Underdogs Bootstrappers Gamechangers
Welcome to the "Underdogs Bootstrappers Gamechangers" podcast, where we celebrate the relentless spirit of those who defy the odds, challenge the status quo, and make a lasting impact in their fields. Join us as we dive into the inspiring stories and strategies of bootstrappers, underdogs, and gamechangers from various industries.
In each episode, we'll explore the remarkable journeys of individuals who have built their success from the ground up. From starting with limited resources to overcoming obstacles, these entrepreneurs have mastered the art of creating something extraordinary out of nothing. Get ready to be motivated, learn valuable lessons, and gain insights into what it takes to make a difference in your own endeavors.
Through engaging interviews and thought-provoking discussions, we'll delve into the mindset and strategies that fuel the success of bootstrappers, underdogs, and gamechangers. Discover how they turned their disadvantages into advantages, harnessed their unique perspectives, and disrupted industries with their innovative ideas.
Whether you're a budding entrepreneur, a business professional seeking inspiration, or simply someone who appreciates the power of human resilience, this podcast is for you. Our goal is to empower you with actionable tips, practical advice, and a renewed sense of determination to pursue your dreams fearlessly.
Join us on this exciting journey as we explore the untold stories of individuals who have redefined the rules, shattered expectations, and left an indelible mark on their industries. Get ready to be inspired, uplifted, and motivated to unleash your own potential as a bootstrap, underdog, or gamechanger.
Tune in to the "Bootstrap, Underdog, Gamechanger" podcast and join our community of like-minded individuals who believe that anyone, regardless of their background or circumstances, can create meaningful change. Together, let's celebrate the underdogs who rise, the gamechangers who innovate, and the bootstrappers who make their dreams a reality.
In every podcast we produce, we stand by our "content for good" principle. This means that if we ever earn money from this or any of our other podcasts, we will donate 100% of the proceeds to charitable causes. Specifically, any revenue from "Underdogs" will be used to financially support new small business startups.
Underdogs Bootstrappers Gamechangers
NO CASH, NO PROBLEM: HOW TO HUSTLE YOUR WAY TO THE TOP
What does it really take to go from struggling to thriving?
In this raw and motivating episode, e-commerce expert Zoe Khan shares her incredible journey from financial desperation to running a successful agency with over 100 employees.
Zoe’s story starts with selling plasma just to afford a phone to apply for jobs. Juggling multiple minimum-wage jobs, sometimes working 18+ hours a day.
She built the work ethic and problem-solving skills that shaped her entrepreneurial success.
As Zoe puts it, “Money doesn’t buy happiness, but it does buy not-struggling.”
From flipping burgers at Culver’s to handling customer service at an energy drink startup to streaming on Twitch, every step taught her something valuable. Her big break came when she realized she could solve e-commerce problems others couldn’t, turning that skill into a thriving consulting practice.
This episode dives into the grit, resilience, and creativity it takes to succeed when you’re starting with nothing. Zoe’s story is proof that struggle isn’t a setback — it’s the foundation for future success.
Don’t miss her powerful insights and get inspired to turn your challenges into opportunities.
Hello and welcome to underdogs, bootstrappers and game changers. This is for those of you that are starting with nothing and using business to change their stars, motivating people who disrupted industry standards. This is the real side of business. This isn't Shark Tank. My aim with this podcast is to take away some of the imaginary roadblocks that are out there. I want to help more underdogs, because underdogs are truly who change the world. This is part of our Content for Good initiative. All the proceeds from the monetization of this podcast will go to charitable causes. It's for the person that wants it. Hello and welcome to another episode of Underdogs, Bootstrappers and Game Changers. I'm so fortunate today, and so are you, to have my friend Zoe with me today. How are you doing, Zoe?
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm really excited. Tyler has been telling me all about everything really just your entire journey, the podcast and so I'm really honored to be here because, yeah, I just I just started telling my story more openly and realizing how important it is to do that, so I'm excited to share it and share some things that maybe can help others, Cause I wish that I had more of that when I was going through it. So I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, it's like, um, underdogs. I really it can be hard sometimes too. It's like cause I need to vet people, uh to have them on the show, because I'm very protective of you. I can't accidentally have a course seller that sells something that's horrible for you or something like that, right, and so I take some time vetting people. Um, and I've known Zoe for a while and I uh I think amazing things about her. Um, I went through a process where I wasn't telling my story to the world either, and I've begun doing it and my life has improved exponentially because of it.
Speaker 1:And uh it's not uncommon for somebody to drop in my DMS and say something you said last week saved my life. Yeah, and so that's when we realized we have to do these things. And one thing recently you made a post about giving plasma away. And I'd like you to, if you can, weigh in on that story. You made a post about giving plasma. Times were hard. Could you tell me a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was kicked out of my house. I grew up in the south side of Chicago and my parents also out of my house. I grew up in the South side of Chicago and, uh, my parents also turned off my phone and so I was just kind of stuck because there was, um. I couldn't get to the next step without, like, simply, a phone. You know, luckily, um, I had a friend who I could stay with, so I wasn't homeless by any means as far as actually being without a home, but a phone and communication in this world is really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I just collected my resources and tried to figure out. I was always doing things like trying to babysit or rake leaves or shovel snow, all of those things, but I found out you could get $40 for donating plasma, um, and so I did that too so that I could collect or so that I could turn my phone back on Um and then I could apply to jobs because I'd have somewhere that they could call me back. So, uh, yeah, I did that until you could only go every whatever two days until cause you, you give your, you give your blood, and then they take all the plasma out and then put the blood blood back in and then your plasma regenerates and then you could do it again. So that's what I yeah, I did to like pay my phone bill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went through that too. It's like giving away plasma to um to eat Right.
Speaker 2:And underdogs.
Speaker 1:We're going to get to Zoe success story too. It's just like I want to show you another path you know, and then uh, on another person that's been the underdog and also like wait until you hear what she's up to. But sometimes it starts with giving blood for a meal right, you know. And then like one thing that's funny is when I used to go in there, I'd look at the people that were giving away the blood.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I remember this one lady even asked. She was in there basically because she thought they gave you an STD test before that, so she was only there for the STD test. She was pretty rough looking and I was like thinking to myself like, as I'm looking around at the other people that are in there and I'm sure you saw this too it's like my blood's going to be like superhuman compared to like the people that are in here.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, it's definitely very scary Like uh, I didn't want to be there, obviously it's sketchy folks. It's sketchy and like being a woman and like, uh, there's a lot of people. Well, the good thing is they do drug tests and that's to be pan, so like at least everyone's kind of like clean you know, or if it's their second time or more.
Speaker 1:If you saw them, you wouldn't want this blood though.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and um, plasma, everyone needs a plasma or people need the plasma. But I sometimes I think too. I look around like in's world where the underdogs? Today there is so much other opportunities that you don't have to go do that.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:Because I'm like I wish there was, I would have went on, or if I could figure out how to Uber Eats or all of those things or walk a dog.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:All the websites you can go on dog walk and stuff but plasma. It was the thing to do, I don't know. It was just like there wasn't as many like opportunities that you could just like go on a website and you know, I agree a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:We were in really rough times. My brothers and I and I remember my brother had made this uh, in woodshop he made a bedside table and we sold it for like 60 bucks, you know, and like, and that was like an amazing amount of money, or like we couldn't. We had a period of time and we actually had went homeless for a little while and, um, we're living in the desert here in Phoenix and uh, finally, like, we're able to move into a place and we had no money for food. My little brother happened to have this, uh, millennium Falcon Lego set and we sold that online and I, I think it got us like $300. That thing fed us for like weeks. Now. Now my brothers have amazing houses in Scottsdale. One's a PhD, very successful, and so now we get to joke around about these things. You know, we bought actually the millennium Falcon Lego set for my brother for Christmas, like again two Christmases ago or something like that.
Speaker 2:Well, I was um, I would did that too. I basically sold everything that anyone would buy until I could. Just, you know, so you could get ahead. And uh I was just talking to someone about this that like, uh, it almost feels like once you get going, like those are the hardest parts, but like, once you get going and you get a little bit of, like consistent income, it's so much easier, like I almost feel like it's unfair that like, once you have a little bit of money, it's so much easier to make more money, but like you can't really do that unless you have the work ethic and so doing, going through all those hard steps and then, like now, being able to put it back into myself and into the world. It's sometimes I'm like, wow, like 18 year old Zoe would look at me and be like, why does she get free PR boxes? She doesn't need it.
Speaker 2:I could have used those PR boxes to eat you know, you know, the money doesn't buy happiness and that's the thing I try to get across through my channels.
Speaker 1:a lot, you know, but it does buy, not struggle. And that first step of not struggling it's like, okay, you know, it's like a lot of people that are struggling. Then they can't pay their insurance for their car and the next thing you know, you get pulled over. And then the next thing you know, your driver's license is taken. It's such a horrible system and people don't realize that they're like well, how do you? You know, it's like getting eking out of that system somehow is like the first step, like getting enough money to get that tool. And I just want to actually add this here the Stuart Butterfield, who founded a slack, he's a billionaire and he like weighed in on, like the effects of being a billionaire on his life and he like basically said just what I said. It's like money at first buys you the like you don't have to worry about bills anymore. That is like such an amazing step.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or the stress of like. I remember even I was like doing I was much in a much better spot, but like someone broke my like uh, you know five, six years after that, like someone broke my car window and it's like and they stole my backpack with my school, my, my homework in it.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm like ah, like it's just like, you know, you have your, you have enough money for your bills, and you're so proud of yourself. But then, like, something like that comes up and you're like great, Now I'm like set behind again and it's like uh, money doesn't buy happiness. But like now, if something happens like that, I'm like, ah, damn, that sucks.
Speaker 1:But like we'll just deal with. Hire a repair person. Yeah yeah, fix it on site, cause you don't have the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that stuff used to crush me, Like I would be just you know, and I would complain about it too and like cause it is like very valid to complain about things that suck? Yeah, Like totally.
Speaker 1:I mean, stuart Butterfield talks about the um, the value of not struggling, and then pass that folks, and this is a good uh delineation of the importance of money. It's like he said, the next impactful thing in his billionaire life was the fact that he went to a restaurant and didn't have to worry about what anything costs anymore, which is fun. I don't know if you grew up going to restaurants. We never could go to them as a kid.
Speaker 2:My parents. I almost said the my address of my home because my, my dad, would always be like. It's a address, a Mozart restaurant, you know like so they'd be like we're eating at home. It's the restaurant at home. You know, cause I we'd always want to even just like McDonald's and it's like nope, we're eating at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no same same with us, you know. And so now I thoroughly enjoy every time I get to go out to you know, and that's the thing, underdogs too. It's like you might, you'd be like, oh, I don't have this, I don't have that. It's like when you turn the key on your brand new car, you enjoy it exponentially more than other people.
Speaker 1:When your windshield breaks, you know, and you have the money to pay it. You enjoy it exponentially more than other people when you can buy your own meal and you can have the steak and you can have the lobster at the same time. It's like you're going to enjoy it exponentially more. And the third item he said is like taking vacations and not worry about the cost. That was the impact of a billion dollars, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and I would add to that the not being able to take care of yourself is really great, but then being able to take care of others is even better, like being able to, like, buy someone else that meal, like I think you saw my post on Instagram where it was, uh, I wrote like a letter to myself. It's that trend.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And um, it was just like talking about like I wouldn't go to things because I don't want to show up and not get coffee because it's embarrassing, like I can't afford it and I don't want anyone else to pay for me, like I don't want anyone to like feel bad or whatever. And so in the post I wrote like don't worry, I'll buy yours too.
Speaker 2:And like being able to like help other people through that and supply jobs. I've I've helped some of my like just really hardworking friends who deserve to make a lot of money, given them opportunities to get jobs, and like that is even way better than even just being able to like support yourself, you know that's why we need more under dogs making it to success.
Speaker 1:If you watch my show, you know exactly that's what the premise is. That's why I spend my time on this podcast for charity. You know because I believe the same way. It's like success has an obligation and kindhearted people brought to success change things that they, you know, value. You and I felt struggle, so we would like to make struggle easier on other people.
Speaker 1:Right and that's why we have to get to our success. What was your like journey from like giving plasma to now? Like I know that you're doing amazing and you have your own company, you know, and like I've seen the clients that you're working with and things like that, walk me through a little bit of that so the audience can kind of tell your path.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was honestly like just a little step forward. Every single like moment I could get one. And also, it was, um, I see a lot of people struggle who won't stoop down, you know, and I was willing to like stoop below, you know, which is like such an interesting concept, but like I got and the mindset was like a huge part of it. So during the plasma donating phase I was really, really negative. I remember being like, why would anyone hire me? I don't have the my best experience. I remember being like, why would anyone hire me? I don't have the my best experience I have was caddying and carrying golf clubs, like that doesn't translate to anything and like all like I was. Just my thought process was so negative. Yeah, and uh, I don't know how I thought about this or thought of it, or I think I actually read, like it's so cliche, but I think I read the secret.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:It's like your thoughts are everything. And so I started writing down my thoughts and like seeing tangibly how negative they were, and so I would actually like write down, like, oh, I can't like, why would anyone hire me? And I would scratch it out and I would write like I am so capable of learning things, I'm passionate, I'm a pleasure to be around. Anyone would like love to, just like I. I, I will learn, I will listen, I will work hard and I w I just like did that and and um, I did it for months and months and I eventually trained my brain and and like I'll come back to this too when I'm in like a negative, like I see myself going into negative thought patterns, and I swear that like that exercise got me to the next step of simply just being going to interviews and being more like confident. And so I ended up getting a job at planet fitness and Culver's the food place.
Speaker 2:At the same time my schedule. I was so tired. My schedule was horrible. It was like 6 am to 2 pm. I would take the bus to Planet Fitness 6 am 2 pm, work, take the bus straight to Culver's down on the other side of town and work till 1 am, when we close the kitchen, and then just do it again and like every once in a while I would only have one of the jobs. But, um, I ended up I I was always wanting to be like healthy and fit and stuff, but I thought I would love working at planet fitness. But I actually enjoyed working at Culver's even more, which is a fast food place, and it was.
Speaker 2:It is one of those things where you you don't want to stoop below your that, your level or whatever but it was so fun and I learned so much and I actually worked in the kitchen and I my, I, my job was literally to dress the buns and like I would, you know, do work in the kitchen and it. I thought it was so fun to like be efficient and like you have like all these people waiting and they're waiting on efficient and like you have like all these people waiting and they're waiting on you and like they're happy eating your food and you're working as a team because I'm making the the, the buns, he's making the uh burger, he's over there on the grill Like and you it's like uh, you really have to work and then it's busy and so you have to cut all the ingredients and make sure you're prepared for the next busy time. And like I didn't think I would, really I didn't know I would learn anything from working fast food, you know.
Speaker 1:Gosh, there's like 47 things that I could unpack there that would be so beneficial to my audience, but it's funny Anytime I'm run across an underdog. I was a two job always person too. You know it's like and anytime I ran across an underdog, that's what we dug did to dig out of the hole. You know I make training videos around this stuff too. It's like my first training video says you're going to hate this task, go out and get two jobs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean cause, look what it taught you above everything else, you know. And you don't like, even if you don't think you're going to like it. And, honestly, some of the people I think some of the underdogs are actually the ones who who are willing to do it, but the ones that are like just right above the underdogs, who have kind of like a plan B you know, where they can like, stay at home until they find something. They want. They're not as willing to like, do that.
Speaker 1:You're probably dead right.
Speaker 2:And I. Those are some of the people I see struggle, even maybe more than some of the underdogs in in you're right, no choice is good yeah. Yeah. And so, like I never had, like I didn't have a choice, you know, so it was like I could just stay in that like negative mindset and just stay where I wanted, or stay where I was, or like just accept something to get you ahead, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes and that, like I'm constantly telling underdogs, there actually is huge advantages to it, and I get a lot of hate for it because I actually think underdogs are more prepared and the ability to overcome adversity is proven to be the number one success trait. It's like the two jobs like I'm already seeing, as you're talking about loving the like, expiration of the bun and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:I'm positive you brought that into your business Everything. Yeah, you know it's like we don't know it's like my worst job. I was like, uh, I took what I thought was below, you know, because I had some success early in life with the sales job and stuff, and so then I had to backpedal because we were homeless. You know, I just had to take what I could get. I ended up working at this country club which I absolutely hated. I hated it with a passion, Like they treated me so poorly.
Speaker 2:That's so crazy. We have the same thing. Cause I did I. My first job was a caddy when. I was 13 and I would carry golf clubs.
Speaker 1:But did you like it?
Speaker 2:I actually you know what I hated about it? Huh, um, I was so uncomfortable uncomfortable around wealthy people but, it taught me a lot. Like I just sat there and I observed and I was terrified, though I was like, please, nobody asked me where I'm from, please, like I don't know how to communicate with these people, cause I literally don't know what words, what these like the words are. I don't understand, it's a different language.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was so uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Gosh, it's so like, the similarities are so like, but you know, I remember like somebody asked me what my dad did. You know, because when you're young, they always ask what your parents did.
Speaker 1:And so my dad was a professional freestyle skier but he was also in jail for dealing drugs and um, at that moment, you know. And so they asked me what my dad did. I'm like, oh, he was professional freestyle skier and I didn't want to go into the second part, obviously. And so then they're like, what's his name? And then they Google him right there and then the only thing that comes up is this FBI thing, you know is like and like to your point. It's like you're always afraid about talking about where you're from, you know, but what it taught me and what I tell underdogs all the time, it taught me the normalcy of rich people seeing it possible. I call it because they were no smarter, they weren't harder working, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yes, that's actually the the thing that I see, and I actually see this in business a lot, because maybe we'll get to like what I do today. But like what got rid of my imposter syndrome in business was seeing all these founders just like making dumb mistakes and I'm like this is actually so inspiring because if I know how to fix this, and they're coming to me and like they're so successful, like multimillionaires, but they're like a shit show behind the scenes, like it's so motivating Nobody's better than you. I can do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nobody's better than you, and that, like that's why. Another thing in that video that I'm talking about, I said go get a job around rich people Cause.
Speaker 2:I do have a little chip on my shoulder about it too, because they didn't treat me fair.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like I was a valet in the morning, starting at four o'clock in the afternoon and then at one o'clock I would transition over to bartending until 10 o'clock at night and I was going to school full time too, and it's like they didn't treat me right. But like my and like this is something employer you to think about is like my revenge in that moment. And some people were just like, oh, I'm going to get that guy's car as slow as possible. You know it was like screw him. I did the opposite. I was like, sir, you've never seen somebody hit my get your car so fast. I sprinted a huge parking lot at 140 degrees here.
Speaker 2:Killed them with kindness.
Speaker 1:I absolutely did and that was my revenge because I brought that work ethic into my businesses. Yeah, right, and then that like it was one of the biggest gifts, even though I hated it so much, you know in so many ways, and it's it's so fun to hear like you bolster every single thing that I like talk to underdogs about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then there's like there's a couple different things about surrounding yourself with, like wealthy people. Uh, it's that of like you kind of just like get exposed to it but then also, yeah, you desensitize to it.
Speaker 2:But then you also, once you get to like not when I was 13 and a caddy until 13 through 16 years old like I couldn't. Maybe I wasn't going to meet anyone like to give me an opportunity. But who knows? But like now, um, and in these last you know years, like eight years to 10 years uh, surrounding yourself with wealthy people gives you opportunity.
Speaker 2:Like it gives you it like you if you're a pleasant person and you ask them questions. And like you're, they're willing to talk like that A lot of them, especially if they started as under're. They're willing to talk like that A lot of them, especially if they started as underdogs. They're willing to help too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so you surround yourself with them and they you always hear people say is like surround yourself with who you want to be, um, and you also get to pick what you like and what you don't like about, like how they treat people.
Speaker 1:I agree a hundred percent. It's like the parallels are astounding between, um, you and I on that. So get me to the plasma. After giving plasma, um, let's go into like how did working plasma to working in a hamburger stand parlay into like what was next?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So then, um, I was really into fitness. Um, I ended up like kind of like running away from my hometown and moving to North Carolina, which was actually good because the cost of living was much lower. Um, and then I ended up, though, like taking another little step back and I got a job at a frozen yogurt shop and it was minimum wage in North Carolina, $7 and 25 cents, um, and I ended up I ended up moving in with my now ex, but that was like it's such an interesting thing too, because we definitely moved in together way too quick, but it was like it did help, like with us. Our rent was only $800, 800 a month, so we just split, like, and that was like my entire paycheck yeah but like at least we like had our own place.
Speaker 2:Like I remember um getting into this house or like being able to get this house and um being like, wow, I'm so I and I was like, I was so proud of myself, obviously like from, like, from going you know, and um this. But I would have like other people come over who were kind of acquaintances and they'd be like, oh, like it's kind of like outdated and like and like oh, a chain link fence, and I'm like I never even noticed there was a fence.
Speaker 2:It's cool, I have a fenced yard and it's so interesting to like, uh, just the parallels of, like different people's perspectives and stuff.
Speaker 2:But, um, so, yeah, I ended up working at a frozen yogurt shop and then, because I was able to like um, get to, I was able to have a little bit more time. I didn't have two jobs anymore. Um, so I went back to school and I um this was another thing that was really challenging, that I'm sure underdogs faces I didn't have credit and I didn't have anyone who would co-sign for me to get a loan for school, and so I just had to save up money to pay for school out of pocket, and so I would pay, I would save up, and I went to the community college and I really did think that I had to go to college. Like I didn't really understand, like, well, what else could I do? And so I was just, you know, working and then paying for a class here and paying for as much as I could, and but still working.
Speaker 2:Like working, I think, was the best part of like working. But not stay like being so happy to have a job and you're not. You're kind of just like you're getting through, going through the motions, and maybe you're not even doing a good job because you don't care about it. That's also the worst thing you can do.
Speaker 1:Oh, agreed.
Speaker 2:So, like if you're gonna like, if you're gonna stoop down and like, accept what you can get just to do the like, do the best that you can because you'll be more, you'll be like way happier, and like it's the worst thing you can do is have a negative mindset and like you never know what the like people around you are like. If you're a bad worker and you're you're sitting next to someone who's going to own their own business the other day, the next day, then they're never going to give you an opportunity.
Speaker 1:No, you never know who's watching. I tell this story all the time.
Speaker 1:I like I like Cold Stone a lot. And so I go in one day to Cold Stone and this kid's in there and he's like you could be that attitude. It's like I'm just here to scoop ice cream or whatever. Instead, he's got the music up loud, he's kind of rocking out, he takes your order or whatever. He throws the ice cream up into the air and he catches it behind his back and instead of looking at it as his job that he was just going to humdrum through, he did it fantastic. You know, and this was at a point I had just sold my last company. I wasn't ready to jump back in. I was like thinking to myself I would hire that kid.
Speaker 2:I would invest in that kid. I'm going through that process right now because I'm hiring in Arizona, but I'm having a hard time finding really good people. I think good people are just kind of hard to come by in general.
Speaker 1:They are.
Speaker 2:I am actually telling myself I need to go out and, instead of going through the drive-thru, I need to go into the retail stores and talk to people, because the next person that I see is doing a good job. I'm going to ask them for their information and offer them an interview, like that's. That's my, my tactic to find people.
Speaker 1:And even if it wasn't that, you know it's like you do. People are like I'm going to be this crappy worker and then the second I go into my own business, I'm going to be amazing. You can't practice being bad and then being good. And not only that, but if you're a crappy worker in somebody else's business, what's to say? You deserve a good worker some day and it's habits.
Speaker 2:People don't understand that, like your habits really do shape you no matter what you're doing. So exactly what you said. If if you're like an not a great worker here, you might, it's likely that you're not a great worker when you're doing what you actually think you want to do.
Speaker 1:Underdogs are the best workers always, and then, in fact, it actually is a curse at times, because then what happens is like they would actually be the best people to open businesses, but they, uh they, you know, are such a good employee, you know that they stay. You know because they don't know any other way.
Speaker 2:Also we like to um, unfortunately. Fortunately, we like to get the praise from others because we might not have gotten it when we were younger. And so it feels really good to like make others proud, and so sometimes, like I struggle with that today of like I um, I struggle when I like with my own boat business and I'm my own boss, Cause there's no one to tell me like wow, you're doing a great job.
Speaker 2:I don't have anyone to impress besides myself, really, and like that's kind of hard for me, like just being vulnerable, like it's nice to like do a good job for someone else and like I could see, and I think I mean I'm still I'm still young but like I think that if I didn't have that aspect of like a lot of times I've tried to start something on my own, but like when, when I fail myself, it's like, oh, whatever, I'll just go back to work and but like if I fail someone else, I just won't fail someone else.
Speaker 2:So it's like a flaw that I definitely like have, but I've recognized and, um, how I've overcome it is I, uh, I now have an executive assistant and she's amazing, she's.
Speaker 2:Jackie, um, she, um, she's my boss, she is my boss, and like she is my accountability, and like I tell her, like you, you are my boss, like I want to make you proud and I don't want to disappoint you or make your life harder, so she's my boss. And like that's how I get through, like that like underdog kind of flaw of like wanting to like make someone else proud, to get the praise.
Speaker 1:It's tough. You know, when I first started my first companies it was there was a lot of hate involved because people didn't treat me fair. I wasn't given very many opportunities. You know, told I was stupid in my youth, that sort of stuff and that like prove them wrong even though they weren't watching. And what's crazy, actually the guy that gave me the most hell in my life was the assistant principal and it was cause I was the poor kid I smelled like cigarettes, cause my parents smoked. I still have never had a cigarette in my life, you know, and it's like, but anything goes wrong, like I was the one grabbed and I'm not a thief. Anything's stolen grab, tyler, you know it's like and that, and it's crazy.
Speaker 1:I don't wish this on him, on the man, you know it's like, but he was like a lot of times the face I saw anytime I thought about quitting and um, and it was crazy. The day I sold the or signed the dotted line on selling my first company, which I guess that would make, maybe make that was the moment I became success. I don't know that man passed away the very same day. So I think don't know that man passed away, Wow, the very same day. So I think you know and I don't wish that on him by any means, I don't wish his death, but it is crazy that the moment I didn't need it anymore, it wasn't there anymore, right, and so it's like life will get you what you need if you'll pay attention to it.
Speaker 2:The other thing I noticed too is like life is really scary, especially when you don't have money and somehow it like as long as you just keep going, it it like takes care of you, like I've had really like odd things happen to me where I've, you know, I I also like so I got ahead but then I got behind again and then I just think that's like life. I ended up after the whole frozen yogurt shop I, you know, I got I um ended up working myself up into I um got a job at GNC and then it was like really interesting and I worked myself up into management. But then I went through a breakup and I wasn't making that great money. Breakup and I wasn't making that great money. But to me it was better to um get out of that relationship than to have, like security and money.
Speaker 2:And I don't know like I just decided that it'll life will figure itself out. I didn't know how, but I just put myself into a lot of debt to get out of the relationship and um before I knew it. And then I didn't know like sometimes like it'll get harder before it gets. A lot of times it gets harder before it gets better. But like.
Speaker 1:I put myself into what you need, even the hard stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I put myself into a bunch of debt to just like live in, like live on my own, and then, um, I ended up getting a flare up of psoriasis which was like I'd never had psoriasis before and I had this entire my, my whole body was head to toe rash and painful and just um, I went.
Speaker 2:So then I had to put myself into debt for like medical bills because I was just in pain and like this, the UV treatment for it was like the only thing that would help. But it was $80 a session and I kind of got confused, because when you're like in pain you do whatever you know, and I thought that it was $80 before insurance but it was after and it was coming three times a week and then, before I knew it, they're like okay, your bill is due.
Speaker 2:And I'm like what, what is I don't? I thought that, like, I was just all confused, and so I put myself I ended up being a 20, like $5,000 in debt before I knew it. Um, but like, and I'm feeling so lost and not being like not understanding, like even like do I put my, like? I don't even know where to put my paycheck. Like, obviously, I know I need to like pay my rent, like and and feed myself, but with the extra money, like, do I put it on the credit card or do I put it into savings or do I like? And I remember just being so discouraged because, like, the credit card bill was going faster than I could pay it off, and it's just like. Interesting things just kept happening, though, where it would be like an opportunity to make a thousand dollars here with like a um influencer deal, or like um, I went to the dentist and they were like, oh, actually you, um, you overpaid, um and uh, before, like two years ago, and so we owe you $800.
Speaker 1:Awesome.
Speaker 2:And like I'm like wow, it's just like crazy Sometimes, like as long as you just keep going and you just like tell yourself like life will figure itself out, if you just keep being a good person and and just like working hard, it'll figure itself out. And it does like it really does.
Speaker 1:I totally believe in that, and sometimes you have to reframe the hard stuff you're going through. You know it's like I like. I'm not even the only person that says this. I have bad luck. You know, like everything bad that will happen. A lot of times happens to me. I've almost died overseas several times. Stuff's happened to me in business that you'd never even heard of. You know enough to the point where everybody told me to write a book and I did on this bad luck. And so I always looked at myself like at first I described it as Mr Magoo. Do you know, mr Magoo?
Speaker 1:He's a little bit old for you, but he would go like, uh, he'd be walking around, he can't see very well, he walks off a building, which is bad luck, right, but a board would swing in in just in time and save his life. And so Mr Magoo is like this and that's my life for the most part is like something horrible would happen. The beam swings in the way just before catastrophe. And I was looking at my life that way but I can't control that Right and that was not a good mindset for me overall. And then I decided one day I looked, started looking at the story of Rocky, and Rocky was like all this stuff kept going at him, you know, and there's a part that he says basically it was like life's going to throw punches and it's like you got to keep walking forward and it's like, no, I'm not Mr Magoo, I'm Rocky, because life throws stuff at me and I keep walking forward and I can control that.
Speaker 1:Yeah so you have to control your own narrative.
Speaker 2:Well, and the other thing, like again for the underdogs, uh, I remember my like just feeling. Um, like sometimes it's actually kind of hard for me to even like remember how I felt, because I'm so far from that now that like I feel so much better, like mentally and like health wise, and everything that like I can't believe. When I like think about it, I'm like I can't believe I got out of it because it when you're in it, it feels just like treacherous and like that it'll never get better and um, like, it just is a hard place to be right, like. But now I'm, I'm like so much far, farther ahead and I like I forget that I even felt like that ever. Like it's like, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:You could be so close the guy. Have you ever seen the show breaking bad? Okay, do you know the guy that plays Gus the bad guy? He's the uh, I think he's Hispanic or something. He plays the drug Lord, so he actually, um, he was contemplating his own death for the insurance money to leave something behind for his family, literally like within, I think, days of pulling it off.
Speaker 1:And he cast that part, which now I've seen him in all kinds of stuff. So how many people out there are just about to give up? I mean Matt Rife. He toured for eight years, I think, and then one TikTok video launched him to stardom. Mr Beast put out like 550 videos before he hit. It's like everybody is this. If they only knew they were this close. You know, but you only know if you keep going.
Speaker 2:And that's the other thing. When we were talking about, like surrounding yourself with people, like I meet so many people every day and or I do so many different things and just like you never know, like what's going to happen and like what that one thing is going to, that one person that you meet, or the one like piece of content that you put out um that changes your life.
Speaker 1:We're in such a change your life spectrum right now. It could be one YouTube video, it could be one business, it could be one conversation. These things, if you're open to it, will completely change your life. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah and uh. So after, uh, you know, I'm in my my debt and I actually just it wasn't that long ago that I paid off my debt. It was just like I finally got out of it. Like I've kind of just started to like ignore it, because I'm like, oh God, like I actually compared it to people who have student loans, because I thankfully never had student loans because I would just pay out of pocket and I actually never ended up finishing. I just started, I just kept working and working and then being like, wow, now I'm like on track to make more money than I would if I finished school.
Speaker 2:So I kind of I just took a break, and that's. The other thing is, school never goes away. You can go to school at whatever age you are. Like what it's, there's no age limit on school. So like, if you don't want to go to school and you don't like, that's not the only option. Like it really isn't.
Speaker 1:Advice because we change Right and like if you would have put 18 year old me into school, like what he studied compared to I think I like I actually started around 23 and I ended up going into biochemistry that would have never been the 18 year old me track, right, and you know. It's like so you do evolve, you know, and like that's why you're better off getting involved a little bit too, you know. Or like I volunteered at the animal shelter for a couple of years. I originally was on a track to be a vet. I even submitted my documentation to apply for school and then I realized, from being there for years, it's like I want to make an impact.
Speaker 1:I think I can do something better, right, not better More of. I mean, for me business is the impact, right, and I realized that at some point. So to your to cause I think it's such a great point I want to back it up is that school doesn't need to be today. Yeah, experience it. And then, if you want to graduate more into that realm, it's like, let's say you want to be a doctor, maybe go work at a doctor's office for a little while Vets office, you know, like law law office and then you might find out that, like you know how many doctors end up quitting yeah, it's like 70%.
Speaker 2:Or you see how miserable they are. And you're like.
Speaker 1:Dennis are the number one people that commit suicide. You know it's like, so might as well go try it out first. To your point.
Speaker 2:Yeah and uh, going to community college was really helpful because I was surrounded by people like of all ages and it it uh exposed me to like oh, I really can like come back.
Speaker 2:I'm not it's not surrounded by like a bunch of 20, 21 year olds Like it's a big room full of like misfits that are like just trying to do better for themselves and like I could go back whenever I want it, if I, if I needed it, you know community college is an excellent environment for that reason, because it's like I never experienced the party culture of university. Right, I just got the work part. I'm so glad that I didn't get caught up in it.
Speaker 1:And that's why I think community college is a good step, because that's all the people that are working right. University is like there's a half there that are just getting paid to be there, you know, or their parents are paying for them to be there. They get to have all the fun they want, you know. It's like I think it's a better environment to start to like buckle down.
Speaker 2:And it's like a little bit demoralizing. I remember so I did, uh, before I went to a university for one semester and I really like felt like shit being around people who could like go out and party because I needed to go work, so I could like I couldn't even afford to party, like I couldn't afford one drink or anything, so like it just is demoralizing to be like around it. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Plus, they have all the time in the world all the time and like yeah, it's like sad, it's just like a not a happy place to be.
Speaker 1:I went. So my undergrad was biochemistry and, uh, it's a long story, which I'm sure I've told on this podcast or will, why I chose that track. But it was mostly I wanted to be helpful in the world and I wanted to have a skill, and so I was looking at medicine or veterinary and I remember I went in like um, uh, this is year two and I'm working full time cause I have to. My dad had just gotten out of prison. I was supporting both of us. You know it's like, and I'm going to school full time in a biochemistry track.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is a lot of work, right? And I go in and see the counselor, um, to talk about med school and she's like you're not making enough sacrifices. You know you need extracurriculars, you need all this stuff, and it's like not making enough sacrifices. You know it's like and that's. You know that's. That's frustrating to that point. You know it's like, but like it gave me everything I needed to know within school. You know it gave me the education. It gave me the work ethic. You know it's like business. It perfectly prepared me for business because those amount of hours and stress parlayed into business at some point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and uh, sometimes it makes me a little bit like I have to remember that like, uh, the underdog work ethic is not like what you should expect out of everyone, or you can't, because like you'll just get disappointed, because I, when people will like complain about uh work and stuff, I'm like oh, but you're only working 40 hours a week. What are you?
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:It feels like part time you have all of the time in the world and like this is all you have to worry about. And it's really hard for me to like, but I do have to remind myself like not everyone is built like that and they didn't have to do that. So, like, just have a little bit more compassion, Zoe, but it's like it's kind of hard.
Speaker 1:Or I can't get to the gym, I work 40 hours a week, or like you know. It's like like that's what I want. Our, our, our underdogs are important to understand. It's like this actually is good thing that you have to work two jobs.
Speaker 1:It's a good thing that you have to work two jobs and find out where you're. Uh, you know like your fitness is going to come in, because then you're perfectly prepared for business, cause I don't care what anybody tells you on the internet and vouch for me here. Is it 20 hours a week in all vacations? No, no, yeah, they're lying to them out there. That's a big part of what this show is, because you see the content. I see, hey, the guy sitting in the Ferrari that he probably rented, saying buy, my course, it's a hundred dollars and you'll never have to work again.
Speaker 2:The course, actually this like Scottsdale, but there's a lot of course people here. I'm like, yeah, I try to like make business friends and I'm like, oh wait, you're a course person and I get it. I respect the grind. But then I'm like I I've been recently kind of been chased down by some of these course people who like want to use like my face in their course and I'll ask them like well, what are like the success stories from your course, like do you talk to?
Speaker 1:and I've never been able to give me like a no, they're the product and I'm all right If somebody has an amazing course that's doing something, but I find nine times out of 10, it's like you're the product. They've never opened a business. They're going to teach you how to open your business. You know it's like well, like I've. You know for a long time, but like officially, like the last four years and um and like it was funny. When I first started doing a long time ago, it was like people like me, they just didn't know any better. They needed a place to get more education. You know it's like, even with your debt, I could tell you how to take care of your debt right now. That would have been the right way.
Speaker 1:I could tell me too, yeah, at the time you don't know, right, and that's, that's the business stuff too. So that was the first kind of like grayness for people you know. And then, like now it's nine times out of 10, when I'm looking at a failing business, it's because they've hired a consultant that doesn't know what they're doing. So the consultants, the coaches, are now destroying the businesses.
Speaker 2:Oh, I've seen it. That's actually um, my business now is really like cleaning up after messes and like like, yeah, it's pretty sad to see like bad things happen to in people's businesses when they trust someone that like said they know what they're doing.
Speaker 1:That's what it is. It's the accountants, it's the marketers. They're all robbing you and that's why my stance on all this. I got a lot of hate because I was talking about Alex Formosi. Do you know who that is? So he had a video I watched on leverage and he was talking about how to use your leverage to have success. But the problem is people like you and I, when we start what's the leverage Like? You have to think of a board laying flat on the ground, because leverage eventually becomes money, people, that sort of stuff. So if you're levering off nothing, it's nothing right, and so you have to learn this stuff. Even in my MBA program, they don't teach me how to be the world's best marketer. They teach me enough to manage it, and that's what I want people doing in their small businesses. Learn the marketing so you can manage it. Learn the accounting. You don't need to know everything, but know enough to manage it, and that's where you have to start when you're a bootstrapper anyways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or just like I don't. I've been actually trying to figure out if this is just like a me thing or like if everyone can do it. But I'd hope. I kind of like hope everyone can do it, but like just teach yourself how to do different things, like try it try it, and sometimes it's confusing to me that, like when um people will come to me and they're like, well, I don't know how to do it, and I'm like, well, like did you try and because that's sometimes with my business, and again I have to be like more compassionate.
Speaker 2:But this is where the underdogs really like have an advantage. Is that, like I, I refuse to just like not know how to do something. You teach yourself how to do something and there's so many resources now Everything's on the internet and my whole business. I never had someone sit down and show me how to do it. No, I just figured it out and I do. I've recently also learned that I have like a neurodivergent brain, if you know what that means.
Speaker 2:Um, but they I, so I am a problem solver and I do think, like think of things in a different way. So maybe I and I think that is a beautiful thing, but, um, still, I think that everyone has like that problem solving in them and so, like, if you're a problem solver, then you can figure anything out. And so sometimes it just like drives me crazy when people are like, well, I can't figure out how to do it and I'm like how, like no one showed me how to do it on it, it's like I rebelled against accounting like anybody else when I first started my first business and I actually have a three hour like story that I tell now on how I rebelled and how I became the biggest accounting nerd out there.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, and I love accounting because it's the only way to get good data for your business. You know, it's like I absolutely live for it and I love kind of like laying that out for people to solving that problem. But it's like, to your point, the more that you're willing to dive in, you should build your first website. You know you should build your first marketing plan. You know it's like you should build all these things.
Speaker 2:How to not get scammed is knowing the fundamentals.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:So, like you don't need to know you don't have to be good at everything, but like know the fundamentals so that if, when you hire help, you know you're not getting scammed. That's you have to protect yourself.
Speaker 1:There's a great pod episode of my podcast. The guy was a landscaper, built his way up from one lawnmower to a $30 million business, sold it, opened a tech company and the first thing he did, you know, like what anybody else would do is he hired a bunch of people. He didn't know anything about technology and they robbed him blind. So he ended up going back and learning it enough to manage it. And I want people to know things enough to manage it. Right, if you get lucky and you happen to come across that one company that's like you or me that you can rely on as a team bait, by all means, you know, but bootstrappers, you don't get that Cause you got to do it yourself. You don't have the money for us, you know. And so, um, get me next to. Okay, zoe moves out, right, uh, with her boyfriend struggling financially, you get past the medical stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, um, then I'm uh, I had a couple really like hard living situations too, because that's the other thing you kind of have to like live where you, where you can, and just that's going to be like as safe as you can get it so um, lots of struggle throughout that of like, yeah, bad living situations, unsafe things.
Speaker 2:Um, my, when I I ended up moving back to Chicago and uh, thinking that like how glamorous it is like downtown Chicago, I'll manage a GNC there and not good being on any store on the bottom floor of Chicago is very scary.
Speaker 2:My store got like we had a security guard and the security guard like got jumped in like they beat the shit out of them and the security guard, like got jumped in, like they beat the shit out of them blood everywhere, uh, just people stealing shit all the time and like, uh, I ended up just feeling so, like threatened by gang members, and like it was just not a good time and, um, I fought through it but I probably should have like left way sooner than I did.
Speaker 2:But it you know it's scary when you have a consistent uh paycheck and like you know you're not like you don't want to be there, but like you're not really sure what the next step is.
Speaker 2:But I was always doing things outside of work that were like um, building my personal brand, so like awesome putting content out there for, uh, fitness, um stuff and and in connecting with others like virtually, and so I feel like that kind of like has always been a theme of like networking. And then I got a offer, so I got through it. I ended up moving to I almost quit because of the threatened, being threatened by the gang. Stuff was really scary and I didn't feel safe and so I told them, like, if I'm, if I, if you don't put me at another store, I'm just quitting and I will figure it out. Um, so they put me at another store and I ended up meeting um again, like just like by luck or chance or being the right place, the right time and working hard, uh and doing a good job. While I was doing it, I met the owners of Ghost and they're this energy drink supplement company.
Speaker 2:Ghost was under two years old and I was going to be leaving GNC because I finally had enough credit to get a loan so that I could just focus on school. Wow and so I was leaving GNC and I wanted to be a dietician, and so when they heard that I was leaving. They they asked me if I wanted to apply for a part-time customer support job with them.
Speaker 2:And I almost said no because I was like I felt like it was a step in the in the wrong direction, because I was just managing I had, um, at this point managed, five different GNCs.
Speaker 2:And so going from like managing GNCs to part-time customer support for a supplement company that's not even two years old this like little cool supplement company at the time, but like it they're nothing Um, I almost said no because I just felt like it was like a step in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2:But I um also had these kinds of like aspirations and goals and, um, wanting to, I I wanted maybe one day to own my own supplement company, and so I told myself, like, even if anything it's, it'll be good. Like behind the scenes and like so I can learn what it's like to own a supplement company or be like do all the things. And so I took it, and it was that that, like by itself, was probably the best thing I've ever done in my life, because it taught me how to run an e-commerce business with my eyes closed. I was fixing all of the problems for the company through the customer's eyes, and so I got obsessed with learning how to you know your job essentially starts at just responding to emails, but to actually do the job, you need to know all of the tech and how it?
Speaker 2:all cooperates. And then, if you want to make a difference, you're going to figure out how to fix the issues so they don't happen again. And you're going to learn how to like take the feedback from the customers that are upset and you're going to tell the founders in a in a tactical way of how to like how you think that they can change this in the company. And so I learned how to operate all the tech the tech. I learned how to work in Shopify. I learned how to cross-functionally collaborate with the operations, logistics, warehouses, 3pls. I ended up like also learning all like all kinds of marketing things, because people would like a link would be broken in an email and so.
Speaker 2:I'd I'd bring that up and say where, how do you even fix this? Or like, what system did this come from? Or what's the strategy? And um, influencer marketing and uh all like literally everything from customer support.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I got really addicted to it and I ended up like, um, yeah, I moved my way up from part-time to full-time and uh, I remember like going into the office one day and Dan would look and be like aren't you supposed to be in class? And like, yeah, uh, I just didn't feel like going today. And then, like, slowly but surely, I I stopped going to class, even though I it's at the time like feel would feel so dumb because I worked so hard to get into that goddamn dietetics program at university of Illinois in Chicago.
Speaker 2:Like I worked so hard to get into that goddamn dietetics program at university of Illinois in Chicago. Like I worked so hard to get there but I don't know. I just like I was so like fixated on learning all of this e-commerce stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and so then I'd even um, got to like yeah, so I just ended up um working full time, and then I got uh promoted eventually to the customer support manager, and then I would do, I would go um and like go, we opened up our own warehouse, so I would fly to Vegas and um, like help them talk, tell them about like how annoying it is when, like warehouses send the wrong product.
Speaker 2:And like what can we do to make sure that every product is scanned and checked so we never have to deal with like issues?
Speaker 1:And that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Worked with the quality, the quality of, like any type of complaint. I created processes for um lot code tracking and all of this stuff, and I um, I taught everything to myself too, because by just being curious and asking questions uh I even to the point where, like sometimes people will be like, can you stay in your lane?
Speaker 2:And I used to be like, oh God, that like maybe I should stay in my lane, but I just wanted to know how to do everything. And like I saw that like there was all of these different functions that like I could learn about and I would just ask questions and I would be a little bit, probably annoying and learn how to do it and then be told to stay in my lane and be like, oh sorry, like you know, but um, that taught me so much. And then, um, random, we came out with a gaming product, I. So one of my things was a, uh, doing the twitch, helping out with the Twitch community.
Speaker 1:Oh cool.
Speaker 2:So then I learned how to do the Twitch community. Covid happened, so then I would do my normal job, whatever 9 to 7, really, or 8 to 7. It was a lot during COVID. And then I would manage the Twitch community and then, as a joke, I would play games with the Twitch community too. As, like a joke, I would like play games with the Twitch community too, and like stream with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So then I just started, I was like playing games with them anyway. So I was like you know what, if I'm going to play games that I'm going to stream too, cause, like I'll just press, go live, you know. And I learned how to do it. So you think you know somebody yeah, so then I started streaming and making more money part-time streaming eventually. Wow, and I was at my job that I loved playing video games and streaming it. Yeah, after work.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Uh. Then I got an Instagram DM and it said uh, we think you'd be great for this uh TV show. And I was like uh, I thought it was like there's no way this is real, you know it's just. Instagram DM and then I started looking up like who this person was and it was like a casting uh, whatever director and um they. They were like. We have this new um TV show and it'll be on this new streaming platform called Peacock.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:And I was like this sounds like such a scam, Like there's like, and it, um, it's filmed in Australia, which it was 2021 at the time, and you couldn't get into Australia because of COVID. They didn't let anyone in, um. But then I I just was looking it up I'm like I think this is legit. So I did the interview process and it took like six to eight months to. And I'm like I think this is legit. So I did the interview process and it took like six to eight months to, and I kept forgetting that I was like in this interview process because every once in a while, I'd get a call and be like oh, hey, um, so-and-so the producers really like you, uh, do you? Are you like you're ready for the next step? And I just kept doing these steps every couple of months and then, all of a sudden, it was like I just kept doing these steps every couple of months and then, all of a sudden, it was like, okay, well, if you want to go?
Speaker 2:we're, we're um, we are sending everyone in like five weeks or something crazy. And I was like, oh shit, I have to tell Dan and Ryan like it goes, like, like, and talk to them Like should I do this? I don't even know if this like streaming platform is legit, like it's not. I've never heard of this before. Um, and so I ended up just taking a leap of faith and doing it, and so and I told myself, like, if it doesn't work out like, I could always go, like they would you know, give me my job back at ghost and um, and I also was like, well, I'm making good money playing video games.
Speaker 2:Like, I'll just do that If like whatever, who knows, I don't know. So I went to Australia. I quit my job, I went to Australia. I filmed this little TV show. It's on Peacock, it's um, it's called Frogger, it's like a wipeout type show. And it didn't give me like and like anything besides like.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know did you guys know we have the Frogger person here.
Speaker 2:Episode four Um or no, yeah, season person here episode four, um or no, yeah season one, episode four. I'm like the gamer girl because that's awesome recruited me because I was in gaming and fitness. Oh okay, like it it does go to show like anything you like you explore. It's crazy how it all like can connect. Like if I never put myself out there about gaming, I would have never had this cute little opportunity to be on peacock and and be on the show, and we don't even know how you might use that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and then I went home.
Speaker 1:In the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was. I mean, there's so many things like so many ways my life could have gone to. Because which is cool? Because before you take what you can get. Yeah, and now opportunity is so abundant.
Speaker 1:You get to choose, you know like, which is crazy.
Speaker 2:And so, like all of these, like there was a lot of people who are on the show who, like that's what they did, they would like do all of these little like reality shows. And then, like one guy that I was on the show with, he ended up being in the Barbie movie.
Speaker 2:Oh, no way Like that's, and it was kind of cool to see like, oh, this is how people like get into it. They do like all these in and the crazy thing is, once you get through your background check for these, these things, they're looking for people.
Speaker 2:So, you're like, once you have your background check, like they'll send you emails, like we want people for this show and this show, and you can go on, like all these or apply for all these shows, because they simply, like need some people who have already gone through the long process of the background check and they just need bodies, like wow. So I could have like leaned into that if I really wanted to. Um, but I was gaming.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I played video games full time, paying my not making crazy money, but like I paid my bills, playing video games. Video games full-time paying, not making crazy money, but like I paid my bills playing video games Um.
Speaker 1:what was your game?
Speaker 2:Uh, war zone Okay. It was so fun I wasn't good at it it was more like a entertaining with, like you know, it was like a podcast with like games in the background.
Speaker 1:Basically, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was so fun, so fun.
Speaker 1:So what did you do when you went back?
Speaker 2:So then I got recruited. So then again going to show work hard and other opportunities will come. The old accountant at Ghost worked at Chomp's the meat sticks. He ended up going there and they were looking for a customer experience manager, which I was at that point not really wanting to get back into e-commerce because, um, I I know I loved it so much, but it was stressful because I'm fixing all these issues and mad customers, and yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so it is like a lot. And then I you put a lot on your shoulders because you're the, you're the like fixer, you know.
Speaker 2:So, it is a really like, even though you, you learn everything. It's a hard job and um. So I wasn't. I was like I, I'm not. Uh, so the guy from um, he, he was trying to recruit me or get me to come work at chomps and I kept saying no, because again I'm like, I don't want to sell meat sticks Like it was. Chomps wasn't as big as it is, as it is today.
Speaker 2:But, like I just was, like that doesn't seem glamorous to me, Like selling meat sticks I'm not really trying to be the meat stick girl and so I said no, like two or three times. And he kept messaging me, being like you should at least take the interview, just take the interview because, like uh, it is a great company and you know, I did miss, like the um, the fulfilling parts of it, the teamwork, and like the problem solving problem solving all of that Um cause.
Speaker 2:gaming and playing on Twitch like really there's only like two things you can get better at the game or you can and you can grow your audience, but like that's kind of it. You know it's not as fulfilling as you'd think but it was fun.
Speaker 1:I have so many questions about that, but I don't think it'll help underdogs we can.
Speaker 2:We can connect on it later, but it is like, yeah, just um yeah, I don't want them all out there playing video games. It's a good like side income. That's another thing. Like I, if I could just play video games and like street, you could stream on your phone and like, build an audience on your phone and make money Like I could have been doing that, instead of donating plasma, people should always be throwing their hat in the ring on things you know it's like every time you make a post on social media.
Speaker 1:It's throwing your hat in the ring. You know it's like you get to for free. Throw a dart at the dartboard every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and people are so worried about like, oh, what if the people from high school see my posts and make fun of me? I used to worry about that too, but like we all do. Yeah, and now I never think about it, but it used to be like every time before I post something I'm like oh, this is kind of cringy, you know, but like those are usually the ones that help people the most.
Speaker 1:you know, the one that you don't want to put out in the world, like when I start talking about welfare and my childhood. That's not easy for me. These are things I used to never talk about five years ago, but they are the ones that get the most, like people in my DM saying, hey, thank you for this, or I came from this, or like, thank you so much for, like, the impact this had on me, you know, and so it's the stuff that you don't want to do that actually has the most impact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and yes. And you never know what kind of opportunities that like something, some silly idea you have in your head and if you act on it it's going to give you.
Speaker 1:It's. I mean like everything in life. If you'll follow up, like like I'm a really big fan of documentaries, nine times out of 10, I'm reaching out to the person from the documentary and I've made the best connections and pen pals that way. You know it's like and people that I admire as heroes are now like people that check in on me. You know it's like, cause they're just people you never know. You know it's like. That's why you totally have to do it. And like one of my favorite speeches is Steve jobs speech and I think he was to Yale or Harvard. You can look it up. But it's like connecting the dots and you know, and Steve Jobs talks about all these random occurrences in your life and that's what I'm putting together with your story is like all these random things and then they eventually they don't make any sense, right? They're all jumbled. You know it's like documentaries and you know game shows and playing video games and customer service. It's like hamburger making.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make sense, yeah.
Speaker 1:Doesn't make sense looking forward, but when you get to the where you're going, you look backwards and it's all perfect. It's all it's a perfect alignment to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and yeah, even recently. I know I keep like fast forwarding, going back whatever, but like I just was at a e-commerce conference and I got a DM and they were like I can't believe I missed you. This is um, uh, I shouldn't say his name, but he, it was someone that was I would game with sometimes and he's like I was at that conference too.
Speaker 2:This is crazy that we're both in in commerce now and like like, and then we connected and we realized we have like all of these like, like we could connect the dots with each other and like help each other and like we're so passionate about it because when you like, when you're in this like Twitch community and that is something that like, if someone's ever feeling lonely, uh, go on Twitch and find just just like, put Twitch on in the background and find someone that you vibe with and interact with them in the chat, like someone who's like has less than a hundred viewers and they'll talk to you and you can go and be their friend every single day.
Speaker 1:I hear the same thing about World of Warcraft.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, the gaming community is like I think the gaming community saves lives, like it's a lot of people who are introverts, who feel lonely, and like we're not really alone. We're not supposed to be alone as humans, even if it's like what you feel, like you want, it's a very like you don't have to be alone, even if you want to stay inside, you know. And so, like I made the best like friendships in the Twitch community because I was like hanging out with these people, either playing games with them or talking to them on my chat, like the same people would come and say hi and like I knew all about them and like, yeah, you, just this beautiful community and, um, yeah, it's crazy, cause now like, uh, connecting the dots, like years later, of of people I used to game with and like.
Speaker 2:I also used that knowledge of knowing what it's like to be a gamer to put it towards gaming influencing projects in chomps multiple times and like also knowing how to like lean into your gaming communities for influencing projects because those communities are so loyal. Like you can go to a gamer who has, um, you know, less than a thousand followers on Instagram and then they have like 70 people in their chat like all the time it's only only 70 people. Those 70 people are so loyal.
Speaker 1:I mean that's they're starting to look at more into that Like in supposed to the person that has 6 million. You know it's like. And the other thing is folks. It's like if you do get to any sort of level, be nice. You know it's like a story of Chris Chris rock that I read not too long ago.
Speaker 1:He was, you know, picked on mercilessly. He was bullied really bad as a kid. They used to turn him upside down and steal his change and stuff. And randomly he's on the set of like one of his major movies and one of his bullies is working on the set and he's like talking about this later. He's like dude, if you would have just been decent to me, you would have been in the trailer with me watching the God follower. Instead you're sitting outside manning your post. You know it's like and like. I'm not saying it because there's a reward system to it, but it's like treat people with kindness. You know it's like and like and ultimately in some position like that, it's like look, he could have been in the trailer. You know it's like. Or those communities, like, be nice to those communities. You know it's like they're the one going to be one to support your business, your life when you're down, you know those sorts of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so sometimes like so today, like I have, um, I have my own podcast too and I have my own business and I do these things and a lot of my like gaming community will support me by just like watching my stuff, even though it has nothing to do with them, but they just are like supporters of supporters of me, because I we just like hung out every day.
Speaker 2:Like it like it was it's such a good community. Um, but then I ended up um, accepting the job at chomps, getting back into e-commerce and uh randomly, uh, getting this award for customer experience. Operator of the year.
Speaker 1:Um. What does that award look like?
Speaker 2:It's. It's a little like can like it was like a, like a subscription company, that tech company that gave it and, uh, the person I didn't know that there was, like these, the there's like the course business influencers. But then, there's also the business influencers who are like operators in business, who are posting on LinkedIn and X and posting like really tactical things, like if you work brand side. There's like those like real business influencers out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't know any of this at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But those were the people who were presenting the awards. And so this like business influencer Ron Shaw, he presented me my award and I didn't know who he was. And, um, after that the award, he asked me if I would consult. And I didn't even know what that meant. I didn't know what the word consultant meant. I was like I don't consult, but like I'll get on a call with you and like see how I can help. And he's like, well, what are your rates? And I'm like I don't, like you don't have to pay me.
Speaker 2:Just don't like, let's just talk Like, so let's see how I can, and that was one of the things that helped me get rid of my imposter syndrome.
Speaker 2:I got on this call and he this like business influencer was asking me questions and I was looking into his business and I knew how to fix every single thing, every problem he had, and I was like holy shit, I do know what I'm talking about. And then I sat with him for an hour. I didn't charge him, cause I, honestly, if he, if, if he made me like give him a rate, I probably would have told him like $20. Yeah, like, I like actually thought that's like what I was worth, like $20 an hour.
Speaker 2:Crazy Isn't it, and so I just sat with him for free and we went through all of this, and then afterwards he tweeted just sat with Zoe Khan for an hour, um, and I want to tear down my business and redo it.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And that tweet got so much traction in my I didn't have, I wasn't on Twitter, I my Twitter DMs got like flooded and people like can you, can you meet with me? Can you meet with me?
Speaker 1:That's incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even thinking back to it, like if that happened to me today, I'd be like holy shit. Yeah, all these leads and stuff. I was like terrified. I'm like, oh God, I don't know if I can help all these people, but I, um, I just helped as many people as I could that I had time for for free, until people started sending me money. Um, and people would send me like $200 for like a half an hour and I'd be like you must have put an extra zero, Like you there's no way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's no way, and um, but then so, like then I was just getting so much, I was still working full time too. So, um, and, and then I started consulting and were like actually consulting, and you know I would, I would charge people if I like felt like I didn't have time, you know. And then so I just slowly started like charging people and um, then people would say, okay, this is great, You're telling me how to do it, but can you do it for me? And I was like no, I'm selling meat sticks, I'm too busy Um and playing video games.
Speaker 2:Yeah and um. So then I said no to like the implementation part of like actually doing for a while and then it just kept like people kept asking. And then the other thing was I didn't know anyone. I was looking but like I didn't know anyone in the space that like, did what I? What would I do the way I do it? Because, again, I taught myself how to do it and like.
Speaker 2:I'm just like a psychopath and I like like things done the right way, and so I didn't have anyone to like send these people to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So then, um, it kind of made me sad that, like I was just turning these people away and being like sorry I can't help you and I don't have anyone to send you to.
Speaker 1:You and I are so similar.
Speaker 2:So then I decided that I would hire someone that.
Speaker 2:I used to work with and that I trusted and they did a good job and I would teach them like any like missing gaps from like when I used to work with her till now and everything I learned. And so I hired her and I gave you know she would work on like the implementation while I was working at Chumps and then I would still consult in the morning and at night and on weekends and I would do implementation on the weekends and I just grinded and did that for like two years of working full-time and doing this agency Like and then that's when it turned into an agency is when I like hired help. Um, I did it part-time, literally, actually just till January.
Speaker 2:It was like technically last year, like my, my full-time job was like a client of the agency on paper, but I was like full-time, just like one client, and then the agency was kind of like operating on its own and I just decided to like really go agency full time just in January.
Speaker 1:And that's inevitable.
Speaker 2:That's inevitable. So now I have an inevitable agency and, um, we have like over a hundred employees now from cause I've got overseas. Um, I ended up opening up a BPO staffing agency because that was also a need that I didn't see anyone do really well and I wanted like it done well.
Speaker 2:And I was sick of like making bad recommendations to people that didn't work out, because I thought they were good agencies and then they didn't. So I just like get fed up and I'm like you know what, I'm going to figure out how to do it all myself, you know that's so.
Speaker 1:It like I, I, folks I don't always know every piece of everybody's story and like it's so like similar, it's like you know, like every part of it. You know it's like I had the same imposter syndrome. And then the next thing, I know I'm in a billion dollar company fixing something that the biggest CPA uh, and then accounting is not even my total thing and I'm fixing this stuff and then it's like you start to believe a little bit more. And then you like, look into like a lot of business and you're like nobody's got good accounting, nobody's got good marketing, you know. And like you're trying to find somebody. Hey, who can I connect you to? I'm known as this rainmaker. If I can find people that are actually decent, I will refer you for free, but I will make people's full businesses that way these days. You know it's like, but then when you can't find anybody, you know it's like and that's what you did. You couldn't find anybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you became the solution.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and uh yeah and it just. And the other thing is like it comes from giving as much as you can before you take to.
Speaker 1:I agree 1000% it really like.
Speaker 2:I think that because I gave so much and I still give, like I'll still give time when, when I have clients who are struggling, like because business is hard, when I've got clients who are struggling and they can't like they they want our help but they can't afford the invoices Like I will trade my time to help them as much as I can, as long as I know I'm not being taken advantage of because I want.
Speaker 2:I just know that if they succeed, they'll. We will succeed, you know. We, it will all succeed together and no one has to struggle. And if, if someone's struggling and you can help them, then help them, you know.
Speaker 1:I agree a hundred percent and then like to the point of this kind of the soul of this show. It's like the more we help people that are kindhearted and good people and they can find their success, they help other people. Your story aligns so much with mine. I knew, like certain components. I knew we both gave plasma for a meal, you know, and like I knew some of the other stuff I didn't know how well, I didn't know how similar a path, I didn't know how similar messaging. Um, I wanted to get to where we were going to talk about that customer service journey for people and we'll just do another episode.
Speaker 2:We'll have to do another episode.
Speaker 1:Because I think, like I let the story unfold here on Underdogs, you know, and it's like it's anything that's good for you folks. And then today what I felt was really good is Zoe's story. You know, it's like and we'll have to come back because, as you heard, her experience is really this customer service journey. So I want you to get that as small business people. But her story today was like it was worth the hour and thank uh, thank you for sticking with us a little longer than usual. Zoe. Like I'm going to abruptly to cut this off, Cause I know you have to do more, but like, thank you so much for sharing the story. I want you to tell the people where you can be found before we wrap up Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I like it's an honor to tell my story. So, um, and there's so much to it. It's hard to like really get to get to the point, kind of thing, but um, yeah, the journey's worth it. It is. It is worth it. Um, so you can find me on social media, basically everywhere. Um, zoe Khan Z O E K A H N-N. And. So if someone has made it to the end of this video, so maybe you put a little clip in the beginning. Stick to the end of the video for a surprise.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:I'll give away a couple of free mentoring sessions.
Speaker 1:Oh, amazing.
Speaker 2:To give to the underdogs, If anything, if anything resonated with you guys and you feel like you want a free 30 minutes hour.
Speaker 1:I'd like to give that back. So she's amazing at what she does. I think it starts from the base level. You, you see the problem at the customer. I'm big on experience in business too, and that's what you're kind of talking. You're, you're online. I've always been brick and mortar. You know it's like, but it's the same piece, right, it's like. If it's not fixed here, it can't be fixed. They're Incredible story. I can't believe how much like it, just like. It bolsters every single message I have. I don't know how many we hit across If you watch the show consistently. You saw that today and we will have to circle around again and get to customer experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can. Okay, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Folks, too many messages today. Let me know in the comments what you picked up, what you'd like to see from Zoe next time. We'll beg her to come back. Once again, thanks for tuning in to Underdogs. See you next week. Hello and welcome to Underdogs, bootstrappers and Game Changers. This is for those of you that are starting with nothing and using business to change their stars, motivating people who disrupted industry standards. This is the real side of business. This isn't Shark Tank. My aim with this podcast is to take away some of the imaginary roadblocks that are out there. I want to help more underdogs, because underdogs are truly who change the world. This is part of our Content for Good initiative. All the proceeds from the monetization of this podcast will go to charitable causes. It's for the person that wants it.
