Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts
The "Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts” is a podcast hosted by Brady and Nic, two industry advocates for the field of sustainable construction. In each episode, they interview thought leaders, industry powerhouses, and true supporters of the sustainable building movement. They cover the entire sustainable building spectrum, from forest management to final construction of buildings.
The podcast is designed to educate and inspire listeners about the benefits of Mass Timber. Mass timber is a sustainable building material that has several advantages over traditional materials like concrete and steel. It is strong, lightweight, and renewable, and it can be used to build a variety of structures, from small homes to large skyscrapers.
In addition to discussing the benefits of Mass Timber, Brady and Nic also explore the challenges of sustainable building as a whole. They talk about the importance of forest management, the need for government support, and the challenges of educating both the public and the building industry about the benefits of sustainable building.
The Mass Timber Group Show is a valuable resource for anyone interested in learning more about sustainable building. It is a thought-provoking and informative podcast that will leave you inspired to make a difference.
Here are some of the topics that have been covered on the show:
- The benefits of Mass Timber construction
- The challenges of sustainable building
- Forest management
- Government support for sustainable building
- Educating building industry professionals about sustainable building
The Mass Timber Group Show is available to listen to on a variety of platforms, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and YouTube.
If you are interested in learning more about sustainable building, I encourage you to check out The Mass Timber Group Show. It is a great resource for information, inspiration, and action.
Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts
Tackling Mass Timber's "Missing Middle" w/Tanya Bachmeier & Jake Howe | Cornerstone Timberframes
Cornerstone Timberframes specializes in #MassTimber projects, offering in-house fabrication, finishing, design, and installation capabilities. They focus on the missing middle market segment of 10 to 50,000 square foot projects, aiming to lead the industry in sustainability and innovation.
We sat down with the Tanya Bachmeier (CEO) and Jake Howe (Director of Commercial Sales) from to unpack why they're focused on that project size, how they make Mass Timber accessible and viable for a wide range of projects, and how they engage with clients from the initial stages to provide tailored solutions and ensure project success.
Connect with Tanya Bachmeier on LinkedIn
Connect with Jake Howe on LinkedIn
Looking for your mass timber community? Attend the 2025 Mass Timber Group Summit in Denver Co - Aug 20-22nd!
Ideally, yes, we want to be in the pre-33% CD era, but does that always work? No, I get a lot of calls of hey, we're at ready to issue Stratender, Would this work as fast as ever? Because somebody mentioned it At that point. It's not viable. Like with the grids or established materials, we want to be engaged early, selecting the supplier based off of geography, where you are, what your timeline, what the budget, what the architectural intention is for the project. Obviously, the more input you can have and understanding the project parameters, the better chance you have to make it viable.
Speaker 2:This is the Mass Timber Group Show, where we talk with mass timber experts. I'm Brady, and today I caught up with Tanya Bachmeier, the CEO, and Jake Howe, the Director of Commercial Sales for Cornerstone Timber Frames. They're uniquely positioned to take on that missing middle part of the market those 10 to 50,000 square foot size projects With in-house fabrication, finish, design and install capabilities, plus an amazing network of partners. They've got everything you need for mass timber projects. We talked about why and how they jumped into the industry, what they're uniquely positioned to do and what they see in store for the future of mass Timber, and you can see them both in person at the Mass Timber Group Summit this July 31st to August 2nd down in Denver, Colorado. Check out the link below or head on over to our website to save your spot.
Speaker 2:They're almost gone, so with that, let's get into it, All right? Well, thanks for joining me guys. I really appreciate it. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while, because we've linked up maybe nine, 10 months ago, something like that at this point, and so I really wanted to unpack your guys's journey into the mass timber space and show the world what you guys are doing, Cause I think it's a little bit more of a unique approach than you might see on some of the wavelengths out there about hey, there's this big, crazy hundred thousand square foot building out there, but you guys are taking a little bit of a different approach. Can you tell me how you got into this space and what you guys are focused on?
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. So Cornerstone Timber Frame started out just as a small traditional mortise and tenon hand cut joinery timber frame shop and over the years it evolved into a bigger and bigger timber frame a lot of custom projects, but still all hand-cut joinery details. Until about the 2017, I believe, we got our very first inquiry looking for a CLT and mass timber custom cottage. So that really launched us into the mass timber industry and it got us asking questions and got us doing our research on the different industry manufacturers and it really just started our path.
Speaker 2:And when you first got into like the mass timber space I don't know anything about traditional heavy timber framing, so excuse my ignorance, but it sounds like you also went through like a transition into like 3d design environments and BIM and all that kind of stuff. Can you talk to me about your views on that and automation and how that's kind of played into the mass timber conversation?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'd say that. Well, actually, my dad and my uncle started the company in 1990. And it was in 2015 that my husband, Evan, and I took over the company. Shortly thereafter was when we launched into the automation portion of our company. It was an important part for us because we just really wanted to make sure that we were maximizing our capacity and really our efficiencies. So once we got the automation in place, the capacity of our fabrication shop really increased, and then it was shortly after that that we got that first master inquiry. We also then all launched into more of a more of a refined 3D rendering software where we were able to coordinate our EDX files with our CNC machine. So that's kind of where that transition happened. When we launched into the automation, we also evolved into more automated software for our design process as well.
Speaker 2:How did the team expand during that?
Speaker 3:It was a rapid expansion, for sure. When the automation came in there was definitely some unrest with some of the employees that were really traditional and really wanted to hold on to the timber framing craft. But after that initial shock they really realized that CNC was pretty awesome and it was hyper accurate and it still allowed them to do a lot of the fun tasks that they were doing fire with, you know, using their chisels, making sure everything was perfect and we do still preassemble all of our joinery connections. So they were still able to do a lot of what they found most enjoyable about their jobs, but now just in a less physical way less really heavy saws, less really big hand cutting tools, and they were just really able to enjoy the fun parts of it. So the team in the production shop did ramp up because our capacity ramped up, but more importantly, the overhead, the design team staff, the office staff that's where it also really ramped up because with the added capacity we really wanted to ramp up sales and start filling that capacity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and in the mass timber world you hear a lot of conversations around bottlenecks in fabrication and finish work, which sounds like you guys are perfectly set up for it because you guys have two CNC machines right.
Speaker 3:Well, actually we started initially in the early automation. We had an old Hyundai K2 machine, which we've now sort of subbed out. We in the last two years did a massive expansion at our production facility and we now run a K2 industry that also has a robot drive. So it's a lot more advanced than the older K2 that we were working with prior and it's definitely more accurate and has a huge capacity. We designed it custom to hold a really large glulam beams, knowing that that's something we really wanted to focus on and we really wanted to expand more into the mass timber commercial market. So when we were ordering that unit, we really tried to maximize all of the capabilities of the hum digger.
Speaker 2:And Jake being on the commercial sales side of things for mass timber, how much does your guys' fabrication capabilities play into the conversations that you're having with clients?
Speaker 1:I think it's an important piece. It's not the whole part of the puzzle. I think the knowledge and the connections in the industry obviously are what get you in the door. You talk about bottlenecks. Fabrication obviously is one because, as MassTabber kind of gains attention, you know the big players in the markets, the ones that are going from the Pacific Northwest and to the East, at least in Canada. People know about them and reach out to them direct for their spotlight projects. The big software companies, the institutions, that sort of stuff garnishes the attention and will chew up a lot of the queue for the large producers. So fabrication plays a big part of our position in the market because we have the capability and right now the Hunt Digger wants to chew up more fiber. We got to sell more jobs, so it keeps running at this point.
Speaker 2:You guys can fabricate, obviously for the jobs that you have, but are you taking on any excess capacity coming out from different suppliers? Can you help fill the shortage in their capacities?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we're not actually a cut shop, but when somebody reaches out for a favor and wants us to help them with some of their bottleneck, we're absolutely taking it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good to hear, cause I, like I said before, like I hear time and time again that fabrication is kind of like the final squeeze point in a in a big manufacturing shop, and so like knowing that there's other people that can help alleviate that, or if the producer can spit out billets and you guys can take on that fabrication, it kind of helps the entire system run a little bit better. So, from fabrication, you guys take the pieces in, you cut them, you put them all together where they need to go. But then what's unique with you guys? You guys also finish it where you have the capability to finish it and give it that architectural look before it goes out onto the project. And that's not something that you see a lot in the mass timber industry. Why did you guys decide to take that approach?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, it's something that's always been really important to us, especially something that started in the early years of the just the traditional timber prairie shop that we had.
Speaker 3:We, I noticed a need in the market for pre-finishing.
Speaker 3:Applying first sanding thoroughly and then applying a three-coat system to the timbers prior to sending them out to site was something that a lot of our clients were asking for, and I found that you could be just exponentially more efficient in doing it prior and you can really do a much more thorough and complete job of it if you can work with it on soft horses.
Speaker 3:So it's something that I started doing in evenings and weekends and just started a bit of a side project to take this on for clients that were looking for it, but it slowly became that I'd say now virtually all of the projects that we send out the door have a pre-finish on them, and something that we as Cornerstone, as a company, spend a lot of time and energy in and take a lot of extra care in doing, just because I think for us, when a project goes out and it doesn't weather well, or if it does sit out longer than intended, we want to have it protected and we want to make sure that at the end of the day, the client's getting a really beautiful, architecturally pleasing end result. So we found that applying the three-coat Sanson system to the mass timber beams as well as the traditional timber beams, or just shipping them out, really helps achieve that.
Speaker 2:What would you say to people that would object to pre-finishing because it's going to get bumped up, dinged or whatever in transport and installation? How do you address that?
Speaker 3:surface they'll finish, so we're not so concerned about the little dings and scuffs. It's something that's easily repaired on site and certainly much, much simplified to touch up a few spots here and there rather than trying to take on the entire scope after the fact. So, especially when you're looking to change the actual coloration of the fiber, it's definitely something that needs to be done ahead of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and so you have a lot of different coordination. It sounds like you're working all the way from the suppliers, all the way to the end client. Tell me about your team. What kind of players are you bringing together to make these mass timber buildings come together?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, like everybody on the podcast talks about, the collaboration early on with mass timber projects is key. So it's a part. When we were journeying into the mass timber world. We really wanted to find where our place was in the market. We wanted to be part of the sustainability solution and we wanted to make sure that we were serving our clients as best we could. So we were. We just found that, with the fabrication piece that we can provide, with the installation piece we can provide, and then with the design team that we have in place, we have a lot of the parts and pieces, but there's a few other things that are required to make for a successful mass timber process. So we've really focused on also just creating some great relationships with other members of the industry architects, engineers and what we like to do is just really take on a project and assess it and understand what the requirements are and bring together the best possible team for each project and make sure that it gets executed smoothly. It gets executed smoothly.
Speaker 1:I'll add to that. I asked Brady you sent me the list and I was asking Tanya, how would you answer this question? And she's like you know. The way I would describe it is we're kind of the glue that binds it all together. And I looked at her. I was like you do realize what you just said. She's like we're dealing with glue, I am and she's like no, like, if you build that good team, you all bond and create a real strong network for project execution and at the end of the day, that's what we all want is, when it comes to making Mass Timber accessible, it needs to be, you know, done, right and profitable for all parties involved. And if you build a good team, who know the key?
Speaker 2:components and what the stakeholders are after. It does so much for the finished product. Yeah, that's a great answer and I think inside of that, when you're talking about putting together a team and you're addressing all the stakeholders' needs inside of that team and that obviously includes the client not all teams specialize in the same things or have the same level of expertise in all areas. So, like, where are you guys really focusing right now for mass timber specifically?
Speaker 1:I think you kind of alluded to it and I hear you know the buzzword of missing middle in the total market segment. I think for us there is a lot of traction towards these mega projects. You know we're all aware of the ascents and what's going on in british columbia, brock, holland, was. You know, the poster child that I'd who up like when I first came into the general contracting and construction learning about these mass timber projects and I was like I only wish we could get that in our market. And there's a joke in manitoba. Everything is 15 years behind and it truly is, and we're slowly starting to get the adoption here.
Speaker 1:We're bad at code as many people do. We're still 2020 NBC. We don't have the progressive incentives for development and adoption of the new code. So I think the way that we see ourselves within the market is positioned well to execute the 10 to 50 or 60,000 square foot projects and do them really well. Does that mean we'll do it forever? Who knows? You never know growth potential and where you go. But right now we have a sweet spot. We know where we're at and we have a really good team who can do that. So that's kind of our target market.
Speaker 2:Is there been any catalyst projects for you guys that kind of really showcase that type of project?
Speaker 1:I mean the first one and the most notable one we've done would have been Bergen Gardens we did in 2022. And that was a well-established team. We used bird construction. It was a mass timber leader in Canada and then we partnered with Nordic as well, and that was a six-story, 120,000 square foot elderly caravan. So it was driven by the owner, though the owner advocated and believed in it before the market had adopted it. So it's interesting when that happens, where it's not industry standard and people are looking at it as a viable option. The owner pushed for this project to go mass timber and without that owner it wouldn't have gone mass timber, at that time at least.
Speaker 2:So I imagine you're having conversations with different folks Before we hit record. You're talking east coast to west coast, a little bit north to south. Are you seeing any trends in conversations with these clients?
Speaker 1:I think overall the trends that we're seeing is there's a lot of interest. People are aware of it now, both from sustainability criteria. People want to build good, strong projects that don't hurt the resources that we rely on, and I've worked in commercial construction and in steel and concrete for several years and the strength and durability is second to none in some of those applications, whether it's cast in or precast or pre-engineering structural steel buildings. But the sort of the feeling you get in a mass timber building and what it does for future generations and building to last long, it's this belief in the mass timber market that this is the way of the future and you get so many people who care and are super passionate about their work coming into this space because they feel that as the energy progresses, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you touched on something is almost like you're teeing me up for my next question, but you talked about people coming into work that are super passionate about what they do. I think you talk to any business owner. It doesn't matter if you're in the construction industry or not Like sometimes the conversation is very much so lean towards. It's really hard to find top talent and to retain top talent and provide, like, the solution that you need to to attract those kinds of people. And I'll be a little bit biased because we're on the conversation, but I've met a lot of the Cornerstone team. Well, I shouldn't say a lot. I've met some of you guys in person and I would say, Tanya, you've done a great job at collecting those kinds of people who are skilled, who are passionate. So my question for you is how are you doing that? How are you providing that work environment that attracts people into this space?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean for us. We recognize that the team is everything to us. The people are vastly more important than any other piece that brings us together. Without the team that we have, none of this is possible. So we actually spend a ton of time and energy in creating and cultivating a positive work culture, and it's something that is very important to us, and we do everything we possibly can to make sure that we're really understanding and utilizing the strengths of each individual, positioning them in a place where they feel like they are really able to execute their best skills and feel like they are doing something that they enjoy and that is worthwhile, and feel just empowered at the end of the day. So it's something that we continually work on. Obviously, there's always things that we can do better, but we really focus on it and we really make it a priority for us.
Speaker 2:No, that's a great answer. And Mass Timber is still quote unquote like pretty new. And so are you finding people coming into Cornerstone is like hey, I'm here to work on mass timber or I've worked with timber before. Or are they just people from, like, the general construction industry, like, where are you finding your talent at?
Speaker 3:Well, we're. We're located in a pretty small town, so we I mean, we've been absolutely blessed to have such an amazing crew come together, and some come from a bit further away than others, but I would say that a lot of people actually hear about our company through the other employees that are already here and want to be a part of it, and that's something that's really special, and I think that is something that really really helps us keep going, because we know that you know something, something special is happening here, something exciting is happening here, and people want their friends to be working here as well. So it's just, it's been really, uh, a gift for sure another great answer.
Speaker 2:I think if you have employees telling other people to come work at the same place, like that's a good sign, because if you didn't have that kind of company culture it would. It would definitely be the opposite. Right, shifting gears a little bit from employees to the to the business level In my conversations I hear a lot of there's no GCs, there's no installers that can work, that can or want to work with mass timber in these quote unquote smaller markets. Why did you decide to get into mass timber and like what advice would you have for other people that might come from, like the heavy timber background or construction in general, about the decision making process for you to get into mass timber?
Speaker 1:That's a good question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fantastic. I'd say that for us, when we had that first inquiry and we really had to start doing our research, we just fell in love with the idea of using such a sustainable material, a material that was so engineerable, and we could just see the shift starting to happen. Even back in 2017, we really felt like the mass timber world is going to explode and it's where we want to be. We want to be at the front of that. So we really started to focus on that. We just wanted to position ourselves in a place where we would be able to sort of be leading that charge, and we've feeling of every challenge we come up against, we want to use it as an opportunity to learn, and we approached natural traditional to reframing with that mindset, and we look at mass chamber in the same way. We're excited to learn about new connection details. We're excited to learn about different ways, uh architectural designs that are coming out. It's absolutely it's amazing and exciting and we just were so excited to be part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great philosophy to have, and like to always be seeking out the what's new, what's better. How can we continuously improve? Because sometimes, for better or for worse, like some people are like, this is just the traditional way we've been doing it and you know this is our lane. But I think, specifically in this industry as you would probably say so too like if you're adopting the innovations that are coming out, like you're positioning yourself pretty well, but in order to get that knowledge, you got to learn from somewhere, right. Like if it's new and exciting and it's innovative, you got to learn it from somebody else. Like, where are you guys educating, getting your educational resources from for your team?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, we're lucky enough to have access to some of the grandfathers in the North American industry.
Speaker 1:Obviously, we have an amazing working relationship with Nordic Structures and we engage them a lot for things that are out of our comfort level and we know that they have a team of unbelievable timber engineers who have creative solutions and any problem or obstacle we bring to bound, there's always it's met with a positive outlook, that kind of you scratch your head and say they know that like they're ready to figure this stuff out, where sometimes you might, uh, they're like perfect, here's the case study.
Speaker 1:Here's an example of where we did it in this environment in a pool, in an arena, single span, like doesn't matter what we bring to them. They say like here's the case study. Here's an example of where we did it in this environment in a pool, in an arena, single span, like doesn't matter what we bring to them. They say like here's something that you can build off of. Let's digest, digest this together. Here's a solution, let's work together, which is, you know, that's that open, a sharing of previous lessons learned from projects and historics. Like in other competitive markets it's not as free flowing as the information. So we are lucky enough to have good connections, who are willing to help teach us so that we can keep doing the work at the level that they would expect it and keep the industry moving forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another thing that I always hear is like the mass timber industry is looked at internally, looked at as like this is the industry that we're elevating. It's not x company out competing y company. It's like how can we compete as an industry in the construction space? And that collaborative nature is something that's just echoed time and time again. So you guys have the people that you can lean on and learn from. You've got fabrication, you got a great team, you got a design team. You can pre-finish, you can install, and if you don't have the pieces, you got a network you can lean on and learn from. You've got fabrication, you've got a great team, you've got a design team. You can pre-finish, you can install, and if you don't have the pieces, you've got a network that you can connect them. So it's kind of got like the holistic package, if you will. When you're looking, when clients are calling you, when do you want to engage with them during their process? Like, are you there from? Like, hey, I like.
Speaker 1:Where do we want to be? Or where do you often get fulfilling calls? I mean ideally, yes, we want to be in the pre 33% CD era, but does that always work? No, I get a lot of calls hey, we're at ready to issue for tender. Would this work as fast timber? Because somebody mentioned it At that point. It's not viable, like the grids are established and materials are. Or would this work as fast as ever? Because somebody mentioned it At that point, it's not viable, like the grids are established and materials are selected.
Speaker 1:We want to be engaged early, selecting the supplier based off of geography, where you are, what your timeline, what the budget, what the architectural intention is to the project. Obviously, the more input you can have and understanding the project parameters, the better chance you have to make it viable. So call us early. We'd love to have a conversation. Most of the time you know it's it's, we'll tell you it doesn't work, and sometimes it goes that direction. Or we'll say this person might be better suited for that work. And no problem, cherry reads that's. I mean. We get it from all the big players too. They'll say we've got a full plate. Want to take a small to medium project? Great, we'll pass the big one on when it comes. It's obviously we'd like to be involved early, but I still get tenders across my desk that are a little late for us to be involved. That being said, you know still shoot them our way.
Speaker 2:We'd love to see the design get a little inspiration and and hey, if it. Like you said, if somebody contacts you and they're in that later stage and it's not going to work, that doesn't mean it's not going to work the next time when they know to come to you earlier. Right From building the first mass timber building in 2017 to now, you know that's eight years if I can math correctly. You guys have done a lot right. You're working on buildings. You've kind of set up your entire team to be very mass timber friendly. What's next for you guys?
Speaker 3:projects that would have loved to have gone mass timber but just couldn't because they didn't know where to start, they didn't know how to pull the team together to make it happen and they just they ended up going to a different construction method because it just didn't make sense for them at the time. We want to start capturing more and more of those, because the more projects that can move to mass timber, the bigger piece that we can play for the industry to move forward. So I think that's probably the key thing for us is just starting to capitalize on more of those projects so we can see more move to mass timber.
Speaker 2:Another great answer. So before I ask my last question where can people reach out and connect with you guys?
Speaker 1:We're both on LinkedIn very active. I mean the whole mass timber community is active. We get a lot of inspiration. We make a lot of connections on LinkedIn, so you can find both of us there. You can shoot me an email.
Speaker 2:All right. Last question, and I'll pitch this one to you first Jake, if you had somebody in an elevator for 30 seconds and you had to tell them about Mass Timber, what would you say?
Speaker 1:Wow, 30 seconds. Okay, well, are they in construction or not?
Speaker 2:You don't know. You don't know. I ask you what you do, and you say I work in Mass Timber. And they say what's that?
Speaker 1:That's great. I think it would be about the spirit of Mass Timber, the community as a whole. I would explain how passionate people are about building something that's built well and built for longevity. In a world of fast use, disposal items, we're creating something that is from a reusable resource and, if it's done right, it really is a marvel in the construction industry. So that would be my elevator pitch.
Speaker 2:Would you have anything to?
Speaker 1:add to that Tanya.
Speaker 3:I think he said it well. I think just that. Yeah, we're looking at a more long-term way of building. We're seeing the shift in the construction industry and we're just wanting to be a part of that sustainability and wanting to be a part of a shift that is going to move to better building.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, those are both great answers. I think one of the things that people struggle with a lot and I know this is something I struggle with when somebody says what do you do? And I say I do something with mass timber, and they say, what's that? It's like a scramble moment to try and are you in construction? Are you not in construction? And so I always like to see how people are like communicating the message, because I think the more conversations we can have about mass timber with other people and bring them into the know, the better it's going to be for everybody. So thanks for sharing those. That's all I had for today. I wanted to thank you guys for joining us. I'm excited to see you guys, but well, by the time this episode comes,
