
The One About Careers
Welcome to The One About Careers with Devon and Sarah-Jane, the career podcast for adults who work with, live with or mentor teens that are finding it a challenge to plan for life after high school.
Join us weekly for bite-sized conversations about everything career and education to help you better support the career decisions of the teens in your life.
The One About Careers
Options After High School: Gap Year
Gap years get a bad rap in North America, but Devon and Sarah-Jane are both big fans!
To help us talk about this subject, we've invited our VERY. FIRST. GUEST. to talk more about it, one of the foremost experts on gap years in Canada, Michelle Dittmer, President and Co-Founder of the Canadian Gap Year Association.
Tune in to find out more about what a gap year is, who takes one and what it might look like for the young person in your life.
Website: www.cangap.ca
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuBit8gLXEOxaBggoGmykjQ
Podcast: https://thegapyearpodcast.podbean.com/
Welcome to The One About Careers with Devon and Sarah-Jane, a career podcast for adults involved with teens navigating life after high school. We help you help your teens make informed education and career decisions by providing quality information and resources. Join us for weekly bite -sized conversations covering various aspects of careers, including insights and professionals in different fields. New episodes available every week at theoneaboutcareers.com.
Hey, here we are back again on The One About Careers. Welcome back everybody. So today is a bit of a milestone episode here at The One About Careers because we have our very first guest on the show. Today we are going to be chatting with Michelle Dittmer, who is the president and co-founder of the Canadian Gap Year Association. Michelle is an educator and youth advocate that has taught grades four through to college, developed international service learning programs, nurtured educational partnerships with school boards from coast to coast, and developed youth policy. Having a finger on the pulse of the needs of young learners, combining their need for experiential learning and developing reflective and values aligned practices. She founded the Canadian Gap Year Association to raise the profile of gap year as a solution to mental health, lack of clarity and the skill gap.
Welcome, Michelle! Well, thank you. I'm so honored to be your very first guest. Wow. We're excited. And super pumped.
And we are super pumped. And I don't even I can't even tell you sort of when I met Michelle. It was a while ago and we wanted to have her on 'cause frankly, we all agree on the same thing. So let's just start with, essentially we did a series about options after high school. And in our last episode, we said, oh, there's more. And it was this idea of a gap year and it doesn't have to include one thing. And so Michelle, I just wanna start by asking you about CanGap. So cangap.ca is Michelle's website. And there's some other stuff, but we're gonna take it away, Michelle. Tell us about CanGap. –
Yeah, so I'll jump in kind of to the origin story 'cause I think that provides a little bit of context. So once upon a time, I was a high school teacher. And what I was seeing with my students was that they became really good box checkers. They were,
they were getting really good at like, what do I need to pass this class? What do I need to get a 90? And when I asked them, like, who are you? What are you all about? What is, what excites you? Those questions just were like, is that going to be on the test? Like that was the response. You're in headlights. Yeah. And what I really saw was that, hey, we've kind of squeezed out all of that exploration and discovery and self -discovery in place of more STEM courses. And that doesn't serve young people very well. And so instead of trying to chang the system, which is a very slow moving beast, I looked at how could I influence it from the outside. And through all my research, I saw that gap years were super popular in the UK and Australia,
but that didn't exist here in Canada. And part of the reason why is it's not part of our culture. And so a lot of people need permission to take this time. And that's really what the Canadian gap your association does is it gives you permission and provides you with resources if you want or need to take a break from being a student.
And I think that's that's kind of where we came from. And so that's what we're trying to do is we're trying to make it possible for young people to identify, hey, I'm not ready for the next step for whatever reason. And this is what I'm going to do in the interim. This is what I'm going to do during my gap time because sitting on the couch is not an option. So we help people figure out if they should gap or not, and then if they are going to gap, how are they gonna make it purposeful time? That's really the essence of what we do.
Okay, so I'm intrigued or confused, not sure which. What do you mean this is instead of the next step, what's the assumption there?
Yeah, so what society tells us is that after high school comes more formal schooling and that's the story, that's the narrative that we're fed and it's a very, very strong narrative. Young people feel it, parents feel it and when we're not making that direct transition, we feel or we are told or society tells us that we are failing.
We are not doing the right thing. And so for the gap year option, is that this is a step that you can take after high school to figure out what that next step is.
So this isn't a gap decade. This isn't a gap lifestyle. It could be if you find a way to make it work for you. But for most people, this is a period of time that's bookended.
It's a period of time of discovery and exploration that's going to set you up for whatever comes next, whether that's more school, whether that's entering the workforce, entering into an apprenticeship, working abroad, whatever that looks like. This is a finite time that gives you permission to do that discovery and then you're going to step into the next step.
So what exactly does so why would someone connect to you?
Yeah, great question. Yeah, so really it's when you need answers. If you know what you're gonna do, how to do it, how to defer your acceptance to university, if you've got all those answers already answered by all means go for it yourself, but if you need any support at any step of the way, that's what we're here to do. People having bad gap years is bad for our little nonprofit. We want everybody to have the most amazing time and that looks different for every person. So if you need support, if you need help deciding if you should take a gap year or not. If you need help getting your parents on board. If you need help getting your young person on board. About 25 % of the families we work with, the parents are saying, "Geez, my kid needs to slow down. They need a break. They're not mature enough. They're not ready. They don't know what they want to do." And the kids say, "No, no, no." And so if you need help getting other family members on board, we can help with that. If you need to figure out what's possible because in high school you're the somebody literally rings a bell tells you what room to go to what seat to sit in what book to open what questions to answer and if you got the answer right or wrong and so stepping out of that very highly structured environment can be very overwhelming because you have to make a lot of decisions and I can tell you that's not a strength of 2024 2025 grads, we need to practice that and so we can support with that and make sure that we're filling that gap year with the right purpose, with the right direction, and with the right activities to make it a valuable time.
That's, I mean, you know, I've been a big fan of yours since we first met and gap years are something I so often talk to students about and it's like you're saying, I mean, we heard the same things too. And you know, it's funny, I worked in admissions for quite a few years. And it's the number of times you would see, particularly because it was a college and colleges tend to have open programs, you know, quite a, quite a ways in. And you'd see parents marching the kid up, well, you're not going to sit around and do nothing. So your only other option, you're going to go to school, because you can't sit around and do nothing. And it's, I think, just the to give people, um, to let them know, like, actually, there's more than two choices. I mean, we've been doing that with our, uh, our recent series anyway. But I think it's interesting to what you bring up because Sarah-Jane and I talked about this when we talked about volunteering, um, or like even talking interest or whatever is book ending, having a boundary on it. Like it's not just about wandering until you figure it out. It's about kind of being so purposeful, you're like, okay, I can start to see where this is leading and figuring out how to make decisions more effectively. It's all so amazing.
Yeah, and I think it's really interesting you talk about like the parents, I'm going to use the word “forcing,” but by getting their kids when the kid is not ready, when the student is not ready, about 30 % of the people we work with are kids who have been pushed into some sort of higher ed and they fail because either they weren't academically ready, maybe it wasn't their choice, maybe their mental health wasn't in the right state, maybe they weren't mature enough, maybe they made poor decisions because it wasn't their decision. And when they come to us after an attempt that was not successful,
we have to spend the first half of their gap you're unpacking that. No, you're not stupid. No, you can go back. You are going to be successful in higher ed.
It was just the wrong place, the wrong time for you, maybe the wrong program. But they get this baggage that they bring with them. I was not successful. It's not for me. I'm a failure. And so when you can make that proactive choice, it's actually a huge gift to allow them to be proactive rather than accumulating this baggage that you have to carry with you for a long time.
Yeah, one of the chapters in my book, Lost and Found in Adult Sky to Empowering Teens to Make Their Best Career Decision, is there are no failures only outcomes.
And the, you know, I often talk about people trying something out and not liking it as a win because they absolutely now have a much greater understanding of what they don't like and what they like and perhaps what they don't want and what they want and to tick off something off the you know oh it's no longer shiny penny because they tried it and didn't like it you know we all have these fantasies about work frankly
and we think Oh, you know, this career is going to be, for those of us who are interested in meaning and money, you know, we think, oh, this has got it all. And then you go in and do it and it's like, maybe not so much. And so it's great to kind of eliminate that. an you give us some examples of the things that you do in CanGap so that people can understand, oh, Is it like, is it a set program? Is it like, what happens? Say I'm, I'm an adult, I'm a parent of a kid who I think this they would benefit from this. How do I describe it to my kid?
Great question. Well, we know that parents are great influencers of post secondary decisions. So, having conversations with them is really helpful, but we also know you're still mom and dad and some of your ideas are garbage. So we have an incredible YouTube channel filled with gap year ambassadors who are gap year alum who have completed their gap year and they share their tips and tricks and observations on it.
So I think it's really important And we not only share our opinions as parents, but also we show other perspectives and that peer -to -peer relationship and studies show that young people consider people their age on YouTube, their peers, it's not just their friend circle, having them to see that perspective from other people. So putting it on their radar and letting them know you are not opposed to it. Because so many young people make the assumptions, "Oh, my mom would never let me do that." And really a lot of parents are like, "Oh, you know what, that might actually be a good idea." So being very, very transparent that this is on the table, this is an option and you would be supportive of it is really, really helpful. On our website, we've got tons of downloads for you. We have a gap year starter checklist. So what are the things you need to think about? We've got a gap your decision guide that you can download. It's a flowchart that will take you through how do you decide if this is right for you. We've got free 30-minute calls. Anybody wants to have a chat with our team? Book a free call. And it's not a sales call. We're not leading you into anything you have to pay for. We offer free programs, free services, everything's free. So book a call and get your questions answered and see what's out there and see if you could get your young person excited about something other than being a student for a while.
And so what kind of things would they do during this time? - It really varies depending on the person and the beauty of a gap year is that is so individualistic. So you get to choose what your curriculum for lack of a better word is for the entire year. And that really depends on why you're taking a gap year. If you're taking a gap year because you are academically burnt out and the thought of opening another textbook just makes you so uncomfortable, then you're probably not going to want to take all sorts of courses on your gap time. If you're taking it because you don't know what you want to do in terms of a job or a career or a direction. You're going to spend your time figuring that out, maybe doing some job shadowing, maybe some informational interviews, maybe you're going to volunteer in something related to the careers that you're exploring. Some people travel, I think a lot of people think, "Well, this is going to cost me big bucks. I got to buy a one-way ticket and strap on a backpack." And while a lot of people do travel, Canadians, they usually travel for a very short amount of time. It's not the gap year of the 1970s where you're gone for a year. But you do a little bit of travel, perhaps, but it really is in that independence building and confidence building lens that you really take away from that travel. So really depending on why you're taking it and what you're interested in, those activities can vary very, very much. A lot of people do work on their gap year. We know the cost of post -secondary is growing along with the cost of living and young people are really aware of that. So to be able to reduce your student loans is a huge advantage for a lot of students.
Awesome. So essentially you're saying what Devon and I were coming up with is that although we there were 10 options, we lied. There's more, because in the gap year, of course, you can do all of the 10 that we mentioned before, generally. You could do all of them in your gap year, 'cause you could do a bit here and a bit there. And I love the idea that you were mentioning in terms of it's not cookie cutter. And I saw Devon taking notes, but yeah, anything. We were both like YouTube channel, 'cause we wanna put links in our show notes. So We're gonna do a link to cangap.ca, even though you've just heard me say it, so you figured it out. We'll get the link. Can we do the link to the YouTube channel, Michelle? Is that okay?
Of course, yeah. Awesome.
I can send that over.
Perfect. Is there anything else that you would want to share with our audience that's critical as we wrap up this episode?
We also have a great podcast. So if you're listening to this podcast, you're obviously podcast people. So we have incredible guests that come on. We talk to alum,
we talk to parents of gappers, and all of our tips and tricks can be found in there, whether it's how to have a farming gap year, how to build an art portfolio on a gap year, how to finance your gap year, how to have a working gap year, all of that can be found on the podcast. And really your, your gap year is your, what I call your risk-free trial on life. It's your opportunity without investing anything major to try something out. And if it doesn't work, you turn, try something else out.
Awesome. And what's the name of your podcast? Very unoriginally, the gap year podcast.
Awesome.
That gets the point across. Listen, if I'm giggling that, I'm going to get there.
Exactly. Awesome. Thank you so so much for coming in with us today, Michelle.
You are very welcome. It's been my pleasure. I'm never tired of talking about this.
Thanks for listening to The One About Careers podcast. You can catch up with past episodes at theoneaboutcareers.com. Join us next week for another bite-sized conversation.