WHAT WORKING WITH THE DYING TAUGHT THIS SUCCESSFUL ENTREPRENEUR ABOUT LIFE

Spending her career around people in their final chapter reshaped how this entrepreneur looks at success. 

In this episode, Tiana talks about how building a hospice business forced her to rethink work, leadership, and what really matters when everything else falls away.

She shares how growing up in a small Arizona town and later founding a major hospice and palliative care organization gave her a front row seat to the truths most people never hear. We talk about end of life clarity, building a mission driven company, choosing the right partners, and staying grounded as a business grows.

This conversation is honest, practical, and eye opening. If you care about building a meaningful business and a life you will stand behind long term, this one will stay with you.

Chapters

• 0:00 Mission Of The Show And Guest Intro
• 0:42 Tiana’s Small-Town Roots In Arizona
• 8:20 Service Industry Lessons That Shape Leaders
• 16:40 Employer Mindset, Will, And Real Consulting
• 27:05 Breaking Into Hospice And Early Wins
• 36:46 Death, Perspective, And What Matters
• 46:20 Purpose Before Profit And Market Saturation
• 54:28 Relationships, Entrepreneurs, And Dating Realities
• 1:05:10 Growth, Palliative Care, And The Exit

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:02

Hello and welcome to Underdogs, Bootstrappers, and Game Changers. This is for those of you that are starting with nothing and using business to change their stars. Motivating people who disrupted industry standards. This is the real side of business. This isn't Shark Tank. My aim with this podcast is to take away some of the imaginary Roblox that are out there. I want to help more underdogs because underdogs are truly to change the world. This is part of our Content for Good initiative. All the proceeds from the monetization of this podcast will go to charitable causes. It's for the person that wants it. Hello and welcome to another episode of Underdogs, Bootstrappers, and Game Changers. And as usual, I'm so excited because I have a special guest for you today, my dear friend Tiana.

SPEAKER_02: 0:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 0:54

How are you?

SPEAKER_02: 0:54

I am so excited today. It was raining. It was raining here in Phoenix. I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 0:59

I hate the rain.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00

I know you do, but I love it. I'm an Arizona native. We dig it once in a while.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05

That's that's why I hide here, you know? And so I brought you on today, and I I tell the audience quite often like what I'm up to. Okay. Um, I always have an angle that I'm going for and like a learning lesson. And sometimes it's like something I wish I would have had, or something I've been exploring, or something I think they need um to be really like impactful in life or in business. And I think that um luckily we know each other and I know some stuff about your story. And so, yes, very successful businesswoman. We're gonna touch on that stuff today, too.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37

But what's intriguing to me beyond that, as you know, I'm a business nerd, is like the business you were in and the life-changing things that you were exposed to. So, today in this episode, folks, you're in for a real treat because not only are we gonna touch on business, we're gonna touch on life importance.

SPEAKER_04: 1:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:56

And you're also dating coach these days. We're gonna talk about that too. Because like one of the most impactful episodes I ever had of underdogs with was was with Jun Lynn Toller, who was on the divorce court for 10 years, right? And I believe the most important thing that you can do in life is choose the right partner. So I want to talk to you a little bit about that too. So that's what you're in store for today, underdogs. So where do we start? Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_02: 2:19

Where did well I grew up here in Arizona, born in Tempe, Mesa, Arizona, okay? And then I moved to Payson when I was nine. Wow. So had a flavor of the small town and stayed there until I was 17. And I think when I look back, and I was just up there two weeks ago visiting with some of my old high school friends, it was so formative to be in an environment like that and to be exposed to not only the small town vibe, but just good, wholehearted people who were entirely different than my family, than what I was raised with, what I was accustomed to, what I saw on the norm. And I think it's extremely important to um how it helped me do all sorts of things today. I think it was just a relatable factor. So so many people are in their silos, right? They know what they know, they know the kind of people that they do, and they don't look outward. And being raised in Payson really gave me a different perspective.

SPEAKER_01: 3:18

What's how many people are in Payson at this time?

SPEAKER_02: 3:20

So now probably 20,000 um in town. And then, of course, you've got the surrounding areas. But when I moved up there, it was like 7,000.

SPEAKER_01: 3:28

Yeah, this was a small town.

SPEAKER_02: 3:30

It was a small town.

SPEAKER_01: 3:31

Folks, uh, Arizona has this place called Payson that people what kind of like uh drive through.

SPEAKER_02: 3:36

Yeah, yeah, and then you stop at the McDonald's to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_01: 3:38

Yep, uh-huh and then it's like it there's a little bit of uh like forest and that stuff, so people go up there to go camping and that sort of stuff. Yeah, so it's kind of like getaway place here, but very small townish, very like country townish, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_02: 3:50

Yes, it's it's kind of the in-between to go to all your other destinations. So Payson starts the largest Ponderosa pine forest um in the country. And so people don't know that about Arizona. They think the desert, and of course we've got that. Yeah, but you've got the landscapes of Sedona, and then you get to northern Arizona, and it's beautiful pine um country and forest and camping and lakes and streams and creeks and snow and all sorts of things. So uh yeah, so growing up in Payson with that small town town vibe was really cool because my dad was oh, you've heard me talk about my dad a little bit before, but my dad was a remarkable, remarkable man. Yeah, he was a doctor, a lawyer, a computer engineer, crazy, uh, national geographic photographer. This man was so freaking smart. When he was 14 years old, he took the SATs and scored a 1596. So he went to Columbia, Harvard, uh, Stanford, medical school, all of these places. Wow. And what was interesting is for somebody to be so smart, he actually had a very humble persona.

SPEAKER_05: 4:52

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 4:53

Um, but a lot of common sense, probably not. And like when people, you know, so book smart, not street smart. Yeah, but even then, some a little bit, I mean, I'll just say it, probably what today we would say spectrum-y, right? Sure. I mean, most brilliant people are. And so from that sign, I come from a long line of very educated, very um kind of centric, eclectic people, little hippie. Yeah. Um, that kind of cool. And then my mom's straight Sicilian.

SPEAKER_04: 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:24

So it was big town, food, family, kind of keep your stuff close to the chest, but kind of meddle in business, like um just a great, great culture. And then we go to Payson, where material things do not matter.

SPEAKER_04: 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:40

Money does not matter. Um, you know, I get asked all the time, it was really funny. I was there with one of the uncles not too long ago. So my my best friend from when I was up there, um, her family just took me in because it was just my mom and my dad, my sister and I that moved up there.

SPEAKER_04: 5:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 5:56

And so, I mean, I was at always one of the uncle's house, grandparents, or whatever. And uh, it was after I sold uh my my big first business. And I went up there and I was just having kind of a bad breakdown. And I was just kind of like, you know, I kind of don't know what to do with myself now. And he said, Oh, T, you're so successful. And I said, you know, uncle, you have three boys that live near you. They want to spend every day with you. They want the grandkids around you. You're constantly with family. You're just your house, I don't even have to call you. I can come by. I said, that's successful to me.

SPEAKER_05: 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:30

That's a level of success I haven't achieved.

SPEAKER_05: 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:33

And so I think for me, Payson really brings in that camaraderie, that small town vibe that I think was very influential in the back of my mind when I was doing things and building businesses to see things a different way. Whereas my dad, very kind, very wonderful man, he was just business and science and facts, and this is how you do it.

SPEAKER_05: 6:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:56

He was a visionary. Um, but because he didn't have a lot of experience, I would say, with a lot of different kinds of people, he also got taken advantage of a lot.

SPEAKER_05: 7:04

Totally.

SPEAKER_02: 7:05

And that was my mom, my mom was keen. Yeah. She was sharp, right? Like she was raised to look around for that stuff. So it was kind of a yin and yang. But when I look back on, and he he passed, both my parents passed away very young. And when I look back on their trajectory and how much more they could have done, it just, it really saddens me because there was so much more for them to give. Um, but I think my dad was light years ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 7:29

I think he was a little too forward. I think he was, I think he was ahead of his time.

SPEAKER_01: 7:33

Do you think like that small time vibe is like it's hospitality, right? I I actually bought a building in uh small town, Missouri. Oh, yeah. And uh, and like it's funny, like the whole village comes out and like you meet everybody, right? You meet everybody. I remember this one guy coming up to my dad and I were out there working on the building, and he's like, I don't care if you want to be friends with me, I'm your new best friend. You know, it's like, and that was kind of the way it was. And you know, so like people don't realize, and like help me make this connection. It's like hospitality or experience in business is so important.

SPEAKER_02: 8:06

It's tremendous. Now, I I always have to, I have to say, you do have to have your, you know, you have to have a lookout. Yeah, but what I loved about Payson, so when we moved up there, my dad was, I think, one of like three small town docks. And I'm not kidding you, he carried his little black bag, the doorbell would ring. We didn't know if somebody was having a baby, cut their thumb off. Um, he saw everybody, and a lot of it was on barter. So I remember getting horseback riding lessons, um, Indian fry bread from the tribe, uh, eggs, uh, the gas station. We didn't even pay. We had a tab, uh, the small cafes. He took care of everybody as long as every as they wanted help. Yeah. If they were a drug addict or an alcoholic that was not willing to seek help, that's where he drew the line, but everybody else got seen. And so it was really cool because he just had this mentality of taking care of everybody and they did for you.

SPEAKER_04: 8:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:00

Um now in a small town, you know, you do something boom bastic, you're done for.

SPEAKER_04: 9:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 9:05

Um, but uh yeah, it's just a really great vibe where everybody kind of looks out for each other. You you don't worry about your kids. Yeah, you don't worry about your animals. Your dogs could be, you know, across town. They're gonna get back to you. Everybody knows they're your dogs. Um, and so it's a very different thing. And when you translate that to business, I think the mentality that I would like to break in business is that in order for me to win, you lose.

SPEAKER_04: 9:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:32

And that the like everybody wins, I think that's a small town vibe.

unknown: 9:37

True.

SPEAKER_02: 9:37

I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

But are you talking about your competitors too?

SPEAKER_02: 9:40

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:41

We differ there. Okay. I agree with you for the most part, but we'll differ on the competitors.

SPEAKER_02: 9:45

I don't need to, I don't need for you to fail.

SPEAKER_01: 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:48

I'm gonna do so well that I'm gonna supposed to do exactly what I'm supposed to do. I don't need you to fail for me to do well. Yeah, it's it's interesting. When you have those kind of things go on and people just really come after you, and I've certainly had it, yeah, it it's really easy to get there. And I remember I had one betrayal that broke my heart, probably worse than any heartbreak I ever even had in in my love life. And I was talking to somebody um about it one night, and he he quoted um uh stay golden, pony boy.

SPEAKER_05: 10:21

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 10:22

Yeah, like just because this had like don't change who you are. Yeah, just know that those kind of people are out there.

SPEAKER_01: 10:28

Yeah. And I would say to that, because I don't want to like confuse my underdogs and like have them be ruthless, you know, it's like, and I've never done anything nefarious towards my competitors, you know. I just it gives me motivation to think about outworking them, you know, and like I want the best for my people. Yeah, I know what I do with my resources, and so it's important that I have the most successful business. And you're right, to the point of different differentiation, I don't even want to compete anymore. I want to be so far beyond competing at that point that like we're we're talking almost a different industry, you know. But I want to win.

SPEAKER_02: 11:00

And when we're talking to young business owners, this is something I think we've all, as you grow your businesses, and even if you're hiring employees or whatnot, you know the difference. The ones who want the money, the ones who want the title, the ones who want the accolades, the ones who want to be in the room, and you kind of play towards that, right? You play to the strengths and what matters. But where we go even further is what kind of person are you? So here's the thing there's this like playbook, right? You should do this. Yeah, you should be this, you should have that done. This is where people fail, right? We are not all made the same.

SPEAKER_04: 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:39

So I've recently gotten into, and I think I shared with you last time I saw you, I've been studying gene keys and human design. Okay, which is fascinating. And I'm just like scratching uh the tip of the iceberg there. But what I'm learning is not only do we all have these different processes and it's a mix of quantum physics, DNA, um, astrology, and Enneagram. So it's a really comprehensive kind of study, if you will. And what I'm learning is there's people that are just made certain ways. So if you're forcing yourself to do something that's just not in you, yeah, stop forcing it and go with what you're meant to do. And just harness those strengths and then surround yourself with the people that do those other things.

SPEAKER_01: 12:29

So, how do you decide what your thing is you're supposed to do?

SPEAKER_02: 12:32

So for me, one of my, which I learned recently, like my one of my lit up chakras is the physical.

SPEAKER_04: 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:39

Um, so the spleenic shock chakra. Okay. So I actually have a physical response to what feels good and what's not. And I ignored it for a very, very long time.

SPEAKER_01: 12:48

So let's go back to Payson.

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 12:50

So you grew up in Payson, small town vibe. You know, let's say that like some of that small town, seeing dad work hard, hospitality, that sort of stuff influenced you later on. What was the first job out of, or did you go to college after that, or what did you do there?

SPEAKER_02: 13:04

Yeah. So I graduated Payson High School at 17 and came back down to go to ASU because that's what I was supposed to do, right?

SPEAKER_04: 13:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 13:12

We're all college educated and blah, blah, blah. Didn't make it very there very long. I came down my first, well, when I was in Payson, I worked at a Chinese restaurant.

SPEAKER_05: 13:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

And then when I came down here, I started a telemarketer company.

SPEAKER_01: 13:25

My working there or you started it?

SPEAKER_02: 13:28

Oh, working there. Like as a 17, 18-year-old kid. My dad was furious. He was like, What are you doing? School is supposed to be your job.

SPEAKER_01: 13:36

And I was like, That's a good skill.

SPEAKER_02: 13:37

Yeah. And I was like, Well, I don't know. I kind of wanted something to do and I wanted my own spending money and blah, blah, blah. And then I had met a chiropractor through my aunt. And I drove up to her office one day and I said, Hey, do you remember me? I need a job. And she said, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not hiring right now. And I said, Oh, that's okay, but I need a job. And she goes, Okay, how about four hours, uh, three days a week? And I was like, Yes. And that was a really pivotal point because it was funny. So she was a very busy chiropractor.

SPEAKER_04: 14:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 14:07

And she had like three rooms, one, two, three, two, one, two, three. And so I was the person that checked everybody in, and she would see 60, 70 patients a day. And I literally did nothing but social director. Like, that's what they ended up calling me. I just kept people happy while they were waiting, made sure she kind of stayed on track, made sure she stayed on time. And I learned a bunch from her. She was a remarkable, remarkable woman, another woman that left us too soon, 62 years old. But um at that time, I got hired at Houston's as well. So I was working at Houston's, the old one in Scottsdale and doing that. My father fell ill.

SPEAKER_01: 14:42

Houston's is a restaurant.

SPEAKER_02: 14:44

Oh, it's a great well, it used to be the place. It's still fantastic. Yeah. Yes. It was really great to get a job there. So I was still going to ASU, working at Houston's, working at the chiropractor, and my dad fell ill with multiple myeloma. And at that time it was a death sentence.

SPEAKER_04: 15:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 15:00

So I pretty much dropped out of school. My parents had moved back down here in Scottsdale area from Payson at that point. And I moved in with him and I was able to care for him for two and a half years until he passed away. During that time, I got married.

SPEAKER_04: 15:15

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 15:15

I had a baby, got divorced shortly after he passed, and then my mother passed away a year later. Oh wow. So it was a very short time. So here I am now, like 26, 27 years old, bartending at Houston's, which was a great job. Yeah. Single mom, both parents gone, going college dropout. Man, what happens next? I know there's something, but what happens next? And all the cards, you know, on paper were kind of stacked against me. But I just knew there was something better. And so thank goodness when we pay attention to the universe, there's these wonderful leaps of faith that happen.

SPEAKER_04: 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 15:53

And so because I was at Houston so long in the last several years, I was Monday through Friday, bar lunch shift, best shift ever, 10 to 4, all my business regulars. So I used to get job offers a lot, but they were scary. I was making great money at Houston's. Yeah. I had all the freedom in the world.

SPEAKER_04: 16:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 16:11

And you know, once you go into entrepreneurship for yourself, you understand this more than ever. Like to clock in and clock out. Yeah. I mean, what a gift that is, right?

SPEAKER_01: 16:21

Like I was so deceived by that. That all the propaganda got me on that one. You know, it's like I was full-time biochemistry student and full-time bartender. Yeah. And um, so I thought that like, and I begrudgingly had to start my first business. A lot of folks on the show know this, you know, but like, I like, I was like, oh, if I have my own business, I'll work my own hours. You know, it's like, but what you don't realize is exactly what you're saying. You never clock out. There is something always to do. Clocking out is like a gift.

SPEAKER_02: 16:51

It is. I mean, when you're bartending, you don't worry about where the customers come from. You don't worry about the marketing, you don't worry about the rent. You don't worry about, you know, all of the different things. I mean, yeah, it has its stressful moments, but all of that.

SPEAKER_01: 17:04

So Tell me about the value that like, so I was bartender too, obviously. Yeah. Or people in the service industry. Tell me about what that meant to you as far as like value in life and in business.

SPEAKER_02: 17:15

I think everybody should work in the service industry. 1,000%. I think in fact, I don't think I ever hired somebody who was certainly in any sort of sales or marketing position. Yeah. But even beyond that, I wanted everybody to have experience in the service industry.

SPEAKER_01: 17:31

1000%.

SPEAKER_02: 17:32

It is invaluable experience. And it just also shows how much you can get away with when you're pleasant. So that was one of the things. I am five foot tall on a good day. Houston's on a Friday night is packed, and you are four deep. And I wasn't the world's best bartender, but boy, every manager that came through there from across the nation said, You have one of the highest tip averages ever. You know why? Because when I was at four deep, I would look up and I would say, I see you. I'll be they will wait 10 minutes. Just acknowledge somebody. There's nothing more frustrated than when somebody's busy when they just keep their head down. Like it's just take a moment and say, I see you. I'm just gonna finish this. I'll be with you as soon as I can. People will wait.

SPEAKER_01: 18:18

You know, I was uh my truck doesn't really fit in very many places. So I had a valet the other day. Uh and uh so the ballet comes, and I was actually a ballet in college too. Okay. Ballet comes up to me and he guys kind of like opens the door and he's like basically like what?

SPEAKER_02: 18:31

Like, yeah, what am I supposed to do with this?

SPEAKER_01: 18:33

Yeah, like and like it's really hard to pay people that like aren't providing good customer service. I know. You're like, I really wish I didn't have to pay you. You know, it's like and you almost as an entrepreneur, you wish you could like fire them. Well, yeah, or teach that too.

SPEAKER_02: 18:49

Teach them, fire them something. Yeah, common courtesy, just respect and politeness, no matter what kind of a person you are, it just goes so far.

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

It's it's such a good lesson, and I think the service industry teaches that in spades, you know. It's like, and you're gonna have to deal with all types of people, rude people, nice people, you know. It's like I and like it's funny, there's such themes in these shows as I've done these interviews, is like you mentioned a couple jobs already, you mentioned service industry already. Are you taking notes, folks? That that usually guess what usually comes next, not far along. Yeah, business.

SPEAKER_02: 19:23

Yeah, it does. It does because truthfully, the way I saw it, and now that I look back, I can identify that. When I was there, I was running my own business. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? So my dad once told me, quoting my I'll probably bring up dad a hundred times. Please, he he always said, Tiana, there is an employee mentality and an employer mentality. Yep. And you can't teach the difference. You either got it or you don't. Yep. And so somebody who truly has that mentality of employer mentality, they are not going to look for this happened to me, it broke, somebody else fix it. They just automatically take initiative. Whether they are a server, whether they they are a housekeeper, whether they are a manager, it doesn't matter. Like that mentality of it's not somebody else's problem. I have the tools, I'll fix it. Guys, if you have that, you got it.

SPEAKER_01: 20:15

You know, it baffles the hell out of me how people are like, I'm gonna be this mediocre to awful employee, right? But someday I'm gonna own my own business. It's like yeah, I'll tell you, number one, you're not gonna change into a better worker in your own business. No, you're not. And number two, if you're a mediocre to an awful employee in somebody else's business, why can you expect that you're gonna have good employees in yours? Like it's so silly to me that people think, oh, I'm just gonna own my business someday, so I don't I can half ask this job. No, how you do something is how you do everything.

SPEAKER_02: 20:42

That doesn't, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Plus, it's bad karma-wise. Yeah, like you didn't work for somebody else. What do you think your employees are gonna do for you? Absolutely. I mean, they and they see that.

SPEAKER_05: 20:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 20:52

You know, they can see that, they can read that. And that's it's so funny because um, you know, when I went out and started my business, um after I started my business, I can probably name on there's probably 10 to 12 people that worked for me that started their own hospice company. And people are like, Are you mad? And I'm like, no. Like, that's freaking amazing.

SPEAKER_04: 21:15

Good for you.

SPEAKER_02: 21:15

Like, that's I worked at another hospice company before I started my own. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I get it. So, you know, can they all make it or not? That's a different story.

SPEAKER_01: 21:26

But you know, I like on that note, it's like I anybody that's ever worked for me, yeah, you know, that wants to do something in the realm of the field that I'm in and I feel like they're prepared for it, I would totally invest in them. I would help them do it. But the problem, the key note is like they have to be ready for it. If if they're the people, and this is usually what's happened to me, is like it's the person that never wants to show up to work on time, it wants to be hung over, you know, wants, and then they like, oh, I can do this, and then they are your competitor, you know. It's like, and they never once approach you about like, hey, maybe you should like what about a franchise? What about you know this? No, they want to go do their own thing. And honestly, in the long run, folks, it doesn't even affect you, you know, because the same way they worked for you is the same way they work down the street.

SPEAKER_02: 22:07

Absolutely. Absolutely. They've got to build that work ethic in themselves. You know, just having a title or having a, you know, you're starting an LLC doesn't make you automatically there.

SPEAKER_01: 22:18

We always make it look easy, and that's the thing I've found over the years. It's like if you're a person of value in the company, you're most entrepreneurial, like like right-minded bosses will help you make that leap to your own business. I understand. They have every reason to do it. In fact, I'd own every single company I ever touched still if I could have just put somebody in charge of it and never had to worry about it again. Right. If I I would own them all, why not? You know, why not? That's the hardest thing. And so if somebody of value wants to open a business in a similar industry, and especially if you can partner invest in them and that sort of stuff, and they're ready, you know, it's like, why would we not do that as entrepreneurs? It's smart.

SPEAKER_02: 22:54

It is, it is, but therein also comes the will.

SPEAKER_01: 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 22:58

You know, there there comes the will. So you can have the book smarts, you can have the knowledge, you can have that, but where does your will come in? And I'm purposely using the word will instead of hustle.

SPEAKER_01: 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:10

Because I see a lot of people who are really busy and they don't get anything done.

SPEAKER_01: 23:14

Totally.

SPEAKER_02: 23:15

So for me, you know, in my mind, if I can do in four hours what it takes somebody else to do two days in two days, well, okay. Why should so it's the same thing went with with my employees? Like if you get done what you need to get done, why would I punish you for working better and harder and smarter and more efficiently?

SPEAKER_05: 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:35

Um, you know, people stretch it out. I think that's one of the things I have an issue with now that I I'm doing more consulting and things like that with these consultants that I see out there. Yeah. See, this is my disruptor coming in.

SPEAKER_05: 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:47

You know, it's all about, well, I'm gonna give you this many hours.

SPEAKER_05: 23:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:50

And they want to stretch that out, right? So you're gonna take this founder, this entrepreneur's time away from their business so that you can justify your rate and spread this out over hours and hours. No, my job as a consultant, because you're not paying me for my time. You're paying me for the years and years and years it took me to learn this, and you're paying me for the fact that I can condense it and just spit it back to you. So you don't pay me for hours. I don't bill for hours. That's it's crazy to me. It's about results. Yep. Where do you get? So you can have all these wonderful consultants, and this is why consultants do get a bad name out there and whatnot is you know, you hire somebody for a year and they go in there and they tell you all this stuff to do or whatnot, and spend all these times and make meetings and data and reports and whatnot, but there's no what do you do with it?

SPEAKER_01: 24:44

You know, that's so when I first started helping people with business, yeah. Um, it they were just like me. The main problem was they just didn't know, right? It's like they were naive to accounting and marketing and that sort of stuff. Uh, very similar to me. And now when I help people with business, it's the number one issue in their business these days is the bad consultant.

SPEAKER_02: 25:03

Oh, a million percent.

SPEAKER_01: 25:05

That is the thing I see over and over destroying businesses the bad marketer, the bad accountant, the bad CPA, the bad operation, the bad put your life in order together person that's just bleeding them a dry. I see it over and over again now. So I think it's become harder than ever because they're kind of doing the right thing. They're like, okay, I need to get some help on this, you know. Now, my mindset is completely different than most in this world about this. I think you need to know something about everything. When I took my MBA, they don't teach me how to be the best finance guy in the world. They don't teach me how to be the best marketer in the world. What they do teach you is a little bit about a lot of it, right? That you can then manage it. And I think it's important to manage it. And there, there's actually a great guy in podcast number two, I think it was. He opened a lawn mowing company with one lawnmower at 16 years old, built it up to a$10 million company, sold the$10 million company. He started a kind of an Uber for lawn mowing business that's now worth$30 million. And he did what everybody else does. Okay, I'm not a tech guy, I'm not a coder, I'm not these sort of things. So I'm just gonna hire that out. I got$10 million. So he did, he got ripped off, he got no product. So finally went back and he taught himself some of the stuff at least enough to manage it, right? And that's what I say to all you underdogs bootstrappers out there: learn enough to manage it. You don't just get to go hands off.

SPEAKER_02: 26:20

So that's exactly where I'm gonna piggyback on you. Yeah. Because I agree with what you're saying, however, I have a little bit of a different spin.

SPEAKER_01: 26:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 26:27

So going back to everybody's made different, yeah. Focus on the things that you are really, really good at. I don't disagree that that you you just have to do. And for most business owners, it's being the face of your business.

SPEAKER_05: 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 26:40

Not all business owners, but for most, it just is. You got to be the pivotal face. But focus on what you do and then build your team to do the things that you're not good at, you don't like or you don't know, but you have to know enough about those things to be able to fact-check it and to make sure it's getting driven.

SPEAKER_01: 26:58

I would a thousand percent agree with that. And the only time you get to opt out of that is like you've got like a Steve Jobs Wozniak scenario, right? You got a Disney Brothers scenario, right? Where they're very trusted confidence. That's why a partner can be good or bad, right? Partners more often destroy companies because they don't get along. But look at the Disney Brothers, for instance. It's like Roy, ultimate finance guy, right? He was really the one that made the company actually happen. Walt was the visionary and the creative guy. You needed both parts of that company.

SPEAKER_02: 27:27

Yeah, and you stay in your lanes. Yes. And but but they had the ultimate trust there too. They did, the brother. Which is different. Um, so I, in my hospice company that I started, um, which I know we'll go back to that, I had the two very best business partners that a person could ever ask for. That's awesome. I mean, seriously, when I look at the destruction of most companies, it starts at the partner level. It really, really does.

SPEAKER_01: 27:51

It almost always is.

SPEAKER_02: 27:52

Almost always.

SPEAKER_01: 27:53

So it's the people that are the hardest part of business, and people don't realize that.

SPEAKER_02: 27:56

They don't, yeah, because you you've you've got not only your business management, your client management, your employee management, your partner management, all of those different factors, right? And you have to be authentic and chan transparent and good, but you also have to be a chameleon to learn how to translate that in all those different areas.

SPEAKER_03: 28:13

Totally.

SPEAKER_02: 28:13

Um, or just be authentic by saying, I don't do this well. Yeah. But here's what I want to accomplish. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 28:22

Did you guys have like an insane operating agreement? Was it like hugely laid out? Like what helped put you in that guide rails where you can say good things about your business partners instead of this being a disaster story about like we separated because we couldn't work together.

SPEAKER_02: 28:36

Okay. So when I found my business partners, I had been in hospice for almost a decade.

SPEAKER_01: 28:42

Because you're working in it now, right? Yep. After Houston's, I'm assuming you took a job in it or something.

SPEAKER_02: 28:46

Yeah. Do you want me to tell that story real quick?

SPEAKER_01: 28:49

I want you to just tell me how you got to the hospice. Yeah. How did you get to like working in Houston's to hospice?

SPEAKER_02: 28:57

Okay, I'll simplify this. So um, so here I was in the bartending business, knowing I had to make a leap at some point, but it was gonna be a pay cut because I mean I was 10 to 4 Monday through Friday. So I used to get a lot of offers from my regulars, and I got an offer to sell phone systems, and it was VoIP at the time. And we're talking a long time ago. So it was not really ready. Long story short, after 10 months, they'd hired 14 of us. It was a beta test that I was unaware it was a beta test here. Everybody but me had been let go, um, fired, or reduced. And I was working out of my condo, reporting to some dude in Boston, going out selling phone systems. I was like, this isn't for me. Um, so I walked into a hospice company on a cold call one day and I sold him a phone system. And the director of operations says, Hey, T, you look like you know a lot of people. Um, I'm looking for someone. I said, Yeah, sure. Tell me all about it, Peter. And so he started describing this job, and I started thinking of my farm rep friends or other people. And I got in my car and I call it God's Gentle Two by Four, and my daddy going, Dummy, this is for you. This is for you. And I went home, faxed in the contract, called him up and said, Hey, I found somebody for the job. I don't have the education or the experience that that you are requiring. And they said, We don't care, we'll train you. And so I went in and I worked very closely with husband and wife owners. Um, and within a, I mean, I started ground, ground, ground level. And within a year, I was in the room and they just taught me so much.

SPEAKER_04: 30:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 30:24

So I knew that I wanted to start my business, but I knew I wasn't ready. I felt the winds of change there and they sold. And the new owners tried to lock me in with all of these things, but I knew it wasn't the way to go. And so I went to another hospice company that had been recruiting me for a very long time.

SPEAKER_05: 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 30:39

And they were, they were hungry. And I was like, look, my other company just got back. This is what I want. And I want you to hire these two nurses, and I want you to hire this biller and whatever. And they were like, what marketer cares about a biller? And I was like, just this is what I want. And they did it. And I was happy there. I mean, I I was flying, I was um, I hate to say it, but I was kind of the golden child, right? When you're when you're the marketer, when you're the person bringing the business in, particularly after a business had been stagnant for a while, you get what you want and you get that attitude too, which I'm not that proud of, but it you have to go through that stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 31:14

Only green gummy bears in my green room. Lord, I mean, you know, I don't care if your nurse is busy.

SPEAKER_02: 31:21

I don't care if this, you know, this is plugged by. But um I felt the winds of change again. And they said, Oh my gosh, they're gonna sell. And so privately I was like, this is my time, God. I need to go out. And so I had reached out to a doctor friend of mine and I said, Look, this is my idea. I want to start this hospice. Um, I know it's gonna take, you know, this amount of money. I'm thinking of going to five different doctors and getting them to invest, and then, you know, we'll all be partners. He goes, That's a terrible idea. Doctors are nightmares. You know, you don't want that. Just don't talk to anybody else. I'm gonna talk to my brother and we're gonna call you back. And I was like, Okay. And so he calls me that night and he goes, Me and my brother will do it. And now his brother is an attorney. So I had this cardiologist and an attorney, and he goes, We'll do it. And and don't talk to anybody else. And I said, Look, I don't even know I want to partner with you, much less you and your brother. Like, I'm gonna get overrun with everything. And he goes, No, no, no, no. My brother and I don't agree on anything. Just meet us at Fatso's Pizza. And we met at Fatso's Pizza. That's it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:19

Magic always happens at Fatso's Pizza.

SPEAKER_02: 32:21

Seriously, right? Like just cheap, greasy pizza, pitcher of beer. It was freaking magic because I learned first off, they are good, good ethical men. Second, they really didn't agree on a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01: 32:33

Uh-huh. Um, and was there anything you saw in that first meeting? Anything like the the way they treated the waiter, or you know, like was there anything that like made you like a spark that, like, hey, this could work? What they ordered, just their mannerisms.

SPEAKER_02: 32:48

Their mannerisms. They're both um eclectic.

SPEAKER_04: 32:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 32:53

I'm attracted to eclectic. I I gotta say, it's from my father. My brothers are super eclectic. Yeah, the men in my family. I I just saw that genuine where it was just enough weird to be endearing and authentic. Got it. I I saw authenticity, is what I saw. Okay. Now that I have to, but but in a very eclectic manner. And I was like, these two are gonna keep me on my toes. Yeah. But boy, I I just I just knew like that they were the kind of people that they did what they said and they said what they meant.

SPEAKER_05: 33:21

Good.

SPEAKER_02: 33:22

And then I went, why are these two super educated, super amazing, accomplished, wealthy men giving me a crap load of money. Yeah. Right. So then I went into that hole about like, wow, here we're gonna do it. So for six months we worked behind the scenes. Um, every Wednesday night we would meet at eight o'clock at my partner, the cardiologist's house, and we would be there till 2 a.m.

SPEAKER_04: 33:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 33:48

And it was that was our we all had full-time jobs. That was just our night, and it was the kitchen island nights.

SPEAKER_01: 33:53

And it's crazy that they'd want to put in at that point too, because they're already having success in their own right, right?

SPEAKER_02: 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:59

To have to put to that's actually in pretty impressive that people would put in at that point.

SPEAKER_02: 34:04

Well, you know, I I will tell you something that happened at that dinner because uh Jerry asked me.

SPEAKER_01: 34:09

I knew there was something.

SPEAKER_02: 34:10

Yeah, there is something. Jerry said, Well, why do you want to do this?

SPEAKER_05: 34:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:14

And I said, You're right. I'm actually making good money. I don't have to worry about the other things. And I said, You know what? I am so tired of sitting in front of people and making them promises and then wondering if it's gonna happen. I am so tired of being criticized for buying a homeless man a steak out of my own pocket because I should have been out getting other patients. Like that, it just doesn't work. And he goes, That's it, we're done, we're doing it. We're doing it. And I was like, Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 34:44

I love that.

SPEAKER_02: 34:45

They are good men, and so for all this time behind the scenes, here we are, we're working, and then it's like launch day, and it is on me. And also, they both agreed to be relatively silent. So the attorney was gonna handle all the finances, and he did a ton of our legal stuff, which saved us a bunch of money.

SPEAKER_05: 35:04

Totally.

SPEAKER_02: 35:04

Bunch. And then our cardiologist, Mike, he was just more kind of like obviously clinical, um, but he was he was more just um just kind of the heart, I guess. He was a very heart guy.

SPEAKER_01: 35:18

Did you feel like you had people that had your back in that scenario? Did it feel like you against the world, or did it feel like no, you have people that will will will will stand by you?

SPEAKER_02: 35:29

I think losing your parents, my parents so young, I developed a me against the world mentality. It doesn't mean I can't connect with people, it doesn't mean I don't um I don't have those great relationships, but this sense of ultimate reliability, no, that was shattered.

SPEAKER_01: 35:49

So you still felt alone even though you had two partners that were savvy and pulling some weight.

SPEAKER_02: 35:54

Well, and I I felt responsible. Yeah. That was a big chunk of cash, right? It's like when somebody hands you your newborn baby from the hospital and you go, wait a minute, wait a minute, what do you mean you're discharging me? Yep. I have this baby.

SPEAKER_04: 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 36:06

And we all, you know, you're gonna you're gonna figure it out, but it's scary.

SPEAKER_05: 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 36:10

So I had written a back of the napkin performa. And when I say back of the napkin, it literally was. I mean, I had never, I don't even use computers. Like, I don't know, I didn't, I never looked a financial. Yeah, but what I figured is at 20 patients, we break even. So I knew we had to this time to get to 20 patients.

SPEAKER_01: 36:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 36:28

And that was it.

SPEAKER_01: 36:29

How long did it take you?

SPEAKER_02: 36:31

Less than two months.

SPEAKER_01: 36:32

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 36:33

Less than two months. And that's not easy in the hospice world, right? Because you have attrition. People are passing away.

SPEAKER_01: 36:39

You give a general definition of what hospice world is or la hos hospice business for those that don't understand it.

SPEAKER_02: 36:46

Sure. So hospice is for a patient or a person that is determined to have a six-month or less life expectancy if there is no intervention. And so having said that, you can have patients that are with you for two days, you could have patients that are with you for two years.

SPEAKER_05: 37:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 37:06

But there is certain criteria that they have to meet, and it's diagnosis specific. So if you have somebody with cancer, it has to be a certain type of cancer. It has to have developed so far, and they are no longer seeking aggressive treatment like chemotherapy or radiation.

SPEAKER_01: 37:22

It's safe to say then, and I've I I don't mean this in a bad way at all, but like I want it to be impactful. It's like your product is people about to die.

SPEAKER_02: 37:30

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 37:31

And I think like that's one of the things I really want. Like I think is so incredible, is because I spend a lot of time these days. Like, what is happiness? What is fulfillment? You know, and in fact, like I look back on my own life, and I don't think very many people should copy me. I don't think anybody should copy me. You know, it's like I've lived my life for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04: 37:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 37:50

Always, right? Get another degree, start another business. You know, it's like I don't have a family, you know. It's like, and I wonder if I'm doing it right. And you know, you and I have had some conversations around that, and that's what I want to expose my underdogs to. It's like, yes, we need money. Money is a tool. You don't want to be without it. You know, I've had those instances of being homeless and not being able to afford a meal and giving blood for food and things like that. You don't want to be there either. But starting a business where your product is people about to die teaches you something, I'm certain.

SPEAKER_02: 38:18

It certainly does. And again, when you think about things that are driven and universe driven, God-driven. Um, having that I'd lost both of my parents already and I was the primary caregiver, and I felt so helpless, and I didn't know how many resources were out there.

SPEAKER_04: 38:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 38:38

So that's where my spark from hospice came. It was like, this is gonna happen, whether we're there or not. We have to tell people what's out there. We have to help them through this process. There's help. So that became my heart space, my motivating factor. The money was a side effect. Incredible. A great side, a great side effect. Um, and I don't believe that there's any shame in making money in lightness.

SPEAKER_01: 39:00

No, and in lightness only. You have to. You can't help anybody if you can't help yourself.

SPEAKER_02: 39:05

Correct. But yeah, it was a total side effect. It was really about there's so many, and I can tell you, nobody wants to see the hospice lady, right? Yeah, nobody wants to get that phone call from me, have me show up at their door. But there was in all of my years, and even after I sold my company and I stayed on as the founder president over multiple, a national company, anytime I would go visit a site, I would say, Whose car am I going in? I wanted to go see patients. I wanted to go see sip bedside. I always stayed in front of patients from day one till my very last day. So there was never a time I met with a patient or a family where somewhere during that conversation, you see their face shift and they go, Where have you guys been? Like, where have you guys been? Because people know that their loved one is sick. Yeah, they may not know how sick, yeah, but they know. That something, I mean, we are we all are going to die. And to just not feel alone, to just feel like there's support there, um, it's an incredible thing. So for a very early age, I started in hospice when I was about 27. And again, single mom. And you know, I have my friends and I like to party too. I love, I still I love to go out, I love to do things, but like I would have a friend call me and just be all bent out of shape about like waiting in line at the bank or, you know, getting stuck in traffic. And I was like, I just told a 42-year-old's children that she's probably not gonna be here in a couple months. You know what I mean? And it just puts you in this perspective of you know, when they say don't sweat the small stuff, it's really don't sweat the small stuff. I mean, it just gives you this perspective of um there are so many things, and what does that matter today? What does it matter today?

SPEAKER_01: 41:00

Fuck yeah. It's it's so incredible. And like so now you're getting it, right? You know, the people that like watch this podcast because like one of my famous phrases is like, Don't do something you love in this world, do something you hate, and start a business that solves that thing you hate. And not only that, but I talk a lot about, you know, it's like how the worst things in my life have actually evolved to be the best things in my my life. Yes. And like I can't imagine much worse than losing your parents. Yeah. And then look at how like now if we could look backwards, you couldn't see it looking forwards, like I'm losing my parents, right? But then, like, if you like look at it backwards, it's like that became the company, right? And the things you hated are what you corrected in the business completely.

SPEAKER_02: 41:43

And to go even further, which I know a lot of people might not like that I say this, but I'm gonna say it. Um, I don't know that I would have been successful had that not happened.

SPEAKER_04: 41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:57

And I would give it all up. I would give it all up to have my parents. Don't get me wrong, but if my parents were here the way I was raised, um, I mean, not to the entire degree, but you're pretty, marry well, yeah, be a mom, those things. My dad knew I was smart. I wasn't as smart as my other as my siblings, but um, I was smart. But I was like the black sheep of the family. I was the social one. I was the one who didn't really study, didn't really care about school, didn't really. I think they knew I'd always land on my feet, but I'm sure that they worried and were just like, God, she just needs to get hooked up with good people and be okay because that's all she wants to do. Nobody I can say this with certainty. All my aunts and uncles that are still living, everything like that. Um, I think I shocked the shit out of everybody when I became as successful as I did. And then I think I went, I think they went, oh heck, that totally makes sense. But nobody would have forecasted that.

SPEAKER_01: 42:54

It it happens. I remember the we had a cousin come visit when we were like 15 years old. My father was in prison, you know. It's like, and uh, and she told everybody, she's like, they're all going. She's like, I just met those kids. Nobody had seen us in quite a while because we lived quite a few states away. And it's like, they're all going. You know, it's like, and now you look at like my brothers and I, you know, like who should be statistics, and none of us are. You know, it's like, and so those of you out there that like they're counting out right now, it's because you have something to give, right?

SPEAKER_02: 43:22

Oh, I see, I I mean, don't even get me into that victim mentality. Yeah, don't even get me into that victim, harness it, yeah, use it and do something to change it. It doesn't mean that you're not allowed to sit in your feelings and have a moment for yourself. Sure. But give yourself a moment. I call it a chicken soup. So sometimes, and as you get better and better at this, sometimes I have a chicken soup 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_05: 43:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 43:44

Where I allow myself to be pissed off and angry and whatever it is for 10 minutes. Sometimes I need a whole day. Sometimes I need a chicken soup day. Yeah, but I know that that's I call it that chicken soup day because that is not my norm. Yeah, that is not where I'm gonna live.

SPEAKER_01: 43:58

Get over it.

SPEAKER_02: 43:59

And you gotta get over it. And uh there are the statistics, okay? That's great, but we all have choices. And there are people like you, and there are people like me that will always give a hand up for somebody that reaches out and means it.

SPEAKER_04: 44:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 44:14

And means it. I will never turn down somebody who really just wants help. I mean, when I first retired a couple years ago, I spent two years mentoring people. I created a company CEO to go. I hadn't charged one person because none of them had money. They were all young entrepreneurs. I took every freaking meeting, unless they didn't, they didn't believe it, they didn't doubt themselves, or they had an ulterior motive. Like I didn't like that.

SPEAKER_01: 44:40

But even helping's a process, you know. Yeah. You know, like you taking these things happen to us in life, anyways, you know, disastrous to lose your parents. I'm very sorry about that. But it's like it happened to you, you know, and that's your thing it happened to. So now you can either use it as destruction, poor me, victim mindset, you know, these sort of things, or you can use it as fuel, right? To change something, to add value. So I it's beautiful that it became the segue it did. It did. It had it unfortunately, it had to happen, you know, and then like you've made it into gold as opposed to the opposite.

SPEAKER_04: 45:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:14

So I also want to get into I don't want to miss, like, there's a couple things that I don't want to miss. And it's like, I'm so fascinated by people on their deathbed, right? And like I think about that all the time. It's one of my main driving motivators in life, is I think about my deathbed all the time. And like what Tyler really wants to do right now, to be very honest, you know, Tyler's tired. You know, Tyler's been working a lot of hours for a lot of years. You know, it's like Tyler really wants to have a little farm and have a German Shepherd. That's what Tyler wants, and to disappear. But when I think about my deathbed, I would wholeheartedly regret it. So that's why I jump back in the muck. That's why I do this stuff. I face the fear through this microphone because I want to create some systems of value before I go. I want to impact some things that I think are bullshit before I go. And I think about my deathbed all the time to do that, right? It's like tell me some of the most fundamental things that you've heard of people on their deathbed that changed your life.

SPEAKER_02: 46:06

So the dying process in the deathbed to two different arenas. So I'll start at the actual deathbed when people are dying. I have been present, and I'm not a nurse, I'm not clinical. Yeah. But like I said, I always went bedside with patients. And for some reason, I also had this weird knack that if somebody was having trouble transitioning and they were hanging on and there was no reason why, people would call me and I'd go make a visit and they were able to pass.

SPEAKER_01: 46:30

Wow. Um people can control it, you think, to some extent.

SPEAKER_02: 46:34

I think that you, your soul and God make a little deal and you don't know what that you don't know here what that is, but you've made a deal. That's why you've heard of like villa uh a wife that is sat bedside by her husband's bed for literally two and a half days, and the moment she goes to shower, he passes away.

SPEAKER_05: 46:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 46:55

Like he didn't want her to see that. Or somebody who's hanging on.

SPEAKER_04: 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:00

For I mean, we've had this so many times. We're like, now people always say they're not eating. Listen, if you're sipping in sure, you're having little drinks, you're eating. I'm talking no eating, no water intake, nothing for a week, nine days, and you're like, what's going on? And the long-lost daughter shows up and they can go.

SPEAKER_05: 47:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:20

So one of the first things I would say is when I talk about deathbed, and one of the things if the family allowed me and wanted me to do, or if I had already had a relationship with that patient, I would always talk to them because I believe that you can hear on the deathbed. I would always tell them they're okay. You've made your peace, you did your job, you have great kids, you did this, like, and people will go.

SPEAKER_04: 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:48

Um, a lot of times they need their family to tell them that. It's okay to say I'm sad and I know I'm sitting here bawling my eyes out, you're in pain, just go, I'll be fine. So there's that perspective of actual deathbed. Then there's perspective of the dying phase.

SPEAKER_04: 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 48:06

So when you get that diagnosis and when you shift into my mortality, and we all know it's here, but my mortality is now right in front of my face where I can't ignore it. The conversations that start happening are very idealistic. So, first of all, it always comes back to relationships. Some people do talk about stuff or what they created. Um I would find that a little bit fictitious or a lead-in to the relationships. So it's really about those un regrets are the things that you haven't done, not the things that you did.

SPEAKER_04: 48:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 48:47

I mean, I really find that the biggest regrets have been that. So a lot of it have been relationships. And it's not always just necessarily with a spouse or children. It can be outside relationships, it can be business relationships, it can be about what fed your soul. So a lot of times when people would talk about their companies or whatnot, it wasn't about the money. It was about what they did, what the legacy of that is. And so, you, my friend, if that's what you're driven by and that's your legacy, then I invite you to whole hard wholeheartedly hold on to that. Now, having said that, I had a client not too long ago, young man, brilliant young man, 31 years old, was going through his first sale of a business. It wasn't a huge sale, but by golly, it was a sale.

SPEAKER_05: 49:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:37

Uh, not married, no children. And he said, I don't feel like I can work the way that I work and have a family. And so that was one of the reasons that's what he hired me for, is to start talking through how you can be an entrepreneur and make time for your family.

SPEAKER_05: 49:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:51

And so I had shared with him some personal things about what I did, what I would have done differently. And he said, T, I'm just gonna ask you point blank, if you would have made half the money, but you would have had a better relationship with your daughter and maybe some other family uh members, would you have taken it? And I had to pause and I said, You know what? Up until two years ago, I would have told you absolutely not. Today, I would tell you, yeah, I would have. So the coulda shoulda woulda game is a dangerous game.

SPEAKER_04: 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:24

It's a really dangerous game, but at the same time, that wearin is where you have your balance. So when you talk about, and we're we're talking to the underdogs, we're talking to the young entrepreneurs, I would say find in your spirit what it is that's driving you to go this route. Totally. Is it because somebody told you you should be? Is it because you think that's what she you should be? Is it because you have this innate drive? Is it financial? Is it your ego? What is it? And then hone in on that and then see if it actually fits for you. Because if you're putting a square peg in a round hole, it ain't gonna fit and it's not gonna last long and you're gonna burn out. So really find your fire, find where that comes from. It's okay to want to be financially well off. Sure. But if that is your only goal, my friend, my personal opinion on it is that's bullshit and it can fail. Easy come, easy go money.

SPEAKER_01: 51:17

Thousand percent.

SPEAKER_02: 51:17

You gotta have mission, drive, and purpose behind whatever you do.

SPEAKER_01: 51:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 51:21

Big money is a side effect. That's why all this get rich quick crap doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01: 51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 51:26

It really doesn't.

SPEAKER_01: 51:26

Everybody thinks there's a hack to it. And you know, that's why like more of the stuff that like I have people on, we have real conversations, you know, and like, and we don't talk about like how did you make a million dollars last week, right? Because that's fucking impossible, honestly, unless you have some sort of like somebody that gave you a bunch of money or you know, something that most people don't have, right? You know, it's like this is real. Real is you get your fucking ass kicked, and then eventually it pays off if you can stand the storm long enough. You know, that's what it actually is. Yep, that's the real talk.

SPEAKER_02: 51:55

You have the haters coming at you, yep, even within your own circle.

SPEAKER_01: 51:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 51:59

Um, especially with those are the most dangerous ones. And the most dangerous ones are the ones who try to pose as not the haters, but the realists or the whatever, I'm just concerned for you. I'm just concerned.

SPEAKER_01: 52:10

Nobody believes in you until you do it, and then everybody says that you could do it.

SPEAKER_02: 52:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 52:14

You know, not one person will believe in you until you do it, and then they'll all say, I knew you could do it. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 52:19

And you know what? But here's the beauty of that, and what I've learned very recently, that's them, not you. Yeah. So go into it with that perspective.

SPEAKER_01: 52:28

And you're damn right about mission-purpose alignment. And that's why, like, I phrase it in a way like, do what you hate, you know, it's like and start that business. Don't start the top YouTube 2025. You know, I made a video about that quite a few times. You think if I were to go out there and tell you right now via video, social media, and say, here's the top 10 visits you should start today, viral video. I already know that. I know enough about social. So I will tell you here's you should never start the top one uh one of the 2020 top 25 for YouTube videos because there's no mission-purpose alignment, and you will fucking fail at it.

SPEAKER_02: 53:02

That's exactly right. When I started the hospice company, we hired this amazing, brilliant um consultant out of Louisiana. Yeah, he was a good consultant. He was the kind of consultant I like, I am. I mean, he did not mince words. He we called him with a question, he gave us the answer, and then every he would send us a bill once in a while. I was like, yes. It wasn't about like, I need to ongoing teach you. But when I first called him, he goes, and he had this draw, and I can't do it justice, so I'm not even gonna try to do it. Like, Tiana, why are you starting this hospice company in Arizona? It's the most saturated market in the entire nation. And I was like, Well, I live here, man. I live here. This is where I'm gonna do it. And he's like, Well, alrighty then. Um, and oh yeah, everybody thought I was nuts for starting it here, you know, everybody. And then here you go again until you make it work. And I always say, this town, Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona, did not need another hospice company. It needed a hospice company like us.

SPEAKER_04: 54:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 54:01

That was the difference. That was the absolute difference. And so um, yeah, you gotta start with your purpose and your mission. And if you do what's right, the money will come.

SPEAKER_01: 54:10

One thing that I've seen you talk about that I think is really interesting and valuable is like about like dating in this day and age. And you know, it's like, and so give me your like your advice, you know, especially from the entrepreneur lens. You know, it's like, like I give people the like, hey, your your partner in life, your spouse is your most important choice. That is the person that's gonna bring you up or bring you down in life. I totally believe in that. And so, like for me, until I find that person, I'm alone, right? Like, that's the way I can't have somebody holding me back. My lofty aspirations are too high. You know, it's like I need somebody that supports me in that. So, as an entrepreneur, like, and with like you've seen, you know, people that have been together 50 years, you know, that are saying goodbye to their loved ones. It's like, give me a little, and now you run a dating company, you know, give me a little insight. Entrepreneur, choosing your life partner, you know, like weigh in on that for me.

SPEAKER_02: 55:03

Entrepreneur, choosing your life partner. So, first of all, figure out what season of life that you're in, and understand that you're not always going to be in that season.

SPEAKER_05: 55:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:11

So when you pick a partner, okay, and you both start here, yeah, and it's fun and fun. If one of you grows and the other one doesn't, you're gonna outgrow them.

SPEAKER_01: 55:21

That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02: 55:22

So it is entirely um instrumental that you have conversations around what might be. So I was here with Justin, his beautiful bride, and they're young.

SPEAKER_04: 55:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:35

Um, so what they're doing today is gonna look very different in the 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. Yep. They've got to stay committed to that. People like you and I are a little crazy. I'm not easy to be with um because it I I I moved the ball. Yeah. Okay, I moved the ball.

SPEAKER_04: 55:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:50

So when I met my current boyfriend, I was retired. And then I was like, my cousin came up with this brilliant matchmaking business, and I was like, yo, I'm gonna go help her start that. And I went and I was gone.

SPEAKER_05: 55:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 56:00

So what I had to do different in this relationship is I actually took him aside and I said, I know you don't know this side of me yet, but this is what the next six months are gonna look like. Yeah. Okay. And it's just six months, and then I'm gonna reevaluate. And what are the things that I can do for you in the next six months to show you that you're valuable to me with the limited time that I have? And here's the things that if you do to me, I will turn off. Yeah. And so it was a very courageous conversation around that. So for an entrepreneur who's going into whether you're in a new relationship looking for a relationship or an existing one, your partner is not your employee, man.

SPEAKER_05: 56:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 56:40

Turn that shit off. Yeah, do not talk to them the same way. It is so easy to do. Um, it is so easy to just you're you're there, you're telling people all day long, why don't they get it? You pay these people to get it, they don't get it, they can't be the employee. At the same time, what people don't understand being a partner of an entrepreneur. And so it's funny because a lot of people say, like, two entrepreneurs have to be together.

SPEAKER_04: 57:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:06

I don't know the answer to it. I actually don't know the answer to that either, because it could work, but it could also, in my mind, be very catastrophic.

SPEAKER_01: 57:12

Totally. I can see it both ways.

SPEAKER_02: 57:14

Very catastrophic. Like, I have when I was single again a couple years ago after 15 years, um, you know, it was all like, oh, you need to date these super successful men. And I was like, they just wanted to peacock around me.

SPEAKER_06: 57:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:26

And then I was like, okay, if we have to get both of ours out on the table, dude, then I'm gonna go. And then that brings me out of my feminine energy.

SPEAKER_05: 57:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:33

It doesn't put me in my feminine energy, which is where I wanted to be.

SPEAKER_05: 57:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:36

And so for me, finding a partner who had different talents, different aspirations, but respect for mine, meanwhile, me having respect for theirs, that was key. So you can't treat them like an employee. You can't fault them for having an employee mentality.

SPEAKER_04: 57:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:54

They're never, you may have to accept that they never understand what you do. As long as they don't hinder you and they acknowledge you and they push you the way that you need to be pushed, they don't have to understand it. Yeah, they just have to be supportive of it.

SPEAKER_01: 58:08

I find that very few people understand. They don't, right? It's like, and they think it's about the money. That's where they get it wrong. That's where everybody gets it wrong. That's where you're getting it wrong. You know, so they all think it's about the money. It's not about the money.

SPEAKER_02: 58:20

It's never about it.

SPEAKER_01: 58:21

It's about building something. And like for me now, it took 10 years to realize this. It's about building something that actually creates change, right? It takes a long time to actually see that part, you know, and that's where I'm at now is every single business I open changes something. It's for profit because money is a tool. You have to have it, yes, you know, and you want it to be efficient, you know, but at the same time, it needs to change something, and that's the cheat code. But in the partner relationship, getting them to understand that, I don't know how to do it still.

SPEAKER_02: 58:50

They just may never, Tyler. And that's what we have to accept.

SPEAKER_01: 58:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 58:54

That they just may never. So while you and I feel the weight of the responsibility of the$400,000 payroll coming at us every two weeks, yeah. Okay, all of the people that you're employing, all of the promises that have been made, all of the vendors, all of the that, yeah, they may not understand that. That's not their fault. Yeah, nothing's wrong with that. They're not meant to. So it's a mutual understanding of and a respect of you get this part, I get that part, but they can't get in your way. If somebody gets in your way, if somebody gets in my way, I'm mowing them over.

SPEAKER_01: 59:29

That's and that's what I've had to do because you know, quite often, you know, uh it's you don't understand. Like they think it's about the money, right? And so, yes, if you're to give up all these hours for just the money, that's fucking stupid. Right. You know, it's like it's not worth it. But you they don't, and you try to make them understand it's like it's more than the money. Yeah, it's it's my mission, it's my purpose in life, it's why I exist. And when you're trying to hold me back from that, you're not trying to hold me back from money, you know, you're trying to hold me back from what I feel I'm supposed to do in this world, and that's where it becomes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:00

Well, then perhaps you know the best thing is to have somebody with an aligned mission. Now, I'm also not a fan, I've seen it work, but in small cases, I'm not a fan of spouses working together. One's always dominant and it's a problem. Um, but there's things that they can do that can align with that vision that I think is very purposeful. The other thing, maybe, Tyler, is that maybe if you did find the right one, part of your mission and purpose would change.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:30

That would be interesting. You know, it's funny, as much as I love kids, you know, and like my my niece is my favorite little being on this earth. Yeah. My niece, my niece and my German Shepherd, favorite beings on this planet, you know. It's like, and so like you're there is part of you that like I really did this business thing, the school thing, this double job thing for, you know, now I'm 44 years old. It's like, did I did I miss something? You know, and so you could be right. But today's not about me. So but you didn't miss anything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:56

You're exactly where you're supposed to be. And again, there's still an amazing amount of time.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:01

And we're entering, I mean, this this time of transition right now, yeah, in the entire world is crazy. I don't think, I think a lot of people are doing a lot of self-work, a lot of uh reflection, a lot of inflection right now. Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:15

The world is changing right now, and so you know, I'm willing to be a little vulnerable too, to like get out to the 25-year-old out there that right now, like that there is pro and a con. I'm not just gonna tell you like shove business down your throat because it's right for everybody. It's not, you know, it's like, and that's what I wanted to get with the deathbed stuff too. It's like when I've done my research on this stuff, you know, it's like the happiest people on the planet were ones that had like the nine to five job, that were home with their family, that took the family vacations every year. It all had to do with family and community. So if you're gonna give that up and you're gonna give that time up for something like this, make sure it's something of value. That's like the main thing that I like to get across to people. Is like if you're gonna give your life up towards this stuff, it's not the Ferrari. I'm telling you. Like, I don't know anybody that's 60-year-old, 50 years old, 40 years old with no family with the Ferrari that's actually happy in life. No, I don't either.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:05

I some of the the wealthiest people I know are truthfully miserable. And they're still lost on what importance is. And the more money you have, the more afraid of money you become. It's people don't understand that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:17

It's totally true.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:17

I I was bore, I swear to God, I slept better bartending at Houston's, yeah, knowing I could pick up an extra shift here and there than I do now. Yeah, I swear to God. It's a it's a tremendous responsibility. And um and it can go. It it can and it can, and all of these different things. So yeah, I I would just say for the young entrepreneurs, a couple of things. Number one, if you feel that fire, identify where it comes from to the best of your ability, knowing that that can change and adapt. Yeah, harness that and let that be your driver. And also, success is not just financial. So, you know, if you say, I want to start a company, well, you know what? Maybe if you start a company where you have eight employees and you make$250,000 a year and you have time with your family and you have time, that's also success.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:12

People I know are solopreneurs, you know, they're making their$100,000,$200,000 a year. They're the only employee. And they're living their lives.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:20

And so again, let's redefine what success is.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:24

Why you feel that need, who you're trying to prove it to, if it's anybody other than yourself, do your best to eliminate that factor and go within and then figure that out. And then that's what you harness. And don't do it because somebody told you you should.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:37

There's so much to unpack in your story. And unfortunately, we're running out of time. But I really want to get, let's get let's get to the part where you create this this first hospice center, right? And then how many does that become?

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:49

So after Mike and Jerry and I started the hospice company, so hospice is a service, not necessarily a place. Okay. So even when they have a building, um, some own their own, but usually it's it's rented. So we would go out into patients' homes. Now their home may be a private home, assisted living, nursing home, group home, but that's in their home. So in the state of Arizona, in five and a half years, we became the third largest for-profit company. Wow. No marketing, no TV commercials, no radio ads, no hired TV stars with nonprofit money.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:21

You might not be able to use that. I'm gonna get in so much trouble for that, but I don't give a shit. Everybody thinks it. Um, I'm glad you brought up nonprofit. Um, but you know, we just did what we said we were gonna do and we were slamming. And then in 2015, this big word palliative was being thrown around. And people were talking about palliative care, but when you called around, palliative care was basically a marketer from hospice or a social worker calling you to see if they were hospice ready, not actually doing anything. So we actually went to the state of Arizona and we went to Medicare and said, what do we have to do to create a hosp a palliative company? And we created the first provider-based home-based palliative care company in the country. I know why nobody else did it because we lost$625,000 before we had our first break-even month. And every month after that wasn't breakeven, but it was the right thing to do. There was all these people that we couldn't help yet because they weren't quite hospice ready for one reason or another, that you just leave out there until their next hospitalization. So it was the right thing to do. So yeah, we grew this business, we got national attention for what we did, and then I started getting a bunch of calls. And um, I ended up selling to a private equity firm in 2018.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:27

How many uh location or how many like is there a way to gauge size? Like, how could you tell me the size at that point?

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:33

Yeah. So in in Phoenix, at the time that I sold, we had 318, excuse me, 322 hospice patients, 318 palliative palliative care patients. Wow. It's a good census um for a single-site hospice. And then after I sold to private equity and we became the Sage hospice family of companies, we acquired agencies, um, others in Phoenix, as well as Utah, Colorado, and Georgia. And we were the Sage family of companies that did hospice, palliative care, and mobile medical. And so it was wonderful. And then they just sold again because we just hit the seven-year mark. So the private equity just sold to another private equity. Wow. And I'm officially out now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:11

That's amazing. What an amazing journey. And there were so many. And I feel like we could have gone down. I really wanted to touch on like the um the deathbed experience, the you know, the dating, you know, stuff, because I know you've you've seen such a vast amount of people in their most vulnerable moments, that people that have been together 40, 50 years, and what made that happen. And like, I think there's so much value. And not only did I wanted to bring your business value into this, which you brought incredibly, but I wanted to bring that other side of value so people can understand that. You know, it's like I think to like, I was thinking about this this morning. When I was 20 years old, and I'm embarrassed to admit this, you looked up to the womanizer, right? The guy that like knew how to hit on any woman at the bar and that things like that. And now I look up to this guy that's the incredible family man and spending all the all time all this time with their kids. You know, it's like when you're 20 years old, you look up to the cars and the houses and things like that. And now I look at somebody like Scott Neeson, who has made so much impact in Cambodia that he's a national hero, you know? And so it's amazing how our mentality will change and what we admire, you know. And I think the quicker you can get to some of that, the quicker you can really work on what's important. And so that folks is what I wanted to bring you into today. Um, and thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:26

Do you have any special notes for the audience before we do I have to say goodbye for this time? We're gonna have to bring this back another time. You have my number. Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:35

You have my number, we'll travel in the rain. Um, I I guess what I would say is if you are thinking about becoming an entrepreneur, yeah, get deep, get authentic, get transparent. I would say that's more important than even getting clear.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:51

And then know enough to what you want to disrupt, hate, change, and go. Don't get in paralysis analysis. You don't have to, that's the other thing that people do. They think they have to start on this big scale.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:05

You don't.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:06

No.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:06

You start by one. I just had somebody reach out to me about wanting to open up a dog grooming place, and they're like, Do you know where we could get funding for a retail shop? And I go, why don't you just start going to people's homes?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:19

It's it's what people don't want to do. That's the problem. Do you really want to do this or don't you? You know, it's like, and that's what kind of drives me nuts. Where can I get funding for this? The answer is you can't for the most part. You know, I'm sorry. You know, the average business start cost is six thousand dollars. Average business start cost. I started my first one with four thousand dollars, right? It's like if you can't go out there, get a bar job and a second job, you know, and start and save that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:40

$1,000?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:40

Yeah, and get a clipper and a little truck, you know, it's like, then you don't want it enough. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:45

Then what are you doing? Yeah, but also don't you find we're gonna go down a rabbit hole, but I just gotta throw this out there. Don't you find that a lot of the people who do live in that paycheck to paycheck, not because they have to, yeah, but because they get money and they spend it, those are not the successful entrepreneurs. No. Entrepreneurs are cheap as hell, man. Yeah, we are cheap. When I was a bartender, I had more money in my savings account than than anybody. And I was a single mom and I didn't starve, but like I was just like, no, I don't need to go get my eyebrows tattooed. And no, I don't need to get my nails done. I mean, it just baffled me, it baffles me the way that people spend money and then they don't understand it. Like, hey, I need a payday advance. This happened to me all the time. I need, and I always gave it. Yeah, I need a payday advance, I need gas for the car and groceries. I'm like, okay. And they would post mate Starbucks to the office or get a new tattoo. The F are you doing?

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:40

Uh-huh. Like it's, I mean, I was the same. When I was, I was bartending, I was supporting my father and myself and going to school full time. And I went through this period of time where I was like, I hated the bank. Yeah. And so I would take my paychecks and I would put them actually in the bottom of this speaker that had this like uh compartment. And I would hide them in there. The HR lady came up to me and she's like, You have like 15 paychecks that have never been cashed. You know, it's like, because I was just busy putting the money away. To your point, it's like, how bad do you want it? You know, it's like how you're gonna do something is how you're gonna do everything. If you don't have financial literacy, you can't do this, you know. If you're not willing to save, if you're not willing to sacrifice, it's like, how many years? Like, I went five years without dating. I went, you know, it's like years and years with just working and things like that. How bad do you want it, folks?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:25

That's the thing is if you are currently just flooding away money because you can on, and I'm gonna call it out on Uber Eats, on Postmates, on just being lazy. The bar. Um, on the bar, yeah, um, you are not gonna be a successful business owner. No. Because you're not even watching your money when it's when it's only yours. Why would you watch it when your business is? It the more money you make, the more you're gonna frivolously spend, and then you're gonna end up in the jail for tax evasion.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:51

I mean, people really, really don't get the fact that business money for some reason feels different than personal money. Oh. And you're spending such immense amounts. This is the last thing we'll say, folks, before we gotta go. But it's like when you're spending immense amounts in your business, it makes your personal life seem like nothing and that's dangerous. It's when you've got a$20,000 rent bill for your building versus your$1,500 bill at home, it feels like nothing. When your credit card bill is$100,000 a month and your credit card business bill at home is$5,000, it feels like nothing, and that's dangerous.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:24

It's extremely dangerous. Yeah, watch that now, guys.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:27

We'll go at it again next time. Thank you so much for coming in. Thanks, Tyler. Do you want to drop any social media or anything like that on how to connect with you or the dating service or anything else you're doing?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:37

Well, I'm on LinkedIn, Tiana Zhang, Facebook, Tiana Zhang, Instagram Tiana MF Zhang. All right. Thanks to Whitney. Yes. Um, and the dating business that I have transitioned fully over to Marnie. Okay. So I did my startup thing, we got off and running, and now she's going is my mindful match. You can find that at my mindfulmatch.com.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:56

Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:57

Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:58

All right, underdogs. Thanks so much for tuning in. I felt like this could have gone on for three hours. There was so much that I wanted to get for you out of Tiana. She's here to help us today. Um, I thought you, I hope you got a lot of value out of that. I hope we touched the subjects right and answered the questions you wanted. I'll be back next week, folks. So good to see you. We'll see you again soon. Hello and welcome to Underdogs, Bootstrappers, and Game Changers. This is for those of you that are starting with nothing and using business to change their stars. Motivating people who disrupted industry standards. This is the real side of business. This isn't Shark Tank. My aim with this podcast is to take away some of the imaginary Problocks that are out there. I want to help more underdogs because underdogs are truly to change the world. This is part of our Content for Good initiative. All the proceeds from the monetization of this podcast will go to charitable causes. It's for the person that wants it.