Shaping the Future of Education: An Interview with President Lori Gonzalez

Join us in this episode as we sit down with Dr. Lori Gonzalez, the accomplished President of Ohio University, to discuss the trajectory of modern education. Dr. Gonzalez's expansive career journey, from her roots as a language pathologist to her current position as the President of Ohio University, offers a wealth of insights into the world of higher education.

Throughout the conversation, Dr. Gonzalez shares her visionary leadership approach, including the dynamic strategies of the Center for Strategic Leadership, which underscore adaptability and innovation in today's educational sphere. The discourse encompasses her strong vision for fostering diversity, equity, and inclusion on campus, promoting an environment where every student feels valued. Additionally, Dr. Gonzalez delves into the realm of overcoming challenges in higher education, addressing declining enrollment and evolving student preferences. She outlines innovative measures like stackable certificates and immersive learning experiences, all aimed at keeping universities responsive and resilient in the face of workforce shifts. With anecdotes and guidance, Dr. Lori Gonzalez paints an inspiring picture of the future of higher education and its influential role in shaping students' lives.

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OnBrand Podcast Studios produced this episode. Special thanks to Audio Engineer Alex Winnenberg, Producer Nick Winnenberg, and Marketing Specialist Cori Stokes.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to the Leader Lounge Podcast, brought to you by the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership, the Ohio University Online MSM, and Ohio University College of Business. This podcast is hosted by Dr. Amy Taylor Bianco.

SPEAKER_05: 0:15

All right, we're here at the Leadership Lounge in the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership. We're here with Nick Winnenberg, co-host, and today our guest is Dr. Lori Stewart-Gonzalez, and we're also here with Jen Traxler, who is the the Executive Director of the Leadership Center.

SPEAKER_01: 0:33

I am surrounded by three extremely powerful professional people, so I am intimidated right now. So this is gonna be a fun little conversation. It's

SPEAKER_05: 0:39

gonna be great.

SPEAKER_01: 0:41

But first off, welcome to Ohio University.

SPEAKER_03: 0:43

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be

SPEAKER_01: 0:45

here. What's your first thoughts? What's the vibe like?

SPEAKER_03: 0:47

The vibe is great. You know, when I was in Louisville, people would say to me, it's a special place. They'd send a note, OU, it's a special place. I got it on LinkedIn. I got it in the mail. I got it in my Louisville address. And I thought, everybody thinks that, right? Everybody thinks that. But there's an alchemy here that I haven't experienced before. And it's with the alumni. It's with the students too. So it is a special place. And so people ask me, have I had surprises? And they ask that in the vein of, You know, like, what's wrong with us? There have been none of those. You know, we're going to have issues. Every school has issues. But I've never once said, we do what here? Right? So it's been really great. Been really great.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35

So Court Street hasn't surprised you? No,

SPEAKER_03: 1:38

no, no, no, no,

SPEAKER_01: 1:39

no. That's fantastic. And what's led you here? I know you've had a very professional background as well.

SPEAKER_03: 1:44

So I've been in higher education for over 30 years. I trained as a speech language pathologist and worked in the field for about five years before I went back for my degree, my PhD. And I've always been in public universities. And I started as a faculty member, moved into an associate dean role, a dean role. I've been a provost. I've been an interim president. And so I was nominated for this position, and I always knew the reputation of the school. But when you start looking at the true assets, it was like I have to make a go for this job. And so that was a great journey and sort of the culmination of a lot of work but a lot of support from people along the way.

SPEAKER_01: 2:27

I love that. That's a great answer. And I think it's looking at the legacy that you've left in the past that brings us a ton of hope. Well, thank you. And you've done amazing things, so I'm very excited. So going into the next step and kind of what you're looking at at Ohio University, there's a lot of really unique opportunities that we have going into the space. What are you most excited to bring? What are some of those big-picture, high-level ideas that's kind of floating around?

SPEAKER_03: 2:50

Well, I'm gonna talk first about the challenges. Because there are challenges in higher education everywhere, so we will have them as well. we have a declining demographic. So children haven't been born that we need to enroll in college. I'm working

SPEAKER_01: 3:04

on it. Thank you. 18 years from now, I got your back. That's

SPEAKER_03: 3:07

good. We need another Bobcat. And then the other part that's really challenging us right now is although the number of high school graduates nationally has gone up by about 7%, the number of those students choosing to go to college has gone down about 4%. Wow. So there opting not to go to college. So when we talk about the students that are opting out of college, we have to figure out how we can reach them. And I think one of the things it's going to challenge us to do is do more just-in-time learning. For example, we might do stackable certificates that you stack three of those on, but it goes right into your bachelor's program. Now, the issue that we're going to have in higher ed with that, it's a great idea, but right now, our institution is rewarded by the state for graduates. So if there's a way to mark how we are helping the workforce grow by meeting students where they are. And it's not going to be all students. I mean, many parents still want their student to go to a residential institution. But the future, five years, 10 years down the line, we want to be really flexible. We want to be nimble. And we want to be able to take something and move very quickly. And as we all know in higher education, that's a challenge for us. So that's the milieu of the biggest challenge that we're going to face. We also have the challenge of the public losing confidence in higher ed. And I think the way we get that back is we have alumni talk to people about how a degree changed their lives. I mean, and it's true. I meet them all the time. And they'll say, I got a degree in such and so, but they We also talk about the experience on the campus. And so I'd like to run a campaign about this is what higher education is all about, you know, first generation or a legacy, you know, my grandmother, my mother, and I, you know, those kinds of stories because those are the transformational parts. And then the third thing we do to let people know about it is we talk about economic development. Our universities are the economic engines for Ohio, so we have to talk about that. That's the challenge part. But the fun part are the assets. What are we going to move forward? And the board charged me with setting the strategy for the campus. And we'll set it for five years. What did you say? No pressure. No pressure. Set it for five years, looking at 10 years, knowing that even in five years, we have to adjust each year. But when you look at Ohio University, what the strategies we want to develop will push forward our uniqueness. Very competitive market. So, you know, if we have a good program in X, but there are good programs in X all around, we'll keep that program going strong. But we want to push forward those things that are so quintessentially OU. The work we're doing in coal, not to burn it, but to use it in very different ways, that's really unique. The discoveries we have about the life of dinosaurs that's telling us stuff about bone development to I know. That is a really cool thing. And then the really important thing that we need to push forward, every school says we have great experiential learning. We have great experiences for students. It is real here in a way that we have to develop the narrative to share that with people because everyone's going to say I had a great experience or we work on the experiences for our students. but they're deeper here and they're more frequent here. And so when you set those strategies, and we have to talk to the collective about it. If I had come with the strategies written down, here's where we're going, I would not be the right person for the job. So we have to talk to people about what inspires you, what's exciting, where do you see our future? We'll still do a lot of things. We'll still enroll students. We'll try to increase retention. But what are those huge big ideas that we're gonna push forward, because it can build some excitement on the campus.

SPEAKER_01: 7:23

I love that. And I love the fact that you came into it with an open mind and you had those conversations. So when you were having those conversations, what kind of themes stood out that kind of surprised you or that were different from what you were thinking?

SPEAKER_03: 7:34

So this was a pleasant surprise. So I've spent the summer traveling to research labs. And I chose to do that in the summer because not many students are here and the labs are always open. They're always open. So when I go in those labs, I meet the scientist or the researcher who spent his career or her career working in an area. But in those labs are students. Every lab has students. So the thing that was very cool here is when you go in a lab, you think maybe the talking head will be the scientist because he wants the president to know, she wants the president to know. In every instance, students have told me what they're doing. And those will be freshmen all the way to seniors, graduate students getting masters, PhD students, and then we've heard from some postdocs too. So that's the example I'm giving about this experiential learning. You know, the freshmen will just sort of tell me about the technique they're trying to learn, but they know why they're learning it. And then by the time they're seniors, they're actually doing their own experiments. So that's been a really eye-opening kind of experience for me. I think it's everyone has students, but but it's been richer in a way. Love that.

SPEAKER_05: 8:49

And President Zurich-Gonzalez, one thing that we love is just from the very moment you came to us, even before you got here physically, you're sending out things, you know, let me know what's special about OU. Let me know. And you're asking the community, all the stakeholders in this area. And I think that really speaks to the flavor of OU. A lot of people, I'm sure, want to tell you what is special about it. There's just so many different things. And I I know you're really interested in the student experience and the student engagement. And that's a big part of the Walter Center that we're at here, the Walter Center for Strategic Leadership, is so many different student programs for the undergraduate. And I hope we can do a good job of articulating what we do, because I think the deeper you look, the more you'll find. Like you said, it's not the bad stuff, it's the good stuff. You keep finding more things to elevate. And Nick has been part of leading student experiences for us. That's how he originally got involved beyond being a student. I

SPEAKER_01: 9:52

appreciate that, Dr. B. Yeah, and we do the fireside chat and different things in the MSM program to really engage everyone. And especially when you're doing an online program, that's always been the focus of how do you bring in the community aspect of it. So it's been fantastic to kind of explore that as a learning opportunity. But there's just something different about Ohio University students, and I really think that's why you see so many multigenerational students as well, is because there's this built-in grit or something different. Have you been able to put your finger on it? No? Okay, good. I'm glad it's not just

SPEAKER_03: 10:22

me. But I've observed it. And so I'll be anywhere sitting down to lunch in a little restaurant in Columbus. And I'm with my chief of staff, Carly Leatherwood, and she has on an Ohio University shirt the fellow sitting beside us, not at our table, says, go Bobcats. Well, then you find out he's an alum. He's going to talk to you for 30 minutes. He rode motorcycles with Hugh Sherman. I mean, it's uncanny for me, the passion that the alumni have. So, you know, always I would hear, no matter where I've been, I'm an alum, blah, blah, blah. I loved it. But a lot of times the passion connection with the universities around athletics you know if you're in a power five school it's athletics that brings the alumni back and we have that here but not at the same level so other things bring our alumni back i just met a set of twins walking through they graduated in the 80s and He had married one of her friends, so there are three of them going, and they're going, was that here this, and was this this wide? And so I stopped them to see if they were alums to say hello, so it's really great. You know, with the hashtag KnowOhio, that's what they've been doing. I got a video from the students in eSports. You've got to come and see us. So yesterday I went to see them. Oh, nice. Yeah, and it's a wonderful experience. And those students are working on experiential learning for students and creating a sense of belonging for students so that's another really positive thing that we see on the campus

SPEAKER_01: 12:02

so it sounds like a lot of the themes with the student involvement yes with the labs and also the esports team like the students just seem more engaged that's something i've noticed myself as well right and there's something sorry

SPEAKER_03: 12:13

i was going to say you can you can go to many places and get a very good degree i mean we've got 14 publics in this state alone. And so you can go and find that, but it's that other part. It's that what you do when you're not in a scheduled class, and I think we do that really well here.

SPEAKER_01: 12:32

I love that. And one of the things that you mentioned that I want to focus on the MSM program as well as the Stackable certificates, I was never thinking of doing a master's. And I actually had a conversation because Dr. B was one of my mentors. She actually, when I was an undergrad, I was dating my then wife in her class, and we were trying to hide it from Dr. B. So she's always been a huge mentor for me. So when I was having struggles in my professional life, I had a couple of businesses and things weren't going well in the middle of a recession. It was difficult. I reached out to Dr. B. I'm like, hey, I love your eyes on these. These are the things we're focusing on. A, the fact that I still had a network with professors 10 years later that I could reach out to, that's special. The second thing, she's like, have you thought about doing your master's? I'm like, I'm not an academic, Dr. B. You know that about me. And she was like, no, think about this. It's a stackable certificate program. You pick what you study. She's like, you're gonna get the leadership certificate, you get the management certificate, but it sounds like you need data, you need the analytics. I'm not analytics minded. That's what made this program unique. So you kind of see that as the future of education in general, right? The kind of pick your own adventure? So have you seen that being established outside of Ohio University?

SPEAKER_03: 13:40

No, it's challenging because, I mean, I've seen certificates, but we don't do many at the undergraduate level. And part of it is how we are funded. So we've got to get the state funding funding agencies, higher education department to understand that you have to reward for different things. The reason I believe that's the future is somebody could start at a community college not ready to come to a four-year and work and get part of that degree and then we add on other certificates and we're meeting them where they are in that moment and I think it would also help some people who have maybe some college but stopped out because of life

SPEAKER_02: 14:24

and

SPEAKER_03: 14:24

we could bring them back in with some stackable certificates the other the other thing I think higher education is going to need to do our students are already telling us this we need more degrees around big ideas rather than then you're going to slot into one discipline. Because almost every student that I talk to, they have a major, They have a minor and they're getting another certificate or they're doing something else or something else. Double major. They're telling us they want this broad look at the world. And we can do that. And some schools have done that really well. Arizona State has really coalesced around big challenges that we face in our world. And I think that's the direction we have to go. Now, that's scary for someone who spent 11 years in college getting a Ph.D., right? Because you've got to let go of some of your disciplinary boundaries. and it takes a lot of collaboration, takes a little bit more time, but the payoff is going to be better for us. At the institution I was before, we were incentivizing faculty to come up with those big ideas so that they had a reason to do it and kind of rewarded them for thinking outside

SPEAKER_01: 15:38

the discipline. Because you're generating collaboration, and that's going to cross the entire industry. I love that. Any other questions?

SPEAKER_04: 15:46

I was just wondering, because obviously this is the Walter Center for Strategic Leadership, tell us a little bit about your leadership journey. When you were in speech pathology, did you aspire to be a president of a university? Tell us a little bit about that part of your climb.

SPEAKER_03: 16:03

I think it's always important for people who maybe have been in the business for a long time to talk about their journeys because everyone assumes you just became that. Do you know what I mean? I could never become that. And so I talk about that a lot with young people that I mentor. So my path was what I call serendipity. I was a speech language pathologist. I worked in the VA. I worked in a hospital. I worked in public schools. I did private practice. So I was doing the whole gamut of service delivery. And then I was asked to teach a continuing education session to a bunch of speech-language pathologists. And I thought, this teaching gig is really pretty cool. And so I started working part-time supervising students at Eastern Kentucky

SPEAKER_02: 16:53

University. And

SPEAKER_03: 16:56

this was all after my master's. And one of the faculty members there had been my mentor as a master's student. And she was moving to the University of Florida, and she said, you should get a doctoral degree. So I sort of stumbled Stumbled into that.

SPEAKER_01: 17:09

You stumbled into a doctorate. Oh, you know, we all do that sometimes. Happened to me once, actually. And

SPEAKER_03: 17:15

so then I started a journey in higher ed. And what my assistantship was during my graduate program, I was the assistant to the chair of the department. So many times individuals in my program supervised students as their assistantship. Well, I was in administration. And I loved it. So I move on to be an assistant professor, an associate professor. And I was asked to do an internship in the dean's office. Serendipity. And my job was to help with the strategic plan, get us ready for a regional accreditation visit. And then after that was over, they said, well, why don't you be an associate dean? And then I became the dean of that college and was the dean for seven years. And then the provost at the time said, you're ready to be a provost. So it wasn't, I never had a chart. It was really, I always made myself be open to all opportunities. So you just don't lock into one thing and you try to learn as much as you can. And I just, because I did that, it served me well in the long run. It really did serve me well.

SPEAKER_04: 18:24

That is exceptional. And that's why I think one of the things we try to work with our students on. It's just because you're locked into one role or one discipline. The whole interdisciplinary, taking the road less traveled. Don't have your life so planned out that You don't take those opportunities that you never even thought of. So I think that that was putting an exclamation point on what we've been trying to espouse with a lot of our students here, too.

SPEAKER_03: 18:50

Well, before I went back for my doctoral degree, so I'm in a small town, and I would volunteer for this, and I'd say yes to this, and I'd help lead the health fair, and I'd do this. And my dad would ask me about it, and I'd say, Dad, this is going to look really good on my resume. And finally, after some years, he said, Lori, you need to start getting paid for some of the things

SPEAKER_02: 19:08

that you're putting on your resume.

SPEAKER_03: 19:12

But that was just being open to opportunities. I think if you can do that, that's great. But I have to say there are other people, and I've been in leadership programs with them, that charted their path. Two years here, three years here, in seven years I'm going to be. And for some of them it was going to be a college president, and they were. So you have to value both paths. But I think the serendipity path is one people think that they're not as focused but it's really a great journey, I think. What's

SPEAKER_05: 19:44

that openness to experience, right? That openness to that next opportunity.

SPEAKER_01: 19:50

Can I ask you kind of a personal question about that as well? So looking at that and always being open to opportunities, that can burn people out pretty quick, right? Especially if you're like, yeah, of course I'll do that, of course I'll do that. Then you're volunteering 40 hours and you're working 40 hours and it turns into this thing. So how did you pick what was going to be the opportunity you invest in versus not?

SPEAKER_03: 20:06

Well, I tried to get something that I would have some kind of power But I will tell you, at one time I had on my computer screen a little piece of paper that said no. All right? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:20

The hardest word there ever

SPEAKER_03: 20:21

was. So it was like, think about this, and is this something you really want to do? You know, you do things because you want to help somebody, but if it's going to be a lot of work, Like psychic energy and all that, maybe not do it. Because that is a real issue. And when I was dean, I met with all our faculty members who'd not yet made tenure, who were not yet tenured. And they would bring the whole range of things they were asked to do. And we would discuss which ones might move them further down the line. Oh, I love that. And sometimes it might be something they really thought would be fun. But I said, this is going to take this many hours. Can you do that and still do these things that will move you forward? And I thought that was a good thing. way for them to learn how to suss out I should do this I can say no to that thing because we are you know we always want to learn and we think we ought to just jump into everything so that's a really good question and something I think we need to let young people know they don't have to do that, right? One of

SPEAKER_04: 21:20

the things that we have in the center is we do a lot with Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, especially for our undergrads. And with that, from a principle-centered leadership perspective, understanding what's most important to them. And one of my favorite Covey quotes is, it's easy to say no when there's a deeper yes burning inside. So when they identify what's most valuable to them and what their course is going to be, when somebody does come up an opportunity, I'd love to help you. However, it's not in alignment with where I'm trying to get myself. And so I think you just put a great example onto that.

SPEAKER_01: 21:57

Yeah, I have a sticky note on my computer that said dedicate or delegate, right? And that was, I'm like, can I dedicate my energy to this? And I was always saying yes, but Alex is one of my mentors and he was like, you gotta stop, right? So figure out when to delegate and pass that off and say, it's not my deep burning yes, we need to pass this off. So I have one more question and pass back. But looking at that, is there any other advice that you would give to undergrads? Because it's kind of an unprecedented environment coming in post COVID and everything's kind of changing. What major advice do you have for undergrads that are in the university.

SPEAKER_03: 22:28

So this is the advice I give almost every time I speak to them. And I just welcomed the international students just this week. And it's make sure you go deep into your discipline and study. I mean, that's why you're here. But that in and of itself is insufficient in my view. Get out, get engaged. I told the international students, don't go to the cafeteria and get your food to go and take it back. Sit down, make sure you meet somebody else, somebody that's different than you that you can have that conversation. And then the other piece of advice I give is the strongest people with the greatest resilience are those that ask for help. And some of the students were just shaking their head like, that gives you permission to say, I am strong, I am resilient, I know I need help. And that can be mental health services. I tell them, if you just aren't feeling like you usually feel, just get checked out. Just go talk to somebody. If your studies are, you're struggling a little bit, don't think you'll pull an all-nighter and pull the test out of the bag. Go and talk to somebody. And so We really want to say it's more than surviving. We want you to thrive. You thrive by asking for help when you need it. And so those to me are the three things. Study hard, get engaged, get engaged because that's the gift of Ohio University, and then ask for help. And that's really hard for some people to do. It was hard for me when I was an undergraduate. I wish somebody had said that to me, that you're stronger if you ask for help. So that's my general three points Those

SPEAKER_01: 24:09

are great three points of advice. It's like a tattoo, honestly. I

SPEAKER_04: 24:13

wish somebody would have told me those things when I was in college. I know, where were you 10 years ago for me? Or maybe they did and I just didn't listen to that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:20

That's kind of how advice works. Like, okay, great, moving on. So Dr. V, any final questions and we're going to wrap it up?

SPEAKER_05: 24:27

Just the leading with your passion and the things that you're saying for students I think works for the faculty and the community too. Do you have any advice for sort of faculty and staff or would it be sort of similar advice?

SPEAKER_03: 24:41

Well we just met with the new faculty and the provost was, I was speaking first and of course I'm just off the cuff and said get out of your office, get out of your building, go outside, meet someone new, and then she's talking about, you know, get engaged with any kinds of events that happen. So, you know, New faculty, they're like on the tenure track. They feel like they don't have any permission to just live.

SPEAKER_02: 25:11

And

SPEAKER_03: 25:12

so I think that's what we were trying to say to them. I said, I don't know if you ever have work-life balance, but you have to have both. I would tell our young faculty, I had one young person who was burning the candle. I said, you're burning it from both ends and in the middle. I said, keep in mind, no matter how many articles or grants or accolades you get, if you don't take care of things at home, it's not going to be worth it. And so I think that they need to know that while we want them to excel, we want them to succeed as human beings too. And I think that's a really important thing.

SPEAKER_05: 25:46

Oh, that's so important. I wish to have heard that too then, that sort of passion, resilience, and taking care of all parts of your life. I mean, that's so important. So important. So I want to thank you, President Stewart-Gonzalez, for being with us today, for giving us your kind of formula and advice for thinking about some of the issues that we faced both individually and as a community, and then for soliciting everyone's input and feedback as you go forward. It's a pleasure and an honor to have you

SPEAKER_02: 26:19

here

SPEAKER_05: 26:20

at the Walter Center for Strategic Leadership with our director, Dr. Jen Traxler, and co-host Nick Winnenberg. Thank you. I

SPEAKER_01: 26:29

do have one final question. This is with the outtakes. And Dr. B knows where this is going. I know,

SPEAKER_05: 26:33

I know.

SPEAKER_01: 26:34

If you were a Disney character, which would you be and why?

SPEAKER_05: 26:37

He's obsessed

SPEAKER_01: 26:37

with this. Which would I be and why? It's my favorite question of all time. I know a staffing company and every person. I'm not a

SPEAKER_03: 26:42

princess, so can I say that? I know what I'm not. I'm not a princess. I might be Moana. Really? Yeah, just go and just do

SPEAKER_01: 26:52

it. And follow the wind kind of thing. I love that. Great answer. I

SPEAKER_02: 26:56

love that.

SPEAKER_01: 26:57

I find myself being drawn to Moana. Moana's too, so I'm glad on a professional level you're also

SPEAKER_02: 27:02

Moana, so that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01: 27:02

Is there anything that we missed in the conversation you want to highlight or focus on differently?

SPEAKER_03: 27:06

No, but I really love this whole program now that I've learned about it because it's one of those things that students are learning all sorts of skills along the way. the OU way. I think that's really great. And I appreciate you. You've made me very comfortable. I appreciated the call before. So this has been a great event. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01: 27:26

We

SPEAKER_00: 27:27

appreciate you. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_03: 27:28

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00: 27:31

The Ohio University MSM program is hosting a virtual event Monday, October 16th at 6.30 p.m. A link to RSVP is in the description below. Hope to see you there.