603Podcast with Dan Egan

True Crime Travel Guide: Dawn Barclay On Dark Tourism Across New Hampshire And Beyond

• The people places of New Hampshire, Hosted by Dan Egan • Season 2 • Episode 6

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Dan Egan sits down with author and travel writer Dawn Barclay to explore how she transforms New England’s most gripping true crime stories into  planned road trips. Dawn’s new series, Vacations Can Be Murder, maps cases across New Hampshire and the region with exacting research, stories, and a surprising amount of care for the living.

Dawn explains the difference in crime patterns from Maine to Massachusetts, and what gives New Hampshire’s cases their distinct voice. From the Smuttynose to James Colbert murders, she traces how landscapes shape stories—and how stories, in turn, shape travel.

If you’re curious about dark tourism done right, you’ll find practical insights here: respectful itineraries, further reading to deepen context, and victim resources embedded throughout. 

Press play to rethink true crime through the lens of place and history on this spooky Halloween episode of the 603podcast. 

More on the Vacations Can Be Murder can be found here. Stay up to date on all of Dawn Barclay's work on her site. 

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Dan Egan:

Welcome back to season two of the 603 Podcast, where we cover all things in Hampshire, from true crime and covered bridges to epic mountain marathons. We're excited to share another season of unique perspectives from across the granite state with you. I'm your host, Dan Egan, and this is the 603 Podcast. The 603 Podcast is sponsored by Matt River Coffee, celebrating 20 years of roasted coffee, legendary egg sandwiches, meals to go, and live music right off of exit 28 on Highway 93 in Canton Man. It's also sponsored by Alpine Adventures, New England's premier thrill destination. Alpine Adventure has it all. Visit AlpineZipline.com and let the adventure begin. Looking for summer fun? Whalesdale Water Park, New England's favorite splash spot, is your place. Whalesdale Water Park, where the fun never ends. Visit Walesdalewaterpark.net today. Our guest this week on the 603 is Don Barclay. She's an accomplished author and travel writer, and an award-winning author. She's a longtime podcast veteran. And she writes true crimes, paranormal, and cemetery tales on New Hampshire and beyond. And her books will stop you dead in your tracks. Don, welcome to the 603.

Dawn Barclay:

I'm doing well. Thanks very much for having me.

Dan Egan:

Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you and uh fascinated to dive into this. It's a little bit of a new topic for me. I'm a I can be a little bit of a news junkie. I uh I'm I'm always up for the details of things. Um but I'm curious, how does how does an author find their way into this topic? What uh what hooked you?

Dawn Barclay:

The fact that it this this view of true crime had never been written before. And as an author, you're always looking for the hook, the angle that hasn't been written about. Uh so somebody will actually buy your books. So um no one had really written true crime up as a um travel guide. And so this is the New England is the first of a multi-volume series I'm writing called Vacations Can Be Murder. Uh, this one will be Vacations Can Be Murder, a true uh true crime lover's travel guide to New England. And it covers all six states in New England.

Dan Egan:

Nice vacations can be murder.

Dawn Barclay:

Yeah.

Dan Egan:

I love that. Okay. There's a lot of different uh a lot of families and uh are shaking up it up and shaking their head, going, yeah, I relate to that. Um so so amazing. Of course, you know, New Hampshire, uh New England, we we just have a rich history anyways, right? I mean it's it's it's it dates back. And how far back do you go? Uh and and how does it how does history and the place draw into these stories and what you choose?

Dawn Barclay:

Well, I um New England was a little easier than when you get down to New York where you know you had to have four or five murders before I could include you. It could be a little less picky in uh like Vermont and New Hampshire, and especially Maine, because there were, thank God, there's not as much horrible crime. There is some, but it's not as prolific as it is when you get further south. Um, I go pretty far back. I mean, I'm I'm just looking through the I've got um 1754. Wow, I've got a story dating back from 1754 in Hampton Falls, which was uh now South Seabrook. I've got 1875 for uh Joseph LaPage. Um and yeah, Ruth Blaise, 1768. So I do have some older stories.

Dan Egan:

Is it always intrigue, you think, that brings people to the popularity of this? Is it sort of like the whodunit or the circumstances, or is each one just so different that they just it goes in different directions?

Dawn Barclay:

Um New Hampshire had a lot of really interesting stories um that were kind of different. Um, you know, you get a sort of personality for like Rhode Island, there's a lot of um mobster activity. Um, I think Pennsylvania had a lot of mass shootings. And and there's a lot of variety in New Hampshire, I'm glad to say, and a lot that dated back and was older. Um I think I did grab some sensational stories because I think that sells, but I also have stories that just interested me. Uh and I figured if they interested me because they were kind of different, they might interest other people as well. So the point of the book is I'm giving you almost the exact address. If you want to stand in the place where these horrible things happened, because you want to feel like you were part of it. Um, and I believe there are people, a lot of people based on when I speak about the books that want to feel like they were there. Uh or they want to go to the grave sites and pay respect. Um I don't give the exact street numbers for private homes because I don't feel that's right, but I'll tell you the block number, like the 100 block, and you can drive along. But I don't want people gawking outside of homes. Um, if it's an apartment building or um or a building that's a uh a business where something happened, I'm giving you the address because I feel that's fair game.

Dan Egan:

It's uh it's interesting uh that the idea of uh sort of going to a spot, feeling it, feeling a part of it. I've done that. Um parts of different history. Did you do it? Did you go to all these locations?

Dawn Barclay:

I have not, I think that that would be physically impossible because I'm doing the whole country. Okay, but I am doing a terrific amount of research. Um, I mean, I've got 500 bibliographical items. And I when I do travel, I do stop in some of the places like uh I was in Pennsylvania recently and I went to the Eastern State Penitentiary. So I'm as I travel, and hopefully I'll do book tours and things, I will go and visit. And do when I was recently in um Nashville, I took a true crime tour. So I'm doing as much as I can.

Dan Egan:

And have you had an experience? Have you gone somewhere and felt something or felt rooted, or it it gave you a sense of the place in the what the event?

Dawn Barclay:

Um no. I mean, I think some of the true crime tours are sort of I'm not so sure that they're not sort of making things up a little. I think you get a great, great feeling for the history of the place, but when they show you a picture that's supposed to have a ghost, I I didn't really see the ghost in there.

Dan Egan:

Well, that's honest, Don.

Dawn Barclay:

That's good. I kind of feel that the ghost I encounter are the ones that knew me.

Dan Egan:

I love that. And um, you know, it the these are stories that are full of emotion. Um, and you know, they're sort of always a tug there. And I I just wondered what you've learned about yourself by telling these stories. How what have you discovered?

Dawn Barclay:

But I don't get affected that way. To me, it's this is a job, and so I'm not getting caught up in it as much as someone, obviously, who knew the people.

Dan Egan:

Yeah, that's great.

Dawn Barclay:

Stepping lightly when I do podcasts of recent, you know, talking about recent events, because some of the people that were related to those people are probably still alive.

Dan Egan:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Dawn Barclay:

One of the things I did in this book um is um I added a section at the end of each chapter with victim resources. Because I could see that some people could feel that this was an exploitative book, and I did not want it to be. I wanted to be people learning history and people traveling and having being able to feed into their interests of true crime while they're traveling. But I also thought, God forbid something happens to you. This is where you can go for help. So I feel it's a helpful resource book as well.

Dan Egan:

Yeah, there's a lot of need for healing on trauma, right? And uh and and these things can kind of trigger trauma. Sometimes people read it because of their own past experience. And and and different people are searching for different things, right?

Dawn Barclay:

Sure. And I've tried to I I've stuffed so much into every chapter. I feel like I've, if you want to know where people are in jail or used to be in jail, I'm giving you those addresses. I'm telling you where they are. If you want to see where they're buried, I'm giving you that. If you want to read more, because I can only summarize each crime in a short amount of space, I give you more resources about where you can read more. Um lots of information on the attractions, and I try to be very comprehensive.

Dan Egan:

And and you know, I I find cemeteries interesting um because they really mark history, right? I mean, it it's it's in front of you. Um you you you you get a sense of dates, there's messages to, you know, people leave on tombstones and things, and and and some are visited. And so cemeteries give give me a sense of of place and a sense of time and a pr sense of history. Uh do you find that that that's true that people are curious about specific sites because it you almost get to know somebody by going or or learn a bit?

Dawn Barclay:

Uh yeah, I I do I mean there's a whole category of travelers that are tombstone travelers. Um, I mean, I think they have over 60,000 people on a Facebook group just for that. It might be actually more like 100,000. Um necrotourism, same thing. It's all part of dark tourism. This is all a subset of dark tourism, which people are really gravitating to with the woman true crime. Um I think there's also a category of people who love going past jails. And there are actually jails where um they have programs uh that are training some of the younger people who are about to convicts who are about to get out in food management. And you can go to a restaurant that's run by the prisoners and and eat, and um you feel like you're helping with rehabilitation.

Dan Egan:

Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Of course, landscape and culture tell a bit of history and and shape shape people, shape our actions, shape our environments. And when you did the New Hampshire portion, did you feel there was there was that piece of it, uh maybe a Yankiness or uh a New England or a New Hampshire feel to the story that made it special different?

Dawn Barclay:

I I feel like it's not surprising to me that the stories in New Hampshire were a little bit different and very interesting. I think the people are very interesting and have a definite viewpoint of, you know, leave me alone and I'm gonna do things the way I do them. There's a lot of individualism.

Dan Egan:

Yeah, I think you know, all of New England has that within our states, right? There we there is a uniqueness to each state, uh, particularly, you know, I because I live here, I I see it uh between Vermont and New Hampshire, I see it between New Hampshire and Maine. Uh there is a difference. Um there's a political difference, there's a point of view difference. Um and I guess sadly there's a crime difference on on murder.

Dawn Barclay:

When you're talking about Massachusetts versus Maine, yeah, you have a quite a bit difference.

Dan Egan:

Yeah, huge, huge. Um I I I really wild. So um vacations can be murder. Uh uh and and how did you how did you come up with that title?

Dawn Barclay:

You know, it's so funny you're asking me because I was just thinking about it as as I mentioned it to you. I I had a totally different name for the book, and I was just walking my dog one day, and I was thinking, it just hit me. And so I raced back and called my wrote to my um publisher and said, This is the title, and and she agreed. So uh yeah, I I love I'm very punny. Not really in these books, but in my in my novels, I can be very punny. And I I just like I like the uh whole idea of the title.

Dan Egan:

Yeah. Uh, you know, you mentioned earlier that uh you like research, uh, it kind of draws you in. Uh is that sort of the journey for you finding clues and seeing it go from one place to another? Describe that for us and how that unveil itself.

Dawn Barclay:

Yeah, I mean, to me, the whole point of the book is finding those addresses. I'm really good. I like, um it's like I like consignment stores because it's like a treasure hunt. Yeah. So this is sort of like I want to find the address. And you're going through newspapers.com and I might go through 10 articles about the same murder just to find the address. And I'm looking for like the offbeat addresses, like someone who didn't pay their rent and and they left that town. I was like, hmm, how am I gonna find that? I want to know what that apartment is. I think people want to go to some of the other places that they the people had something to do with. They don't want just the murder site, they want to sort of get into their lives. Where did they work? So I might include things like that in a couple of the stories. But there was one where a guy had not paid his rent, and I wanted, and I knew the name of the ex-wife, and I knew one of the neighbors' names, and I was able through some software I use for real estate, I was able to track down and figure out the address of where he had left and not paid his rent. And you know, I I mention it in the book, and I say this is where it is assumed to be. This is my research.

Dan Egan:

Yeah.

Dawn Barclay:

Uh so people don't think because it was in none of the newspapers. So I don't want people to think it's definitely fact, but it had a strong feeling that that's the address. So I I like I like the investigation part. Yeah.

Dan Egan:

So when when's our when's our release?

Dawn Barclay:

But first one comes out in February of 2025, and that'll be New England. The second one comes out in August of 2025, and that will be New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey, which was supposed to be six states, but because there's so much crime in those three states, I I had to cut and throw the rest of those states to the mid-Atlantic um book. And I had to leave out all of Western New York because there was so much crime between the capital region of New York and Long Island, just in that area.

Dan Egan:

Wow. This idea that true crime and paranormal tourism is growing in popularity. Um what are people searching for really? What do you think is driving it?

Dawn Barclay:

I I that's a great question. Uh, because I know it's booming, but I can't tell you this the psychology. I mean, maybe people want to have a connection to reality as opposed to fiction. Yeah, I think it's soft tourism, but it ties into history and it feeds whatever, you know, they were watching it on TV. Yeah. And it feeds into that. Now I can go there, and it's something they haven't done before. So, but I'm finding some, let's try to find some of the stories that maybe aren't covered so much in uh the true crime. I I don't know if there are that many left because I think there's so many shows. I was at Crime Con earlier this year, it was in Nashville, and um, you know, the 5,000 true crime lovers and all these people from the podcast speaking, and um a lot of the victims' family speaking is very interesting. So I'm used to um mystery writers and thriller writers conventions as opposed to anything true life. It was it's very, very cool. And those people love traveling. I mean, they had such an interest in this set of books, which was great.

Dan Egan:

There's a bit, I think, of human nature that wants to connect to the past uh through real events. And that's why things that happen in historic locations, whether it's the White Mountains or the sea coast, right? Or, you know, it makes it a little bit more interesting, right? If if you like going to Newport and you like the beach in Rhode Island, then you know, and something happened there, it's gonna catch your attention, right?

Dawn Barclay:

Um and a lot of things happened there.

Dan Egan:

A lot of things happened there, right? A lot of things happened there.

Dawn Barclay:

Uh and then restaurants. There's a lot restaurants where people were shot outside restaurants, or hotels where people were shot inside hotels, and and they kind of want to be there. I mean, you go to the Chelsea Hotel in New York, that's where Sid Bishous was uh died, or at least he had an apartment there. I don't think he actually died there. Um, but that's where Nancy, his girlfriend, was killed. So people want to say that they stayed there.

Dan Egan:

Yeah.

Dawn Barclay:

I I think it would be interesting to stay at the Liberty Hotel in Boston because it was the Charles Street prison.

Dan Egan:

And it's fascinating in there. Yeah, it is. It it's a great uh drop-in there. The the the restaurant and the bar is pretty cool too. And uh, you know, as a kid growing up around there, you know, you kind of looked at the walls and said, I never want to go in, you know, like I don't want to end up in the Charles Street, you know, and uh yeah, so you know, it has that sense of place too. Uh so that that curiosity factor. And you know, I I I'm just a fan of tourism. I love that people get out and get after it and and find their place. Um, you know, what do you find is a practical tip, you know, or designing an itinerary for going to New Hampshire or in northern New England? Uh do you try and, you know, do you have have any tips for pulling that all together, or just is the book designed to take you?

Dawn Barclay:

I've got all these categories through the book. So you're going to um the hotels or the restaurants or the you know, um the museums or whatever, then I have a whole section where I've broken up the state into three or four different itineraries where I bring everything together and I've sort of mapped it out for you. You know, go east to this place, go west to that. I can read an example for you if you like, but I thought that would make it, I think that's the most unique part of the book.

Dan Egan:

Oh, I'd love to have you read it. Yeah, feel free to read an example of that. That'd be awesome.

Dawn Barclay:

So, what I do is in the um in the main summaries, I talk about the murders or the crimes. I will give the in the itinerary section, I'm giving the addresses so that there's not so much repetitive. So um here's an example, southeastern New Hampshire. Start your tour of South I Southeastern New Hampshire in Rockingham County in Wyndham. Stop for lunch at the Wyndham Restaurant at 59 Range Road, which is said to be haunted, then continue north to Derry, where Pamela Smart's husband, Gregory, Greg in parentheses, uh, was murdered at the Summerhill condominiums on Misty Morning Drive, supposedly by William Billy Flynn, at the behest of Pamela Smart, who had seduced him. Smart is buried at Forest Hill Cemetery on Cemetery Road. Drive northeast to Kingston and grab a bite with apparitions at the Kingston 1686 house at 127 Main Street and then head north to Epping, where Sheila Labar inherited a 115-acre farm on the 0 to 100 uh area of Red Oak Hill Lane and tortured, then murdered developmentally disabled young men who she insisted were pedophiles. The Walmart at 35 Fresh River Road is where witnesses saw her pushing one of her victims in a wheelchair. And it goes on from there.

Dan Egan:

That's amazing. I mean, right there, it makes you want to get in the car and go. And that's at the end of the chapter. How do the beginning of the chapters unfold?

Dawn Barclay:

The beginning of the chapter, I talk about um first I tell you what how how crime-ridden the state is. Um, where in New Hampshire it's pretty not crime written. It's a pretty safe state.

Dan Egan:

Yay.

Dawn Barclay:

Um, and it it actually has the least amount of crime in the country other than name.

Dan Egan:

Oh, way to go, New Hampshire.

Dawn Barclay:

Yeah, there you go. So um after that, I have the um the summaries where I'm talking about dates and the actual stories, but highly summarized because I don't have space for so many. They wanted me to keep these books under 75,000 words.

Dan Egan:

Wow.

Dawn Barclay:

Um, then I have the list of books that you can read more about. So anything I've mentioned in the summaries, I've tried to find at least one book that covers it. And then I found books that cover things that I didn't have room to cover. Then I have accommodations and restaurants that are either crime and justice related or haunted. Um, and then I have attractions like museums and uh the tours, crime tours and haunted tours, and then the prisons. So you can drive by if you want to see where people were buried, and I list who uh that I've mentioned are imprisoned or were in prison there, then um burial sites, and then the itineraries, and then the victim resources.

Dan Egan:

Did you do much with capital punishment? I know in in Dover, New Hampshire, uh Howard Long was executed uh in the 1930s. Tell me about that and and how does uh how does death row fit in here?

Dawn Barclay:

Um I just mentioned it. Like I'll read from Concord, New Hampshire State Prison for Men. I give the address, the state's oldest prison facility. It's equipped to accept maximum, medium, and minimum security prisoners. Best known inmates included Howard Long, who was executed here, as well as James J. Parker and Robert W. Tullock, who murdered um Hath and Susan Zantop, who were professors. Uh, and I include that story. Parker has since been paroled.

Dan Egan:

You know, in in Concord, 1991, James Colbert killed his wife and three daughters, and then attempted to jump off the Tobin Bridge. Did he was he was he on was he being chased, or how did he end up on the Tobin Bridge?

Dawn Barclay:

I think he just wanted to kill himself because I think he was not happy that he had done that. I can read you that section.

Dan Egan:

Yeah.

Dawn Barclay:

On October 19th, 1991, James Colbert, 39, strangled his wife, Mary Jane, who was 30 in bed, and smothered his three daughters, Patricia, 10 weeks, Emily, 2.5 years, and Elise 1.5, while they slapped. Colbert then drove to Boston and attempted to try jump off the Tolbon Bridge before being talked down by police and taken to Mass General for psychiatric evaluation. He confessed to the murders and pleaded insanity, insisting that a past sexual assault by an uncle clouded his ability to deal with the stress of being recently fired and his wife filing for divorce. He was sentenced to a life sentence without the possibility of parole. He unsuccessfully attempted suicide again while in jail and died in jail, reportedly of cancer 21 years later.

Dan Egan:

And so, you know, you I know you said earlier that the research kind of just makes you numb in a way. It's emotional with the kids, but uh it didn't bring you down? It didn't get you downed on.

Dawn Barclay:

You know, it's like I said, if it involves children, I get upset. But other than that, to me, it's history and it's a job.

Dan Egan:

Well, I guess in a way, in a way, you're you're you're you're a you're a storyteller about history, right? Um and and you're you're kind of telling the history of the place. Um you know, Smutty Nose, of course, is a famous brewery up here, but Smutty Nose Island. Uh you you want to tell us about that story. Yeah, tell us that story.

Dawn Barclay:

Um Fishergon and Matthew Hansett and Ivan Christensen on Smutty Nose Island. It's a leap. He sailed back to the house in early March of 1873 in order to rob the home while the men were away and the women were alone. Karen Christensen, asleep in the kitchen, awoke upon the intruder's entry. She was later found cut and battered, having been attacked with a chair. Marin Hontvet heard her sister's screaming and pulled her into a bedroom where two women, along with Karen's sister-in-law, Anneth Christensen, were trapped. They tried to escape through a downstairs window and the intruder killed Annette. I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing it wrong, with an axe, just after she reportedly screamed the name Lewis. Only Marin escaped, and in pursuing her, the killer left a size 11 bloody footprint in the snow. As the story goes, with $16 of stolen funds instead of the $500 he was hoping for, Wagner sailed back to Portsmouth and interacted with tenants at the Jobson boarding house where he was staying. He then traveled to Boston and based on Marin's account, was apprehended and sent back. Though he proclaimed his innocence until the day he died, he was tried and convicted in Maine, where he was executed by hanging on June 25th, 1875. The acts he supposedly used to kill an eth is on display at the Portsmouth Athenaeum, but his guilt has been challenged, and many consider this an unsolved crime. The house itself burned down in 1885.

Dan Egan:

And there you have it. Just a little bit of an open window, right? Just a little bit to think about and to ponder. And somewhat amazing, too, when you think back 1873, uh Salem, they'll track it down. I mean, really not the technology of today.

Dawn Barclay:

No. I really think again, I I admit these are short, very summarized stories, and that's why I include the list of books to read more, because I think this will pique people's interest. Yeah. And they'll read more before they go.

Dan Egan:

So the book, Vacation Can Be Murdered, released uh October here in 2025. And it's it's exciting. Of course, uh right around Halloween, uh, it's a great time to pick up and read the book and dive in and get on and plan your trip. It must be exciting and rewarding for you to see to be part of something that is booming like this, this industry, this genre, and to have discovered it yourself to be part of it as a business.

Dawn Barclay:

Yes. Um I I tend to look for unusual things. I wrote the first book about traveling with children with autism because none existed. I I like to find things that people need or want that haven't been done, and then I sort of jump on them. And how many books have you written? I'm actually working on my 13th. Um I'm working writing three books right now. Um I'm working on 13, 14, and 15 right now. Um, I'm editing anthologies for one publisher. I'm writing these for another. The vacation's gonna be murder. And I might be writing one of those binge watcher guides, um, which I can't talk about until I actually sign a contract, which I'm waiting on. And then I squeeze in fiction here and there.

Dan Egan:

So you're bored. You're completely bored.

Dawn Barclay:

Very cool orange.

Dan Egan:

Wow, that's amazing. Well, Don Barkley, uh, author, travel writer, and uh the new series coming out, Vacation Can Be Murder. And uh thank you so much, Don. Pleasure to speak with you.

Dawn Barclay:

Thank you so much. It's been great.

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Dan Egan

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