Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts

CLT Plants, Glulam & the Jaw-Dropping PDX Airport - The Latest w/Timberlab

• Brady & Nic

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Discover how Timberlab is redefining the mass timber industry and how their pioneering work at Portland International Airport is leading the way. With Chris Evans and Sam Dicke as our expert guides, we explore the innovative construction of the airport's expansive 400,000 square foot roof, built entirely from locally sourced mass timber. Uncover the lengths they've gone to in order to ensure sustainability, from tracking timber origins to utilizing some of the longest curved glulam beams in the nation. This episode promises to illuminate the cutting-edge practices that make this project a landmark achievement for the Pacific Northwest.

Unearth the significant environmental and economic benefits that mass timber offers as a sustainable alternative to traditional materials like concrete and steel. Evans and Dicke share how Timberlab's strategic use of small diameter logs from forest thinning operations not only supports local economies but also mitigates wildfire risks. The synergy of diverse stakeholders, ranging from forest landowners to urban designers, highlights how collaborative efforts can foster healthier, more sustainable environments. Learn about the initiatives to tackle urgent ecological challenges such as wildfire smoke and sand consumption, positioning mass timber as a pivotal resource for the future.

Finally, we delve into Timberlab's strategic acquisition of American Laminators, a move that solidifies their market position and revitalizes rural communities hit by sawmill closures. This integration of design, fabrication, and production offers a seamless, cost-effective experience for clients while expanding Timberlab's reach. Through exciting advancements and industry collaborations, Timberlab is set to transform traditional construction methods, making mass timber a formidable competitor in the building industry. Join us as we celebrate the innovative spirit driving Timberlab's growth and its impact on sustainability and community development.

Looking for your mass timber community? Attend the 2025 Mass Timber Group Summit in Denver Co - Aug 20-22nd!

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean there was a whole track and trace program developed by ZGS and in coordination with Hoffman, skanska and Timberlab to basically trace the forest's origin. And so when Curtis, the director of the Port of Portland, goes in and walks you through the building and points up the skylight B, he can say I know specifically that this lumber came from this land, because that's how specific they got to tracking and tracing the material but taking these things with with minimal processing and being able to put them into that structure and then use them both for the structural and aesthetic benefit.

Speaker 2:

I think that really points to, on any project with mass timber, that efficiency of it, you're you not only storing carbon but you're also offsetting this whole secondary manufacturing of other components that would have to come in and do that aesthetic work.

Speaker 3:

This is the Mass Timber Group Show. I'm Nick.

Speaker 4:

And I'm Brady and we talk to mass timber experts. Today we caught up with Chris and Sam from Timber Lab. If you don't know who these guys are or what Timber Lab is doing, prepare to be impressed.

Speaker 3:

Timber Lab is wrapping up work on one of the most high-profile mass timber projects in America, the Portland International Airport, grand opening happening August of 2024. Plus, they are now breaking ground on a brand new CLT production facility.

Speaker 4:

But that's not all. They also acquired American Laminators, a legacy glulam manufacturer and it's going to bring the entire mass timber experience under one roof. And we unpacked it all. So make sure to stick around to get the full scoop. But before we jump in, the biggest issue the mass timber industry faces right now is awareness and education, and that's what this podcast is for. When you subscribe, more people see it. When more people see it, more people collaborate. And when more people collaborate, more projects get built. Help, more mass timber projects get built by hitting subscribe. So with that, let's get into it.

Speaker 2:

Hi, I'm Chris Evans with Timberlab.

Speaker 1:

And hey guys, I'm Sam Dickey. I'm the client development manager for Timberlab.

Speaker 4:

Got it Well. Thank you guys both for being here. This is round two for Chris. This is round one for you, sam. We're coming off the back of our conference, where everybody got to get together and celebrate mass timber. But today we kind of want to celebrate what you guys are doing, because you guys have some big announcements many in fact. But first I want to kind of touch on the most timely aspect, which is the opening of the Portland International Airport, which is a huge mass timber project you guys have been working on for a long time. What can you guys tell us about what's happening and how that journey went?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, chris, you want to go. You've been involved with it, you can go for it. Awesome, yeah. So we're really excited we're sitting here on August 7th the grand opening is actually next week for a project that we've been involved with for the last five, six years. I mean. We've been working on this for a long time. The Port of Portland has been working on this for even longer, but it's a new. You can kind of see a sliver of it behind, chris there. It's a new 400,000 square foot roof structure made entirely out of locally sourced mass timber from the Pacific Northwest, which is really amazing, including the longest curved glulam beams in the United States. They're just over 80 feet long mass plywood panels from Ferris down in Lions, oregon, which is awesome. It's a beautiful project that's really going to showcase what's possible in mass timber and really be an amazing entrance for people coming into the Pacific Northwest and, like we said, we've been involved with it for the last couple of years, seen it through completion, now phase one, and excited to see it open to the general public.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're actually pretty stoked. I mean, next week it's going to be awesome to get out there for an opening party and I think people are just going to be flying into Portland just to come hang out at the airport, as odd as that seems, but it's going to be a pretty over-the-top experience for people and pretty fantastic landmark to have here to welcome people to the state.

Speaker 1:

The other thing to Chris's point is you know that. What then? To the credit of the airport? You know they put a lot of the amenity services before the security. You guys flew into the old international Portland International Airport. You notice that a lot of those amenities were before security. They're doing that again. So the joke in the train in Portland actually runs to the airport. So the joke is that people will actually have date nights at the Portland airport. You know, take the Max in, go to Loyal Legion, one of the best bars in Portland. They're going to have a location up there. There's some great restaurants Prasa and Bordeaux. You know, shop at Nike, go to the Pendleton store and then, you know, take the train home.

Speaker 4:

We've been flying in there for several years now, so we're excited to kind of see the whole thing of what you guys have been working on and there's been. There's been a lot of press, a lot of coverage and everybody kind of looks at PDX as like this big, beautiful spotlight project. I'm curious if you guys have any lessons learned, like unique things that you experienced during this project that maybe hasn't got as much attention, that you thought was just like really cool or just a very exceptional piece that your team helped put together.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think there's many of them. This project. What it really highlights is the act of pre-planning work and how, if you pre-plan work, you can really do amazing things. I think when the first plan came out to move these 20,000 square foot modules across the tarmac and fly them into place above the existing structure, it seemed a little bit crazy and like someone's fantastic vision. But to see that come out in real life and be achievable and see I think Skanska Hoffman had just exceptional A-plus teams ZGF, kpff, the port they all had just very great people on the project. And I think it shows that if you staff a project with the right people, sit down and pre-plan that work, then you can harness some of the power that mass timber has.

Speaker 2:

And what I love about mass timber is the act of detailing. Every piece really is forcing you to pre-plan the work. That's what it's doing. Every piece really is forcing you to pre-plan the work. That's what it's doing. And when you pre-plan the work you can put it in place. Less safety incidents, it goes in place faster, everybody knows what they need to be doing. And I think that's really what this benefit of mass timber is is it's forcing the industry to a place where they're seeing using building information, modeling as the secret sauce to help, you know, build better and safer projects. So to me that's a lesson learned. That wasn't from a mistake, necessarily, but from that, from the really good pre-planning from the project teams. Obviously any other you know, any project you do there's, there's a hundred things you learn with that you would do better. But I walk out saying what an amazing project team to have this vision, see it and really come and do it in a safe way. It's been pretty awesome.

Speaker 1:

And one thing that I think really resonates with me. As Chris says, there's a million lessons learned, right, and it's a massive project we've been involved with, everyone's been involved with for such a long time. But to me it's the testament the port of Portland, the airport, actually made to locally sourced, sustainable timber. I mean that's such an amazing part of the story that I mean has really been a driving force for the airport and for every member of the team for the last decade or so was to utilize locally sourced material. And if you guys remember, I mean we were building this project in the heart of the COVID-19 pandemic when wood prices, I mean I know, I remember we're going.

Speaker 1:

It was a wild world. And the port doubled down on that commitment to say, hey, we're going to use these 11 landowners from within 150 miles of the project site to really showcase what's possible on a sort of a farm to table a seedling, to structure approach. And I mean ultimately we sourced there's over 35,000 pieces of local two by six lattice used in the project. That was all sourced from the immediate Pacific Northwest region, from Oregon and Washington, which is really just an amazing testament to the board doubling down on that.

Speaker 3:

I hope that you were going to unpack that on the specific quantities of like, all the dimensional lumber that went into it as well. I know, taylor, she just got done speaking at a keynote speaker at the Mass Timber Group Summit and she started talking about that a little bit and just reminded me of all the planning and what went through that. I know you've probably kind of talked about this a lot, but for the people that don't know what are some of those specific numbers, I know that there's a really cool story, like on the succession of like how they were installed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how do you want it? Do you want it in board feed or cubic? Because I was pulling it up while we were docking.

Speaker 3:

Well, I'm a stupid American so I don't know anything but board fees.

Speaker 1:

Well, I got a couple of stats for you here and this is a courtesy of the team at Timberlab, but was over 842,000 board feet. Like I said, the lattice had something like 40,000 pieces, but there were 35,000 pieces that actually ended up making it into the project, so just a phenomenal amount of wood in the roof structure, which is pretty pretty amazing to see.

Speaker 3:

There was one thing that are you putting it together where all right one family company, or saw together where all right one family company? Or sawmill says all right, here's a couple hundred thousand board feet and then there's like sections, so you almost have like stories like as you go through. Wasn't that right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean there was a whole track and trace program developed by ZGS and in coordination with Hoffman, skanska and Timberllab to basically trace the forest's origin. And so when Curtis, the director of the Port of Portland, goes in and walks you through the building and points up to the skylight B, he can say I know specifically that this lumber came from this land, because that's how specific they got to tracking and tracing the material, which is so fundamentally different to how we think about the timber industry in this country traditionally, and it's amazing to kind of showcase what's possible.

Speaker 2:

I think the other thing too is just on the overall aesthetics and efficiency of the aesthetics. With the structural system, part of the beauty is their alternative for the lattice was to use a whole secondary manufactured system, a drop ceiling of faux wood stuff that's really not a naturally processed, it's not a natural material. And so when you think about it, taking that aesthetics, using the aesthetic value of the timber, but also using that in a structural capacity, is really, I think, efficient from a cost standpoint but also like just a material usage standpoint of not needing. I would look at like with food, right, if you eat whole foods like bananas and apples and nuts and everything, it's way different than having highly processed food. And I look at that drop ceiling that would have gone in as this highly refined donut, using all these products coming in to make this. It might look good and taste good.

Speaker 1:

Well, that actually sounds delicious, Chris, but you know what does that sound?

Speaker 2:

like, but taking these things with minimal processing and being able to put them into that structure and then use them both for the structural and aesthetic benefit. I think that really points to on any project with mass timber, that efficiency of it you're not only storing carbon but you're also offsetting this whole secondary manufacturing of other components that would have to come in and do that aesthetic work, and I think there's just huge value in that. And this is like a showcase of this. The alternative to this ceiling was a dropped faux wood ceiling was a dropped faux wood ceiling. I think ZGF and the port looked at hey, let's go use natural materials that are already coming from our forests instead of trying to go import in a secondary manufactured process highly refined product into the job. So I think that's a pretty neat story.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I love the like you said how they're incorporating all those different pieces and you're sourcing all the different wood components from the forest, which kind of tees us up and segues into the second part of the conversation, which you guys are now breaking ground on your own CLT production facility. Tell me about that decision process. How's it going? What's it's to advance the mainstream adoption of?

Speaker 2:

mass-travel To do that. We've always looked at what are those next pinch points in the industry and how do we help alleviate those pinch points. Adding CNC capacity and being able to process glulam and make those into components for buildings a huge step to help alleviate pinch points and lower the total cost of the building. We're seeing when we look out two, three years out, clt supply will become that next pinch point in the marketplace. We've thought through this for a number of years, for three years, of the pros and cons of doing it and got to a place where we said, yeah, the timing's right, the market's there and we're at a place to really invest in this part of the industry, to help grow this part of the industry. And that's been our focus. It'll continue to be our focus to take away those pinch points.

Speaker 2:

That's going to be located just south of Portland, about one hour south of Portland, in Millersburg, super excited for that, for what it will do for that local community. It will give, you know, the West Coast. Really it's, you know, i-5 corridor, the only CLT plant in the I-5 corridor and I think that that's very important to making CLT more affordable, more locally available, especially to those West Coast markets. So we're really excited on it. We expect to break ground. You break ground in the fall. We're probably September, october on breaking ground. So we're really excited for that day to come and to be moving that project forward.

Speaker 1:

This is really the natural evolution of TumorLab and the ethos that we try to bring to every project that we've been involved with. We originally started essentially as an install outfit that has grown into design assist and engineering assistance. We opened our fabrication facility in 2021 because that was a major pinch point, as Chris was saying, in the market to get fabricated glulam delivered to site, and so we expanded into South Carolina because we saw a massive opportunity on the East Coast helping to build the mass timber industry out East. And I think this step further back in the supply chain is just the ultimate evolution of becoming a more vertically integrated mass timber park.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Are you guys able to talk specifics on? Tell us what you're looking at for your press, the species of wood you're trying to look for geographic markets that you think you're going to serve more than others. What's it look like inside the factory? And then where you, where you plan on putting this stuff?

Speaker 2:

We're in a great Douglas fir timber basket and have some other species available in that market, but primarily Douglas fir and I I think you know there's more than ample supply. I think you know the the the sawmilly market has been, I'd say, a little bit depressed and numbers pretty flat. We've seen a lot of mill closures with that and we've seen pressure coming off log pricing, just overall, that supply not being a concern to satisfy the mass timber market In the whole saw and lumber industry. The demand from the mass timber market's still pretty small with respect to that whole industry and so we really like to work in because of its rich history of having great fiber with the Douglas fir tree in that market. That will be the core of what that panel is.

Speaker 2:

But we'll offer lots of different visual opportunities for SPF panels, southern Yellow Pine face panels, hemlock face panels to give clients different aesthetic, to fulfill different aesthetic needs that a client might have. Yeah, so that's that you know. Annually we'll get to a place where what I'll call the real capacity is not the fictional absolute capacity of the plant but what can this plant really produce at the end of the day when you take in downtime considerations and lunch breaks and all that stuff. We will be at like a three shift 100,000 cubic meter plant. That's what that would be gets to full capacity. That's exciting. That's a great addition to the supply chain and we think that that's really going to continue to help make projects more affordable, lower the cost, the total cost of what the mass timber frames are.

Speaker 3:

People are a little bit nervous, they're a little scared. Out there it's like we're going to run out of trees. So what would you say to them? I mean, there, it's like we're going to run out of trees, so what would you say to them? I mean, I personally, I'm the. The way is forest management. If we want to save our forest, but for the, for more of, like, the lay person where they don't understand, maybe the where it come from and where it's getting sourced from, is it coming in locally? And then did you have to partner with somebody to actually get all this?

Speaker 2:

fiber. Yeah, I mean we have great relationships with all the sawmills in Oregon and in Washington, some in Northern California. I mean, in general, oregon forests are growing more fiber than harvesting every year. We are not only growing more fiber, but we've probably taken our eye off the management of, like federal forests. They're getting thicker, they're becoming different forests than they were hundreds of years ago. They're forests that have lots of small trees and need to have, you know, thinning operations that occur there. Nice thing about clt is clt is not using like really high grade fiber, it's using what you would go buy at Home Depot or Lowe's the number two, number three material.

Speaker 3:

It's small diameter logs too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, two by four, two by six, two by eight.

Speaker 2:

Those are all small diameter logs that you can, you know, technically get from thinning operations. So when the alternative is concrete and steel and you have to look at what that alternative is, the buildings will get built, but they'll get built with an alternative method that has high emissions for carbon. There is a way, like if everybody partners, that we can do better for our forests have better natural places for our families to go on the weekend and be able to support that. Better fish habitat for salmon and steelhead to come up streams in better forests in general, while also reducing wildfire and the and the public health concerns that you'll get from that with the smoke and everything, um, from just living you know, living in oregon and dealing with the smoke. It's it's a big issue and fires are a big issue. So this can be part of the solution, and having more demand for this lower diameter tree is important and I think it's an important part of the solution that we all face and we all have to work together to solve.

Speaker 1:

So, nick, I love this question. I think about where the tumor is going to come from and just fundamentally, I think it strikes at a chord. There's so much collective trauma, I think, in the United States, and particularly in the Western United States, around forestry and logging, just because of the timber wars that occurred in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s. And I'm not saying that Nass Timber is a panacea for all the problems with forest ecological and environmental health, but it certainly provides an opportunity to, as Chris was just outlining, you know, provides a solution to pull out trees that are acting as ladder fuels in overstacked forests, particularly on federal forest lands.

Speaker 1:

I don't know about you guys, but you know it's been a particularly smoky summer and you know, in Denver I was thinking at the event at the view house, I was like man, that's a pretty hazy bulb in the sky right there that was coming off of the six fires that were burning in the front range last week and thank god we got a little bit of rain kind of cool it down. But that's a problem that continues to exist and I think mass timber provides what we like to call a co-environmental and economic benefit, which is allowing for an outlet for the this timber that ch was just outlining the smaller diameter trees that are the mid-range, the mid-age species that we're going to essentially pack our forest with more fuel that will ultimately get burned up and provides an outlet for them to actually bring a product to market that is sustainable and is environmentally friendly, especially when you compare it to the carbon output of concrete steel.

Speaker 3:

The blessing in disguise with these tragic wildfires is it shows people that there needs to be change. A statistic that just dumbfounds me. I can't believe that we're consuming 50 billion tons of sand annually, and it's our riverbeds and it's our oceans. It's not the Sahara deserts. The way that they were eroded away is like a little ball and they don't lock into place and so it's just. We would all be happy and joyous, but we can't use that. But we have to go mine our rivers and it's causing serious damage. And this is just about moving the needle from 99.9% traditional building to 95% 90%. You know, totally like where education is.

Speaker 1:

All I is, all I can say I'm trying to cream from the mountaintop well, y'all are doing a great job, that's, that's for sure, and you know, posing events like last week and things like this podcast, I think, go a long way.

Speaker 1:

What I can say is that you know your efforts are not in vain, because the mass timber movement has really shifted the direction of the conversation. I think and you know what I think Chris and I can both speak to, having conversations both with forestry landowners, the most conservative people small C conservative people in the world, out there in the back country, three hours from Portland, who are harvesting timber, and the most urban architects you could imagine who are designing these buildings. Mass timber is bringing those people into the same room to have a shared dialogue and conversation around what's best for our cities and what's best for our environment, because ultimately, what everyone's trying to do is reduce our environment and build and move natural materials that support local economies and protect our natural resources like Chris was just saying for our families and for our friends who use those for recreation and for other reasons as well.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's a great way to summarize it, sam, and in the mass timber world we talked about this a lot like you got to bring all the players together and you got to have everybody on board early so that all these decisions and the various suppliers and partners can come together and all be on the same page. On that note, you guys are not only breaking ground on a CLT facility, but you guys also made some glulam company acquisitions to kind of like bring all of that together under one timber lab roof. Can you tell me about the acquisition?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely we're. I mean, you know we spent a few years really looking at, okay, what should we? What should we do next? What should we invest in? We look really long and hard at a Greenfield glulam manufacturing facility designed many of them in that time to spell out what that would be and ultimately I think we found an opportunity where a partnership, an acquisition with American Laminators and American Laminators has been doing work since the late 60s, mid 70s at their two facilities. They have just an amazing staff with some folks on that staff tenured 45 years that they've been in the glulam business. Multiple people, many people over 25, 30 years that had been in the glulam business, understand wood procurement, how to do glulaminated timber. You know really an excellent level.

Speaker 2:

We got to a place where the best and right decision was looking at bringing the American laminators into Timberlab and doing an acquisition there and continues to be the best decision. You know that all officially happened in early and it's been amazing. We have an amazing team there that we're continuing to grow and work with the facilities and help do that. But the two facilities are in rural zones in Oregon. I think that's been pretty cool to integrate ourselves into there, infuse capital help grow those businesses, help, you know, when we see all these sawmills closing.

Speaker 2:

I think this is a good story of coming in and reinvesting in those communities to help them continue to produce for another 60 to 70 years, and that's our goal from it is to come in, gain that expertise Now we have that expertise as a company and then continue to let that go again to that mission of trying to grow the mass timber market, continuing to get the mass timber systems to be lower and lower cost points, especially compared to concrete steel. I think this is another move that really helps us go down that trajectory. So, very excited. I spend probably a lot of my time at those facilities and it's been super fun, it's been rewarding. That's why I wasn't at your event last week is because really focused on that transition and on that business. Yeah Well, we'll catch you next year for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, one thing I was just going to say on that, brady, real quick.

Speaker 1:

One of the things I thought and, chris, to your point, that just kind of blew me away when we sort of found this out, or when I found this out, is that American Laminators had traditionally been one of, if not the largest employer in both of those two communities that they're operating in between Swiss South for Shandrain. And that to me, yeah, exactly when you think about that level of responsibility, because sometimes it feels like, well, we're just one company in Portland doing this little thing called mass timber, trying to change the world, but when you see the tangible impact that a company like this has, and it has had for 50 years, for 60 years, I mean it's pretty remarkable to think. And it's, I mean totally Chris, to your point. It just it hearkens back to the, you know, the reinvestment in American manufacturing. I think Timberlap has said wholeheartedly, we're invested in Oregon. Our manufacturing facility, swiss Elm Drain in Millersburg, continuing to operate in Portland and then, you know, continuing to grow, I think is something that I'm really proud of.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. And and I think you know part of the things that aligned, I think, really well with us. They produce a beautiful product and I think on the quality level, it's just a very they take a lot of time and effort to make just a really good product. At the end of the day, I think that aligned with us really well, like they take that time and care to to make a really good product. They're not just about putting out as much product as they can, they're about putting out a really good product. They're not just about putting out as much product as they can, they're about putting out a really good product. So I think we really that was attractive, you know, because that really aligns with what we're doing with our buildings and trying to do for our clients. It's been a good eight weeks and we are yeah, we're on our two month anniversary today, so it's pretty cool.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's incredible and I think you guys both said everything perfectly. I couldn't add any more to that. My question for you guys is so you talked about the evolution of Timberlab, like from being, you know, starting in the install world and then gradually folding in fabrication and design assist and now CLT production and now glulam acquisitions, like kind of you guys kind of have it all under one roof now. How is that going to change what you guys are able to deliver for clients down the road?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it gives us more control over the process and I think having more control over the process ultimately gets to a place where we're, I'd say, more flexible. We don't have constraints that might be from a third party. With that we can have a more flexible delivery to meet clients or specific project needs. So I think that's a fun aspect of it. So if we were trying to get and source material from a certain timber sale or forest sale, we have dry kilns. We can go get rough green material. We can be really flexible on the way that that material comes in. We can dry it to certain specifications if that's what the project requires. So I think having that flexibility in control is really paramount to providing value. It lowers the cost of production all in all by having more of that vertical integration which ultimately is seen at the consumer level, with our clients and over time.

Speaker 2:

I've said this before but concrete and steel industries have had 100 years to optimize their details supply chain processes, people that have know-how of how to design with it, how to use it, how to install it is people that have know-how of how to design with it, how to use it, how to install it. Mass timber hasn't arguably 13 years into it in North America, but real standards of having people doing it on a repeatable basis over and over and gaining traction in it. It hasn't been that long and there's a great runway of opportunity to continue to reduce the system cost versus other systems just through that optimization. Filling out the supply chain, getting to standardized details, getting more people that have designed with it process become more efficient, helps that whole system cost become lower with respect to other competing systems. And I think that's.

Speaker 2:

We look at the other manufacturers in the space. We don't see any of them as competitors. We see them all as other folks trying to grow this industry. Get to a place where that system cost is, compared to those other competing structural systems, is at or below what those are, and over time it will get to that place. We will get to a place where timber structures are not only aesthetically pleasing, the more sustainable option, but also the most cost-effective option for the solution. And that's what we're working towards and this is just another step in that process. We still have other steps in the process to do, but this is another step in that process to help us, I know that you've moved mountains to get to where you are now.

Speaker 3:

I believe, sam, I heard you say this Doesn't Timber Lab. You've done more square footage of mass timber than anyone in the USs, like design work, or let's just call it your top two or three I don't know if there's a stat I mean I would there's.

Speaker 1:

I mean you could look at other manufacturing. You know, it kind of depends on how you classify that.

Speaker 2:

I don't necessarily say that I mean yes, you look at what structurally I was thinking structurally and nordic way yeah, nordic has done bigger yeah.

Speaker 3:

No, I was almost kind of saying like your, your pre, your design, like all of the projects that you've actually worked on. It's like the T3, rhino and in Denver you know there's a quarter million square feet, and so you keep adding those up and the amount of square feet that you fundamentally helped or designed is unbelievable.

Speaker 2:

I think it's big, but I wouldn't say by any means the biggest or the largest. I guess that'd be probably an overstatement. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I forgive me for misspeaking. I was thinking maybe Masterbird.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean Nick. I mean I think it's fair to say we worked on a lot of projects. There are a lot of great staple projects out there that every manufacturer, every supplier, every different team has kind of worked on. And you know, we're obviously really proud of the ones that we've worked on and the partnerships that we built process. I think by the latest statistic we're somewhere sitting around 6 million square feet is kind of the number that when you add up all the timber that we've installed or worked on.

Speaker 3:

But you know, consider agarene for the age of the industry in the United States.

Speaker 1:

Totally. I mean, I think that's it's awesome to have, for the age of the industry, more competitive. And ultimately, to Chris's point, our competitors are not our partners. They're concrete and steel buildings. And if we can flip concrete and steel buildings if you look at the Rhino neighborhood in Denver or at Slabtown in Portland or any of these developing cities if we can even flip a certain percentage, a small percentage of them, to mass timber, that's going to have a real, intangible impact on both our forest health and our carbon reduction in the economy.

Speaker 3:

I think that's why we're all working.

Speaker 2:

I agree. I mean we've probably spent a lot of time trying to flip jobs from traditional methods to timber, you know, to timber, and those projects are super fun. It's a different challenge and it also is is a highly impactful like we'll go build a timber project that's going to be a timber project all day long. And if our work has helped influence that on the work on the airport or the work on a set has influenced the market to do that, that's great. But we can make a huge impact by changing jobs that are about to be built in steel or about to be built in this.

Speaker 2:

Or take a system like the warehouse we did in Dallas that traditionally would have been a tilt-up building but came in as a CLT-clad building, and if we can influence that market to help change the way that we build, that is what is, I think, truly impactful. Whether we build it or not, having that impact is big and again it goes back to that mission. That's what we're aiming to do. We would like to build a lot of those projects, but we also want to just have the market move to those different methods of building and where we have the most impact over that is how can we do it at a more cost-com cost competitive way. How can we find solutions that are sustainable and work, job after job after job that can help push the market to a better and better price.

Speaker 1:

And I think where, chris, you're getting at is we're trying to grow the whole pie right, and I say we, as the collective industry is trying to grow. I mean personally, one of the best feelings is when you work with a project team architect, engineer, contractor, developer who's never done a mass timber building and then every person on that team goes out and says I'm converting every project I'm doing and that's how you start to change an industry. And you have academic institutions teaching mass timber and we're involved with lots of research development opportunities. We have internship programs where we bring students in to train them in the field. A lot of this hasn't traditionally been taught at school and so it's a lot of on-the-job training.

Speaker 1:

Our CNC team there's no one cutting large format BSCs. You can't go to shop class and see the machines that we have in our shop. So we bring folks in with all sorts of diverse backgrounds and train them and teach them and help them teach others how to use that material. We work with other manufacturers, other fabricators, other suppliers on how to train to use this machinery, all for the betterment of making us more efficient as an industry.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and it's all really exciting. Like you said, we're growing the whole pot right. The rising tide lifts all boats and I'm so excited that you guys share that viewpoint, because it seems like everybody we talk to in the industry does, which means we're all running down the same path right, Pulling the same sled. So thank you guys for coming on sharing your exciting news. We're super happy and excited to watch the plant come online, see the acquisition, and then to see well, by the time this podcast comes out, to look back on all of the PDX opening media, press releases and stuff that has come out. So thank you guys both for being here and I'm sure we'll do round three here soon.

Speaker 1:

Sounds good. Thanks, nick Brady. Thanks so much, appreciate it.

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Brady Potts

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Nic Wilson

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