Hospitality by Design with Steven Upchurch, Co-Managing Director of Gensler

Good vibes. That’s probably the ultimate compliment when one enters into a space.  An environment viscerally impacts how we feel and interact with one another. Imagine creating those just-right vibes for large-scale spaces and places such as airports, city districts, corporate headquarters of international companies, sports arenas, museums, and hospital facilities. Where do you start?  In this interview, Steven Upchurch of Gensler reveals a bit of the blueprint for transformational design. The first note: start finely tuned research and analysis and then you build from there.

Gensler is a global architecture, design, and planning firm with 53 locations and 6,000+ professionals networked across the Americas, Europe, Greater China, Asia Pacific, and the Middle East. 

The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration.

Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Director of Corporate and Public Relations
Sound Engineer and Editor: Andrew Hallock
Graphic Design: Rachel Hamlin, Marketing Manager

Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0

Transcript

Arun: Welcome to the Distinguished podcast produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. I'm Arun Upneja, Dean of the school, and I am pleased to welcome our guest, Steven Upchurch, Co-Managing Director of Gensler, a global architecture, design and planning firm with 53 locations and more than 7,000 professionals across the Americas, Europe, Greater China, Asia Pacific and the Middle East. Steven's extensive and impressive list of clients includes Universal Studios, American Airlines, Waldorf Astoria, Lowe's Hotels and Resorts and many more. Thank you for joining us, Steven. It's a delight to have you here.

Steven: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Arun: So let's first start with Gensler. Tell us more about the firm, how and where did the firm get its start, and what are some of the pivotal projects that have set this firm apart from others and literally put it on the map worldwide?

Steven: Thank you for asking. And our firm was founded in 1965, so we're nearly 60 years ago, by Art Gensler and his wife. We have, as you said, we're very large. We have 53 locations with 7,000 professionals networked across the Americas, Europe, Greater China, Asia Pacific, and the Middle East. Today, there are more than 4,000 clients that we're serving in more than 29 practice areas spanning the work, lifestyle, community, and health sectors.

Arun: So your title says you're co-managing director of the hospitality practice. So you are a hospitality practice leader. What does that title mean in the realm of architecture and design?

Steven: It goes back, you know, 10 years into my architectural career, I left the firm that I was working with and went to Club Corp as their director of architecture. I directed work in private clubs, city clubs, and resorts, including my first club renovation, which was at the Boston City College Club. I was there at Club Corp for six years and, staying in real estate development, actually moved to Chicago. I continued to work in hospitality and that's where my experience began, really, in terms of understanding the operations of clubs, hotels, and resorts, the real estate development side and the importance of everything that has to do with that. And then I missed architecture, and I went back into architecture, enjoying Gensler, taking that experience that I had to Los Angeles in 2007. And since I've been with Gensler since 2007, I've continued to build our expertise and thought leadership in hospitality.

And while the hospitality practice was established in 1985 for Gensler, I aimed to help grow the practice with a focus on building an integrated architectural and interior design firm that was equipped with all the latest technology, including the ability to continue work on upper upscale hotels, luxury hotels, and resorts. Some of the biggest challenges, as we've discussed, and accomplishments, were implementing the Waldorf Astoria in Beverly Hills and the Grand Hyatt for Korean Airlines in Seoul, Korea.

Arun: You know, if I hear the word COVID once more, I kind of tend to scream. But, you know, recently COVID is back here. But more importantly, I think what COVID did to us is it fundamentally changed how we live and work and eat and engage with each other. And I know that Gensler has done a lot of research on these changes that have happened. So can you talk about, in your perspective, from your research, what are the most notable changes in the needs and wants of people that you're seeing from consumers as well as from the developers?

Steven: If we look at some of the research and looking back, you know, pre-pandemic, US travel had actually reached a high of 2.4 billion trips annually. It's just phenomenal. It dropped during COVID to 1.6 billion trips in early 2020. And we're back on track now to have one of the best years ever in travel. The industry now has an opportunity to reinvent itself and rethink the guest experience by connecting people with the place through human-centric, resilient designs. And coming out of COVID last year, our clients and developers were pushing ahead at basically warp speed. They're asking us to bring our best talent to help them pivot, like projects that we're doing where we're converting office buildings to hotels. There are many things that we're doing that, as I said, are on the fast track. And as we issue these packages quickly, I think it's all about speed right now for us. What we're hearing from our clients is not only to create a safer destination that is clean and meets the expectations of the guest, but people are looking for new unique experiences. And these experiences are really driving significant change among all the brands that we're working with today.

Arun: So can you talk about some of the ways in which the design of the spaces, the buildings, the hotels and all other hospitality spaces is changing as a response to COVID?

Steven: Well, a lot of focus has been on creating a connection to the out of doors. So a lot of projects that we're working on, developers, owners, operators, are asking us to ensure that we have not only fresh air coming into the building and we're ensuring through the mechanical system designs that that can happen, but the opportunity to actually be able to open up and connect the space to the out of doors, whether it's a workplace, whether it's a restaurant or a bar in a hotel, the opportunity is there for us to open the space up and make it more inviting for people to go outside. People feel more comfortable being outside since COVID. They feel less confined, and they feel that having that fresh air is extremely important. So this is something that almost every one of our projects, it seems, is very important. And as we look at the designs of projects that we're working on today, hotels, there are spaces that are inherent in a program of a facility like a swimming pool. So creating opportunities to do more and invite guests out to that pool, to have lunch, have a drink, be outside, that is really influencing the design of those types of spaces.

Arun: You know, Steven, for a long time, for many decades, we have seen in the hospitality education aspect where students would start off working in the hospitality industry and then they would move to banks or other industries. So now, you know, when I look at you working with Universal Studios American Airlines, what are traditionally not considered hospitality? So what do they learn from where we have traditionally done stuff?

Steven: Absolutely. I think that, you know, hospitality is immersive. It's very important for us to design places and spaces for hotels and resorts that are extremely immersive. They get the guest into the vibe of whatever the property is. And doing that on other types of projects and in other market sectors that we have the opportunity to work in across our 29 different practice areas has been an incredible opportunity for us. We see everything from cancer treatment centers and law firms, life science campuses that we're working on, and sports complexes. Infuse hospitality into their design. It's more inviting. It's more welcoming. It's more comforting. And there's a big focus in our thought leadership and our experience in hospitality that we bring to projects across health and wellness, sports, sciences, and workplace that we never thought would have existed before. 

And for instance, at American Airlines, it's their new headquarters and their hospitality complex that we worked on, we're infusing hospitality design into the workplace. At the same time, you may have a coffee bar in an office building lobby, but we've designed it as such that it converts into a wine bar in the afternoon or evening and becomes a real social environment for those people that are working there to stop, meet up with friends or coworkers before they leave and go home. 

Arun: When the firm was bidding for the headquarters of the airlines, was it automatically assumed that it was going to be in the hospitality sector? Did you guys go in? I'm just curious, you know, because over time, big companies, there are silos that develop. So how does one understand within the firm, what is hospitality and how do you differentiate between the sectors?

Steven: Good question. I know that when we approached the project and saw this opportunity, we knew that they appreciated the work that we do across the other sectors. How we brought the talent together, the best talent from the firm, from the various practice areas was extremely important. A lot of it is about storytelling and American has a long history, a great story. It's part of their culture to entertain and to take care of people, take care of not only their passengers, but the people that are on the ground, operating the planes, their pilots, their flight attendants. And so we took the approach to really dive into their culture and use that to help guide us in the process of designing all of the spaces that we did from lobbies that have inviting areas for, I call them students.

I mean, when you first start with American Airlines, you are in training and it's very, very intense. And so while you're there for your first visit, whether it's at the headquarters or the hospitality complex, there's a lot of work to be done. And you'll see people actually working and studying in the common areas of the hospitality complex. And so there are lounges, there are spaces that really have a hospitality feel and a sense of comfort, a place where you can socialize with many, but also go be off by yourself to study for courses that you're taking while you're there.

Arun: Yeah, it's very interesting. So there are students, they are taking classes, they are studying in between, but they are socializing at the same time. And it's the headquarters, so there's obviously a lot of cubicles, our office spaces, traditional office employees working there as well. So it's kind of an amazing mix of pretty much everything rolled into one. And I read that article that got wide publicity. There is a hotel attached to it and people were just wowed by that hotel. So congratulations on that amazing, amazing product.

Steven: You have to come see it. It's very expansive. They've got almost 75,000 square feet of fitness areas. So not only can today's employees for American Airlines utilize the facility, but also those that have retired from American have access to the facility so that they can use the fitness center. They can use the swimming pool. There is also a tavern on site that is open for lunch and dinner. So employees can mix and mingle with executives at the airlines. And it's a really exciting thing to see.

Arun: Who would have thought an airline would behave like a tech company in terms of creating their headquarters? Okay, so I want to move on to my favorite topic, which is experience management. So broadly speaking, it's the art and science of crafting, perfecting and delivering of experiences. This approach is now a legitimate discipline. In fact, starting this fall, BU School of Hospitality, we are offering our undergraduates a brand-new course on customer experience management. Over the last few years, we have been focused very heavily on experience management from multiple perspectives. We've got psychology, we hire psychology professors, PhDs in psychology. We have very heavy emphasis on data science and statistics and revenue management and obviously marketing. So I am interested to learn your views since you are coming from a design perspective. How does design transcend focusing primarily on physical space to designing experiences and human interactions within these spaces?

Steven: Well, I think as a traveler myself, how many touch points do I have when I arrive on a property and throughout my stay? How many times do I interact with someone on the property? It starts actually before you even arrive. I think managing the experience begins when you book your travel online. And I use apps. I use all the apps. I have the Bonvoy app. I have the Hilton app. I have the Hyatt app on my phone. And it depends on how that experience is managed. A lot of times you could just book the trip, and they say thank you. But beyond that, managing that experience before you arrive, the day or two before you arrive, who's going to actually be sending me a text message or through my app and asking me is there anything we can do before you actually arrive on property? Now that translates to design. We see design as unlimited opportunity to transform the guest experience. And how can we provide the most memorable experience that a traveler's had in their life, whether it's for business or for leisure?

And thinking holistically, it's important for us to design spaces for that sense of belonging so that the traveler and the guest actually feel like they belong on that property. And so a number of factors go into managing that experience beyond operations, of the hotel. It's ensuring that the staff or the team members are taking pride in what they do, and that is actually exhibited in how they deliver the guest experience when you are on property.

Arun: You know, one of the things that I looked up was that you have done a multi-year research study called the Experience Index to identify the full suite of factors that make for a great experience. What can you talk about some of the key learnings from that research work? 

Steven: So that work we did from 2014 to 2017, so it was pre-COVID. A lot of the lessons that we learned from that research carries on through today. Much of it was involving, you know, basically dissolving demographics. We're seeing infusion of travelers, business and leisure of all ages coming into the market. And, you know, we actually had 1200 participants in that survey as a part of the research. It was a culmination of a multi-year mixed-use methods leveraging ethnographic research for that 1200-person survey to find patterns in how we interact with hotel environments. And with more than 10 years of that research in trends that really led to what we were finding related to economic recovery after the Great Recession, where the rising influences of the millennials and baby boomers and multi-generational travelers, the sharing economy, the Airbnbs, urbanization, growth of the middle class, expanding international travel markets, all of this was happening with the prominence of the lifestyle brands coming on board, making a huge difference. And so, the six key differentiators we found in that research, as I said, were dissolving demographics. There was this members-only society, private clubs were extremely important then, and then we had sharing economies.

We had the Airbnbs, we had dual brand hotels coming online to compete with that. There was a participation in this new consumption. People had more wealth, they had more money to spend. There was definitely a focus on authenticity, as we saw with brands that were coming online like Moxie or AC Hotel. How do you make a hotel or design a hotel that's more authentic to its context, the city that it's in? And then digital integration was extremely important. Even more of an influence on brand integration today, as we see. At that time, the digital integration really had an impact on design features of a hotel, elements of service, technology and smart marketing at the brands.

Arun: So, Steven, since the study was completed in 2017 and after that we had the pandemic, are those lessons still good, you find, or have you done an update on the study? What is your perspective on that?

Steven: We're finding, as in our newer research, that guests, business travelers and leisure travelers really want to stay and prefer a hotel. I think for cleanliness, where they feel safer, they're more apt to book at a hotel. I still have friends and myself who will do the renting of another property, but there is this sense of security when you're staying with one of the big brands.

Arun: Yeah, it's very interesting that Airbnb, before the pandemic, was just taking off and that was seen as a legitimate threat to hotels. And now, after the pandemic, somehow all that talk about Airbnb is just decimating hotels, has sort of fallen by the wayside. I want to just sort of go back to this study that you completed, the experience index that you completed in 2017. And that study talked about the intention for travel. And that study talked about a task, task focus, social focus, discovery, entertainment and aspiration. So are you seeing that continue post-COVID as well, those five dimensions on which people travel and the intention to travel?

Steven: Yes, yes. It's still the same. Those are all still viable today. How we design our spaces for all of those intentions is through our work with the brands. Because a lot of the brand standards have changed to accommodate what happened for COVID. But all of those trends still stay today. The intentions, everyone has a task in their mind in terms of what they want to accomplish out of their traveler. And I think being entertained is something that we all want when we're traveling. We want to feel that we've made a good choice.

Arun: So what is interesting that study also said that people don't usually just have one thing in mind. So they go for a task or a social setting, there's discovery, there's entertainment involved. So there are multiple things that, and I guess that has to then be reflected in the design. For example, in some of the newer hotels we have seen where the rooms are smaller, but the lobbies are bigger and there are interesting things happening in the lobby. So I'm assuming that's connected to the different ways in which people want to interact with the hotels.

Steven: And actually that came to play with American Airlines hospitality complex. The rooms are all the same. They are identical. They are designed to meet exactly the guest expectation while they're there. Flight attendants may be staying for two weeks. There has to be ample storage for their clothing and their amenities while they're there. They're also studying, so there has to be a place in the room to study. But for the most part, all the rooms are the same. We really want people to be in the lobbies and socializing and meeting with others. I think at any guest property, whether it's a hotel or resort, you really want to get a return on your investment in those public areas. So whatever you can do to amenities those as much as possible is going to be extremely important. And while the guest is there, they could still be in the lobby in a corner working. You just have to provide the right furnishings, the right lighting, the right ambiance for them to accomplish whatever it is they want to do. So there's a mix of things going on in these types of spaces. There's a diversification of the programming that happens in those spaces in terms of the staff that has to service those areas.

Arun: So I want to switch to technology. There's a lot of controversy, particularly in restaurants, where QR code-based services are, you know, some people are very comfortable and happy, just whip out their cell phone, get the QR code, do the order, and some traditionalists say, wow, I want someone to come and take my order. So integration of technology into every aspect of life is a reality. I mean, there is no going back from it. So what do you see as the balance between tech and touch in hospitality design?

Steven: Well, I think through the technology, what we can learn, the brands and operators can learn, is that technology and analytics have been a huge disruptor in the design industry and in hotel marketing and in operations. The value of hospitality companies increasingly relies on technology. They rely on the consumer data to capitalize on their business practices and where and how they're going to expand their market shares. So while I personally don't like doing the QR code when I go to a restaurant, it doesn't bother me when I'm in the room ordering room service. But when I'm down in the public space, in the restaurant or the bar, I want to engage with the bartender. I want to engage with the waitstaff that's actually taking my order. And I may want to ask them questions more than what is on my phone that I'm seeing in the QR code. I may want to ask them questions about what it is that's being prepared for my meal. And at the same time, I just like to engage with people. So for me, it provides an opportunity, I think, for the hotel to have a greater impression. And that impression can lead to a returned stay the next time by the guest.

Arun: So I'm just curious to know, what is your perspective on mixed use in terms of downtown development? So you have people who are staying there, who are living there, go to restaurants and inhabit that space, versus this overland on just one kind of development, which is now coming to bite them.

Steven: Well, globalization, urbanization, we can't escape it. People are moving into our cities. And to become more resilient, we need to find new ways to repurpose buildings in our cities. The vacant offices, we have a fellow, Steven Painter, in our Toronto office, for instance, who has a program we have called Blocks that we're using. It's a digital program that we can use to test fit existing buildings to see what their viability would be to convert them too residential. Resi to office also is something that could set a precedent for us to go hospitality. You know, into office space. Converting the office buildings into residential is tricky because sometimes it just doesn't work. The infrastructure of a facility doesn't work. But repurposing our downtowns and making them more resilient is extremely important. San Francisco has a problem. Well, many of our cities have a problem where we're trying to find how to do this. But as we see the demographics change and we become more broad in our urban planning, we see the creation of new urban lifestyle communities that are rich in a variety of experiences. And beyond the hospitality, I mean, it includes sports, new types of spaces, retail, education, other things. And in many of our cities, we're taking what once was a nine to five block and people would go home to the suburbs to becoming a 24-7 amenity-rich environment filled with users of all age groups, thriving in a live, work, play environment, what we call sort of the 20-minute city. You can get anywhere you want to be within 20 minutes, and you never have to leave, you never have to drive. The central business districts, I like to think of them. And I coined a phrase recently on a panel in Dallas, you know, they can become actually central social districts. And it takes a lot of investment from our cities, you know, with a focus on ESG today. That's something that we're really working on with our cities practice area and urban planning practice area. How can we create more exciting, vibrant cities? And it includes work that has to be done in cities like San Francisco.

Arun: So for a little fun, we wrap up this edition with a speed round of questions. What is one of the most memorable or coolest experiences you've had recently?

Steven: I just got back from a trip to Europe. First big trip after COVID. First time to take 10 days off of work in a long time. I've been very busy. So I look forward to this. I planned it late last year. Did Paris for four days, Edinburgh for four days. I'd never been to Scotland. And then returned back to the States through London for a few days. And I found Edinburgh to be a very exciting city. I don't know if you've ever been there before.

Arun: Not yet, but I will.

Steven: Oh, now you will. And there are many historic sites. The castle obviously is one of them. But filled with Scottish culture and traditions. I actually hiked one day. I think I went nine miles walking around the city. It's an incredible city for walking. And I hiked up to a place called Arthur's Seat, which is actually an ancient volcano at the peak of a group of hills in Edinburgh. And it actually forms what's called Holyrood Park. And Robert Louis Stevenson said that it is a hill for magnitude, a mountain in virtue of its bold design.

Arun: Since you're an architect, I'm sure you keep an eye on buildings around the world. Is there a building or a place that you always wanted to explore, but haven't yet?

Steven: Yeah, I've always wanted to go to Prague, Cologne and maybe Dublin, Ireland. All are great cities with an incredible amount of history and architecture and also access outside those cities to the countryside. In Europe, everything is accessible by trains, so within two to three hours you can be in another location with having a totally different experience.

Arun: So I can see another trip shaping up in 2024, a 10-day trip to Dublin, Prague, Cologne. If you could go 100 years forward or back in time for 24 hours, would you choose to go to the past or the future?

Steven: I have to go to the future. I'd like to see what all the work that I did meant. Did it have meaning? Someday. We were at a management committee meeting recently at Gensler, and part of my task was to look at the future and our cities. And I was reading an Oxford Economics report that Dallas, where I am now, is a city that's seeing a lot of migration from the East Coast and the West Coast. We're seeing a lot of migration into the Sunbelt, obviously. Our city is supposed to be around 7.8, almost 8 million people now in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex. By the year 2100, it's supposed to be 33.9 million. I'm really thinking about what the next five years is going to be and what's the next 10 years going to be. As you see these communities sprawl like this, we don't have a choice. We think of everything we're talking about, ESG and climate change and economic volatility, all of that, but we have to answer to what's happening with migration and globalization and urbanization of our cities, as well as climate change. So I have to go to the future, and I want to see what we did about all the crisis multipliers that we're dealing with right now.

Arun: If you could meet any renowned architect who ever lived, who would that be?

Steven: I think Frank Lloyd Wright. He's had an influence on me in my career. He was faced with a number of challenges himself in his life, his own personal crises. But I've been fortunate to work on some of his properties, including the Arizona Biltmore Hotel, which I helped Hilton, the brand, convert it to a Walder Pastoria many years ago when I was practicing with Gensler in Los Angeles. And his attention to details is something that I think we do very well. He was, as I said, faced with a lot of challenges. A lot of his properties have withstood the test of time. And I would love to meet him and understand his design philosophy and what drove him to do the work that he did.

Arun: Yeah, he was an amazing architect. I've seen one of the homes he developed in Pennsylvania where there's a stream of water going through the house, so it was just incredible. Thank you, Steven.

It was a pleasure to talk with you today. So folks, here is an architect who is interested in the social aspect, the cultural aspect, the literary aspect of our times and lives, and that's how he designs his buildings. Thank you for listening today to our Distinguished podcast.

Special thanks to the team who produced this podcast, Professor Makrand Modi, Mara Littman, Andy Hallock, and the entire team at Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. To keep up with Distinguished podcasts, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also learn more about our undergraduate and graduate programs at Boston University School of Hospitality Administration by visiting bu.edu/hospitality. Thank you.