Living Left

How are you Sleeping?

• Ann-Marie Burton, Tanya Garcia • Season 1 • Episode 5

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We rethink sleep by peeling back routine, hormones, family schedules, and the shame that surrounds night owls and early risers. We land on a practical, compassionate take: build life around your rhythm when you can, and stack small tools when you can’t.

• how daylight saving exposes fragile routines
• small kids vs teens as different sleep disruptors
• hormones, HRT, magnesium, and deeper sleep
• two chronotypes and why both can thrive
• screens, midnight productivity, and boundaries
• environmental tweaks for noise and light
• naps, the 20-minute window, and nappuccino
• school start times and workplace flexibility
• shifting from sleep shame to outcomes

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SPEAKER_01:

This is Living Left, the raw space where we redefine success, purpose, and identity through honest, unfiltered conversation. We're navigating business, family, change, chaos, one left turn at a time. It's not about finding what's next. It's about owning what's left. Join us and let's go there.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi, Tanya. Hi, Anne Marie. How are you today? I'm great.

SPEAKER_01:

How did you sleep last night, Tanya?

SPEAKER_00:

Storm, that was gonna be my say. That's what I was gonna say. You beat me to it. Uh I slept actually very well last night in the countryside of Ireland. It's very quiet.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, you're away. You're not home. I'm away. Mm-hmm. I'm working over seats. Uh so I did actually sleep well. But I tend to go to bed later when I'm here. So you sleep in later.

SPEAKER_01:

Interesting. I can't later. I know. Daylight savings. Well, I was gonna not say, yeah, we'll get to that in a second. I was gonna say that our podcast just before was talking about how you wake up early and you have the same morning and your routine. So you sleep later when you're somewhere else. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

I do. Well, I was up early this morning, but I I find because I stay up later. So now I messed up. Yeah, so you're getting the same amount of sleep, but you're up later, so you get up later. Yeah, so my routine's off, so it's annoying me. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01:

How are you feeling today? Well, we're gonna talk about sleep. Anyone who's listening, they're like, uh, we're gonna try not to make it zzz boring. Like we're gonna try to talk a little bit because it was daylight savings time, so with it, we got into a little bit of a conversation about how daylight savings time, so it's fall back, so at least you get an extra hour, which feels better on the first night. But then now we're a day into it, and uh how about this? The nights are the well, you're a little bit ahead, but like when I went for a walk last night, it was like midnight at six o'clock. I'm like, oh man, so dark at night, so dark at night. So I guess in theory, that's supposed to make us sleepier and make us go to bed earlier, but I don't think in this world, modern world, that's happening. I don't think so either. Yeah, but I know for we have we anyway, so without we might talk about daylight savings time, sleep. Seems like in a lot of circles, friends are not getting sleep, doesn't matter what life stage they're in, right? Whether they have small kids and the sleep is being taken away from them by the small people. Um, I think what is not talked about is how big kids also take away your sleep. I think that's a big conversation in teenage circles. That is an interesting conversation. I think I lost a lot of sleep over the last few years, just waiting up and just the schedule is different. It's not just about sleep training little people and them. And then, and then there's like this fun thing called hormones that seems to disrupt a lot of people's sleep as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I don't know. So why don't we talk a little bit? I don't know. We're not sleep experts. So those people that don't know, you do have a sister who is a sleep expert.

SPEAKER_00:

I do, Alana McGinn, who we are going to invite back to give us some very good tools and tips. Um, she is a sleep expert, among other things, also divorce expert and stress management consultant. So she does a lot of things, but she originated and started in sleep um with her babies, uh, goodnight sleep site, and um, and now has evolved to really helping women across the board sleep better, um, both at a personal level, but also does corporate talks. Um, so we'll have her on so she can kind of tell us what we're doing wrong. More so what we could do better. Yeah. Um, and also I think what's important is just get a bit of an understanding as to why, you know, and I think women of our age, there's a lot more, it's a little more complicated than just, you know, you have small children, and of course you're not sleeping because they're not sleeping. Um, I think that there's a lot more um complication, as you mentioned, from a hormone standpoint, a stress management standpoint. I really like what you were saying about um when you have older kids. I wasn't prepared for that. I thought that because there's like this sweet spot when they're in their, what would you say? 7 to 12. Yeah. Where it's pretty regular and it's pretty consistent and everyone seems to be. Um, and activities are at a deal, you know, a regular time and just life per can it it just feels less up and down.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's busy, but they're actually home for bedtime, like a bedtime.

SPEAKER_00:

It's later, but it's not and you can tell them when to go to bed, and you can probably manage that a little bit better at a younger age as they hit their teens. There is, you know, the management of electronics and school and all of the stress that they're going through. And then, as you said, you go into later activities, later work, you know, shifts, parties. Like, I do not like to have people in my house. I used to like I love the idea of my kids having kids over. Um, but also I don't love that on a Saturday night because I'm I want to put I have to sleep in complete silence, complete darkness. I'm a light sleeper. So any amount of like creaking in any way. So that's why I it's you know, I I they're like, can we just have some friends over?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm like, oh it's gonna disrupt my sleep. So there's like so much to unpack in all of that. Okay, so like, okay, so let's let's just start. Let's talk about like general current sleep situation for you and me. Like, what is your normal sleep when you go to bed at night? Like on a nor when you're home, what is your normal routine? What is your normal routine?

SPEAKER_00:

I am in bed by 10. In bed lights out, uh, yeah, 10, 10, 15. In bed. In bed by 9.45, I'm walking upstairs. Wash my face, get into bed, scroll and or read. It's usually scrolling. Yes, I know, terrible, but whatever. And then lights out by 10 10. 10. And I I'm asleep. I sleep, I fall asleep immediately. That's not my issue. Then I wake up every two flipping hours to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_01:

Every two hours. That's disruptive. Yeah, that's and then can you get back to sleep when you go when you Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00:

And then I am part of the cra crew. It's like three o'clock in the morning, and like usually I can control. I'm not actually sleep, is like for me, I've always like gotten into bed and felt so safe and comfy. Like I know people for a fact, friends. And and if she's listening, she'll know who I'm talking about. Who and there's not just her, who like literally they don't fear sleep, but sleep is such an issue for them that it's not a like safe and comfy place. Like I get into bed and I'm like, oh my god, I'm safe now. I don't have to talk to anyone, I don't have to answer questions, I have no expectation. Like, I love it. I love my bed. Um, but now I'm the three o'clock, you wake up in the morning and it's like your to-do list starts at the top, like there's no pre-warning, and it takes me an hour to get back to sleep. So I force myself back to sleep and I'm asleep till usually seven. Then I'm up. Because I have no children, guys. When you have no children, you don't have to be up at five. I remember those times. Yes. But five o'clock every morning to get my workout in and get out the door by eight, you know, to get to an office.

SPEAKER_01:

So you think of your bed as a safe, cozy space is like so so interesting. I'm just listening. So first, so for comparison, first of all, I like I like my bed, I think it's comfortable, but I definitely don't get in there and like I'm like, it's like the next phase. So, so this is you would not, I don't think you look forward to your bed because you prolong you prolong sleep. Yes, so it's just interesting. I I think it's from years of the quiet time is in the night. Like before I had kids, I was in, I had a pattern, and I was probably in bed asleep by 11, say. And then whatever. I that shocks. My routine was normal. My routine was what, but it was a more regular schedule. Like I had to be at work at a certain time. So therefore, like I knew if I wasn't, so I was asleep by 11-ish. Then I had kids, and then for a decade, I was building my I had another business before left turn. Yeah. And so that was I had kids in the day or partially part of the day, and so I would have like a second shift. They would go to bed at like seven, and I would work until one o'clock in the morning, and that was like my work time, which completely probably dismantled the good sleep habits. And so I'm somewhere in the middle now, but I still find the night time quiet, and I feel like that's my time.

SPEAKER_00:

You feel safe in that moment, so you don't want to go to sleep.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because I'm like, oh, this is my time. And then what happens is as children and family get older and busier, that period of time gets later and later and later and later and later.

SPEAKER_00:

So right. You mean you don't have as much quiet time because they're around. Well, it used to be it was quiet at like 10.

SPEAKER_01:

Now it's quiet at midnight, or it's quiet at whatever. So I still there's like this period of time. So my regular weeknight routine is probably like if I'm in my bed with my pajamas on and I've done all my things and I'm reading my book and it's like before 11:15. Like I am, and who's kidding? It's never 11:15. But if it was 11, I later, you mean I would be, I'm high-fiving, like I'm congratulating myself. I'm like, look at you, what an adult you are. You're in your bed. Adulting. You're in your bed. Look at you. But then sometimes I try to trick myself like a toddler. Like, if you get in, you can read your book for this long, and you can do your things. So in the last That's why it is totally different. It's a trick. Like, I need to trick myself to get there. Uh, but I would say I've been trying really hard to turn my light up by midnight. Um, but that doesn't always happen. And sometimes if I'm reading, I really want to keep reading. But like last night I started, I was winding down and I went for a walk in the midnight darkness, and I had my shower last night, and I was in my pajamas, and then I was like, Well, I'm gonna read my book downstairs. So I sat in the family room, and then it was uh 10:30, 10:45. I was like, be an adult, go upstairs because you're gonna start to get tired of reading this book. So I went upstairs, and then the next thing I knew, it was like 11:45 when I was still I was like in the bathroom brushing my teeth. I'm like, I don't even know what happened to an hour. Like I just sort of lost it. I'm not quite sure.

SPEAKER_00:

So I believe strongly that there's the we are the um equivalent of two schools of people. Yeah, and I see it, you probably see it in no, but I think I don't think there's any other sorts. Like I actually think that you either That's why we're such good friends.

SPEAKER_01:

I know.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, because I see it in my kids. So so I believe it's like I again, I will say this on every podcast. I'm sure there's some science behind it. I don't know what the science is because I am not a someone to research, but I'm sure that there is something that tech clinically describes why people are one way versus the other. But here's my theory. Um, and I do think that it is in relation to cortisol levels and anxiety. I just think it is. I think that's a way people manage anxiety. I think there's an anxiety in both cases, but I think it's like how people manage it. So what you just described about like the evening and loving that protected space, everyone I talk to who talks about that and like loves that. Like my youngest kids love that she'll go to bed at like three o'clock in the morning. And just because that's her safe space of like no one's up, no one worries, uh, like no one asks any questions. It's her, and that's how she manages her whatever, like, you know, how am I gonna take on the day? I think there's that that type. And then for there's the others who go to bed because they're exhausted and they just the bed is a place, so that the morning is that safe space. Like I love a quiet morning, and I think there's just two sorts of people. Because exactly how you described it, even though I knew that about you, is what I have witnessed and seen. It's it goes one way or the other.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I do find there's triggers like to make me stay, like I do I do know now, like if I open my laptop at night, I'm up for hours longer. No, I know. So I also know I need to avoid, avoid certain things because my brain is I'll just keep going. Because I'll be like, I'll just I'll just go upstairs and look in the office for a minute, and then that will be 10 o'clock at night, and then boom, I've got two hours of massive productivity. So yeah, that's also tricky because it's very productive. But if I do that, then I'm for sure sacrificing sleep because then it will take me a lot longer to get it. Because you still have to get up when the rest of the world gets up. Yeah, but I am very productive at night, very productive at night. Um, but it's tricky because I have to, and I think it's also screen. Yeah, the blue screen is also like well, it's not good, not good. Um, but so let's talk about the fact that you're waking up at night because I so again, like I every woman waking up. I don't, I'm not waking up.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't wake up. No, I don't wake up at all. But well, that's because you're going to bed at one o'clock in the morning. So, like technically, oh, you don't wake up at all? You sleep all the way through. Yeah, you don't have to pee.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01:

And I drank a lot of water, like I drink a whole thing of water before like while I'm sitting there reading in my bed. Shocking to me. So magnesium, I started taking magnesium probably three years ago, and that is massive. Same. So that that majorly helps me. Same. But I find the same thing. I think if I wake up within a period of time in the first hour, if I wake up in the first hour, and it doesn't matter if I've been asleep for 15 minutes, then I'm done. Like it's gonna take me hours.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's a real thing. Like, and again, I'm sure Alana will be able to um corroborate this, but there is a thing that you either do a 20-minute nap or an hour and a half to do, not mess with your sleep cycle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So if I go to sleep, if I go to so this is what's disruptive. If I go to if I actually go to sleep early, because sometimes I do go to sleep earlier, and that almost always inconveniently coincides with people coming home late in my house. Sure. And they will and so then if I hear the door slam or whatever, then boom, I'm awake, and then it's it. So I will stay awake to circumvent all of that. Like I know I late for everybody to come home. So that's when we talked about phases in your life that are different. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I don't even know what it's like to have maybe more than three hours straight. Like I have not experienced that on the odd occasion. Like maybe I could count on my hand in the last 10 years. Really? Yeah, now I did just start uh hormone re well, not just, I've been on a few things to get me going on HRT, and I do dream a lot more. So that leads me to believe even in my two to three hours, I'm like deeper in sleep because my dreams are crazy right now. And have been before? No, because I don't think I was really sleeping. Like I'd have like an odd one and go, huh. You know, when you wake up and you're like, I can't really remember. Like now I'll wake up and I distinctly remember, like I know I was in that dream, and that's makes me feel like the younger version of myself. So the HRT I believe is interesting, helping in some regards, but it's not solving the pee problem. And I drink a lot of water too, but I'm up every oh, I have to pee all the time. No, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I I sleep through. That's amazing. But I as long as I'm not disrupted. So I have a noise machine, I don't put it on the channel. I was gonna say that I often do. I have like this little noise machine I've got two uh from Amazon, like it's a little two package, and they're little, like they're the size of an egg. And it's I should look at that. It's awesome. It was like 10 bucks, and you can take it with you anywhere, and then if I'm extra worried that there's gonna be noise, then I also have earplugs, I'll jam in, so I'll put it in the page. Earplugs don't stay in my ears. I've tried that. They don't stay in. I wind up with the purple, no, none of that. No, my little no. But I just and then I have my sore shoulders, so that's been hurting a little bit. So that's been disrupting my sleep a bit, but it's okay, it's manageable now. But anyway, I don't know if this is a terribly exciting, but I think it's I think what I think is for me, I've been learning more about sleep in related relation to mood, in relation to focus, in relation to weight loss. And so the only thing that gets me, so we know I'm you know, we're on my this journey. I'm I'm trying to be the healthier version of myself. So the one thing that gets me into bed is the same motivation that tells me not to have the dessert. So that's when I The longer you stay up, how are you not snacking? Yeah. So if I so if I say get into bed, because you're you said no to the dessert, so get into bed, because that's supposed to be the same thing. But I still wind up like beside my side of the bed is like there's pens, there's note like what's beside your bed? Like I have a stack of books, notepads, pens. I will sit there and like it's like a trick. No, you just get into your bed. No, it doesn't mean I'm sleeping, but I'm in the bed.

SPEAKER_00:

I have some books that I barely look at, some like cream to say, like, you know, wash your hands or wash your hands, like, you know, moisturize yourself. Yeah. Um, and no, I don't have anything. I have gummies in a drawer and vibrators. Listen, let's make this exciting. I'm sure other people have the same stuff. People were like, I've had enough of them, I'm not listening anymore. And then she stayed to this one, what is that, 20 minutes in or the good talk about sleep? Oh no, I don't know. It's a boring talk about sleep. I'm loving. That's what I have. You know what is blowing my mind though, is um now that I think about it, is the idea of so you know how you'll make fun of me in like the nicest way when I say that about my mornings.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm like, okay, I have to do this and I'm doing this, and then I have to do this, da-da-da-da. And like you do exactly the same thing at night. I don't do any of that at night. I just like I don't really good point. Yeah, I know it is. I was thinking about that. It's like my mind is a bit blown by that because when you're talking about all, and I know a few other people that way, who the amount of not management, but discipline that you put into your night routine where I literally go upstairs, wash my face, go to bed. Like, there's no thought. There's no thought whatsoever. Um, and when you're like, I don't understand what you're talking about when it comes to um like the morning routine where you like laugh at me that there's so much discipline in that, like I have to do this. And then if I have to wake up 20 minutes earlier, how do I circumvent that to make sure I get this in? It's we're exactly the same, just on different times. Yeah, like I you're doing it at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01:

All the men in the morning, I'm doing it at night. It's like it takes me, I I feel like I ramp up as the day goes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I don't, I'm the opposite. And I think those are the two schools of thought. I'm like go, go, go in the morning, and then I crash at night. Like I even find now that I can't even um, like I'm not even productive beyond really three o'clock.

SPEAKER_01:

So you know what's interesting is I bet you you're the majority and I'm the minority. Why do you always say that about yourself? I don't think so. Well, so this is why this is why I think this is because I feel pressure. So the the recommendation is how people should get up, do your like the recommended, like like sure society. Society tells you you should get up, do your exercise in the morning, hammer these things, discipline doing the first thing in the morning. Okay, and do all of these things pattern. And and so then in the same way that society will tell us then do not do these things in the night, so that you can calm down for the sleep, right? So therefore, I will think, well, I shouldn't be, even though my most productive time is at night, I'm not I'm trying to listen to that to try to calm down. Like I don't do your work, don't don't watch that much TV, don't do these things. So I try to stop doing those. I try to follow those patterns.

SPEAKER_00:

And why do you need to? Like that is so interesting to me. It comes down to like, it's because you have like, why do we all have to start work at eight o'clock? Like, why? Why do you have to so we have the luxury because we work for ourselves and we remote work, right? You can work whenever you want to work, you can choose not to have meetings like before noon if you wanted to, like you could, Amory, right? Like we have the luxury of doing that. I believe like that's the way the world should be. Again, this is comes down to, you know, again, how it's always been, and it does not sort through. And I bet it's not just the minority of people. I think it's probably a 50-50 split like most things. But society, patriarchy, all of the things have told us that this is the way we do it. We all have to get up at eight, so we're productive because I feel like look at me, I'm rocking this world. But you know what? If you actually look at me on the opposite end, not so much. Like I'm failing of the day because I'm getting up every two hours and you're telling me that you're fucking oh, I just swore, but that's fine. I already talked about vibrators, so we're good. But like literally, you um are actually getting potentially better sleep than I am, which is an example of everything that is wrong with this world. That is my that's your Oprah moment. That's my Oprah left her, and like, really? Because I never really put two and two together. Because we talk about it, but we don't really talk about it. But until you laid it out, I'm like, that is what's wrong with this world, is again, we don't even understand it, but we're we're so ingrained to believe that this is the way. And in fact, you're the one who's probably getting the better sleep. And I'm not saying the more the other people aren't. It shouldn't be about how you do it, is my point. It should be the outcome, and the world should accommodate based on individuality versus this is what we've been told for years and years and the way the world works. But guess what? If it doesn't work for you, don't do it. That's basically my point.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a really it's a really good point. It's like the phrase when they say, like the hours you get in sleep before midnight are the best hours. And I always wonder, well, why? Isn't it really like the first two hours of your night? Like, does it really matter? Does it matter about it?

SPEAKER_00:

And she's she's gonna tell us though circadian rhythm and all of like there's something there. Obviously. It's probably something about darkness and whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

But when it gets dark at 7 p.m. now, is that even a thing?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01:

So now, like Yeah, and really it's about good sleep, and it's about yeah, and if you don't get a good sleep, so here's a thing separate segue. So last week was the Blue Jays, the the the World Series, and everyone was staying up super late because these games were so late, and I was laughing to everyone I was hearing because this was my normal time. So it was all my normal time. So even but even when it was but it was out of my control, so I felt like ooh, interesting. So although I might be awake at a at 12:30 on a normal night or 12 o'clock, because it was not my control, like I'm waiting, like, are you gonna get the run? Like, what's going on here? Because it's not your control, yeah. You sometimes feel a little more tired because it's not you're not following your body, you're not sure the decision, which is also why people, when people disrupt, like when babies or children or spouses disrupt you, it's more annoying. But then, so the world or the Canadian world was kind of walking around very tired last week. But then you combine World Series with the time change, yeah. So we had our our team meeting yesterday, and our whole team was tired. And so that's also interesting. So, how do people feel when they're tired? And are they happier? No, probably not. They're probably not as focused. So, like sleep is e whether you lose it for a reason you want to lose it for, like a fun event, or yeah, sure. There's a choice in that feel as good. Yeah, you don't feel as good, you don't feel as energetic, you don't feel as probably as but imagine if we took the shame away from just the idea of how people are sleeping.

SPEAKER_00:

That's gonna be a question I'm gonna have for my sister. So maybe when we have Alana on, precursor Alana, if you're listening to this, is that it comes down to um let's yes, there's all the things you need to do, but is that more beneficial than the shaming of it all?

SPEAKER_01:

There is definite shame because I feel like there's little jokes or comments sometimes around like because I wake up later, right? So it's like I'm not lazy, but I can be made to feel lazy. And I'm like, no, I'm I well, I was up, you know, because my husband goes to bed very early in comparison to me. Um like last night he went up at like nine. He's like, okay, I'm done. So he went to bed at nine. And I look at you, just the way you said it. Yeah, he went up at nine. So I I equally shame like it's emerged back and forth. Like, you're like, oh, you're going to bed early. And but he doesn't shame me for sleeping, and I'll give him that. He does not, because he for so many years knows I had a have I have had a hard time sleeping, so he's happy when I'm sleeping, and probably also he knows you're happier, which means he'll be happier. Well, and I'd say when I'm sleeping and he wakes up early, he has his quiet time and he's sleeping, and I'm up late, and I have my quiet time. So it's precisely equally fine, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I think we need to dig into that a little bit. That's an interesting morality. Again, as there or like the individuality. I mean, I do understand everyone needs to be healthy, but and and I believe that there's science and biological ways in which it is better. Like you but when you talk about risk versus reward, like when you get to a certain age, my whole thing is if you use the both of us as examples, imagine if you felt fully kind of seen and whole in the way in which you do it, and that's just the way, and you could accommodate your life accordingly, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, if you how lucky we are at night, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You can, but like even more so, you would embrace it. It's like the idea of the way our brains work in in the way in which we manage our to-do lists and all of that, right? Like it's the same idea. Sleep is in that category. That was just the aha I had. It's like it's the same idea. It's like, why are we all trying to do this one way? So that would be my question is does it have to be that way? Give me an option B. Yeah. Do you nap?

SPEAKER_01:

Are you a napper?

SPEAKER_00:

So I am starting to embrace napping more than I used to because I think I'm getting old. And like a nice little 20. So I did that today because I was up late last night and and then I was up early. Usually I'll sleep in a little bit more because eight o'clock this time is in the middle of the night in Canada. So I have a later morning, but I was up this morning and then I did some work, had some breakfast, had some coffee, and then napped for an hour. And then I feel much better. So I'm starting to embrace that. Um, so that's another thing. Having a life and a world where that is not shamed either. Like just having out.

SPEAKER_01:

So for me, I'm still having my morning coffee because it was like nine o'clock when we started. Sure, I know.

SPEAKER_00:

You said, Oh, it's just morning. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm like, it's totally afternoon. Yeah, totally afternoon. Because we're on different time zones, which is also harder for me. Like, I look more tired because it's morning. Right. And well, I like doing things in the morning, actually. I do like getting up and doing things in the morning. I just, but if I'm left to a no alarm, no anything, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just give myself a slower morning. But yeah, go ahead. Sorry, no, go ahead. It's because I'm a terrible napper, like terrible napper.

SPEAKER_00:

Like it's taken me a while. So so do I was the same way, Amory. And I just think that that's because you know it's like wasted time. I think we're convinced that, like, oh, if you're gonna nap, like why? Like, you could be doing laundry, you could be doing all these things, and then I think as your life slows down because you don't have the responsibility of kids or whatever, you have just more time back to our last podcast. Um, and then your body needs it. Like, I'm just feeling way better, especially if I'm I don't it's again, it's just taking the shame away from all that. If that works for you, yeah, it's having that for 20 minutes. But do you feel good? You feel okay when You wake up. Because I can have a long one. So you cannot go for two hours. Three hours. Some people might be able to do that, but there's science. It's like twenty minutes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I'm not sure if you're not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

So I do an hour for me. I think everyone's probably different. I can't go more than an hour. If I go more than an hour, I'm screwed.

SPEAKER_01:

I wake up feel feeling like I'm like wrapped in maple syrup. Like I just cannot try your twenty minutes out of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Try a twenty. I have a girlfriend. She is like they are power nappers, and they she literally, and I've witnessed it, will like set an alarm for 20 minutes. She's out cold and she's up for 20 minutes, and that's her nap. And she could do that now.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember Alana talking about a Napuccino. Did you ever hear her talk about it?

SPEAKER_00:

Napuccino, no.

SPEAKER_01:

So a Napuccino. So you have caffeine, like you have a coffee, and then then you go right to sleep. So by the time the caffeine has hit your bloodstream, it's about 20 minutes. So if you go right to sleep for the 20-minute nap, so that when you wake up, you're supposed to wake up refreshed. So you don't have that.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's what happened to me today. I could feel it. You also have to learn your body. So I'll nap when I need to nap. Like if I don't have to, I don't, I don't do it. But like this morning I could feel it, like kind of that lull. And I actually just finished two coffees. And I went right to bed, and then I was up and I felt great. Had a shower, was good to go. So I think that those are things I think when we have her on, she can talk about that. I love that idea of a nappuccino. I didn't even know that's what it was called, but that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

I heard her talk about it and I thought, well, when I want to try napping, which is unusual. So anyway, we talked about it.

SPEAKER_00:

But do you need to? Napping for you is a different thing if you're going to bed at one o'clock in the morning. Like your day is just starting. I think it has to look at a whole 24-hour clock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I gotta say, I've no, I don't think I well on the weekends I would for sure go to bed at one. But like on a weekday, like I'm turning off the light by midnight. I'm like, it's still the day that I woke up in. It's still technically the day. Like I didn't make it to the next day.

SPEAKER_00:

But if you just embrace the fact that, you know what, I don't go to bed before midnight, like that's just it. Like it doesn't have to change. Like, imagine the amount of energy you could save in trying to just be like, okay, I have to do that. Certain circumstances you will if you have to get up earlier, you're not feeling well. I think it's also listening to your body, right? But if you imagine could just embrace, no, this is how I sleep. And guess what? Everyone who says that that's bad, screw you. Like, this is what works for me. And you know, it it's fine.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's what I want to have.

SPEAKER_01:

I've adapted some of my morning things because I'm I'm not that fast in the morning either. So I like have my shower at night. Like I do things almost like you know, when you have small kids, it's like bath, beds, just do the opposite. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I'll shower and I'll wind myself down, I'll do that. It's like the morning things and the night. That's was my aha.

SPEAKER_00:

I was like, yeah, oh, you actually just do everything I'm doing, like different things, but the idea of the discipline just happens on the other end of the day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I don't know if this is the most thrilling podcast. Maybe we're like putting people to sleep. Maybe they should be listening to this before they go to bed. I don't know if this is a winner or not. But the topic is sleep, and I feel like that comes up in every group of girlfriends I talk about or talk with, even men, men talk about how'd you sleep, what happened. Like, yeah, you know, we didn't talk about anything else.

SPEAKER_00:

But the insight is sleep the way you want to sleep.

unknown:

There you go.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a left turn, in it. We were wondering what the left turn was going to be in this one, and that's it. Imagine if we were all told we could just sleep the way we want to sleep, naps and all, and always it okay okay, and the world would accommodate accordingly most of the time. Imagine.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and that's the other aha. Again, I'm very, very grateful for this life that we've built. We've built that this is allowing us to live left, living left. That's the whole thing. Is okay, so we can adapt schedules, and I think we're very flexible, like we can, yeah, we can have a late night and compensate for that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Yay, us. Good chat. I was skeptical about this one, but I enjoyed it. Well, we didn't talk about daylight savings. That was supposed to be the by the way, it happened. So if you guys haven't figured it out, my kid was like, because everything automatically changes. She's like, Oh, that happened. I'm like, yeah. So that's interesting, and they wouldn't know because it just yeah, they wouldn't know. Because if she's getting up at two or three o'clock in the afternoon, like whether whether she clued in that it's an hour difference, she's like, Oh, this is around the time I get up, anyways, on a Sunday. You know what I mean? Yeah. She's like, Oh, that's not even realized.

SPEAKER_01:

That's an interesting point, too. Our kids wake up, like their schedules, like, and if we're talking about shame, we're also like, I when they sleep.

SPEAKER_00:

I probably shame a little bit too much about that. Well, because I don't care if you do it as long as you show up in the other areas when you have to.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Unfortunately, at university or school or you know, work, you don't always have the flux. You kind of have to show up at eight o'clock every so often.

SPEAKER_01:

The world is still a nine to five world.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, exactly. But that I think is the big question.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, like when you read, I read an article about high schools and why, because teenagers will leave need to sleep longer and they sleep later, their rhythm is off. Yeah. But high school usually starts earlier in the day than elementary school, which is silly because these kids really struggle, and those are nappers. Those kids come home and nap.

SPEAKER_00:

So take a nod to our European fellows where you know their siestas. Yeah. So other countries have different advantages. Yeah, so there's, I think, a whole thing. I'm sure other people have figured it all out, and we're just going, huh.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Well, and university is gonna say kids who have scheduled their classes later in the day to adapt. There is more flex. Yeah, so they they schedule their classes later, and you think, oh my gosh, you're starting a class at four or four o'clock in the afternoon. But they're like raring to go at four o'clock. Like they're fine.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And today's workforce is and tomorrow's workforce is gonna be so different. So, like, if you take the shame away, they should be building lives where they're most productive.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You know? So next time I send a pile of emails at night, you should be saying, Good for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh no, I love it when I get it. I know you've been on. I was like, and it works for me, right? Because then I get up in the morning and I'm like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, here they're I don't mind it. I'm like, she's on. The juices are flying. All right, Emory. Have a good one. Thanks. This is a good chat. Yeah, well, there we go.

SPEAKER_01:

Hopefully, well, hopefully everybody bangers. Yeah, they're not all gonna be bangers. All right. Okay, bet. All right, good. We're done. Maybe this is a what's the phrase? This is six, seven.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't, I don't even understand that. Six, seven? That's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Are they saying it to you? I think it means well, that we should have a whole podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the phrase next on to our next podcast. Have a good day.

SPEAKER_01:

Bye. Bye. Have a don't nap. You already did it.

SPEAKER_00:

If you felt this one, share it. Because what's left isn't less, it's everything.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that it? I don't do it again. I'm like, why are you there again at it?