Ohio University Leader Lounge
The Leader Lounge podcast is for the curious and empowered leader, seasoned or novice, who is committed to being their best self and connect with other like-minded individuals as they strategically lead people, manage processes identify solutions and have fun. Our mission is in line with the Master of Science in Management program that allows students to combine unique technical specializations and learn management and leadership skills to propel them in their careers. The podcast currently interviews students, professors and industry leaders involved with the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership, College of Business Graduate Programs and OHIO University. The audience is current and prospective students and our goal is to build belonging and relationships between one another, alumni, faculty.
The Leader Lounge is brought to you by the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership | Ohio University
Ohio University Leader Lounge
Leader Lounge Features: Jill Nice and Andrew Pueschel
In this episode of the Leader Lounge podcast, host Amy Taylor-Bianco engages with guests Jill Nice and Andrew Pueschel from Ohio University. They share their personal journeys to the university, emphasizing the importance of community, mentorship, and the Bobcat spirit. The conversation highlights the Leadership Development Conference, a unique opportunity for online students to connect, network, and grow professionally. The guests discuss the significance of navigating career opportunities and the impact of their experiences on student success.
For more information about the Ohio University MSM Program, click this link!
Check out the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership program here.
OnBrand Podcast Studios produced this episode. Special thanks to Audio Engineer Alex Winnenberg, Producer Nick Winnenberg, and Marketing Specialist Cori Stokes.
To subscribe to our monthly newsletter, click here.
Welcome to the Leader Lounge podcast here at Ohio University's College of Business, and in particular today with Ohio University Business Graduate and Professional Programs. I'm your host, Amy Taylor Bianco, here with two-time Bobcat alum and serial entrepreneur, Nick Winnenberg. We have two amazing guests today who you may have heard of before, because they're quite known around these parts. So Jill Nice. Assistant Dean of Graduate and Professional Programs, all things everything, all things financial, all things she has her master's in public administration. If there's anything you want to know, Jill knows it. She might be kind and just not tell you right away. She'll let you figure it out, but she knows. And then we have Andrew Pischel, Professor in Marketing, Provost Faculty Fellow for Experiential Learning, Director of the Dance Team here, which is really cool. and director of CIBED, the Center for International Business and Education. So there are so many great things about these two. One fun fact that I kind of realized in putting this together is they're probably the two most promoted people in the College of Business going from role to role to role. They are driven, incredible people. If you want to learn how to do it, follow these two. And if you'd like to come to a leadership development conference, they are also the people to talk to. So let me just say good morning. Welcome. And how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_03:Awesome. Well, thanks so much for having us. And those kind words, you know, after a while, you know, you're here for, you know, you forget what you do and then you're reminded. And it's one of those things like Jill and I, we are a great partnership. We work on a lot of different things together and, you know, we're fast runners. You know, we do our power walk every week and, you know, we take time, you know, we do about a half a mile and, you know, we're solving the world's problems and making sure that we're ready for the next LDC. But, you know, it has been, like you said, you know, it's, It's a drive. And so we're really happy to be here today to talk about, you know, all things graduate programs, all things OU and, you know, go Bobcats.
SPEAKER_01:Great. First, I just want to get a little bit, we are going to talk a lot about the Leadership Development Conference, but I just want to get, and whoever wants to start, but just kind of what got you to Ohio University? Like, what do you, what got you here? And what do you, what are some of your favorite things about it? What do you love about being here?
SPEAKER_03:You've been here longer, Jill, so I'll let you go first.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. So I was thinking about this a little bit as you were talking, and I probably have an interesting story that I don't tell often enough in how I got to where I am today. But I started at Ohio University in 1998, and I came into the university. I was really just looking for... a job. I wasn't looking for a career in higher education. I was young. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. I had started college when I graduated high school, but I didn't finish my bachelor's degree at the time. I stopped out, got married, and thought I just needed to go to work and didn't need to worry about getting my education. But I started out at the university at the lowest classified position that we have here at the institution and was just really fortunate to come into the university with a team of people who were very focused on student experience and ensuring that we developed some of the very first online programs, online master's programs in the country. And I just was fortunate enough to come in and work with that team who really empowered me to do what I wanted to do and let me sort of just thrive. And I kind of just worked my way up over the years in the position that I was in. And they allowed me to do that. And I just kept getting more and more responsibility throughout that time. And then I came to the College of Business in 2012. And when I got here, I remember thinking to myself, I don't know how I was fortunate enough to get to where I am today, but I feel like I found what I was supposed to do in life. I've really been fortunate to work with a lot of great people over the years who let me be what I wanted to be and explore new things that I wanted to do. And I've just worked my way up over the years to where I am now serving as assistant dean and just really focused on the student experience in our online programs.
SPEAKER_01:It's one of the most amazing stories. Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_03:I've never heard that story. So I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's... So you are, Andrew, you're doing really, really well, I have to say. Jill is probably the most promoted person here. I don't know if there was a little score going. I know I'm teasing, but...
SPEAKER_02:I did leave out one thing. So when I came to the College of Business, the folks that I was working with at that time really encouraged me to finish my bachelor's degree because, like I mentioned, I had started my bachelor's degree and just hadn't finished, so... I was able to finish my bachelor's degree in 2015. And then I was thinking to myself, like, I'm helping all of these other students complete their master's degree and complete their goals and achieve their dreams. Why am I not doing this myself? So I went on a couple of years ago and did my online master's in public administration. And so really proud of all the work that I've done there. So I just wanted to mention that as well.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I was about to mention that for you because that's amazing. I think a lot of times, you know, we get so caught up in, you know, doing the task of our positions and taking the opportunities that we forget to think about, you know, what we need and, you know, what could benefit us moving forward. And so I'm so glad that you had the realization of that and took the time to practice what you preach, right? Yes, exactly. Absolutely. Thank
SPEAKER_01:you. I really appreciate, too, the story. We often get speakers like yourselves that are so accomplished, and it's really helpful to hear, like, how you got there. Because we all, at some point, are just trying to figure out what we want to do, or, you know, in school or out of school, and that combination. So I think it's really, really helpful to hear the whole experience. And Andrew, do you want to tell us a little bit about your experience?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. Well, I want to say that yesterday in my class, you know, we had the discussion that, you know, no person that's an expert in their field started off as the expert. You know, everyone starts off as being curious or everyone starts off, you know, that introductory level and, you know, your passions drive you to, you know, where you are going to go and where you are. So, you know, for anyone that is just starting out and they don't know what's next, you know, that's absolutely okay. And you can change your mind, you know, and really just focusing on your And my story is, a lot like Jill's. I came to Ohio University as the chief of staff for the alumni relations department. And this was something that I didn't think about in terms of doing my professional career. I had, I actually, let's, let's be really honest. I was actually a professional ballroom dancer for 15 years. And so this, you know, in, for me, this gave me the skills to transferable skills in terms of communication, creativity. I was running my own business. So I was able to manage those. I completed my master's. I was actually my bachelor's and master's from Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, where I was working in the events and marketing department. I was actually the president's events director. And so for six years, and then, you know, I started my creative career. I wanted to kind of flip things a little bit. So for 15 years of professional ballroom dancer, and I realized that I was getting older as many of us do, and things started to creak and things. Um, and my coaches and mentors, I talked to them about their future and none of them really had a plan. They didn't have, um, they didn't have the insurance and the benefits and the savings because the industry was very young. And so I decided to go and get my PhD. And I got my PhD in leadership and management. And after that, I didn't know what to do next. And networks are everything. And I've realized over the past eight years that nothing is stronger than the Bobcat network. And that's what brought me to Ohio University was the Bobcat network, but not because I was a Bobcat yet, but the woman Jennifer New who was the vice president of alumni relations here at Ohio at the time. We worked together at Carnegie Mellon. So it was part of my network, but it kind of extended both of them. And she brought me in as her chief of staff. But I knew I wanted to be faculty. And so the chair at the time, Gary Coombs, I had no idea what that meant. I scheduled a meeting with him and I said, you know, I would just love to know about what the culture is like to be faculty. And he was gracious. He sat down with me. I'll never forget it. He just had it was like going to Harry Potter. There's all these books everywhere. It was unbelievable. And at the end of the meeting, I just slid my. resume. It wasn't a CV then. It was a resume because I had no idea what I was doing. And I said, if there's a position open, please let me know. Well, within six months, there was instructional position open in management. And so right then I was at the right place at the right time at the right institution and absolutely blessed to have that opportunity came in. I'm one of those people that if you give me a goal and you tell me the steps to do it, I'm going to get through it and I'm going to get through it as fast as possible to reach that goal and And so for me, it was, you know, every step of the way, you know, through instructional faculty, what do I need to do to get promoted? I'd really like to become a tenure track, you know, a tenured professor. What do I need to do for that? So I got some certifications. I jumped through the hoops. I did everything I was supposed to do. Eventually, a position in marketing came open, which was great because it really aligned with my transferable skills as my professional career. So for me, that was a really great mix of the leadership and the marketing. And I applied for the job and I got the job transferred over to marketing. And then I've been in that position for three years now. And like Jill said, there's just opportunities. And I'm one of those people that if I see an opportunity and it's a best fit for me, then I'm going to go for it. If it's not, I'm not going to take it just to take it. But things like the Center for International Business, the director of the Ohio University dance team, provost faculty fellow for experiential learning, the chief experience officer at the LDC, these are things that are in my wheelhouse. There are things that I know I can do successfully and they're things I don't do alone. Every one of them has a team of people that we all work together to make it happen. And, you know, so when I look back, you know, even as I'm going through this in my mind, you know, the past eight years, the past 15, 20 years have been a series of very fortunate events that have been, you know, in my wheelhouse and I've been surrounded by friends to make it happen. So it's been an amazing ride so far.
SPEAKER_01:I hear the yes and the walking through doors. Like you're just, both of you are going to keep going. There's sort of nothing you can't do, you know, you're discerning about it, but you walk through the doors. You're like, okay, how can we do that? You know, how can we make that possible? And I would say that that's also a very bobcat, that kind of grit and determination, very bobcat focused. What's your... What are you experienced like? What's your definition of a
SPEAKER_03:Bobcat? you know our lives and those around us better and because at the end of the day bobcats always support bobcats and it's not just about that next job or the network but it really is about you know as a collective how can we move things forward and it happens with our students but also with our faculty and professional staff as well uh you know we wouldn't be here in this podcast you know the four of us if it wasn't for that sense of togetherness and the support and so you know we actually live what we say, which is kind of, well, it's very unique. So I'm really proud to be a part of that.
SPEAKER_02:And for me, just working with, just from my perspective, at least, working with all of the online master's students that I've worked with over the years and just seeing the determination that people have to make it through an online master's program while they're balancing work, family, kids, hobbies, life in general, and just the amount of students that are able to make it happen. And our faculty who are so supportive of all of our students and do everything that they can to make sure our students are successful. Like it's all about, like Andrew said, it's like Bobcats supporting Bobcats. It's like a big family. It
SPEAKER_01:really is. It really is. Nick, do you want to jump in before we
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Yeah. And I love, you're absolutely right. Again, I was a two-time Bobcat for the exact same reasons you said, right? So I decided I wanted to give Ohio University even more money and then realize that there's no place I would rather go to continue my education for the exact reasons you said. And I personally have hired Bobcats. And if you come to me with a resume that has Ohio University in it from some perspective, I know you're coming in with that grit. You both mentioned something that I think is interesting, and it's now a connecting theme between a lot of our different episodes. And that is, A, knowing what doors to walk through and knowing what opportunities you might want to pass on. And then also, B, that network. And Andrew, you said something before, too, about having that conversation with your mentors to go through and say, what do we need to do next? What's this look like? And having those people in your corner to help support you in that transition. So I just want to follow up on that because I how did you discern between what's a good opportunity and what opportunity that isn't a good opportunity? Because I'm sure there's been some opportunities that you've taken, obviously, the most promoted people in Omaha University, but also there's some opportunities you strayed away from. How did you discern which was a good versus bad
SPEAKER_03:opportunity? Thanks so much. I do want to say that there are many more people that are much more elevated than we are, you know, I think. So, you know, When it comes down to it, I think a couple of things happen. So thank you so much for, first of all, bridging the themes. I think we think that we live in these kind of silos that nothing is connected, but absolutely everything that we're doing when it comes to development and leadership, it's all connected. And when we talk about these doors, some doors you kind of knock at a little bit and you kind of see what's going to happen. And then sometimes you just open the door and run through. The opportunities are different. My personal story, I was actually diagnosed with adult ADHD about two years ago. And so for me, I've learned not to run through every door. Sometimes you take a little pause or whatever, ring the doorbell. But what I've learned through the years is that There's going to be so many opportunities. And you really have to think about, you know, once you take the opportunity, then what? That dopamine hit of getting the opportunity or the title or the bump in pay, it sounds great, but at what cost? And so I think when we think about all these amazing opportunities that are happening, you know, project on the future. If you took this, you always have to give up something. Nothing's free, right? So you have to give up something. But what will that... what impact will that have? And I'm saying this ironically, because do as I say, not as I do, but what impact is it going to have at people at home? What impact is it going to have for those that you work with as well? Because they're going to have to cover things. So I think having that holistic approach at the opportunity is really important before you accept it. And what I've also thought is, what's going to happen in terms of your future growth And also, perception versus reality. Once you take this, what are people's thoughts going to be based on your past experience? If you've been really successful and you take on another opportunity, then people are more apt to think, okay, well, they're going to crush it. They're going to be great at this. But if something's been a little bit rocky, your past has been rocky and it's more of a stretch goal for you, you might have a harder time convincing people that you're going to be successful. So really, for me, it's about taking that good look at yourself, pausing before you take that dopamine hit of the next opportunity and saying, is this the right thing for me right now in my career? Is it going to get me to where I want to go in the future five years down the road, not just over the next six months? And if you can answer that, then you walk through that door with confidence. But for me, that's what I've learned over the past five, 10 years.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think, yeah, you said that really well, Andrew. And also just thinking about not only what impact is it going to have on me and others around me, but what impact can I have on others? Like if I take on this opportunity, can I make an impact on more students or can I help the college in some way if I take on this additional role? I was recently, I will just share this little anecdote. story i was recently asked to step in and take a look at the operations of a relatively new online bachelor's of science and business studies that our college is offering it's a relatively new program and it's really um not been probably operating in the most efficient way. It's fine, but like there's probably some ways that we can improve it to make the student experience a better experience for our students in terms of just making sure the students have the classes that they need to register for and that there's enough seats for all the students across a different platform. So just what impact am I able to have on the students at the at our university, especially online students is really where my focus is, especially. We want our students who are in all of our online programs to feel as supported as possible. just looking at that kind of impact that we can have on a greater, a greater good. I
SPEAKER_01:love that example too, because I remember thinking Jill's got so much going on. She's so busy and all these things that I run into her and she's like, I'm so excited. I got this opportunity and to do more. But I could tell for you, it was the excitement of, you know, bringing more students in to have the best experience possible. And I think everything that each of you do is guided by the student experience. Like, will it be good for the student? How will it, how will it affect the student?
SPEAKER_03:So let's go ahead. I was going to say, you know, in addition to that, you know, when you think about all the opportunities, if you can find a way to make them kind of connect to each other, it just becomes more efficient and effective. Right. And so you're not in these silos. If you can bridge it, like you said, the theme of student success. Absolutely. Once you run that theme and then your strengths build off that, it becomes a lot easier to multitask and, you know, have multiple projects. multiple projects and programs.
SPEAKER_01:So you're talking a lot about the student learning experience and how it's all focused on the student. And then Jill, I heard you talk a lot about the online students that you're passionate about, the access and education. And Andrew, I know that you are too. It's something that we all have in common. So one of the amazing experiences that our online students get is to come to campus for really kind of a brief time, but a life changing time where they get to experience their their really love of this place, meeting each other. I don't know. Tell me maybe from the very beginning what it looks like. It's for online graduate programs and students can come to campus once or twice, but tell me how it goes, like how it starts from talking to students about it to, I don't know, what is it like?
SPEAKER_03:So real fast, thank you for, you know, bringing up the subject of the you know, our, the LDC, um, this is, and I'm going to speak for Jill as well. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, Jill, this is our, um, this is what we get most excited about. You know, we have the privilege of co-leading this event twice a year. And when it comes to like it, we never stopped working on it. Uh, you know, when, when, as April is finished up, as we're going through the event, we're thinking about the next theme, we start working on it the day after and we go all the way through. And it really is this passion project that I think we've been doing for seven years together. And it's something that we've bonded over. And I'm really excited the fact that we get to explain all about it today.
SPEAKER_01:Fantastic. So students know that this is a part of their curriculum, but then what happens? They get going in their online class Go ahead, Jill. Sure. I think.
SPEAKER_02:Just knowing that it's a requirement of the program, I think can sometimes students can sometimes look at that as, you know, oh, it's just something else I have to do to get through this master's program. But really just embracing the idea of coming to campus, seeing maybe seeing the university for the first time that you're a part of and just realizing what it means to be a Bobcat. I think we really try to We really try to hit that point home too while students are here on campus is like we bring in the dance team and the drum line to kick off the conference each time. So just making students aware of the Bobcat spirit, first of all, but leaning in and being open to making new connections while they're here, making sure that they're engaging with other students, networking. I mean, really, I think that's one of the biggest parts about the LDC is the opportunity to network with other students and even the faculty as well, as well as alumni of the programs. But just coming to campus, being open to learning and engage. Don't Be on your phone or be focused on work the whole time that you're here. Just be open and lean in to what the opportunity is that's in front of you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, as far as I know, I think we're one of the only graduate programs that gives you that online experience, but then also takes it to the next level and allows you to actually live the experience. And so when students can come to OU, they take a break from their lives back home. They come in for a 48-hour period. They're meeting their professors, which they've seen online. They're meeting, as Jill said, they're increasing their network. They're meeting those people in person and having those conversations. conversations. They're learning from our experts at Ohio University and our alumni as well. All of our programming is over 50% of alumni that have been successful in our programs and are coming back to give back to Ohio University and sharing their story. So one of the Thank you so much. Yes. How many times have you, we all go to conferences, but we kind of pick and choose what we want to go to. And when you come to the LDC, we are all in, we're in together. We have breakout sessions and networking sessions. So you can meet those that are in your program. And then we have our, you know, brainstorming sessions and we have large events where we have, we celebrate the graduates that are graduating that semester. So it really is just this type of time to, you know, think about who you are, take a break, where do you want to be, and then celebrate those that are, you know, going out and using their education to impact others. It's a great experience.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's just absolutely incredible to see the students come in and maybe not sure of who they know, and then start seeing one another and being like, oh, wait a minute, I had a class with you. I had a class. And it seems like it's almost like a, um, like a positive contagion, you know, like where you just, it keeps growing and growing and people might come in thinking they don't know many people or they're not that social, but you guys take care of that. You've got all kinds of activities to get people to know each other, which I think would be fun to talk about. And then you have some wellness breaks in there too.
SPEAKER_03:You know, absolutely. So, you know, it is, it is an experience. And so we need to make sure that, you know, Jill and I are, We're there to manage the process. So if you need anything, we're there to help you. From bus transportation to making sure that everyone's dietary needs are met, everything has been, I want to say, scientifically designed because it really is Every time we have the event, we're thinking about what could be done better. We have GradCat, which is going to help you with that career exploration. They sponsor our wellness breaks. And we know that the research says for every 50 minutes of work that you should be doing, you need to take that 10 minutes to relax and recharge. And so we provide those opportunities throughout. We want to make sure that everyone is experiencing at the highest level because that way they can intake that information and then use it later. We don't want you to be exhausted. We want you to be energized, you know, throughout that experience. So Jill and I have done everything we possibly can to make it the most exciting, but yet, you know, invigorating experience for everyone that's attending.
SPEAKER_00:From a student perspective, you don't mind if I jump in here too, but from a student perspective, the I already knew it was going to be good because it's Ohio University and everything we do is awesome. But at the same time, I was kind of in that Jill mindset when she's like, ah, like, do I really need to go do this? I've been there before. But the amount of energy, the amount of connection that I got by being there, it felt like I was an undergrad walking on campus the first time. So the amount of spirit that was involved with that, it was contagious to use Dr. B's word, but it was also a differentiator. Right. I would not be surprised if you see people that are going to visit campus for a certificate or the graduate program. They're like, oh, that was really fun. Now I want to go back to OU. I'm going to talk to my kids about OU or I'm going to consider another certificate because you do get that that vibe. So not only is it great from the academic perspective, but just from the culture of the community that's built there. It's nothing like it. So I appreciate all the work that you do to put that out. It's an amazing event.
SPEAKER_03:Well, thanks so much. I mean, it really is about the student experience. That's exactly why we do it. You can come in and take a tour of campus with our tour guides at the beginning. Our faculty are there to mix and mingle throughout. Like I said, we bring back alumni. Some people come back two or three. Maybe, Nick, I heard you've done it four times now, I think. So it is one of those things that There's traditions that happen at it, but it's going to be new every time. And it's, you know, so you can come back and repeat and you're going to get something out of it. You're going to get something different. Everyone is always in different stages of life. We have, you know, some people that are in their master's programs that have just graduated from their undergraduate. Some people have 20 years plus experience. And when you get everyone in a room together, like magic happens. You don't like the network is one thing. But then thinking about the needs of different organizations and people of different experiences and what they what value adds. They can bring just at the table in which you eat lunch, you know, and you're there for, you know, you're there eating your lunch for the hour and the intake that you can have and what you can learn from people, you know, dare I say might even exceed what we're providing in terms of programming because that's really what it's all about. And so, you know, Jill has done an amazing job, you know, of getting people there. You know, if anyone has any questions, you go to Jill, she's going to solve it right away. Even before you walk in the door, we're going to make sure that everything is taken care of from your hotel. You know, like I said, any kind of dietary needs that you have mobility needs. And then once you're there, the service doesn't stop. We make sure we are there available to you. You can see us registrations right there. We're there 24 seven to make sure that your needs are met. And then after you, It doesn't stop there because, you know, we're part of your career development. We're part of your student experience for the rest of the time. Right. You know, once a Bobcat, always a Bobcat. And we're here to we're here to help.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's a great way to kind of finish up too. So the after part, the after part is incredible. People are changed by this experience. They are really positively impacted and changed. The last LDC I remembered at our table, we had people from 22 to 66 years old and they figured that out. I did not, but figured that out. And we're really proud of this kind of cross-generational dynamic where they got to experience things. And some people had done a lot of hiring and other people we're looking to be hired and you know all those different kinds of things so you create this community that then keeps going and going and going um so any final words that you want to want to throw out to um people as they uh get ready to attend the next ldc i think just
SPEAKER_02:i mean i'll just reiterate what i said earlier just being open to um you know knowing that it's going to be a great experience if you embrace it and allow it to be it'll it'll absolutely be um a game changer I think, for you. And the feedback that we have received in the past, like Andrew said, we're always looking to improve what we do. So we're always looking at the feedback that we get from students every time to see what we can do better. But we've had students tell us that it's one of the most... high quality professional academic or professional conferences, leadership conferences that they've ever attended. So we really do put a lot into it and hope that it makes a great experience for students that are in all of our programs.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. And, you know, Nick, I want to go back to you, what you and Amy were talking about in terms of opportunities. You know, like I said, I look at everything as an opportunity. And the Leadership Development Conference is one of those opportunities that, you know, that Everyone needs to make sure they come in and just get the most out of it they can. When I think about applying, if I'm going to apply for a job or whatever is next, thinking about the Leadership Development Conference as one of those bullet points in your resume where you can talk about having that experiential learning where it's networking, it's professional development, it's growth opportunities, and showing that you're able to take The knowledge that you learn and build those into transferable skills that will then help you provide value add to the organization in which you're going to go and serve. This is the Leadership Development Conference is one of those places where you can get all that in in 48 hours. And like Jill said, it is life changing and we provide everything to you. We're just so excited for people to come in and take what they need out of it. And it's different for everyone. And so I'm excited to see everyone at the next Leadership Development Conference.
SPEAKER_01:Andrew Pischel, Jill Nice, thank you so much for all the work that you do to create the incredible Leadership Development Conference. And thank you for talking to us about your story, your Bobcat story of how you got here and what you've enjoyed along the way, mentors and so forth that have been a part of your journey. So thank you for being guests on the Leader Lounge. And we also want to thank the Robert D. Walter Center for Strategic Leadership and Graduate Business and Professional Programs here at the College of Business. Thank you for listening, everyone, and hope this helps you on your journey.