Mass Timber Group Show: Sustainable Building Experts

Secrets to Seamless Mass Timber Builds w/ Jeremy Crandall & Luke Ringenberg of Lam-Wood Systems

• Brady Potts & Nic Wilson

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How can sourcing the right mass timber products streamline your construction projects and ensure top performance? What strategies do industry leaders use to coordinate between architects, engineers, and suppliers effectively?

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Timestamps:
0:00 – Introduction: Coordinating Between Architect, Engineer, and Suppliers
0:54 – Meet Jeremy Crandall and Luke Ringenberg of Lam-Wood Systems
1:15 – Redefining Mass Timber Distribution from Mill to Job Site
2:25 – Lam-Wood Systems: A Third-Generation Family Business
3:03 – Integrating Design Knowledge into Construction Projects
4:12 – Benefits for General Contractors and Project Owners
5:05 – Managing Multiple Manufacturers for Optimal Project Fit
7:15 – Flexibility in Handling Design Changes and Project Needs
8:26 – Nationwide vs Regional Project Capabilities
9:00 – Enhancing Efficiency with Engineering and Project Management Teams
11:01 – Highlighting the Dharmachan Monastery Project
13:42 – Current Exciting Projects: Schools and Restaurants
16:04 – Market Growth and Expanding Applications for Mass Timber
19:18 – The Role of Smaller Manufacturers and Micro Factories
23:11 – Case Study: Multifamily Project in Boulder
27:30 – Collaboration Among Stakeholders for Sustainable Growth
30:00 – Value Propositions: Aesthetics, Speed, and Performance

Looking for your mass timber community? Attend the 2025 Mass Timber Group Summit in Denver Co - Aug 20-22nd!

Speaker 1:

Right out of the gate they knew that it needed to be coordinated between architect, engineer and suppliers. So on that job we got to utilize most of the tools we have in our belt. We had deep-depth high joists for the crawl space from Redville, you know. For part of that you had LSL studs. You had plated roof trusses for the wooden quarters for the monks and some of the roof was a combination of trusses and LSL wall stones, for example. But the honeypot of that project was the exposed glulam CLT timber and hybrid glulam and HSS columns that were integral to the wild factor of that building and just the way it blends into the landscape. It just pays homage to their nation.

Speaker 2:

How do you make sure you're using the right mass timber product for the right application while keeping costs, performance and constructability dialed in? Today's guests, jeremy Crandall and Luke Ringenberg from Lamwood Systems are here to answer that question. Lamwood is a mill direct sales and distribution company that's redefining how mass timber makes its way from the mill to the job site. Their team works with owners, gcs, designers and installers to match the right product to the project. Jeremy and Luke break down why sourcing mass timber isn't just about price. It's about fit risk mitigation and long-term performance across the entire construction chain. How their in-house design, assist, engineering and project management teams keep projects streamlined while adding value at every stage, from owner's vision to GC execution to manufacturer production. And we unpack some of their standout projects, like the great Dharma Chan Monastery, showcasing how the right sourcing strategy brings complex mass timber designs to life.

Speaker 2:

If you want a behind-the-scenes look at how the smartest teams are leveraging mass timber without overcomplicating it. This episode is for you. But before we dive in, if you're serious about stepping up your mass timber game, networking with the best in the business and having a great time while you're at it, you need to be at the Mass Timber Group Summit this August in Denver. Tickets are already live and we do expect to sell out, so go to masstimbergroup to grab your spot before early bird pricing expires. So with that, let's get into it. So I'm Jeremy Cramble.

Speaker 1:

Luke Ringenberg. We're with Lamwood Systems. We're an engineered wood technical sales and distribution company, and what does that mean? That means we are a representative of multiple different engineered wood manufacturers and we essentially package products to try to get a fully delivered and coordinated project under one umbrella to contractors, framers, owners.

Speaker 3:

What else, yeah, and what we've done in the last about five years is we've added our team to bring engineering assistants underneath our our purview. So we've hired five. There's five engineers here, so we can bring a breadth of knowledge from the design side over to the construction side, and Landwood was founded almost 48 years ago.

Speaker 1:

My wife's grandfather and one of his business partners were ex-wearehauser guys that wanted to develop more products under their purview, and so they started Landwood Systems. My father-in-law joined in 83 and was an owner and essentially ran the company until about six years ago, and it's now on to the third generation and Jeremy and I are actually now the owners. We are recovering engineers, as we like to say, met at an engineer record firm and worked there together for several years and bring that experience from engineer records side of the fence and try to marry it up to products that we sell and service our jobs with.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So one of the benefits is is on the GC side at least they get to write one contract for a whole myriad of material. On the owner's side, what it does is it allows us to have a better coordinate the building because and then we also coordinate to the structural steel and the other structure that supports whatever materials it is we're providing.

Speaker 1:

And also understanding that oftentimes multiple manufacturers can and should be able to provide products for a particular job.

Speaker 1:

Able to provide products for a particular job Because we work with multiple manufacturers across North America.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes the job's unique attributes and needs are such that we're able to hone in and say we believe that rather than have these three or four wheel-lamb companies, for example, looking at it really, it should maybe only be one or two, based off of either internal capabilities, cnc capacity Sometimes it's you know, it's oftentimes going to be budget-driven, it's going to be scheduled right. If we know that one of them is already booked out in a manner that's going to compromise projects, either their budget again, or their schedule, we have the answer to what best fits that project. We then try to marry up those packages together and, from a material standpoint, it's our internal shop drawings, we're purchasing them and putting them together. So, as far as the manufacturers are concerned, it takes their project management, their modeling, their sales out of the mix, so they're just able to do what they do best as far as the production side of it goes. So it's intended to also help fill their coffers as far as their overall production and schedule is concerned.

Speaker 3:

And it puts the liability over on us as far as making sure that CNC model is correct, which then in turn removes that liability from the manufacturer of not having something coordinated.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, I was going to say you guys are kind of coming at it from both angles and like there's benefits to the design, build, the ownership side, but then also from the supplier, the material suppliers as well.

Speaker 1:

Right, that's correct, that's the goal, and in the material suppliers we essentially pay them right away and then and then we carry that, you know that material for however long we need to carry for as far as the the finance party, so for them they are able to produce and get paid and and it's based off the list we give them saying build us this list, let us know when it's ready, and all should be good.

Speaker 2:

How do you? How does that play into like, if all should be good? How do you? How does that play into like if there's design changes at whatever phase? Are you guys nimble? Are you guys because you guys have access to those other supplier networks? Are you guys? You guys can be nimble and kind of like change plans? Does that work for you guys?

Speaker 3:

That's correct. Yeah, we can. If the design changes, that may be suited for a better man, a different manufacturer, we're going to move to that other manufacturer. Whether that's just due to fabrication capabilities, maybe it's the schedule. Something needs to be accelerated and we need a different manufacturing and fabrication time slot. We have the ability to move to a different manufacturer.

Speaker 1:

And the goal, though, is also to inform the design team that, hey, this change is steering us away from what we've been communicating to everyone upstream. As the intended MO, we'll let them know. Hey, guys, this decision just caused us to need to pivot. Is that worth it to you? And maybe, rather than going down this direction, let's steer it back to keep it on what we've been planning on the entire time, because, again it's, most designers are not going to know um the ins and outs of each manufacturer's uh capabilities yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2:

It's like where is your guys's like primary focus right now? Regionally, are you guys able to do projects in certain parts of the united states, you guys? What's that look like?

Speaker 3:

We do work nationwide. It all depends on material that we're supplying. In the mass timber world I would say it's a lot more regionalized over here on the western side of the United States, but we do other engineered wood products all throughout the US.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and a lot of that is based off of territory agreements, et cetera, et cetera, with the different manufacturers, because we're not trying to step on their toes, we are trying to add to their team's horsepower.

Speaker 2:

Totally. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and so you guys had talked in the intro about bringing on staff to basically kind of lighten the load and bring everything under one roof. What have you guys seen in terms of efficiency improvement for projects by having all that under one house?

Speaker 3:

So we do have an increase in efficiency and productivity. One of the things it does is it allows us to not only use engineers as their engineering background. Although that's a major benefit, it also allowed us to introduce a project management team into our portfolio, to where we can manage bigger projects and not burdening the current staff that we've always had.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I imagine that's a pretty big selling point. Might not be the right word, or maybe it is. When you guys are going out and competing for these projects, it's like you guys have all. You have all these tools in your tool belt rather than having to piecemeal it together, right?

Speaker 3:

That's correct.

Speaker 1:

And one of the things we endeavor to do is leverage that design experience and expertise. Having sat in the engineer of record seat for a number of years, having sat in the engineer of record seat for a number of years, you know we worked for. As engineers of record you are working for the architect, typically, sometimes for the GC, but at the end of the day we're able to take kind of that big picture view rather than just saying, hey, we're just focused on a component. Let's look at the system and do what's best for the owner on the system. It's intended to be leverage the expertise for a best system approach, whatever that may be.

Speaker 2:

And again, before we started recording, we were talking about some of you guys' projects that you've done. You guys worked on a monastery that kind of really highlights all of these different components that you talked about. Like there's tons of different materials, they all integrate differently and it's absolutely stunning. We'll put some project images in here so people can see it, but can you tell me about the process for that project? Maybe what you learned, things that stood out, things that you guys saw as a challenge, overcame that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that project was with a great design team and general contractor and Adelson and Peterson built that great Dharma Monastery and it was really one that right out of the gate thing that it needed to be coordinated between architect, engineer, um and and suppliers. So on that job we we got to utilize most of the tools we have in our belt, um, so you had, you had deep depth eye joys for the crawl space for red built um, you know, for part of that you had uh lsl studs. You had plated roof trusses for the living quarters for the monks and some of the roof was a combination of trusses and microlam LSL wall stones, for example. But the honeypot of that project was the exposed glulam CLT timber and hybrid glulam and hss columns that were in a role to the, you know, to the wild factor of that building and just the way your uh adam blends into the landscape. It just goes, you know, pays homage to their, their, uh, their vision I uh it was a fun project, yeah, I bet.

Speaker 2:

I mean it's absolutely stunning. And I heard you say something about integrating with the HSS columns. I've been on a little bit of a hybrid kick with some of the guests lately and it seems like the HSS mass timber integration is kind of like newer, like more people are talking about it now, but this project is actually a few years old. So it kind of sounds like you guys are a little bit ahead of the curve in that game it now, but this project is actually a few years old.

Speaker 1:

So it kind of sounds like you guys are a little bit ahead of the curve in that game and took a forward-thinking design to allow that to happen and make it a reality for sure. But we were able to help the architect achieve their vision, basically saying here's what you can and can't do with these different materials. Here's breathable finishes to put on and here's what to avoid and especially based on the climate materials. Here's breathable finishes put on it. Here's what to avoid, especially based on the climate and what you need to that area. What is going to be weathering this? Is it more steer towards heavy rainfall? If not, because it's Colorado, we're high in the desert, it's more youth intensive. So how do we protect that and help be the best end product for the animal area, for the?

Speaker 2:

long, so the monastery project is obviously super impressive. Everybody just saw it on the screen like what else? What other projects you guys working on now that you're really excited about?

Speaker 1:

uh, get a couple going at the moment that are that are fun. One is a school, uh. Another one is going to be a uh, a restaurant the colorado mountains. That's really beautiful and presents some unique design challenges because of some of the geometry, but again, it's just going to be one of those fun projects that highlights again an application with mass timber that, quite frankly, that was not a possibility. We didn't get to play in that sandbox as an industry 20 years ago, right? That's one of the things that's exciting about mass timber is that it's not cannibalizing from light frame construction or even heavy timber construction. It's again just grows the part.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yeah, and I think you're seeing well, specifically in this application. But you're seeing the building typologies and use cases for mass timber grow above and beyond what everybody thinks is practical or possible. It almost feels like every year, like as an example, like when I first got into this industry, like everybody was like housing applications, from small to big, never going to happen. Right Now, multifamily buildings and even some single family are really starting to gain traction. And then you just talked about restaurants and I know we're seeing things in like sports arenas, Like it just seems to be growing into like more spaces that are. For me, it's super exciting because I love I'm a timber nerd, I love seeing wood products in these spaces that are traditionally timber and concrete. And you guys had just mentioned a school too, right yeah?

Speaker 1:

And even kind of elaborating on your point. One of the things that's interesting is, you know, it felt like mass timber was going down the path. You know, spec office, commercial office building, right, hey, what a great use for it, right? And then shoot, we had several on a docket and then COVID hit and all of a sudden the need for office space has shifted and we all go work from home, and so some of those projects went away.

Speaker 1:

Well, a little bit, a lot of them went away, and so I think the industry has had to spend a little bit of time in the last few years pivoting for, okay, if that space is not going to recover for some time, how do we make sure to integrate this into other construction types and building types? Because I think it was headed down the. That to me, was the primary use that we were seeing, application we were seeing in Colorado, and again, you've seen that pivot, I feel like, over the last two years, especially where folks are starting to see okay, you can also be used for, like you just said, restaurants and resorts, schools, right, there's, there's other uses for it that, um, maybe we weren't thinking of yet and it's still. It's still. It's not in its infancy in North America, but it's not as widely accepted as many of the other traditional construction types.

Speaker 2:

For sure and kind of like talking about that infancy is not the right words. But I was doing some research this morning actually on like the market, where it's at in North America, where's it going? And there's everywhere. There's anywhere from a three to 10 X multiple and where we're at in the next eight to nine years. Right, and so like when people are talking about you know it's not new, new, right, it's been around for maybe a decade or so, depending on how you're you're counting it, like the codes and stuff like that. But there is still like tremendous growth coming through across all different industries. That's just like the mass timber product market. What, where are you? Where do you? If you had a crystal ball, where do you think you're going to see more mass timber in these, in certain types of buildings?

Speaker 1:

My crystal ball is cracked and held together with duct tape. I actually think warehouse and data centers could be an interesting question. Whether or not it really takes off or not is another matter, but that's one that I could envision. How about you? Yeah, I think that's one. That's one that I could envision. How about you?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think that's one. I'm kind of intrigued of getting it to be used more in the right call it multifamily or even single family custom homes To kind of get really a breadth of project size to where not everything is a big, massive, even in the terms of a warehouse. That's a lot of volume, uh, but it's. I think we also need projects of all sizes to help even the flow out for manufacturers For sure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but there's the, uh, the, the jar of rocks. Right, you got the big rocks, uh, the gravel, the sand and uh, and hopefully you have enough room for a beer in there. Um, it takes. It takes multiple project sizes to really make those plants hum and sing the way they need to and also help spread out some of the risk for manufacturing as well.

Speaker 2:

Totally, and I think the there's a flip side of that coin too is it's like you need the various project sizes to help support manufacturers, but you're also starting to see more various sizes of manufacturers to also kind of address that same thing that you're talking about, like you guys have. Well, I know one in Durango that's exclusively focused on single family homes, like TimberAge, but I've talked with people that are like hey, we're setting up quote unquote micro factories for smaller scale CLT, or maybe it's traditional three-ply, maybe even five-ply CLT, but they're not setting it up to be a hundred million dollar plant. Maybe it's like a two to $3 million plant to supply regionally or even statewide based projects. Because you guys are in a position where you talk to a lot of different material providers. Where do you see those types of companies playing into the conversation?

Speaker 3:

I think I think at this point, with where we're at, with just capacity within the current infrastructure, I think there's room for everybody. Um, you know you've got to have those people that are challenging the status quo, that CLT can't be made in a certain location because of X, Y and Z? Um. So these smaller shops that are popping up, they're challenging the status quo and maybe it does become more viable and those shops can grow as the opportunity grows so that they can service that. You know, that single family home that you spoke of down in Durango, that's their target and maybe that can grow. And now, all of a sudden we've got a new way to build single family homes.

Speaker 1:

And something that is thrown around a lot around mass timber, but it truly is an important thing to consider, is the sustainability of it. But and how are we? How are we intelligently stewarding our forests? Because we've seen, we've seen some of the devastating effects of when it's not done well, right, and fire will happen, right, other events will happen, right, but to be able to mitigate that and again also build that into the design of just another tool on the belt, with which other tools that designers know they have at their fingertips, the builders have at their fingertips, and also, I think something we really attempt to do with the design community in Colorado is to educate them on when is it a good application, when is it maybe not the best, one is maybe not the best because, um, just as we don't, we don't build our houses where it's post-tension concrete, um, that's that's best used for other applications.

Speaker 1:

There are, uh, there are good uses of mass timber or stick framing or compost steel or just like any other product, right, and and also for designers to have, and owners and gcs have an understanding, just rough order magnitude, costs, right, um, if you're trying to compare two systems that are vastly different in our price and in what they're able to achieve. Um, but you don't know that going into it, you might head down a path that you know just it ends up being a waste of your time and everybody else's time. That's not the goal. The goal is to say here's when you should consider it and its best use and value to the element.

Speaker 2:

What do those conversations look like? On a practical like hey, I picked up the phone, I called Luke and Jeremy. They're like hey, I'm thinking about mass timber. Do you guys have a napkin math method? Where you're like, hey, we'd love to work with you, but maybe this project specifically probably not the right fit. Or if you change this, then it would be we had that pretty frequently because I?

Speaker 3:

I would say that comes up fairly frequently and I think it's I'm more of the.

Speaker 3:

I want to find out more about the project, um, find out what their goals are. Uh, you know, is cost an issue, is schedule an issue, or are they looking to do something new and kind of challenge the status quo, like I said earlier? So really it's listening first and then helping guide that decision. If you know, if somebody's just looking for as most economical system as they can, build their small cabin in the mountains out of that, that may not be mass timber, that's going to be other materials, uh, but if they're wanting, like I said, to challenge the status quo, then let's work down that path, let's have those discussions so they have the upfront, you know, rough order, magnitude, cost per square foot what they're looking for, so that nobody wastes a bunch of time all the way from the owner to the designers and down onto us to material suppliers are there certain cases that stick in your mind that are like yeah, this is a no-brainer, like we can definitely make this work we've done a few um that we used years ago.

Speaker 1:

But there was a case study we did in boulder where um essentially, essentially the ownership came to us and said the ownership and architect came to us and said, hey, we were looking for the best system here and we said, okay, what do you consider? It was a multifamily project. And they said, well, we're considering I-joist plated trusses, right, open webs or mass temp, basically CLT floors, but still having light-framed walls. I said, okay, when it comes to price, because we work in all three, when it comes to price, if you can do it out of IJOYST, you should do it out of IJOYST. If that's what you're trying to do, openweb is going to be a little more than the IJOYST but it does give you the ability to pass area piece right, that's a, that's a benefit. That um, a lot of the mechanical teams, and you know, avoiding drop soffits etc. Is is oftentimes the goal um. And then you know, third, you know, master is going to be more expensive than both of those um because it's not meant to compete against light framing, it's meant to compete against composite steel, fundamentally right.

Speaker 1:

And in that case we essentially broke down cost of each of the three ways to do it and one of the things that the owner considered they never pulled the trigger. I don't think the project even moved forward for what it's worth. But when we showed them here's the cost of all three. And then we asked them to consider, we said, okay, there's these three buckets that you can put it into. Let's call it the light framing, let's just condense the two to one there. So there's a light framing option. And then there's the mass timber floors, by going the mass timber route on your floors. And is that enough to overcome the cost, yes or no? And then do you believe that you could actually get a slightly higher lease rate or lower turnover for this project if you exposed the CLT for your ceilings?

Speaker 1:

And that was one where, all of a sudden, the gap in price became less important. There was still a gap in price, no question, but it was narrowing it a lot more than the LR anticipated and ultimately, again, the job never got built. But but it was one of those that they were at least considering. If we have a cold call and somebody says, hey, I want the cheapest option, do it out of my choice. If you can, that's the cheapest. It's the most cost effective If you're looking to expose it and make this building a little bit different or have that be one of the unique selling points versus marble countertops and oak cabinets. Whatever you can, bolt it panley, this is certainly something for owners to consider and not be afraid of. Whether or not it works out for that project is, you know, it's a calculus that they have to figure out later on down the road. But again, wasn't as large of a delta as we anticipated when we started the exercise. Hope that helps give a little insight to that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, it certainly does. And I think what you talked about is looking at that holistic package and the bottom line price rather than, like, the single material procurement price, and I think that's a conversation that you hear a lot in mass timber. It's like, hey, maybe if you're, if you're just comparing straight material to material or structural system structural system, yeah, like you might get a little sticker shock. But when you go through the holistic building process, like you said, like shorter timelines maybe higher lease premiums, et cetera, like that's when you can start bringing things more in line and have kind of a quote unquote, apples to apples comparison. Is that fair?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, cause the time cost of money, especially with interest rates you hire today, is different than it was five years ago. Right, it just is higher interest rates.

Speaker 2:

The name of those construction notes are costing you more every every day than not, at least in that space, yeah so well, what are you guys excited about for the future, like what's where's landwood going, where you guys putting your efforts right now?

Speaker 3:

so we're we're pretty optimistic about the future with mass timber, just everything that's going on.

Speaker 3:

Uh, you know, we've actually started to see a lot of growth in the colorado market, um, and we'll call it the mountain region, if you will Um, so there's more people, I think, kicking the tires getting involved.

Speaker 3:

Um, we're starting to see I'll call on a concentration of manufacturers are targeting this area, um, so I believe at least the area that we're currently in in the Colorado market. Uh, there is potential to grow in that. And then, you know, like Luke said earlier, with the way our forests have been managed in the past, as forests start to get managed better, we're going to be able to see more of that fiber come on the market, and that will help fuel this, I believe, as well, because then that fiber needs to get used and in the end we'll actually have a better performing forest that hopefully we can mitigate some of these really big wildfires. So I know I've enjoyed seeing I'll call it all the different stakeholders starting to work together, whether that's people who own forest land down to people who manage it, to loggers, to designers, to manufacturers, to material suppliers and into the installers. Really, everyone's kind of starting to hone in on it as a viable option and I'm excited to see where it goes Okay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's even a local chapter, a Colorado Mass Timber Coalition that's been started up in the last couple of years. It's been growing and it's fun, and engineers be part of it. Foresters, policy makers, suppliers like ourselves just to say, hey, how can we do this better that we've done in the past and and again we've uh, we have a better future for, uh, the generations after us. Right, well, we're all stewards, we're all just passing through, but but our kids, our grandkids, their grandkids, I mean it's, it's something that we need to be mindful of.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and I totally agree with everything you just said. I'm curious to know the folks that you're interacting with when you're talking about. Hey, we're getting, we're getting more or different people inquiring about this mass timber thing. Is there a common thread or an angle that they're coming at it from? Is it that sustainability, stewardship, access or uh angle? Is it the building performance? Is it the aesthetic appeal, like? Is there a common thread that you're seeing? Or maybe there's a common thread by profession?

Speaker 3:

yes, tell you about it? There's a pretty heavy concentration. I, yes, tell the above, there's a pretty heavy concentration. I think once people start seeing how quick it can go up, that's obviously a driver, you know. It's also one of those where it's being used in different applications, such as core walls. We're starting to see that more, so I think that that's intriguing to some people because it gives yet another option to use it. But yeah, there's definitely, as Luke said, it's all of the above as far as what drives each individual to want to use it or to want to at least investigate the use of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and the value proposition for each project may be somewhat unique, but at the end of the day, we're all here. If you're in business, you're there to add value to your customer. Right For sure said, like with core walls, right, Stair cores, elevator cores, you know, those can go up in a matter of days or day, depending on size, height, et cetera, et cetera, how you assemble it, put it together. But that's a tool that wasn't available to us, you know, 10 years ago, for example, and I think that's something fun that we all enjoy building. We all enjoy construction. You know I can be best utilize this tool to add value to ownership.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yep, I love that answer. So where can people learn more about what you guys are doing and connect with you?

Speaker 3:

So, as far as connecting with us, that's either through our website, through our LinkedIn profile we try to show some of our projects. Once we're able to show them, if they can be, that's where those would be housed and then can reach out to any one of us through our contact information that's listed on the website. We'd love to talk about projects with anybody and see how we can bring an owner's dream to life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, pick up the phone, let's go have lunch there's. You know, there's nothing that can substitute face-to-face time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. So lunch on Lamwood We'll go ahead and we'll link all those contact information down below for everybody that wants to reach out and get a hold of you guys. But thanks for talking with me, gentlemen. I really appreciated learning the kind of unique approach and the place you guys sit in this market and I look forward to seeing you guys in Denver at the Mass Timber Group Summit Likewise Awesome.

Speaker 1:

Have a good one Thanks for your time, Brady.

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Brady Potts

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Nic Wilson

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