponsors that make this show possible for more stories, tales and exploration of the Granite State.
