International Women’s Day: Rethinking Equity, Allies and everyday actions

We examine “give to gain” through lived experience, from financing roadblocks to subtle biases that still shape who gets credit. Practical allyship, better reviews, and showing up for community events become the through line for making equity real.

• Meaning of give to gain as shared responsibility
• The gap between progress and systemic barriers
• Financing hurdles and decision-making gatekeepers
• Simple ways to give credit and build allies
• Redesigning performance reviews to reduce bias
• Language shifts from apology to agency
• Why visibility and courage from allies matter
• Sharing the mental load at home and work
• Concrete steps to show up and invite others

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Hi Tanya. Hello, Amory. Happy International Women's Day slash month. I love this time of year. It is the best. It is my favorite. Full of inspiration, full of love. I like it. You know what? I don't even actually know when this started. Do you know when International Women's Day started? I feel like it's been in the last maybe 15 years. But I don't actually know. I probably should have prepared. That's okay. IW. Yeah. IWD. So like the hashtag IWD, everyone's gonna start seeing all over the place. And I'm also always amazed that many people don't know what that means, but that's maybe because we're super nerds on this topic. Super feminist nerds. We are. We are proud feminists. Yes. And so anyone that maybe is not as aware, so International Women's Day happens every year. For how long we don't know, but we're gonna say 15 to 20 years, maybe. Yeah. And there's a theme every year. Yes. Internationally, whatever international body decides this, I don't know. I don't know that either. I don't know who's on the board of the International Women's Day. Totally. That's like a rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Well, I'm actually Googling as we're talking. I'm like, what is happening? I feel like it's been around for a very long time. Based on what the dates are.

What “Give To Gain” Really Means

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I do know it's been around since we've owned left turn, which is uh nine years. Nine years. Huh. I think it's I feel like it's kind of grown with the growth of social media. I don't think this actual day has been around for the longevity of our careers. It has not. Yeah, I don't know. Like women of influence. Yeah. Anyway, the theme this year is give to gain. And so we did, I did look that up because what does that even mean? Because what does that mean to me might be different to what was intended. But the intention is that it centers on a reciprocal, proactive approach to advancing gender, gender equity. It challenges individuals and organizations to intentionally share resources, mentorship, time, and support. So it's there are themes around represent uh re I can never say this word. Reciprocity. Yes, thank you. And collaboration, action-oriented support, empowerment, empowerment through generosity. When women rise, we all rise, which is correct. But give to gain, it's an interesting thing. Because as we were, we wanted to talk, we went to a couple of events already, and I'm going to another one on Thursday, and there's a chat around give to gain. Women are already giving so much.

The Gap You Feel And The System

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Like Yeah, and when you explain, when you read it, the oh, so complicated. I have so many things swirling in my brain right now. So when you read what you just read about making sure everyone rises, right? So so there's that part. I think when we went to the talk, and we'll we'll speak about each of them last week, the idea of give to gain was so was landing well in the context that if there is an acceptance and an understanding that there still is a gap, and and and we all recognize there's a gap, but I think there's how much of a gap is sometimes lost because there's some wins and you're living in your little world and you're feeling good. You know, we're a women-owned business, we lead a team full of women, we surround ourselves with strong women, and for a moment you feel as though you things are going well. We're rocking, there's some you know, equality, we have daughters, etc. And then something happens, the Olympics is an example, and you realize that there is a huge gap. So when you just described give to gain in that context of reminding everyone that we need to raise up this idea of equality in women, I'm like, yes, even though, and then the flip side you said is there's people that are really good point of view that we already give so much. Like I have to give more. And I think if it's in the context that we have to ask others to give to gain, we're not just saying it's women. We agree that women are already giving a lot. But where can our quote unquote allies give more? I think that was really a long-winded way for me to wrap my head around the complexity and the gray zone of this topic.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah. And all I mean, the the the short version is we've come so far, but we have so more much farther to go. We have so much further farther to go. Yeah. And so depending on when you've entered the chat, yes, like if you are our children, they're like, oh, it's equal. If you are our mothers, they would say, Oh my gosh, you have so much more than I did. Like you have so much, but we'll we're still not caught up. We're still not caught up. Like as a female-owned business, I mean, just thinking of our and and like just getting financing. Like when we started, we were aghast that we needed spousal signatures. We're like, this is insane. Should our own history and our own business plan and our own assets be more than enough, yet it was not. Yes, which is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

I think that's it. Ridiculous we the world, and it's not just us, but if we just talk about our own lived experience, because no one can argue with our own lived experiences, right? It gets a little messy when we make generalizations, but I do believe it to be true. I agree with you, is that some people will experience it more than others, right? But when you are trying to eke into a world that is, which is our system, which is still primarily, you know, um run by men um and and and and built for that infrastructure and that history. Um, and then you get into these scenarios, like you said, when we were looking for financing, and we're like, well, that's weird. Whereas other people will be like, they've been fighting and going up against this time and time again, and it's not. So there are those women who have come before us, well, well before us. Um, and we acknowledge certainly and and appreciate that. And then, okay, we get past that, and then we're living in our world of of feminism and we're feeling good, and then bam, something else hits you, and you're like, oh my gosh, we're just not as far as we thought we were.

Financing, Gatekeeping, And Lived Experience

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Yeah. Um, which is why we have to sorry, go ahead. Yeah, no, go ahead. I was gonna say, because that's why these days are important to continually remind you. So it's not to break the momentum or to say things are not all already good. Yeah, but if you don't keep drawing attention to it, then we can forget. We can forget. I think so. Right? So if at least once a year, organizations and families and people start to say, okay, so this is International Women's Day. What are we talking about? It's a reminder, a refresher to say, okay, so we need to make sure that we are like you just have a little audit of your systems and say, are we advancing women and paying attention to women as much as we could? So we did uh go to two events. So we brought, we had a a group a table at our our local chamber event, which was called um women leaders and allies, and they had some fantastic speakers on on the panel. Um, there was one woman who was um a leader at IKEA Canada, or global IKEA, I think actually. She was really good. I really liked her um concept, really, about but she had a lot of personal examples of just simple ways to lift women up. And we're not talking about um even details into ensuring that there's equalization in hiring and in pay structure, like that came up too. But she was talking about simple ways of giving credit where credit is due, simple ways, actually acknowledging frequently thanking the women in your circle for the contributions they do, whether professionally or personally. And like very simple ideas that you you think actually are common sense, but they're not, but they're not as as common sense.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

And I I liked um, you know, she had a scenario, and I think this is true for all of us. I think it's why we we are are powerful in what we're building and doing because we we had each other. We have each other, right? Like, and and then we had three, and then now we have two. And, you know, when you think of women who are either starting their own business or often on their own in their company, um, and feel like, you know, they might be one of very few women if they're in a higher position um and don't necessarily have the people they can lean on. Her very big example was when she was starting her role at IKEA at remember that global in the US, she was at and she found another female who was they were she was talking about imposter syndrome, which is is very real and very true to a lot of us. And they found in each other allies that and and that was her ally. That was her ally, and it it led me again. Uh those examples happen, and and that I am like just so grateful to have to have started a business with you because that is so important. We do have each other, right? We can get through the worst of times, but there's a lot of women out there, and I've been in that scenario, you've been in that scenario when you're potentially at a larger organization, etc., and you feel very alone, and it's important that women remind we remind ourselves that we do need to be include, we need to lift each other up. And I I don't I didn't grow up with that. Like when I say grow up, it's a term I use often, meaning grow up in my career world, um necessarily with that understanding. I wasn't mentored to that. I think it's talked more now.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

No, we didn't have any do you if you go back to your early career job. I mean, frequently I was in on teams where I was the only woman. Frequently. Like there were other women in the organization, but yeah, you would have because that was large corporate.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Like I I am frequently you're the only one. I was agency, so there was there's more females typically. But you're right, led by like not female-owned organizations. So you're right, there was a lot of pressure. I came from a world where there was a lot of pressure in the directors. Maybe there was a VP um female who was your boss, and it was it was a very contentious situation.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Um there were women coming up, but it was still, I would say it was in transition. Yeah. Like, so there were definitely women leaders and women mentors, but there weren't as many as there were men. Yeah. And you were the the teams and the leaders on the team were still usually men. And that was in transition. I think if you went into that same organization today, um you would probably find actually, actually, I know that that company is now more women than men. I actually think that they have made some big changes.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

So at the table of our Women Leaders and Allies event, we actually had a friend of mine from that time who's actually now a client of ours. Um, and she made such a good point about performance reviews. Yes, I'm and I'm tying it in because it's I think that's so good. Like, so because performance reviews inherently are male traits. So they have been designed for less collaboration often and more quote unquote leadership, demonstrative, extroverted leadership. Transactional, yeah. Right, which is those are great ways to show leadership, but they're not the only way to show leadership. And then, of course, if you go through like a traditional performance review, there's more elements. But we we went around the table and we were talking about um, I forget the question that actually the moderator asked us all to kind of talk about at our tables, but we talked about just kind of ex examples of what we would change. What we would do.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

I think it's what we change five days, uh, five weeks, five months type forms.

Why Reminders Still Matter

SPEAKER_00 13:45

And she she said, you know, performance reviews felt like a really outdated way because then people formulate their actions and their activities based on what they're gonna get rated on versus actually their strengths. Yeah and you're trying to close like your perceived weaknesses, but then actually those weaknesses are strengths in another way. Anyway, I brought up a whole other topic around, and again, you don't want a blanket statement that all genders act the same because they not all women act the same, but there are certain character traits, yeah, or attributes that we say are more masculine, right? That we say are more masculine. Because then I'll tie that into the thing we went to last night, which was a fundraiser for United Way for Halton and Hamilton, which had which was another great event event, and they one of their guest speakers was um Professor Maya, who is kind of like she says she collects apologies. So she's done a lot of research on women and our innate rational. Why do we always apologize? Like, why are we all oh sorry, oh sorry, sorry for being late versus saying, thank you for waiting for me, like just little intonations. And she talked about assertiveness versus leadership, like how women are seen as assertive and negative and aggressive when men would have be saying that they are leadership strong and strategic. And so I I was looking, listening to her, thinking about that comment on performance reviews. And the woman who's trying to be strategic and trying to lead sometimes is not perceived. 100% and that's just a shame. Yeah, the woman is direct, she should be softer, and all of that, anyway. That's that's those are just the things that we're those are some of the things we're talking about that I think are important to talk about once a year at least.

Women Leaders And Allies Event

SPEAKER_02 15:35

I agree with you, and I I wholeheartedly agree. And I think it's when you're in the month, like I think the official day is the eighth, but when you're in the month of it and you're you know, the focus, I think it's so important because it just is a nice reminder for all of us that we need to continue to push the boundaries. And I think the biggest thing too is that it doesn't just benefit women, I think that's the shift. It benefits everyone, humanity, humanity. Like if you're you know raising women up, if you are, you know, looking at things differently to be inclusive, um it benefits everyone. And and I do believe there is a better understanding of that. Um, but then something will happen and you realize wow, there's still a huge gap. All the more reason why we need to be having those conversations. Yeah. Um you look for patterns, you see the patterns. You do. So it back to like give to gain, because we were gonna come in here and there was a really good point of what do we think of that theme? And is it is it is it too much? Because it's true, women do give. We give a lot, we do, and and I would argue that men have not had to. I'm not saying that men don't, I'm saying men have not had to because of the system. We are a product of the systems that support us, and there's still a lot of work to be done. Um but when you read that out, I changed my mind entirely because of what the intention was. Because the in the intention within the context is it's it's not you women that we're talking to only. We're talking about everyone around you. Um and and and I believe that before the I I just I will use briefly the Olympics as a great example, that because I know I have people in my circle who have a different idea of the amount of gap that there is with respect to women equality, they'll say a lot. What do you mean? Like they are equal, because in their minds, in their households, their view of the females, there are it's it's very equal. Like I look at you equal, but unless you're experiencing the system that supports that and really looking at it, you don't understand it. I why I believe the Olympics and the men's hockey team was such a terrible but great example. Everyone unified in the understanding that oh my gosh, there's more of a gap than we thought. Because it was a case study in kind of what happens, and it brought us all back to oh wow. So give to gain took on new context. Yeah, under that example.

Credit, Mentorship, And Belonging

SPEAKER_00 18:28

If you said give give to gain to the men's hockey uh American hockey team, let's clarify the American. If anyone's been living under a rock and have not paid attention to this, but it's that if if they were giving to gain, if they gave more recognition and acknowledgement and humility and support and courageously braver bravery in standing up against a certain somebody, certain leader down south, yeah, they would have gained, yes, they would have gained more respect. And so would the women. Yes. The women would have gained all the same things, the same memory recognition, the same everything. So if you give it's it's um there's a mentality in a networking group that I was part of that one, it was a givers gain. So if you if you go into a mind, if you only but if you only give, if you go in wanting to gain from giving, it doesn't feel as generous. Exactly. But because it's not. But the inherent beautifulness is that when you give, you do gain. So when you give a gift at Christmas, you feel wonderful because you've made someone happy, like you love to give, but you gain something that's that's kind of unmeasurable. Yeah. But this is the same idea. So if you can support others, yeah. And in the same way, like I was thinking about um when we talk about giving, which is a topic you hear a lot, and I think we've talked about it on the podcast too, the mental load of women. So when people support you and help carry that load, they are giving to gain freedom for that person who is carrying the load, but also you probably get in b in in in return, you get a happier spouse, you get a more joyful time together because you gain time together. Like you gain if you you you both gain when you give. Yes. So it's an interesting topic. And it's interesting how both like if we read about how other people are celebrating or honoring International Women's Day, everyone's gonna have a take on the tagline give to gain. Because when you shorten something, it's always gonna get a little lost. Agreed, agreed, agreed. Can we talk about also something else I really was moved by yesterday was the land acknowledgement. Yes. So we're all used to Canadian land acknowledgements being part of events and um gatherings, um, and I think that's an important part. But the woman who got up and spoke about it took it to a whole nother level, which I have so much respect for. Like, I was like, this is impressive. This is like a beautiful example of to learn from. She read the land acknowledgement and then she kind of analyzed why indigenous experience is connected to the theme of today, and then put a lens on that and talked about the traditional indigenous matriarchy and how women were always seen as leaders within that culture. And just I thought, wow, that's just a great example of like if there was a rubric of how you measure 100%. That was an A. That was a four and a four. She didn't just read the land acknowledgement so that we could like have a check mark. She took that anyway and applied it to the theme of the event.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yeah, I really love that. I agree. I was moved by it. It was also a great reminder what International Women's Day is. It does allow us not to look at the future and where we want to go, but to look back to the past and those who came before us. And and I mean, I think as Canadians, we still have talk about a gap in kind of our acceptance and acknowledgement of um our role um with Indigenous peoples. But, you know, the one thing that's always been a beautiful um understanding is exactly what she described, which you just just described. In that their um how matriarchy was so important in and is so important. Um, but and it's not just that. I mean, you know, if you think of even other elements like um two-spirited peoples, like if you think of transgender, like, you know, indigenous, and and it's not just indigenous, it would be all those who this is not net new. I think that's what's important. Those are a lot of the conversations I'm sure you often have where, well, all of a sudden, where it's not all of a sudden, it is again celebrating what has always been there and and and combating a systemic, you know, um manipulation of the world. And so I agree that acknowledgement was beautiful. It was a a lovely reminder, and there's pride in that that um we are now carrying forward what women did for us previously. I think that's so important.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yeah. So here's a question because I think, or a comment about International Women's Day, because I don't think everybody we know are participants is participating in an International Women's Day event.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

No.

Performance Reviews And Bias

SPEAKER_00 23:50

The way that, you know, I don't want to call it a holiday, but it kind of is a holiday. Like in my mind, I'm like, ooh, sign me up for all the events. Like I start Googling, you're so good if it's gonna be around, like and I really enjoy I also love going and listening to people and learning and seeing different people's perspectives. But we were sitting at a table last night and with people we didn't know, and I asked the people, like, why are you here? And one person was there just purely on her own because out of interest. She was a librarian at a post-secondary education, and she's like, I'm just looking for something close to home. And it was also a fundraiser, so it kind of checked two boxes for her. But two people across the table from us were there just as neighbors, I think. They as somebody maybe was there for work, like she brought a guest, a plus yeah, exactly. So I think it's so I feel like we should encourage those in our circle at least to seek this out more actively and say, because I think a lot of people, their companies had bought tables or bought seats, and so they were there kind of as a team event for work. But did you go for fun? Like, did you buy the ticket because you wanted to help your fellow women be better or to help yourself, or or what was it? So I I feel like in the future I'm gonna do a better job. Like last year I went to a United Way International Women's Event and brought my daughter. Yes. And I'm like, when I did that, I thought, oh shoot, I should have brought her before. And there was like an Olympian speaking. Yes. And she was, oh, I didn't know that this had been. Inspired.

unknown 25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

So I think we need to do a better job of all of us looking for those act events, inviting our girlfriends and saying, okay, instead of you know, going out for dinner for dinner and doing that. I think we need to go to one of these something like this together so that we can, that's another example of rising up, right? Is making it people participate in those events.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

I think that's such a great point. Um, and and a that call to action to kind of round out this entire podcast and like what you know, is um, you know, we've talked about it now in the living left and and the 50s, and you do, you know, in essence, have capacity to do things and that looking at it differently and um using moments like this, International Women's Day, as a means to bring women together. And and out of the traditional, I love what you said, instead of going out for dinner, there was a table, the food was very good last night, the wine was fine, like there were raffle tickets, like that is I I agree. You do such a good job. I know that's definitely an area of growth that I can work on. And you bring more people into the fold, more women into the fold. Um, and and that really is what giving to gain is all about.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, I think that I agree. Like I'm gonna go on Thursday to the Halton Women's Place luncheon alone. I didn't even think to invite anybody. I just bought a ticket. So I'm like, I'll just go and I'll meet some people at the table. And that's I mean, that's the women's shelter in our place. So it's a fundraiser. It'll have a different message, it will be less entrepreneurial, probably, and more about honestly, women in crisis and which I need to remember. Yes, so important in our privileged world. Yes, I need to go and listen. Yeah, and so um, but I don't know if there's tickets. Maybe I should send that out to some friends and say it's at lunch, it's the middle of the day. So it's a little bit worky because it's the middle of the day.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

I think it's uh it's worth it. It's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

I love that. Okay, that's a takeaway. So love that. I am happy I am doing this with you, fellow female.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah, for sure, right? And now I'm gonna actually go Google again like what other small events are there that I don't know about. Good for you, or even this month. Make sure I don't know, all the books I read. I did a little analysis of it of 2025, I think. Well um, it 91% of the books I read were by women because I do. But that is what you do so well. Anyway, okay, well, happy international day women's day, friend. Yes, and wear purple, that's the color.

unknown 28:15

I know.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

I hope to improve there. Okay. I didn't wear it either. Have a good one. Goodbye.