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Eating Wild
Hosted by three hunting and fishing buddies with a lifetime of culinary experience between them, Outdoor Journal Radio's Eating Wild podcast brings folks from all walks of life to the boat, tree stand, and kitchen to tell the stories and answer the questions around the pursuit and preparation of wild fish and game.
Eating Wild
Episode 53: Frank Ungaro
Season Two of the Eating Wild podcast kicks off in spectacular fashion with our 53rd episode, welcoming none other than Frank Ungaro from the Ugly Pike podcast. Get ready to uncover Frank’s spice secrets as he reveals his love for chimichurri and smoked maple rubs, enhancing our favorite wild-caught Arctic char with key lime and lemon pepper. We'll also share our excitement about the muskie opener in the Kawartha area and the much-anticipated bass season.
Join us on a journey through our annual Rideau River muskie opener tradition, where the blend of trolling and casting techniques comes to life. Frank and our team dive deep into the science of understanding bait dynamics and water conditions, with tips on adjusting speed and depth based on weather. You’ll hear about advanced fishing tech like LiveScope and auto track, and we’ll recount thrilling tales of record-breaking muskie catches, showcasing the camaraderie and excitement that fuels our angling adventures.
As we wrap up, we look forward to future fishing trips to Nipissing and potentially Georgian Bay with Pete Boston. Discover the growth of Ugly Pike as we introduce new ventures like high-performance fishing shirts and the tantalizing “Ugly Meat” snack. We also explore the meticulous process of preparing pork belly, perfect for pairing with our Last Light Lager. This episode is packed with stories, tips, and laughter, making it a must-listen for both seasoned anglers and culinary enthusiasts alike.
Follow Eating Wild on Instagram! To reach out to the boys, drop us a line at eatingwild@odjradio.com
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Speaker 5:As the world gets louder and louder, the lessons of our natural world become harder and harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. Harder to hear, but they are still available to those who know where to listen. I'm Jerry Ouellette and I was honoured to serve as Ontario's Minister of Natural Resources. However, my journey into the woods didn't come from politics. Rather, it came from my time in the bush and a mushroom. In 2015, I was introduced to the birch-hungry fungus known as chaga, a tree conch with centuries of medicinal use by Indigenous peoples all over the globe.
Speaker 5:After nearly a decade of harvest, use, testimonials and research, my skepticism has faded to obsession and I now spend my life dedicated to improving the lives of others through natural means. But that's not what the show is about. My pursuit of the strange mushroom and my passion for the outdoors has brought me to the places and around the people that are shaped by our natural world. On Outdoor Journal Radio's Under the Canopy podcast, I'm going to take you along with me to see the places, meet the people that will help you find your outdoor passion and help you live a life close to nature and under the canopy. Find Under the Canopy now on Spotify, apple Podcasts or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to another episode of the Eating Wild podcast. I am your host, antonio Smash Malecka. We got the four skins in studio. We got Top Dog Pereira, we got Hookset Martin. Showtime Johnson Boys. We are pleased to announce our guest for today. By the way, boys, this is season two, episode one.
Speaker 3:Season two episode 53, man, we made it for a year. And to kick off the season two, episode 53 man, we made it for a year. And uh, to, how do you believe that kick off the season two of the eating wild podcast? We're? We're pleased to be joined by um you. I'm sure everyone knows this guy doesn't need too much of an introduction, but he is the co-host of the ugly pike podcast here on the outdoor journal Journal Radio Podcast Network and team Mr Frank Negreanu. Thanks for joining us today, brother Cool.
Speaker 6:Yes, Great to be here. It's great to be here To pronounce my name correctly it's N'Garo, in case anybody cares.
Speaker 7:I thought I heard N'Garo. I said N'Garo, it's a tough one, it's all right, you just screwed up episode one no I didn't Scoot up episode one, no I didn't.
Speaker 6:I said in Grail.
Speaker 4:That's what I said.
Speaker 3:Let's take it to a good place.
Speaker 6:This is why I was a little late. I was preparing my dinner. This is my favorite meal. It's wild-caught Arctic char with the key lime and lemon pepper the best fish rub. I told Antonio when I tried it the first time I'm never eating fish without this spice, ever again. Oh wow.
Speaker 2:It's perfect, that was a fun one to make that looks amazing man.
Speaker 3:You got to give Hooks the props on that one friend.
Speaker 4:Oh stop it.
Speaker 3:No, but listen man. We tested out the key lime and lemon pepper and Dan wasn't happy with it. No it was just lime and pepper. It was just lime. Yeah, he went, he put his doctor head on on that one and I'm glad you love it, man. In fact it's been between that and lose a jerk, I think has been. We got the most response.
Speaker 4:I like the chimichurri the best.
Speaker 3:I love the chimichurri too. Frank, you've had all four of them.
Speaker 6:I've had all four of them. I wish I could use the lose a jerk more, because I love saying it so much, even around my house.
Speaker 2:People are like what are you talking about.
Speaker 6:But I'm not a big, I'm used to it, frank. I'm not a big jerk guy. Although it's very good, it's very mild for a jerk, it's not overpowering, so I do like it. But I like the piri piri. I like the smoked maple. If you get the right protein with that smoked maple, it's dynamite, I agree, but the key lime and lemon pepper the best, the best In my opinion. In my opinion, it's a good opinion man.
Speaker 3:I appreciate it, it's an honest opinion. Well, listen, man, we're so pleased that you took the time to join us today. We got a lot to touch on. Muskie opener passed. It's not open yet in the Kawartha area, but it's approaching us. It is open in the Kawartha.
Speaker 4:Is it open? Oh, that's right.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry I screwed up there, Bass is open next week right Fake news yes, Bass is open in two days. Bass is open in a couple days. So, Frank, you obviously with the Ugly Pike podcast. We've been listening to your episodes and some really, really great guests on talking musky like you guys do, and we're here to pick your brain and the listeners want to hear. Obviously, you went out for musky opener this year. First of all, where did you go and how was it so?
Speaker 6:we do our openers on the Rideau River every year because it is in that zone that opens extra early. So, as we sit here, in two days, the traditional or the more mainstream opener is about to take place. But, like we were saying earlier, cuaritha's, parts of Lake Erie and the Rideau River and I'm sure there's a bunch that I just don't know of but we go to the Rideau River and it's not, you know, it's not a huge fish fishery, but it's a nice size body of water where you can just get the gremlins out of your equipment, get out on the water and just have a good time with your buddies. So that's kind of been our tradition and yeah. So I got back a few days ago and we had a wonderful time, as usual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was great. How did?
Speaker 7:you, how many did you boat? Oh, right on the spot.
Speaker 6:Hey, okay, we told her we voted a few. You know it was good yeah good time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we voted quite a few it's a little hesitation is right is this a trolling trip or a casting trip.
Speaker 6:Nothing huge. It was well, we do both. Right, we do both. And so I was listening to your episode with Cody who's? You know I love Cody. I met him a few times after his fight. I hope and expect that he's going to be. Him and I will be training together at my gym on Fridays. On the odd Friday we have a really good open mat at my gym and we get a lot. We get guys from his gym that show up for that already. So I'm sure after his fight we're going to get to roll around and I'm super excited and we'll probably hit the water this year as well.
Speaker 6:We've been texting back and forth, by the way. I love the episode with him. Um and uh, it was really great. I texted him after and said, yeah, man, you did a great job and good luck with your fight and all that stuff. I wish you could go. But, um, it's you gotta have to tear me away from my friday open mat, is it's? It's tough to do. I just love those sessions, it's all. It's all our killers, it's. You know. You just leave it all on the mat on Fridays and so, um, but uh, you guys were talking about trolling versus casting in that episode and I want to talk quickly about that because, like I don't I'm not trying to persuade you guys, but you guys sound an awful lot like I did maybe five years ago before I met some of the best trollers in the world for musky um, and it's not like.
Speaker 6:It's not like it's not a physical thing. We don't troll because we're tired or because we're lazy or necessarily because we want to cover water. There is trolling is like is about formula and mathematics and analysis. And when you really understand and I didn't, like I would troll here and there you know always, but I never really understood the strategy behind how you dissect the water column with different types of baits, how you look at the temperature of the water, how you look at the bait fish and you adjust your lines, how you understand the dive curves of your baits. It is such a science Like you get. It's a whole rabbit hole.
Speaker 6:So to me it's just a fascinating thing, right, fishing is about patterns, jiu-jitsu is about patterns and this style of fishing is very much about patterns. Now I know, you know like I fished out in Nipissing last year, guys, and it was one of those trips where the fish were hitting me mid-retrieve, smashing my lure mid-retrieve, and you're setting the hook and yeah, you know what? There's nothing like that. There really is nothing like that. But I've come to appreciate just as much. When you're, you know, a day or a day and a half with nothing and you're trolling, and you know you're talking to your buddies, you're working the lines, you know you're diligently working the lines, so we're not just sitting there doing nothing. And then when you hear that?
Speaker 4:What do you mean? Working the lines, Frank?
Speaker 6:Well, you got to check the lines often, right, you got to make sure there's no fouls. You've got to change lures if it's not working, if, if you're going to a different depth, you're going to be changing lures. There's a big, you know, difference between trolling blades and trolling crankbaits. So you're usually, we're usually doing one or the other and so we're working in the boat. But when you, when you have silence for you know the way, the way musky fishing is you, you have silence, no fish, for long periods of time. And when you have that silence and all of a sudden you hear the zzzz, I love it, it is addictive, I'm telling you, man, it's great. So I don't want you guys to think that you know again, I'm not trying to talk anyone into it, but it is very scientific. And when you have to get with an expert troller to really appreciate what it's all about, because I know I had to learn that way.
Speaker 7:Yeah, so I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad you mentioned that, frank, because a couple months ago we went out with Simon Barth for a walleye trolling trip. And you know us, we don't get too excited for trolling trip. And you know us, we don't get too excited for trolling. And you ask any of us most of the reason why we don't get too excited? Because I think we all have ADD, we all are impatient, we love throwing the baits, we love the action, we love moving around, chasing structure, chasing, structure, chasing fish. And with trolling it's not like that. But I went with the mindset fishing with Simon for walleye, of like, okay, I'm just going to sit, I'm just going to learn and I'm going to try to pick things up and open my game up, because you know, I'm going to take what I can learn from him and bring it to Georgian Bay. See what happens, right, and we were there and Simon could not stop moving. Yeah, it's so true this guy was trolling.
Speaker 7:This guy was trolling for us and he could not sit down. Mind you, of course he's the guide and he's getting the baits ready and all this stuff you're talking about. Of watching the lines cleaning the lines. You know different depths changing about. Of watching the lines cleaning the lines you know different depths, different colors.
Speaker 7:He's changing baits like crazy. He's chasing sorry, he's chasing temperatures, he's chasing wind, he's chasing watercolor Structure, whatever. Yeah, whether he's looking at his graph or seeing how his bait is moving. It was nonstop. And I appreciated it because I've never I mean, we've trolled with gags up at Nipissing, and you learn a lot there, of course, but I felt like this was really technical fishing with Simon for these walleye and I feel like, yes, now I have a better appreciation for trolling and I know exactly what you're talking about. Well, you know what.
Speaker 6:Even driving the boat is super fun because, first of all, in terms of equipment, the auto chart feature is an absolute must. Because the auto chart I don't know if you guys know what that is, but for the listeners it's when you can have a GPS map and you know and you can see roughly what, that you know what your card tells you that those depths are. But you will live map and color code to certain depths as you go over the spots with the auto chart and so eventually you get a great sense of the actual contours under the water and you can really, especially with some side imaging, you can really ride up right next to those weed lines and get your bait right near the weed lines and it's a fun game to be driving like that and when you're making your turns give it some extra speed and whip, whip those baits and give them some extra speed and action. And a lot of times when you're coming to those turns you hear those reels just scream and it's just when you get a big musky and it just goes.
Speaker 4:I am almost caught in the middle here, because nothing, nothing beats a strike mid, mid cast, like you were saying before, of a musky and it feels like it's going to tear your shoulders apart. But then, on the other hand, sitting in a boat with your buddies, and you hear that line screaming, the zing, zing, zing on the line. It's again another feeling you get, so it is torn. Am I going to prefer one over the other? Yeah, I love casting. That's all there is to it, right? I just love that extra, pull that extra, pull that extra. Pull my shoulders off my. I remember that time we were in Nipissing and I broke two ribs and I was casting Shadzilla's and Bucktails and I was dying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you broke two ribs. Why don't we talk about that then? How'd you break your ribs, man?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was all on fishing trips. Oh my God, but dude, it hurt, but still, I was waiting for that strike, that mid-cast strike that Frank was talking about. That just pulls your shoulders and I don't know, to me it's still number one.
Speaker 6:One of the most prolific troll uh casters, you know, is John Anderson from the Ottawa river muskie factory. He's one of the, you know, he's one of the big dogs and he said on our show a couple of weeks ago you know, in the end we all become trollers.
Speaker 4:I heard that yeah.
Speaker 6:It was not great yeah, believe it came from him, but to hear that uh was really cool, because and it's like I cast a lot but I troll a lot and uh, I love it all and you guys are gonna too, like, mark my words, you guys are gonna too one thing I was really shocked at when lou was talking about how we were on lake area and trolling for walleye, I had no idea how much trolling is a team effort.
Speaker 2:You know, you got the guy doing the watching the one side and watching the planers or the the one guy's reeling up the other line. So when there's a fish on, the other guy doing boat control, the other guy getting a net, and that we were sleeping on that because we had no idea. We thought it was this, the driver of the boat that did all the work and it's yeah, I, yeah, I tip my hat to you, man.
Speaker 6:So I'm going to show you guys a picture and I'm going to tell you guys a funny story, Because this was probably the nicest muskie. This was the biggest muskie I've ever seen. Jesus.
Speaker 4:What a slob.
Speaker 6:So that's my buddy Attila and that's Alex Boutin from Barbarian Braid. Yeah, and that was us on the St Lawrence last winter. And my buddy Attila is a good angler, but he's he's a very casual musky angler. You might get out once or twice a year. And, uh, what we do when we troll is when whenever you bring line in, you shut the clicker off so you don't give anybody a heart attack. Right, it's etiquette. And so we were at the end of our trip. We did pretty good. We got some nice fish, some big fish.
Speaker 6:This was an exception, but we hadn't had that whale and it was the last hour of the trip and I said let's just troll back. So we're trolling back over these areas that we don't usually fish because we don't, we've never identified them as good fish areas. So we're trolling back home, low expectations, and Alex says you know we're going over like 12 feet of water, bring the baits up, keep them in the water, but bring them up, you know almost to the leaders. So we bring, we take the clicker off, we bring them up, I bring mine up, I put the clicker back on, he goes to sit down. Attila brings his up, goes and sits down. Five minutes later we're just sitting there and I'm like, what's that noise? And Alex is like I hear it too. It's like a whistling noise. And we look and Attila's line he forgot to put his clicker back on His line is peeling out the back and Alex yells at the top of his line.
Speaker 6:that's a fish and it was screaming and we pulled that in and I'll show you guys the clip, maybe later because there's so much profanity in it. But when we got in the net and we saw how big that fish was, he lost his mind and my buddy Attila, literally, was speechless. And it turned out to be, you know, a fish of a lifetime for him.
Speaker 4:How big was that, Frank? It looks like it.
Speaker 6:It was 53 by 26.
Speaker 4:That's insane.
Speaker 2:To our listeners. The picture he showed us has three large gentlemen. He looked like he was seven feet tall, yeah, and this fish is crossed. All of them, yeah the lochmas monster. So yeah, it's it, that's phenomenal was.
Speaker 7:Was that a night fish, right? Yeah, that's a night fish.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure it was uh smokes man that is, it was a.
Speaker 4:It just looks so sloppy. Look how big it is. It's insane. So just just to put this in perspective.
Speaker 3:I have a. I have a fish, the 54 that I got with Dan and I got it. I got it done from the advanced taxidermy. It's at my cottage. It's on the wall. You said by 26. My 54 was by 22. Insane that is. I look at that fish every time I go to the cottage.
Speaker 7:That fish does look. That fish does look bigger.
Speaker 3:By 26,. That's three inches more of girth. You know, like Hogan's biceps.
Speaker 4:The 24 inch biceps.
Speaker 6:I think it actually is. That's Frank's biceps Tone. What time of year did you get your big fish?
Speaker 3:So me it was December right on closing day, December 14 or 15.
Speaker 4:14 or 15.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, okay, and we were casting and Frank, it was just, it was one of our days.
Speaker 7:It was me and Dan's best fishing day of our lives, 15 musky or something, 15 skis the day after seeing I got 11. Yeah, you guys got 11.
Speaker 3:And I got it and Dan was on the phone. I'm like get off the phone. You got to net this fish. It's the biggest fish I've ever seen in my life. I did it with one hand while I was still on the phone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he netted the fish Are you serious, ridiculous?
Speaker 3:Yes, idiot man, what an idiot. Listen, man, Dan, when fish, when Dan musky fish, this guy's nerves they're not shot like ours are. Our nerves are shot all the time. We you're allowed two rods on on a LSC and you know we put the clicker on. That's our. You know, we talk about it all the time there's.
Speaker 7:You know, and and you'll hear the clicker going off and we're like set the hook. Dan sparks a cigarette. I got it.
Speaker 3:He's like we're losing our mind. I love it, you know he's just getting pissed.
Speaker 2:Listen, man. And another thing our kind host and Dan does all the time on fishing trips, always on the phone, always. That's when.
Speaker 4:I get it no matter what, he's busy man, he's a busy guy, he loves working, he's ordering meat while he's catching fish.
Speaker 3:That's what he does.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that drives me nuts.
Speaker 6:Well, you know, we're all busy guys and you got to check in. You got to check in. If you're putting a long day, I get that, but I really try to minimize my time on the phone. It's. You know it's tough. We're all business owners, right, so I mean sometimes you got to. Yeah, I remember the one time I was on the water I got served legal papers that I was getting sued right before I caught the second biggest fish I ever caught.
Speaker 4:So it was like worst day of my life best day of my life, it was awesome.
Speaker 2:Oh, boy, that's insane.
Speaker 4:That's like my story.
Speaker 3:Frank, I got to ask you this man Does early season muskie. You went out for opener. Obviously it's a place you guys are familiar with.
Speaker 6:That's the fish I caught an hour later.
Speaker 3:Look at that Holy Jesus.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I caught that one, I would take the lawsuit.
Speaker 2:You could say I'll take the lawsuit for that fish.
Speaker 6:I won the lawsuit, so it's all good. Sorry, tony, go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, I was just asking you like lure selection man Like does that? Obviously do the conditions have a lot to do with your selection of lures.
Speaker 6:Or is there a certain type of lures you like to use early season when you're chasing the skis? Yeah, the conditions not really Like. For me, personally, it's like everybody like there's all these formulas, right, everybody says smaller baits, early season, crank baits, late season. That's not really the approach that I take. Like the approach is like. For me it's like I'm either using baits or blades or cranks, right, and so it's all a matter of like where in the water column I want to be and the speed that I'm trolling. So you know what like if.
Speaker 6:But and to me it's also like this is how we probe the water. So if we're on a body of water that we have an established pattern, we show up and we know what to do. But if we're on a body of water and we don't know what we're doing, we'll put blades on, we'll zip around, we'll buzz those weed lines, we'll buzz those rock lines, we'll see if that's what the fish are looking for high speed, shallow baits. And if we spend an hour or so doing that then and we get nothing, then we start changing our baits and going deeper and we progress along that logic and, uh, you know it's funny because, uh, we did really we caught almost all our fish casting and so it was tough, you know, and we got a lot trolling blades, but, like you guys know the way confidence works, right, like I got a bait from Hans Hans the Carver Hans Mann, right, you guys know him, yeah, I hear about him all the time, yeah, yeah, so he's got a bait called a Carver and I went over to his booth last year not the last Musky Odyssey but the one before and I went up to his booth and I said, hans, I want the bait that you caught the fish on.
Speaker 6:I didn't even have to say what fish. Everybody knows. You guys see, the fish from Erie that he got two years ago.
Speaker 2:Yes. I got to talk to you about Erie a little bit later. But yeah, go ahead. Lou, have you seen this fish?
Speaker 4:If that's not a record for Erie, I don't know what is Insane.
Speaker 6:I was told that it's the biggest fish ever caught out of Lake Erie Biggest muskie. Oh my god, yeah, that fish looks like it's.
Speaker 4:I was going to say is that not a sturgeon?
Speaker 6:no, and Hans is, you know, 6'4 high, 300 pound. He's a giant guy, right oh my goodness.
Speaker 6:So I walk up to him I say, hans, I want the bait. I caught that fish. He gives it to me. And I showed up with my boys and I said I want to run this this year, so on this trip. So I ran it and right away we got a fish on it. And then we, the boys, got some fish, whatever. And I still hadn't got my nice, nice fish. And the last night I'm like we're going back out after dinner Like I'm fishing till midnight. I don't care, and and and you know we had been trolling some blades earlier in the evening. Nothing was hitting.
Speaker 6:Put the carver back on, although all day I'm like I want to, I want that carver back on, but the boat has to be on the same page. Now you run baits, you pick baits to run together. It's, it's a, it's an approach. You don't want one guy running something in the surface and one guy going 20 feet down, because you've got to be in the right depth, right To be able to target the fish. And it's just like confidence. You know, I'm like I got to put that carver back on and I put it back on and at 11 pm at the last night the rod screamed and it was the nicest fish, my nicest fish of the trip, second nicest fish of the trip. Uh, and so that's the approach, right it's, it's, you know, it's shallow baits and deep baits, and when something's not working, for the same period of time, you, you progressively mix up your approach and you find that formula and when you find it it awesome, the rods go off like crazy.
Speaker 2:So let's say 11 pm. That's crazy 11 pm. That's one thing we haven't never done, boys is nighttime fishing. That's not crazy.
Speaker 7:See, that's crazy to us because we're not into the musky game like Frank and his universe of people.
Speaker 4:Right, that's two and a half hours after my bedtime.
Speaker 3:That's rib-breaking time, that's impressive Holy half hours after my bedtime.
Speaker 6:That's rib-breaking time. That's impressive. Yeah, look at that fish.
Speaker 2:Everything he's showing us, all these big, big muskie. It's dark in the background. It is dark.
Speaker 6:So don't sleep on nighttime fishing for muskie. I'm going to tell you something right now that was the only nighttime fish that we got that trip.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 6:Only because I refused to leave the water right.
Speaker 4:So let's say, frank, you're fishing 30 feet of water. You want to get your lure at, let's say, 15 feet. Is that a matter of waiting the lure, or is that just letting out more line? How do you get it to that distance?
Speaker 7:There's so much to that question.
Speaker 4:You know, what.
Speaker 5:There is a lot to that question.
Speaker 6:Oh, thanks, Luis Frank.
Speaker 5:No no no.
Speaker 6:He's right, because if I'm in 30 feet of water, I might need to get down 25, 26 feet.
Speaker 5:That's right. I typically don't fish that deep.
Speaker 6:But to your question, yeah, line and speed has a lot to do with it. But I'm telling you guys right now, if you don't know the dive curve for the baits you're using, you're never going to be successful. So Hans is my buddy. I called him up. Tell me the dive curve. He gives me the data. You know we use this bait, we use that bait. We know what the dive curves are.
Speaker 3:We know what the depths are. He has that piece of paper with him all the time.
Speaker 4:Exactly what speed is what depth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what depth yeah yeah is science, this is science, oh yeah, luiz has been out with Tony out on Georgian Bay.
Speaker 3:How many have you caught, luiz? But hold on. This is a perfect question because it's Luiz is putting up a zero sign by the way, no listen, it's a question for Luiz, because Luiz is chasing those huge guys on G Bay and his buddy, tony, makes lures. He's got amazing lures that he's made and Lou, you know Tony, I fished with you guys once. I don't think I seen him doing exactly what Frank just said when it comes to getting those baits at those certain depths, and maybe it's well, can you answer that?
Speaker 7:We went out with him just for fun right when he was showing us his baits.
Speaker 6:Yeah, you got to. Went out with him just for fun. Right when he was showing us his face.
Speaker 7:Yeah, you got to go out with him. When he gets serious it's a total different game. Like I'm not, look, we don't go enough. I've been out with him, I think three times last year for muskie fishing and all three times it was either a three or four hour morning fish and that's it because our families are there, like we don't get enough time to go out there. And he's telling me all the time he's like man we gotta commit to like a couple days, like just doing our thing, and and and buddy, he's, he's got data on all his baits that he's making and and and he knows all these baits, he knows all these guys, he knows all those guys at the show as well, and and and you know those guys are getting his riptide custom rod holders for a reason.
Speaker 7:Right, he's in that industry and and he knows what he's doing. So I mean he caught that 57 a couple of years ago. You know it's. It's not a fluke, right, these guys know what they're doing, but it is a science and you got to put in your time. And Georgian Bay is no joke. Like you got to commit to that body of water and sometimes it's only the right moment, the right bait and you got one chance. Other than that, it's not an easy body of water to catch big fish.
Speaker 2:I got a question for both you, lou and Frank. I always hear Georgian Bay.
Speaker 7:Look at that, guys. It's not numbered.
Speaker 6:One second, there we go. That is the top side of my buddy's Plano tray. Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 5:So we write the dive for it on that.
Speaker 7:Yeah, wow, hey, tone, what does that?
Speaker 3:mean? It just means that you want to fry that fish at 350 degrees. You want to get those pin bones out. You want to fry it nice and you won't taste any bones. That's what that means. Thanks for asking, Lou. Use a good beer batter.
Speaker 7:Hey, Frank, you can show us those numbers all day. It means shit to us.
Speaker 4:No, but that's what we got to learn and we don't know these things, and that's why people like bags helps us right.
Speaker 5:It's why you don't like trolling, it's why, you don't like trolling.
Speaker 6:You have to take a scientific, diligent approach and you run your favorite baits and after one season you got it up here.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't think I could ever be as good as a fisherman as you guys, because you know Dan just threw the chirp. You guys, because you know Dan just threw the chirp. You know or no, it was Lou who threw the chirp. I am not a technical fisherman, nor do I care. You got the worst ADD of the group, I know. But listen, man, I can't. You just said to me what are those numbers mean? I don't even. I listen.
Speaker 3:I would Speed and depth, I know. But I expect you guys we're fishing together I expect you guys to get those baits out at those depths and I'm just there for the ride. You know what I mean?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I just okay, but Frank's right though. I do it once I'll remember forever.
Speaker 7:For our listeners. Frank, can you give us a brief breakdown of what those numbers mean?
Speaker 6:It's line out in depth, okay.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and so as far back as your line goes the speed.
Speaker 6:We kind of we use those numbers as a guideline and typically at at, you know, warm weather season, cold weather season, we know how to make adjustments because we're going, you know, a couple miles an hour slower in the cold water. So that's something that we do on the fly and we don't do it this way. But if you have a live scope and you turn it backwards, you can see those baits, you can see them running. It's pretty cool. We've done it before, you know. You see the fish come right behind the bait and it's really neat. You see it chasing your bait. Yeah, but the guy I fish with, Alex from Barbarian Braid, he sold his livecope, so we didn't have it this year. But we don't even care, we don't need it. I don't even want it.
Speaker 7:He sold his LiveScope. Yeah, yeah, wow, he doesn't want it anymore.
Speaker 6:Nope I don't blame him. We got the auto track and we got the side imaging. We're good right now.
Speaker 3:Ced. You had a question.
Speaker 2:I good right now. So, seed, you had a question. I believe it was a couple questions for frank. Yeah, the first one I have for frank and lou is georgian bay. I hear it's not a numbers lake. The next big fish, like the big one, is gonna be like georgian bay. That's what everyone's saying. That's what I'm hearing. I heard that is there any truth in that, yeah, numbers but yeah.
Speaker 6:So a couple years ago, a few years ago muskies, canada had, at the odyssey, had a power panel and it was, uh, lazarus anderson, jim serik, uh, bill barber I think I got his name right, and rob cad Caddo, who unfortunately passed away but was an amazing fisherman, great guy too. And they asked everyone on that panel where the next world record was coming out of. And everybody but one person said Georgian Bay, right. And I don't remember who the dissenter was. I want to say it was Anderson who said Ottawa, which is predictable because he is Ottawa. But everyone said the Bay. Georgia Bay is a freaking ocean, right. So yeah, with an amazing variety of bait. So I mean, it just stands to reason that you know the next big fish is going to, the next world record is going to come out of there. The first world record came out of there, or the first Canadian record did, anyways.
Speaker 2:So your buddy, uh, dotson Blades, he, he fishes a lot there as well, Right Like he's. I've seen his baits do really good on Georgian Bay. Just get mangled and everyone chirps them. I've heard past podcasts of yours and everyone like the bait didn't hold up on this 52. What's wrong with this bait? Like, come on, just because it did, it's a 52-inch muskie who cares if it didn't hold up? It did its purpose, man, and it boggles my mind.
Speaker 6:This is what people don't understand. Baits are supposed to get destroyed. You are supposed to get your bait destroyed. So last year case in point, it means they worked, yeah, yeah. So last year I was. So I know Johnny because, like just by fortune, he moved to Niagara Falls and set up a shop, yeah, 10 minutes from my front door. So I get introduced to him, yada, yada. You know we've become friends over the years and I go there.
Speaker 6:Last year before I went on my nipissing trip that I was telling you about, and I said what do you think I should throw? And he starts literally in front of me, starts making a bait, Ba-bop, puts it together Cisco skirt you know, Cisco is such a great color for nipissing Puts the blades on boom, spins it. The blades start spinning and he looks at me and he goes this is going to get hit by one fish and destroyed. But this is going to get hit by one fish and destroyed, but it's going to be a nice fish, First day destroyed by a gorgeous fish. So I love that.
Speaker 6:Yeah, man, and not only that, but dude, he made me a prototype lure three or four years ago to take to Lac Seul and I had something like 13 follows in one evening with that lure and a couple of bites, and it got so mangled. I remember being on the I was, I was texting him like what do I do? He's like, bend it back. And you start bending it and eventually it just got so mangled that it just was not working, like it was still bringing in fish. But you know, but right near the boats one of the blades would stop spinning and the fish would fuck off. So, um, um, I you know I had to eventually put that one in into the retirement books. But, um, baits are supposed to get destroyed.
Speaker 5:Look look at Shadzilla's.
Speaker 6:Yeah, oh, mangled, yeah, mangled, you can have one fish, could destroy a Shadzilla Exactly, but that's why it got mangled.
Speaker 4:If it didn't work, it'd be brand new, pristine in the package.
Speaker 6:This is my thumper for this year.
Speaker 5:I can't wait to toss this? That's a rover, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, look at that tail, are you kidding me?
Speaker 6:Oh my God. And who cares if that gets mangled? Well, I kind of do, because I didn't take it to the Rideau. I wasn't going to be on Nipissing mid-July. Chris is going to be in town. We're going to be July 16th yeah, 16th to the 20th. We'll be up at Nipissing, so those dates.
Speaker 4:Well, we are now. Yeah we'll be following you.
Speaker 2:You will see two boats following you with really bad hip hop music in the background.
Speaker 7:Well, we were supposed to make it happen last year, Frank, but you know?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, you had that tourney in the French there.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I'll be up, guys. I'm going to be up there a lot this year and even if I'm not, if there's room for me, just let me know and I can run up there for a more time this summer with Dave Gray If he follows through. He said he was going to invite me up. I don't know if that's even set in stone, but if he invites me to the Tilted Took I love Terry the owner there I'm going to be there. And then, of course, I will not miss Unleash the Beast, the greatest freaking time. I love that. I love that tournament because I love the Chaudière Lodge. It's special to me and I love the people that are in that tournament. It's just like if I could make a list of you know 50 anglers to invite to an outing, I would put every single person on that list. So it's a great time.
Speaker 1:So I'll be up there a lot guys. If you have room for me, just reach out. You might save 30 seconds by skipping the side, but we can save you hours of meal prep with our Art.
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Speaker 4:So going back to like early season musky? Are we using double tens, frank? Are we using smaller lures? What are we doing here? Are we using double eights? I know a lot of people are going with sixes these days too.
Speaker 6:Dude, we were running double tens, we were running thirteens, we were running eights, we ran everything. 13s got hit twice oh tens got hit. Uh, eights didn't get hit, ironically enough, I don't look I a lot of really good anglers. They have their successful formulas like I, that that that guy we just interviewed, john jarvis yeah, throws freaking mefs, musky killers or whatever he's throwing. You know formulas Like I, that that that guy we just interviewed, john Jarvis throws fricking Meps, musky killers or whatever he's throwing you know tiny little single blades, Right.
Speaker 6:So yeah, he has success with it. I mean, you can't. I really just think that a lot of times, as musky anglers, we overthink things and I, I really do think it's like get the bait in front of the fish in front of it when it wants to eat and you're going to get a pull.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the first muskie I ever caught was actually with Luis. I was using a Van Damme Bleeding Series spinnerbait catching bass and I caught a 40,. What was Luis? 44-inch muskie, the very first muskie I ever caught. Wow, nice, yeah, was that the Moira or Stokoe? It was in the Moira River. Yeah, very first musk I ever caught, 44-inch, targeting bass and actually pike. That day we were doing bass and pike, right, yeah, cool, so you never know. You're right, put it in front of his face and see what happens.
Speaker 6:I think it's just honestly, it's confidence, and it seems like such a cliche when musky English say your confidence bait, but it's not because you guys all know the feeling when someone says, hey, put this bait on, You're like man, you do it anyways. You're kind of fishing going. I can't wait to get this off my line.
Speaker 4:I don't like it.
Speaker 6:I don't think you're giving it your all as an operator of that bait. You know, like I really do think confidence matters. Like the story about the carver bait, like I just I couldn't wait to get that on the line. I had a feeling I'm just like I want that bait on, I want it on. And then when I went on the water late at night, I'm like I'm putting a bait, I'm putting a carver, I don't care, and it freaking ripped, it ripped yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh man, man, it was freaking awesome. It is funny how confidence has so much to do with it To our listeners. The Ugly Pike I'm a big fan. I go right back to the early days when you were a caster and all that stuff as well. But you always get these lure makers that are so hard to get. You get them on your podcast. These guys are like you know, they're kind of underground. You know, you hear about them, you hear about their baits. You can't buy them online a lot of times and they're that go-to bait. I don't know how you get these relationships with these guys but all of a sudden, like dad's and that guy's elusive, right, but he's never been on the show. Oh, that's true, you talk about him a lot but you're right, like's, just he's never been on your show really no, no, no.
Speaker 6:Fun fact though, if you listen to the intro the Ugly Pike podcast.
Speaker 3:That's Johnny, there we go. That's him, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6:Oh, there's a fun fact. Yeah, nobody knows that I've never we've.
Speaker 6:That's great. You know what it's funny? You say that Siege, because we're working on like maybe the most elusive bait maker that no one ever gets to see or meet or hear from, and we're really close to booking him. I'm not going to say online Maybe after I'll let you guys in on it and I'm not sure if it's going to happen, but I've enlisted the help of some guys to get in touch with this gentleman and and we're gonna see if we get him on the show and if we can.
Speaker 2:it's gonna be real interesting yeah that's amazing, man. That's because I'm a tackle junkie and I I started throwing red october it's after you had the guy on about the red like tubes. You know, as I talked to you about before, I'm like a bass fisherman, multi-species. But I always thought, hey, man, like basses, chomp these tube jigs bouncing off, if there was only a musky version of this tube jig. And then, bam, I listened to your podcast right October. I'm like Niagara River, I just bounce those things.
Speaker 6:Yeah, we had. We had him on. Like we went over, we went over the river to see Mark in his shop and right, we didn't even know each other and that was. That was the beginning of a really good friendship. Like. I was just at Hans' house with Mark and Josh Ketri the three founders. They invited me to their Memorial Day barbecue all their friends and family and I went to Chicago and sat in their booth. They gave me space in my booth. I ended up working their booth because, like, yeah, I had my Ugly Pike stuff set up and we met fans from the States, but their booth was so fricking busy and people needed help and I know everything about those baits I'm like I probably made the guy two grand that day.
Speaker 5:I'm like listen, I don't work here, but these are the best baits ever.
Speaker 6:You know and and you know what it's easy to sell things that you believe in. I believe in those baits and and I've had, I've had a lot of success with them. But yeah, they're good friends and yeah, he's been on the show and Hans and Josh, and yeah, we believe in those baits and they're wonderful. But I'm going to tell you guys something right now. I casted a bait that I think might be hitting the market this year Maybe, maybe not that a friend of mine is going to maybe start selling and it's a little crankbait.
Speaker 6:It's about that big, it's maybe five inches. I'm not going to say what it is or I don't even know if anybody knows what it is. I'd never heard of it and it was like the coolest bait I've ever had. It's you can, you can bring it in and it it kind of walks the dog. It's like a crankbait, but it's not. It's like a glide bait, but it's not. It's like a glide bait, but it's not. It's like a twitch bait, but it's not. It casts really well and it comes in super easy and you can just you can put the life into it that you want and you just can't go wrong with this bait.
Speaker 6:You're talking my language it's an easy pull and it got freaking destroyed, it got mangled, this trip man, and I think, uh, I think some friends of mine are going to bring this to market, so, um, if I can get my hands on one before that, I'll grab one for you guys, and if not, I'll make sure you guys get first crack at them.
Speaker 7:We got to see that in action. This is going to be my new favorite hard bait.
Speaker 6:It's so much fun to throw this bait. Everybody needs that search bait, that erratic bait. When you're casting, someone's got to be throwing that bait. That's going to make the fish crazy, right, and someone's going to have that blade on and maybe you got two baits but that third guy's either going to have rubber or a glide bait, you know, or something like that. This thing fits the bill and you're never going to get tired throwing it and it's freaking amazing. So I'll keep you guys posted on that. It's awesome. Yeah, really love it frank, I wanted to.
Speaker 7:I wanted to ask you about, uh, shallow water musky fishing, um this, do you do it much this time of year? Uh, what's going on? Because as far as I know from you, I feel like you don't do much shallow water fishing.
Speaker 6:That's not exactly true. The most shallow I've ever caught a fish was in two feet of water with the weeds folded over. I've told this story I don't know on the show. I've told it, but this was opener on the Rideau. It was four or five years ago and we were in the muck. It was like, oh my God, like, how did we get this shallow? Like we were in the muck. It was like, oh my God, like, how did we get this shallow? Like we were trolling, let's turn this boat around or we're going to get trapped here. And as soon as we stood up, the freaking line started peeling off. We caught a muskie in two feet of water.
Speaker 6:Yeah, so it's again like getting back to what I said before. It's not that we say this season, that season, deep, deep shallows, as much, as it is like we start dissecting the water column and invariably we start shallow with our blades and we work our way down the water column. So it's not something I do, but it's something I do. You know what I mean. It's part of our process and it's part of our process all season long and and you know, at the later that you get in the year, yeah, we tend to stay a little deeper, you know. But we're always fishing in, you know. We always seem to be fishing in, you know, 12 to 18 feet of water, 20 at the most. So we don't go super deep for muskies. You don't want to pull a big fish out of deep water. It's not good for the fish, right, Right?
Speaker 2:right right.
Speaker 4:You know what?
Speaker 2:Luis. Yeah, go ahead, cj, go ahead. You mentioned the water column. Any good angler that I've talked to in the past I always used to just fish one part of the water column and think the fish weren't there and I'd move on. But any good angler that I've talked to, they always work that water column either start deep, mid to top, and that's something a lot of people sleep on. They stay at the middle of the water column and just think the fish aren't hitting. But to work all the different parts of the water column I think it's a really good thing for our listeners to learn is just don't give up on a spot you know, stay, work all the depths of it.
Speaker 6:Yeah, you can't, like, you can't let your insecurities and how tired you are get the best of you Because, like, when we fish water that we're familiar with, you know, like certain parts of the St Lawrence or the Rideau or parts of you know Nipissing, the fish are there, like it's not that there's no musky in the lake anymore. We know the fish are there and if they're not hitting at a certain depth, we're gonna, we're gonna dig them out, we're gonna hit them in the nose with our freaking lures and we're gonna make sure that we we either piss them off and they bite or we find that hungry one, right, maybe, maybe the water temps are, are very cold and they're not very active and you've got to deliver that. You know that that lure right to the fish, um, so it's. You got to have that confidence. The fish are to the fish. So you've got to have that confidence. The fish are there. The fish didn't just leave.
Speaker 6:Like you know, john Anderson, years ago on our show, said you know he talks about these telemetry studies they did and so many fish that they caught. He talked about a fish named girtha that they caught years apart but was only like 100 feet away from where they had caught it previously, you know. So a lot of these fish are resident fish. You get transitory migratory fish a lot Lake Erie, from St Clair to Lake Erie. They travel, some of them travel far, but a lot of fish are resident fish and they live within a couple hundred feet or a few hundred feet of where they're going to be their whole lives. So the fish, the fish are there. You're just doing it wrong.
Speaker 4:Do you think that's the same in smaller lakes, like in the Coerthas Frank, or do you think that's more big water? Do you think that's more Georgian Bay, the Nipissings? Do you think a little lake like Rice Lake? Do you think they'll stay in the same spot all the time? I do yeah, you do, eh, yeah.
Speaker 6:I think that's the way these fish are.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Even in a lake that's like roughly, let's say, between eight feet to 15 feet, the whole lake, there's no deep ends, there's no nothing, yeah, I do.
Speaker 6:I mean. I mean, the Niagara river is not a river, but I can tell you you know I I bitch and moan about the Niagara all the time on the show. Yeah, I know, right, but the fish that I have caught there my best fish and maybe my second and third best fish were pulled from the same spot and that's you know. You're talking 19, 20 feet at the deepest point and it's not very, it's not very wide across. What is it? 250, 300 feet across?
Speaker 4:Nothing.
Speaker 6:Or the fact that every freaking fish that's pulled out of there. You see those smokestacks where Strawberry Island is in the back of every picture. The fish are always there right, and I know, look, I know at certain times of year, especially late season, you're getting fish come off the lake. So I'm not talking about those, but early mid-season fish. We're pulling them out of the same spots.
Speaker 4:You know you're probably right. Whenever we troll a nipissing or we cast a nipissing, it's always the same spots, for a reason, right.
Speaker 6:Sure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we know.
Speaker 6:Tone's not going to argue. I don't know who said it last time on my show we had to bleep it off, but we know the name of some of those.
Speaker 2:That guy right here. I can't remember who it was, but yeah, the host with the most.
Speaker 6:Dean saved the day and put a good bleep in there for our show, so it was hilarious.
Speaker 4:Give him the coordinates next time, tone, come on, man, it's getting there.
Speaker 7:That sounds like smash. That sounds like.
Speaker 3:This portion of the show was brought to you by getting there.
Speaker 4:Here's the exact coordinates.
Speaker 3:Oh boy, oh boy Lou has a question.
Speaker 7:No, I mean, I feel like what I'm learning here and Siege knows exactly what I'm talking about but our bass fishing has evolved so much the last couple years but our muskie fishing has not, and we accommodate to our lures a lot of the time. We have lures that we love, we have baits that we love, we have our setups and we accommodate our fishing style to those baits and we can't. We got to stop doing that shit.
Speaker 4:So you're saying we fish in certain spots because that's what our lure lets us fish in.
Speaker 7:That's right, that's right and that's, and that's the one thing that I've learned, at least with Tony and, and you know, here here, listening to the ugly pike, it's like the way these guys are fishing is so different. You have to change for for every season and every different type of condition. That's why you do have a big box of baits, is because if you're going out there to chase fish, you have to be prepared to get out of that water column that you're used to.
Speaker 6:That's really insightful. That is such an insightful thing to say that you fish to your lures because, look, if I had my way, I would never take a lubowski flashbowski off my line. I would never take a dadson shit crab off my line. By the way, it's impossible to find that lure because you love it. That's a hard bait to get they're impossible to get, but I have like I got a box full of them. Thank god, damn it. I got.
Speaker 4:Like five of them.
Speaker 6:Dude, it's my favorite lure to throw. Those two lures are my favorite lures to throw because I get that biofeedback, that thump. I feel like I'm connected to the lure. It's easy to pull, it's good to cast. But then look what just happened to me last week. I put this little crankbait on and I can't stop thinking about this bait. Right now and as soon as I get mine delivered to me, it's going right to the front of the lineup.
Speaker 6:So even me, after a few years of really doing this seriously, I'm still evolving and I'm still open up to new ways. And man, I'm going to run the shit out of that thing in Nipissing and it's going to get killed. So you know what you got to have the open mind. But again, like it's tough for people who only get out once or twice or three times a year, it's really tough For me.
Speaker 6:This has become a job now for me, thank God, and so you know I get so much opportunities to go on the water and then in between my trips I can just live right on the lower Niagara River here, although I drive to the Niagara the upper, and I get a lot of opportunities to fish. Now I want content for the show. I network with people and get together with them to fish, because it's what we do, and it's easier for me to take that approach than someone that goes out once or twice and you throw your favorite lures. I get it, but you know what? This is muskie fishing, and if you want to reap the rewards, you've got to put the work in. That's it.
Speaker 3:There's no shortcuts. This is why it's such a fantastic thing. So you mentioned Frank, you mentioned, you know, building content for your show. You guys have been you and your co-host, chris which I want to bring up with you because Chris, the co-host of the Ugly Pike podcast, a dear friend of yours as well the fact that you guys can still get together and do a podcast weekly with Chris with his job out, I believe, in Saudi Arabia. When does Chris come back and how do you guys find time to record show with content, because he's not here fishing with you as much. But when he does come, you guys, do you guys have a chance to hit the water together because his time here is so short, right?
Speaker 7:Yeah, is Chris even real? Because I've never met him.
Speaker 4:It's AI. You know what?
Speaker 5:Yeah, he's AI. Chris is AI.
Speaker 6:You know what the answer is. It's really tough and you know he'll come back, you know, for six weeks or so, and we fish a lot. So you know, this year, man, we tried so hard to get, we were going to do Eagle and Sewell. We just couldn't put it together. You know we have sponsors up there now, we have Anderson's Lodge and we have our friends on Eagle Lake and stuff like that, and we really wanted to try to do that this year. But you know what? We're going to go back to nipissing.
Speaker 7:We're probably gonna uh, we're probably gonna hit georgian bay with pete boston, and I'm so excited for that, so I want to. I want to be there.
Speaker 6:Man, I'm gonna be chasing you guys with my little boat. I'm gonna pull out of my driveway at four in the morning and see headlights behind me the whole way.
Speaker 6:That's right, that's right narcos man, we're coming after you. Yeah, so you know. So the answer is we. Chris has a, an understanding wife, as do I, and the more Ugly Pike grows and becomes popular and becomes a business for us and a job, which is weird, still to say it's. This is our obligation to the listeners to deliver a good product, and so Chris is a freaking beast. He always delivers, he always finds a way to deliver, and it's what makes us successful. We're two very, very driven guys and we never let each other down, and it's the key to our success. I couldn't do this show. This show would not be the same without him. The show wouldn't be the same without me.
Speaker 3:But Chris is a real Speaking on the Ugly Pike podcast without me, but Chris is a real Speaking on the Ugly Pike podcast, which, if our listeners haven't listened to the Ugly Pike, you got to tune in. These guys are, I mean, just with this interview with Frank alone. I'm learning so much already. But you know, you mentioned it's a business now and I want to touch on the Ugly Pike. Everyone knows about the Ugly Pike beer. It's been around for a bit, but the e-commerce store we got to touch base on that because you've been working really hard on this, frank. Can you tell us a little bit about the e-commerce store and what's happening with the Ugly Pike podcast?
Speaker 4:And also the new Ugly Pike beer. That's changed.
Speaker 6:That's changed recently, yeah, so where do I start with the beer? Yeah, the development of the store is, you know, we thought let's open a store, we'll sell stuff, and then it was like, you know, okay, we don't want to just have any shirts, we want to have fishing shirts, high performance, uv, nice. You know, we were lucky enough to meet Tim Dawson up at the show. You guys know, right from Campus Crew. I love him man, I love him so much. He delivered two amazing designs and two amazing products that we have in our e-commerce store now.
Speaker 6:So those are available, although we have a very small quantity. We're just kind of testing the waters and see what our listeners want. I went over to see another Tim over at Raw Fish, because at the Sportsman Show, guys, we saw these awesome everyone was walking around with these great hats, with these patches, and I'm just like wow, these are the nicest hats I've ever seen. And I saw his booth and I'm like, hey, I went over and talked to him and man, he's such a smart guy and so I got him to do our hats and you know, we got a shit ton of hats now, that's a beauty, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isn't it nice man? Oh, that's really good.
Speaker 6:That's a nice hat, so we got three different designs. These are really nice patches, which you know they're known for, and so we threw them up. In our store. We've got Ugly Meat, which is a high-protein boat-fuel snack that is no steroids no hormones.
Speaker 3:Hormones, no antibiotics. It's got heart in it. You can't taste the heart. Tony, did you taste them? Yes, brother, I was just going to tell you Frank sent me a prototype. It came in the mail. I had no idea and you texted me You're like I sent you something, let me know if you get it and whatnot. And I got it and you said to me in the text you're like there's hearts to this. I tasted none of that, man. It was absolutely delicious.
Speaker 4:Did you also say to Tone not to share it with the guys, because I'm a little pissed at you, frank. So what's milk Surprised us one day and he's like I ate it all. And we're like ate what he's like. Frank, send me some samples.
Speaker 3:I'm like what the hell man?
Speaker 6:When we get our retail inventory I'll send some up for sure for you guys. But yeah, we've got a little bit of samples and I, you know, I, I, I sent them out to some people, I sent some over to the fishing Canada office as well and they are. They're the best pepperettes I ever had. And, like we don't want to be eating chips and shit in the boat, I take fitness really seriously. I lost 25 pounds in the last year. I'm 50 years old and the best shape of my life life and I want to keep it going and I want a protein snack in the boat and I don't want something that's full of fillers and crap.
Speaker 6:So we developed this product with a local boutique, butcher Norcini, in Niagara Falls. He's a superstar tone. I've, I've, I've been standing in front of his uh, his, his uh display case and I've sent you pictures and said look at this guy's meat, right, I mean gold and fat, grass fed beef. Like there's no higher quality. This guy's really, really dialed in and so the meat will be. I think we'll have it available probably in and around June 16th, 17th. We're literally waiting any day for the shipments to arrive. The beer will be available roughly around the same time, although it's going to take us a little bit longer. So today's, june 13th, we think in 10 days from now, we'll be in 30 beer stores across Ontario, and what I would yeah, so what I would say to the listeners is just keep your eye on our social media app at Ugly Pike and at Ugly Pike Brewing. We'll put messages on both, but when everything is ready to go for retail, it'll all be in our e-commerce store, including the beer. You can buy it and have it shipped to your location.
Speaker 4:What is the new name of the beer Frank, which I thought?
Speaker 6:was an amazing name. Yeah, ugly Pike Last Light Lager. That's so cool. So it's a light lager. It's the best lager. That's so cool, it's a light lager. It's the best lager I ever had. Let me tell you a quick story how this came about.
Speaker 7:I'm a little bit pissed, Frank.
Speaker 6:I'm a little pissed.
Speaker 7:Because I got one tall boy left in my garage. Oh, the Pilsner Of the original. That's right, that's right, and I feel like I can't drink it. It's right, that's right, and I feel like.
Speaker 6:I can't drink it. No, leave it in there.
Speaker 7:It's going to break my heart. Leave it in there.
Speaker 6:It's going to break my heart If we accomplish what we think we will with this last light lager. The next skew that's coming out will be the re-release of the Pilsner. So, although, like our brewer that was brewing this before Went to jail, right Went to jail, right? Well, I think he made jail?
Speaker 6:I'm not sure. Anyways, okay, yeah, well, I don't know why. You would say that I don't know what happened with them. Okay, but they're not there anymore and so we own the recipe. So we're going to crank that back up, we're going to circle back with that, but the last light lager. So what we did was we actually Ug. Last Light Lager. So what we did was we actually Ugly Pike Brewing Company bought a position in the Newark Brewing Company brewery a small position, but we wanted to have skin in the game, we wanted to show good faith as partners and, of course, we want to commit to this beer venture.
Speaker 6:We're really excited for it. So I went up to the gentleman who owns it His name's Griffin. Great guy, love working with him. And I said you know what? First of all, I tasted Newark's light lager. It's called oh yeah, and I tasted it. I go, griff, I go. This is the best light beer I ever had in my life. Like, it is light but it has a great flavor. It's the best light beer I ever had. And I said I want you to make our beer like this. And he goes. Well, we can't make it like this, exactly because they're both going to be in the tap room. So we got to do it a little different, but we'll get it close.
Speaker 6:So they made a huge batch. Here you go. We took all those samples to the Odyssey here how to feel? We gave out a ton of it and everybody liked it. And I kind of liked it. But I kind of said to him I'm like I just couldn't get out of my head how good theirs was and how perfect theirs was. And I said you know, griffin, I like this, but I don't love it as much as I love yours. And a couple of days and I said can we tweak it? So a couple of days later he calls me. He says I talked to my partner. This is what we're going to do. He said they do contract brewing for other labels. They said we had a client in here. They tasted your batch and they loved it, so we could give them that batch. And I said, okay, well, what do we get? He says we're going to give you guys the rights to the recipe for our light beer. So their light beer became dude. I couldn't be happier with the way this turned out.
Speaker 6:And Chris's father is our palate. The guy is just. He has got such a good palate for beer and when he tasted the first batch he wrote us an email. Now, look, I'm going to rewind.
Speaker 6:When he tasted the Pilsner the first time, he sent us an email and just said, oh my God, this is amazing and it was like a great beer. And he gave us all these reasons why it was amazing. So he tasted the new, the new light, the new first batch of the light lager and he sent us back yeah, it's good, it's good, it's good. But it wasn't like the review he gave us for the first Pilsner and they kind of echoed my sentiments. And then I took him one of the Hayas and then we got a review that was like we got for the Pilsner Holy shit, oh my God, this is the best light beer I ever had and this is what this is, this is what Ugly Pike's all about.
Speaker 6:And so it all worked out and I think, I think, given who are our audiences the musky guys, the anglers I think a light beer is a, is a is a better to market product. Um, and in me as a guy, I don't drink much at all myself, but when I drink I like to have a light beer because it's a light beer. I you know I don't want to get hammered and I don't want to get fat and all that stuff, or be like Dan, or be like Dan, what, yes, frank. And so look, it's really worked out well.
Speaker 2:So I couldn't be happier, that's good man and everyone knows the last light is the best time to fish.
Speaker 4:That's why I love the name.
Speaker 2:I'm a marketing guy and when I saw the can and I saw that logo, I'm like who came up with that? That's brilliant.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know what, the one who sent it to me and I'm like it's the perfect last light.
Speaker 2:It's a light year and fishing's the best at last light, I love it.
Speaker 4:How did Frank come up with that? That's what I thought.
Speaker 6:Frank didn't come up with it. Chris Wally came up with it.
Speaker 5:It was Chris's idea, ai Chris.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it was AI Chris.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what?
Speaker 6:I don't know if you guys have seen a can yet. I've seen it. I've seen it. It looks so cool.
Speaker 3:Oh man, you guys listening, can't see it. It actually looks like my tattoo. They got to check out this can. How can they see this? Is there pictures of this on social media?
Speaker 2:Tone. We reposted it on socials. We had our listeners think it was our beer and they wanted to buy it, that's right. I'm like no man, that's Ugly Pike. That's Ugly Pike. They're ready to buy a case of it.
Speaker 6:Go to UglyPikePodcastcom and go to our e-com store. You can see the can and we're so proud of it, you know that image captures everything we love as anglers, right. It's that moment that we love, that we wait for every day.
Speaker 6:So, we're super stoked, so like, look, we soft-launched our apparel, our hats and our shirts. We haven't sold a damn thing yet. The reason is I haven't really pushed it in the show or on social media yet because we're giving free shipping for orders over $115. And what we don't want to do is have our listeners angry that you know, I bought $115 worth of stuff and now I got to go back and buy pepperettes and I don't get the free shipping. So we're kind of waiting for everything to be ready and then we're going to just push this like crazy Smart move. Yeah, we want to take care of our listeners. So, as much as we would like to see sales right now, we're a little impatient and excited. As soon as we're populated and we'll be populated within 10 days then we're going to start pushing like crazy and seeing what this can do.
Speaker 3:So by the time this podcast airs, folks you're going to be able to purchase. Check out the e-commerce store, check out the Ugly Pike podcast. I got to say, frank, time flies every single time we talk to you, brother, and I think we just got to get on the water together, man, because just talking to you my blood's boiling.
Speaker 6:Tone. Let me ask you something before we sign off. Can I ask you something? The blood's boiling Tone. Let me ask you something before we sign off. Can I ask you something? So I'm making a dish for the first time for my family. I've never made it before. It's called Crackle, but it's pork belly.
Speaker 4:Oh nice.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 4:We made it yesterday at the shop.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dan, they've been popping pork belly like crazy over there.
Speaker 6:But I'm doing this over three days. Okay, like I'm doing this, I'm doing this over three days. Okay, like I'm going to aerate the pork, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I think I salt the underside and then I sit it. I'm not sure when I salt it, I gotta, I gotta, look at the recipe, but I'm sitting, I'm going to aerate it and'm going to smoke it at 250. Yeah, and then just keep turning it, and there's a whole process to it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the process. I mean the salt under the underbelly for two days. What that's going to do is it's going to draw all the moisture out of the meat. That's the whole process and that's what's going to help with your crackling, right? When you draw the moisture out of any meat and when you have a thick fat cap, like I believe you say, you're using pork belly, right? Yeah, yeah, pork belly, you want to salt the underside, because then what's going to happen? It's going to draw the moisture out. Two days is a perfect amount of time and when you do put it on a smoker or in your oven or whatnot, what's going to happen is you're going to get the most unbelievable fat cap crispy and it's like eating popcorn. And you guys I seen the picture, you guys did it. You guys just did it right.
Speaker 4:We served it yesterday. So our chef JP did it on Tuesday and we served it Wednesday, right, yes, and we didn't smoke it, though we used the rationale to cook it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But it's like popcorn man, it's like the pork popcorn, and anyone who's listening that wants to try this recipe out. Frank, if you're cool, share your recipe. Let us know the results and how it turns out, because we'd love to share that on the Fish in Canada website as a recipe of the day, and I'll tell you right now if we're going to be pairing something to eat with this or to drink with this. Lou, I don't even want to ask you. I think there's a nice lager that we could pair with this pork belly, isn't there? Set him up. Set him up.
Speaker 2:What a segue.
Speaker 7:I'll be honest, I think this is the easiest pairing I've ever done in the show. But there's a new beer coming out from our friends at Ugly Pike, and what's it called? Again? Frank.
Speaker 6:Last Light Lager. I'm getting my first case on Monday, so I'm stoked Nice.
Speaker 7:Last Light Lager. Look, I haven't tried it yet, so I can't really vouch for it. But look, I've had the Pilsner. I've loved it since day one. And as long as Frank keeps doing what he's doing, I'm sure I'll enjoy this one too.
Speaker 6:Any suggestion on garnishes or sauces I can serve with that.
Speaker 3:Oh man, if you were to do something sweet, I believe a honey garlic or a honey glaze with a little bit of citrus, maybe some orange I'm going to tell you right now you need the sweetness to help caramelize the fat cap, and a lot of people make this mistake. Frank, it's actually a really great question when you are cooking something like pork belly, or even when, dan and Lou, when they have the picanha, it's got a really big fat content on that cut of meat. What you want to do is obviously you want to. If you're grilling, you want to do fat cap down, you want to get that sear, because what happens is when you're eating the fat, that's what's going to give the moisture to the meat. Again, you're salting, so you're drawing the moisture out of the actual meat itself, so you're going to rely on that fat to drip down as it's cooking.
Speaker 3:You said 250. I imagine you're going to do it for hours and what's going to happen is, as that fat is caramelizing, that juice is going to literally fall right into the meat and that's where you're going to get that flavor. And adding anything as simple as honey, sugar brown sugar is another one, but citrus, adding citrus to it like lemon, lemon zest, lemon juice, even orange Wait a minute like citrus.
Speaker 6:together with I got a honey farm down the street from my house.
Speaker 5:I get the best.
Speaker 6:I get the best non-pasteurized fresh honey right from the bee's ass.
Speaker 3:You glaze the top of that pork, belly brother, throw it in your smoker. I'm going to tell you right now, it's going to be candy.
Speaker 6:Wait a minute, so I should put honey on it for the process.
Speaker 3:Yes, 100%, and you know what. There's another thing If you are going to put a drip tray because a lot of people make this mistake If you're going to put a drip tray because a lot of people make this mistake If you're doing something that has that much fat, all that fat, when it's bleeding out while it's cooking, it's not all going into the meat, it's going into your grill. So a lot of people, if you put a tray under that and add apple cider, vinegar, orange juice, no-transcript, even add a little bit more honey to it, make it so it thickens up. And I'm going to tell you right now, brother, it's going to be dynamite. I'm tasting it, I already know.
Speaker 6:That's really great because I'm doing for an appetizer, I'm going to do a whipped brie with some honey in it, some of that fresh honey. Wow, a whipped brie. That sounds great. And then, for the main, this is just a Saturday dinner with the family. Like I love cooking, we thought you were just a musky hunter. Wow, no, tony knows that I like to cook. And then I'm going to do my smoked pork chili verde burritos that I make. I showed you that stuff when we were together.
Speaker 6:So it's going to be Saturday's going to be a good day here with the family. So Saturday or Sunday, Sunday Sunday.
Speaker 2:Well, listen, folks, if you're listening. I can't wait to show up. I can't wait to go Saturday. I'm going, I'm in, I'm in.
Speaker 6:Saddle me up 100% for the suggestion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're buckling up, frank, we got a big night, we got a stretch limo picking up the boys. We're going to watch Cody. Oh God, tomorrow, hopefully tomorrow, when we see Cody, he brings the belt and hopefully he brings it to your shop next week he will, he'll get it.
Speaker 6:Cody's a freaking beast.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 2:He'll get it.
Speaker 3:That's I got to say thanks for taking the time to joining us on episode one of season two of the Eating Wild podcast. And listen, man, it's always great to have you in and give our regards to Chris when you see him, and we're listening all the time. Man, it's great that you're our partner and our friend. And tight lines, bro. This is Smash Malecka. We're getting coached Team tune up the tune for season two with Chris Johnson, hooks at Martins and top dog prayer boys. Thanks for joining me today. Begin.
Speaker 2:Get the net.
Speaker 5:We've got the stars lined up. They're coming out ready to play. It won't be long. They'll be pulling up fish and we'll be serving them their favorite dish. All the feeling screaming reels on fishing fire.