603Podcast with Dan Egan
603podcast explores the people, places and things that create the culture of New Hampshire. From the Great North Woods to the peaks and valleys of White Mountains, in and around the Lakes, on and off the Seacoast, throughout the Merrimack the Monadnock Regions, to the Dartmouth-Lake Sunapee area. This podcast educates, motivates and discovers the stories that shape the "Granite State" and its impact on the country and the world.
Hosted by extreme sports pioneer Dan Egan, you’ll hear inspiring in-depth stories, from our featured guests that are the heartbeat of the Granite State through conversationally discussions with New Hampshire’s most notable, need to know folks and characters make New Hampshire truly special place.
603Podcast with Dan Egan
New Hampshire's Old Man of the Mountain: A Historical Perspective with the Museum of the White Mountains' Director Meghan Doherty
On this episode of the 603podcast, Dan Egan speaks with Director Meghan Doherty from the Museum of the White Mountains, where the Old Man of the Mountain’s legacy is preserved through exhibits and lectures exploring the Old Man’s geological and cultural significance. Meghan has been instrumental in preserving the legacy of the Old Man of the Mountain. Her passion for New Hampshire’s history and her dedication to education and community engagement have made the museum a central hub for those wishing to connect with the Granite State’s rich heritage.
Back in the mid-19th century, the journey to see the Old Man was a true adventure. Visitors would take the train to Plymouth, New Hampshire, and then continue by stagecoach through Woodstock and Lincoln, making the sight of the Old Man even more rewarding. As tourism in New Hampshire grew, so did the prominence of the Old Man. By the late 1800s, it became a fixture in promotional materials and a symbol of the state's identity long before it was officially adopted as the state emblem. The Old Man of the Mountain stood proudly in Franconia Notch and the natural rock formation was beloved by generations. Megan shares that:
“For over a century, the Old Man stood watch over Franconia Notch, a silent guardian carved by nature itself.”
In May 2003, New Hampshire experienced a profound loss when the Old Man collapsed. Despite efforts to preserve it, nature took its course. Yet, the spirit of the Old Man lives on, continuing to inspire and appear on driver's licenses, road signs, and in the hearts of Granite Staters.
“The story of the Old Man of the Mountain is a testament to New Hampshire's enduring spirit. Despite its physical absence, the Old Man remains a powerful symbol of the state's natural beauty and resilient character.”
Want to learn more about the history of the White Mountains? Visit the Museum of the White Mountains in Plymouth, NH or go online to https://www.plymouth.edu/mwm/
For more information about the 603podcast visit 603podcast.com
Hi and welcome to the 603 podcast, where we explore the people, places and things that create the culture of New Hampshire. This podcast educates, motivates and discovers the stories that shape the Granite State and its impact on the country and the world. Hi, everybody, I'm extreme sports pioneer Dan Egan and your host of the 603 podcast. I'm excited about this podcast for so many reasons. First, to share the stories. Second, to meet and get to know the people who create, share and develop the activities, businesses and iconic history of our state. But also to hear from you, our listeners, about the stories and ideas you think that we should share on our podcast. You can check out our website at 603podcastcom to learn more about our guests and to share with us your stories and ideas of people who you think we should interview.
Dan Egan:The 603 Podcast is sponsored by Mad River Coffee Roasters in Campton, new Hampshire Always my first stop in the White Mountains, located just off exit 28 on Highway 93. Check them out online at madrivercoffeeroasterscom. Our 603 podcast is also sponsored by Waterville Valley Resort, new Hampshire's family resort and host of the 2024 Mogul World Cup. Visit watervillevalleycom to learn more and plan your next visit. And we're back right here on the 603. Of course, we're always talking about all things New Hampshire, the people, places and things that identify us as the state of New Hampshire, and nothing I can think of identifies us more than Granite Staters, than the old man on the mountain, and today we're at the Museum of the White Mountains with the director, megan Daugherty. Megan, how are you doing today?
Meghan Doherty:I'm great. Thanks for coming by. It's great to have you here at the museum.
Dan Egan:Yeah, it's so nice. You know, this is just one of those buildings here on the campus of Plymouth State. That's right on the main drag and I'm ashamed, like so many other residents, we drive by and we never come in. You must have that experience when people come through the door.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, and we also, because we're in a renovated Methodist church, we get. I haven't been here since we baptized my X number of year old daughter. Or you know the last time I was in here was for my daughter's wedding. So you know we have been here 10 years and we're always excited when local people come in, and even you know whether it's their first time or their 50th time it's always great to have folks from the community come in.
Dan Egan:Yeah, and when I heard you, you had this exhibit on the old man of the mountain. I was like now I'm going in because of course the old man is iconic. There was so much tied up in the brand of New Hampshire with the old man and the loss of the old man in 2003. And that May, early May of 2003, was tragic. But before we get into that and all the history around the old man, I really want to explore the old man as our state image, the branding of that. You know just what's your take on what the old man represents and means to granite staters.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, and I think it means different things to different people, which is part of why it's so persistent and lasting, I think as an emblem, because part of it is the glory and splendor of the mountains. It's, you know, it's on Cannon Cliff, which is this mile long, you know, thousand foot tall cliff. That really defines Franconia Notch. And then to have such a distinctive face, right, it wasn't just like if I squint, I guess, I think maybe that looks like a face, but it was unmistakable. And I think also it there was a kind of magic about it.
Meghan Doherty:So, as a kid growing up in the North country, you know we'd drive down, I'd be in the back seat, you'd kind of press your face, you know, twist your body, press your face against the window watching for it, watching for it, watching for it, and then it was there. And so I think that that was a part of it too, was that it was? You had to really look for it. But then when you saw it, you couldn't disagree, right, no one was going to say that's not a face, right, and and so I think that was a big piece of it, that it was just so recognizable and and so visible there, especially after you know the the interstate was built for. You know those of us that that don't really remember the pre interstate world estate world, but then it becomes like everywhere.
Dan Egan:I mean, you know, we, it was on license plates, it's on commercials, as you were saying, like the old man was our identity in so many ways. Just take us, walk us through that from politics to the grocery store. The old man was everywhere.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, yeah, and it was everywhere from the late 1880s and 90s. So New Hampshire Fire Insurance is using it in their signage and in their advertising in the 1890s and Granite State Potato Chip, which is based down in Salem in the early 1900s, is using it as their logo. That that you know. Granite state, old man, that's all you need to know. Um, and I think again it's. You know it was sort of for everyone that it was there on the cliff. You could see it and it, um, and then it also, so it's um, it's.
Meghan Doherty:You know, later in the, in the 20th century, that it becomes the official emblem, but it's really the unofficial emblem of the state well before that. And. But then you know, and even before it was officially the emblem, it was on license plates in the twenties. So there's a license plate in the exhibition from 1926 that has the old man of the mountain on it and and still today. I think this is one of the things that I find so fascinating is, 20 years later it's still on my driver's license and my license plate and you know the road signs and that it kind of persists. And you know there wasn't like, oh well, it fell down. We better get a new state symbol.
Dan Egan:Yeah, we didn't walk away from it.
Meghan Doherty:And it really.
Dan Egan:It really talks to cultural memory, right, it talks to identifying and belonging to New Hampshire or visiting New Hampshire If you've seen the old man or you know that that's New Hampshire, you know. And and this idea of belonging I think people like yourself have stories. Everybody has a story about the old man first time they saw it driving through you know how many. I remember my uncle always taking his photo in front of old man, viewing right, and sending it to everybody at Christmas cards and things like that. So it really was in the culture throughout the entire state and and very interesting about that right Throughout the entire state and and very interesting about that Right that even now, 20 years after the loss of the of the old man, you would think it's still there.
Meghan Doherty:It's almost like we're in a form of denial. Are we in denial, I think? I mean, I think we maybe it's a it's a collective forgetting right that I've actually had people come in to the exhibition and not know that it was gone, or talk about how they, you know, 10 years ago, went to go see it and didn't know it had been gone for 10 years, and that you know, still coming back to try to get that glimpse. And I think also for so many, you know, as you're saying, you have a family member, you know there's so many folks have come in over the summer and told us stories about, you know, going with their grandparents, you know when, you know, when they were little and now they're in their 70s and you know that it is this really strong memory.
Meghan Doherty:And I think you know one of the things that that is on display in the exhibition are poems that were written by fifth graders at Lafayette Elementary in Franconia. So you know they end up in Profile High School. So Profile, the Profile, is still such a strong kind of visual force in Franconia and the poems these kids wrote, they're 10, 11. They've definitely never seen the Old man and the mountain as it was there, but it's still. They're really fascinating looks at, kind of how it's still part of the culture and part of the story of you know this sort of benevolent, grisly, you know figure watching over us, watching over Franconia, you know, watching over the state park now, and I think that's a piece of it too that kind of there was this. You know this old man was looking out for us.
Meghan Doherty:And even if he's gone, you know they're still looking out for us, and so it's a great they're just really great poems that they wrote.
Dan Egan:I mean, there's so many times where we long to see humanity in nature, in the clouds, in the mountains. People go to the mountains right to find themselves and to see the old man. They could see a reflection of them in the state. You know, this is a hardy, we're hardy people and if you live in this state, putting your chin to the wind is an everyday event. And up there in Franconia, of course they're a rugged people. Right, it has its own weather tragedy and triumph of the weather. And of course you have all these beautiful places to look at Franconia, whether it's the artist bluffs or you're going to do the ridge walk along Lafayette, lincoln and Haystack Loop, right, and that's amazing. But really, this identification with granite?
Dan Egan:right and just and just now in the display here in the museum talking about the different types of granite. Oh, now we're blaming the granite in a way. You know that granite was too soft to hold the old man, but that probably what formed it. And putting this into perspective today's weather climate, things are changing. The fact that it was formed by the glacier what? 14,000 years ago or something?
Meghan Doherty:12, maybe.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, yeah, well, and one of the things so we've had this whole series of lectures this summer to kind of expand on.
Meghan Doherty:You know, we can only do so much in an exhibition, so our lecture series kind of expands out on some of the things we've touched on. And one of the or two of the talks were geologists who were thinking about kind of how was it formed in the post-glacial moment and how long could it have stayed there, given the kind of balancing act that it was? And so there's some thought that maybe it wasn't there since the glacier receded, that maybe there had been another fall, you know that just sort of one day there it was ways, as we have kind of more advanced technology, are there ways we can try to study this and think about how long were those rocks exposed? How long could it have possibly stayed there, with what we're now learning about, the rate at which Conway Granite weathers, and so there's all kinds of scientific research that's still happening about, kind of focused on and driven by this question. I mean that must have freaked out the dinosaurs.
Dan Egan:It wasn't there and then boom, it was there. They're like whoa, what's happening? Yeah, that their favorite watering hole. Right, they're at Echo Lake and there it is a profile lake. It's, I think people can identify with Franconia Notch. Right, it's, the highway changes and you go through and it's an experience, it's a journey, and when we think about the highway we take it for granted. Buzz up the highway right, but it always it wasn't always there. How did people originally get to the old man in Profile Lake and Franconia Notch?
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, so we talk in the exhibition about how it wasn't easy right it wasn't easy. If you wanted, in the middle of the 19th century you'd heard about it. You wanted to come up and see it. You had a couple of options. One was you would take the train up to Plymouth and at the Pemma Jawaset house right on the river. There you would get off the train, probably have lunch, maybe even stay the night, and then take the stagecoach up from the Pemma Jawaset house and then you'd take a stage up to Franconia Notch.
Dan Egan:So how would people get to Franconia Notch before the highway?
Meghan Doherty:So it wasn't easy and you had a couple options depending where you were coming from. So if you were coming from the south, you would take the train eventually to Plymouth. So this is by the middle of the 19th century. Before that it was stagecoached the whole way.
Dan Egan:Early 1900s.
Meghan Doherty:In the 1850s the train comes to Plymouth and at that point you're starting to have more hotels in the area. More people are coming. It's kind of like they're growing together right. More people hear about the beauty of the White Mountains, they build more hotels. You get more tourists. You need ways to get them around. So we get the train comes to Plymouth, but it didn't keep going straight up like the interstate does. It went around to Haverhill, so it went through Rumney and around to Haverhill and up that way.
Meghan Doherty:That's how you'd get to Littleton. You could get to Littleton on the train, but you went up through Haverhill and Woodsville and so you'd transfer. You'd get off the train here in Plymouth, take a stagecoach up to Franconia Notch and you might stop in Woodstock, you might stop in Lincoln, you know, and then there was the Flume House as well as the Profile House, in right, you know, between Echo and Profile Lakes, or you would go all the way up and then you would take the state. You'd take a coach down from Bethlehem or Franconia and even you know, later on, the owners of the Profile House, which was this big grand hotel that could sleep 600 people.
Dan Egan:Wow, 600 people.
Meghan Doherty:Where the Cannon Tramway parking lot is now. They built their own rail line from Bethlehem down to the Profile House so that you could not have to take the coach profile house, so that you could not have to take the coach. But it wasn't, it wasn't easy and it wasn't, you know, until Route 3 and then eventually 93 were built, that you know you had that kind of easy, easy path through you know dedication and really the power of nature, how it moves us, and then to really the old man reveals itself up there.
Dan Egan:So you take this journey, it reveals itself. We're talking about 1850 and really the birth of tourism and how that we're anchored in tourism here in New Hampshire.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, and you know, I think that, yeah, it's hard to think about tourism in New Hampshire without the old man and it's hard to think about the old man without tourism. I mean, I think it was such a draw for so many people, a really concrete destination, and because it was again everywhere in the promotional materials. So we talked about commercial, we talked about you talked about you know, state things, but in the promotional materials the old man is everywhere, from the middle of the 19th century even now. I mean, we, we're selling stickers by you know, uh, an artist based in bethlehem that have lived free in the old man. Right, we're still, in 2023, still selling the old man. So they've just inseparable, I think.
Dan Egan:Absolutely, and it just goes to tourism as an industry, particularly in the grand hotel days. I mean, those are magical days. You're talking about hotels with 600 beds, massive ballrooms and dining rooms. What a grand time to be seeing the old man.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, yeah. And then at Profile Lake they had a boathouse and you know you could rent a boat and paddle out you know, rowboat, paddle out and kind of gaze up at the old man, and there were musical performances and artists in residence and shops where you could buy paintings, you could buy stereographs, you could buy postcards. You know there was a whole range of kind of price points, if you will, of the kinds of memorabilia and fine art and memorabilia that you could buy with the old man on them, all right there at the Profile House.
Dan Egan:You know, on the 603 podcast we're always talking to people who love New Hampshire for the transformation they have with their personal journey and adventure around the state. And you know, I think that here with the old man, we have sort of the cornerstone of that experience and there's really no separation between art, artistry and nature, right, and it's fair to say that the old man inspired countless artists and give us a top 10. What's the greatest hits?
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, yeah, oh, my gosh. Well, so one of the you know, one of the things in the exhibition is what's thought to be the first landscape photograph is of the old man. So 1841, the daguerreotype had just been invented and just been introduced in the United States, and actually a dentist named Samuel Bemis was fascinated, bought a kit, bought the pamphlet that explained how to use it, and in in September 1841, came up, stayed at the Lafayette house, which is a precursor to the to the profile house, and among the first things he pointed his brand new camera at was the old man of the mountain. And um, and so I think it's a story that's not often told that the kind of beginnings of landscape photography happened with the old man of the mountain. But I think it fits perfectly with what we know, what we think about, you know, from from the perspective of a granite stater, of course, like what else would you turn your camera to if you live in Boston and you just bought this new amazing invention? And so that's just. You know.
Meghan Doherty:One example there's paintings in the exhibition by Edward Hill, who's a well-known White Mountain painter. Albert Bierstadt came a number of times, His brothers also came and made this really amazing photography book where you can. There's a built-in stereo viewer inside of the book, so it's kind of like those Viewmasters where you cook through with the two eyepieces, but it's again from the Ahead of the time.
Meghan Doherty:I think it's from the 1870s and so Beer Shot came a number of times. There's a one of our speakers, summer um, showed an image of a sketch that thomas cole made of it when he was up here. So all the kind of white mountain painters who came to the region. So, samuel lancaster gary. There was many, many, many paintings that he did um of, of the old man and um, there's. You know, we couldn't, we could never have put on display all of the old man and there's. You know we couldn't, we could never have put on display all of the paintings of the old man of the mountain, because there's just so, so many Wow.
Dan Egan:Yeah, and you know, photography has become one of those things at the click of a camera in our phone we don't really think about the lighting and the angles and all that went into early photography. And to see it all the way back then to track and connect with early photography in general of landscape and nature, is fascinating. You know, we're in this era where there's grand hotels and people are hanging out, they're spending, they're not coming and going, it's not a three-day vacation, right, they're taking their time and they're really saturating themselves in the experience. And what a beautiful place to do that in Franconia, notch. But these grand hotels, the fires, it's almost to a T, they have tragic endings, right.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, yeah, I mean I think you just have that big of a wooden structure, that many you know, gas lamps and everything else and wood heated and you know I mean the, the, the profile house, burned in summer but you know so many of the others burned in winter.
Dan Egan:Maybe one or two smokers as residents as residents. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's definitely a, you know, a story we could tell multiple times throughout the region and it really, you know, shapes what we have, as Franconia Notch today in the state park. Tell us the story of what happened after it burnt down.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, so 1923, the profile house burnt and you know, at that time it was huge, 600 beds, and it had just sold to new owners and they decided that, you know, whatever the insurance was, it wasn't enough.
Meghan Doherty:They really just couldn't rebuild and decided to sell the land and the hotel was on a parcel that was 6,000 acres, so it was a big piece of land. And this was not 1920s, it's not that long after the creation of the White Mountain National Forest, and so there's a lot of concern in the area and in the region that the land is going to be sold for timber, it's going to be clear cut, it's going to have more landslides that the old man's going to, you know, be kind of destroyed because of logging, be kind of destroyed because of logging. And so a group gets together, kind of led by the Forest Society, the Appalachian Mountain Club and the Federation of Women's Clubs, and they convince the state to purchase the land and the state says, okay, but they're only going to put up half of it. So the state budgets $200,000 and then those three organizations have to raise the other $200,000.
Meghan Doherty:And this is in 1926, 7, 8. They come to this agreement and they have a pretty firm deadline. Eight they come to this agreement and they have a pretty firm deadline. If they haven't raised the money you know in in 28, then they're going to. You know, they sort of lose their option on the state, would lose their option on it, and then they would just go ahead and sell to to a timber company, and so there's a really tight time crunch on it because there's this sort of time crunch on the on the deal.
Meghan Doherty:And so they raise the other $200,000 in 1927-28, and they do it by, kind of metaphorically, selling the trees. They say, okay, 6,000 acres, we have 200,000 trees and we'll sell them each for a dollar. So for one dollar you could buy a tree in Franconia Notch. You couldn't cut it down but you could go visit it and they school kids, you know, sent in pennies, nickels, you know whole classrooms would get together and buy a tree together. There was a photograph in the Union Leader of a four-year-old boy who was the youngest person to buy a tree and they managed to do it and so that, and then in 1928, it was dedicated as the Franconia Notch State Park and War Memorial and State Park, and so that was part of it too was it was designed as a memorial park to the fallen New Hampshire soldiers in World War I.
Meghan Doherty:So that was part of their fundraising and their kind of plans from the beginning. And the old man was huge for their efforts, for their messaging, for the kind of iconography of their fundraising campaigns. They put together these really amazing composite photographs with the old man of the mountain and the slope, all of Cannon Mountain, basically clear cut and just like slash, just slash and burn. It wasn't even a kind of neat clear cut, it just you know, all this slash and just like this is the worst case scenario and if you don't help, this is what's going to happen. It was very, very compelling narrative that that they put together because they'd seen it happen in other parts of the White Mountains and like we can't, we can't let this happen to the old man.
Dan Egan:You know it's a great story because even today, you know, often the narrative today is we're destroying the planet and we're not doing great things. But in a way we've been good stewards, I think, in New Hampshire overall in general, and this is really a good sort of one of those early victories for people standing up for the state and the natural beauty of it and putting their stake in the ground and saying, not here, not in our state. Yeah, it's pretty exciting. And of course that became the foundation for Cannon Mountain. And boy, how many lives have been transformed through the skiing or just riding up the tram in the fall during foliage. It's fascinating. And so I think you know, you have this idea where, you know there's artistry, there's poems, there's photographs. This thing is being saved and now old man kind of takes on a life, right, it sort of takes on a legend.
Dan Egan:And of course Route 3 was built. How does that transform into 93? And how do the Route 3 and 93 exist? I'll tell you, when I first moved up to the state I was getting frustrated because I couldn't figure out what happened to the highway. I would get off looking I'm like, how come I'm off the highway? I didn't know I was on Route 3. And back then the exits were different numbers and a couple of times I'd turn around, so it wasn't even clear as from a newbie what the situation was.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, I think that we could accurately date when you moved to New Hampshire from that statement.
Meghan Doherty:So what? So the proposal when they sort of expanded the interstate system, is that you know it was going to, they were going to connect through New Hampshire, right, and you were going to end up in Littleton and there was an initial assessment done that said the Old man Mountain will be fine. And then, as they started building it, people were like wait, no, we can see the writing of the wall, we can see how these things are going to line up. You can't put three lane highway through Franconia Notch, like that's a terrible idea. And so, again, Forest Society, amc, lots of concerned folks came together and said this is not, this is not in keeping with the reason we have Franconia Notch State Park, right, it's not to have people blow through it at 70 miles an hour. You're missing the point of having the park, of having the park. And so they it kind of paused, was, you know, went to court there. You know they they had to stop working, and so that sounds like it's when you moved here, right, it like made its way to Plymouth, you know, to Thornton. They investigated all these possible ways, excuse me that it could go around, but all of them were financially impossible. And so you know again, these sort of interested groups.
Meghan Doherty:The state, the Department of Transportation, you know, figured out this compromise that is the parkway, and part of that compromise was they also had to do a kind of more detailed environmental impact assessment before they would go forward with the plan.
Meghan Doherty:And so what we end up with is a unique stretch of road, because it's the only section of interstate that's one lane in each direction, and they had to have a special law passed that said that it was okay for this section of the interstate to be a parkway, because it didn't fit with the definition, the sort of federal definition, of what an interstate was, because it wasn't two lanes, it wasn't, you know, high speed moving people. And there were a lot of, you know, questions and concerns about how do we balance, you know what having that much flow of traffic would mean for the North Country with the concerns about the old man. And then there was like, well, if we destroy the old man in this, then we're destroying our tourism economy, and then you haven't sure we can get more semi-trucks through, but we aren't going to have any tourists.
Meghan Doherty:So what's the point of having a big highway if no one will come because you've destroyed the old man? So it was another great, you know example where these concerned citizens and organizations come together and say we care too much about this spot in the world to let this happen.
Dan Egan:It's amazing. It's so amazing and you know, when I think of the old man and standing there and looking at it and it watching over us right all the time, the justification, the just positioning of that, that it's looking after us in the park and going through it, slowing us down, making us think about it. Of course there were businesses on the other side of the notch that consider it a choke point that you know. With just an additional 12 feet that could have made it two lanes and didn't. And, having worked in the ski industry, one owner in particular up in Bretton Woods, herb Boynton, was never happy about that 12 feet. He really felt it affected his business, as I think other people north of the notch did, and it became. It just shows you the economic driver of transportation and sort of a balance that I think we're a little bit more comfortable with today. Would you say that?
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, and I think you know someone asked me early on this summer well, now that the old man's gone, are they going to make the interstate bigger? I was like, well, I think everybody really kind of likes the slowdown, even without the old man. The reason to slow down is still there. Slow down is still there, right, it's still this splendid stretch of road to really see the wonder of the White Mountains. And you know, that huge cliff is still there, right, it doesn't have a face on the end of it, but it's still a really stunning rock formation. And then you look up on the other side and see Eagle Cliff and you know, like, just, I think that the look up on the other side and see Eagle Cliff and you know, like, just I think that the, even without the old man, I think there's still an interest in preserving that landscape.
Meghan Doherty:And the you know the plans for the three-lane highway involved filling Echo Lake and Profile Lake so that you could fit all that highway Right, and that now I can't imagine anyone agreeing to that. No, I mean, I think when they made that plan I'm not sure that the EPA existed. So you know, there were maybe fewer roadblocks, yeah, but I at least haven't heard anything about. Well, now we should make 93 bigger.
Dan Egan:No, thank goodness.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah.
Dan Egan:Thank goodness. So you know, sometime in around what the 1950s, 1960s there's this effort to preserve the old man. They go up there. Talk me through that history of realizing that, wow, we're lucky to have him and he might not last.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah.
Meghan Doherty:So the he might not last, starts even in the 1870s. Wow. So in a geology book about New Hampshire, charles Henry Hitchcock in 1878 says if you want to see this, you better get up there. So even then there was this thought that it was precarious, and the first efforts to kind of hold it together happened while it was still in private ownership. So Charles Greenleaf, the owner of the Profile House, had a quarryman from Quincy, massachusetts, come up and look at it and he said, yeah, this seems precarious and I think I can help you out. So Edward Geddes was the quarryman's name. And so in 1916, he came up and put the first kind of turnbuckles that held the forehead block. So if you kind of think back to the old man, right, there was that clear, strong forehead and that was the part they thought was the most precarious because it was the most cantilevered. And so he put in these turnbuckles in 1916 that kind of allowed them to pull that back in a little and then to also measure it. And so then he came back a number of times into the 1920s to check on it, make sure it was still looking okay.
Meghan Doherty:And then in 1958, the state decided to make a pretty substantial intervention and put in some bigger tie rods and turnbuckles and this kind of non-porous cap across this one crack, and so that you know that work was done in 58.
Meghan Doherty:And then in the 1960s, niels Nielsen, who many will remember, he had been working in the bridge part of transportation and he kind of took over and became the sort of unofficial and then official caretaker of the old man of the mountain and then he would go up every summer to check on it, to check on the things they put in, make sure everything was still stable, still there, and it became a family affair. So his son, david, also went up. His daughter-in-law, deb we have a great photograph of her in the exhibition over the side of the old man checking on a crack that was kind of further down. And they went every year and actually I remember being a kid in elementary school and our teacher rolling in the TV so that we could watch them up there and watch them having pizza delivered by helicopter to the Nielsen's up on the Old man of the Mountain.
Meghan Doherty:So I feel like Niels Nielsen and his gold hard hat were kind of another staple of the sort of visual culture of the old man, for sure.
Dan Egan:You know I never knew there was a cap. I never knew that they went to that. You know, I always thought Disney could have recreated the, the face for us, but that that would have been along those lines. So they did. They had a non-porous cap.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, there was a space that was maybe it was they set cinder blocks, so it was maybe eight inches wide that they kind of put this roof over because they, you know, rightly thought that the water infiltration behind those cantilevered rocks was going to lead to its downfall and so but you know, it's this complex cliff system they couldn't keep all the water out and so, you know, in the end it wasn't enough, but they definitely tried.
Dan Egan:They definitely tried and it was important to try to keep the old man going. I mean May 3rd 2003,. I know where I was when you know before this really it's early days for the internet was when you know before this really it's early days for the internet. So it was still the newspaper and the new channel nine and it was devastating. Did you go up?
Meghan Doherty:I went up oh, I was living in chicago at the time and so actually I got a phone call from my aunt which panicked me because I you know we're close enough.
Meghan Doherty:But we don't talk regularly on the phone, and we definitely didn't. Then when I was, you know, living in Chicago, going to college or whatever, and I thought something had happened to one of my parents, right, because why else is my aunt calling, and you know, in the middle in the morning, on a whatever day of the week it was. And it turned out she'd seen it, she was living in Ohio at the time and she'd seen it on the news and called to be like did you hear? The old man fell and I was like, oh my gosh, I thought my parents had like been in a car crash, like so for me I was like relieved that it wasn't a family emergency.
Meghan Doherty:So I can't I kind of can't separate that like relief that my parents were OK from from finding out about the old man. But yeah, she'd seen it on the news and then I saw it the next day. It was on the front cover of the Chicago Tribune.
Dan Egan:I mean just shows you the impact of a state icon that it was national news when the old man fell and to go up there that day was somber. It was a quiet day. There had been some fog the night before and overcast, and some of those rocks had come all the way down to the bike path, the bridle path there, and people were speechless. You must hear stories about that.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, yeah, and I've also heard stories about folks who you know had gone through the notch in the morning to various meetings. There was a big meeting at the Mount Washington Observatory that folks had gone up for. I think there was maybe another big event at Bretton Woods that day and all these folks had driven through but it was still foggy, it was still, you know, overcast, and then you know it wasn't until the way back that they found out, or some of them, the folks who were at the observatory. They found out about it during their board meeting and other folks have told me they were. I think it was the kind of maybe the annual meeting of New Hampshire Historical Society the same day and the meeting just kind of dissolved when someone called to tell them that it had happened and everyone just in shock.
Dan Egan:In shock, it was gone. In shock, it was gone. The image on the quarter, the image on the license plate, the image on the highway signs was gone. The old man that had been the steward of the birth of tourism, state parks, national forests, was gone. I think the impact of that still vibrates today.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, for sure, and for sure I mean people coming in and you know, even still being like I, just it seems like yesterday that that kind of grief is still near the surface for some. That it just was kind of shattering yeah.
Dan Egan:And God's great glory that we're able to see this face. Everything was perfect about it the angle of which you could see it, the angle of which the cantilevers and the rocks leaned downhill all these years to be enjoyed. It's a fascinating thing, as grand as the Grand Canyon.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, yeah, I mean I, you know I thought it was pretty remarkable, as a kid for sure, and you know it just had such ripples in our state culture.
Dan Egan:I think the stats on visitors to Franconia National State Park is greater than some of our biggest national parks. Have you heard that? Do you have any?
Meghan Doherty:biggest national parks. Have you heard that? Do you have any? I do know that the old man was a big part of visitation to that whole area and they saw a big drop in visitors after in that first. You know, 10 years after it fell um, and I I think that they've they found um. You know, in the last 10 years since they built the memorial plaza that the kind of visitor numbers are are coming back up and that, you know, people are coming back up.
Meghan Doherty:And part of that, you know, in recent years I think, has to do with being outside doing outdoors things, when indoors things didn't feel so great mountain that there's so much beauty in that small. You know, all things considered, 6 000 acres isn't that big when you think about the scale of the national forest. Or you know, the grand canyon, probably the grand canyon goes through more than 6 000 acres, um. And so I think people are also starting to realize that there's so much more that you can go and see there, you can go and do there. There's, you know, with the tram, with the flume, with the basin, with the profile plaza that they've built down there, where you can at least have that moment of recognition, of kind of realization when you line your feet up just right in the plaza and look up at the profiler and you know, sure it's not the same, but you do get a little of that like whoa, there's a face on the rock. That that you used to get.
Dan Egan:You know, driving by, yeah, I think maybe as a tourism made us better having to display the, the, the things that are there from the flume on up that make it special. And of course you know the view of Franconia south of the notch is different from the view of Franconia from north of the notch, and that's sort of the beauty of Sugar Hill, right, it's a. It's the beauty of being up in Bethlehem and seeing it from all angles really make it something. And seeing it from all angles really make it something. And I just think the old man has yet to move into mythic or legend Because in our minds it's still here.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, I still look up.
Dan Egan:Yeah, you still look up, Still look up. That's great, and your kids?
Meghan Doherty:Yeah. So we actually drove through Franconia Nage today and my daughter, who's 11, was like, so is that where the old man was? And I was like, yes, yes, that's where it was. We were passing Cannon, coming south on through through Franconia Notch. So we still talk about it. I mean, obviously it's like, well, this is what mommy does for work, so we talk about it, but it's still in our stories for sure.
Dan Egan:The 20-year anniversary of the falling of the old man here at the Museum of the White Mountains, and you're the steward of that. What an experience to have this display. What are some of your memories now of the summer, of people sharing their experience and enjoyment of this amazing display? Sharing their experience and enjoyment of this amazing display.
Meghan Doherty:Yeah, it's been great and it's great to be able to talk with folks who remember driving up Route 3 before 93.
Meghan Doherty:And you know you could stop anywhere along it and you know, have a picnic and just the kind of slower pace that you used to have before the parkway.
Meghan Doherty:And you know it's really helped me to think about maybe I should just go 45 on the parkway that there is a lot to see there and even without the old man, you know I've been looking, you know, a lot more at Eagle Cliff and that side and thinking about just how, you know, stunning the cliffs are in this little stretch of road.
Meghan Doherty:I mean, you see so much the kind of birth of the old man from a volcanic standpoint and from, you know, thinking about 200 million years ago, 180 million years ago, and thinking about how these granite outcrops allow us to understand how our continent formed, understand how our continent formed right, and that the White Mountain Magma series, which I'd never heard of before this talk, is such a draw for geologists and you know people who are studying plate tectonics and how the continents form, that this set of cliffs is a huge site of scientific research even today and continues to be, and as new technologies develop, they're still learning more, and so it's been really fascinating to think about it both as this rock formation with a long history, but also as a piece of this area that is so special for so many reasons and that, you know, kind of continues to remind us.
Meghan Doherty:Right. The White Mountains themselves continue to remind us of all the ways that they're not like anywhere else, and so it's been a real pleasure talking with folks coming in and hearing the stories they have to tell, and also just continuously learning more about the White Mountains from our speakers, from our visitors, from our exhibitions. There's just always more to learn.
Dan Egan:And in that learning for you and all these different touch points, what's your takeaway? What's your?
Meghan Doherty:takeaway that this is an amazing spot in the world, that you know we may not be the biggest state, we may not be the best known state, we may get confused with other states that are shaped like triangles that are near us, but it's really a remarkable spot in the world and aren't we so lucky to have it as our backyards? Because there's really nothing else like it.
Dan Egan:Oh, megan, I couldn't agree more and I know the listeners of the 603 agree with that thought that we live in a special spot and the old man still looking after us. Yeah, thanks for joining us on the 603. Thanks for having me. Thanks for joining us on the 603.
Meghan Doherty:Thanks for having me.
Dan Egan:Hey, thanks for listening to the 603 Podcast with me, dan Egan. Make sure you check out our website at 603podcastcom. Please support the sponsors that make this show possible for more stories, tales and exploration of the Granite State.
