Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts

Certified Wood is Better Wood: Annie Perkins of SFI (Sustainable Forestry Initiative) | #6

• Brady Potts • Season 1 • Episode 6

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What if we told you there's a way to build greener, cleaner structures while empowering the foresters who supply our wood?

Take a peek into the world of sustainable forests with Annie Perkins, senior director of green buildings, supply chain, with SFI  (Sustainable Forestry Initiative).  Annie enlightens us on a critical component of sustainable building – certified wood, and she takes us on a journey of understanding the role of certified wood in sustainable building and forest management. 

We touch on the importance of personal research and firsthand information when making decisions. Annie sheds light on the complexities of Environmental Product Declarations (EPDs) and the commendable efforts of the US Green Building Council's LEED program in advocating for more environmentally friendly buildings. We examine the differences and similarities between Annie's organization, SFI, and others with similar objectives. She  shares her experiences working with SFI and how we can propel movement towards sustainable forestry and equitable development.

 Annie provides insights on the importance of embodied carbon of building materials and the key role mass timber plays. We highlight how wood isn't just a healthier building material, but it also fosters a connection between humans, their natural environment and communities. Join us on this journey and learn how to build a greener future, one building at a time.

Connect with Annie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-perkins-leed-green-associate-652b2710/

Learn more about SFI: https://forests.org/

Looking for your mass timber community? Attend the 2025 Mass Timber Group Summit in Denver Co - Aug 20-22nd!

Speaker 1:

I want you to picture yourself where you feel the happiest, where you feel the most fulfilled, happiest, whatever in life. You picture that place Now, open your eyes. If you picture yourself outside, raise your hand. Everybody raise their hand, meaning we all love to be connected to nature and so we really have to and that's the point of the books and the point of what we do at SFI is really understand the importance of our natural environment and respect it and use it in the best way in our built environment as well.

Speaker 2:

This is the Mass Timber Group Show. I'm Nick.

Speaker 3:

And I'm Brady and we talk with sustainable building experts. Today's episode was absolutely incredible. In it we caught up with Annie Perkins. Annie is the senior director of green buildings and supply chain and sustainable forestry initiative. Annie has a wealth of knowledge and experience in the sustainable building movement. In fact, she was involved in some of the first sustainable building initiatives in the built environment through her work developing the window industries first Environmental Product Declaration or EPD. She's a lead green associate through the US Green Building Council and has served on numerous boards, including the Minnesota arm of the US Green Building Council. She's on the middle St Croix Watershed Board and is a council member for the city of Afton, minnesota.

Speaker 2:

We talk about what it takes to be a sustainably managed forest and how to become SFI certified. There was a cool story about the late Ray Anderson, who was a pioneer of corporate sustainability and through his books he inspired her to get involved in the sustainability industry.

Speaker 3:

But before we jump in, if you love listening to sustainable building experts share their story and wisdom, please hit that subscribe button and with that let's get into it. Annie, thanks for being here with us. We're very excited to talk to you about your career path, how you got there and what certified forest means for the rest of the sustainable building supply chain. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what SFI does and how you came into the position that you're in now?

Speaker 1:

Sure, that's a lot, so a little bit about me. I head up the green building supply chain at SFI, sustainable Forestry Initiative, where I work a lot with the AEC community, architects, engineers and construction folks to help educate them on the importance of specifying and using certified wood within their buildings and supply chain. And how I came to SFI. I've been here about almost five years and I spent about 15 years working in sustainability in the built environment for a very large wood core window manufacturer in North America and so I wrote corporate sustainability reports, developed the first product category rule to then publish the first EPD, which is an environmental product declaration. All related to LCA work. Akron and Manny used to be a tagline a lot of acronyms in that space, but really working on product transparency and helping to green up the supply chain in the built environment.

Speaker 2:

So why is it important to use certified wood?

Speaker 1:

Why is it important to use certified wood? At the end of the day, whether you're the building owner or you're the person that is occupying the building, you want to be rest assured that the wood around you and the wood that you've used has come from a responsibly managed forest, and the only way that we can be certain that's the case is by third party independent certification systems. We do not, however, provide the third party certification. That's it done with an independent third party auditor many of them out there, yeah yeah. So that's an independent process. So we can't audit our own standard. So we provide the standard. We provide all the requirements that are needed to ensure a responsibly managed forest and chain of custody throughout the supply chain, and then a third party independent certification auditor would conduct the audit every year to help maintain that certification.

Speaker 2:

When you talk about a sustainably managed forest, what is that to a person who just simply doesn't know? And I feel like that there's a lot of people out there that think that there's just incredible amounts of clear cutting happening with no regulation, and it's just kind of a free for all. What does that look like? A sustainably managed?

Speaker 1:

forest. That's part of what we do, too in our educational arm is to help educate folks on what it looks like and what it entails. The broader community understands what it means and all of that and the value that sustainably managed forest provide. But sustainably managed forests have a plethora of different requirements. The standard would ensure positive outcomes that we're looking for. So whether we're talking about clean water, biodiversity, habitat for critters, species, we want to ensure that we're managing those forests for the outcomes that we are looking for, and a standard such as the SFI forest management standard helps to provide those guidelines and requirements that forest landowners choose to apply on their lands. So what does it look like?

Speaker 1:

In North America, we actually have pretty strong forestry regulations as a baseline, and then certification goes above and beyond that. For example, sfi certification goes above and beyond the existing regulations because we have things in place that specify managed forest. Look at climate smart forestry, for example, or fire resiliency and awareness and education, also doing things to help advance green career pathways and advance equity within the forestry sector, which helps not just the forestry sector but also everybody related to it, which is everybody, so everybody's related to forests, and so we're really helping to advance equitable career pathways as well within forestry sector.

Speaker 3:

You talked a lot about managing for those different outcomes in the forest, and that's SFI helps set those guidelines and standards. There are other organizations that have similar missions. How is SFI different from like FSC?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's really, I like to say there's two differences between SFI and two big differences between SFI and FSC. First, maybe I'll just lay out the similarities. We're all working to advance sustainability when it comes to forest management. We have that same goal and really one thing to keep in mind is there's only about 11% of the world's forests have any certification at all. So it's really important we look at where there are gaps and who, what forest and what areas maybe should have some certification that don't already. So we're very similar.

Speaker 1:

Fsc has a number of different forest management standards across the globe, so they work in many different areas, some higher risk than others. Sfi has one forest management standard that's applicable in the US and Canada, and so the application area for the forest management standard or standards vary. And then, in addition to that, sfi, so both of the organizations do forest management standards in chain of custody. In addition to that, sfi also does work in conservation, impact, as well as community engagement and environmental education through project learning trees. So we've really expanded our work within SFI. Everything that we do stems from our forest management standards, but we've really expanded what we do to really offer a full suite of solutions to address a multitude of challenges that face us globally.

Speaker 2:

So how does a forest become SFI standard or certified?

Speaker 1:

So a landowner would choose to apply, that choose to voluntarily place the SFI standard on their forest lands, and so what they would do is apply online to go through the process, and then they would document processes in place and then get an audit done by an independent auditor and become certified. All the steps are outlined on our website, forestorg. For folks that might be interested in obtaining a certification or chain of custody too, for example a manufacturer or product manufacturer, they can go online and find out how to become certified as well.

Speaker 2:

I'm imagining that most of the I don't know if it would be a client or a customer of yours, but would it be sawmills? So the people that have private ownership of land and forest, or is there anybody else that would get SFI certified?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So there's a couple of different folks who might choose to get SFI certification and we have a couple of different standards to align with their needs. We have three main standards. One is the forest management standard and that would be applicable to landowners. So landowners would get the forest management standard. Mills would most likely get fiber sourcing certified to ensure that all the fiber they bring into their mill is coming from responsibly managed forests. And then chain of custody is for everybody along the supply chain who may work on that fiber or make a product, whether it's paper packaging or whether it's CLT or glulam. Anybody who touches that product and does work to it, maybe adds value in somewhere or another, would want to also have chain of custody certification so that then at the end of that product's development and it goes into the building, then it can be certified chain of custody everybody along the supply chain to help provide those assurances that we're looking for at the end.

Speaker 3:

So we obviously work in the built environment. So we're talking about buildings and it and going from standing timber to the building. There's only like a couple of steps in between. But if somebody's in like the consumer end of thing, like you mentioned, paper or packaging how does the end consumer walking down the aisle know that wood product came from a certified, sustainably managed forest?

Speaker 1:

Great question, brady, and that's where that third party independent auditor comes into play. They'll audit that and then that product manufacturer, like, for example, toilet paper. When I buy my toilet paper target, I look at the back of the packaging and I want to make sure that I see the SFI certification label on there, or PFC or what have you, so that I know and, quite frankly, even if it's like, for example, food I have a couple of certifications that I know I can trust and seafood, I want to make sure that that's coming from a responsibly sourced way avenue as well. One of the things, too, is you can get locked up as a consumer, because there are so many choices out there and most consumers want to do the right thing. So those third party certifications really help people make better decisions and it helps them push the easy button to say I'm busy, I'm shopping, I want to make the best decision, whether it's for my building or whether it's the food I buy or the packaging, and third party certifications help provide that ease for customers.

Speaker 2:

I know there's a couple of examples out there of large scale mass timber buildings like the Portland International Airport. I'm just looking up now. They use 2.6 million board feet of glu-lam beams. I want to say that it's nine acres of mass timber is the overall usage. What other projects that might be more common to mind that are SFI certified?

Speaker 1:

That's the Portland Airports really had profiled, nice, cool looking project. And one of the neat things about that is it does come from local supply chain. So a lot of that wood that is in the PDX Portland Airport comes from the Yakama Nation Forest land which is SFI certified. So that comes from SFI certified lands and indigenous lands as well and that's very cool to highlight the good work that's done on those lands at Yakama Nation Forest. And then there are a lot of other cool projects. For example, there's that COB3 building in California. It's a county office building I think that's what it stands for county office building number three, cob3. And that will be a lead platinum building using SFI certified wood and mass timber from Smart Lam. And so that's pretty exciting to see that wrapping up here pretty soon.

Speaker 1:

Got some things in the works in Georgia Ponzi building town folks are doing some really cool things. There's more to come on that at our conference, annual conference next year in Atlanta and also like, for instance, in Idaho, the University of Idaho's arena. That all comes from a lot of local wood. Also a lot of it's SFI certified. So there's some really cool stories there. Folks are understanding the importance of sourcing responsibly, sustainably and also local, whether it's your state or your region. Certainly, the continent is ideal, but yeah, there's a lot of cool projects coming.

Speaker 3:

And you've been working in the built environment for quite a long time, and well before that you were involved with SFI, and a lot of people look at the emergence of timber companies, logging companies, home builders and that kind of like green sustainable movement as something that's more recently developed. How did you first get into that sustainability arc and then what drew you to SFI?

Speaker 1:

That's a great question. So it's a journey you can start. Way back in college, everyone asks you what do you want to do? I knew I wanted to make a difference in the world. I know it sounds crazy, it sounds pretty lofty, so I didn't know what that was. But I knew that probably that would require working with big organizations because they have such a big footprint, and but the deal is that 20 plus years ago sustainability was just a new thing within the corporate America.

Speaker 1:

The way I got involved was just following my passion. I knew I wanted to do better things for the environment, but I wanted to use corporate America and business as an avenue to do that, because certainly we need economic, economic what's the word? Thriving. We need an economy that's thriving, but at the same time, we need a healthy environment that's thriving, and so how can those two things work in tandem and together and complement one another? And there's a lot of opportunity there. There's a lot of negative impact, which means that there's a lot of positive opportunity to be had.

Speaker 1:

So I just really followed my passion and back when I got going, there was no sustainability jobs per se, but they were coming on online. So I just did what really interests me and followed that passion, whether it was product transparency and I did work along those lines and really helped make my path. So it didn't exist at the time and I really forged it and made each job that I had and that also gave me experience that I had that was right for this particular job and working in sustainability, product transparency and then within the built environment too. So that kind of put me well for what I'm doing now.

Speaker 2:

Does anything come to mind that you are a part of? So you're trying to change the world, and completely noble, and I totally agree. I think that we can all be ethically and sustainably conscious and build better if you will. So is there anything that comes to mind that a project that you were a part of that really made you feel good?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so one of the first things I did was back when I was working at the window manufacturer was a liaison for our first LCA Life Cycle Assessment. So we hired some consultants, we did the LCA I'm not a technical person so as the liaison was able to help coordinate that stuff and pass information between the entities, and then from that experience we were then able to, like I said, I sat on the development of North America's first product category rule for the window industry, which is a PCR, and a PCR is needed in order for companies to publish EPDs Environmental Product Decorations and so there was no PCR for the window industry. So I sat on the development of that first one and then subsequently published the very first, along with my organization published the first EPD for a window Environmental Product Declaration. And at the same time I was wrapping up grad school and I was doing projects related to EPDs and labeling. And what does that all mean?

Speaker 1:

And I remember at the time it was about I don't know, probably 20 years ago or so, maybe not quite and Europe at the time said within five years, every product on our shelf is going to have to have an EPD. And that was a great idea, maybe, but didn't realize what it takes to do that. So it's more complex than they thought. So we all have great ideas at times, but then we come to realize that maybe they're hard to achieve. But that's all right. We keep plugging along and try to improve as we go. But that was pretty instrumental early on.

Speaker 2:

Nice, well done.

Speaker 3:

All the different organizations out there that are doing similar missions and with you talked about building your own position into all the companies that you've worked in. Why SFI?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, interesting. So I was familiar with Wood Certifications. We were a Wood Corp window product and we I knew a lot about FSC. I didn't know as much about SFI and I wanted to learn more about it because I figured they were doing a good work and I wanted to learn more. So I was digging and looking and did a lot of research and then I saw some of their folks present at a window door manufacturers association technical conference many years ago and I was very impressed with what they had to say.

Speaker 1:

And so it just goes to show how getting firsthand information and doing your own research helps to give me personally the information that I need to make good decisions and advance the work and mission that is important to me.

Speaker 1:

So I just knew they were doing great work and at the time they needed someone to work specifically on in the building environment, since that timber was growing and it was very important for them to be in that space. So it worked out really well. So I was drawn to that and I did a lot of work with, and still do with, the US Green Building Council lead accredited, and I'm just outgoing chair for the board here in Minnesota where I reside. So I've been on that with my previous organization as well as still continue to do that Now. We're SFIs, big supporters of USGPC, and we're Green Build every year. It's funny because a lot of the conferences that I used to go to in my other job I still go to now, and so it's fun to carry that torch forward and continue that work, and still in a very meaningful way. So it's fun.

Speaker 3:

Can you give us a very high 10,000 foot overview of what LEED is? We mentioned the COB3 building shooting for that LEED plan, that certification. Can you give us a little breakdown on that?

Speaker 1:

Sure. So LEED stands for leadership in energy and environmental design and so it's been around for gosh I don't know how many years, but it's overseen by the US Green Building Council and really it helps to advance buildings, to make them more sustainable. So they started out focusing on the operational energy, so make the building envelope more energy efficient and reducing the impact or the needs for the HVAC system and maybe looking at the water usage and the site situation and all of those things. So really focusing on operational energy. And not too terribly long ago, we're all realizing, okay, that's great, we can make super high efficient buildings and operating systems within them, but what about the materials in the buildings? And what kind of energy does it take to get those materials all the way to this building site? And oh, by the way, how much energy does it require to mine the materials that are in that concrete or that are in that steel or glass or whatever? So we really the industry started looking at upstream to say, gosh, you know what? That's part of the footprint as well. So the embodied carbon what does that look like? So now LEED also has and is continuing to look at embodied carbon, and that's obviously one of the benefits of mass timber is not only does it take less energy to extract, ie harvest, the materials from where they're growing, but they sequester carbon when trees grow and then that carbon is stored in that tree for the life of that log or piece of wood or CLT or glulam. There's many different, many ways that it saves energy and then helps to contribute to points within LEED. For that LEED's working on their next version five, so it'll be interesting to see the advancements that they make to that too. They've also advanced to look at things that are important to SFI as well and should be to all corporations, regarding social equity and environmental justice and that kind of thing.

Speaker 1:

We can't just look at sustainable buildings as operationally sustainable. How are they interacting with our communities, the people that are in them? Because ultimately, a building is there for people and that's the main point is that buildings are there for the people and the communities, and in the past I feel like our buildings have more separated us from our natural environment and from our communities, and now I think at least the advancing forefront folks on the forefront are understanding the importance to connect and use our buildings and the building materials within them to help us connect with nature, break down those barriers, help connect with one another and our communities. So, really, wood is a fabulous way to do that for a multitude of reasons. Not only is it a healthier building material for us to live in and work in and all of the research shows how quicker healing days within hospitals and more productive office space productivity and our blood pressure decreases and our need for medication decreases when we're in wood buildings but then when it comes from a sustainably managed forest and one that's a certified sustainably managed forest we also know things like water quality and habitat for critters and community engagement. All of those things are also being addressed when we're properly managing that forest and harvesting that wood. So it's just so many, so many positive solutions that come from that. So it's fun Sorry, I get excited and then I get on a roll, and it's just fun.

Speaker 3:

That was a beautiful answer. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you and speaking about connecting to forest and carbon sequestration and connecting to your job. I was looking at your website and it's hard to wrap your mind around these types of numbers but it's set. A recent completed study of SFI certified forest lands in the United States indicated that SFI certified forests sequester more than 20 billion tons billion with a B of carbon and capture about 235 million tons of carbon each year, and which just it's an incredible amount of. It's the only sustainable way of construction mass timber and so kind of to round about and bring this question into your job and kind of connecting with your job and then other people that are trying to get into the industry, can you share? Like any way?

Speaker 2:

It sounds like you're very passionate, you love your job because it also gives back to the environment. It's just a real full circle. But if anybody trying to get into your industry, did you do anything that maybe got to you where you are? I know you talked about being on a board. Me and Brady kind of serve on boards and it's really helped open up a lot of doors. But is there any advice that you can share to get people that want to get into your industry?

Speaker 1:

Sure, it's actually really easy piece of advice Show up, be there, grab a seat, pull it to the table and be there. That sounds simple, but really just showing up is half of getting to to what your goal is. And then you start learning and listening and participating. And then, next thing, you know, people know that you're the one that show up and so if you show up they can rely on you and then you learn things and then you maybe have information that folks want to know and that you're happy to share. So it's not that hard, especially in this industry, because it's so young here in North America that there's so much opportunity. So if you're interested in it, there's a lot of opportunity. But just show up and just be a part of it.

Speaker 3:

Nice, and once people are in the industry, in the built environment or in a sustainability arc some way working in this ecosystem that we've already talked about, what are some of the markers for success that you found to be helpful and that you look for in others?

Speaker 1:

Markers for success within this industry and sustainability more broadly. Early on I used to hear this in corporate America, and it is true for our sustainable buildings, or it's true for trying to stay fit or whatever. But you cannot manage what you don't measure. You need data. You need data and you need to get a baseline. When you're trying to measure success, you can't do that unless you have a baseline, so you have to figure out what your baseline is and then you measure your performance moving forward and then you can see if you're making improvements or not. That's as simple as that goes.

Speaker 1:

Measurements of success have to really be based on data, and one of the other big differences of SFI and some of the other certification entities is that SFI is the only one that requires certified landowners invest in forest research.

Speaker 1:

So we have I don't have the stats in front of me because I didn't prep for that but a ton of money has gone into forest research, whether it's fishing, wildlife, or whether it's habitat or water quality or carbon benefits, but a ton of money has gone into research specific to those outcomes, and not just that, but also a multitude of partnerships. Sfi's mission is to advance sustainability to forest focused collaborations. We're all about collaborations and partnerships and really there's so many good things about that because, you know, the challenge is that face us. No one can solve alone, so it takes all of us together and the more diverse the partners, the better outcomes we're going to have. I'm really proud of the partnerships and all of the projects and the data scientific data that we have been able to obtain and continue to get through our partnerships and all of our research projects that stem from forest research, and then we take that data and all of those, all that scientific data, and then we help to develop the next iteration of our forest management standards that's rooted in science.

Speaker 3:

So, with all those projects and all the people that you're working with, what's next for you? What's next for Annie? What do you look into accomplish?

Speaker 1:

Just keep on, keep on on. It's just just there's a lot out there and there's.

Speaker 1:

I feel like I talk a lot of times, I feel like I repeat myself, but the audience is quite large so it's hard. The microphone doesn't get to everybody one time, so you just have to keep going and get new audiences, bring in new people into the fold, whether it's the work that we're doing at USGBC, here at our Minnesota board, or whether it's the work we do at SFI, really working to advance equitable development, sustainable development with that lens of equity, that's super key and important. A lot of the work that my colleagues do within SFI it's just. It inspires and impresses me every day. For instance, we've got the team that's working to advance community community engagement and forestry, equitable forestry within the sector through green career pathways it's just amazing and through our urban sustainability urban urban standard community standard really works to look at human health and community community well-being at the forefront of that standard.

Speaker 1:

The forestry sector only has 3% black and brown people in the forestry sector and that's a travesty. That needs to be improved substantially. Not only is that a disservice to the people who are not included, it's a disservice to the forestry sector and it's a disservice to our whole community as a whole when you don't have everybody, all of the diverse experiences and diverse perspectives contributing to a solution, your solution is not going to be very solid. So we need to increase those numbers and that's why I'm super proud of this new guide, journey guide that has recently been published within collaboration SFI, collaboration with Manners, which stands for minorities in agriculture, natural resources and related sciences, and it's black faces and green spaces one of a kind guide to help inspire the younger generation to see themselves in the forestry sector. It highlights 22 natural resource professionals, black professionals, and their stories and their journeys so that younger students, younger youth, can see themselves and what they can possibly do.

Speaker 1:

Because if I didn't see anybody that looked like me doing what I did, I'd probably thought I couldn't do it, and so we need to have those inspirational stories and guides to help everybody see what they can do and help foster the growth that everybody wants to have an opportunity to do. It's just really good to help see that work and I know USGBC is working as well to advance equitable solutions and really I think a lot of the COVID times also came with some highlighted, very disturbing open the curtains to some cultural issues that are unfortunately still in front of us today and we need to address that for real. And a lot of the educational guides that we work with partners help to address that and I'm proud of that and so continuing to advance that and continuing to share that story. I didn't develop it, I don't have all that information, but I can help share that information.

Speaker 3:

So Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

That's cool to hear. Is there anything else that comes to mind for? Maybe books, shows, podcasts or papers that opened your eyes into any sustainability and kind of anything in general, and just maybe something? Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I followed some feeds but I think the most pivotal again about 20 years or more ago, the Ecology of Commerce by Paul Hawken and the story Ray Anderson's story. It's not a forestry related story, however. It's the story that I heard early on in my career that helped me know that I was on the right career pathway as far as sustainability in corporate America. And now, just side note, but now in my current job working in supply chains, I'm exactly working with corporate America to help them reduce their negative impact through their supply chains. But anyway, the Ecology of Commerce by Paul Hawken and the natural capitalism and he's written some other ones, but it was a pivotal point and Ray Anderson was the founder and, I think, ceo of Interface Carpet and at the time it was one of the most polluted industries the carpet industry and somebody gave him this book, he read it, he had an epiphany and he turned it around and they were really the leaders in kind of corporate sustainability and goals and that kind of thing. And reading that really inspired me to help make the changes that needed to be made and still need to be made within, I'll say, corporate America, but all across the board and we're all part of that and our ways need to change and improve, and it can be done. So we just all need to put our heads together and work towards the right ways. So if you pick up that book, it'll talk about the negative impacts of some corporate players, but it also helps to talk about solutions, and it's not just doom and gloom. It's okay here we can also have a better way to do it.

Speaker 1:

So basically, in short, what it does is not just that book, but natural capitalism as well. It highlights the importance that nature provides to us so we take from nature to make the things that we make in our everyday life. We can no longer, we can't just take. That doesn't work. So later it's going to be gone and nature will recover, but we won't share so well. What it teaches us is that, like biomimicry, biophilia, designing based off of nature Velco was designed based off of something in nature and airplanes and anyway, it's like working together with nature. And that's where mass timber gets us even closer and sustainably managed forest gets us closer, because we're now understanding the value that nature provides us in our human world and we are placing that appropriate value on it and giving it the respect that it needs and hopefully not just taking, but doing it in a more sustainable way and placing the proper value on nature, because it needs to be on P&L sheets too. By the way, our footprint on nature needs to be calculated within profit loss statements, but that's for another podcast.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. I'm very glad that you brought up Ray Anderson. We interviewed Chuck LaVell a couple of weeks ago and I'm reading his book right here, growing a Better America, and I have tabbed a part right here where he talks about Ray and he says talking about the environmental ethics standards, and it said, if it can be said that there's a leader in this movement, it would be a man by the name of Ray Anderson. It goes in there to talk a lot about it, but it's very interesting and encouraging to hear the same source of inspiration pull forward across the industry.

Speaker 1:

Any time I get my name in the same sentence as Chuck LaVell, it's a good day. And then I will say Ray Anderson unfortunately did pass away in 2011, I think but I was thrilled that I got to see him speak and I'm just going to share a little something. When I saw him speak, he had the audience, big auditorium, and he was speaking about this work. He's won a lot of accolades and awards for his work in sustainability, but he had the whole audience close their eyes and I said, ok, everybody, close their eyes Now.

Speaker 1:

I want you to picture yourself where you feel the happiest, where you feel the most fulfilled, happiest, whatever in life. You picture that place. Okay, Now, open your eyes. Okay Now, if you picture yourself outside, raise your hand. Everybody raise their hand, meaning we all love to be connected to nature, and so we really have to and that's the point of the books and the point of what we do at SFI is really understand the importance of our natural environment and respect it and use it in the best way in our built environment as well, and we can do that.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely so. You may have already touched on it, talking with all of these great inspiring figures that we've talked about, but we like to specifically ask who inspires you and your industry to help those people that are listening reach out for those sources of inspiration.

Speaker 1:

First of all, my sustainability related circle here in the Midwest is awesome. The USGBC folks, the folks working at many corporate 500 headquarters are here in the Twin Cities area and they're all doing great work. But every day I think I mentioned it before but honestly the people that I work with at SFI inspire me every single day Paul, jerry, lydia, all everybody that really works to advance green career pathways and more equitable community forest and community related forestry work is an indigenous relations Paul Roboty and his team working to really get, improve and advance the connections that every all of us have with our indigenous friends and people and neighbors. It's just really reaching out to advance equity in areas that have been lacking for so long and I'm just proud of the work that all of my colleagues do for that. And it's really cool that nature can work as the glue that helps to advance that. So, yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 2:

If there's a way to connect with you, would it be best on through your website, should they reach out to you If there's any more questions about SFI or how do people follow SFI.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can follow SFI on the social sphere. So we have social media handles that I think are forestorg or sustainable forestry initiative, but just go to our website. You'll find it all there. And then, yes, you can email me. My email is on there as well. I'm sure you guys will share it. I'm on LinkedIn. So, yeah, I can give you my phone number. No, we're good, just kidding.

Speaker 2:

Perfect Before our last question is let's say you found a magic genie that can only grant one wish related to your industry. What would you wish for and why?

Speaker 1:

Again, I feel like I'm sounding like a broken record, but I think big Either go big or go home is, I guess, what I say, but I would have that genie. Help us ensure that we can make all buildings and all communities for everybody healthy, sustainable, regenerative, giving back to nature, helping people thrive and helping communities thrive and helping nature thrive, all from our built environment. That would be amazing. So might be a tall ask, but I'm going to go for it anyways.

Speaker 3:

If it wasn't a tall ask, it probably wouldn't be worthwhile.

Speaker 1:

That's right, that's right.

Speaker 3:

So, annie, it's been a true pleasure. We really enjoyed having you here. Thank you so much for sharing about yourself, about your own career path, about sustainable forestry and about SFI. Everybody that we've talked to really has questions about where do the source materials come from for sustainable building, and we wanted to talk to somebody who knew a lot about that. So thank you for sharing with us. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

Sure, just if you have any questions, visit our website, forestorg. But yeah, you can reach out to me, you can call, you can email. It would be great. Thanks for having me, it's been fun See you around.

Speaker 2:

Thank you Sounds good, perfect.

Speaker 3:

All right, that's a wrap.

People on this episode

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Brady Potts

Host
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Nic Wilson

Host