From Struggle to Stakeholder: A Story of Resilience

In this episode of OK State of Mind, a Family & Children’s Services podcast, we share an extraordinary story of perseverance, adaptation, and giving back. Sean MacLeod, an engineer at a Tulsa-based energy company and a Young Professionals Advisory Council (YPAC) board member, joins Adam Andreassen, CEO of Family & Children’s Services, and Tom Taylor, Chief Development Officer of Family & Children’s Services, to discuss the power of resilience and the role of community support in transforming lives.

Sean shares his deeply personal journey—growing up in a cycle of instability, facing abuse and neglect, and navigating the foster care system. Through his experiences, Sean discovered the importance of environmental support in shaping personal growth and success. Now, he is dedicated to mentoring young people, volunteering, and advocating for community programs that provide the same opportunities he wishes his family had access to—programs like Women in Recovery and Family & Children’s Services’ trauma and child abuse prevention services.

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Transcript

Sean MacLeod: [00:00:00] I think if some of these programs were used by my family back in the day, it would have been a different outcome. I think my mom would have still been here. It was really just a continual cycle of doing the things you shouldn't be doing, getting picked up by police, getting out and going back into it.

Sean MacLeod: She never really had. a system or a program or community to be able to educate her to help her mental state to understand she had her own traumatic history as well. 

Chris Posey: In her memoir, Dust Tracks on a Road, author Zora Neale Hurston writes, Mama exhorted her children at every opportunity to jump at the sun.

Chris Posey: We might not land on the sun, but at least we would get off the ground. Childhood challenges can sometimes make it tough to jump at the sun. But often, those challenges create resilience and broaden perspective. Today's guest on OK State of Mind endured many significant challenges during his childhood.

Chris Posey: And it was through these challenges that Sean MacLeod learned to jump with the [00:01:00] sun. Now, an engineer at a Tulsa based energy company and a board member for a local young professionals organization, Sean wants to take what he's learned from his past So, Sean, Adam, Tom, thanks for being here today. Tom, can you just start off by telling us a little bit about how you and Sean came to know each other?

Tom Taylor: Yes, of course. So, it was one of our Family and Children's Services, what we call Friends of FCS luncheons, and it's where we feature some of our different programs. One of our 72 programs that we have, and Sean was one of the attendees and found out about our Young Professional Advisory Council, or what we nicknamed as YPAC.

Chris Posey: Oh, okay. And 

Tom Taylor: you signed up to volunteer for our Child Abuse and Trauma Services YPAC holiday party. When was 

Adam Andreassen: that? How long ago? 

Tom Taylor: Oh, what was that, December? 

Sean MacLeod: December, yeah. About a month and a half ago, something like that. I actually feel like I've met you two at WEIR, actually, when you very first started.

Sean MacLeod: How long have you been [00:02:00] on now? 

Adam Andreassen: WEIR is Women in Recovery. 

Sean MacLeod: That 

Tom Taylor: is 

Sean MacLeod: correct, yeah. Okay. So, I'm starting my ninth year at Family and Children's Services. Oh, okay, so maybe not. But you have a connection to WEIR. That's right. Yeah, so I've got a connection. It's kind of close to me. So I grew up in a little bit of the system.

Sean MacLeod: My mom passed away years ago. And I feel like if weir was around at the time, or at least we knew about it, then maybe it could have changed some things. 

Adam Andreassen: So Sean, I met you in December. It was this really cool holiday party for, you know, kiddos who maybe don't have another means of getting a gift, having fun, having a party, stuff like that.

Adam Andreassen: Is that, did I get that about right? Because I went in and I was sort of in awe myself of just all the different things and I found you at a game where you were kind of helping to monitor the kids and help them with the game. And in the middle of that game, you're just also telling me some of your story and how you came to be volunteering.

Adam Andreassen: And you started to tie it in, just a second ago you started to get into the story of your backstory and your experiences in the system and [00:03:00] what that sort of pushed you into and then the value you find for things now. It was a two minute thing, but whatever it is you shared made me think I just really want you to tell that story again so we can get in there.

Adam Andreassen: And so I just want to throw to you for a story time at this point and then we'll jump in from there. 

Sean MacLeod: Yeah, so I'm passionate about volunteering and it is because of my past. I've come from very little, from some trauma in several different areas and feel like I've done well enough that I want to let other people know.

Sean MacLeod: From where I've come that you don't have to be that person where your family's trajectory was from your parents, family, any siblings that you can overcome that. A lot of that is really just exposure. I feel like so from my past going way back. About when I was two, my parents split. My father moved to Colorado.

Sean MacLeod: My mom was in Oklahoma. So I lived around here for a little while. When I lived here, we were in the system. You know, DHS knocking on the door every day, removed from the home for a period of time, come back in the home. [00:04:00] So eventually moved to Colorado with my dad. My mom was an alcoholic and a drug addict.

Sean MacLeod: Had a lot of complications there that she just wasn't really able to watch two young kids all the time. So that's kind of why we're in the system. Eventually moved to Colorado with our dad. I lived there growing up in Colorado until, until everything really started happening about 10, 12, 13 years old. Uh, my dad was also an alcoholic, but became abusive the further and further he got into that.

Sean MacLeod: And as I lived with him, when I was about 10, 11 years old, things got really bad. And I needed to kind of remove myself from the situation. Move back to Oklahoma with my mom at the time and my mom was still in the same stuff She had always been still very heavily in a drug addict alcohol Just she liked to have a good time as she says it and when I lived with her there My sister stayed with my dad.

Sean MacLeod: I stayed with my mom And I never really saw her much. I lived with her for a year, and I saw her every two, maybe three weeks. So, uh, you know. So you're [00:05:00] basically living alone. I'm living alone. That's right. As a ten year old. As a ten year old, yeah. So, my grandfather would come by every now and again. He'd leave me cash.

Sean MacLeod: And, you know, I had strict instruction from my mother not to tell anybody, obviously, that I'm living by myself, otherwise. I'd be back in the system as I was a kid. So he would sometimes leave cash because he didn't know, he was just thinking money for the family. Let me know when your mom gets home type of situation.

Sean MacLeod: And luckily I had a neighbor that really took care of me. They kind of took me in and, uh, was able to go into their apartment quite a bit. 

Adam Andreassen: Were you, I mean, just out of curiosity, when you're 10 living that life, are you thinking, wow, this is Was it really unusual? Were you really distressed? Was it, this is kind of cool, I'm on my own?

Adam Andreassen: What was the range of just kind of reflections at the time? 

Sean MacLeod: You know, I don't really think I had any of those moments of this was odd or strange. I think at this point I had such a weird life anyway. It was somewhat of a relief. You know, from growing up as a kid and being fairly, uh, abandoned in a way.

Sean MacLeod: Cause my mother, you know, she'd be in and out of town and babysitters. [00:06:00] To an abusive father growing up in Colorado. It was kind of a relief, you know, did I see it as normal? Not really, but I wasn't stressed out by it. 

Adam Andreassen: Because you got out of abuse to neglect, and neglect was actually an upgrade. Neglect 

Sean MacLeod: was way better, because then I kinda, I had control of what I did, and not who did it to me.

Sean MacLeod: So it was kind of nice. I was able to, to govern myself. So from there, after about a year, my mom decided this isn't going to work for any of us. You know, she felt, I don't know why, but she felt restricted from what she was doing. Uh, couldn't leave the house again. Thinking back, it's kind of strange. I saw her every couple of weeks.

Sean MacLeod: But she was just limited on what she could do, she felt like, and then she knew it wasn't a good situation for me either. So I ended up moving around for a period of time to several different family members. I actually moved back in with my dad for a little bit. In Colorado. In Colorado, yeah. And then the abuse was worse than it had ever been.

Sean MacLeod: I ran away from home at one point, went and lived with a friend for just a very short period. Went [00:07:00] to New Mexico with my grandparents, lived there for a period of time, which was a completely different upbringing. So my grandparents is on my dad's side. We're very wealthy. They retired in their late forties.

Sean MacLeod: Our business owners. So going from, you know, really low end, low income poverty and raising myself to being with grandparents who were home full time. Had all the time in the world to dedicate to me and had money. I kind of had to shift who I was a little bit, but that was a challenge for me because trying to shift a mindset from survival every day at 10, 11 years old to someone infinitely there and in your life was a bit of a challenge for me.

Sean MacLeod: So that's where a lot of my anger and aggression probably came out as a young adult because they're always there. They're in my business. I was used to being by myself. I didn't want to interact with anybody. I just wanted to be who I was. They were obviously trying to be more nurturing. So live with them for a little bit there, but then they like to travel a lot.

Sean MacLeod: So they [00:08:00] do a lot of fishing trips and Back to the same story as I was, I was kind of constricting them a little bit on what they wanted to do, and their grandparents, you know, they don't want to have full time someone live with them, so I moved back in with my dad, and that's when things got really bad as far as the abuse.

Sean MacLeod: So I stayed there for about another year, and actually wasn't even supposed to move away, so my mom passed away in the middle there, when I was in New Mexico slash Colorado, I was making the transition actually. And, drug overdose, so she was living with her boyfriend in an apartment complex here in Tulsa, and she did pass away there.

Sean MacLeod: You know, it wasn't as impactful as it should have been, I think, at that point, but I hadn't lived with her but one year since I was five. 

Adam Andreassen: And, frankly, by that point, your life and your survival is sort of premised on not letting these things hit you too hard, and even if you're not thinking about it.

Adam Andreassen: You're adapting to you got to let it roll off you otherwise you just crumble 

Sean MacLeod: right so you said my favorite word is adapting Adaptation there was an exercise we did you had to be vulnerable and you had to bring a [00:09:00] show and tell And my show and tell was a little action figure. His superpower was he adapts to survive.

Sean MacLeod: And so, you know, you hit him with a baseball bat, he grows, you know, like armor on it, like scales. If he falls in water, he grows gills. So, and I kind of attached to that because that's exactly what I had to do growing up is I adapted to the situation I was in. Whether it was a neglectful mother, which I didn't see, an abusive father, now wealthy grandparents, where I got made fun of at school because, you know, now I'm in a poor community with a rich set of grandparents.

Sean MacLeod: So, a lot of confusion there. So, I love that you said it. 

Adam Andreassen: And it's such a powerful image, and there's so many ways you could go with it, including why superheroes are so appealing, right? What was that superpower? How did you learn to adapt? Was it natural? How did 

Sean MacLeod: you adapt? I feel, honestly, I feel like it was natural.

Sean MacLeod: I know there was a development. Over the course of my years, but I don't really remember any moments where I thought okay I have to learn this skill. It was imposed upon me is probably the way to put that So I I'm [00:10:00] sure I had a little bit of natural ability there and then just threw out all of the different moves and living Situations that's just migrated over the years to what it is now.

Adam Andreassen: What were those external either supports resources? Whether it were systemic supports or key people there had to been some stabilizing forces that were Playing in at some point too. 

Sean MacLeod: So not really. Really? Actually. 

Adam Andreassen: Okay. 

Sean MacLeod: Yeah, I always kind of relied on myself Until a certain moment in time. I had counseling after my mom died I've always been a little bit of a rambunctious kid and When I was in counseling, it was the only time until I got older that I was talking about my dad being abusive Well, that counselor told my dad that.

Sean MacLeod: So, kind of betrayed the trust that I had and what I understood counseling to be is that it's a safe space. And you don't tell an abusive parent that your child just told someone they're being abusive. Things get much worse. So, if anything else, actually, I probably reverted backwards to where I didn't have any trust in [00:11:00] any thing, person, community.

Adam Andreassen: Why would I be vulnerable? Because it'll Punish me more. 

Sean MacLeod: Correct. That's right. And I held that for a very very long time. We get to the end of summer I'm staying with my grandmother on my mom's side and we go to call our dad to come back at the end of the summer Which I didn't want to do. He had moved, he had quit his job, and he changed his phone number And I didn't hear from him for five years after that.

Sean MacLeod: So we weren't supposed to stay. All we had was a small suitcase For a summer's worth of adventure, you know with our family here, and they never heard from him for five years. So Abandoned. Did that feel like 

Adam Andreassen: abandonment or relief? 

Sean MacLeod: 100 percent abandonment. Yeah, no matter What the living situation is and I've learned this even through mentoring kids that have been in similar spaces You still have that attachment.

Sean MacLeod: They're still my mom. They're still my dad which is why it's so tough to come out of these situations I feel is because You're still always looking up or at them, even if they're the worst of situations, you still look at them as your parent. So even though [00:12:00] I did not want to be there, and I didn't, Want to go back.

Sean MacLeod: It did absolutely feel like abandonment. 

Adam Andreassen: Yeah, and how old were you at that time? 

Sean MacLeod: So this was 13. This was the final move 13 moved in with my grandmother there I moved here to a small town Davenport, Oklahoma's population 700 people very tiny But then with a single grandmother that, for one, knew every trick out there because my mom and her, and my two aunts have done everything under the sun, so she knew every trick out there.

Sean MacLeod: But also she was just very loving, very accepting, and gave a lot of grace, which I hadn't really had. I've always come from a very stern household. Whether it was my mom, you can't go outside because she's doing things in the house people don't know about, so it was very strict there. Or my dad, who was just a very strict person in all aspects of life.

Sean MacLeod: My grandmother didn't really do that. She gave me a long leash to let me explore and understand who I was in a new situation. And at the same time, supported me through everything. So she was a support for me that [00:13:00] showed there's love out there. Unconditionally, you know, as I still got in a little bit of trouble at the beginning and it didn't matter, you know So she still took me in loved me took me to school couldn't afford I mean she made 18, 000 a year as a single grandmother working for the second Fox Nation She didn't have any money to raise a kid, but she did it anyway, so her 

Adam Andreassen: style You know, that support, was that an instant adaptation?

Adam Andreassen: You just slid right into it, or was there a process of 

Sean MacLeod: It was, because of that grace, because she gave me that leash. It wasn't immediately, like when I moved in with my grandparents, for example. They're very loving, but when they were always there, in their style, they were very locked down. They looked at me as a problem, and we need to control it and fix it.

Sean MacLeod: My grandmother didn't. She let me go still explore and still have my life without locking me up, you know, per se, not literally in the house, but, you know, without handcuffing me. So it was very comfortable because I knew I could still have my independence and still govern myself to a degree while knowing that she was there.

Sean MacLeod: So it took a little bit of time living with [00:14:00] her before I really trusted it, but it was pretty warming up front and I accepted it pretty early. 

Adam Andreassen: So at 13 ish, you're with your grandmother and is it smooth sailing from there into adulthood? No more hitches, no more bumps. Is it all good from there? What, what happens after 13?

Sean MacLeod: I will say there was a pretty immediate shift in who I was. Because I couldn't get into as much trouble. It's a town of 700 people, you know. So now I'm coming into 14, I guess, that first year. Or I was 14. And I picked up drinking. It was a small town. All the older kids hung out with the younger kids. So it was available and around.

Sean MacLeod: And that was uncharacteristic for me to get into things that I shouldn't have been, so I was drinking there at 14. But really, I think that's the only thing I can think of that there was a major moment of correction. 

Adam Andreassen: Sure, so I don't want to, like, you want to be careful when you hear someone's story that you start to assign themes or through lines that might not apply, and you can over apply something to it.

Adam Andreassen: But when I'm hearing your story, the thing that I'm sort of wrestling [00:15:00] with is, you know, there's all these ideas about how people become who they are, and I think it's real appealing to humans and to Americans to think, well, there's this real me in there, and we just unlock it. But there's this other school of thought, kind of comes from humanism, that is, our context and our surroundings matter so much that they have a huge role in determining whatever me emerges.

Adam Andreassen: And I'm kind of wondering, when I hear your story, like, at 13, You're adapting. Do you look at that and say, okay, now I'm the real me or you say, I was always the real me. I just now the context started to supply me a different set of options. Like, how do you look at your development in reverse and saying what was happening from 13 to onward versus in those years as it relates to you and your identity and I 

Sean MacLeod: think honestly, the trauma ended.

Sean MacLeod: It was a big piece of that. So it's the 

Adam Andreassen: contextual stuff, it changes. Yeah, 

Sean MacLeod: that's right. And as being one who adapts to scenarios really well, when I [00:16:00] finally came into a loving, nurturing family, I adapted that, right? I came into that versus the traumatic life I'd had before. So it was very situational. I still don't think through the high school, so while I didn't have any major, upsets or complications like it had in the past from getting in trouble.

Sean MacLeod: It was still, I would say, an adapted moment. I was still adapting to, I talked about the small town. There were two things. I had my grandmother that was there, but also the town that I was in, it was very limiting just from a resource standpoint, I guess you could say, versus if I was in Tulsa, I could find more things that could get me in trouble.

Sean MacLeod: I think both of those I was still adapting to that year, and that was the first time I really had in my life the ability to adapt to something good, right? But it still wasn't until college, I'd say, that I stopped trying to, not trying, needing to. I came into who I was and so I don't want to adapt to things in my who am I what do I want to do?

Adam Andreassen: You get to college and something shifts. What is that moment or scenarios that you're talking about? 

Sean MacLeod: Yeah, so so college even though I had [00:17:00] essentially been on my own for years even with my grandmother to some degree but a lot before I've passed before that, too, and live on my own and govern myself. You always know there's still a parent figure there that you can default to.

Sean MacLeod: You know, even when my mom wasn't there, I didn't see her for a couple weeks at a time, it's still always in my mind, well, she's, she is here, though. So, whatever that means, whether, if, if I'm doing something bad, I know I could always get in trouble by her, right? College, that goes away. And especially for me, because, you know, a lot of people go, a lot of kids go to college and they do still have that backstop of their parents being around, helping them out.

Sean MacLeod: I didn't have any of that. That went away from me. And I realized I'm finally, every single thing I do really is only on me. There is no backstop. And I think that's when I transitioned away from adapting to the situation that I'm in, to who am I and what do I want to do, what do I want to be. So it was really that mental shift of there's no one else here but me.

Adam Andreassen: In one sense, you're like, okay, getting to college and figuring out [00:18:00] what do I want to do sounds extremely normal. So do you look at that period as all these things and now here's my window? Or is it I'm now caught up to a normal developmental trajectory where? 19, 20, 21 year olds start to think, who am I and what do I want to do?

Adam Andreassen: Like how normal or abnormal was that process as compared to all the people around you? 

Sean MacLeod: I still felt actually I was a little bit different than all those around me. I don't think I caught up to them. I think I was still a bit different. Everyone else that I had seen at that point in time had either been pushed into college or to some degree, didn't know what their degree wanted to be, or there was a select few that was like, this is what I want to do, this is what I want to be, it's who I'm about.

Sean MacLeod: I was one of the few that knew what I wanted to do. And so, from day one, I was going for engineering courses. I went straight for it. So I already had a mission that I needed to go toward. And I felt like that was above everyone else. So from day one, I had something to actually work 

Adam Andreassen: toward. How are you that focused already?

Adam Andreassen: You're like, you're figuring out your identity, but then you're also like, I'm gonna be an engineer. 

Tom Taylor: [00:19:00] That drive and determination. Right. With all the different schools you must have gone to. That's amazing. 

Sean MacLeod: Well, I've always been able to Well, I mean, that's part of finding a solution every day. I use that all the time.

Sean MacLeod: So I got, I've got two kids now, seven and four, and they know if something's a problem, they say, what am I gonna say? And they say, you're going to, say, look for a solution. And, and I've always been geared toward that. So when I'm adapting to these different situations, what I realized I was doing is I'm always finding a solution, something that's gonna work for myself, but for everybody.

Sean MacLeod: So I saw that, I said, man, that's exactly what I liked. It's what I do with my whole life, is I'm always trying to find a solution to something. Not always necessarily, you know, how do I design something like an engineer would but just a mindset that you know I got a friend who's struggling with something.

Sean MacLeod: Okay. Well, what's the solution for that? How can I help them out with that? Right, and I was always really good for that So when I went to college and I and I looked at these curriculums I said, engineering is just for me. It's just naturally what I do. So I think that's why I found it so fast and then it was driven immediately toward it because I knew that I've been practicing my whole [00:20:00] life for it.

Adam Andreassen: So you said a few minutes ago in college, when I was figuring some of this stuff out, I still feel like I was behind a little bit. Was there a slingshot? Did you catch up or did it just stop being a reference point to? 

Sean MacLeod: I think the only reason I felt like I was behind is just because I was still doing it on my own versus, you know, everybody else had a little bit of support there.

Sean MacLeod: I think that'd be the only only piece of it. So I think this is all really just context for who I am now. What's built me. So. I've lived in so many different life situations, whether it be, you know, the abuse, different states, different weather patterns, different, you know, a grandparent versus a direct parent, an aunt.

Sean MacLeod: I lived actually on my own for a little bit. It's created an ability to Adapt, which I said I've always done, but also relate, and that's where I'll get into kind of why I like to volunteer and get in what I am, is Please go into that. That's a piece of that. So, [00:21:00] so college was the first time I had some of that, too.

Sean MacLeod: I worked at a, it was called the Hope Center, and it was in Edmond, and it was a reconsignment shop, and kind of. What they did was, you know, they took in clothing, and they put it out there, and there was reduced pricing, and they had some Grants where they allowed the homeless people come in. They had a certain amount of clothing that homeless could come, uh, or low income, but it was just, it was clothing they took in, they had donations.

Sean MacLeod: And that was really my first intro to. You know, the, uh, the kindness of people toward people for no reason. I was working as a, as a college job and I love supporting people and helping finding solutions, right? I always like to be the first one to say, Oh, well, hey, let's figure this out. Right. So coming out of college, I had done a little bit of volunteering, but not a whole lot because I just wanted to see what it was like, but I was, I was extremely busy as well.

Sean MacLeod: I worked two jobs trying to put myself through school. But really enjoy that so I kind of put it on a pause for a while while I got my career underway But once I really started thinking about what I want [00:22:00] in life, I started really trying to figure out Well, where do I want to go now? My whole life has been adaptations has been schooling to get to a place What what do I really want who am I was a little bit a lot of people do that in college But I was so driven on let me get this degree That that I didn't really do a whole lot of that figuring out myself I just kind of had this path and I executed a path And a big piece of that was I want to be able to help people and I've got my engineering side, my schooling, that was just who I was and what I did, but I realized I've got a very unique story that I'd like to help people understand who they can be and that they don't have to be Who they've come from, who the people tell them they should be, who the police or authorities think they will be, right, because I came from that.

Sean MacLeod: So once I decided that I want to be able to kind of share my message, because I was guarded on it for a long time. Not because [00:23:00] I thought I'd be judged necessarily, but I always say it now. I didn't want, when someone tells a certain story, You get the head tilt, you know, oh, and you kind of hear that and I hated that Because I thought maybe maybe there was there was sympathy there.

Sean MacLeod: It wasn't empathy. It was sympathy And I, and I hate it. So I didn't tell my story just for that reason. But the, the, when I started figuring myself out and what I wanted to do with it and that I could use it as, as a power to help kids is how it started actually. I've started focusing on that and putting some effort into that.

Adam Andreassen: When you realize your story was a story of empowerment and not a story of or poor you or whatever, that's when you wanted to tell your story. 

Sean MacLeod: Yes. So I, I think that's the, that's the piece is hopefully I can save some of those steps that I went through. Because they're painful. They're trauma. Actually, I always tell myself, I don't have trauma.

Sean MacLeod: I'm not traumatized. It was traumatic, but I'm not traumatized by it. So I use that [00:24:00] very cautiously, because a lot of people do say, well, you know, I was traumatized by it. And I'm not. It was traumatic, but I'm not traumatized by it. And I tell kids that too. I said, you can have trauma in your life, and it, and it not traumatize you.

Sean MacLeod: So if I can save them some of that future trauma, then absolutely, I want to try. So where I first started, it was at street school. So I found out through street school through a friend who was on the board and I decided to be a mentor to one of the kids there, just starting with one kid at the time. You know, I want to be able to impact someone, but I didn't really know how to start and they had a system for it, right?

Sean MacLeod: They've got a program street school does. So it's a great program where consistent schedule, you meet up with a kid in the class, you're paired with one and that's it. You can do whatever you want. You can bring a video game if you want, play basketball, take them to lunch, which is what I did. And organically, just through being with them, they end up opening up to you with their story, which allows me to tell, because I don't jump straight into it all the time, you know, I don't want them to [00:25:00] think that they're a project sometimes, you know, some of these kids, because I've been there, I've been a project to someone before and just started having a conversation with them and broke up into my story, which Made him open up more on his story and then he started talking about, you know, his family life and, and all the traumas that he's experienced up to life and just had a really good conversation and then it led to, okay, well, how can I help you?

Sean MacLeod: What do you need, you know, and of course it doesn't answer the question. He's a 17 year old kid. What do you need? But he wanted to go to school, but he didn't know how he got funding from the FAFSA and some other grant as well, if I remember right, but From there, it's really kind of branched. It's not just, I do have a passion for helping kids, whether it's immediately helping them or really just being someone there to talk to, because I think I'm really relatable where I've lived in most situations.

Sean MacLeod: I've had abuse. I've had neglect. I've had drugs and alcohol in my life, whether me or others. I've had all those situations, so I feel like it's really easy for people to relate to me [00:26:00] and be able to open up because there's no judgment. You know, I've lived that story before, whether some are worse, some are better, you know, it's just a piece of it.

Sean MacLeod: So it makes it really relaxing. 

Adam Andreassen: So, so much of this story and, you know, there's the things that happen and then there's our sort of themes or takeaways or whatever. I'm hearing a different story today because, you know, the therapy, the counseling, the social work, all that stuff really, really matters. But that's not the story I'm hearing today.

Adam Andreassen: What I'm hearing from you is, yes, your grandmother created an environment and showed love as much by the environment that she created for you, but that the context and the things around you that changed the removal of these bad things that were happening and a more supportive environment, literally creating those things that drove opportunity for you to just be, it seems like that's the story I'm hearing.

Adam Andreassen: It's like, my environment changed and I did okay. That's right. Yeah, it's not a story of like, well, this person, you know, is the inspiring, saved my life. [00:27:00] There are stories like that. But for you, it was, yes, your grandmother is a key figure. That's the only figure I'm hearing in the story and the rest is a story of environment and that when the environment was supportive and when those things allowed you to drive yourself in the way you wanted to, you found your way there.

Sean MacLeod: That's right. Yep, that's spot on. Yeah, I actually rebelled against, just cause the counseling thing as a child, I rebelled against a lot of that other support. 

Adam Andreassen: And I think it is such a draw, I don't want to go wildly in a different direction about systems, you know, but like family and children's, one of the things that drew me to this system is that 75 of its 100 plus years of history, it was mostly just that first part, which was charity to support and lift people as they get displaced and lost.

Adam Andreassen: And then over the last 25 or so years, We've really leaned also into that mental health side, and the mental health really matters. It's super super important, but I just love that recognition, systemically, of what I'm also hearing in your story, which is, you took root because you were always on your way to something and the environment just [00:28:00] needed to slow down enough for you to, and again, I'm not trying to assign that to you, but is that?

Adam Andreassen: No, that's true. No, I 

Sean MacLeod: agree with that. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's correct. Women in recovery, for example. I think if some of these programs were used by my family back in the day, it would have been a different outcome. I think my mom would have still been here. Whether I would have lived with her or not, I don't know.

Sean MacLeod: But I think that she definitely would have been here still today. 

Adam Andreassen: So a lot of, uh, a lot of people listening probably know what women in recovery is. But let's share for just a second and maybe, Tom, just a brief summary of what Women in Recovery is as it relates to this story and then let's, I want to get back to that.

Tom Taylor: So, as Sean mentioned, Women in Recovery is a program that started with Family and Children's Services just over 15 years ago through the generosity of the George Kaiser Family Foundation. So Mimi Trosh, one of our Chief Program Officers, helped Nationally structure this with relationships. It also has to do with justice involved, but primarily, like what you're saying, it treats the trauma to the women, and 82 83 percent of them have children.

Tom Taylor: So they have families. So exactly what you're talking about. [00:29:00] It treats the trauma, then treats the addiction. Primarily instead of alcohol, it's primarily drugs anymore in the last 15 years. And then gives them the tools in their toolbox to adjudicate up their sentences, but at the same time to give them life skills so that they don't re offend or repeat, uh, the life that they've been given.

Tom Taylor: And what you're saying is that transformational lives as they've been given those, those opportunities to be a better parent. And to kick their addiction because they've treated their trauma that they couldn't recover from. 

Adam Andreassen: And because Oklahoma is really, really high in the nation in incarceration of women, so it was a real area of focus.

Adam Andreassen: Because of the ways it sort of disrupts families. 

Tom Taylor: We were number one in the world in incarceration rates for women. In the world, not just the country. In the world, in the state of Oklahoma, yeah. And it's taken 15 years of work for several partners, so we're now number four in the United States. So we've really shrunk, the team's done amazing work.

Tom Taylor: That's kind of how Women in Recovery started, and with a vision that we needed to do something better here in Oklahoma. 

Adam Andreassen: And [00:30:00] that's the program you're saying, if my mom would have gotten intercepted by that earlier on. Your story goes very differently. 

Sean MacLeod: Correct. Yeah, so she never really had any of those programs.

Sean MacLeod: It was really the authorities. You know, she'd get in trouble, she'd get put into jail, was facing prison at one point, don't remember how she got out of it. Um, which would have been an application for WEIR, right? So, yeah, so it was really just a continual cycle of doing the things she shouldn't be doing.

Sean MacLeod: Getting picked up by police, getting out and going back into it. She never really had a system or a program or community. To be able to educate her, to help her mental state, to understand some of the traumas she came from, to be able to deal with them herself. Because she's, she had her own traumatic history as well.

Sean MacLeod: People view them differently, you know, so. My sister on one side, she views some of our traumas as a reason of why she is the way she is. I use my traumas as a way to understand where I came [00:31:00] from and how to use it to help other people. You know, so it's like, just different ways that people can look at things.

Sean MacLeod: Uh, so yeah, I definitely think that if the program was around and she had entered into it, it'd be definitely a different outcome. 

Adam Andreassen: So Chris, as you're sitting here listening and I know we've got friends in the room, What is stirring up as you're hearing the story? What are your reflections and thoughts as we're just kind of talking through this?

Chris Posey: Well, first off, I'm amazed to hear your story. You have experienced so many things, and I think that your feeling of adaptation, I think that's the message that they need to hear. As I listen to you and listen to Tom talking about we're, I mean, the concept that keeps coming to me is empowerment, and sometimes it's self empowerment, which seems to be the case.

Chris Posey: To a great extent in your life, and with WEIR, obviously, you know, that program serves to empower women. And again, I think that these are things that touch people very materially, very intimately, and I'm just blown [00:32:00] away by your story. 

Adam Andreassen: The thing that, again, keeps coming out for me is, You adapted, and there was something about you that not everybody has the same makeup as you, so there were some factors that were independent, specific to you, but the environment had to cooperate to a point.

Adam Andreassen: Like, a lot of bad things happen, but if the environment at some point doesn't stop barraging you, that story could go very differently, too. That's exactly right. There were points you could have gotten better, but there were points where if you're not at your grandma's house, Who knows how the story goes.

Adam Andreassen: And I feel like one of the takeaways I'm trying to lean into is like the societal elements of the more we can do to control and support environment and limit the extreme outlier, the traumas, the major neglect, all those things that even if they're just slightly upticking on the reduction of those bad environmental cues, people whose instinct is to survive, it's given them a chance.

Adam Andreassen: It's given them just a little bit of opportunity. Because you took your opportunity. Your [00:33:00] adaptive spirit that frankly some aspects of the story almost sounded easy the way you tell it. I know it wasn't, but your ability to adapt was affected or presupposed by at some point the environment giving you a break.

Sean MacLeod: Yeah, no, I mean, I think you're right, is if I hadn't entered into the living situation that I had, things were already trending to go a different direction, you know, as I probably wouldn't have come out of it. So like for me, I'm looking to buy a business here in Tulsa and a big piece of what I want to be able to do.

Sean MacLeod: I like blue collar jobs, but I want to be able to think of like take seven downtown, the restaurant downtown that employs women that are at risk, right? Or coming out of programs and at risk of going back into. Drugs, alcohol, living situations they shouldn't be. I want to be able to support that. I want to be able to have it like Hilti does a good job with this.

Sean MacLeod: There's other organizations within Tulsa that employ people that just need a different situation and need a chance, right? And that's a big piece of what I want to do is to be able to offer that. So there's [00:34:00] a lot of different ways that I'm trying to get back now. I talked about mentoring with kids. What I found out that I do really well with is I network really well.

Sean MacLeod: I'm relatable. Uh, I've got the gift of Gab. So I can, but I can network and pull people together really well. If I'm out donating or volunteering or mentoring, that's one person. And while, yes, I can make an impact, what I want to be able to do is I want to educate other people about these programs, about ways they can help, about their stories and how other people they can help.

Sean MacLeod: Because I feel like, while I know about some of these programs, there's a lot more out there I don't know, I want to educate everyone else about how they can partake in some of these programs. Because now I've got, instead of one, And I've got a team of people out there that are educated and can help the community and understand what the problems are.

Sean MacLeod: That's something that I found out that I do really well, and I'm trying to keep cultivating it. 

Adam Andreassen: Well, I can attest how well you do it, because as far as I knew, I was walking around shaking people's hands in, in appreciation for their volunteering time, which was its own thing. But in two [00:35:00] minutes, you told your story so naturally that it made me want to kind of invite you in here, and I think that that's truly, truly a gift.

Adam Andreassen: Whether you develop that skill or are natural at it, what an amazing gift to us and our community that you're using your voice in all these ways. And I just really, really appreciate you because, again, our stories are our own, they're personal, and we are entitled to keep them to ourselves. But the fact that you are sharing your story is helping.

Adam Andreassen: And I appreciate you coming in and being a part of this family in Tulsa and sharing your story with us today. I don't know if there's any final thoughts or anything. 

Tom Taylor: I want to echo what Adam said because, because of your story and your exposure to our Women in Recovery program. I'm glad you were able to discover our Young Professional Advisory Council or YPAC as we acronym it because I think that age group They're finding their footing and you found yours early And so I think spreading that message so that people know that there is a safe haven it just helps what we do as a non profit [00:36:00] Organization.

Tom Taylor: So thank you for your volunteerism in that. 

Sean MacLeod: Yeah, absolutely And I'm I'm on the the edge of you know, aging out of some of these programs But I remember when I was 22 and straight out of school, I had some of those young professionals that were on the edge of, you know, you're, you're getting up there and an age, but it was so impactful because they were still relatable.

Sean MacLeod: They're still in the circle, but they had this experience that they could relate differently to us and tell us how, you know, we could be impactful, what we can do connection support, but it was a bridge of a gap with people that are yeah. Elevated in either stature, age, experience, whatever it is, and then the ones that we're all young and dumb together, right?

Sean MacLeod: So, so I, I kind of see myself as I'm at that line where I can still impact some kids, but still relate to them, you know, as one myself. I'd like to think that age is more of a mental game than a number. So I try and stay in it a little bit too, for that reason. 

Tom Taylor: Just think of the mentorship you're doing with your own daughters and how much their life is gonna be enhanced by [00:37:00] what you're teaching them.

Sean MacLeod: Yeah, 

Tom Taylor: and I bring them into volunteering with me. And you're 

Adam Andreassen: just as relaxed and let them do whatever they want to the way your grandma let you do. That's right. I give them a long leash. Well thank you again for being here today and uh, we look forward to being friends for a long time from here. Yeah, absolutely.

Adam Andreassen: I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you Sean. Thanks for having me on. 

Chris Posey: Alright, thank you. You and Adam and Tom. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. If you found value in what you heard today, there are a few ways you can support and stay connected to us. First, be sure to hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening to us.

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