Sleep, Stress, And The Midlife Reset with guest Alanna McGinn

We talk with sleep expert and coach Alana McGinn about building a sleep business from baby years to midlife sleep, how chronotypes shape energy, and why stress tools matter more than perfect bedtimes. We share practical ways to handle midlife sleep topics like 3 a.m. wakings, napping, snoring partners, and how stress impacts that.

• Origins of Goodnight Sleep Site and team growth
• Pivot to adult and midlife sleep coaching
• Understanding lion, bear, wolf, and dolphin chronotypes
• Practical fixes for night wakings and routines
• Intentional tech use and morning habits
• Naps, nappuccinos, and sleep cycles
• Separate rooms, blankets, and sleep apnea screening
• Magnesium, dreams, and changing sleep with age
• Stress bucket, personal pauses, and practiced joy
• Divorce support, sleep as a legal tool, and new programs

Find Alana: AlanaMcGinn.com • Instagram: @alana.mcginn • TikTok: @alana.mcginn

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Transcript

Meet Alana And The Sleep Story

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello Canada.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

We have a guest today.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

We have three squares today. Do people see the squares? No, probably. Yeah, they do. They will be able to do that. Okay, this is how I'm not technical. Yay, we have a guest today.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hello again. Welcome to our living left podcast. Thanks for having me, ladies. We go way back.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

We do go way back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

So I'm going to introduce you because people, well, Tanya should, but it'll be even we everyone? You know that Tanya and I are business partners. If you've been listening, uh we're business partners in left turn strategy, and then we've got this Living Left fun podcast that we do. But many of you may not know that Tanya has a sister, and that is Alana. And Alana is here to join us. And she also has a very interesting business she's going to talk to us about, um, Goodnight Sleep Sight. And she specializes in sleep and stress. And since we've been talking about midlife for the last few weeks, sleep and stress are uh probably the number one and two problems that most midlife women have.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Midlife women have. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm excited to have my sister on. And I was I was just telling the story, so I have to retell the story because we didn't press record in time. And I know that's very important. Um, so yes, this is my my sis, my baby sis. Um, just in case people are wondering. We're twins, we sound the same, so you might get confused as you're listening to this podcast. But I always say that all of my um in your incestuous network, so uh Alana is like the famous family member. I mean, the kid, my kids used to always say, Auntie Alana's on TV all the time. And um, I will have people come up to me all the time and go, How do you know Alana McGinn? And I'm like, because she's my sister. And they'll be like, shut up. That's your sister. You're so lucky. And then all of the questions you're so lucky, didn't you? They are. They're like, yeah, she's so famous. Does she blah blah blah? And then all the questions start. So I'm excited about today because I know I answer it as best I can, but we always like on this podcast to have a little bit of, you know, it is living left and how um it is about midlife, but usually in midlife, sometimes you have an opportunity to turn left. And, you know, you from a business standpoint have lived and continue to live many lives, right? And maybe you can give us some background on what you've been doing and what you are doing now and what the future looks like as a good introduction.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

And I've known I'm not your sister, Alana, but I've known you since the beginning of this of this entrepreneurial business. So I can remember. You guys met first. So well, no, I totally knew Alana.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Not if we're sisters. No, but I'm I met Amory before you met Amory. I know, fair, fair, fair.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

So actually, there's a tech tech technically on the same strayback about 10 or 20 houses apart from each other. So our parents loosely knew each other back in Montreal, but I don't really remember knowing you guys, but we must have gone to the same Beacon Hill public school. But didn't you go to Beacon Hill? Yeah, you went to all went, so we were in the same space-ish. But I anyway, that doesn't count. Just because like Linda and June know each other doesn't mean that we necessarily knew each other.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So yeah, so I am Alana McGinn. My company is Goodnight Sleep Site and Alana McGinn.com. Um, I started in the sleep world over eight, no, over 15 years ago, um, which is crazy to think that it's that it's that old right now. Um, so I started when, well, I'm gonna say over 18 years ago because I really started in the sleep space when uh possible.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah, it's Sophie is when you're you know, I just forget that those first businesses would be that old now. That's all.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

That's right. That's nuts. That's nuts. I know. Okay. So it was when I had my first daughter, um, and I realized that I was probably never gonna sleep again, as many new parents realize when they have their first kids. You know, you learn so much in um uh oh my god, what is it called? What are the classes you take before you? Prenatal. Prenatal, thank you. Prenatal classes, um, but they don't really cover sleep. And it's not really until you have the baby and you're not sleeping that you are, you know, clamoring for all things sleep information. And in those days, over 18 years ago, my profession wasn't really around. Um, you read the sleep books and you uh even, you know, all the social media accounts and everything that everyone that's talking sleep wasn't really available to parents in that stage. Um, it was, you know, you're getting tips from friends and from your mom and your mother-in-law and all that stuff. So I kind of learned myself how to sleep train my daughter, um, and then started helping friends and helping friends of friends. And it wasn't until

Building A Sleep Business From Scratch

SPEAKER_01 5:10

I was pregnant with my twins or brother and sister, where certifications started. Um, I'm certified through the Family Sleep Institute, in my opinion, one of the most extensive uh certifications in our industry, but still the industry was so new then, like really new then. Um, I think we knew one sleep trainer, Anne Marie. I think we can, you know. Yeah, I know who it is. Yeah, one sleep trainer in our in our circle at that time in the parenting world. I think she actually helped me with Megan, actually.

unknown 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Um I didn't know you then. So that's all right. Yeah. Um, so I got certified and started Goodnight Sleep Site. I remember hitting publish on my website. I built my website myself. I remember hitting publish on it when my twins they were in their bouncy seats staring at me. They were like 10 months old. Um, and built the business. And then, you know, fast forward a few years later, grew my team of consultants. So now I have consultants throughout Canada and the US. Primarily, they're working with the families, so with the babies to toddlers to elementary school kids. And then it wasn't until about, I don't know, six years ago, maybe five years ago, where I really started to dive into the adult world. So um, focusing on women and midlife. Um, and that really has grown in the past, I would say, two years. Uh, you know, in that five-year span, let's insert a divorce, which kind of slowed production down on the business just because my life was slowly unraveling, um, which I'm sure we'll get into. And then now with the I have a focus on midlife sleep uh for women that are going through, I don't want to just say menopause because it's not just menopause we go through at this midlife stage. We go through many different transitions of life that increase our stress and therefore hit our sleep. Um, and then recently have become a certified divorce specialist, focusing on the wellness side of women who are going through divorce and sleep and stress management and how that is important. So, and that's at Alana McGinn.com.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Right. That's what I do. But I love that. And I love how, you know, obviously we've been, I mean, you and I specifically as siblings also, you know, cheer each other on in the background and go through all the ebbs and flows. And then uh with Anne Marie, kind of having worked with both of us and knowing both of us, we've all kind of seen it go. Uh, but what I love about it is again, how you've you've intentionally made your decisions, but you've also naturally kind of followed the flow, not only yourself as a woman and knowing what you want, which I think is so important, um, but then seeing that opportunity and not being afraid to like, again, we talk about left turn, right? To say, okay, I know I've always been doing that. So a lot of people would want to stay in a lane, right? And that is what I know. And I know we've had a lot of discussions, but the courage to like, as we always say, look left and go, you know what? There is something here that I need to explore. 100%. And you've added so much value as a result of that. And it's not surprising to me that it's taken off in the last two years. As women of our age and stage are just a lot more self-aware. There's a lot more discussion out there. We need resources, we need people, we need help, you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

And we have platforms to identify that we have problems. Where, like 20 years ago, when you start when you started in the sleep space, you really only had your literal network beside you physically. Now you have networks around to say, you're not sleeping. Wait a second, you're feeling you're feeling this too. Like we're actually recognizing there's problems, and then also able to recognize that there are gaps in the solutions, and you've been able to step into those solutions, which is terrific.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, I think you know, it's for me for building my business, my business at the heart of it is coaching and educating. And I'm I'm feeling glad. It's something that I really enjoy doing. Um, and I've kind of grown my business in the stages of my life, right? When I started the business, it was sleep training because that's the agent stage I was in. Um, and then got onto teenage sleep as my kids got older and and now have graduated to um the midlife space because that's the space I'm in. So, I mean, who knows 10 years from now what stage I'll get into. But I found as as I was going through uh my divorce and my personal life was taking such a I'm gonna say positive spinach, spinach, positive pivot in air quotes, because the journey was not easy, but is to land into a more positive phase. Yeah. Um, I once I got onto that side, I realized that my professional life also needed to take a pivot. You know, the heart of my business is Goodnight Sleep Site and my team and and what we do on that end. But for me, I needed to do more, still keeping with the heart of what I do, and that's coaching and educating. So it was just, it was a a it seemed like a gradual shift, but one that was very um um I can't think of any words today. One that was very also a thing of midlife.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

I was gonna say, yeah, with a lot of purpose. So yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so what have you found? I mean, and I just it's so funny because I've always had a list of questions, and but when we get into environments, we never have a chance to really talk about business. But I did want to ask, and I'm genuinely curious, you know, what has been the most surprising thing for you as you've kind of stepped into these new spaces? Um, I think again, honing in on you are amazing from a coaching educator standpoint. You love putting those programs together, you love teaching those programs or, you know, with groups of people.

Pivot To Midlife Sleep And Stress

SPEAKER_00 10:45

But what have you found is the most interesting, especially with us midlife women, that um continues to surprise you?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

I think my biggest uh left turn or aha moment was I, you know, when I was starting the business, I worked all the time. I mean, my kids grew up watching me with a computer on my lap. Um, some of that was because, you know, I wanted to have the empire. I wanted to have the business, I wanted to take over the sleep training world. Some of it was probably also a huge distraction for the shitty marriage I was sure. Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

100%.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

But I think a bit, you know, and it makes sense. Listen, as you're older or as you're younger, you have the energy, the hustle is there. I found as I got older, especially in this new age and stage that I'm in my life now in the past few years, I don't want to, I don't need the empire. I don't want that anymore. I want to continue to educate and teach because that's what I love to do. And I love the creation of programs and the building of them. Like I love the business side of it too. Um, I'm fortunate where I have a strong passion for the business side, but I also love what I'm creating through the business side and what I'm teaching. Um, I'm fortunate in that way, but I don't want to work on weekends anymore. I don't want to work at night anymore. I, you know, I have set clear boundaries on that that I never used to do. I mean, again, I'm in a happier stage in my life for sure. My kids are are older now and need a little bit less of me, which actually doesn't make sense because I probably should have given them more when they were younger than I am now. But they really don't need anything. Yeah, right. They're fine. Um that has been a huge shift for me is um as I'm getting older, like I I don't need the empire. I just want a business I love, a business obviously that is growing, and uh I'm able to afford to have an amazing team behind me and I'm able to help people and women how I am. My bills are paid. I got some, you know, I can tuck away some money for later, but that's that.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Yeah, your purpose is bigger. Your purpose is not actually about building a financial empire, but maybe leaving a legacy of the education and also having a legacy for yourself, yeah. Like and time to come into this midlife view. Yeah. That's in a positive way. For sure. I have a question for you about your own sleep, like around sleep, because Tanya and I debate this because we have very different approaches to uh mornings and nights. Yeah. And as I was late staying up late last night reading, I was like, oh, I'm gonna get in trouble for this tomorrow. But I want to talk about it because I think it's an interesting thing. Like, I think sleep, I don't think I realized until I was on the I love the Gino Levy program, and I know you're a partner with Gino Levy. For those that don't know, it's um it's a weight loss program, but it's about so much more than weight loss. And that was my big aha of realizing it's not just what we're eating, but it's when and how in the hormones and the sleep. And it's like it's more than calories in, calories out. It's like the entire component of being a healthy person, and a healthy person loses weight. You don't lose weight to get healthy. You have to be healthy first, and then you and sleep is like in my head when I don't go to bed, which I still am going to bed earlier than I used to, Alana. But I keep telling myself, it's like you're saying you don't have dessert, so you're okay with saying no and putting boundaries around the food. But I it was so it's so hard for me to get into bed. It is so hard for me to get into bed. So I tell myself it's just like not eating that thing. You have to get in, it's the same equivalent. Like if I have more rest, then I'm gonna have a healthier body, and that will help. But I would love to hear about your own sleep because mine is once I get in, I sleep, I sleep okay. I'm not up a thousand times, but I just don't like to go to bed. I'm like a toddler that does not like to be told to go to bed. And it's but uh then I on the flip side I still have to get up, which is annoying.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

So And you are more productive at night. That was the big thing, is that I'm very affected. So that's our question a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

You're a wolf. I just did a segment.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Oh yes, I saw that.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yeah, so you your genetic makeup typically, and maybe it runs in your family, maybe it doesn't, is to go to bed later and or to wake up later, sorry, and your most product uh productive time is in the afternoon and into the evening hours. That's just that's in your DNA. You can change it, you can shift it to earlier. Um, a wolf can become a um, oh my god, I'm gonna blank on uh which one it is. A wolf can become a lion, which is an earlier waker. Um, it's hard for a lion to become a wolf, but you can change it if you want. So, what are the segments? What do you mean? Yeah, I remember. So lion is the per so lion would be like the lark, right? Lion is the early to go to bed, early to wake up. And they're productive in the morning, right? From like morning till about noon. Then you could be a bear. Bear is the most common. So bear is um the person who really sets their sleep patterns to our external environment. So as the sun rises, they wake up, as the sun sets, they go to bed. They don't have a huge amount of difficulty sleeping. Uh, they're also more productive in the morning till about noon. Wolf is the one who sleeps in later. So you're sleeping probably an hour later than the sun naturally rises, um, and you're most productive in the afternoon. So when everyone else is kind of winding down in the evening, um, you're ready to go. I used to be a wolf. Like when I built, it's I always say the irony is never lost on me that I built a sleep business on very little sleep because we were I also had small kids, right? So I had to work when they napped. I stayed at home with them too. It's full time with them home. So I worked when they napped, I worked when they went to bed. So I would stay up till all hours of night working the business, right? And I was okay with that when I was younger. Um, and then a dolphin is the one who struggles with sleep, who wakes up easily, um, has trouble falling asleep. Uh, they're the dolphin. They're always kind of moving and going, right? Um, for what was your question? My sleep? Well, my sleep is. Um, I've always been a really good sleeper, to be honest. I mean, I'm a woman. I go through stages and months where maybe I'm not sleeping more. My sleep is very affected by um my stress levels, which is kind of why I got into what I got into.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Um, I found the worst that I ever slept obviously was going through my divorce because it was one of the most stressed. I also lived with my ex for the hour, the year and a half that I was going through the divorce. So that did not help the situation. Um, but for the most part, I'm a pretty good sleeper. My sleep score is always like between 98 and 85, which I'm happy with. What is that? What do you mean? Your sleep score is on my watch. My sleep score is always around there. Um, but yeah, I I I'm I go to bed much earlier now. I also am with an amazing guy, and he is a lay-to-bed person. So he's slowly kind of I've adopted more, and another reason why I don't want to work at nights and work, you know, on the weekends. Um, but we generally go upstairs by like 9 30, 10. And then normally it's lights out by like 10 30 or so for you for reading a bit or something like that. My kids now know me to go to bed early. Like if they're at their dad's, they know not to call me past nine because they're like mom's problem sleeping. So I have shifted my bedtimes.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

So so here's the question. So I think that's awesome. And I think we can find more in the lion, bear, wolf, dolphin. You had a segment that went out on it because I remember that too uh on my Instagram. On in on the Instagram, um, uh, because I think that's super interesting. So the discussion

Chronotypes: Lion, Bear, Wolf, Dolphin

SPEAKER_00 18:30

we had is well, that makes sense. You could naturally change, and that's what Amory and I were talking about, is you know, Amory is like, I'm working really hard to to maybe change that. But then we the thing was like, but do we have to? Like, isn't this whole idea of us um embracing this idea of in midlife I can live the way I want to live, the empowerment around that? If you were a wolf and you fully embrace the wolf and because of your work and your kids are now don't need you, can you be a healthy midlife woman as a wolf indefinitely? Oh, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I mean, yeah, like if that's your natural sleep patterns, there's don't fight it. You know, it's again if a wolf wants to start working out in the morning, but it's super hard for you to get up early and work out in the morning, work out in the evening or in the afternoon if that's what your body is telling you what it needs. The the route that I don't want people to take is we have when we look at our pillars, we're looking at sleep, we're looking at nutrition, we're looking at moving our body, we're looking at connection. All of these are core, in my opinion, core pillars of health. So do we need to change one time we go to bed at? No. But we can't not just accept the fact. Well, there's a twofold for this. We can't just accept the fact, like, we can't, we have to put the same value in our sleep health as we do our other pillars. Okay. Sape is first of all, it's very finicky. And it's also the baseline, in my opinion, of the other foundations. So, like you said with Gina Levy, right? With the program that we're both involved in. If if we're not sleeping well, we're not metabolizing our food as well. We're not digesting our food as well. We crave more carbs, more sugars. We don't have the energy to move our bodies. We're not fun to be around. So connection is tanked, you know? Uh sleep is important, but I also don't want people to super hyper focus on their sleep. Like they shouldn't super hyper focus on any kind of wellness pillar, right? Yeah. Um but don't just accept that you're a poor sleeper. Like there are things that you can do to change that.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yeah. And I think it's about how if your sleep is good when you're in so two things. So one, same thing. When I had young babies, I used to go super late. Start, I'd like start my work shift late at night building that other business. And I was the exact same. I stayed up very, very late, but then I would have no choice to sleep in. So it would be very short sleeps because you had young babies. Um, and so I look back at that and I probably years, years at least a decade, I probably got between four to five hours a night. And I used to joke and say, I know it's not a long-term health plan. And and now I look back and I'm like, oh, young Anne Marie. It really was not a long-term health plan because it absolutely impacted my weight. It absolutely impacted other components of my of my health, but I was just functioning with very, very little sleep. And for sure, those four to five were broken up for sure, too, because there would be nursing babies or people that needed you in the middle of the night, and they woke up early. And now I fast forward to um teenagers and I and I sleep, I'd say anywhere between six to eight hours a night. Like it's I'm not waking up late, like I'm up by seven, seven thirty on a regular day, sometimes, sometimes eight, if I am really into a book late at night or something. But it's because I also don't have to, I only have one person at home who gets herself off to school. So that's I'm like, I'm not mandated to require to drive somebody or and my office is right here in my house. So I don't have to commute. And I can, so I I'm like, okay, but I'm not waking up at six. Like that seems crazy to me. But I'm waking up at seven naturally and going to bed around nine.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

That's I mean, you can you can completely continue to do that. You don't have to make any changes to that. And I'll be honest, sometimes like when I'm working with a woman and we're seeing a consistent like 3 a.m. waking, which is one of the most common issues, a lot of the time it's because we're going to bed too early. So, you know, if you think on average a really acceptable bedtime is 9 and 10 p.m. and you're falling asleep at that time. Well, by three or four, that's essentially I'm not going to do the quick math, but that's essentially six, seven. Five hours. Five's exact. Yeah. Like I would wake up. Yeah. So it's, you know, because I am always up.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

And I literally am up for an hour. That's it. And then I fall back asleep. I am in bed early. Well, it's not that early. It's 10 o'clock. Well, nine o'clock is still early.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Really tired though. But maybe you need to push your bedtime out of bed. Yes. On the flip side, if you're waking, like this is what we need to understand waking up in the middle of the night is okay. Yeah, fair. There's nothing wrong with that when you can't fall back asleep. That's the issue, right? So if you're waking up at three and it's taking you, you know, 30 minutes to fall back asleep, provided you fall back asleep and get a good stretch from 3:30 or 4 into 6 or 7, cool. Like you're okay, especially if you're going to bed at 10, right? Um, but if you're waking up at 2 or 3 and you're tossing and you're turning and you're not, you have difficulty falling asleep at bedtime, you're waking up at that time and you can't fall asleep. That's when we might need to make some changes.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

I also take um my naturopath recommended this in COVID because I felt like I was very stressed in COVID, um, kind of like in that era of that. And um, they recommended taking magnesium at night. So I take that every single night. And I do notice that if I'm traveling and I have forgotten it or I have run out or whatever, my sleep is absolutely impacted. So it helps me stay asleep because I found before that if I woke up, um, then I was up for the night. Didn't even matter if I was asleep for half an hour, it was over, which also made it very difficult to anyone sleeping in the vicinity of me because I'm very angry if somebody is snoring or they move or they get up to pee.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

That's me.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

So that's uh the magnesium has helped me be able to stay asleep. Yeah. Um, which I appreciate. Which also brings up, so in various circles, this is a topic that comes up a lot, is about I hear like us a lot of my friends are now getting their own room. Because especially now that you're having kids leave for school, there's an extra bedroom around. And when you said, you know, you go up at the same time as your partner. I've been married for 25 years. We have never gone to bed at the same time ever, because he's probably what'd you call him? He's a bear or a lion. Or a lion. He goes to bed early, he wakes up super early. So we've never had a pattern when we went to bed at the same time. Um, but he will wake me up if he's up early or whatever. And so I think there's a theme though. I think there's a theme in midlife where you hear women instead of just you know occasionally moving into the room, like they're actually redoing the room and saying, Well, that's mine because I need the sleep. So, do you hear about that? Is that something that's coming?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

That's a topic that I talk a lot about. Um, uh, it's called sleep divorce, which I don't love the term because it doesn't necessarily mean that you're unhappy in your marriage um or that's the route you're going down. It's just that's not a nice term, actually. No, it's not. Um, it's just that you want to sleep well. So I'll be honest, more and more couples that you probably know in your personal life sleep in separate bedrooms and they say it out loud because they it is so they're seen as a shame. There's shame surrounding it, which is ridiculous. They just want to have a good night of sleep, you know. Yeah. Um there was a national survey that came out in the states. This is going back a few years or so, but that showed that majority, I think it was over 64% of new homes were being built with two primary bedrooms. So logical. Yeah, it's the same thing. Well, it's yeah, it's also logical, is like I love sleeping with Nick, but in the old marriage, that would have been great.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

But it regardless if it's a healthy or unhealthy relationship, if you look at your health and his health or her health, whatever the partnership is, you're probably not eating the same things, you're not moving the same way, like you have different goals in your health, and you're treating that differently. So if someone needs more sleep in a different environment or it's even temperature, yeah, you know, like you need a better sleeping arrangement.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah, it's a big one. Snoring is probably the biggest, right? Um, it's so important that your sleep space is set up for your specific sleep needs and not yours and your partner's, because you probably don't have the same. A mattress is a mattress. If you're sharing a mattress, you have to both agree on a mattress. But you know, I've saved a lot of marriages just by saying you can use different blankets, you don't have this have the same comforts, you don't need to use the same pillow. Um, all of those things matter in terms of how well or not well you're sleeping. Um, if your partner is a chronic snorer, and I'm talking like snoring, um, showing a lot of day to excessive daytime sleepiness, falling asleep in meetings, at red lights, all of those things, that's likely a sign of sleep apnea. And once you better their sleep,

Night Wakings, Routines, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 27:40

because sleep apnea undiagnosed can have long-term health risks. Not only is the person who is now using a CPAP machine, most likely for treatment, they're sleeping better, they're healthier, the person sleeping beside them is also now getting proper restorative sleep, which is so important. So, yeah, like a lot can go on in a bedroom that can disrupt your sleep. Uh, that's why environment is so important. And if that means sleeping in different bedrooms, go for it.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah, I think the shame is going away from that. I think it's so important. It's so smart.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Yeah. It's so smart. I know all that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

I think more and more people are open to it. I get I have a lot of those conversations with friends as well, like to your both of your points. Like there's very few actually who are sleeping in the same room still.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

And if all if everyone's trying to have a like a long life and sleep is that critical of a pillar.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah. You need to. But I think it's just back to just to close the loop on on the morning versus night. I just think that's gonna be a big aha for a lot of our listeners because that was some of the feedback. Like people were like, when Anne Marie and I were talking, we didn't have these categories, which is amazing. But we were like, I'm a morning, she's an evening. And we were like, well, we have the privilege to be able to um, you know, you know, lean into I don't have to get up. Like we can do that, we run our own business, and that's important. So, you know, with all, but I also think at midlife, when you're thinking about, you know, empowering yourself to make changes and take control of your situation, those are the things. I don't care if you're going into the office, you can now negotiate some of that stuff. Like if it doesn't work for you and you need an extra hour, then you take that extra hour, you know, and that and and I do believe the world where we got to is isn't it amazing that still to this day, society and the world tries to force everyone into a schedule or a you know, how many times have you heard that the morning is the best time to do everything?

SPEAKER_02 29:45

So if you haven't got your workout in the morning, this is the time to get your workout in and you started off at 5 a.m. club. So I feel lazy because I feel ashamed and lazy because that's not you.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

I'd never be a member of the family.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

No, I've tried. I have tried and it's a failure, and it's very hard. So I'm like, I there's gotta be a way to do some of these things easier that still I get like what's more important? Like, uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

So I mean, that brings me to kind of what I work on with my clients is there's so much when when we talk about sleep, obviously we talk about bedtime routine and what we're doing at night to sleep better. But what I'm now putting more focus on, and I still talk about sleep hygiene and all of those amazing things, because it does matter. Um, so like like I said, sleep is very finicky. And when something isn't, we all sleep, we all have the ability to sleep. Sleep shouldn't be so hard. But when there's something that's going on in our life that's off, it's gonna affect our sleep. The one thing it affects for sure is our sleep. Um, so you know, if we're not eating well, if we're not, if our stress levels are too high, all of those things. So instead of being like super worried about what time I go to bed at and what, you know, should I do this in the morning, should I do that at night? Focus on your daytime and your morning time. Like the morning routine and daytime is so important for your overall sleep health and what you're doing in that time. Um, can so what does that mean specifically then? So working on things like, you know, how you wake up in the morning is gonna affect your day. So if you're we all use our phones as alarm clocks, I'm sure everyone listening can is nodding their head saying, Yes, I use my phone as my alarm clock. But if you're and that's okay, that's just the way of our world, even though stores still sell alarm clocks, I will say. Um, but if you're you know turning off your alarm and grabbing your phone and you're right away getting into your emails, going on social media, reading the news, and you haven't even gotten out of bed yet, that is now impacting your entire morning, entire day there for your bedtime, right? So always give yourself that 30 minutes when you wake up to just not check in. Do what you got to do. It that could be a workout.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Okay, but like what if you have a boyfriend in Ireland and you need to WhatsApp him right away? But you don't different because he brings you joy.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

That's not going to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Okay, so if it brings you joy, ladies, you're okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Or you could call him on the phone instead of texting him.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

No, but here's the thing on the flip side, I am not a um, I am not opposed to tech. Like, I'm really not. I'm not, I know you're not. I know. I'm not gonna tell people to keep tech out of their bedroom because there's a lot of tech that can help us sleep better. And if you've had a really stressful day, like just to simplify it, if you've had a really stressful day and watching one or two episodes of your favorite show, we all have our feel good shows is gonna make you forget your day, watch it at bedtime. Okay. If talking to your boyfriend in the morning is gonna elevate your serotonin and help get out of bed with a little bounce in your step, do it. You know what I mean? Um, but you know, if reading some cruise and going on social media and checking work emails, like that's probably not gonna do that. Or like doom scrolling. So I think your point is well taken, there's intention in it, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Like it's you are okay, I'm going to do this, but then I'm gonna get up out of bed, I'm gonna go for a walk, or I'm gonna do the thing. So interesting nuance in what you said, Alana, too, is you said when you wake up, yeah, your it is real your sleep. I can't, I can't say it as well as you, but your your sleep schedule or how you wake up. Sorry, that was it. How you wake up is important, not when you wake up. Exactly. And I think that's what people need to hear. So back to again, we're not saying that everyone needs to sleep till two o'clock in the afternoon. Within reason of outliers of an hour and a half here or there, it's not when. And that is what I think is drilled into us is again what we talk about the five and club and being up, it's how. So it doesn't matter if it's eight o'clock, Emery, or eight thirty, and you can do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

So I seven, it's in the sevenths. Okay, in the sevenths. Seven is fine. That's the time that I typically she's just trying to say because I'm concerned. Everybody thinks I sleep in like crazy, and I I don't really seven. I don't know my wake time, but I wake, go to bed later. So here's I have a question. So on the phone, because I use my alarm sometimes too. Sorry, sorry. No, that's okay. And um, so I find you're right. If you pick up and you you start to doom scroll or do whatever, yeah, there goes a whole half an hour. Yeah, but if I just want to laze around her bed, like sometimes I just don't, I'm not, I'm not getting up and going for my walk right away. Like, I'm like, I got some time. I just want to lay here for 20 minutes. So I've started my book is right there. Yeah, sorry, it's Andra.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

She's calling me like oh my god, our aunt. You're not calling me though. Who's the favorite niece today?

SPEAKER_02 34:28

You are you're gonna have to send her the link to listen. Okay.

unknown 34:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Anyway, I was gonna say when I reach for my book when I first wake up, I'm actually way calmer in the morning. Yes, I've actually legitimately like I've noticed a difference. So, and then I'll like read a chapter, and then I'm like, okay, now I'm up and I or I'm awake. My brain is awake and I'm up versus you lose time on these apps, like it's you get sucked into a whole lot of things. I think it's an important thing. That's a good way to start your brain off.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Yeah, it's it's an important nuance. It's why I've always enjoyed listening to you. Like I always feel like it's reasonable. It's kind of, I think, probably why you align well with we'll talk about Gina Livy as well, because she's reasonable in her expectation, Alana. You're reasonable. So I think it's important for people to hear the nuance in everything that you say, not opposed to tech. You need to be intentional. It's how you wake up, not when you wake up. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

So what about napping? We've talked about this. I told you about it. I quoted you, I quoted you, Alana, because I'm a terrible napper, like absolutely terrible napper. I wake up, I feel like I'm wrapped in maple syrup, like I'm totally a mess. I can't nap. I'm just an anti-napper, cannot nap. And um, unless it's like an absolute emergency, but I referenced your nappuccino and I had nothing. I do it all the time. And I was like, you need to have a nappuccino, like Alana talks about.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

So nappuccino is work. Not everyone, like I always also get that question like, should I nap? Shouldn't I nap? So I always say if you have a

Tech, Mornings, And Intentional Habits

SPEAKER_01 36:05

pretty healthy relationship with sleep, you're sleeping pretty well at night. Again, no night is going to be perfect, but you're sleeping overall, your overall sleep health is good. A nap occasionally is not gonna hurt you, right? But if you are someone who perhaps has chronic insomnia, perhaps isn't sleeping well at night, you think of your drive for sleep. Our drive for sleep throughout the day is like a gas tank. I call it our sleep tank. So when we wake up, regardless of how we slept at night, for the most part, that tank is on empty. So we need to fill that tank throughout the day so that we're able to fall asleep well at night. So that's through physical movement, that's through waking up regardless of what time, consistently, immersing yourself in that natural light, getting in that um uh that natural light and moving your body are are two great ways to do it. So if we take a nap, for someone who isn't sleeping well at night, taking that nap is like driving 10 kilometers. You're burning that gas, which you don't want, right? So those would be the people that I would say try to avoid naps. I know it's hard because those are the people who really need the naps because they're not sleeping great at night, but we want to really have a strong pressure for sleep when we're going to bed. Um, on average, a good nap, about 15 to 20 minutes. NASA actually had a study that showed the perfect nap time is 22 minutes. How they came to that conclusion, I'm not sure. But that is within a cycle of sleep. That's just before we hit into that deep sleep space. Because sometimes when you take a nap, you feel worse when you wake up from that nap than you did when you just made me think of something.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

If I'm a wolf, that's why I can't nap because I have all the energy at the end of the day. That's right. So I'm like, you should take a nap. I'm like, take a nap. It's gonna take me three hours to get asleep. Then I finally fall asleep, I'm down a well, and then I have to come up. And so confusing. I also interesting it.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

It is, and I think it's getting to know your body. Like, I think again, as you start to again, if we focus it back to midlife, I do think that, and I don't know if you ladies feel the same way, but I feel like, and I've always been really in tune with my body, but I feel like I'm even more in tune with my body now. That I I don't say that every pop podcast.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Tanya's very in tune with her body.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I am. I should get a t-shirt or something, maybe. Okay. She says that she never makes fun of me. Whatever. I do say it was legit. It's a track. That's true. We do Tanya isms. But um, but I do think that what I've started my new intuitess of it is um, I just have more time, so I think about it. Is uh I can feel when I need a nap. Like I ride again. This is if you are able to have an afternoon of meetings and you're in control, there's some days where I feel super done at three, right? And again, if I'm waking up at seven and I will take. So did you say this to me, maybe, or I heard from you? It's either that 20 minute or it's has to be an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Like, 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Both cycle 90 minutes. So I will literally commit to the nap. I commit to the nap and I set my alarm for two hours and I swear, and usually I'm ready, don't worry, it's on the weekend, but no.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Um I will just fall asleep at three o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Uh team, if you can't get me, I'm probably nabbing. But the idea is, and I swear I've tested this, it always falls within 60 to 90 minutes. No word of a lie. I wake up just naturally. So I give myself two hours so I'm not waking up with an alarm. And fool proof, it's like close to 90 minutes all the time. And that must be a sleep cycle. So here's my last question on sleep though for my sister is I tend to sleep like that at night too, which is a problem. I'm up every two hours to pee. So, but is that just my natural? No, no, no, no. I just get I just naturally get up awake, then I'm like, oh, I have to go to the washroom. I go to the washroom, I go right back to sleep. And I literally either do four to Five hours, or then I do 90 minute sleep stints until I wake up quite refreshed at seven o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

So I mean that's what our ancestors did. You know, the modern world that made us sleep, like not ours personally, but like I mean the human race. The human race. That's what I thought. Uh I knew that. Um, you know, they would sleep in segments. They would normally have two segments, right? They would go to bed as the sun set, um, and they would get up for a few hours, you know, whenever in the middle of the night, and then go back to bed and sleep when the sun rose. It's it's our modern world that put us on that six to eight hour block of time. Now, I'm not saying that that's something that we should adopt because unfortunately we do live in a modern world where we do have to get up at a certain amount at a certain period of time in life and things like that. But again, if you're able to fall asleep relatively easily once you do wake up, I mean, I would be I would check more on why do you have to get up so many times now? That's I'm working with my doctor on that.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

I know you are hormones and all that scrap.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, and you know, we get to an age where we do have to limit at what we drink. And I know did you get your sleep study done? I can't remember. I didn't, it got canceled. I have to go back.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Oh, yeah. Okay, so that you know showed up, but I will, I will, yeah, because I snore too, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:26

I did snore. I snore too. Apparently, I've been told in the past week that I'm snoring a lot, but I think it's because I'm stuffy. That's what I'm blaming it on. But I'm stuffy. Um, so yeah, that's fine. Okay, so that's fine. I feel that's fine too. That's totally fine.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

And I have a question when you reference sleep study.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Go ahead, you go, and then No, no, my last thing, because I'm gonna say this for our listeners, because these are the conversations I have with my friends, is the other thing is if you wake up at three or four in the morning, do not stress about it. Meaning, if it and I think you said that, if it takes half and sometimes I am on my phone, I know it's bad. Okay, don't do that. But or read a book or something, like don't force it because you do get tired again. Like then I do get tired and then I roll over and I fall asleep. So I think this just might be kind of the age and stage that we're in, and this is it. But if you fight it and then you're stressing about it, it's harder to fall asleep. That was just the point I was gonna say. I don't know if that's accurate, but it works.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Just don't think about it. Don't think about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

If it takes you, don't think about it.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

If you wake up at that time and you're tossing, you're turning and you're clock watching, is to actually physically get out of bed, do something like read a book, don't check your email, don't see another room, then try and fall asleep again. Yeah. Rather than the tossing and the turning and the clock watching, because that just elevates our stress that we're already feeling about not sleeping. Yes, I think that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Okay, Marie, what were you gonna say? I was wondering if things change as you age. So dreams and activity. So I've always had wild dreams, and I've as a kid used to sleep walk. I don't haven't slept walk probably like not as regularly in the last 20 years, but even it up till I was probably 30, very often. Um, and I used until I'd say the last five years, I have been whipping on like like you the bed is a mess. Like I'm just moving all over the place. Since taking

Naps, Nappuccinos, And Sleep Cycles

SPEAKER_02 43:20

the magnesium, I'm just in one spot. It's shocking. Like I can like you can just see exactly where I slept. I still have quite wild dreams, but not as frequently that I recall. So I don't know. What are your thoughts? Does that change over time as you get older?

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Maybe I'm just yeah, because the stages of sleep that we get as we get older changes. So you're in your when you're in REM sleep, that is your dream state, right? So that's when you're gonna dream the most. I love dreaming. This is like a little bit about me. Like sometimes I go to sleep at night and be like, have a fun, adventurous dream tonight. Like, because I love it, it just keeps me entertained. I always need to be undergate.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Do you remember the dreams in the morning?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

For the most part, I get bombed if I don't. Like because I know I've dreamt, but I don't remember them. I don't know. I just because I like reading, so I like like I like uh another otherworldly things, you know. I like dreaming, unless it's like a bad dream, obviously. Um, so there's nothing wrong with dreaming. Um, but as we get older, you know, we might get more restless sleep. We might, you know, our body temperature increases and and all of those things because so that can affect our sleep. And that's where things like taking magnesium. I'm a big, I'm not a doctor, so I don't diagnose, I'm not a naturopath. So always talk to your doctor and your naturopath if you're looking to include things into your daily supplements. But I'm a big believer in magnesium because we are a deficient society in magnesium and it can help with sleep. Um, but again, changing your sleep environment. So if you're tossing and turning your bedsheets all are all over, is it because you're too hot? Do you need to change what you're sleeping in or what you're sleeping on? Like all of those things factor in.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Yeah, for sure. See, mine is the opposite, though. It's like nice and calm. Where am I like as a child up until maybe five years ago? Like it's bananas. Yeah, interesting. But I'm not really jumping out of bed.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Like I used to get out of like because we don't have to. I do enjoy enjoy going.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

No, I mean I would no, no, I would jump out of bed in the middle of the night 10 years, like walking, talking, looking for things.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Like sleepwalking is um sleepwalking is basically things like sleepwalking. I work with a lot of parents who go through like night terrors and things like that. That is where your sleep and wake cycle is fighting against one another, right? And sleepwalking falls into that category. So typically when things like that are going on, it's it's working on your sleep hygiene. So, do I need to maybe go to bed a bit earlier, right? Like that's where if that's coming back, and if you're doing that again, that's when you need to take an overall look at your sleep health.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

So that's interesting. My dad always did my three kids. We all talk too, like you can hear it's anyway. That's another segment. That's an interesting talking in different rooms, and you can hear us. One hotel room does not work well. Yeah, I bet it does. People are talking all through the night.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

I love this. That's hilarious. So talk to us. So you've moved. So again, we've talked about sleep, we've talked a little bit about kind of stress management and how that. So you're going in, you're speaking with adults now, you're doing corporate functions as well to help people within that capacity. Um, so so in the stress management, obviously, is it it's clearly the management of stress will affect your sleep. So there needs to be a kind of a control within or management within that. Are there any kind of key tidbits that um question you have questions or you've talked to midlife people about when it comes to stress management?

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Well, when you know, when we talk about stress management, stress management is learning different tools, learning different skills, right? So think of your bucket as like a stress bucket and it has a spout. So, and you're putting water into that spout. The water is the stress, the spout are the tools that you're gonna use to release that stress, right? As we get older, especially with midlife women, what tends to happen is the spouts get smaller and the water flows in a lot more because we go through different life transitions, right? Uh, menopause definitely is gonna affect your health. I'm a hormone expert, so I tend to not speak on that. Um, things like uh life transitions, right? Changing careers, kids moving out, relationship changes, all of those things are gonna increase the stress bucket. So we need to increase that spout. So learning things like um, I call it a personal pause. So finding time throughout the day to work through what you need to work through because we tend to kind of push everything down and then at night the distractions are gone, and then that's when every and problems are still gonna flood your brain in the middle of the night. That's normal. But take if you take time throughout the day to work on it, you can start training your brain to understand that you know, bedtime or three o'clock in the morning, now is not the time to work on this. I worked on it during the day, I will work on it at night. Um, interesting. Things like um incorporating joy. Incorporating joy isn't like finding a new hobby or starting painting, but it could be and could be could be in it, could be, but sometimes we only think of that. When we find joy, we're like, oh, I gotta think of a new hobby. But it could just be increasing your connection throughout the day, savoring a moment, right? Rather than just as a business owner, I mean, I am I am so guilty of this always. I never celebrate my wins, I just move on to things like this moment of celebration. It could be movement, it could be life experiences, it could be creativity, like focus on it's me time, right? Finding time throughout the day to give yourself some me time uh is super important.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Yeah, maybe just that me time needs to be rebranded as stress relief, exactly. Like if that like prescribe the me time as stress relief.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

That's how we have to kind of look at it, right? Actually, that's a really good thing. Happiness and joy are two different things. Happiness is an emotion that we feel. Um, it's like that butterfly. It lands on you, but then it flutters away. Joy is something that we can we have to work on. Joy is a choice, it's something we have to work on to incorporate into our lives. And we can now that's so fine. Sorry, guys. Uh I really should just put on my focus. Um, joy is something that um uh we is a choice. It's something that can run side by side with feeling sad or mad. We can still feel joyful in that moment. And that joy makes us more resilient for burnout and for stress. Um, so I don't want to just like throw the word like be joyful and feel joy, but you know, focusing on times throughout the day where you feel that joy and that happiness is important for us.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

I love that. So you just reframed something for me because I always say happiness is a choice, and we've had this conversation, right, Anne-Marie, where that annoys her because she's like, What do you mean? Like, I'm happy. Like, what it like it felt like it can come across as like just be happy, which is not my point.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

But I find it, I finding because I find that like an uh a passive, aggressive way of just like what's wrong with you. But I think it's not always a choice for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Yeah, and that's joy things like joy is because this is I like that. How you said joy can happen, you know, again, in your sad or angry or whatever, but also on the happiness on the other side. That's like the the net result, the feeling. Um, I'm gonna start saying you can choose joy because that is more of the intentional and it's the gratitude idea, right? Of being grateful. But you're right, it could just be sipping your coffee at two o'clock in the afternoon and taking 10 minutes to like look outside the window type thing.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

That's like a joyful as long as that two o'clock in the afternoon coffee does not impact your sleep.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Yes. That's right. I can sleep drink coffee whenever and I sleep.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Most people but at this time of life, many people, it impacts their sleep. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

And then that's it. So I love that with the stress management. I think that's just a great kind of and and

Sleep Environment And “Sleep Divorce”

SPEAKER_00 51:10

I the other key takeaway is um, and then again, my brain is gonna totally lose it. But um, oh shoot. It's gonna come back to me. But how oh yes, me time, reframing that, right? Because it becomes selfish as women, we feel like taking that time. But if we reframe it as stress management, as like visually, I'm seeing I'm filling that bucket, it's overflowing unless I increase the size of the spout. Like, no, it it gives us more reason, even though we should be able to do whatever that we want. But the reality is if you reframe it as a means to manage stress versus just me time yourself, I love that. I think that's a good takeaway. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, selfish time. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

I love that and you'll sleep better. So if you deal with it, then you sleep better. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

So just being conscious of time, because I know we only had you to a certain time. The last thing we I think we mentioned that as we kind of look forward into our topics, we'll likely want you to come back at some point, specifically talk about divorce. I know you've mentioned it a few times because um Alan and I, we like to be twins and do things at the same time. So much to our parents' dismay, we decided to leave our husbands at the same time. Sorry, Mama. But at least they didn't have to do it, you know, again. They could do it.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Sorry, mom and dad, but yes, we should put the band-aid in our back.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Yeah, guess what? Me too.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

Um but both of you have done, you've done a really good job of managing the stress of that very stressful circumstance. You like to use your teapot metaphor, right? Like you found ways to manage that stress and and really still function and take it all through. Well, you're both very highly functioning women, too. Yeah, I think very strong, high functioning women, not to dismiss the massive overhaul and change and transition you've had to go through 100%. You you put your game face on, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

For sure. So we want to certainly have you back to dig into that a little bit. But before we end, I know because you've just been talking about it a little bit more openly. So just for people who are listening, um, so you've now kind of expanded, and I don't know if it's just now, but now really launch, maybe a softer launch, and this is a harder launch into um certification around helping women manage divorce. Maybe just talk a little bit about that before we kind of close, close this off because I think it all obviously that would affect your sleep and stress as well. So it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Yeah, totally. And I mean, and it did mine, right? So for the most part, I always had a healthy relationship with sleep until I went through divorce. And then obviously, as you go through something, you tend to um find more people in the same kind of situation. Um, and sleep definitely affects sleep, your sleep is definitely affected when you're going through such a stressful process like divorce. Um, so the programs that I built, I like to look at sleep as like it's you're using sleep as a legal tool, right? Because you're not going to make great decisions. Your mood, your temperament, your decision making, um, your stress levels, all of those things is affected when you're not getting great sleep. So a lot of people obviously, um, myself included, kind of put their own wellness and health on the side while you're going through a stressful situation like that, because your focus is only on surviving the day and getting to that next step that you have to do and all of those things. So, my hope with these programs is that it allows women to put a focus on their health, both on the legal side and wellness side. And what I mean by legal side is I'm not a divorce lawyer. I'm not going to give you legal advice. Um, but I am going to help you manage your stress while you're making um, while you're preparing for court, while you're getting your documents ready, while you're doing all of these things that you that is very stressful, while you're going through financials, maybe for the first time in your life. Yeah. Um, and that's so important. So, my goal with these programs is to help women um maximize their sleep and minimize their stress while going through that process. Um, so that when you get to the other side of divorce, as you know, Tanya, you know, you will get to prepared to live the life that you are meant to live. Love that. So, what does that coaching look like, Alana?

SPEAKER_02 55:24

Is it one-on-one or is it a program that they do on their own?

SPEAKER_01 55:27

One-on-one. So there's a few ways you can work with me. One is one-on-one. So all the information can be found at alanamagin.com. Um, the programs are through one-on-one. They are through um an online program that you can do it yourself. Um, I have many programs in development, and I actually have my own GPT in development too that will help with those three wakings if you're going through divorce and your mind is just flooded with every everything. So stay tuned on that. That's launching in the next congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

That's a great way to make lemonade out of lemons. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

For sure. I love it. Yeah, Alana, thank you so much. It was so fun. It was good just to chat with you in this in this capacity. I know. Thanks for having me, ladies. Absolutely. So, everyone, you got to, yes, she is my sister. Yes, she's a longtime friend of Anne Marie and myself. And you can find her at Alana McGinn. So that's where it's that that's the website, alanamagin.com.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Alana McGinn.com. You can find me on Instagram at alana.megin. Um, TikTok, same thing, at alana.magin, but I'm not on TikTok that often. More so it's a whole other thing.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Cool. Awesome, ladies. Sounds good. Sleep well. Sleep well. Okay.