Coaching, Cash Flow, And Business Loans That Help Women Scale

We sit down with Shelagh Cummins, founder and CEO of The Road to Seven, to talk about the career left turns that shape real businesses and the money decisions that make scaling possible. We dig into intuition, mentorship, and the practical math behind building profit, then we unpack why Shelagh built a term-loan fund for women after hearing “no” from a bank.

• Early digital entrepreneurship and the “mompreneur” era as a launchpad for women-led businesses
• One pivotal moment of feedback that creates permission to step up
• “False starts” reframed as pivots and paid learning
• Risk mitigation while building the next offer
• Removing emotion from numbers and treating finances as data
• The $30K month as a scaling benchmark
• The 30/30/30/10 split for pay, operations, taxes, and profit
• Common pricing traps in service-based businesses
• Why traditional lending algorithms miss how women often build companies
• How the fund works: GP and LP structure, term loans, repayment, and biweekly mentorship
• Why investing can blend returns with real-world impact

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Because what’s left isn’t less. It’s everything.

Transcript

Introductions And Why Sheila Matters

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Good morning. Hi, Tanya. Good morning, Emory. We have a special guest today. We're going to introduce Sheila Cummins. Hello, hello, Sheila. Well, hey, how are you? Thank you for having me. We are very happy to have you because we have well anyone who's been listening knows that we keep on bringing very smart, wonderful women in our lives and in our circle. And when they happen to also intersect with intersect with left turns, brilliant thinking, women in business. We're like, wait a second, those are super special friends to bring in. So you've been on our list from the very beginning. And so we're excited to have you here. So I don't know what's the best way to introduce you, Ashila. Like, do you want to introduce yourself actually?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Well, I could. Why not? You know, I I love the word smart. That's not one that I probably would have said myself. So to introduce myself, I'd say uh I'm the founder and CEO of the Road to Seven, and we have two distinct companies that we run. Uh, one is a coaching and training company, and we help women grow and scale their companies. We meet you where you are, we take you where you want to go on your road to seven and beyond. And then we also have a lending company that offers term loans to women that are at scale, and we're the first in Canada and actually the first in the US as well. Uh and it's really exciting.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Congratulations. Congratulations on that.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Well, and I think what I love is over the years, you and I have made various left turns in our career, and I think we have met up at certain points. And I don't even actually know where we very first met, but I do remember the very first time we had a meaningful conversation. I don't know if you remember this, like about what you were doing. So, Tanya, I don't think you know this story. So this is like way back in like the blogging mom preneur world, which really is a silly name. It should always just been business owner who happens to be female, but anyway, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Um hang on for a second, Amory. Do we want to give some context to the timing on this? Oh, it's years ago. It's like 15 years ago. Well, more than that, maybe 20. This was the time where Twitter was being introduced, and there is this new thing where if you connected what's you know, this this WordPress, this new thing called a blog where you can write and share your ideas with Twitter. I mean, we were there at the evolution of Instagram, we've been through the social media pioneers, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Yeah, 100% to put that in context here. It is true. It was quite, and the world was exploding. Marketing was exploding, corporations were trying to figure out what do you do with this new media type and these new now we have influencers, which which at the time were called mommy bloggers, which was well, if they were female and and young moms, but that was a whole new generation, which now I guess feels like the olden days of the world in many ways. And it was early digital media and digital transformation for companies, and and then there was a new world of entrepreneurs, entrepreneurship because you could you could share your ideas and monetize it, or there we were fighting for the monetization. Actually, so maybe we'll go back in times like fighting for monetization. I'll be like Nellie McClung fighting for like the women's right to vote. Like that's actually kind of it was fighting for monetization and not to give your ideas and your time away for free.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

And anyway, we there was a lot of conferences and like group settings where these original pioneer entrepreneurial mindset women were coming together. And I knew you through those groups, and but I remember there was one particular conference that you were up as kind of like an MC leader. It wasn't your conference, but you were you were helping someone with theirs. And I think you might have been pregnant or had just had a baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Nope. Pregnant. You're pregnant, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

And you were still teaching, you were still teaching, like in a school. And this was kind of like your passion you were doing. And I remember pulling you aside. I don't know if you remember this conversation, and I was like, you should not, you were doing, you were helping the leader of this organization. And I was like, you should be leading this. You have the charismatic, you have the vision. It's very evident to me in this setting. This should be your setting. You should, as you think about the next things in your career, should think about that. And I remember you actually gave me a hug and you were like, I don't, I just remember you were maybe I I totally said it out without being asked. So I remember thinking maybe I should be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Which is very surprising to anyone who knows Anne Marie.

From Early Social Media To Business

SPEAKER_03 5:24

You didn't ask me for that feedback, but I was like, someone just needs to tell you because all the glory was being put on the owner of the thing, and not I was like, there's my my left turn in it was that you had some really great skill in this area.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

You know, that day was pivotal in my journey, actually. Because I had already been dabbling in entrepreneurship. I'd I had this mommy blog that I'd yeah monetized, but I didn't love it. I had a tutoring company. Um, I wasn't actually teaching at that time. Um, I was home pregnant with our third. Um, and I would be home with my older two that were um 18 months apart. So you can imagine the gong show having two under two. Uh, and I would be home during the day, and then at three o'clock, we had this lovely young nanny who would come in and take over what I would call the power hours when everybody's at their worst. And I just go out and tutor for the evening and then come back at 7:30, and the kids were were washed and and in their jams, ready for a book, and I put them to bed, and it was like this beautiful glimpse of what could be. But that that conference was so fascinating in my left turn, you guys, because I had been doing corporate training for a while, and I had been you know building courses. My background, I have a master's in education, and curriculum teaching and learning is my specialty. So instructional design, curriculum development. And I had been developing these these um courses for a friend of ours who took a chance on me and he ran a national corporate training company and I was facilitating for him. And I just wasn't loving it because I wasn't connecting with the audience, and I'd get good ratings, like he'd get good feedback. Um but I didn't find it fulfilling because I didn't have that reciprocity because I hadn't lived their life, and that conference was for mum entrepreneurs, and I didn't even know that that was a thing at that time. And I was MCing, and what I did is in between each speaker, I would do a training segment that would sort of connect to the next speaker to set the audience up. And I remember standing up there, it was like 9:15. It started at nine, 9.15, and it was just this realization of oh, you know, and like in the movies, the character has that light bulb that goes on over their head. And I remember of, oh, I'm feeling them, they're feeling me. They understand what it's like to stand up here five months pregnant. Uh, most of them have already been there, they're actually listening to what I have to say, and I can tell stories because I never realized that I was running a business. I just was making money so I could stay home with my kids. So it was an absolute pivotal moment. And you you were one of the instrumental pieces that day that gave me permission to go and explore what this whole avenue looked like.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

I didn't know that was going on in your brain. I was just like, this woman is very talented in what she's doing and should pursue this.

unknown 8:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

And I'm not that good at sometimes keeping my mouth shut. So I'm glad that that and so that's I also got my first client that day.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

You did? Oh, someone came up to me and she was like, She lied, like, you know, I'd like to hire you. And I was like, Oh, you want me to speak to your group? Uh, what about? And she was like, No, I actually want you to help me with sales. And I was like, I've never done that before, I don't know what that looks like. And so I was like, Let's try it. And so there was no money exchanged, and I helped her, and she's now running a$27 million company. That's amazing. Isn't that fun?

SPEAKER_03 9:04

So is it but that a practice? Okay, yeah. So what were so those two things? Did they were your pivotal? They were the seed the road to seven.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Permission, and it was uh, hey, okay, let me just try my hand at this. Let me see what it's like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

And I think there's a real what I love about that kind of listening to both of you, um, is the intuition in when you feel that connection. So you were feeling the energy in the room, right? You were you just know what do they call it? They call it like um, oh there's a name. Yeah, but there's a name for it where when you're in your groove, basically. I mean, I guess at the basis, but there's your flow. Yes. Uh, when you're in your flow. And it, so clearly you, you know, you came in, you're in your flow, you're feeling the energy back and forth. And obviously, Amory is feeling that as well, right? Um, and I think the other important thing, and it's a great reminder, we've talked about it in previous podcasts, and obviously it's a theme, you know, even uh International Women's Day and kind of um give to gain and whatever. It's really important for people like an Amory to, you know, not to say but to solidify certain things. If you see something that someone is doing amazingly well, or you felt something, don't be afraid. Again, it's the permission. And then you add on to that, like, I just need to share this with you. Um, this was amazing. You should do this. I see that. Even if be unafraid, because sometimes that's the little, a little addition to what you already know that just helps move it forward. I think we can do that more and more, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

So I gave a keynote for International Women's Day this year, and I I talked about how there was something off about the topic of give to gain. And I said right off the top, I said, I'm gonna just tell you right now, I think it's insulting for me to ask you to give anymore. As anymore, we give all the time. And and and Anne Marie gave that day unasked, and and it was terrific. But at the same time, I was open to receiving it.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

And I think as women, we get so focused on where we think we're supposed to be that we forget to be open and to listen and to ponder and think and then try and be okay, not me having it work. I had a couple false starts after that, of course, but all of those were what I sort of call my MBA because I learned so much from each false start. And so the gain part of you know, the International Women's Day is how we show up and how we choose to take mentorship in. And one of them is being open to receiving the feedback, and then one of them is also taking the risk. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Which is what we love about the left turn in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

When you say false start, I'd love to hear your perspective of a false start. Because some people a false start is, oh, I thought about it and I made a couple of spreadsheets and it and it's not gonna work. And other people's false start might be a fully launched business that just didn't materialize the way they needed. Or some people would say the false start was the first quarter and then I changed my direction. Like, what is what do you mean? What do you mean by false start?

Permission, Flow, And Receiving Feedback

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah. So um I I started I kept so that it's a bit of a longer answer, so bear with me for a second. I had left teaching uh about a year earlier, and the deal in my house was I could leave teaching and not go back full salary, 98.6 was the number. Um, that's the salary that I left, full pension, full health, you know, beautiful school, great environment to be in. Um, but I wanted to be home with my kids, but I had to still be contributing financially into our house. So we knew how much I had to bring home. And so with every endeavor that I tried, what I couldn't lose is the amount that I had to contribute. And I'm gonna tell you, ladies, like there were some months I paid for the privilege of working. Literally every penny I did just went directly to the nanny or to the date or to whatever. I would say many, many business owners. That's how you start. It's how you start. So, you know, it I sort of got into the entrepreneurial world a little bit carefully. I started a partnership with someone else, and we had success with it, but there was something missing for me. So, you know, there was a beautiful segue where she wanted to go and do something else. I wasn't, it wasn't quite working for me. So we shut that down, launched another company where I was doing corporate training. That's where you and I crossed paths again. And Maria came and spoke to a group you were running. Um, and again, that worked until it didn't work anymore, and it just didn't feel right. Yeah. And so then I closed that down and I shifted to relaunching under my name and got a couple more certifications so that I could be better at what I did. And then I operated as Sheila Cummins for years, actually, until the pandemic, where I couldn't keep up anymore and it wasn't working anymore. So I, you know, again, it's that okay, it's not fulfilling, it's not working, it's not satisfying. What do I need to have happen to really jump back into joy? And so then it was opening up the brand of the Road to Savin, which allowed me to be bringing in different partners. And I for a little bit had a team of coaches that was working with me in my programs and it worked until it didn't work, and then it wasn't feeling good. So then I pivoted again and just, you know, came back to I'm running the program, but I have a whole support team behind the scenes. And, you know, those transitions were made possible because I was listening to my intuition. I was not willing to be unsatisfied and unhappy. And I was heavily coached through that with someone who was holding my hand and to your point, giving permission and opportunities to see what that next step and that growth and evolution could look like. Um, and you know, even back in 2022 when I finally pulled the trigger on opening a fund that offers term loans, there was something, it was just talking. There was the universe was talking, there were signs it wouldn't go away. It's like that earworm that keeps 100% planning. And you're like, fine. Listen! And it happened actually at my son's grade eight grad, my oldest son, we were invited to his friend's house for a barbecue with his friend group. And I was sat beside uh one of the dads, the host, and his name's John, and he was just sort of saying, Oh my god, I can't believe this just happened, and you know, and I don't know how it came, you know, I can't believe this just happened. Our kids are already through, you know, grade eight. And then I don't know how it came out, but he it kind of came out that he was opening a new office in London. And for some reason, something I'm actually very shy and I don't talk a lot at social functions, but something made me talk to him. I don't know what it was, and I kept asking questions. Well, didn't he run uh a lending company? And his space is very different from mine, and I just kept asking questions. Well, tell me, how did you start? Well, he started with 50,000 in the bank with one loan. And I was like, Okay. And I said, Well, you know, and I just kept asking. And he's like, Your very first thing to do is call a lawyer. So the next day I literally got on the phone with Andrea Bolden and I called her. She used to, she was Andrea Henry at that point. Um uh, and I said, Listen, this is my idea. What do I need to have in place to make it happen? And so, and how much is it gonna cost? So she told me how much it was, and I again just through the grace of the universe that play was restructuring uh a finance loan and had a a chunk of change that I could actually take and put into this fund to start. And it covered her fees as well. And I was like, oh my god, here we go. It's just all working. It just worked, but it was just that what's my one next step? Yeah, those earworms are so powerful, and I think if we if it's so easy to ignore them, yes, and I uh you could have, but I I agree with you.

Pivots, False Starts, And Safer Risks

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I mean, I live my life by those earworms, as you call them. Um I don't call them, but I really do we do. But the how you're referencing the universe to me is exactly like I speak about that in all aspects of all things. And I think Anne Marie and I are very similar in in in starting left turn, certainly in in in our trajectory. Um everything you're saying is so very familiar. And I just think it'll be familiar to a lot of people who are listening as well, who, but it is easy to ignore those things. I think a couple of key themes. Yes, it's if if something keeps showing up, like pay attention. Like there's there's there is a reason, right? But you're trying to find a flow. But I think the other thing for you, which I'm hearing is the decisiveness in a lot of what you do, which I think is underestimated. Um, and people say that, like in general, right? Success is the is is the is often an action, right? Doing the things. But I say this to Amory all of the time. I say our superpower, and I think it's I'm hearing it from you and from others, is is the unafraid in the moment to make the decision. You said the next, the next step. Like, don't worry about the 10 steps. It's like, this is in front of me. This is this is right. It's it's like there's a piece over you, you know, just take that next step, and then the next step will appear. And I think once you see kind of that path in front of you, it's like a map that happens in your brain. It's hard to unsee that again. So I think your decisiveness is an important thing for people to understand as well. It's just right, would you agree? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah. I mean, I'm a type A goal-oriented person. And sure. One of my, you know, I think on the Colby, I'm like a three or four quick start and like another and a half follow-through. Like you can't get somebody, like I kind of fit the profile of the of I'm the opposite, right? So many entrepreneurs are the quick start and then they don't follow through. I'm the opposite. So you're the both.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

I'm like, because we're we're two coins to a fault sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

But the other thing I think is important to mention here, yes, there's a decisiveness, but I also mitigated the risk as I was doing it. So of course, there's an element of burning the bridge when you leave the island. Like, of course. Of course, but I also think that there's ways of taking that next step and mitigating the risk. So before I went into a full partnership, I was still tutoring every night until I had enough money coming in through the partnership to cover what I would have made. And then I it's pragmatic. I slowly started building up the next step while I had the current one. And, you know, even with the fund, like I, you know, I'm I'm at that cross sections where I'm like, all right, I'm ready to go all in. Um, and I just have to figure out how to make the money that I have been making through my other programs and bring that together with the fund. Yeah, that's that evolution. And I think we can we have to be open to change because look at what just our world is going. I mean, and Anne-Marie and I were just talking about, you know, we were there at the dawn of social media. Look at it now, and here we are at the dawn of AI. What's it gonna look like in 15 years? We don't know. But if we're not open to growth and evolution and looking at what the next step could be, but I think we can do it while mitigating risk. 100%. 100% 100%.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

And when you first started, you talked about the term fall start, and I actually would change it. It's not there all have been pivots up the same mountain. They and they're not there, it's just a turn. It's like a small turn to get you to the next thing. I want to hear more about the fund because I know we talked about with you, I think, when you were first launching it. Probably it's that long ago now that I think about it. Um, and then I also want to hear more about the coaching practice because I think that's just interesting. But talk to us about so you you got the fund started just by this kind of your money, you you invested and explain how that works because many people will not understand or will or don't know. They haven't probably not that they won't understand.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

And Sheila, not to interrupt, but another observation I've had, this is what I do in these podcasts. I just notice things, and I was like, you are so very good at naming numbers. Like when you said, and I think that's important as females. You're smiling because I think you know what I'm saying. Like you were talking about the business that you helped grow and you named the number. I think it was 27 million. Then you talked about your salary, you named the salary, and I just in the insights that you talk about this lending, I just think that's so important for everyone, but women in particular. I just, it's a note, and I I'm impressed and I admire it. And I've taken note that I need to do better in that area. Go on.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Well, thank you. I hadn't noticed it. And the the irony, I think it's like the you know, slow learner in math. Numbers are actually not my strength. But what is my strength is making numbers, right? Like making money is is something that I believe women underestimate. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

So yes, I do know the numbers because I've been on both sides of the coin. You know, I've been on the coin where I don't know how to, you know, buy milk and bread for my kids. And I've been on the side of the coin where I am paying three different tuitions for kids. So sure. I I have been and live on both sides of the coin. And when you've been in that place so close to the edge, uh your only ticket out is knowing your numbers. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

That's so true. There's no other way. And it just comes down to numbers. And I think we have to remove the emotion from a numbers. Numbers are just numbers, they're just binary, they're ones and zeros, they have no story behind it. You know, and I heard somebody say once, you know, revenues, numbers are the the only story behind numbers are the story you give it. And so one of the things that I am now, 20 years later, very good at is removing any emotion from a number. So if I get a big chunk of change into my business account, I have the exact same feeling as if I'm looking at it and it's been zero for a couple of weeks. There's no difference in emotion, it's just data. Yeah. But I've been heavily coached to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Of course. And I it's just there's a there's a nuance that I noted in the way in which you were you were talking in your storytelling. So for me, it was an intentional, wow, that that is what I take away is when people speak about things, I'm like, oh, that's a little growth area for me to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

I uh one of the things that is a universal truth about business, but gets torn apart so often is the benchmark of a$30,000 month.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

When I talk about a$30,000 month, half the people in the room are like, oh my God, there's like that's so far out of my realm of understanding. The other half is like, yeah, I did that on Tuesday. Right. And so the$30,000 month in a company is kind of that cornerstone of where we can shift to scale. Because if you take the revenue and you break it up into different pockets, that gives you, you know,$10,000 to pay yourself. And the reason I only use the word$10, this is just like arbitrary. It's arbitrary, but it's just a pattern. It's not set in stone. Because I hear everybody wants to make six months, six figures. And I'm like, do you want your company to make six figures or you want to be paid six figures? Yeah. Well, I want to get paid six figures. No problem. We just need to 3x the revenue in your company then. So that 36,000 360,000 gives you 10,000 to pay yourself. So you have your six figures. Yeah. That gives you 10,000 to put into your operating costs so that you can start getting the softwares, the automatic the automations, the team, the people power that you need so that you can grow and scale.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

And then it gives you 10,000 to put into your taxes and into a profit account. And it just, you know, for some people that cornerstone's 20, for some it's 50. It doesn't really matter, but knowing that cornerstone is so critical for women. And we either underestimate it or overestimate it. And what we do is we attach a story to that number.

unknown 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

And that's the splits are key.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

The splits are key that you're saying too. Do you he did you catch that, Tanya? Like I feel like from the very beginning of our left turn, we've always said a third, a third, a third.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Because you have to divide to compensate yourself to run the business and invest in the business. And then your costs that you can't get away from, like you said, your taxes or whatever. Like I call it 30, 30, 30, 10.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Like 30, 30, 30, 10. 30% you pay yourself, 30% goes into your company, 30% gets put away for taxes, and 10% goes into profit. Yeah. And then we give the profit a purpose. Yeah. So I want the profit to be, I want to become an investor. I want to pay myself a bonus. I want to go on a vacation. I want to do whatever with it. Yeah. Profit has to have a purpose, or we don't leave it there. So I think 30 30 10 is uh 30 30 30 10 is sort of the formula that I love that use with my women just to get them started thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

That was a good takeaway.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

So okay, we're gonna talk about the fund in a bit, but I have some we're talking about so in your coaching practice, how many of those uh entrepreneurs who you're coaching right now? Because I believe your practice is pretty much all female entrepreneurs, right? How many of them are are are they putting those are they coming to you with those practices in place or you're coaching them through these recommendations? Are they coming like talk to us about some of those women? I mean, anonymously, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

For sure. I mean, I I think I'm gonna just talk about trends and patterns. Yeah, yeah, it's that um, you know, I think that there's a pattern to not look at your numbers or know your numbers and just hope to how you're gonna make it work. And I think that lasts and is fine for up to up to the point that it's not anymore. Yeah. Um, and I think again, because of the story we have attached to numbers, um, a lot of the women are charging rates that are actually unsustainable and they're either even yeah, they're breaking even, they're they're working at a loss, or they're just you know, dollar in, dollar out, and there's never anything extra. And it's the profit that's the fun part of this whole entrepreneurship, and it's the piece that's underestimated the most.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Yeah.

Know Your Numbers Without Shame

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Like the profit is where the I call them fun tokens because that is like it's not accounted for. It's it's it's accounted for, but it doesn't, it has a job to for you to do what you want with it, whether you want to donate it or split with your team or invest or whatever. It's fun. And uh, you know, there's so many people that are dollar in, dollar out, and and I was for years. So it's not a you know, I'm not standing on a pedestal saying I'm amazing and great. I'm just saying there's an opportunity to be looking at our cash flow and understanding what we're selling and the cost of us doing business is sometimes greater than the business.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Yeah, and when there's no profit, that's when the harder decisions have to be made.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

It's just it's not fun.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Yeah, there's no joy there.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Correct. Correct. And so one of the first things we do is we revamp people's offer because that's the backbone of your company. And so we rewire the offer, we make it stronger, we look at how to deliver it in a very uh effective and efficient way, and then we look at the pricing behind it, and then we challenge the beliefs that people bring. And, you know, a lot of women that start there are very few accountants that are starting their own company who understand cogs and taxes and the whole thing. You know, as women, we tend to start companies because we're either sick of corporate, we need more time, you know. We both, all three of us are in the sandwich generation, we've got kids, we have parents, uh, and our time is very precious. And you know, when we look at the reasons that people start that women start companies, we also have to look at the types of companies that women start. They're service-based, which I was just gonna ask you, yeah. Yeah, most are service-based, some are product-based, but a service-based business, the cost to entry is very, very low. Yeah. A product-based, you have to have a product, so there's a cost associated from the beginning. And so the trick with the service-based business is pricing can be somewhat arbitrary. So we go into trading her time for money, yeah. But we also put numbers on that we're comfortable with. And we can all look at our own spending patterns and comfort with money. There are some people who are very comfortable having a bank balance of negative 15,000. There are others who are very comfortable being dollar in, dollar out every month. And there's others who are very comfortable and are only comfortable if they have a buffer of 15,000 sitting in their bank. And so we all have different relationships and comfort with money. And then when you bring that into the pricing and you look at it subjectively versus how much do I need to charge so that I can stay in business? We just forget to look at the data because of the emotion and the discomfort that it opens. Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

So are you at what point are people finding you to because are I'm assuming I'm making an assumption? Are they finding you when they're already in their journey and they find a spot that is like touchy and they need some help out of it? Or are they coming from the beginning and realizing I can't do this alone and I may not have a partner, but you could be a partner?

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yeah. So there's two layers to the answer to that. You know, from a price point perspective, our lowest um investment is$47 a month. And then it goes up from there. So price-wise, we can meet you where you are. But from a company standpoint, I do best when somebody has something already. They just need it finessed and fine-tuned. So I'm not really, I don't really want to have the conversation with people of, well, what are you really good at? What brings you joy? I think there's a lot of people who do that very well. I'm a structural and technical thinker, and then I have this added bonus of you know, an emotional side to it. I understand the emotion that is involved with running a company. So I can come at it from those angles, but I prefer to have something already that's already there, something tangible.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

You have something to work with.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

So then tell us about the fun because my understanding is when the it was also inspired by your coaching women who don't who don't have access to to to investment.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah. It actually came from me going to get an investment. I have a productivity planner, which I don't have. Oh yes, I do, which I have right here. And when I wanted to design and print this iteration of it, I went to the bank asking for a$10,000 loan. This was in 2019. And I had been in in business for eight years. I'd been profitable. I had 30% growth year over year. I'd been over six figures for a couple of years at that point. And they said no. And I was like, what the fuck? And uh, we've been there too.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

It's so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

It is, but you know, now I understand that a bank has a certain algorithm that they they look at very specific data points to approve or disapprove a loan. And the way the companies that women tend to build don't really fit that algorithm because it was built back in 1950. Yeah. So that is why it's not like we hate women, it's not like that at all. It's just that the algorithm hasn't the mold is wrong.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

The mold is incorrect, the system is right.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

They just haven't updated it. And so so when I went to the loan, the answer was no. I didn't have a great credit rating.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Storm the castle.

The $30K Month And Profit Splits

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah. So unfortunately, the guy who came to work that day was probably still sorry that he came to work that day. But he said, Sheila, I'm really sorry, but you have not been approved. Would you be open to having your husband co-sign the loan? And then I looked at him and I was like, My husband is not on my company records anywhere. I'm showing you a completely viable. We have also been here. Yeah. Oh, but then he's like, Oh, okay. Well, what about your dad? Could your dad co sign? But what's so fascinating is it's my mom who's been my biggest investor to date when I was really strapped. She's the one who saw the potential and was like, I'll lend you the money. And she's incredibly savvy. And she's like, and this is the interest that I'm going to charge for it. And I was like, totally fair. I'm all in. Yeah. So that was she micro-lended you the money. Kind of she micro lended to me. And I was like, I wonder how many people are in this same predicament as me. And as I realized, and as I talk about this more and more, I would say 100% of the women who have been very successful in business are very empathetic with what started this fund. Accurate. Yeah. How does the fund work? So I'm what's called a general partner or a GP. And I run the fund. Final save the fund is me. And I'm doing this because I look at it as a pot of money. Yeah. I have limited partners or LPs who lend money to me for four years. I pool that capital and then I lend it out in smaller increments to the women who apply and who qualify. They pay us back with interest. And the interest I can't match the BDC because we're not government-backed. This is completely uh Cummins and Company Capital Incorporated. Um, this is my company. So we don't have the benefit of anybody else backing us other than the LPs. So we're higher than if you were to get a bank loan or a line of credit, and we're lower than if you use your credit cards. We come in right in the middle. And what I love about our model is yes, you're paying interest on a loan, but you're also receiving mentorship. And every two weeks we talk, and you have the community that's all our of other lenders who are all at similar stages of business going through similar challenges. And so the collective wisdom of women in that group and the mentorship make this a very viable business offer. And so the women who lend to me are earning a terrific return on their investment over four years, and we're slowly building the fund. And admittedly, it's at the early stages still. We need two zeros on it for it to be noteworthy, but yeah, that's okay. That's that is the growth of uh you got to start somewhere. And as John said, you know, it started with one loan. We have eight loans out, and we have a hundred percent compliance on repayments. Amazing. And our last loan, our last loan, sorry, went out. This is one thing I'm super proud of. Our last loan was granted without bringing in a new LP. So the fund is starting to sustain itself, and then we were able to lend that out again. So that was a really exciting milestone.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

That's amazing. So the every two weeks you meet with the people the lenders or the lendees? The borrowers. The borrowers. Yeah. So the lenders are welcome to join, but the borrowers are where my focus goes. So the eight borrowers come together with each other, and they are supporting one. And are their businesses similar or are they just connecting on a no, they're all different business.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

We have um we have a school, we have a furniture developer, we have a marketing agency, uh therapy clinic, um, a medical product, um uh uh somebody in the financial space. Um just totally different. Totally different, but the cost that they have the same issue. They needed a chunk of change to be able to invest somewhere in their growth, and they're all getting an ROI on that investment. So we're pretty particular about where the money goes. Like we don't really want to lend so you can take a course. I think we're all smart enough, and there's a lot of great courses out there, but they all have payment plans. So I don't think you need to lend from us and they'll have a better deal on it. Like, you know, if the most people have borrowed so that they can hire.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah. Yeah, they want to they're they're in scaling, they're using it to scale. And so, what's the average amount of the loan that those small businesses are borrowing?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Uh, anywhere from 10 to 50,000.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Anywhere from 10 to 50. And then in terms of lenders, I know there's like a minimum, and I mean I'm assuming there's no mass. So walk us through that because I feel like our circle could be quite interested in well on both sides, both as a lender and as a borrower. So as a lender, because if you need two zeros on this fund, we want to help you get those two zeros. Thank you. So, how so what's the messaging? So, women are looking to invest because it's not just a borrow, like they're getting they're getting return, but they have to put the money for four years.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

That's right. So it's important to note that we're not taking any equity stakes in the companies we're lending to because those companies are too too small, and they probably, with the exception of one, will never be big enough for an equity investment. And I think that there are quite a few funds that are opening for women that are women-centric and they're doing a terrific job. Yeah. This is a lot of the women that are lending to me have been successful in business and wish that someone had that this was available for them when they were coming up. And you know, the goal, my goal is for women to it's kind of twofold. For one, yes, it's giving money into the hands of people who need it, but it's also an opportunity for women to understand and see what earning a return on your money can do. And it's a great lower risk investment than if you were to invest in an equity fund. So the the statistics behind that are one in seven investments will be a unicorn, meaning it's gonna go big and you'll make a ton of money. That means six of the seven you'll probably lose money on. We have a hundred percent repayment in our loans to date. Everybody is making money. And I know that there will come a time where something's gonna happen. I'm not delusional. We have safeguards in place for that. Yeah. But this is like you can invest in a mutual fund and not know where the money's going, or you can invest in this fund and know where your money's going and know that you are playing at the cornerstone of philanthropy and profit.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

And that is where we want to play.

Pricing Fixes For Service Businesses

SPEAKER_03 40:55

Yeah. That's the sentence right there is you can invest in whatever, or you can invest essentially in people's lives and goals and in the Canadian economy. That's right. Right there with someone in a meaningful basis. That woman can then scale her business, then maybe she can invest in her daughter who was doing whatever. Like, that's the whole thing. Like, then that 10% of her profit. And then what I also love is that you're meeting with them on a bi-weekly basis. So not only are they just borrowers, like when you borrow from the bank, you know, they want to see that they want your financial statements once a year, but they're not coaching and investing, they're not invested in a mentorship circle, anything like that. Like, so you're also helping them become better at what they do.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Yeah, it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

It's a beautiful, beautiful win-win.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

And it really is so satisfying.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

That's so great. Congratulations. That's amazing. How many LPs do you have?

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Uh, we got a handful. And I'm talking to someone tomorrow. And I mean, I've never had this before. I told her the minimum, and she kind of came back and was like, Well, what would happen if I doubled that?

SPEAKER_04 42:08

And I was like, Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Yes. Yeah. What is the minimum?

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Uh, it's 50,000.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Minimum is 50,000. So, but I think that that's like the more we talk about it and talk about it and talk about it. Like, I mean, it's a weird economy. Not everybody people have investments. Like they are, or they come into money or they come into whatever.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Like, and I think people are more aware, well, I wouldn't say aware. I think we were always aware, but intentional about finding that opportunity, especially women. Again, the story you told is there's familiarity and all of that. We have the same story. And I think that's, you know, um, conversations we've had as well is under it was that basis. Like you want to help when you get to a point that you're able to. I think a lot of people listening to this will be like, yes, I've been thinking about that, but no one knows how. Like, kudos to you. Like, you've you've taken it to a point where a lot of us are like, okay, wonderful. The structure's there. Like, how can I get in and what can happen? Um, so I just think it's a beautiful thing. Every time you talk about it, Sheila, I'm like, gosh.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

And you can invest, you can invest on a personal level. So like Anne Marie could could invest, but left-turn strategy also could invest as a company. That's right, right? That's right. So, like so people who are listening, if you own a company and the company's profit, instead of sitting in the bank earning nothing, waiting, as long as you're comfortable with the long, like the four-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yeah, it's a long-term game. And there is risk involved. I mean, I think you know, we can't there is risk involved, it's just a lower risk than if you were going to be an equity investor.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Yeah. But I think it's the feeling good part of it, I think is underestimated. Like that's and how many, and I don't know, what is do you know the numbers? Like, how many small businesses are owned by Canada, by women in Canada? Probably enormous.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Oh, I did know the number. It's a higher percentage than men.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Yes, for sure it would be. Um, and small businesses are the lifeblood of this country. Of the economy.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

But I think we've got to remember that small business goes from zero to thirty million.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

I know it is. Right?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

So it's a huge thing. But I think that the number that I focus on is only two. Of women owned companies get over seven figures.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Only two percent of women owned get over seven figures. So make only a million, make only two percent get over a million.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

So women own the micro business space, but they don't own the small business space. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Yeah, because micro is part of small. So ninety-eight percent of women-owned businesses are smaller than a million dollars.

unknown 45:00

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

Because likely a lot of those small businesses are just her.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

Yeah, they're solo.

Why Banks Say No

SPEAKER_03 45:08

They're solo entre and they may have a couple of contract partners, like they may not have employees. They may which also means they don't so when you hear all these government funded programs and they need to be just like women-owned businesses generally don't hit that minimum, or they don't have they don't have the payroll and they don't hit the half a million dollar mark for a lot of these large business, like large um government programs to self-support, which is that's an interesting, really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Yeah. The other problem is only 12% of women-owned businesses get over six figures. Only 12% get over six. So they're less than 88% are running micro businesses that are understanding. Under$100,000. And if we go back to the 30, 30, 30, 10 money breakout, that means 88% of women are paying themselves or less than on the poverty line. And that is the piece that I think is criminal. That's mess.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

You're blowing my mind right now. So 88% of businesses owned by women are under 100,000. That's because probably okay, so now I'm gonna brainstorm here. Is that because most historically women are trading her time for money? So she's like she's opening up the home daycare or she's doing she's doing she's she's doing something to kind of bring in extra dollars, but it's still probably her main like is it on the side or no? This is still her main gig.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

We don't know where it could be, but it's everything, it's everything, but it's it's a business structure issue, and it's also a earning issue. This is why pricing is so critical. Yeah, you can be at you know uh a hundred thousand or under and have ninety percent profit on that. Yeah, you know, it can cost you 10% to run versus uh you know a restaurant that runs at a two percent profit market. For sure. So, you know, you can have a profitable company, but uh there comes a point where you run out of hours.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

Yeah, well, she's buying herself a job, is what she's doing. She's self-employed, and yeah, she's buying and and then she's great if it works for you, yeah. And she's probably still the main caregiver in a traditional marriage, and so therefore she's not able to give it more time capacity of care. She can't scale it because, as you said earlier, you know, you're paying for the privilege to work, so she doesn't have as much flexible depending on where she lives or what she's doing. But if she's netting a$50,000 business at the end of the day, she doesn't have the money to pay for the child care, she doesn't have the money to invest in her companies. You got it, and that's that's so she it's like quicksand, she just can't get out of that cycle until maybe she gets to the life stage where we're we kind of all are in, which is like this midlife conversation when you pop your head up and realize, wow, there's a lot more hours in the day because you don't have as many small children running around. So you're not losing it, like there's no hole in the bucket. So I wonder how I wonder if there's I wonder if women are age like in the 58-ish, like 45 and above, how many of those women are starting businesses? Or if these 88% of them are in those child rearing years? I'd be curious on that data.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

I mean, part of it is just my life stage as well, but in my programs, I would say over 90% are over the age of 45, and they're at that later stage of teen year children. Yeah, that's when they started. Yeah, but I'm not at the tip, so you know, I'm not attracting the young 20-year-olds, like which is fine, which is fine. Like I've been there, I've done that. You know, I think we kind of tend to serve people we can relate to, yeah. Totally. Which is where I started with the whole conference thing, just to bring us full circle. Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

Yeah, we've grown, you've grown with your audience. I have. We've all grown fantastic. We've all grown. This is my brain, my brain is gonna keep going. So thank you, Sheila. This is we need to come up with some ideas on how we can help this fund grow. Because if we can help this fund grow, then you know, if the minimum investment is 50,000 and the average borrow is 10 to 50, one investment could possibly help five entrepreneurs, right? So it's like one in five. So what is so I know I know your type A. So what are the goals? So, like how many women do you want to help with in the next year or two? Like, what are you needing to get? Um I'm gonna get on a mission here, Sheila. Like, how can we help?

SPEAKER_00 49:55

So I'll I will be a three million dollar fund in three years, and in six years I'll be a$30 million fund and ready for some.

unknown 50:02

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Yes, I love that. I also love how you just said I will be. There's no like goofing around about my goal is loosely no.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

No, I'm in my 50s. I'd like to retire someday, and this is a beautiful retirement plan.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Yes, it is. It is still 30 million by in six years. So in 2031.

How The Fund Scales And Closes

SPEAKER_00 50:25

And you know the interesting part about that is if I had stayed teaching, I would have retired in 2032.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

So you just yeah, pivot. Isn't that amazing?

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yes, that is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

It's all worked out. It's fantastic. Oh, anyway. Fantastic. Thank you. Well, thank you, Sheila. This was great. I could keep I have so many.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah. This was a good one. Well, let's do it again. We must, we must, we must. And I think people who are listening, um, there'll be a lot of food for thought for a lot of on both ends, on all ends actually, that you brought to the table today. So thank you with that.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Well, I think our next conversation should be about women's resistance to taking on loans and investing in themselves. But that's a topic for another day.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Not for today.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

No, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Write that down.

SPEAKER_03 51:13

Oh, and why are they? Why are they resistant? Well, I guess it depends. As you said, are you comfortable with 15,000 in your bank or negative 50? And if you borrow, then you perceive it as negative.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

That is definitely our next podcast. Well, that is thank you, Sheila. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

I want to keep talking, but 10 minutes to go because we have a meeting in two minutes. Which is also time to run my my my mentality.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Sheila also needs to come and do it.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

Okay. I know, I know. All right.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Thanks, Sheila. Have a great one. Thank you for having me. Okay.