Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts

Mass Timber Construction - What You Need to Know w/ Carpentry Plus, Inc.

• Brady Potts, Nic Wilson / Russ Brotnov & Jason Fehlman • Season 1 • Episode 42

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#MassTimber #Construction experts,  Russ Brotnov and Jason Fehlman with Carpentry Plus (one of the most experiences #MassTimber teams in North America) unpack their experience with Mass Timber construction and its impact on communities.

Mass Timber projects demand a blend of experience, wisdom, and early planning for success, with mentorship shaping the next generation of carpenters. The construction method offers sustainable solutions and supports timber-based communities. Russ and Jason are passionate about introducing Mass Timber to new markets, valuing the camaraderie and journey within the industry.

Connect with Russ on LinkedIn

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Check out Carpentry Plus Inc projects!


Looking for your mass timber community? Attend the 2025 Mass Timber Group Summit in Denver Co - Aug 20-22nd!

Speaker 1:

How do you make this go so seamless? How is this all just fitting up? We didn't have that experience when we did it and we kind of raised our hand hey, you have to start early, you don't just show up and do this, you have to plan for it. It takes a lot of effort. When you put in that effort and you can come in early and help the design, you can make a super smooth, beautiful project happen very quickly.

Speaker 2:

This is the Mass Timber.

Speaker 3:

Group Show. I'm Nick and I'm Brady and we talk to mass timber experts. Today we caught up with Russ Brotnov and Jason Fellman, owners of Carpentry Plus a team of mass timber installation experts doing incredible work.

Speaker 2:

The projects they have worked on are impressive, to say the least, working on the tallest buildings in Oregon down to the local coffee shops and everything in between. But what makes them truly special is their team and the way they approach each unique project.

Speaker 3:

But before we jump in, if you want to learn more about building mass timber buildings and meet other teams doing the same, we're hosting the second annual Mass Timber Group Summit this August in Denver. We've got 30 plus sessions, three amazing networking parties, eight mastermind sessions and building tours of the coolest projects in Denver all designed to give you the tools needed to use Mass Timber with confidence and the connections to make your projects happen. Check out the link in the show notes below for more info and if you like these podcasts. Subscribing to the channel is the biggest compliment you can give us. It helps us book incredible guests like Russ and Jason and brings more Mass Timber awareness to the rest of the world. So with that, let's get into it.

Speaker 1:

Our home market is Portland, oregon. We also work in Washington, anywhere in the Pacific Northwest, and are willing, for the right relationships and the right projects, to travel anywhere in the country. Yeah, so we've traveled to the East coast, we've done Alabama and are looking into Denver projects. Currently we can reach out to almost anywhere in the US. I think it's a combination of things.

Speaker 1:

So every project that we work on or that we entertain working on, we're looking at the team of people that are involved the design team, the owner, even other subcontractors, general contractors to see if it's going to be a right fit for who we are and how we like to build. We also want to know if they're experienced or inexperienced and to know where we can interact in the value stream of that specific project. There are some projects that have a feel like everything's under control and anybody could come in and do it. That's not really what we're looking for. We're looking to come in early to help the design be successful, to build a successful project for the owner and even the other contractors on the project. We want the electrician to be successful, for instance. We want everyone to be successful on the project. We want to push mass timber forward and there's a lot of super cool projects out there that are focused on moving this market forward and really want to be a part of those projects.

Speaker 3:

What projects right now really excite you?

Speaker 4:

We're super excited about the Julie West project. It's a 12-story project going in downtown Portland. It's going to be the tallest building in Portland and I'm excited about it. It's got a Walsh team on there. They're great guys. We really enjoyed building the PA building and Deacon with them a few other projects. They've been great partners and the whole team and KPFF. They've been great on putting this project together. It's gone through design. It's getting ready to start here in just about a month and a half Going down right now before we can go up.

Speaker 3:

Got it, and that'll be the tallest project that Carpentry Plus has done too right.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, we're targeting two, four floors a week on that and it has got a steel brace frame that allows that project to kind of track with the mass timber capabilities. Six weeks, six floors and take a little break so that the facade can catch up. Another six weeks, another six floors. Three weeks, six floors, take a little break for the facade and then three weeks, six floors again. So our build schedule is roughly six weeks on that project for 12 stories.

Speaker 3:

Hey, we're going to get back to the podcast in just a second, but first I have a question for you. Are you somebody looking to build a mass timber project? If the answer is yes, then you need to put together an experienced team.

Speaker 2:

Our partners at Cornerstone Timber Frames are leaders in heavy timber construction and have 30 plus years of experience, which means you can trust them to get the job done right.

Speaker 3:

They collaborate with Nordic Structures to bring you the highest quality FSC certified mass timber available. They also have some of the most advanced fabrication technology in the industry, so your project goes up smoothly without costly on-site modification or delays.

Speaker 2:

That means they have the experience, network and technology to make your next mass timber project a success. Learn more about Cornerstone Timber Frames by clicking the link in the show notes below.

Speaker 3:

That's really fast, right? Yes, that is correct. For somebody that doesn't know, how much faster is that than concrete.

Speaker 4:

I don't know that we can answer for concrete we don't specialize in concrete but I can tell you that that same space would have taken six months to build, and now we're doing it in six weeks from traditional framing.

Speaker 3:

And is that purely attributed to the mass timber portion of this building? Like just the prefab offsite just-in-time delivery.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it definitely is. So I mean overall duration. We've moved 30% of our labor into the pre-construction, so we're building this building before we build it. We're building it in the design phase, where every piece, every component is designed and put together. And so all of our efforts that we would have spent in the field, now we're spending in the front side of the projects, planning and orchestrating this, so that it can flow like with that kind of speed and efficiency we also, uh, have kind of our own means and methods of constructing these buildings.

Speaker 1:

So, uh, as anyone that does what we do, they'll have kind of some uniquenesses to how they operate and how they erect or construct one of these buildings, and so we'd like to think that we have a little bit to do with the pace at which it's going to go up. It's not just the mass timber, it is, like Russ said, a lot of the pre-construction work that goes into it. But we also have an exceptional field team that puts these buildings together, and we like to be involved early on in the process so that we can help the details fit those means and methods to be the most benefit to the construction team and to the owner in the long run.

Speaker 3:

What have you seen being some of like the real common design assist aspects that you guys jump in on and help that either optimizes for cost or schedule Like? What are the kind of like the low hanging fruit that you come in and you're seeing time after time again, that you guys are able to help with?

Speaker 4:

There's a lot of different ways you can meet that. For example, there's one there was a school we built and we wanted on a hard bid, and then the project needed some VE, and so the approach in that building was to use glulams for the cords, for the structural diaphragm, and we were able to remove 250 glulams out of the building by making the CLT the cord approach. And so in that way, you know, think about all the hardware and beams and the time to install that. Take that out, you move it up to simply a simple system, put it on top of the CLT, and so you save time, you save efficiencies. So those are some of the big changes you can make, you know, and little changes can be and they play out a little bigger. It's like if your connection is a connection that costs $1,500 to buy and install and we can convert that to a bearing condition that costs $50. So it's faster and maybe a more cost-effective. You know, I think there's a holistic way you got to look at a project that you're trying to solve for.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and that kind of goes back to that conversation that we had before we started recording about making sure that mass timber projects are successful for the entire industry. So it's like if you guys are able to come in early and identify some of these opportunities, that's going to make these projects overall more successful, which then will spur the adoption of more and more. And so you find that if you're working on these projects in that early design assist phase, is there anything that happens later on, when somebody comes and brings you in maybe after the building's already designed that you find and rework and are able to kind of like help make it from a maybe to a yes in determining to use mass timber?

Speaker 4:

I think that the later you come into a project, the more designed it is, the more people are invested in the approach and it makes it harder to make changes like big changes that have significant impact. You know where you could change a panel size, where you can change maybe the beam spacing and some of the other things that could have serious impacts on the project. Later in the game usually you're trying to find like the best sourcing options you can, the most cost-effective way to work with the design where it's at and using your good friends and partners that you've developed over the years to try to source creatively as you can to supply for the building. But it's more responsive than being able to plan and adjust to meet the project goals, I think.

Speaker 1:

There are some aspects of the build itself where, for instance, typically we can only go so many floors ahead of a concrete slab or ahead of exteriors and we've been able to take on some engineering on ourselves to create temporary diaphragms or whatever we need to move the project to prevent like slow down of the mass timber structure so that we can go beyond what is like the typical restraints of a structure, to move at a quicker pace for a longer period of time, to go more floors and that's, I think, critical for a successful project and to be a benefit to the owner of the project by getting out of their way to finish the rest of the aspect of the building.

Speaker 2:

Knowing this is a young industry. If you go to your website, you have an incredible amount of projects under your belt already. I mean I hope people can go to carpentryplusinccom, go to your projects again and just kind of take a look at. You're so diverse. I mean you've done big to small and everything in between, knowing that we talked about being true to who you are in the beginning. But I guess how do you go from where you were and then get into mass timber, knowing you know I guess it's been around what 12, 13 years. It's a little bit debatable in North America, but if you kind of like pushed all your chips into the mass timber now and that's all you kind of think about or what's your that's a fun question.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for asking. So we were heavy timber before mass timber was really really a thing. We were building bridges, schools, churches out of heavy timber glulam structures. So mass timber was really natural. We would bring in large glulam packages into our shop and hand cut and fabricate those in our shop and then ship them out to the job ready to install, and we were doing that with cranes and hoisting large elements into place. Or we would build a bridge, you know, in a parking lot or separate space and then install it with, you know, like a large crane across the river. Mass Timber was actually excited when it came to be able to CNC and produce this at a large volume. It was just, it was a natural fit for who we are and where we came from.

Speaker 3:

And you're working on projects in your own backyard. Now I was looking on the website and I saw the Mount Scott Community Center and I know there's a little bit of history there with you. Russ. Can you unpack that a little bit for us? Yeah?

Speaker 4:

that's actually. That's fun. I'm so excited that we have that project I used to take, so we lived about like two miles from Mount Scott Community Center. We would take our kids swimming there and my daughter had her one year birthday party, you know, in the park. It's a really, really cool space. The guy that is actually going to build this, jeff Goodrich, he built the first I mean the building in the first place, and so now he's getting an opportunity to add the mass timber element as a superintendent for us. So I think that's a fun story.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. I think it's always funny how small the world really is, right, and especially when you're talking about your community, right. So it's like you're bringing your kids somewhere and then fast forward an entire quote, unquote, generation and now you're bringing this new, fancy, innovative, sustainable material and you put it right back into that space that your kids used to play in, whereas, like when you're sitting at your daughter's birthday, back then you probably never thought, oh, at your daughter's birthday back then you probably never thought, oh, I'm going to redo this whole space in mass timber.

Speaker 3:

So it's like that's a fun story. That's why I had to ask about it. Yeah, thanks. The other thing I wanted to touch on is and you kind of alluded to it a little bit, jason is mass timber, has it's more than just a building material. That is cool, right, like it's got forestry aspects to it, it's got biophilic aspects to it. People feel different in timber buildings. But way back at the roots and pun intended, like what do you think mass timber does for communities that are timber based or forest communities? Like how does mass timber play into that ecosystem?

Speaker 1:

You know, just being in a in a structure that's built with mass timber feels right. That's one way it impacts. It feels good, setting that we're sitting in forest and a mass timber structure right. It puts a smile on your face just to be here. But I also think it brings hope to communities for a long time been based on timber right. Their whole economy is based on timber and to have a sustainable product timber-based brings hope to small communities that are wanting to thrive. I think that that's a super cool aspect of this industry and just the change that mass timber has brought to our smaller communities, but also in larger communities. We've been able to be a part of multiple low-income housing projects where mass timber is becoming a viable product for that, so creating super cool spaces for people to live in that need the resources that low-income housing provides.

Speaker 4:

I think there's a personal aspect to that too. So we're from Estacada, I'm in Estacada, I live there, and it was a mill town.

Speaker 4:

It has sawmill in it. It doesn't. Now the park there is called, you know, the Timber Park, and it's losing. It's lost some of its identity. You know now that it went away and changed, and so I think it's kind of fun is we bought an old plywood mill that has shut down and now we're running our mass timber business out of there and we have sold some of that property to Cut my Timber, and so they're going to be coming out and doing Goulam fabrication right next to our shop, and then solder is moving in just a mile down the road. Maybe the old is give way, but the new is still is coming, and so this small town now has a new representation of timber, which I think is fun.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think that's really cool and you said it right. It's like maybe there's a piece that is sunsetting in the timber world, in these communities, but there is a new dawn coming with these new opportunities. Like you just said, cut my timber solder. You guys obviously all in the same community, sometimes, I guess, even in the same neighborhood. The other thing that I really like about mass timber is its reusability, and I found something pretty interesting on your website and I watched the video that you guys did with DCI on the Timberview 3 project, and in there a gentleman said something along the lines of there are those who can do things well and there are those who can do good things, and sometimes you find rare people in teams that do both, and so I wanted to ask you guys about the Dodge Community Church project and how Mass Timber played a role in that.

Speaker 1:

Actually, the Dodge Community Church is a mile or two down the road from where we're sitting right now. We got to drive past it on the way up here and it's super cool to be able to see that project and where it's come. Remember the first time I saw that little building, actually on actual rocks Posts from the building were sitting on rocks, not on Russ and I have had the pleasure of doing a couple of projects there, but unfortunately, in 2020, the fires at Riddled Oregon burnt that structure down. We were blessed enough to have the resources to be able to partner with that church to rebuild it, and rebuild it using mass timber and not only mass timber, but mass timber that we had used in the past on a project and been able to essentially reclaim and bring into our shop and save for a date when we really needed it. When Dodge Church called, that was the day that we knew what we were supposed to do with that product to help design and build their new structure after such a great loss.

Speaker 2:

And the loss was great. Even, russ, it sounds like that you also had a little bit of a loss with that as well, right?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, this house was built twice First time my sons and I, and then we've been in it for just about a year, and then the same forest fire also took our house as well, and so we got a chance to redo it.

Speaker 2:

What's so powerful about mass timber and the logging and the timber industry is we can stop these wildfires. We can stop these forest fires by having conscious, well thought out, sustainable forest management, just thinning out these forests so they're not so devastating, they don't burn so hot, and then, even as a side note, once these forests do ignite, we can go in and there's a very small time window, but we can go in and harvest these burnt logs and these timbers, sand them down, strip them down and get them back to normal. But yeah, it's a powerful thing. Thank you for sharing that story.

Speaker 3:

So what are you guys working on next? Like what's exciting, you guys?

Speaker 4:

We have several projects coming up I'm trying to think about. I shared about Julie West, which we're super excited about. We have the Redmond Public Safety Building in Redmond, Oregon, and that project is going to have a mass timber CLT walls, floors and roof. We're in the final stages of design on that and that'll be getting built this summer. Enjoying that, we also have the courthouse, which is going to have some mass timber in it, and so we get to partner with Pence on that project.

Speaker 1:

I think that the reality is, like every project, that we do some in different ways. One of the things that we're also doing that I really enjoy is that we're partnering with other companies to bring them into the mass timber market, almost creating competitors for ourselves, which is not how we're setting it up. But the reality is there's a lot of mass timber projects out there and incredible amount of people that will build those structures. We have a project in Bend currently that's getting built by a company that we brought in and mentored on our projects in Portland. We had them on three different projects and taught their team how to do what we do. And then we went to Bend with key players from our team to oversee and continue that mentoring process but have them have their hands on the mass timber and installing. And it's a unique thing because and it's a lot of fun as well just to see that growth in the mass timber industry and to be training, you know, the next generation is a lot of fun as well To even see on that same project there's another subcontractor who has installed Mass Timber and they were asking the team that we're mentoring, like, how do you make this go so seamless?

Speaker 1:

Like, how is this all just fitting up? We didn't have that experience when we did it and we, you know, kind of raise our hand hey, you have to start early. You don't just show up and do this, you have to plan for it. It takes a lot of effort. When you put in that effort and you can come in early and help the design, you can make a super smooth, beautiful project happen very quickly. On that one specific project, there are three companies that all have installed mass timber now that are all experiencing that from different perspectives. It's a lot of fun to see that kind of growth and building those teams, Something that I'm really excited about.

Speaker 2:

I'm glad that you were able to take down your competitive walls. I mean, I think that every single company has to have a wall around them against their competition to stay in business. It's fierce out there, don't get me wrong, but it's so interesting to know that we really are at this tip of the spear for this industry and you can go out there to your direct competition and work well and side by side together and on the same projects together, because there is unreal amount of projects all around us. I mean, kind of reach out your hand and it's probably there, take one for the picking. The point of the story was it's a young industry. Do you find that it'll just be on the job? Training? Are you pulling people from? Are they already existing carpenters?

Speaker 4:

So every project is going to demand some level of wisdom and experience, right. And so where do you inf level of wisdom and experience, right? And so where do you infuse that wisdom and experience? Do you do it after it's designed and when you're trying to erect it, or do you do it when you're designing and modeling it?

Speaker 4:

And so that's where we're investing really heavily is on the front side and taking our experience and wisdom and trying to pour that into the design the first time we build the building, when we build it in the model and put it together, and so then, when it comes out into the field, it has the ability to be set quickly by what we would call more erectors, fully developed carpenters, because they need to know how to rig and handle heavy materials, and so those skill sets are a little bit different and they need to be respected a little differently. A trim carpenter may be able to cut high level of accuracy, but does he know how to pick 10,000 pounds up safely and set it? I think that there's a new era of carpenter that's developing in handling mass timber, which is much more involved in erecting than what we would normally have considered a carpenter in the past.

Speaker 1:

I think to maybe jump off of that, our crew, our primary erecting crew they're all primarily in their early 20s, so we have a pretty young crew, which is fun. Our general foreman is what? 24? And so it's a lot of fun to see a young crew out there come with a lot of energy and a lot of excitement. And then we have our older, more seasoned, artisan style carpenters that are doing constructability review and doing QAQC and in mentoring roles with these younger guys. It's a fun environment to be in. It has its own challenges but as carpenters Russ and I both came into this industry through the field, building buildings ourselves it's fun to see the mentoring of younger generations remembering how it was when we were young or younger seeing how we can do that a little bit differently.

Speaker 3:

What do you tell the next generation when they're coming into this world? What philosophy, what guidance do you give them specifically into installing and designing with heavy mass timber Like? What do you try to impart to them when they join your team?

Speaker 1:

Often out there with the guys on these buildings, especially the more complex ones, and something that I remind our guys about all the time. We're not here just to build a building. The story is bigger than that. We're here for a reason. Each project that reason might be a little bit different, and we're here to find out what that is and to engage it, to participate in the lives of each other, the lives of the other trades and the super, and even interact with the owner when possible, to provide a space that is beneficial to anyone that's going to come to it in the future. We're just wrapping up a school in Seattle and it's it feels like such a blessing to be a part of this structure that's right next to an old building that is going to have a lot of abatement, involved in getting rid of it, and we're giving this clean, beautiful structure to these kids for the future.

Speaker 1:

I've had three or four people that were local to the project that came and worked for us that said, hey, I went to this school like 20 years ago and this is insane, like 20 years ago and this is insane. What uh like for this community to have this style of building is. It says a lot to the community and it's just fun to be a part of that and to to point to our guys like hey, there's going to be kids in this building and your job is to create something that they're going to enjoy and that's going to create an environment for them to learn and to invest in that next generation, even in the buildings that we're building. Part of the mentality that we use in raising up new carpenters and mass timber erectors is that we're doing something bigger than just building a building. We're not here to just line our pockets. Bigger than just building a building. We're not here to just line our pockets. We're here to build the future and to provide in ways that people feel blessed. Really.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think that was a very wise answer and the follow-up question I would have to, that is, who mentored and inspired you guys coming in to instill that philosophy in yourselves?

Speaker 1:

Well, that's an easy answer for me. I'm sitting right next to the guy that taught me to do what I do, so the difference in our hairline- is what he lost is all his trying to teach me what to do, so I think that that's a fun question.

Speaker 4:

So I learned from my dad. So we were partners for I don't know 25 years, Started out when I was 18 working for him, and then my dad's dad was a carpenter as well. It's a generational thing. My son is a partner with us in this business and he's the 24 year old site foreman that has built 30 mass timber buildings. I think.

Speaker 2:

I just think it's fun, it's well, before we jump into our last question where can people find you or connect with you for future business?

Speaker 1:

You can always look at our website at carpentryplusinccom. That is uh. We're also on, uh, also on social media LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram. So those are all places where you can find us and see the work that we do and get a hint at the heart that we do it with.

Speaker 2:

All right, everybody reach out and contact Carpentry Plus there for future needs. And, last but not least least, let's say you have a magic wand in your hand and you can do anything in the world you want to the mass timber industry. What would you change and why?

Speaker 4:

I am actually enjoying the journey. So mass change isn't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for to stay on this ride, enjoy it. Camaraderie that's in this industry. The ability to go fishing with mike up at kensal like that that's cool, I love that. The ability to go fishing with Mike up at Kensal that's cool, I love that. Right Change I'm looking to add is like bread, with this beautiful opportunity to other markets, like for some areas that just are afraid don't know mass timber. I want them to experience it. I want to have an opportunity to participate in that growth and understanding what mass timber can bring and what it looks like. That's a good answer.

Speaker 3:

Well, thank you, gentlemen, for coming on, sharing what you do, sharing why you do it with us and with the audience. I know I really appreciated the conversation. I'm sure Nick did too, so we'll be seeing you around the block. I know we're going to see you guys this summer down in Denver at the conference, and we will be bringing ice cold beers and we'll bring an extra one for Jason to give to you. Thanks for having us guys All right. We'll catch up with you guys later, take care.

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Brady Potts

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Nic Wilson

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