Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts
The "Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts” is a podcast hosted by Brady and Nic, two industry advocates for the field of sustainable construction. In each episode, they interview thought leaders, industry powerhouses, and true supporters of the sustainable building movement. They cover the entire sustainable building spectrum, from forest management to final construction of buildings.
The podcast is designed to educate and inspire listeners about the benefits of Mass Timber. Mass timber is a sustainable building material that has several advantages over traditional materials like concrete and steel. It is strong, lightweight, and renewable, and it can be used to build a variety of structures, from small homes to large skyscrapers.
In addition to discussing the benefits of Mass Timber, Brady and Nic also explore the challenges of sustainable building as a whole. They talk about the importance of forest management, the need for government support, and the challenges of educating both the public and the building industry about the benefits of sustainable building.
The Mass Timber Group Show is a valuable resource for anyone interested in learning more about sustainable building. It is a thought-provoking and informative podcast that will leave you inspired to make a difference.
Here are some of the topics that have been covered on the show:
- The benefits of Mass Timber construction
- The challenges of sustainable building
- Forest management
- Government support for sustainable building
- Educating building industry professionals about sustainable building
The Mass Timber Group Show is available to listen to on a variety of platforms, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
If you are interested in learning more about sustainable building, I encourage you to check out The Mass Timber Group Show. It is a great resource for information, inspiration, and action.
Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts
Bringing Mass Timber Construction to New Markets w/Erica Spiritos
Can #masstimber #construction revolutionize local industry and create sustainable communities?
Erica Spiritos is on a mission to build regional mass timber ecosystems across the United States, emphasizing the importance of local supply chains, supportive policies, and #buildingcodes.
She discusses strategies for jumpstarting these ecosystems, such as secondary fabrication and post-processing to alleviate supply chain bottlenecks – and emphasizes the importance of integrating manufacturing and fabrication to support rural economies, ensuring that economic benefits stay within the community.
She is currently working on a project in Seattle to promote Mass Timber in construction and remove barriers for developers.
Connect with Erica on LinkedIn
Looking for your mass timber community? Attend the 2025 Mass Timber Group Summit in Denver Co - Aug 20-22nd!
If you can encourage public agencies at the city, county, state level to utilize mass timber. I think having those projects for people to visit and point to is huge for increasing market adoption.
Speaker 3:This is the Mass Timber Group Show. I'm Nick and I'm Brady and we talk to mass timber experts. Today we caught up with Erica Spiritos, a consultant working with public agencies and private organizations to grow regional mass timber ecosystems.
Speaker 2:Now there are very few people in the industry with as much experience as Erica, working at StructureLamb Swinnerton and then going on to co-found TimberLab. She's an inspiration and a guiding light for the mass timber industry, but before we jump in.
Speaker 3:If you want to learn more about building mass timber buildings and meet other teams doing the same, we're hosting the second annual Mass Timber Group Summit this August in Denver. Summit this August in Denver We've got 30 plus sessions, three amazing networking parties, eight mastermind sessions and building tours of the coolest projects in Denver all designed to give you the tools needed to use Mass Timber with confidence and the connections to make your next project happen. Check out the link in the show notes below for info and, if you like these podcasts, subscribe into the channel with the biggest compliment you could ever give us. So with that, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Thank you, brady and Nick, for having me on the show. I'm Erica Spiritos. I live in Portland, oregon, with my husband and twin sons. I've been working in the mass timber industry for just about a decade and really got my start working for my father on a tall timber development in New York City, and that project never got built. It was really ahead of its time. Um, those of you who are following know that New York city just adopted massive timber, or CLT, into their building codes about a year ago. Um, but in any case it got me hooked and I've been magnetized to the industry really ever since. Um and moved out west to work for StructureLamb and then started Swinnerton's mass timber division, which eventually became Timber Lab.
Speaker 3:Got it, and so you went through the entrance to mass timber. You got hooked. You worked for some of the biggest players in the industry. Now, what are you focusing on next?
Speaker 1:some of the biggest players in the industry. Now, what are you focusing on next? About a year ago, I launched my own consultancy and I'm focused on working with public agencies and private organizations to grow regional mass timber ecosystems across the United States.
Speaker 3:And what does growing a mass timber regional ecosystem mean in the everyday life? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such a good question and I think the obvious thing that comes to mind is making sure that there is mass timber supply available in each region of the country, and we're a ways from that, but making strides for sure. But there's other layers to it. It includes making sure that there are policies in place that are friendly to mass timber construction, that the codes support mass timber construction building codes, zoning policies or zoning regulations and it includes know-how right, making sure that the people in the region understand how to cost-effectively sure that the people in the region understand how to cost effectively, efficiently design and build mass timber structures and the conditions are really unique in each part of the world, but in each part of the country.
Speaker 1:So it might be that in one region there's a lot of know-how but the codes have not advanced to the point to support optimal use of mass timber, or the way the zoning is set up in a certain city doesn't really support the use of mass timber and it might be the total opposite landscape somewhere else.
Speaker 3:Can you give us some examples?
Speaker 1:Sure. So I think the Northeast is a great well. Actually, you know, let's start in the Pacific Northwest, because that's where I got my start. Well, real start.
Speaker 1:The Pacific Northwest in many ways was ripe for the growth of mass timber because a few projects had gotten off the ground with the support of regional supply regional coming from Canada mostly, but there were also glulam manufacturers in Oregon that had been operating since the 1960s Enough, so that building with timber was familiar and you weren't making a step from concrete to mass timber. You were, maybe like familiar. There were contractors and architects who understood what wood was and how to work with it, even if the possibilities that mass timber offers are slightly newer and different. Right. So in that case, I think supply was available and codes were adopted. Mass timber codes were adopted quite rapidly and quickly in the Pacific Northwest Oregon adopting CLT in 2015. Oregon and Washington adopting the tall timber building codes before 2021, I think.
Speaker 1:But maybe zoning really wasn't making mass timber viable solution and so it just didn't make sense to build the eight-story or the 12-story mass timber building. It made sense to build the five over two seven-story podium housing and the 20-story concrete high-rise right, but not the in-between and in the Northeast. I think they're in a very different place. They've got some supply available to the North but not totally local to New England or the Mid-Atlantic region yet, getting there pressure coming from the North and from the south, or a supply coming from the north and from the south, but the codes hadn't really supported the use of mass timber until much more recently, right, and then there's the know-how question. Do architects and engineers have that know-how to be able to cost-effectively, smartly design with mass timber? And do contractors know how to build with mass timber? And all those things need to come together and so that I think that piece of the puzzle is still in the works.
Speaker 2:It's been a long time coming to get all of these codes in place and, like you said, you go to different regions of the U? S or wherever you are, and it could be wildly different. What? What do you think was maybe examples for us, or people in the industry, or people that are trying to get into into the industry? Do you have any ideas that we could help push the industry forward? And I know it's a it's a big tall order to go to the city. You know, maybe you need somebody. You, it's a big tall order to go to the city. Maybe you need somebody, a big engineering company, to kind of push that forward. But is there any other ideas that how we can all kind of like help the industry out and push it forward?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And a couple of things come to mind, and maybe I'll just start by sharing the story of what I perceive happened in Oregon. In Oregon, in 2016 or so, the Carbon 12 project was built. It was built through an alternate means and methods process and permitted by the state of Oregon as opposed to the city of Portland, and it was type 3a construction but eight stories, so they received a number of stories variance that allowed for this building, which would now be classified as type 4C construction.
Speaker 1:But there was political will behind mass timber because they understood the rural economic benefit, the regional economic development that would come from the growth of the mass timber industry.
Speaker 1:And then the year later, the first tech federal credit union headquarters was constructed in Hillsborough, just a bit 20 miles, maybe west of Portland, five-story, 160,000 square foot office building, built-to-suit office building in a city that wasn't really on the map.
Speaker 1:But all of a sudden, with that project, which was delivered with a 4% cost savings and a four month schedule savings compared to the steel project that it was benchmarked against, the city of Hillsborough and the county and Washington County were like so excited about showcasing this project right, all the attraction that it was, or all of the attention that it was attracting. And at the same time they had a couple of public projects that they were getting ready to develop Washington County Events Center and the Hillsborough Community Center, now called the Hidden Creek Community Center. And so with this First Tech Federal Credit Union precedent project, these public agencies felt like it was possible to build their public projects out of mass timber. And they did it. And having those projects even just those three, I think really made people feel like mass timber was totally within reach, because there were both public and private examples of mass timber's use. And through those public projects there was just incredible exposure with all the people who attend events at the events center and go to the community center.
Speaker 3:Hey, we're going to get back to the podcast in just a second, but first I have a question for you. Are you somebody looking to build a mass timber project? If the answer is yes, then you need to put together an experienced team.
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Speaker 1:So I think if you can encourage public agencies at the city, county, state level to utilize mass timber, I think having those projects for people to visit and point to is huge for increasing market adoption.
Speaker 1:Other efforts to increase market adoption or to raise awareness even about mass timber are the accelerator programs that have been launched in Boston and New York and Atlanta, and those were initiatives that were spearheaded by the city either the City Economic Development Corporation in New York or the Office of Planning in Boston and sponsored in part by the US Forest Service and the Softwood Lumber Board to support feasibility study of mass timber projects and to get people thinking about mass timber as a potential construction typology, all in an effort to reduce the carbon footprint of construction. And I think in certain parts of the country, especially on the East Coast, that approach is helpful. I'm not sure if that's the right approach for a city like Seattle or Portland that already has those examples right. There are other barriers in place that I think need to be addressed. It's not that people don't know about mass timber. So identifying what those barriers are in each of the country and then really coming up with pointed, tailored solutions to address those unique barriers in each region is key.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a very good answer and you talked a lot about one part of the mass timber ecosystem being like the codes and the zoning and awareness, but you also do a lot of work like on everything that's got to deliver on those projects, so like the supply chain, the ecosystem that supports these projects getting built. Can you tell us a little bit about that work?
Speaker 1:Can you be more specific in your question?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so you do regional mass timber ecosystems right, and so ecosystem is like a big word, and so code and zoning might be like one part of it. What are the other parts of that ecosystem?
Speaker 1:Sure. So I think sorry I have this image here on my desk of my it's me and my maternal grandfather that keeps falling down, but I like to look at it. He is, he'll be 101 in June, in june, okay, he's like a very important person in my life. Um, anyway, um, yeah, other parts of that ecosystem, um, it's, it's the, so it's it's policy and regulation, um, and zoning codes and building codes, and know-how and supply. That supply includes forests, sawmills, manufacturers, fabricators and the business model that works for one part of the country or one region as far as developing that supply chain may not work in another region.
Speaker 1:So in the Pacific Northwest, the approach that we took in with Timber Lab was in complementing existing regional manufacturing gluon manufacturing capacity with fabrication capacity, because at that point those regional manufacturers didn't have a way of bringing their glulam into the mass timber market or transforming their industrial products into commercial custom building components for lack of 3D modeling capabilities and CNC machine capabilities.
Speaker 1:So we thought all right, let's take what we've already got, this amazing manufacturing capacity here in Oregon and Southwest Washington and couple it with fabrication. I think if you tried to do that in New England it would be more challenging because there isn't that same manufacturing capacity to complement. So the way that you jumpstart a mass timber ecosystem is not like a there's no one-size-fits-all formula right, you just really have to look at the conditions within the region. And I was actually talking to an architect in New England yesterday and he was saying, yeah, we got to do fabrication in New England and bring in billets from, you know, canada or Europe, some opportunity there, but it's not the same opportunity that existed in the Northwest or that potentially exists even in the Southeast with the glulam manufacturers that have been operating there as well.
Speaker 3:No, I like that answer a lot and so you're actually working with some folks up in Maine. Can you talk about the specific ecosystem tweaks or compliments that you're trying to do specifically in that region?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm just getting started. I've been helping a group in Maine with a business plan for bringing manufacturing of mass timber to Maine, and this is not a new story to those of us who have been following mass timber for a while, especially New England. Right, there have been two prior attempts to bring mass timber to Maine and those two didn't come to fruition and potentially you know it's our point like they didn't come to fruition because the conditions weren't ripe, you know, and that could have been a lack of know-how or a lack of demand or a lack of code. The code landscape or the current codes weren't friendly to mass timber. I mean a variety of factors or the workforce didn't understand mass timber, and so those who were considering or exploring putting mass timber manufacturing in Maine ultimately didn't feel like the region was ready for it, even though there is definitely adequate softwood, lumber or natural resources in that region to support it. So we're exploring different ways of jumpstarting this ecosystem, or at least the supply chain part of the ecosystem, and still trying to figure out the right formula. Still trying to figure out the right formula, I think one idea is to do this secondary fabrication or post-processing, which could be CNC machining. It could be final finishing of material that we purchase on the market and providing that an extra entity, material that can alleviate that bottleneck.
Speaker 1:But more and more it's coming to light that a more full approach that includes manufacturing and fabrication is probably the right strategy to make the most use of the resources available in Maine and New England. And because the conditions really are ripening in New England. Like New York City is so excited about Mass Timber and I'm saying that like almost 10 years after having tried to build a Mass Timber building in lower Manhattan it's like now, okay, now it's happening right, and people are really talking about it in a serious way and working on Mass Timber projects in New York. So that's a really exciting opportunity. Projects in New York so that's a really exciting opportunity. And the way in which we're going about it, I think, is even more exciting for me because we're exploring much more collaborative business models that empower employees, that support communities. Like that really support communities.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things that I've been learning about lately that has been almost a little bit like a shot to the heart is that and I don't know too I didn't know too much about this, having grown up in New York City. But, like all of the language or the narrative that mass timber supports rural economies, I think really needs to be questioned in a serious way. And not that mass timber can't support rural economies, but mass timber doesn't inherently support rural economies and I think we can do a better job of making sure that money is staying in the hands of those communities and not just being pocketed by the shareholders who are investing in public corporations. You know, on Wall Street Right and so it really matters where you buy from. Like, those dollars either make it back into the hands of communities or they don't.
Speaker 1:And I think you know, nick, you could probably maybe speak to this a little bit, but I'm learning a lot about sawmill consolidation and what happened to communities in the West when sawmills were consolidated, and I just think, yeah, there's, I'm, I'm in, I'm in, I'm appreciating opportunities to like dive into that a little bit more, because I think there's an opportunity to really get it right. No, and like, not just pay lip service to the idea of rural economic development, but really make sure that it happens.
Speaker 3:How would, how would you do that?
Speaker 1:I am by no means an expert on this, but there are actually organizations operating that are experts in rural economic development and I think ownership models you know, business ownership models are really are one way, um, cooperative ownership models of sawmills, um, just giving, uh, I think, yeah, um, local economies right, helping people manufacture their natural resources locally, as opposed to exporting them to the, to a faraway market. I mean, a lot of times that's what's happening, and I think people now, from Alaska to Maine, are realizing that they can do more with the materials that are available to them, that are, you know, growing in their proverbial backyards, and and turn them into, transform them into manufactured product being, be it lumber or mass timber or something Some other, you know, wood based products. Rather than exporting those logs, in the case of Alaska, like to China or something else, those logs, in the case of Alaska, like to China or something else, you know, I think people are excited about the idea of knowing that they are supporting their regional economy using and buying from local manufacturers. Like architects want to take their owners to visit the forests that they're sourcing from for their mass timber projects. There's a reason why, you know, and so if we can enable that.
Speaker 1:I think the growth of regional ecosystems and the transparency that comes with that, or the relationships, the personal relationships that come from that attention to your neighborhood, you know, like your neck of the woods, like that will pay dividends, you know, Because it's harder to have a negative impact if you know what that impact is. Right, like we don't want to be having a negative impact. None of this is necessarily like there's no malintent, right? I don't think so. We just want to, I think, identify ways to increase our awareness and deepen our awareness of what's happening and the potential impacts that we are and can are having and can have.
Speaker 2:Do you say? Would you say that you have already found a sweet spot with what you have developed and what you are developing, or would you say that you still, you're still dreaming up that that perfect? You know, development, that's kind of the pie in the sky. This, maybe this neighborhood, that that works well with itself and the walkability is amazing and there's retail, and you know there's, there's housing and there there's a cool factor that actually draws people to it. I mean, I guess the question is, have you found a sweet spot with what you're developing right now and are you going to continue that? Or is there something a little bit different on the horizon, maybe that you're tweaking? What are you after?
Speaker 1:I don't think I've found it and I feel like an insatiable appetite that my energy levels cannot keep up with, like an insatiable appetite that my energy levels cannot keep up with. Just a model toddler, twin toddlers, right now. But I feel like this insatiable curiosity to understand what those models look like. And borrowing from other industries is a great place to look. There are things we can learn from the automotive industry, the textile industry, you know that right? Um, obviously, and so I'm trying to broaden my, my scope a little bit. My vision, um, I think you know there's I'm, I'm an intuitive person, like I kind of make decisions intuitively. I tend to do that for better or for worse, and I feel myself drawn toward, like, learning about cooperative models of business. So, you know, in Oregon there's the Tillamook Creamery, their cooperatively owned dairy, they're cooperatively owned dairy. And could such a model exist for sawmills? And could we come up with like a model for small scale sawmills in all different regions across the't? Care about mass timber grade lumber. They don't want to be bothered with drying it to 12% moisture content right. They don't want to be bothered with the squareness requirements or the plating right, and so it's really hard for mass timber manufacturers to get the kind of lumber that they need to build a glulam beam CLT is a little bit easier because it's just number two in better lumber, but glulam it's really tough. Most sawmills haven't invested in msr or machine stress rating machinery to, even though they might have that stress rated lumber coming through their line. They don't know it and in fact it's a missed opportunity, um, to sell it for that premium because that premium is like 100% on what they're selling it for. But I think I'm excited about the idea of like small scale models of sawmills where they're just focused on like lamb stock material and they're going to get you the best quality and they're going to service the regional mass timber manufacturers and maybe they're cooperatively owned by all the small scale forest landowners in the region and it doesn't have to be operated by those landowners. Right, they can outsource the operation, but they have ownership in it. They have a stake in the success of that sawmill. I don't have the idea, I don't have it figured out. Another thing that I've been excited about is the idea of mutual benefit corporations, which is a newer concept to me. But a mutual benefit corporation doesn't have to make a profit. It's in that way, like a nonprofit corporation, but you could think of it like an umbrella organization that would allow for sharing of resources to across multiple for-profit corporations underneath.
Speaker 1:So, like you know, it's really frustrating to have to lay off um or to feel like you have to lay off an entire shift of um production personnel. Um, when you don't have, when your projects push out six months and you can't, you know, for a manufacturer, right Like, that's a, that's a tough challenge. Is there a way that that people could be employed in a few different places? I mean, and maybe it's not at the production level, maybe it's at the administration level, like bookkeeping, or maybe it's. Maybe there's a physical campus and there's like actual groundskeeping and you don't need that. All five businesses on the campus wood products businesses don't need to have a groundskeeper. Right Like, can we figure out ways to share resources efficiently? Because you know there's an ebb and flow? Because you know there's an ebb and flow.
Speaker 3:There's a natural ebb and flow that we're never going to be able to avoid.
Speaker 1:That also makes businesses more resilient, right? So if you can make that Right, weather the tide like weather the storm, help them weather the storm. So I don't know, I haven't had any opportunity to like to explore that really in practice yet, but in theory, in theory, the idea is exciting to me and I'm sure there are other models.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, when you do have the opportunity to explore those in practice, we'll definitely have to come on again and unpack those, because that's a topic that really excites me. Have to come on again and unpack those, because that's a topic that really excites me. But in the immediate future, what are you focusing on next? What do you head down charging towards?
Speaker 1:Right now I'm working, I'm on contract with the city of Seattle Office of Economic Development to help them stand up a mass-tribured nonprofit and you know, I think the idea or not I think, but the idea behind that nonprofit is to support equitable and sustainable growth of the industry as it develops in the region and to make it make and to almost like grease the grease the skids or grease the wheels like to make it easy to do mass timber in the region. Right, and Seattle is like a great example of a place where people have been thinking about mass timber for over a decade. You know, and they have been there are some of the earliest projects. I think the first mass timber project that got built just outside of Seattle was the Shoreline Medical Center or clinic. It was a CLT roof on a steel building. I think it was 2014. But since then, only 15 buildings have been built out of mass timber in the city of Seattle in the last 10 years, and so they've had a lot of like and they have a lot of know how in that city, like very especially on the design side, like architects and engineers know how to do mass timber, like they're especially on the design side, like architects and engineers know how to do mass timber, but there have been some setbacks and there's like the supply chain exists in the region. Right, you can source very easily regional mass timber regionally for your projects.
Speaker 1:But other conditions haven't been so friendly to mass timber. And you know, I was just talking to someone with Washington Department of Commerce and she was saying she was saying like Seattle makes it really hard for the building industry. They put so many policy goals onto new construction that it's just crushing. They want your new construction project to be net zero. They want it to be built by, like, minority and women owned businesses. They want it to be transit oriented development. They want it to be, you know, and there's just like it's it's really hard to make it all affordable, right, affordable housing. It's like it's it's challenging landscape, and so I think there are some real regulatory um opportunities to making mass timber, making it easier to build with mass timber in Seattle.
Speaker 1:So what we're trying to do is remove some of those barriers that exist um bringing people together to address those issues with policy, workforce development, public awareness.
Speaker 1:I mean there are developers who are sitting on sites that are perfect for mass timber who just don't know where to start with mass timber right, and we need to make sure that they have the tools, that they have the tools so that they can do what what we all, um, would love to see them do, right, um, so I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1:It's also an experiment like I haven't seen any other city take this approach to advancing mass timber, and so we're gonna see how it pans out. But I have enjoyed working on the project for the last six months and we're coming down the home stretch. I'm going to basically be establishing this nonprofit with a mission and vision and broad strokes, programming and selecting a board of directors and passing the baton to them next month. That's exciting. And then I'm really excited to get my head more in the game with for Maine Cause I think bringing mass timber to Maine is just going to be so fun and focus my efforts back on the East coast a little bit, because I have parents over there who would love to spend more time with their grandkids, and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:What cities are you seeing separating themselves from the pack? It sounds like that you play on the East Coast and the West Coast or the Pacific Northwest. Are you? Are you seeing like these? You know, Seattle, Portland, just completely separating themselves. But I've heard that, like you know, Boston is is definitely on the on the way up and really moving the needle. I mean, are you seeing any other cities? I know a lot of going on in Texas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think Michigan and there are some other states as well, I think, for different reasons, cities or states are pushing for mass timber, but in many cases, it's the cities that are focused on reducing their carbon footprint that are embracing mass timber the most, and it's, I think it's really in an effort to reduce, to utilize low carb, low embodied carbon materials and and also, you know, there's the benefit of just the beauty and the public health and physiological benefits associated with mass timber too.
Speaker 1:But I think you named them like, yeah, boston, new York, atlanta. I'm not so familiar with what's going on in Texas, but I think what's happening in Michigan is exciting and Seattle, yeah, I mean Oregon obviously has been at it for a while and they've received tens of millions of dollars from the federal government to support, to support the use. But I mean then there's Milwaukee. I mean I worked on the Ascent Project, which was completed in 2021, 19 stories of mass timber on top of six-story concrete podium, and Milwaukee's at it again. And Tim Gochman, the developer, or one of the two people leading Newland development, is working to bring more Ascents to market Right and even partnering with other developers in that initiative, is working to bring more Ascent to market right and even partnering with other developers in that initiative. So I know it can kind of come from unexpected places, which I think is really exciting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I completely agree, and Tim is somebody that personally inspires me that that's the type of project that Nick and I want to do one day. So we've been following what he's doing and his new stuff with Timber Plus Partners. I think I just saw it on LinkedIn the other day. He's like, hey, we're ready for Ascent version two.
Speaker 1:And what's amazing about what Tim is doing, I mean to me, is that it is a different business model too. Like I'm not sure how much he's you know, you know, but from what I know about it, um, and from what I know about it, he is reducing risk for developers who are interested in exploring mass timber by creating almost a portfolio of or I'm calling it like a mutual fund, like of mass timber projects that an investor can invest in and then receive a return, not based on how one of those buildings does, but how they all do in aggregate, and I think that is really enticing. So, like we got to come up with more, you know, more business models like that that reduce risk for investors and for entrepreneurs to, you know, so that we can take the risk that we need to take to create the world that we want to live in or that we will be able to continue to inhabit.
Speaker 3:That's super interesting. I didn't know that about the project, so I'm so he's doing some sort of fun. Then, rather than by a individual project basis, I'll have to dig in, I think.
Speaker 1:So that's my understanding of it, and if I'm not correct on it, you should have Tim on the show to talk about it.
Speaker 3:He's on the list.
Speaker 1:He's on the list, yeah.
Speaker 3:On on the list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh on on the note of inspiration, is there anybody that's inspired you along this past? So many people, um, so many people have inspired me. I've learned so much over the years from many people and right now I'm trying to listen more to voices that aren't as loud and that could be, trying to really pay attention to the voices coming from native people, tribes, indigenous people across this country, who have incredible wisdom to share with us as it relates to forest health and even like constructing a built environment. Other women, you know, trying to identify other women who are stepping up to lead this industry in directions that are sustainable for the planet and for the people who are doing this work. Lindsay Wickstrom is an architect and professor out of Columbia. She's in New York and I'm really inspired by the book that she wrote Designing the Forest and Other Mass Timber Futures and in many ways it's academic. There you go. Did you read it?
Speaker 3:I did. I'm halfway through it, yeah, but big fan.
Speaker 1:It's incredible and the bibliography is even more incredible and I found myself just going to the citations and wanting to learn more. And, you know, I think people could look at that book and say that's just so aspirational. But we need that, like, we need people who are, who are thinking along these lines and and setting vision, um, because, uh, we need a north star to show us what's possible and then we can start to take steps to get there. I mean, and in general, just thinking I've been inspired to learn about, like, just more feminine ways of leading that honor the whole person and that are rooted in an abundance mentality rather than, you know, a more scarce mentality, um, that are more collaborative in nature as opposed to competitive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that. That was a great answer.
Speaker 1:And I will say you don't have to be feminine doesn't mean female, and so I think I just want to make that distinction. Like there is masculine and feminine energy in all of us, and our society is largely masculine in the way it is structured, and I think there is. We just need to balance out. We just need to balance out.
Speaker 1:It's not about the feminine taking over, it's really that a balance is needed, and you know that well, because it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. Or maybe you know, obviously there's all, there's different ways even of going about that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no, the one of the biggest takeaways I had from Lindsay's book was, you know and I don't think I'm getting this wrong but all of New York City, all of the apartments, all of it is truly one of the largest things I've ever seen. And the point of the story is all of that is getting built somewhere in the world. The built landscape the size of New York City is getting built every single month and we now have a way to build sustainably and more ethically and it's with Mass Timber. And so you know, if we all kind of do our part, we can go from barely 1%. You know, maybe we'll move the needle to 2% of the overall mass timber construction, but regardless, that really blew my mind, that key takeaway. But real quick before we ask our last question where can people find and connect with you to do future projects? Where can people find and connect with you to do?
Speaker 1:future projects. Sure, if we're not already connected, probably the easiest way to connect is on LinkedIn. Probably that's the easiest way to connect. I do try to check my inbox there. But yeah, I love to meet new people and we'll spend time with anyone. I just am learning. I'm learning everything. I'm learning something new in and we'll spend time with anyone. I just am learning. I'm learning everything. I'm learning something new in every conversation that I have and would love to chat.
Speaker 2:Perfect Well, we will find you on LinkedIn. That's where the mass timber industry seems to be hanging out, and so please follow Erica Spiritos on LinkedIn. That's S-P-I-R-I-T-O-S. Thank you so much, erica. You're a breath of fresh air. We will be following all your projects and hopefully we can check in with you soon for updates on what's to come Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for this opportunity. It was a pleasure chatting with you, both Brady and Nick.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Have a great rest of your day. Take care, we'll be right back.
