Meet Vicki: A Little Neurospicy

In this episode, Devon and Sarah-Jane chatted with Vicki Noels-Cornish, who is a fellow career pro. Vicki's pathway has been a little different than Devon and Sarah-Jane's, mainly because she defines herself as "neurospicy."

If you have ADHD, a learning disability or you feel like you fall into the category of neurodivergence, you definitely don't want to miss this episode!

A few of our big takeaways:

• What it means to be "neurospicy," and how that can impact your career and your work life
• The impact of getting fired
• Seeing your neurodivergence as a superpower
• The societal and very gendered assumptions about ADHD
• Ideas of the kinds of accommodations you could ask for in the workplace
• An introduction to the Kolbe Assessment
• Flipping the script to see the world as "innovation deficient" and figuring out how you can solve that

Resources:

The Company YOU - Vicki's business

The Kolbe Assessment

Transcript

Welcome to The One About Careers with Devon and Sarah Jane. A career podcast for adults involved with teens navigating life after high school. We help you help your teens make informed education and career decisions by providing quality information and resources. Join us for weekly, bite -sized conversations covering various aspects of careers, including insights from professionals and different fields. New episodes available every week at theoneaboutcareers .com.

Hello, welcome back to The One About Careers with Devon and Sarah-Jane We're continuing our fabulous series where we're interviewing real humans and asking them about their life and work. Who do we have on the hot seat today? Today, we are talking to Vicki Noels -Kharnesh, who is like us. Well, actually, I don't know if you're certified. Anyway, Vicki's a certified career development practitioner, speaker, and founder of the company, You, a career personal and team development practice helping individuals and organizations discover the best you. Welcome, Vicky. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I love doing this
Uh, so someone told me that there was a piece about your career that has to do
with being "neurospicy." Oh, I like it. Yep. Yeah. Can you like, uh, tell us a little more about what, what the heck does that mean and how did it
play out in your career world? Yeah. So, um, - Yeah,
neurospicy, I love it. Formally diagnosed with ADHD, which is attention deficit
hyperactivity disorder. I would have said growing up, well, when I was younger,
I remember hearing the term hyperactive. And there were maybe, I think my little boy
I knew growing up was hyperactive because they found him on the roof at four years
of age. And they were like, this is impulsive behavior, this isn't good. And so he
got this hyperactivity diagnosis, and then went on medication to kind of quell the
impulsivity. And because it was difficult in learning environments for teachers to be
able to teach a class when you've got maybe one or two boys that are a little bit
over excited and showing up as distractible. And so that wasn't me.
I was very a people pleaser behaved very well but academically did very well because
I knew if I wanted to get the same reinforcement and rewards that all the other
kids were getting that I had to show up in a way that got me that attention.
So I just put my head down and learned how to get the marks that I needed to be
successful. And then I think I went to teacher's college. So I should say I first
started in drama because I really my first love is performance but I didn't really
like doing the same show after the sixth night. I got bored and was like I can't
make a career of this. I can't make a career doing something in a night environment
every night the same thing and trying to make it new for an audience that deserves
to have an excellent and fresh show every night. So then I went to teachers college
because I remember my one instructor at university said, those who can do, those who
can't teach. So I'm like, okay, I guess I'm teaching then. Taught for a year.
And I do remember learning about, at that time we were starting to call it just
attention deficit disorder. The hyperactivity wasn't even really a part of it. And I
learned that, you know, there's going to be children that will need to have a
little bit of a different edge, maybe like pull their desk apart, have their desk
sit beside yours. Maybe they need to go stand in the hall because they're
distracting like all the things which I actually would get in trouble for growing up
like I was a social butterfly. And so I learned all these tactics on how to deal
with those problem children in the class and then I ended up becoming like there's
quite a path there that I found that that career development was where I really
shone and ended up getting a job as a student recruiter and I know you've had
actually know that Devon used to do this which is really where I shone because I
had my career development which I love inspiring people about what what their paths
are But because you have to go out and do the presentations and inspire young
people, I got to do the performance piece too. So that's where I found I was
really doing well. But being in the college, it's unionized and so there's a path
you have to follow in order to get to whatever level, but it's all based on
seniority. I thrive
like merit and recognition for doing a good job, which we got,
like, thanks, you know, numbers look good, wasn't enough. And a friend of mine was
like, oh, Vicki, like I'm starting an HR practice. I think you'd be a great
consultant. What do you think? And I felt like, wow, here's somebody that really
wants me, right? So I went and I took the dive, I quit my job, and I went and
became an HR consultant in an accounting firm and right out of the gate started to
get criticism about attention to detail, forgetting or being late to appointments
because I forgot or didn't have it in my calendar at the right time. And just all
of the things that when I was student recruiting, my whole team was like me,
we all had each other's backs. So you know, at the end of the day, don't forget
we're here tomorrow morning early. Don't forget this, like let me proofread your
emails before you send them out to make sure you didn't get any, you don't have
any spelling errors. So I took it for granted that people are always going to have
my back and then I get into this, this neurotypical environment, this corporate
environment where those kind of mistakes cost money and and can damage their
reputation, I thought something was wrong with me. So I went to the doctor and I
got some, I asked him, like I think, like I forgot a very major partner meeting.
And I've, you know, I've been really criticized for that. And I'm really worried
that maybe I have early onset Alzheimer's or something, because this isn't like me.
Because I wasn't like me, or at least I and think it was because I always had
somebody catching me, but now I didn't. And then I started to put some some
workarounds in place and then I was let go, not for performance because I was doing
okay, but after the pandemic, there were some just some economic changes that had to
happen. And so they decided that they wanted to go a different direction with the
HR consulting practice. And I really focused on recruiting because that's what I was
good at and they're like I don't think we're going to do that anymore so I was
let go but just the devastation of being fired when I'm an overachiever and just
couldn't understand that I went and I lined up a therapist because I knew I'm gonna
fall I'm gonna get depressed and depression is something that I have been diagnosed
with in the past which I'm starting to wonder am I really depressed or was I just
not getting the right help. - Right. - But that's the journey I'm on now.
But anyway, my therapist said, "Well, have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD?" And I
kind of laughed. I said, "Well, you know, I kind of know I have it "because my
son was going through some stuff at the time. "I'm like, I'm pretty sure he gets
it from me." And she's like, "Well, why haven't you been diagnosed?" And I said,
"Well, why would I get diagnosed? "I'm telling you right now, I have it. "I'm
surviving like what's the big deal and she said because a lot of new science has
come up even within the last six months I'll say that is saying that especially
women do have ADHD but don't get diagnosed because the hyperactivity shows up in
daydreaming or what we'll call daydreaming but the thoughts are in your head and
because girls tend to be people pleasers, they will keep their mouth quiet and they
will sit still because they don't want to get in trouble. And I'm, I'm hearing this
and like, this is exactly it. And I'm sensitive and I will cry. And I would get
so, like people would tease me for crying, oh, there goes Vicki, she's crying again.
So I would just learn to do what I needed to do. So I wouldn't get put in
situations where I was sensitive or would cry or whatever. And I'm like, Okay, so
I, yeah, that was the first thing I wrote down. When you started talking to you
talked about the boys, right? Because it was always boys who were labeled as being
like unruly and that kind of thing. And it's,
it was the first thing I wrote was gender, here we go. Because in my world also,
with personality, understanding personality temperament,
I do think there's a temperament that also is very physical and moving. And so that
behavior is labeled as disruptive as opposed to maybe there's some energy there.
And I know one teacher, she was allowing some of her students to stand at their
desks. So they could just be moving their body while they're working away. And it
was like a godsend to the kids who were allowed to do that, because now all of a
sudden it wasn't a weird thing. It was exactly what they needed to do to help them
focus. And so, ugh, what a journey. And what a,
like, it comes down a lot to how we're socialized, what we're conditioned to
understand as
like preferred behaviors. And then see, here I go,
I lost my train of thought a little bit here. And this happens. And I'm starting
to like, not shame myself over it, because this is what I've done all my life.
- Yeah, as soon as you said early Alzheimer's, I was like, no, like I just felt so
ill for you 'cause I'm like, man. - But I know what it's gonna say and it comes
down to control a lot of times. Like if I tell people that I have ADHD, I can
just tell the people that are gonna be like, is that a thing? Like really,
you're using that as an excuse. And then I get so emotionally dysregulated quickly,
which is another aspect of it. But then I have to mask just in order to not be
the person that's just like ornery and whatever.
So, but I've had 51 years of working the same way that I'm trying to undo now or
to at least come up with new ways. And it's, if you can just relinquish some of
that control and let people show up the way they need to, it's amazing the things
that you will then get to experience because they're probably going to be more
innovative. And especially if they're not afraid to say stuff. Because yeah, I've got
some pretty quirky ideas. And I know that out like to a neurotypical person,
they're rolling their eyes thinking, oh my God, what kind of like crap are you
spitting out? And like, okay, it might be a really big idea, but I'm gonna rely on
you as the neurotypical person to poke holes in that. And maybe we can come up
with something that maybe isn't so crazy, but is different, that meets both things
and allows us to move forward in a way that we haven't thought of before. - That
really speaks to like sort of that idea of neuro spicy you know it's um we focused
so long I mean I when I first started hearing about ADD and ADHD like I was
working in summer camps and it was hey this is something kids might come in with
and whatever and I'm so much more um educated about it now as we all are but um
it's one of those things where it was like we always talked about it as a
disability you know it's lumped in with like learning disabilities in some places and
it's right, but it's like so often when I've worked with people like had coworkers
who have ADHD, that ability to see the world completely differently is it's such a
strength on a team. And yeah, if you have that openness of communication to be able
to say, okay, this is ADHD brain throwing out a completely wild idea.
And you have a room full of people who go, "This is very interesting. How can we
massage that?" You're going to be a superpower as an organization, but if
organizations don't recognize that, they're cutting off their nose despite their face,
so to speak. Yeah. I work with an assessment. It's called the Colby Assessment.
It's very similar, if you think about the Myers -Briggs. Myers -Briggs looks at
personality. But this Colby looks at, it's a new frame of thought,
rather than just having a brain that is thinking and feeling, which is the old Carl
Jung kind of thought that we have two brains, or two minds. This Kathy Colby came
in and said, "But what about our natural instincts, the natural way that we do
things, because we do things even as babies that we need to get food and get
attention, we have to look at that. And so it looks at your natural strengths.
And a lot of times I find that people who come out as a quick start in that
assessment,
probably, and I'm not, I don't want to get in trouble and have people like start
throwing back at me different comments and whatnot. But I'm like, the people that I
see getting assessed as high in quick start, which is part of the theory,
a lot of them will say, "I have ADHD," because,
it's very intentionally looking at strengths, and the strength with somebody like that
is that they are innovative, they are fast, they're impulsive,
their risk is not an issue for them. They will take risks every time because they
want to know what the shiny new thing is going to be like and they're comfortable
with the consequence that it might not work out the way that I want, but then I'll
just go back and I'll redo it. Whereas like a lot of neurotypical people that are
a bit more aware of risk and concerned will be like she's nuts,
like she's crazy doing stuff like that. But I'm like,
Are they crazy or are they just, you know, maybe they just need somebody to give
them alternatives. So if you do fail in your risky thing that you're going to do,
make sure you think of this before you end up hurting yourself or whatever. And I
have found that to be really helpful in working with teams to say, like, if you've
got people on your team that you're thinking are doing stuff just a little bit more
haphazard than than you would. How can we look at what they do and give them jobs
within the scope of their work that allows them to work in a way that will make
them feel good about themselves will help you meet the bottom line and in the end
will build a culture that is trusting because people are feeling that you've got
their back, you're letting them do the work they need. But then you're also going
to end up with happier co -workers or employees who are working actually more
effective and efficiently because they're allowed to work the way they need. Knowing
what you know now, Vicki. Yup.
What advice would you give your teenage self?
I would say, make sure you know yourself, spend the time to get to know yourself,
advocate for yourself, learn what your strengths are and think of it.
What if you were the one that did the research, and you were like all those
innovative deficient people out there. It's too bad they have a disorder that they
can't innovate. How are we going to help them so they can show up in a world
where we're all like thinking about new stuff all the time and they feel bad
because they aren't able to live the way we live. Like flip the script,
look at there, look at everybody's what maybe sometimes what what other people think
is annoying, maybe it's just a strength strengthen a different spotlight and how can
you help them shine rather than put out their spark? The experience you have when
you say I have ADHD and the response you get and I'm like you know what I never
get that response when I say I'm extroverted. It's acceptable to be an extrovert
it's not acceptable to have ADHD or to be it's,
I shouldn't say it's acceptable. Yeah, maybe acceptable is the word. It's just, it's
not as understood. And when you started talking about innovative deficient,
I'm like, she's talking about me, probably.
What a great way to frame things. The lens that has been used to describe it is
always, It's a deficit, it's a disability, it's a disorder, but you put it in the
right context and it's like Devon was saying earlier, it's a superpower, it really
is. I just think there's lots of opportunity to, and that's part of my mission now
is I want to empower, I want to educate and I want to change the mindset for
everyone because it doesn't, I mean, we see it in work because, You know people
like that's how we that's our identity and we spend so much time working But in
life and in just being in general, let's be a little bit more open and see where
like open and accepting of all differences because I think it really can be So
beautiful Yeah Yep Thank you so much Vicki for joining us on The One About Careers
things are changing. Yes, good time. Well, thank you Stay tuned for the next episode of the One About Careers.

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