Leadership Series: Dondra Ritzenthaler Embarks on a New Leadership Role

Recognized for her leadership, Dondra Ritzenthaler now sets sail toward a new horizon, taking the helm as Chief Executive Officer of Azamara Cruises, the award-winning, luxury cruise line based in Miami, Florida. 

Dondra recently spent time at BU School of Hospitality as the Howard Johnson Executive in Residence, inspiring students and faculty with her passion for learning and mentorship. Dondra shares her outlook on leadership and professional development and the excitement of moving from an executive leadership role to becoming a CEO for the first time in her career.

For those who remember the hit show in the 1970s and 1980s, "Love Boat," you will be pleased to know that we couldn't resist asking Dondra which character she liked the most! (You probably can guess who it is, even before you listen to this podcast!)

The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration.

Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Director of Corporate and Public Relations
Sound Engineer and Editor: Andrew Hallock
Graphic Design: Rachel Hamlin, Marketing Manager

Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0

Transcript

Arun: After an illustrious 40-year career in the travel industry, what's the next adventure for executive Dondra Ritzenthaler. Recognized for her leadership at Celebrity Cruises, Dondra now sets sail towards a new horizon, taking the helm as Chief Executive Officer of Azamara Cruises, the award-winning luxury cruise line based in Miami, Florida. Dondra joins us as the Howard Johnson Executive in Residence at BU School of Hospitality Administration during her time between roles to refuel her passion for learning and mentorship. In this special episode of our leadership series, Dondra shares her inspiring vision of leadership. I'm Arun Upneja, Dean of Boston University School of Hospitality Administration, and Dondra joins us in our Boston studio the day before our Hospitality Leadership Summit for an engaging discussion. Welcome, Dondra, to the Distinguished podcast. 

Dondra: Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. 

Arun: You've had a year to recharge since announcing your departure from Celebrity Cruises after a 20-year tenure. So what has it been like to change your focus and likely your pace? What were some of your takeaways during this time of reflection or perhaps reprieve? 

Dondra: Well, it's been a little bit of everything. First of all, it's been a great opportunity to recharge and reassess. And I have been able to do that. But honestly, I've also really missed the energy and the action of being in a work environment every day. And people often say, I can't believe that you're saying that, but it's actually true. I have taken the opportunity to learn Spanish. I have actually gotten my scuba diving certificate because my family had done that and I hadn't. And honestly, it's given me time to think about what kind of leader do I want to be? What kind of culture do I want to make sure that I create now being given the opportunity to actually be a first time CEO? So while it has been almost a year and humbly and honestly, I've cleaned out everything in my home, it has given me the opportunity to reflect and to really think about what kind of leader I want to be when I have the opportunity to start. 

Arun: Right. Very few people get that opportunity. And I've spoken to many people who step down. And, you know, many of them say, when I'm in the office, I've got emails, I've got people walking into my office all the time. And then suddenly it's like a cliff. There's nothing, no emails, no people walking in. Nobody wants to help. Nobody inviting you. So it's a hard transition at the beginning, right? 

Dondra: I think the beginning is the hardest, right? Because it is a just like a light switch on and off, right? And then after a couple of months, you actually start to love it. And you just think this is the best thing ever. And then a few months more go by and you actually start to miss it. So you do see yourself kind of going through an evolution. And for me, I think it's because at a certain point I knew that I was coming back. And so you mentally start to get your mind ready. And now I'm so close to beginning because I start May 13th. And so I'm on the countdown now.  

Arun: Wow, what an interesting time. So you are embarking on a new chapter in your career as CEO of Cruise Line. This is the first time you are in this year role, as you mentioned. How did this opportunity come about? And what is most exciting about this opportunity? 

Dondra: So first of all, I'm so humbled and honored to have this opportunity because not everybody is fortunate enough to have an opportunity like the one I've been given. When I very first decided to, at the time, retire, I really thought that I was done. And then when this opportunity came up, I just couldn't turn it down because being blessed enough to be the CEO of a company is just something I've always wanted to do so I could create the atmosphere I wanted. And honestly, I think the reason that it did come about is that one of the people that are on the board of the company that I'm working for, I used to work for him. And I think in life, many, many times it happens like that because he knows what I'm like to partner with. He knows what my work ethic is. And if I am, that I was capable and am capable of leading a team to really great success. And really, that's the reason I was given this opportunity is because I worked for him and I worked very hard for him and got results. And I think in life, it's usually about that. There's usually somebody that you know that you've proven your worth to that then gets in a position to where they help you. And that's also why I want to do the things that we're doing today, because I would like to pay it forward the way that people that mentored me along the way did for me. And so that's one of the reasons I wanted to do this. And I really do believe that that's the reason that I am given this opportunity to make a difference for Azamara Cruises. 

Arun: You know, Dondra, many times people are working in organizations and they look at their leader and say, you know, I wouldn't do this that way. I wouldn't do that way. Or if I was a leader, I would do this way. Sometimes you have role models. Sometimes you have amazing leaders and you say, you know, I want to emulate that. So what are some of those thoughts in your mind when you took on this role? 

Dondra: You know, it's funny because you learn from people that you watch that you want to emulate, and you also learn from the things that you don't want to emulate, right? If I'm being completely transparent, which I know you want me to be, throughout my 40 years of being in business, I have seen extraordinary leaders and I've seen leaders that I would go, I wouldn't do that. And what I'm going to do is take all the things that I learned and I'm going to wrap them up into my leadership style and create the culture that I think will get extraordinary results. Because my leadership style is people first. You know, I want people to know that I value them. I want people to know that I care about them as people. And I want to be in an atmosphere where we're all really driven, but side by side, to hit that finish line, you know, whether it be EBITDA or whatever the results are. And I think learning from the people that I've had in my past, I think are going to set me up. You know, I'm going to give you an example, one of my mentors years ago said, Dondra, don't make the mistake that a lot of people make. And that is when you hire people, don't surround yourself with people that are just like you, because that's a comfort zone. And people will absolutely do that. He said, what I want you to think about and what I'd like to see you do is to surround yourself with people that are really, really good at the things that you either aren't as good at or you don't like. Surround yourself with people that are really good at those things and then listen to them. And that type of leadership and that type of mentorship I think has been really helpful for me and my journey to get to where I am today. 

Arun: So then let me follow up on that. So how do you think a CEO can influence a positive work culture or the work culture that you want to bring in? Particularly in a company where it's a well established company, it has been operating for many years and there is obviously senior leadership in place and middle management and everyone is in place. So how do you think a new CEO coming in is going to be able to influence and create a positive work culture or the work culture that reflects your style? 

Dondra: It's a terrific question and I think first and foremost, it's listening. It's such a simple skill, but to come in and really listen. I really want to take 90 days to listen to the team, learn from what they're telling me, assess numbers and data and really start to develop what I think is not only the right culture, the right strategy, do we need to modify the strategy from the team that's in place. But it really boils down to showing people that you respect and value them, listen to them, and then very, very, very much work with them as a team. You know, the best leader and the best teams are very difficult, if you were coming in and looking at a team, to know who the leader is. And that to me is what I believe I can influence the team by really, really walking the walk of being that type of leader. 

Arun: So, in terms of, a few minutes ago you mentioned, use the word mentors and mentorship. So, you worked with many leaders. Can you talk about your mentors and what did you learn from this person? Perhaps if you even want, you could name someone. 

Dondra: Sure. So, I've had several mentors in my career or really even go back. And this might sound corny to somebody who's listening, but my first mentor was my mom, which I know is so silly, but it's true. She really taught me competitiveness and collaboration just as a little child, right? And then as I, you know, went through high school and then college and then really got into the work world, you know, Jack Williams was the mentor that I mentioned in the earlier question, and I really owe a lot to him. And then when I got to Royal Caribbean Group, which was part of the celebrity organization, I had Richard Fain, who was the chairman of the board, who I think was really one of the most terrific leaders I've ever had the privilege of working for. And then Dan Hanrahan, who was my president when I was senior vice president running global sales, is the gentleman who is now on the chairman of the board and that's the reason I got to come. But every single one of the three of those gentlemen, I think the reason that they were such good mentors to me is that they never tried to put me in this box, right? Because oftentimes you see CEOs and you think that's what a CEO is supposed to sound like or look like or act like. And honestly, I have never been like that. I've always been a little bit, I guess, maybe unconventional. And I'm not really super structured to where everything has to be a certain way. I listen to people, and I pivot and I learn from them and then I leverage that. And I think those mentors were so good to me because they allowed me to be who I am that it's actually led me to the success that I've had to be where I am today. So to me, what that says is that if you will be who you are and not try to fit into a box, I think you'll be more successful, especially if you have people in your life like the people I mentioned, that take that and reward you with it by continuing to give you more and teaching you more and then letting you lead the way you want to. 

Arun: And you know, I felt that too when I had my first meeting with you. I did not see that, you know, for many CEOs you talk to, and I talk to so many of them, there is like a wall, there is, you know, a glass wall that I am seeing them, but I'm not truly seeing them. But with you, there was instant, you know, I gelled, and I said, okay, I really like this lady. So I'm so happy that she's taking on this role and so happy for the company that she's going to and privileged to know you. So I was very, I enjoyed talking to you. So you had a long career in sales and marketing. And to some extent, I think sales and marketing is key to the success of any cruise lines, because, you know, you need to be able to fill the ships, so to speak. So motivation, drive and optimism are some of the characteristics that you need to succeed in sales and marketing. So obviously you'll bring all of those. And so what are some of the qualities that you're going to bring to this role? And you can add or subtract anything you like. And how do you think that will apply to your job as a CEO? 

Dondra: So you're exactly right. You know, when you're in the sales and marketing side of a cruise line, you do have to, first of all, you have to have incredible relationships. So very much a relationship business. Secondly, you do have to have incredibly intense drive to get results. I mean, really, really. But you also then have to listen and you have to be willing to pivot because we all know the last several years have been kind of crazy and I'm sure the next several will have twists and turns as well. But I think moving now into a CEO role is I don't have to be a functional expert of one particular area like sales and marketing. The team that is there, I know them, I haven't been able to work with them yet, but I really know them and they're terrific. So I'm very lucky that I've already got a team when I do get to start that's just on fire, just doing everything right, just motivating their employees, wrapping their arms around the customers, and I think they're doing things right. What I want to do is now pull myself out of that and become the leader and make sure that we've got the right strategy in place and then allow them the autonomy and the empowerment to actually then go execute on that strategy. And I will be there leading and making sure that if we do have to change or if we get off course, I will certainly be there to be a part of the team. But I really look forward to now creating the strategy with them, executing with them, and just leading the organization into that next level of direction that we're going to go as a team. 

Arun: Is it going to be hard for you when you start functioning as a CEO to look much more in depth and detail at the sales function, the marketing function, and try to provide them with more guidance than the ops team or some other team? Do they have to look at their backs to say, okay, she's watching, this is her area, this is her area of expertise? 

Dondra: You know, I don't think I'm going to have a hard time with that. You know, sales and marketing come naturally to me because I've been doing it for so many years. But I also really want to be disciplined, to not give into the temptation of going there and giving more than I should because it's a comfort zone. I really want to pause, take a step back, think about the brand as an entire brand, not pieces of it, and make sure that I give leadership and guidance to all of them. And frankly, I think I'm going to spend more time with the finance and the hotel operations and the food and beverage and the marine side because that's the side that I don't know as well, and let the people that are really doing a terrific job keep on doing a terrific job. And then if they do ask me, definitely I'll give them my feedback.  

Arun: So, if whenever we put this up, and I'm sure they'll be happy to listen to what you just said, one of the things we try to, you've been in such senior positions all your life and sometimes work can be all consuming, and you take the work home and at night and in the morning for breakfast. So, have you managed a good work-life balance? And this is more for the students who are coming in. How do you manage to find a balance in your career? 

Dondra: So, I'm so glad that you asked me that question, because I hope that the students really hear what I'm going to say. Because I don't think for years I had a good life balance, and I regret that. You know, I was so driven to go from being a manager, to a director, to a vice president, to a senior vice president. And I think that along the way, I gave up and missed some things with my family that I really wish I hadn't have done. So, the advice that I give to people now, students or people that are, you know, been with the company for 10 years and really hungry to get that next job is be driven, be motivated, work hard and make sure that your immediate leader or the leader of the organization or even the leader of the brand values you. But find that life balance. If you have a child that is going to their, you know, kindergarten graduation, don't miss it. Because there's so many things that I wish I hadn't have missed. And so, that's a big pay it forward piece that I really want to share with people. Because had I missed that presentation at work and gone to that recital or to that, you know, big soccer match or whatever, I still would have been able to be successful enough to become the CEO one day. But I missed one of those soccer games or graduation and I never got that back. So I think life balance is really important. Now, on the flip side, you also can't go too far the other way. You have to create an image in your company that people see you as integrity first, right? Because those are the table stakes. But then also, we'll take on extra work. We'll, you know, drive for results, is a good teammate. We'll work collaboratively with other people. And when you do those things, you become valuable. So when you want to go to that graduation or that ceremony or whatever, they don't care that you do that. So there really is a nice balance, but you got to strike it. And I think every single company and every single executive and every single employee, it's different. But get after it and don't just go one way or the other without a strategy. 

Arun: That is so wonderful. And I hope that everyone listening imbibes the essence of what you said. And to some extent, I think there is this consensus in the society now that work-life balance is very important. Gone are those days when I know when I started my career at the age of 19, I was working 12 to 14 hours a day, 6 to 7 days a week. That time it was almost required that you did that, but now I think there is a broader understanding that that's not the best thing to do. 

Dondra: Well, you know why I think it is? I think we're getting smarter, right? Because there's this thing that says work smarter, not harder. And I think you and I grew up in the era where it was just work harder. And I think we have tools now that we didn't have back then, you know, with phones, with technology, with, you know, camaraderie with other people. I even have relationships with people that work in other types of hospitality, whether it's hotels or all-inclusives or even other cruise lines, that actually make us smarter. And so that's why I think now it is better. You know, my son is 24 and working, and he does this better than I do. And so I said, listen, I love your life balance. I really love it. You know, give it all you got. Do what you need to do. And then exhale and go outside and run or get on the Peloton or do the things that we do to help us stay healthier because then we will actually be healthier along the way. Instead of at 50, you know, now all of a sudden we're breaking down or 60, you know, because we have to have a new knee or this or that because we maybe pushed it a little bit too hard. 

Arun: So one other question that I've been wanting to ask you is, so we had invited as executive in residence a couple of years ago, Lisa Lutoff-Burlow, and she's coming in as the Convocation Speaker. And you worked with Lisa. So do you have any perspective on how did you enjoy working with her? 

Dondra: So I really love the fact that Lisa is going to be your speaker because I think the audience is going to absolutely love her. And yeah, I've had the privilege of, it's an interesting story because I had the privilege of working side by side with Lisa. So she ran hotel operations and I ran sales. And we were peers. And then she got promoted to the President and CEO. And I will never forget this day because I literally went into her and I said, first of all, I'm so proud of you and congratulations. And second of all, from this day forward, you can win every argument that we ever had. Because before, sometimes hotel and sales have to work through things, right? And I'll never forget that we had that conversation and she was so sweet and she goes, actually, no, I don't have to win every argument just because now I'm the President and you're running sales. And I thought that was really amazing that she would say that. And that's sort of a reflection on the type of leader that Lisa is. And she just wrote this beautiful book called Making Waves. And I love the name of the book because she actually did make waves. She was the first ever female President and CEO of our company, that Royal Caribbean Group Company. And I was so proud that she accomplished that. And she had things to prove because people didn't think she could do it. And I understand that because I think I also have something to prove. And I'm going to absolutely lean on her and ask her questions and collaborate with her to make sure that I'm as successful in my tenure as CEO and as Azamara as she was with Celebrity Cruises. And so I really cherish my friendship and my working relationship with Lisa Lutoff-Perlo.  

Arun: She's a trailblazer in many ways. She appointed the first female captain as well. I'm sure that did that cause any controversy in the company at that time or was it smooth sailing for her? 

Dondra: No, it was actually smooth sailing because, you know, in every business that doesn't have enough balance, whether it be ethnicity or age or, you know, you always look for balance, right? Because I think when you get that nice balance, that's when things work the best. And we did not have enough women on the bridge in any cruise line. And so she was a trailblazer to bring in Captain Kate. And to be honest, Captain Kate has been a trailblazer herself. And I think that's the reason that so many more women are really entering into the maritime industry, very similar to like Reshma, who helped the coding world where it was dominated by men. And I want all of these jobs, whether it's in the hospitality industry or wherever, to have a nice balance and a nice mix. Because I think when you get that diversity, I think things work really, really well. 

Arun: So I'm going to ask you this question about the future strategy of Azamara, and you don't have to answer it if it's a proprietary, but it has been operating with four ships for quite some time, and that obviously presents some logistical challenges in covering the world the way you have your policy of covering in countries intensively. Do you have plans to expand? 

Dondra: I sure want to. You know, not starting until May, I can't really get in and see is the strategy working the way it should be. You know, what revenues are we making in what parts of the world? Because obviously, you know, we're a for-profit company, and so we want to go in and we want to put our ships in the places that we believe the customer wants to go, that we also think will make us profitable, right? But I can tell you for sure that if we could grow, we would do things like Alaska. We would do things, you know, like some of the places in Asia or more down in Australia to where we could do Australia and then New Zealand instead of trying to do both. And so any time that you can grow, it gives you the opportunity to diversify. And when you can diversify, in many cases, that's when you become more profitable. So I have a desire without starting, and when I start and I can really get in there, my guess is that desire will be even stronger. 

Arun: Fantastic. Look forward to amazing growth at Azamara. 

Dondra: Thank you. 

Arun: Okay, so at the end, for a little fun, we have a quick round of questions. And you've been in cruise business and you travel a lot. So what's your favorite activity that helps you unplug from work, stops you from seeing the phone for emails, or texts, or team messages? What do you do? 

Dondra: Well, for me, that's an easy one because it's under the ocean, right? Or under the water. And so I really love snorkeling and then scuba diving because I just think it's fascinating that there's a whole other world that we don't see, right, because it's under the water. And when I get down there, it's one of those emotional and really powerful moments because it's just me and these beautiful ocean life that I just get super motivated by. And so I have no choice but to put my phone down because we don't want to mess them up down there. 

Arun: So you don't take it with you? 

Dondra: I do not take it. 

Arun: You don't check your messages, do you? Okay. We seem to take our phones everywhere. 

Dondra: We do. It's really funny. I actually said the other day that if I had a choice of losing my purse or my phone, I would rather lose my purse. Is that crazy? That's absolutely crazy, right? So we are so addicted. But I got to tell you, my son also just deleted TikTok because he realized that he was spending too many hours on it. So I appreciate that, right? So I do think we all have to kind of keep ourselves in check with how much time are we doing that versus giving back, making somebody else's life better, reading a book instead of being on some of these things. And I do think we have to hold ourselves accountable to sometimes just put that down. And here's an amazing thing. Put that down and just talk to one another. What a concept. 

Arun: My youngest son never allowed me to have TikTok. I know it's crazy, but he said, Dad, you cannot have TikTok on your phone. And he used a word which to some extent I understand now, it's called doom scrolling. 

Dondra: Yeah, exactly. 

Arun: Yeah, doom scrolling. You've had a year since leaving your position with Celebrity Cruise Lines. I feel it's safe to assume that you've had time to watch TV. So what shows have you watched and what do you recommend? 

Dondra: So I have and in fact I never watched streaming until the COVID thing happened and I started watching it and now I got to tell you I watched Succession and it was fantastic. I really loved it. And then Suits, which really wasn't even a new show. It really came out years ago, but it came out streaming and I think those two have been my favorite so far. 

Arun: Great shows. Did you ever watch Lovebot as a kid? who was your favorite character? 

Dondra: Who knows? Maybe that's why I went into the cruise business. I really did love the show. And my favorite character was Julie McCoy, because she was the cruise director. She was the person who made everybody feel welcome and did all of the kind hospitality, right? And that's what we're talking about today. But she was my favorite, but I really loved the show. And Captain Stubing, believe it or not, just a couple years ago, actually came and was a guest on one of our competitor ships. And people were lining up out the door to just go and talk to him and get his autograph. So even after all these years, the love boat is still popular. 

Arun: Still popular. If you could invite up to four people living or deceased on a cruise, who would they be and why? 

Dondra: Oh, I love this question. So the very first person that I would invite is my mentor, because I told you about him earlier and unfortunately he's passed. And there's so many things I'd like to ask him before I start this job. So he would definitely be one. The second one is actually my grandmother. And those are the two personal ones just because, you know, if I'm being honest, it's a way for me to actually get to talk to her again as well. But then I would also like to talk to somebody that is like an Abraham Lincoln. And I know that sounds crazy, but, you know, like goes way, way back. And what can I learn from him and how he could teach me about camaraderie and working together and things that he might do differently if, you know, if he had the chance. And then my fourth person, when I was thinking about this question, my fourth person would actually probably be Princess Diana. And the reason for that is because I think she really created the ability to make people love her. And while there could have been some things, drama or whatever, I think she possessed this hospitality gene that if I could sit and just talk to her and learn from her, I think it would make me a better leader. It would make me a better CEO, because I think listening to her would be really motivating. 

Arun: She was a transformative figure. I still remember when she came to New York and she hugged those aides. I mean, that was when it was at the height of, you know... 

Dondra: When people were afraid to do that. 

Arun: Yes, exactly. 

Dondra: But she just decided that she wasn't. And I really like it when people lead out loud like that. You know, I really, really do. Those are the type of people that I aspire to be like. 

Arun: What's your least favorite word or expression? 

Dondra: I can't do it.

Arun: And your favorite word or phrase? 

Dondra: Can do it, yes. I 100% can do it. Because I really believe if you think either one of those things, that you are truly right. Right? But for me, I have a mentality in my life that I will absolutely never give up. Never. I drive my kids, my husband, sometimes the people that I work with crazy, but I absolutely will never give up if I want something. I'm going to keep on going until I figure out how to get it. 

Arun: Dondra, it has been exciting to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming to our school as executive in residence and spending time at the school talking to the students, doing this podcast and spending the day tomorrow as well. I wish you all the best in your soon-to-be, your next phase in your career as the CEO and thanks for coming. 

Dondra: It has been my pleasure. And I'm really honored and humbled that you guys invited me. And I cannot wait to reach that summit tomorrow, and then I cannot wait to maybe come back after I've been doing this CEO thing for a year or so and tell you what's different than what I thought. But thank you very much for having me. 

Arun: You're welcome. And thank you all for listening today to our Distinguished podcast. If you like what you're hearing, be sure to follow up and give us a five-star rating. If you want to join the conversation and share your thoughts and suggestions, email me at shadean@bu.edu. Special thanks to the team who produced this podcast, Mara Littman, Andy Hallock and the entire team at BU School of Hospitality Administration. To keep up with Distinguished podcast, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also learn more about our undergraduate and graduate programs at BU School of Hospitality by visiting bu.edu/hospitality. Have a wonderful day and thank you for listening.