Big Gorgeous Goals Even in Uncertainty

We talk with Julie Ellis, co-founder of Mabel’s Labels, about what happens after a major win when you still feel lost, grieving, and unsure of your next move. We unpack Big Gorgeous Goals, midlife left turns, and how to build time freedom and purpose without waiting for life to feel “certain.” 

• Leaving a successful business and feeling unqualified anyway 
• Grief after an exit and the pressure to feel only gratitude 
• Why high expectations create paralysis and how “trying things” creates clarity 
• The midlife pattern of entrepreneurship and Gen X burnout 
• Big Gorgeous Goals as the umbrella over smaller goals 
• Moving forward in uncertainty instead of waiting for security 
• “Pools of support” and telling the right people your goals 
• Why leadership growth matters as much as strategy when scaling 
• Pocket Coach and getting help in the moment 
• Building businesses in today’s noisy market and what AI-first search changes 
• Time freedom as a real goal you can design now 
• Third-act repurposement and bringing back what your soul liked 

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Because what’s left isn’t less. It’s everything.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Julie Ellis

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Hi, Tanya. Hey Amberie. How are you today? We're good. Here we are. We have a new guest today. Julie Ellis here to join us on our Living Last podcast. So we're recording and we're going. So here I'm so excited to be here. We're happy you're here too. Um, we were just previously chatting. We realized we needed to record because we were getting a little having too much fun with no one else about to be part of it.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

So we want to start off a little bit. We you've been living left turns for a long time. And before I and Tanya and Julie, you have met. I've introduced you before, right? We have met the last 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

It's been, I was just saying, it's been a few years, but it feels like it was just yesterday. But yes, we absolutely did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

And then Julie, you and I crossed paths originally through Mabel's. Many years ago through Mabel's tables. And then, like, there's been a few interconnections as you were turning left, I was turning left, we would bump in. Um, so why don't you introduce yourself? Sure. Give us a little bit about you so we don't make the assumption. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yeah. So I'm Julie Ellis, and I am one of four co-founders at Mabel's Labels. And I left a job as a financial planner after we started that business. Um, we grew it up to about 40 people and eight figures of revenue before we sold it. And after we sold, I kind of I was the one, uh, my co-founders joked I would stay forever and you know, go and drink coffee in a boardroom and generally be a nuisance there for the rest of my life. But instead, after we sold the business, I ended up leaving after six months. And that kind of sent me into a bit of a spiral. I wasn't really sure what I was supposed to do next. And I felt even though we had uh sold a very successful business and I had done a lot of things, I felt like I wasn't sure why anybody would hire me next. You know, I led finance, I'm not an accountant. I led IT, I am definitely never written a line of code and never will. Uh, led our retail business. So I had like a lot of really good knowledge about things, but nothing at a really, really like deep personal contributor level. Yeah. At a founder level. At a founder level. Yeah, at a founder level of running things. And so I I really struggled. And I also struggled because I was worried about failing at the next thing I did after a big success. And it really got me stuck. Um, and as I started getting unstuck, I went and ran a business for somebody else, which was a lot of fun. Uh, great team, great brand. But it it was the thing that made me realize that really I wanted to build something for myself. Um and you know, it made me also realize like big goals and then a real downturn and then coming back to myself. Um, like why? What's the difference between people who do these really big things and people who kind of never get off the starting gate? Like, what is it that makes us different and why does that happen? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

My gosh. And I'm listening to your to um, which I knew elements of it, but I'm thinking I'm looking at Anne-Marie because it's a similar kind of path. That's where we're gonna get into um kind of uh insights and and things that we we feel intuitively, I think in particular as women, as we, you know, we're very in touch with ourselves. We may not have the words, but what you're saying, Julie, as uh, you know, I I was questioning what's next. And and I do think at a deep level, women do that all of the time. And Anne-Marie, you were the same. Like, you know, well, you know, coming off of your last business and then going to work for a company and realizing, okay, now I kind of have better clarity, um, is just such an interesting pattern for both of you. So my question to Julie was, you know, how did you work through some of that? I'm assuming there was doubt, but like, did you intuit, like now that you're on the other side of it, did you kind of know, but maybe didn't have the words, or were you literally just like, what's next in front of me? And I'm just gonna find my way. Because I think a lot of people struggle with that.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

A lot of women in particular. It was, it, it turned into like having less expectations of myself, kind of because the more expectations I piled on, the more frozen I got, right? And and so I had to sort of let go of that and be like, I'm gonna try some things here. And and so, and trying things is, you know, it was fun, and I really was able to make a difference, and it also really helped me get clear on what I wanted.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah, what I was just thinking, what was going on in your life at home? I was actually thinking about that at the same time because did because were you was your family like they were still at home when you were making decisions?

SPEAKER_03 5:38

My kids were like at that time, they were like 17, 15, 11.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Okay. So still high transition, but not transitioning entirely because that I do think that that's another layer. Well, that all people, but I think particularly mothers, when you're in tran you are in flux and then your family is in flux, and then prioritizing that you also deserve the attention to make the big decisions, etc. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Yeah, and trying to figure out what to do. Like, I think also I was tied up in this, like, because I never thought I would leave Mabel's, so I was going through a grief process about leaving, but I was I I couldn't reconcile that with the gratitude I should feel for being an entrepreneur who was able to sell her business because that is meant to be the pinnacle of your entrepreneurial journey. And and it was for sure, but I couldn't reconcile those two things together.

After The Sale: Grief And Doubt

SPEAKER_03 6:37

So I didn't know how to talk about it, and so I just didn't, which set me on a not great course uh for quite a long time, over a year. Um, and then the other thing with leaving was the people who stayed were incredibly busy with the new rhythm that was required. And so I sort of like destabilized my whole life all in one kind of fell swoop. Yeah, because the four of you, you all made different choices. We all made different choices, and the people who stayed behind were working really, really hard. And then what I was missing actually didn't exist anymore. And so, like, it's a very complicated, it was a complex set of emotions for sure. Um, yeah, and and then it's easy to sort of like just diminish yourself in all of that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Of course, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It all becomes, you know, what could I have done differently? What should I be doing better? There's obviously something I can fix, I can fix, I can fix, where I think the beauty of where we are now, whatever our journey has been up to this quote unquote midlife area, is the hindsight to say, wow, um there I could, you know, imagine if I could have just been in that moment. And just to your point, the the exercise is to just let go of what we've put on ourselves, but obviously society has put on us, and as a working moms, and that whole expectation. So now you're able to bring that forward to women now who are going through. I mean, it's age-old. This is regardless of your age, but in particular, there tends to be a cadence that happens as women get slightly to a point, maybe kids are leaving. There's a a driver in your case, selling a business, some transit, there's a transition or a pause, whatever you want, a left turn that happens, whether forced or brought to you, or you choose it. Um, and you said something very interesting before we jumped on and said we need to start recording. You said, because Amory kind of, and this is my paramenopausal brain because I know it was something amazing, but I can't remember the words. But you said, Amory, people are choosing it. And uh Julie, you said, well, is it this or is it something else? Right. About that.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Yeah.

unknown 9:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

So Amory, you were talking about people who are going to clarify what it was. But we were talking about people who are coming into entrepreneurship at a later entry point in life in their in their 50s, 40s, 50s, 60s, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

That's my curiosity is I feel I feel, and I I don't know stats, but I feel as if there's kind of um two prominent, but maybe three times when people come in, women come into entrepreneurship. There's the rare people who start off knowing they're going to be an entrepreneur right away, which I feel that is a minor, smaller set. Then there's the people that are working

Why Midlife Triggers A Left Turn

SPEAKER_00 9:47

for somebody else, have a good idea, they've they've learned some skills, and then they take the jump. Generally, I feel those those women anyway take that jump before they have established two minutes goal, what I would call golden handcuffs. Like they've done it before they've they've gotten to a point where they actually can't. And then so let's and then I feel then if they didn't take it then, they wait. They wait until um they're in that third act of their career where maybe they're closer to retirement, they're not retirement, they've they've maybe gotten rid of some of their responsibilities or they've saved up enough of a nest egg to feel they can leave those responsibilities, and then they launch. So that was my theory is I felt like the midlife is that third person. My interpretation is is that perhaps those women have prioritized this dream of starting something and put it in there. And that was my question is do you see that because they feel more free? And you kind of were like, well, maybe, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

So yes, I think that some of them do. Um, definitely, you know, they reach a point, yeah, there are their kids finished university, are their kids kind of fled like launching themselves, and so they have the more freedom financially and freedom of time to be able to think about it. But I also think there are women, Gen X women in particular, which is me, um, where you know we we were told when we came out of university that we would never be able to be that successful because the baby boomers were gonna block us. It was such a big generation, we were gonna be blocked from being truly successful, climbing the ladder, all the things. And I think that the women, Gen X women who've been very successful corporately, have put their heads down and worked damned hard. And and they're tired. I see a lot of people who are questioning, you know, why what it all meant and what it was all for. Yeah. And and leaving that because they're burnt out and they're not really sure where the purpose lies and what they've been doing, and and want to kind of find that meaning. And so they're looking to use the skills they have to transfer them into something they can build for themselves. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

I would believe I feel very I fall very squarely in that space. That is a trajectory at 100%. And it's just allowing yourself the space to start to question. Um, and and and it is, you know, I always use the analogy of I always Hammer is like you've said it on almost every podcast, uh, but it's like the matrix, and that you are unplugged all of a sudden and you're walking around this world going, How have I been on this, you know, um hamster wheel?

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

And listen, I don't regret my career. I I can now say as we head into our 10th year, that I mean, it was the 20 years previous that allowed me because I entrepreneurial was not something I would have chosen. Anne Marie, I aspired to work with Anne-Marie, and I it we kind of came together, and she's the one who taught me really to follow my intuition. And in fact, it is quite entrepreneurial. I've learned a lot from my business partner, but I was that Gen X woman who was like, I just worked and worked and worked. So that comes into that's helpful, certainly, because there's a level of experience from that end. Um, but it very much is exactly. And I I believe I kind of went through burnout, but there was a burnout aspect. I was just done. So then I was like, well, maybe I'll just retire at like 45.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

That could be fun. And like that can happen. Do you find that people know what their big, gorgeous goal is? Because I question my curious, I'm curious to hear. They hit the burnout and they know they need something else. Yeah. Understanding and knowing what it is that you want or you want to build or be a part of is I don't know if everyone is as open to that. Do they need help in finding that? Like they just know what they don't want, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah. Yeah. I think they know what they don't want. I think they do need help in figuring it out. And I think often they're trying to set a bunch of goals, yeah, which is always what tells me they haven't reached high enough yet. Okay. Usually, like what I encourage people who are like, no, but I want six things. I'm like, no, there's one thing above the six. There's an umbrella there somewhere. And these six things may become part of chasing the bigger piece, but uh, but I always think, you know, we can't really do six, you can't chase six things all at once. And so you've got to get to the heart of what the highest one is and start working there.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

So as are they are those goals as broad as I want time freedom, or are they or are they chasing a dollar, or they're chasing, I really want to make a widget? Like what how big?

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah, I think they're bigger than making a widget, usually, right? Um, but I think that it is, yeah, I want time freedom. Like, do I have the money for that? Do I know how to do that? Do I like it's there, it's always a goal where there are a lot of questions. There are there, in fact, there's probably more questions than answers when you get started. And part of the journey is starting to figure out the answers and like kind of calibrating the path and the goal as you go.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Okay. And what so and have you found that there's been a shift? So kind of when you've started this discussion to kind of where women are now, you know, maybe walk us through, because I think you know, a lot's happened through the years. I mean, COVID feels a while back, but it wasn't that far still. Um, and I just think the way the world is, and and you know, as women and you know, get being galvanized to feel very strongly even more

Big Goals In Uncertain Times

SPEAKER_02 15:57

so, or take action now, given what's going on around us. Have you seen some shifts that's happening?

SPEAKER_03 16:03

I'm curious about that. Well, one of the things, I mean, right now I would say people are feeling a lot of uncertainty, right? Yeah. But I don't know if that's any different than in 2020, really. Sure. Like, do we did we have any idea, right, what this whole decade was going to look like? Like up the upheaval of a global pandemic, political instability, wars in the world, like all the pieces. But if I kind of look back at some of the biggest things that I've decided to do or that have been big successes for me, they almost always happened in uncertainty. When I felt my most uncertain and I decided to take a step forward somewhere, it's where the best things happened. And so we've also got to find a way of moving in uncertainty because otherwise we're gonna get caught. And it's so funny because at the midpoint of this decade, I was running these workshops on Big Gorgeous Goals and how you know we'd been totally derailed in the first five years of this decade. And if we wanted to make progress by 2030, you we kind of needed to start moving because that five years felt like it passed. And you know, here we are like two years later. And and you know, do we feel like we're moving? Probably not, but it's the kind of thing that like we owe it to ourselves to set a big goal and move anyway. Yeah, because if we wait for things to be certain, we are going to wait forever. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

And you and if you don't move, you won't even get half of that started. Exactly. If you move you set the goal and you fail, yeah, okay, so we failed, but at least we were in the direction.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Yeah. Yeah. And it is those left turns where all the surprises and delights are. Absolutely. It's it is the thing that is most unexpected where you find the best outcomes and the and the things that mean the most. Yeah. Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

But we've not been raised in that way.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

No, no, but our parents were but our parents were raised by you know people who lived through the Great Depression and wars, world wars, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah, yeah, totally true. So the uncertainty, we were raised by those who feared uncertainty. So therefore, we were also raised to aim for the certain and the security.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

And chase security in the in the way it was defined for us.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah. Well, and if you look at the history of humankind, like we're probably it's it's the world has only become more uncertain as the centuries have passed, and we're not kind of built for that, for that. No. Yeah. You know, as a as a as a species.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

So if you think about it, I mean, midlife also has a lot of uncertainty in it. So sure does. I wonder if there's a correlation to that, that we're in the most uncertainty, like you know, you may have spent 20 years. I hate that word control, but we all were happy in the control we had. Yes, and suddenly you're out of control. Yeah, you have the control somewhat, some things, and then as your family ages, you lose that control, and there's uncertainty in that, which is the whole point of raising and launching. That's the whole point. But you there's uh some uncertainty, and then maybe your health is a bit weird or wonky, or even if you're healthy, it's weird perimenopause or whatever, right? Absolutely. But you're lucky enough, you're lucky to have that uncertainty and hopefully a long future in uncertainty. Yeah. So how do you become really comfortable in that and set your and then so do people feel weird about setting a goal in an uncertainty? That's yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

And I think it's where like you can become afraid to, you know, you you can even go as far as to set the goal and then let the fear take over where you just never move. And so it is about figuring out how to get yourself moving, like how to, you know, who who, if you never tell anyone your goals, you will probably find it harder to move. I'm not suggesting you take out a TV ad or anything, but um, but I agree, you know, you've kind of got to figure out who are your people that you want to tell. And and that

Accountability And The Right Support

SPEAKER_03 20:17

might not be your family, it might not be your best friends, it might be other people who are trying to do big things, right? And so it's like you have all these different pools of support, but you got to find the right one who wants you to want big things. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Um interesting concept. Pools of support.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Yeah, I agree with that. I do like that because I do think that um, you know, finding your accountability partners or a big thing is just say it out loud to whomever. Like it doesn't have to be everyone. Um, but then it's harder to harder to not action something if you've already told someone you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Um, that is a very good point.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Um, are you coaching people, Julie, in this way? Like you're one of the pools of support? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So how are people, if they have an idea, are they coming to you with an idea or they're coming to you because they need to find an idea and they're struggling to find that goal? I would say both.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Okay. Both. Although I do have a lot of people who are very goal-oriented, motivated people who want um accountability is part of it. And part of it is really just like they kind of know what they need to do, but they need that thought partner to to push it around with and and have the confidence to keep stepping forward. Love that.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

So that's where also your background as a founder would be so helpful.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Because not just as a coach, but with a coach, with the experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yeah. I've got the I've got the coaching certification and the practical experience that kind of come together in how I work with people. Um, and it does really like there are a lot of really qualified coaches out there that are doing really, really great work. But my kind of difference is that I just bring the and and so then, you know, here's how we did it, here's what here's what I learned about that. Um, here's what I saw when I worked somewhere else. Like these are the different pieces that can really come together to help help people as they're growing.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

And do you find most of the people that have come to you are women? Yes. Not all, but most. Yeah. Most. So there so is there is it and what about in your like how would you find people? How are they finding you?

SPEAKER_03 22:43

A lot by referral and word of mouth. Okay. Um, I've had some people find me on Google. Like I like a lot of different ways, but mostly through referral and word of mouth. Yeah. Um, and it is mostly women, and probably partly because you know, the book was oriented to women, the podcast is oriented to women. And and that really just has come out of the like the stats of, you know, only 2% of businesses started by women clear a million in revenue. Yes. And so I my whole philosophy has just been like, if you can see it, you can be it. And so let's share more stories, let's help more women build bigger businesses. And so because I talk about those things, I have positioned myself really towards women entrepreneurs. And it doesn't mean I can't help more people than just that. But I really am passionate about seeing women like achieve more. Absolutely. Yeah, no, agreed.

unknown 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

As we are.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

My theory that they're only 2% clear one 1 million is because I think most of them are consultant, like solo entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Is that is that a correct yeah, that's probably true. Or or they're doing it as a lifestyle business while they raise their families because they're making a choice. I think you know, a lot of it is about choice. I think though there is a section, like there are people who want more and aren't sure how to get there, right? Yeah. And then this piece of like I think I come in at this intersection of like growing an eight-figure business is as much of a leadership journey for the founder as it is like operations and strategy.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Oh, yeah, for sure it would be because also, yeah, not all founders are also meant to lead it into the next stage necessarily.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Well, and that's and that's you know, the crossroads that everybody's gonna reach at some point, right? And it's really hard for a founder to think about not being the CEO of their company. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent, especially and it and it depends on why they got into it in the first place, too. Like what was their passion? Maybe their passion isn't the grow the like the COO of the business, except and nobody's passion is having a hundred people that report to them.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

No, that's not why we start businesses.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

But that's the reality. If you if you're if you're successful, you'll get everything you don't want, is kind of like ultimately what happens. You get a lot of process, you get a lot of people, you get HR problems, you have, you know, I don't know. If are you do you turn into a micromanager or somebody who doesn't know how to really make decisions effectively or delegate really well or champion your team? And and so that's where the leadership journey comes in.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

So that's a nice conduit because that's your leadership coaching. Yeah. Coming into that. So it's not just coaching to reach for the goal, but it's yeah, that's the the other. Are you still doing traditional leadership coaching anymore?

SPEAKER_03 25:47

I'm still doing a little bit of it. Um, but I've I launched a program recently for called Pocket Coach, and it's like asynchronous voice note coaching. And so it really helps people in that moment where they're like, I'm not sure if I'm making the right decision, but I need to, I need to move. And they don't want to put it on the list for me when they see me in two weeks. Um, and so it's more meeting people where they are and okay, and supporting them through day-to-day and the ongoing decisions and the ongoing progress they make towards their goals.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Oh, that's smart.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

I think I saw that on social where you're promoting that. And so then do you so so someone just calls you, leaves their voice, and then you send back a little uh that is smart. That's very smart. Yeah, because then they get an answer. You're not giving a whole pile of time, but you're already familiar with the business, obviously. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Yeah, yeah. And it's been really I sort of I start I knew someone who was doing it. I started it as a bit of an experiment, and I really, really like it. So that's kind of where we've landed. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

And in your, you know, the types of of women, I'm just I'm gonna use women specifically, that you're um working with, are you seeing some um segmenting or buckets? Like I'm just very curious of, you know, I'm always curious as we look at the women who were before us and learning from them. And I'm so very curious. Uh, you know, I'm raising a daughter, she's a while, a while into like she's in university. But the point is, uh the younger generation, I'm just so in a lot of ways impressed by them. And I'm curious as to the women before us, are they are you seeing, you know, a difference in them coming to this realization sooner? You know, is pocket coaching kind of something that is driven by maybe, you know, if it's the a busier woman at a stage, an agent stage of her career that would work. Are there any kind of like, oh, that's that you went, ha, interesting. I would not have predicted that, but that totally makes sense for people who are listening who might go, you know, where might I fall?

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Yeah, one of the things that I found was like in my journey, when I wanted to find like a mastermind or a group of people, yeah, that that wasn't as readily obvious, yeah, but it's very obvious today. There are many people who have communities and meetups and like round tables and all kinds of support like that. I have the suspicion that people aren't using one-on-one support quite as much. Yeah, yeah. And I think you know, coaching, the proliferation of coaches has made it a little bit more difficult to filter, uh, filter who's gonna be the right fit for you, who's gonna help you get where you want to go.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah, that makes sense. That's a really good point on the on there are a lot of coaches, and it's tricky to know what people specialize in. Yeah. And what their and there's accreditation, but not maybe like for the specific piece. So as you were talking, you made me think about if you went back in time to when you go when you and the and your teammates started Mabel's, like what you a good reference that today there's so many communities, there's so many things. If you go back and think, oh, if imagine I wonder what it would have happened in today's world if that idea had come up, and would it have launched faster or slower or it would have been very different?

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Um, like I think about the problems. Like some of our biggest

Building In A Noisy New Market

SPEAKER_03 29:32

problems when we launched were, you know, like like taking credit cards on the internet was a problem. Yeah. Um, like some of the biggest problems are just no, no, now you build a Shopify site and off you go. Right? Like it's just it's you could scale so much faster now. Yes, you can, but it's also a lot noisier. So so these are the trade-offs, right? Of and now, I mean, and now Google's moving to AI first search. What does that do for SEO, for Google Ads, for you know, all the things we've been taught are the tools that we need, are it's changing rapidly, right? Again, tell us about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

This is as marketers, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

So much of that is upside down. Yep, yes, upside down to what we all built for the last 20 years, basically. 100%. And so, you know, and so I think there's opportunities that we didn't have when I started and different challenges than we had. And so it's just that, you know, times change. Some things stay the same, you know, uh, like your cost of acquisition for a customer, how much you're paying for marketing, uh, how much profit you can make, and how you can figure out how to, you know, keep cash flow and having good business models. That stuff hasn't changed. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Yeah, the foundation and the some of the basic kind of um elements haven't, but the arena in which we're playing is is is entirely devolving, right? Always evolving. So that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And product, probably product development too. So how quickly you could test something now, whether it's a digital product or it's a physical thing like a label where you could get something faster from across the world in your hands.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Oh gosh, that's so true. So, Julie, what's so if you are kind of looking forward, so we were just talking about can't believe it's July 1st, just around the corner and it's like the end of, you know, we're gonna be heading into a new year before we know it. Um, and I love how you kind of broke out, you know, if you're gonna get to 2030 is like this next decade, where you know, what do you need to do? But for yourself and and and what you're seeing, what what what is in the near future or what are you looking looking at?

Time Freedom Without Burning Out

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Any left turns coming up that you want to share? What are your big gorgeous goals?

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Your big gorgeous goals you're asking. I've been working on time freedom. Time freedom's been something like I have valued myself for a lot of my career on my output, like actual work product. Yes, and you know how many hours I sit at my desk kind of and how clean my inbox is, kind of a you know, as examples. Um he doesn't know anything about that.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Like I literally am breaking out into hives as you're talking. I'm like, isn't that the most important thing, Julie? I'm being very sarcastic.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

So I want to hear what Julie's gonna say because I know you want to do it.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

But I think I think how it went. I think it's one of the reasons that Pocket Coach came to came to life for me is the idea of I can do it from anywhere. And I was sort of curious to know if I could maintain some personal boundaries around running a program like that, where I wasn't working every evening and every weekend answering messages and that sort of thing. Um, but can I structure a schedule that allows me a lot of freedom, but also where, you know, I have some time every day that I'm remoting to that work. And and and it's been it's been quite good. I've been surprised how well I've done. And so it is, you know, as I move through to this next stage, yes, it is where I want to keep working and I want to keep doing things. I also want to have time to um give some of my time to good organizations on their boards and that sort of thing, and and do other work to use the skills. And so I need to find that balance.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

How did you do on that trip? Because you did post about that. Like you did, you weren't gonna check your email, and I think you went just before we went on our trip, Tanya. I feel like, yeah, and I was like, how is it going? Because we took as we went away for a month too, and we were or I went away for a month, Tanya for 10 days, but we said we called it vacation in order to clear the schedule, but we were still working together, right? Having a lot of fun as well. We had to clear the schedule in order to fully avoid it.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Yeah, I had to check my email because my accountant needed me to sign off on my taxes. Yeah, sure. So uh that didn't count as far as I was concerned, but I didn't work, and it was very interesting because one of my girlfriends who was on the trip, she did, and she would we would we spent quite an amount of time driving to see things, and so she'd sit up in the front seat of the van with the driver with her laptop and tether on and do the work she needed to do, and I would stay back. And when I sat up with the driver, I would just chat with them. So it was it it worked, and I was able to do it, which was really quite shocking to me because I really, really never had, and I knew with this group of friends that we would I would get the open space for like big blue sky conversations and ridiculous ideas, and I wanted to just kind of bask in that, and so it was really good, and I recognize a couple of faces on that trip, like there's entrepreneurial minds in that were they all entrepreneurs?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah, so that blue sky big conversation, you want to have time and space for that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Yeah, yeah, and just have fun and unplug and come back and feel like I was ready because I I think what happened is I've just the way the rhythm of the year has gone. I've gone from a few week chunks of being very, very busy at work to like a couple of weeks of time where I was off. And so if I'm not off, am I coming back to the four to six weeks of like head down, go hard with the energy I need or not?

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Right. No, it's such a great point.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yeah, I do that time freedom is huge, and I think that's what you I think it's massive, and you kind of referred to that already, Tanya. Like you're you have like output performance, how Julie described it. Like you've been you're you're kind of built in that same structure and loosening that, I'd say, of like over the years as we've been working together, but still not checking your inbox. Like Tanya goes on vacation and brings her laptop just in case, just in case, just in case. Yeah, and I'm starting to release that. But yes, feel more comfortable with your laptop where I feel much more comfortable to not bring it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

And that's still and it is still like I did still bring it in case. You never know. And I and and it was the like, no, I need to the next step for me, is I gotta leave it at home. Yes, like it really is, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah, I think we're very similar that way. I agree. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 50 in the 50-year-old woman who worked in a workforce of like in some space who isn't exactly the same way. I mean, that's how we grew, like I call it like my career, how I grew up. Like this is so, you know, and and what is always amazing is whatever the scenario, like so great, not surprising to hear that wow, it like it worked out, but that's all of us. We're like, wow, you can do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah, you can, and it's so amazing that we even thought didn't think it was a possibility. And the flip side is that you can bring your laptop and work from that front seat as well. You could also do the that I knew. You could completely work, but you could also work from wherever, which is yeah, that's a post-COVID benefit. That's a big, gorgeous goal.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Like and it was it was an interesting trip because we had all this time driving around the country in this van, where if people wanted to work, they had that opportunity. And if you didn't want to work, you just didn't. And so it was very interesting to see the the sort of two sides of that.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

I love that. Well, this was great. I mean, it's always I love to hear what other people are are doing and and kind of and understand their journey through this. Um, but then when you hear some similarities, you're like, okay, like we're onto something. We just need to bring more and more women, empower more and more women to have trust in a bit of this shift, right? Um, that freedom.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

I have one more question though before we roll up. Of course. Yeah. So I know you have your tethers out with lots of female founders and women who are looking to do really cool, interesting things, whether from like an investor portfolio or a coaching portfolio. So if you had like two examples, do you have two or one? Someone who's done something really interesting, really taken a left turn that has inspired you as well. Like who have you helped, watched, or been just

Third-Act Meaning And Play

SPEAKER_00 38:32

proud of them and excited for them?

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Um, I have a friend of mine, she's in the US, she's part of a speaker group that I'm a part of. I have a small group of people, and um, I was always pretty impressed with her. She was the first um American US Air Force pilot to fly the F-16 in combat. And her name's Sharon Pressler, and then she became a pilot, and she was pilot at Southwest, and she took um, you know, when the pandemic came, pilots didn't, you know, necessarily fare all that well. So she retired from that. And now she's gotten a coaching certification and she's working with you know at-risk youth. And and really total left turn. And I just think like she's just so grounded and so like accomplished and yet so approachable and and relatable. Love that. Yeah, and I really love that she's taking all the leadership skills she learned, you know, through her time in the military, her time is you know, at Southwest, and she is using those to help to help kids who really need who really need a hand. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what I think it's like the third act, I think, in many cases will be people's favorite act because perhaps they've found themselves again.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

If they if they if they hadn't been able to hold on to her. Um, because it is tricky. I think I read somewhere that midlife is you you're the 16-year-old, you except you like yourself this time. Which is an interesting thought. 16.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Yeah, the the when you were still a little bit unencumbered, yes, right? You didn't, and maybe really it's 13, because I mean our 16-year-olds are pretty encumbered in this. But us at 16, I think we were more not naive, more I don't know, genuine.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

I was drunk in a field hoping, you know, my parents thought I was sleeping over at my friend's house.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

So she was free, Julie, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:41

She felt oh yeah, yeah. I think I do think that us as kids, um, I think it's a good point. People got bullied and we were not free as whatever, but compared to our kids today, 100%. We had an anonymous existence in a lot of ways, but our kids don't have.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

I mean, you'd compare the 16-year-old to the 40-year-old, you right? Like, yeah, yeah, you know, so in this next date, you're like, okay, I can go back to like I went bike riding on Saturday, I had so much fun, I was just riding my bike, and I thought, huh, I haven't really just done that really for a while. And yeah, it's but I mean, 12-year-old me, I loved my bike.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

I know, and remember, like, we could run like the wind and all the things that you know we don't anymore. It's um, but it is interesting to think about like that kind of free feeling, right? Where because I think that we um replace that with feeling of responsibility in a lot of cases, yes, right? That's very well. And what do you like?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Like, I read a lot, I still read a lot, and that's one of the new hobbies that I have held on my whole life. Like, I really do love to read. So, okay, what other things did you did your soul love to do? Did you forget about that? Yeah, do you want to bring up and how do you bring that back? And I've that's why I think people think of retirement because they think, oh, well, because I wasn't working. Like, but uh there's nothing wrong with working if you're if you're purposefully do my work forever. That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Well, and I mean I mean, retirement was not designed for the lifespan and the lives we have now, right? I mean, I think that when they set age 65 as the retirement age, the average it started in the US that they started to cap that, and the average lifespan or life expectancy was 63 at the time they set it at 65. So, like we're talking and now the expectancies are in the 80s, like 80s, we're talking totally different, you know. So 65 is kind of arbitrary given the life, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:51

So maybe it needs a rebrand, it's not retirement, but it's repurposement or something.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's about like, you know, hopefully you can get to a place where you don't have to work, you're doing work that you enjoy. Yes, that's right. And it or that it feels meaningful, or that, you know, and so you can still um use the knowledge and wisdom and skills that you have to help move through. To contribute in ways.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

That's why I think your freedom of time, I really is is it has to be a big gorgeous goal for a lot of people because that doesn't happen unless you set it there. And I don't think, you know, if you we think of retirement, like people think, well, the freedom of time happens when I retire because I no longer need to work. It's like, no, how do you create that before this arbitrary date so that you are more energized to work when you need to, but also truly have balance. But I mean, balance is is even the wrong word because it may become that you're only working 20 or 30 percent of the time and 70, but you're not really retired. Like, what is that even? No, um, it has been Michael.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Yeah, and then what are the things you want to add? Right, like that's also what I'm saying right now is if okay, if I'm freeing up my time, yes, I'm gonna, you know, give away some of my knowledge for free and do some worthy things, but what are the other things that I want to do for myself? Right? Like, like I got an email in my inbox about signing up for a choir, you know, like and and it's not a long-term commitment, but I used to like to sing at one point in my life. And so why not go do a 10-week choir and see if I still like it? Yes. Um, you know, like I I feel like I need to get out and and try some things that will just put me back out in the world again in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Love this and have different conversations, different experiences, and those moments may launch the next idea. Exactly. Which could be a business, but it could just it could be a nonprofit. It could be that just I want to do this every Friday. Could be a community you find that's entirely different. I love this.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Yeah, well, thank you for your time, Julie. This was amazing. I need to define what my big gorgeous goal is. I know, me too. Oh, yeah, I have a sense. Oh my god. But it probably will be one of many little goals. I need the bigger bowl. I will be able to do that. Yes, that's exactly.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

I encourage you to lift it up till you get to the one umbrella that sits over it all.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

Yeah. I love that. Love that. All right, Julie. Thanks, ladies. It was so good talking to you. So good talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Just gonna.