Ohio University Leader Lounge

Navigating Academic Leadership: A conversation with Dean Jackie Rees Ulmer

• The Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership

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In this episode of The Leader Lounge, Dr. Amy Taylor Bianco engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Dean Jackie Rees Ulmer, the esteemed Dean of OHIO’s College of Business. Set against the backdrop of a picturesque morning on campus, the conversation delves into Dean Ulmer's remarkable journey from her early academic experiences to her current role. Dean Ulmer reflects on her transition from leadership at Iowa State University to becoming the Dean of one of the top colleges of business in the country, sharing valuable insights into the challenges and growth opportunities that come with leadership in the academy. 

Throughout the episode, the importance of mentorship, adaptability, and networking is underscored, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the multifaceted world of higher education leadership. Join in to explore Dean Ulmer's unique perspective on education, leadership, and the evolving landscape of higher education. 

 


For more information about the Ohio University MSM Program, click this link!

Check out the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership program here.

OnBrand Podcast Studios produced this episode. Special thanks to Audio Engineer Alex Winnenberg, Producer Nick Winnenberg, and Marketing Specialist Cori Stokes.

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the next episode of the Leader Lounge here at the Robert D. Walters Center for Strategic Leadership in the College of Business at Ohio University. And I'm here with co-host Nick Winnenberg and our Dean of the College of Business, Jackie Reese Ulmer. Welcome. Good morning.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a beautiful morning in Athens.

SPEAKER_01:

It is a perfect morning in Athens. Sunny, blue skies, 70 degrees. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

It's one of those days I walk by the campus, I'm like, why did I leave after undergrad? I'm like, I really should have just stayed here.

SPEAKER_01:

Money.

SPEAKER_02:

Money, that's true. That is why I left. The workforce side of it was a big portion of why I ended up not staying

SPEAKER_00:

here. But you keep coming back.

SPEAKER_02:

I do keep coming back. Because it's home. It's addicting. It's a part of it. So do you want to give us a little bit on your background and what got you here? Sure. So I

SPEAKER_01:

came here as the dean of the College of Business in February 2021, right in the middle of COVID. I was

SPEAKER_03:

like, great

SPEAKER_01:

timing. Although it... Deans travel a lot, meeting with alumni and friends, donors, and there was none of that during the pandemic. So it did allow me to get to know Athens, get to know the college, the university, and most importantly, the people. And I wouldn't trade that for anything. Before that, I was an associate dean and previously a department chair at Iowa State University, the Ivy College of Business. But I spent the first 17 years of my higher ed career at Purdue University. It was then the Krannert School of Management. Now it's the Mitch Daniel School of Business. So props to them for putting up for me as long as I did. But before that, I was in information systems. So my first job was COBOL programming, which may also betray my age, for a major rental car company. And so to this day, I always worry about something happened to the rental car because they really love all the profit that comes from all of their insurances that they kind of pressure you to buy. That makes sense. But if you don't buy it and something happens, it's kind of a headache.

SPEAKER_02:

I've been on both sides of that equation. I want to risk it and something bad happening and then second, I'm not going to risk getting it and something good happening or something not bad happening.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm convinced that I have control over the weather. If I have a rental car and they're calling for hail and I'm like, I'm loaded up. I'm going to get every coverage possible and then nothing happens. So maybe I should make a career out of that. I

SPEAKER_02:

feel like that could be a fun little transition.

SPEAKER_00:

You've got such an interesting background though in information systems and cybersecurity and then in administration and leadership. It's just such a great combination and kind of covers the breadth of what the college does.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think having the systems background has been really helpful because I tend to be a systems thinker Sure. And I see the college with its departments and centers, all the students. I see a system. You've got inputs. You've got some processing that happens. You've got output. And you ideally would have feedback loops that would, hey, where do we need to make some adjustments, some changes? Do we need to better prepare the inputs, being our students? Do we need to... And we're always changing processes, as any organization does. Sure. But... Yeah, it gives me the whole breadth and depth of what's happening here. I've noticed a lot of business school deans are coming from the information systems faculty ranks these days, and we don't think that's a coincidence. We think it's a complex system, and we're good at it. Right, you like

SPEAKER_02:

complex systems.

SPEAKER_01:

I love, well, I love to hate them sometimes, but.

SPEAKER_02:

Don't we all? And I think what's interesting about your career path, too, is you've seen a couple different cultures then. You've seen the very high technical cybersecurity background. You've also seen some Ivy League schools, it sounds like, and you've seen Ohio University. So what makes Ohio University different, specifically the College of Business, the MISM program, or the Strategic Center?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, they're all amazing institutions, and they all have their missions. And I think Ohio's unique geography, we're here in the southeast corner of the state, which is absolutely beautiful. No shade on Purdue or Iowa State, but lots of corn. And when there's not corn, there's beans.

SPEAKER_02:

Take that, Purdue. It is gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01:

But the scenery here in the Hocking Hills, kind of the foothills of Appalachia with its hills and just natural beauty. But it's the people and the experience, the emphasis on experiences that really make Ohio and the College of Business unique. You will get an experience here. I We build them into the system. You cannot leave here, whether you're here physically in Athens or you're somewhere in one of our online programs, you will have custom designed and very thoughtfully crafted experiences that are intended to elevate your professional abilities when you're in your career, whether you are a traditional undergraduate, straight from high school, 22, 23 years old, going out into the big world of work, or if you are a more seasoned professional looking to add to your toolkit so that you can move up further and faster in your career. We have experiences that are designed to support those moves.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. And I love the systems, the way you look at it, because it's the inputs, the outputs, things like that. A good part of the system taught to me by Dr. Amy Taylor Bianco is the external environment and how the internal environment reacts to some of those external trends. So what are you seeing happening in higher education space, both the good and the bad, that we're making those adaptations to?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, certainly it's really challenged here in the United States, public, private, you name it. Public support for higher education is not as high as it had been previously. People see it as they don't understand what happens and they pay a lot for it. And then you hear the narratives about people graduating with massive debt, like mortgage-level debt. And they're struggling to find jobs that are going to not only suit them professionally and personally, but allow them to pay down that debt. And you're hearing people are not having families, they're not getting married, they're not buying houses, they're not having children because of this. It's also important to realize that that is a really attractive soundbite, and I don't doubt that it has happened to people, and I feel so terrible for those people. But we know here at Ohio University and in the College of Business and in other accredited, AACSB-accredited colleges of business, that is our premier accreditor for business schools globally, not just here in the U.S., but students are coming out with... they have debt it's a very small amount and we know that Pretty much every single one of our students is going to go into a career position with a really great average starting salary. And they take off in their careers. So we have absolutely a very positive return on investment here at Ohio. It's a great investment to make in yourself, in your learners, in your family members, community members. The return on investment is extremely high. MARK

SPEAKER_02:

MIRCHANDANI- And I think it's so interesting you bring that up, too, because I was an undergrad. It worked out great for me, right? And even to the point that what I was thinking about doing the master's program, and I talked to Dr. B about it as well, she outlined the coursework and the flexibility of it, and the stackable certificates, the experiential learning, and the networking, and all the benefits you get from it. Even if it's not on paper, this is the exact career path it's going to provide you. It's more competitive. When you get out of it, you have those real-world skills that you're bringing to the workforce. And earlier in the season, we talked to Albert, and he was a recent graduate from my university, and he was promoted, I think, four times?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, during the course of his program.

SPEAKER_02:

Within the two years of the MSM program. So you see that ROI. It's just kind of difficult to quantify.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. We can do things like we know what the cost of attendance is. That is on our website. It's required, but we're happy to provide that information. And that is not just tuition, but if you are in a residential program that is average room and board and spending money, all those things. I'm not sure people buy a lot of books anymore, but supplies, things like that. And we know what we track very carefully, the average starting salaries for students from our undergrad program. And we're starting now to... more carefully track what someone's, if they're in one of our master's programs, what their salary is, when they started the program, and then what it is at the end of the program. And so we can quantitatively do some math and calculate a return on investment. But as you said, it is these really hard to quantify benefits that our students and then alumni receive, whether it is that desired promotion or the ability or the faith your manager has in giving you that stretch assignment that can, again, send your career on a much faster, maybe even a more exciting trajectory than you thought when you first started. It could be I've always wanted to live in this place and now I get to. It could be I've always wanted to make a career switch. I wanted to get into marketing from finance. Whatever the case may be, those benefits are probably much more valuable to people than just the money. MARK

SPEAKER_02:

MIRCHANDANI- I love that. And I think that with the process systems, systems always have to evolve and always have to change. And it seems like you have a very good handle of what's happening in the external environment. So outside of that, what are some of those other strategic pillars that you're kind of looking at when it comes to the College of Business? What do you think those strategic objectives would be?

SPEAKER_01:

MELANIE WARRICK- Sure. So we did update our strategic plan last year. And we made it simpler because we wanted to focus on fewer things so we could do them better. And the first pillar or priority is having every student should have a transformational learning experience. And it's probably easier to make the commercial on some of the undergrad experiences Every student in our Bachelor of Business Administration and our Bachelor of Sports Management degree programs has to go through integrated business cluster where we team teach. And that's very transformational. I just want to say that out there. We team teach four courses. Students take them together. They have a team that's persistent. And it's all built around industries and consulting. And so you see some pretty sweaty palms and anxious students who maybe are in a business suit and they're making their first ever big presentation. Of course, I think it's hilarious. I know the students don't feel the same way. Our faculty, they mentor, they coach. They may have to redirect. But students are learning not just what might be expected in the corporate world, but also how to make a really great presentation under pressure. They're learning teamwork. They're learning leadership. They're learning what it means to be a bit in the corporate world in a somewhat simulated way. And then I've heard students say, wow, I didn't realize once I survive integrated business cluster, the rest of the curriculum in the College of Business is just going to be smaller pieces of that. It's

SPEAKER_02:

just that on repeat. Well, I think I went through cluster. And for me, I'm very competitive. So with all my cluster groups, I'm like, we are going to win every deliverable. That is what we're going to do. We're going to have the highest score in the course. And we won seven out of eight times. And that time that we did not And I'm like, guys, we need to get together. So it allows high achievers to achieve because it's a different baseline. It is difficult. But at the same time, those skills that you pick up, and for me, it was the ability to ask for help. And I believe for me, it was Professor Lori Marquise. Is she still with the program? Okay, great. I didn't want to be like, hey, Lori. Now she's somewhere else. But at the same time, she would sit down with my cluster group. two nights a week, and she would dedicate to us time to help us build that mentorship thing. So by that experience, not only were we learning the practical experience, but we were learning the importance of mentorship and communication and bringing in external partners and having those conversations. It is hard, but it's priceless.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And it sounds like you had an amazing team. And I think most of the teams are pretty amazing. We do have situations because people that sometimes things aren't as great, but we tell students that this is the most valuable skill. Oh, yeah. You don't always get to pick your teammates when you're in your career. You may get stuck with, why is this person here? You may have to... figure out how do you navigate with maybe it's a family business and it's the boss's daughter or son and you're thinking oh the politics of all this but we want to coach students to handle those difficult situations as well

SPEAKER_03:

sure

SPEAKER_01:

and that's one of the reasons i feel that what we do here at ohio is so important and again that roi During COVID, it became very clear, but there's a lot of maybe ed tech, educational pundits who think higher ed is just watching a bunch of videos. I think anyone who had to help students at home navigate that experience through the pandemic can tell you no there's actually a big difference between just trying to watch and you maybe take an online little quiz or something but education is truly experiential yep and Here, that's where we focus and we think that's why our students do so well when they leave our programs, when they graduate from our programs. Whether it's our undergrad programs, whether it's our master's programs, the experiences may vary, but they're meant to be what's appropriate at that person's level of career development.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

You've really brought in one place I see that you've really invested is in career and professional development in that time since you've been here bringing in Dr. Mel Culp and Tracy Corrigan. Elizabeth Garino, you know, really, really strong people and teams to help our students develop through these processes, whether it's the worst experience or the, you know, or the best experience. It doesn't almost matter so much as they learn, they have the experience and they learn how to do it. And I think what's unique, right, with the College of Business is you get that in person, online, like you made sure that that's happening regardless of learning modality. And I think it's hard to do, but the college and the university does really well.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Most of us We go to college so that we can get the skills needed for a career that you need those skills for. So I remember a long time ago, being a very confused teenager, I just knew that I couldn't go into the military. I had asthma, they don't like that. And where I was, there weren't factory jobs, and I just knew that unless I wanted to work as a server at a restaurant, in some service role that was really limited. I was going to have to go to college, but it's important that just going to college isn't enough. You need that support system, that team around you to help you. What's this LinkedIn thing? I need a LinkedIn profile. How do I do a resume? How do I... Okay, interviews aren't natural for some people, so mock interviews. How do I prepare... Cover letters, thank you notes.

SPEAKER_02:

Networking.

SPEAKER_01:

Networking. Do I just collect business cards? What is this networking thing? Do I hug?

SPEAKER_02:

Do I handshake? Right? There's

SPEAKER_01:

levels. They give me food and... A beverage, how am I, yeah, it's hard. How much

SPEAKER_02:

do I drink if it's an open bar, right? But I mean, it's all those unspoken cues that you pick up through it. And one of the things I was most impressed with when I came back into the MSM program was the fact that there was the GradCat and the different experiential portions of it that help with that development. Was that by design when we were looking at the programming for everything?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. It was very clear, and I want to give credit to, she's now vice provost with the but Carrie Lehman, who with the team really conceived of GradCat. Our master, online master students are all over the United States. Career services still tends to be a little local. So we wanted to serve that student in Alaska just as well as we serve the student in Columbus. So they partnered with a outfit called Ride Smart that really helped people who had been laid off. or as part of like a severance package. Help them, okay Liz, dust up your resume. Let's talk about networking and all these things. And they saw an opportunity and we saw an opportunity to partner so that they could provide those local career services all over the country. And I thought this is brilliant because this has been a challenge with online education is serving all your students, regardless of where they're physically located. And this has been an amazing partnership. A

SPEAKER_02:

hundred percent. And I think even with the online programming too, the fact that you're bringing people from across the is amazing. I remember with one of my MSM courses, there was actually a person from Alaska. So that might be the same person we're thinking about, right? And his background and his story, what he was talking about, he's like, oh yeah, because of course, I'm like, Alaska, there's bears there, right? So it's the small things you pick up on, those conversations. It's not only a value for that person, but it really shows you the diversity in the programming, and it teaches you how to engage with individuals that you might have a shared background with.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and something we say, regardless if you finish our undergrad program, any of our master's programs, A grad certificate is Bobcats help Bobcats. And everyone lives this mantra. So you could probably send IM or email your student colleague or former alumni colleague now and say, hey, I'm looking this opportunity. It's in your neck in the woods or it's in your industry. Do you have any tips? Do you know anybody? And it works. Doesn't matter if they were in your cohort or not. You just see that Ohio University. And they're like, yeah, how can I help? And it's amazing. We see it every day.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think even with LinkedIn, if I get the invite and it's from someone from OU, it's an instant yes. I'm not going back and like, all right, well, what are you trying to sell me? If you're at OU, we're one and the same. So it's a big part of it. Do you have other questions you want to get into?

SPEAKER_00:

So it's phenomenal. I'm looking forward to it. I know you are so good. like meeting with all the different, you know, faculty, staff, just taking everyone as important. And I know you've been doing that more. What do you see, like, coming up? Like, what are you excited with our new president and just, I don't know, anything you're looking forward to as we head into fall?

SPEAKER_01:

Everyone is so focused on student success. You know, it's been great because sometimes I'll learn things about people I didn't know. Oh, I didn't realize we had a common bond about this. I spent an hour with a faculty on our Chillicothe campus yesterday. And we talked because of, it's about an hour and a half from Athens. So, you know, we have team calls and meetings. And I had no idea. I'm an adoptive mom. He's trying to adopt. to adopt a girl from his home country and talking about some of the commonalities but challenges that adopted parents and families and kids, of course, face. But at the end of it, it all came back around. He was so excited for the students to come back, helping students. And the students on our regional campuses, they're just as smart and they're just as talented and hardworking as our Athens Bobcats, but sometimes they have some different challenges. They may be being a caregiver for a family member. they need to stay close to home it could be that they're in a relationship and jobs and all these so they need to stay close but these students are amazing and how committed our faculty and staff wherever they are are to student success i mean it just makes me tear up a little i mean it's just so powerful and moving and just how you know people complain oh professors they They show up to teach and then they just go whatever they do. They're spending so much time with our students, both inside and outside of class, whether you're teaching in person, online. They are so committed to our students. That, to me, is the common thread, and it is amazing. MARK MIRCHANDANI-

SPEAKER_02:

And coming from a sister perspective, I've never experienced that at Ohio University. Even with professors that were like, this is a difficult professor, they still genuinely care.

SPEAKER_00:

And

SPEAKER_02:

that's the difference. MELANIE

SPEAKER_00:

WARRICK- Yes, absolutely. MARK MIRCHANDANI-

SPEAKER_02:

Do you want to say anything else before we close out?

SPEAKER_00:

MELANIE WARRICK- I just love this episode with our dean, Dr. Jackie Reese Ulmer, and hearing her breadth of being an expert in information systems and cybersecurity, and hearing her tear up talking about her faculty and how they're there for her students and the student and faculty experience. I think that's sort of the breadth of the College of Business and OU and we're just very fortunate to have her here leading us. So great episode. I'm Amy Taylor Bianco and I'm here with Nick Winnenberg. We're at the Leadership Lounge podcast by the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership. See you next time.