"You Don't Know What You Don't Know" with publisher Donnella Looger

Donnella Looger is one of those people living out her gift and passion.  Listen as she shares how a young girl who read cereal boxes to find mistakes turned a passion for the written language into owning her own publishing company. 

She has published numerous books of all types of genres. Check out her website to learn more.

HOME | DonnellaLooger.com

Transcript

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Hello, and thank you for joining us for How to Write a Book from A to Z. I am Lisa Greinert, your podcast host. Today we have Donella Looger. Donella the owner of DRL Press She served as a business editor, proofreader, and writer for decades. Her passion is helping writers ensure that every book published through DRL Press is engaging, accurate, and the best it can be.

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DRL

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Press provides writers with an opportunity to publish their book in as little as 60 days and allows the writer to keep

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100

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percent of the rights

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and

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100 percent of the profits. So, let's talk with Donella.

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Hello and thank you for joining us for How to Write a Book from A to Z. Donella, thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, I'm excited. I love to help authors know what to do. I know already, we've spoken before, have a lot of expertise in what is really the next phase after that wonderful writing journey. So your experience is mostly in publishing, correct? Editing and publishing. So tell us how your journey began. Oh, my journey was such an accident. I've always been an avid reader. And after retirement, I had all the time in the world to read. I discovered this writer by the name of Jack Watts through a Facebook. And I read one of his books in one day. And then I immediately went to Amazon, ordered everything he had written, and read that over the next couple of weeks. So, I sent him a private message on Facebook, with little hope he would really answer me, and ask him if he had something unpublished that he would send me that I could just read so much faster than he could write. He sent me a Word document. So I did what I always do. I found the errors while I was reading it. So I sent Jack a great review and said, by the way, I fixed it. Here it is. And he sent me a message back saying, Donella, I'd already paid a lot of money to have this professionally edited and proofread. So since then, Jack and I have done at least 15 or 20 books together, including co writing one. We've done a few screenplays, two movie pilots, and Jack launched my career. Wow, just through a simple message on Facebook. Yes, after a few years, that's how all my clients found me. There are a lot of writers groups on Facebook with new authors that are asking questions. So without promoting myself, I would just Answer their questions and they would respond and we became friends and then I'll let them know. I am an editor. If you want to send me your. I'll take a look at it and give you some feedback at no charge. And so, eventually, I started editing for money. And then, I have a book club in my house, Lisa. And I noticed that Every time people would find an error or an inconsistency, they would not blame the author, they blame the editor. And normally an author will say at the beginning of their book, thank you for Donella Looger, or whoever their editor is, and I did not want my name associated with a book that was less than perfect. So the way to ensure that was to get my own logo and imprint, start a company, And so now I include proofreading of that document before it's ever published. And that way I can make certain that it's as good as it can be. Wow. So, okay. How, where did you get the experience to even know how to edit? Did it just come to you? It's a gift from God. I mean, when I was a kid, I could spot a mistake on the back of a cereal box. I'm just constantly reading. However, you don't know what you don't know. There is a book called the Chicago Manual of Style that weighs six pounds because grammar changes. About every four or five years and this book is published. It's the standard in the publishing industry and so I learned a lot through that. I took typing in high school, which was a long time ago and you always had 2 spaces after a period. That's no longer true. Thank you, because I didn't know that. You're right. I didn't know it either. And I changed everyone in Jack's manuscripts to two spaces after the period, and he came back and told me, no, that's not right. There's so many tiny little things you need to know. Yes, and it changes every 4 or 5 years. A lot of it, especially with fiction, there's some, you know, leniency there. But, you know, A lot of times you don't remember, you know, is PhD, capital P, little h, capital D, or is there a period after the P H before the D? Absolutely, and you're right. I had no earthly idea. So, okay, someone like me, like I said, you know, still struggling, muddling, I don't, through my, I I still kind of consider it my first draft, but there's been, there's been a lot more, but there's still so much more to do. When will I know I'm ready to hand it over to someone like you? When, when does it end? I asked Jack that question once, because I'm not perfect and you're not perfect. But I want your book to be as perfect as humanly possible. So I dedicate at least a month to every new book just for the editing process. And we may go through that six to 10 times before we're happy. So again, it's much like curating, you know, you take stuff out, you move stuff around, you decide what works, decide what doesn't. A writer needs to be a good storyteller. They don't need to be a good grammarian. I can polish it and make it as perfect as humanly possible and still maintain your voice. That's what's important. And speaking of voice, if you're writing a technical book or a nonfiction how to book, the perfect grammar and everything is perfect. But if you're telling a story, and you're from Texas, and you're saying, I'm gonna, or I'm fixin to, we're gonna keep that the way it is. Because I want it to be conversational. And I've had clients that hired me after somebody else edited their book, because they said the editor ruined it. And I love that you're saying that, because, being from Louisiana, I do have some of my, Cajun influence, in my book but yeah, I think that that's a scary thing for Me as a newbie is handing my, what is such value and time and effort that I've gone through, having someone that you can trust that is not going to make it not yours any longer, I guess is a good way to put it. How many books have you published? Oh, I don't know. 40 or 50. Wow. And what are you working on now? Curious. I am so excited. I'm working on several things right now. But one of the men in the Writers League is 95 years old, almost 96. And he was in the OSS before the OSS became the CIA. He's almost blind, almost deaf, but sharp as a tack. He keeps me and six other people busy. And we're currently writing a book on the history of Islam, which is requiring a lot of research and a lot of in person meetings. But I think it's a very, very important book because if I mention it to people, they admit that they know very little. And how, so this is just like his next passion, what he wants to write about, is it, he, he's a retired naval captain. He was a naval intelligence officer. My neighbor is a retired CIA intelligence officer. So he said, Donella what are you working on? So I told him about Marty. And he said, really? He said, you know, my dad's a retired colonel in the army. And I was in the army, of course, before, I went to CIA. And he said, my dad's best friend was in the OSS, have you ever heard of Jerry Sage? And I said, no. He said, well, you should get the movie The Great Escape because Steve McQueen played Jerry in that movie. It's a true story. I remember watching that movie. Well, I just watched it the other day. It was a great movie. And so anyway, Dave said, yeah, he said, Jerry used to come to our house. I'd sit down at his feet and say, oh, please tell me another story. So he said, I used to have the book, but I've lost it. And he said, if I had it, I'd loan it to you. I said, oh, well, great. I'll go to Amazon and buy it. He says, oh, no, you won't. He said, you'll probably never find one, but if you did, it would be so expensive. So I went to Amazon and they had one that was in fair condition for 200. Well, I might have done it, but it was fair. So I did, you know, some research. Lisa, I found a man in North Carolina who is, he started the 17th chapter of the Special Forces Association for retired Green Berets, et cetera. And he has the publishing rights for that book. He also called the CIA and got. recently unclassified, never seen before pictures of Jerry Sage, and I republished this book. He is sending me a signed and numbered copy along with patches and coins and we talked on the phone for over an hour. My career has brought me in contact with so many interesting people. Marty got me interested in the military. I now have two generals on the ground in Syria. When I read something in the news, I can contact them and say, is this accurate? Thank you for sharing that because I think between what you're saying and with Marty, there's no excuse to not. write. I'm saying that just for new writers because just even like me It's like you just have to start and if a 96 year old, is that what you said? Marty? Yeah, I'll be 96 in January Yeah, 96 year old who can barely hear barely see and look at what he's still accomplishing That's beautiful. Well what he's writing is important. Yes You And what you are writing is important. You have told me your story and given me an understanding that I never had before. I recently published Karen Cross Hawks book called Slices of Life. And prior to that, I had no understanding of what a young black girl would feel at a camp that was full of white people. Maybe four or five other black girls there. She's in a cabin with all white girls, and she's an introvert. It sounds painful. It was. And her mother talked her into going back two more times. Wow. Wow. That's just one of the stories in her book, Slices of Life. There's many. But, you know, She started out calling it a black book, and it's not a black book. It's something everyone, in my opinion, should read to understand how it actually feels. Yes. When you and I visited and you told me your story, it's like, wow. Yeah, I got inside your mind and your heart and I understand how you felt. And that's the power of the written word. And you're so right. And I guess that's, back to my question is how you finally feel like, you're ready to hand it over. It's just, I don't know, especially, I guess, because it's a memoir, I'm in still in a therapy mode and I guess I want people to hear that because I think that that's important, especially if you're writing a memoir and you're not really a writer, just what my journey has been like, because for me, First of all, when I picked up my computer, I didn't even know I was writing my memoir. I was just Journaling and, I feel like my journey, what has been several years now, and I'm still writing, but I feel so much better about forgiveness and, and trying to look at people through different lenses now that I'm older and supposedly wiser, although sometimes I question that, And I think that that's important too, is it's a journey. It's a long journey, especially when it's your life story, but I feel like I guess a lot of people that write a memoir, that what I have is a value to people, and that sounds like, like the slice of life. She, she's doing it because not only is it therapeutic, But it's of value. The most important thing, Lisa, is to work with an editor that you trust. Yes. I mean, so many writers want to go with a traditional publisher. I think, depending on what the genre is, that can or maybe not a good idea. In your particular case, I would hate for a traditional publisher to spend a couple of years editing your book, changing your voice, put the cover on it that you didn't like, or you know, I mean, You need control over it. So let's then move on to the topic of publishing. Can you tell us a little bit about the difference between going with a publisher or going with publishing on Amazon? Well, that's not an either or, it's a continuum. If you wanted a traditional publisher that pays you in advance on your royalties, the first thing you would need to do is get an agent. You send out, you check Query Tracker or one of the guides and you find out what that particular agent's Specialty is where they're taking, let's say a memoir, and what they want. They might want the whole manuscript. They might want a synopsis. They might want the first three chapters. You have to give them exactly what they asked for, along with a query letter. They'll either send you a rejection within six months, or they'll accept it. If they accept it, they have agreed that they are going to shop that manuscript to several publishers, and once they sell it, they get a 15 percent commission on whatever the publisher pays you. The downside of that, well, there's an upside and a downside. The upside is, they pay for the editing, the cover. And the formatting and all of that. The downside is they have control over it and you don't. You have input, but they have veto power. And, you know, if they were going to give you, let's say, 10, 000 dollars, you'd get 5, 000 now and 5, 000 when it's published. This is the end of 2024. They're working on their 2026 catalogs. So, if your book was finished today, you probably would not find an agent until 2025, and your book probably would not be published until 2027. So, that's a pretty long wait. The other thing is, unlike in the past, They don't do a lot of marketing, unless you're Prince Harry or Beyonce or, somebody really famous. So, before they're even going to accept your book, they want you to have a platform. You know, do you have 10, 000 followers on Instagram? Well, sorry, we don't want your book there's that the other end of the spectrum is that you can use all of the tools on Amazon, KDP, Kindle Direct Publishing, you can create your own cover through Canva or 1 of those. You can upload it to a template, and you can almost publish for free. You can also, if you want an editor that's cheap, you can go to Fiverr, and find somebody that'll probably edit your book for 50, or make you a cover for 100. But it's probably, sadly, gonna look pretty amateur. there are, today. 7, 000 books uploaded to Amazon every single day in North America. Whoa 7, 000 some of those come from the big publishers some of them are self published and then don't let me forget to talk about all the types of publishing in between but People aren't going to bookstores so much anymore, so you don't walk in and see a big display of Lisa's book, or even four or five copies facing you with a 6x9 cover. You're looking at something the size of a postage stamp. When you pull up, you know, something general like memoirs or, or even if they pull up your name, even if they're looking for your book, your book's gonna come up on a page with six or seven other books, all the size of a postage stamp. So you've gotta have a cover that grabs their attention. And the 2nd thing that grabs their attention is the title and they're going to make a determination within 2 or 3 seconds, whether they're even going to click on it and look at the look inside feature. So that landing page on Amazon is absolutely crucial and that cover is just so important. Interesting. Okay. All right, and tell me you said there were some other ways you want to make sure there are vanity presses and what they do is they generally they're kind of predatory. And they just tend to over promise it under deliver, making this new writer think that, you know, they're going to. Make a fortune and they don't all operate the same way But you know, you're agreeing to pay them so much for this abc or d package which includes, you know 2500 books that you're going to buy at wholesale and put in your garage and try and sell and That's really sad because they're getting all their money up front and they really don't care about the quality Okay, and then what I do and what I think is best. is hybrid publishing. Sometimes it's called boutique. There are, you know, several different names for it, but essentially, we invest in your book, but you also invest in your book. You're paying for the editing, the formatting, the layout, the cover, and then we help, you know, it has a logo on the back of it, I would put any book I've produced right up next to one from Simon Schuster. It's going to look just as good. And so, it gives you a credibility. It gives you a place to start. And you know the quality is really high. The important thing is that you and your publishing company discuss how it's going to be marketed. Because, you're going to spend Let's say you've got a 70 to 75, 000 word book. My rights for editing are three to five cents a word. So even if it, if it's my lowest right, you're going to spend a couple of thousand dollars to get it edited. And then you're probably going to spend another 1, 500 to get a top notch, and I do have a book designer who has 50 years of experience, but You're probably going to pay Ernest, you know, at least 1, 500 for formatting the cover design and everything depending on how much time it takes. When we upload it to Amazon and charge 15 for that book, your royalties for the print copy are going to be about 5 to 6. Your royalties for the e book will be about 9. But you have to sell quite a few books to break even. And I don't want any author of mine to ever not break even. So it's important that we if they're members of the Writers League, I put it on our Writers League Facebook page. But even if I don't do that, I have a personal Facebook page and a business Facebook page. And my website. So I put a landing page for all of my authors on my website, as well as, there's a link to the book on Facebook straight to Amazon so they can purchase it. If they Google that person's name and it leads them to my website to their landing page, it gives a bio, author headshot, a picture of the book, and they can click on my website and it takes them to Amazon. Okay, and okay, let's just say typical from start to finish once if I hired you What's a typical time span? between the editing publishing and the book actually being in someone's hand a Maximum of 60 days. Oh my gosh compared to years Yes Oh, wow. Okay, and that's generally for a new writer, you know, for someone like Jack Watts or, Howard Siegel that I've done several books for. I'm usually done with theirs in a week, but it really depends on what I can take it. And what else I'm working on, but let's say, for instance, you sent me your book and it's 70, 000 words. I mean, I know. Okay, let's not use you. Let's use somebody. I don't know that I've never seen. So they send me. Their manuscript, I read through it and I immediately go back to them and say, you know, we're not a good fit. You need to work on this or I'll accept it and this is what it's going to cost. I don't like horror and I don't like erotica. If I'm going to have to read it six to ten times, I need to really like the story and believe in it. And I fact check, a reader fact checks and sees that it's wrong. That just ruins the entire book because then you're like, what else is it that I don't know that is not, you know, yeah, you know, I had a new author and she's written several books, which is a great writer, but she had this guy that bought this mansion on the highest hill in Houston. Well, Houston don't have no hills. Houston is sea level. True. Oh, you know, he needs to live on Kirby Drive. But he doesn't, you know, River Oaks. But he's not going to be on a hill. Yeah, no, that's so funny. You're right. The small little details all make a difference. Yeah, you don't go north on Interstate 10. Yes. That's great. Okay. Tell us the name of your company and how people can get a hold of you. The name of my company is D. R. L. press. And they can go to donnellaluger. com or they can go to DRLpress. com. What else do you think we might need? That next step. Well, you need to be ready. Because if I take a book on and I'm going to devote a month to it, I've got somebody else waiting. I mean, their time is on the calendar for the following month. So we need to finish it. So, if, you know, if I'm working on it, I need to be able to send you a text message or an email and have you respond to me in a timely manner. You know, you can't go off, you know, on a vacation for 10 days and just leave me hanging. I mean, have fun with you. That makes sense. I think that's fair. I've got some really intelligent clients with PhDs or law degrees that can't spell worth beans. Sometimes I cannot even figure out what were they meant to use and I have to ask them, and because I'm such a prolific reader, and maybe my age, I know a little bit about a lot of stuff. And I fact check, you know, with my background doing forensic psychology exams and, reading a lot of pre sentence investigations. That's so true. 1 little thing that a reader sees. And in fact checks and sees that it's wrong. That just ruins the entire book The small little details all make a difference. I hope our time with Donella was as beneficial to you as it has been for me. If you are at the point of wanting someone to edit or even talk about your book, please contact her. I think you will find that she is honest and will certainly ensure that there is not a single misspelled word or grammar mistake in any book that she has an opportunity to review and publish. If you'd like to contact Donella, you can contact her at donellalooger com. That's D O N N E L L A L O O G E R dot com. You can also find more information about publishing at drlpress. com. I believe after hearing Donella, you'll appreciate the motto of DRL Press. The motto is, good enough never is. Once again, thank you for listening and get out that big chief tablet.