Speaking the Same Language: Building Cultural Connections in Mental Health

In this episode of OK State of Mind, a Family & Children’s Services podcast, Joana Melendez, School-Based Programs Supervisor, and Nichole Duck, School-Based Programs Director, unpack the complex realities of mental health within Mexican-American and Native American communities. From generational stigma and language barriers to historical mistrust and faith-based taboos, they explore how culture deeply shapes access to care and perceptions of wellness.

Together, Joana and Nichole discuss how Family & Children’s Services is addressing these challenges head-on — through bilingual services, culturally fluent communication, and community partnerships that honor mind, body, and spirit. They share firsthand insights from their school-based work, revealing how representation, trust, and simple human connection can transform fear into healing.

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Transcript

Joana Melendez: [00:00:00] There's a, a saying that we say in Spanish, so we're not from here, we're not from there. We're kind of trying to figure out where we're from. Hmm. So doing that culturally, trying to figure out, okay, what do I bring in? Do, do I shove it down? But then this culture's telling me, no, you need to speak about it.

It's okay. Like you, this is part of the healing. But then you're thinking. Is there something wrong? Because I keep going back and forth. When you grow up, you try to connect with your people. Mm-hmm. You try to connect with your culture. When you're from two, which one do you connect with? Mm. When they're seemed, when they seem to be saying different things, 

Nichole Duck: and I think we could do better to loosen up of like, let's, you know, open up to like what other people can bring to our practice and how we perceive and approach and ask our questions and be curious about, because.

I might be asking you about depression, but maybe this person sees it as a sickness in their spirit. Mm-hmm. And if you're not asking the right way or being open to learning the way that they might express it, then we might lose something in translation.

Speaker 4: According to a study from the American Psychiatry Association, [00:01:00] suicide is the second leading cause of death for American Indian and Alaska native girls between the ages of 10 and 34. The same group has the highest level of self-reported depression of any racial or ethnic group. The study also found that among Hispanic students, grades nine to 12, 18.9%, almost one in five students had made a plan to attempt suicide.

Most racial ethnic minority groups overall have similar, or in some cases, fewer mental disorders than whites. However, the consequences of mental illness in minorities may be longer lasting. I'm Chris Posey, your host on today's episode, and today we're gonna take a closer look at concerns specific to minority mental health, as well as some solutions and resources today on okay, state of mind, a podcast of family and children's services.

Well, it's good to have you all here today. Can we start out just by [00:02:00] talking about what you do here at Family and Children's Services? What's your day to day like? Joanna, we'll start with you. 

Joana Melendez: So my name is Joanna Melendez. I am a supervisor with the school-based program here. Alright. 

Nichole Duck: Uh, so Nicole Duck, I'm a program director and school-based and I work with, um.

Many folks on the leadership level and staff level to implement programming and support services for children and families across Tulsa County. And so we serve a diverse, uh, population, and we want to make sure that we're providing services that make sense and that meet the needs of the, our community.

Mm-hmm. And so we work really hard on a programmatic level to implement supports and strategies to make sure that we're listening to the client's needs and we're creating. Yeah. Sensible programming. 

Speaker 4: All 

Speaker 5: right. 

Speaker 4: Sounds good. Rachel, we haven't, haven't worked together in a long time. I know. It seems like, I know.

It's been a while. I've been in 

Rachel Roberts: hiding. Not really. 

Nichole Duck: Don't. Hi, Rachel. 

Rachel Roberts: I'll, I'm here. I'm here bright and early. [00:03:00] Well, before we begin talking about minority mental health, um, can we talk first about. What mental health is and what it isn't. 

Nichole Duck: Yeah, I think that's a great question to start with. I mean, I think we think about mental health, we think diagnosing and we think mental illness and mental health is really about how we connect our mind, body, and spirit in one, in an integrated way.

And so it's how we think, feel, act, interact with our systems, our environment, ourselves, others relationships, and through our connections. 

Speaker 4: Y'all feel that there are maybe some misconceptions about mental health out there? What mental health is? 

Joana Melendez: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I know. What do you see? Um, so in my culture, I am Mexican and so it's, if you're seeing somebody for that, you're crazy.

Speaker 4: Ah, all right. 

Joana Melendez: There's, if it's not fixable, it's something. Yeah. We are generally taught to, um, keep going. You can power through this. Mm-hmm. You've got to do, because there's no time to be. Weak and crying or upset because bills have to be paid. Mm-hmm. And the world has to keep [00:04:00] going and so you just gotta suck it up and go.

Hmm. So you saying that you can't, that you can't wake up, you can't drag yourself out of bed, you can't get up and shower, or that you're scared and you don't know why? There's no logic to that. Mm-hmm. There's no reason, therefore, it shouldn't exist. And if it does, there's something wrong with you. 

Speaker 4: It's not making it through the filter.

Yeah. 

Rachel Roberts: And how can that impact someone's like day-to-day life and activities? 

Joana Melendez: How does it not, is kind of right. Yeah. My question, well, I'm kind of stuck in the middle. Personally speaking, um, I'm kind of stuck in the middle because, um, I'm first generation, there's a, a saying that we say in Spanish. So we're not from here.

We're not from there. We're kind of trying to figure out where we're from. Hmm. So doing that culturally, trying to figure out, okay, what do I bring in? Do, do I shove it down? But then this culture's telling me, no, you need to speak about it. It's okay. Like you, this is part of the healing. But then you're thinking.

Is there something wrong? Because I keep going back and forth. When you grow up, you try to [00:05:00] connect with your people. Mm-hmm. You try to connect with your culture. When you're from two, which one do you connect with? Mm-hmm. When they're seemed, when they seem to be saying different things. Mm-hmm. So that's one of the things where it's like trying to remove your mind from a situation.

Yes. Can you do the day-to-day things? Yes, you can. Because some of them is just routine, it's just habitual that you do the things. But if you stop long enough. The noise in your head gets to you, and that's when you start questioning everything. So unless you can take your mind away from life, which you can't, then it's always gonna be something that you're thinking about in the back of your mind.

Speaker 5: Hmm 

Joana Melendez: mm-hmm. 

Nichole Duck: Yeah, and I think, I think that in indigenous culture, I don't speak for all tribes. I am part of one tribe, but I am not part of all. And so we are very nuanced in terms of the intricacies of. Tribal culture. Mm-hmm. And I think from my experience, and I, I can only speak from my experience and I'm not an expert in, in that except for what I can bring to the conversation for me is that it, it [00:06:00] feels more integrated and oneness.

And so I think sometimes we take mental health out and we say it's this separate thing. It's this other part of you that is scary and unknown and you know, overwhelming and you know, taboo. But I think that. Yeah, that can be a little bit of that colonized thinking is if we separate it in one thing versus another thing, then we get stuck in that trap of, of how do we, how do we make sense of it?

How do we reconcile and make peace with it? And really it's about making peace with ourself. Hmm. And, and feeling at one with who we are. And I think that the stigma and all of the, the misconceptions. Our larger society's way of kind of misconstruing and misguiding so that we focus on this other task of really just how do we get stuff done.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Nichole Duck: Yeah. How do we really take care of ourselves and each other? 

Speaker 4: Yeah. You feel like there are barriers in the, in the Native American community to, to access to, uh, accessing mental health care? 

Nichole Duck: Yeah. I mean, I [00:07:00] think there's stigma with accessing mental health care. Mm-hmm. Because there are other ways to take care of yourself.

And I mean self in the way of like your spirit and your, your psyche and your, your thinking and your relationships. And I think that there's a lot of mistrust in mental health and government agencies because of historical traumas that have happened in the Native American community. That have happened through boarding schools, through, uh, different medicine and medical practices.

And, um, at one point, you know, mental health and, you know, basically locking people up for being crazy, right? Mm-hmm. Because they didn't like how it sounded 

Speaker 4: and what was going on. What's the boarding school situation? Elaborate on that a little bit 

Nichole Duck: from, from my experience of it, in terms of my historical knowledge for me.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Speak on that. Is that it? It was a way to. Take away the Indian, 

Speaker 4: ah, 

Nichole Duck: it was a way to strip the Indian from their culture and who they were mm-hmm. And make them white [00:08:00] American. And they did that through a lot of ways and means. And they used, you know, structures like religion and medicine to say, you're not doing it right.

Mm-hmm. We don't like the way you're doing it, and you need to assimilate to how we are. Right? Mm-hmm. And so by stripping us of our culture and our identity. We've been lost for a long time, I think culturally. 

Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 

Nichole Duck: And so it's trying to step back into that space of finding ourselves in a common ground.

Chris Posey: Yeah. 

Nichole Duck: And making sense of that with where we're at now, culturally on this new social environment. Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 4: That's interesting. 

Rachel Roberts: Mm-hmm. Well, and you're kind of talking about that when it comes to like generational and, and the stories that are passed along to children and to family members. Do you think that mental health is perceived differently across generations within these different minority groups?

Absolutely. 

Nichole Duck: Yeah. I mean, I think on one hand mental health is seen as a weakness because it is seen as like if you get sick in any kind of way, [00:09:00] then you're subject to X, y, z consequence. Mm-hmm. And so. You have to be seen as strong and sturdy so that you seem that you have value and worth and so that you don't get taken advantage of.

Right. So then I think, you know, there's a lot of fear that kind of has been created based on different traumas that have happened throughout the generations and our experiences. That we carry into today. Mm-hmm. And it's having to shake some of that off of us to really move forward. There is more visibility mm-hmm.

And there is more permission 

Speaker 5: mm-hmm. To 

Nichole Duck: say we want to see you and we want to, you know, accept you and have you into these circles and, and have these conversations. But I think there's still hesitancy because there's still lingering mistrust of really, what do you wanna know? 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Right. 

Nichole Duck: Even come for me, coming into the podcast, I was like.

I really need to check in with myself to make sure that, one, I don't disrespect my people and I don't speak out in a way that makes it seem [00:10:00] like I'm speaking too much. Mm-hmm. Because I need, there are things that I wanna be vulnerable about, but there are things that I need to have boundaries with.

Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 4: I can see this entire thing. I mean, having a significant impact on mental health. If, if Yeah. You know, uh, a group of people is being instructed to suppress 

Nichole Duck: mm-hmm. You 

Speaker 4: know, their, their identity. 

Nichole Duck: Yeah. It really was. Yeah. The stripping of an identity. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. Joanna, how about among Mexican folks? Are there barriers to accessing mental health resources?

Joana Melendez: In my culture, um, we always speak to professionals and they know best, right? Mm-hmm. We heed what they say. We heed their advice, and, and they know best. So in the school system, that's gonna be the school administration. So if a referral is made for a kiddo. The common denominator that I've kind of seen is I, I'm not sure whether you agree or not, you're going to sign your kid up.

You're gonna do all the steps you need to so that you don't upset anyone. Don't step on any toes, do what you're [00:11:00] supposed to, because there's always that fear of I'm going to be in trouble mm-hmm. Of some way, shape or form, because things are very different where I'm from. And I wanna say like, Nicole, I'm speaking to my, my own experience in my culture with my family.

Specifically because even within Mexico as it is, I think with most countries, it's things are gonna change very dramatically from, you know, one state, one province to another. But from what I have seen, it's, we're gonna go ahead and sign 'em up. We're gonna go ahead and do the things. So that kind of gives 'em exposure to it.

And if, especially if there's positive changes that happen, then they're going to go ahead and maybe open up a little bit more. Unfortunately, if I'm being honest and transparent, um, with the climate the way it is, that has really. Taken us a lot of, so many steps backwards that has put us back so much.

It's just, it's made us not trust. Mm-hmm. And it has brought things, for example, um, it's brought fears that even perhaps we didn't experience before. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: It's a very fine line that I feel that, that we're [00:12:00] walking with what we share and how I want to open up and what I feel is gonna be too much. Even if it's for a little bit, it's not gonna be safe for a while.

Hmm. Which, um. It was one of my passions for getting into and becoming a therapist was because that alone would take down so many barriers. Just if you go in and you see someone who looks like you, you feel that connection. Mm-hmm. You're almost a little bit more relaxed. So trying to figure out what that looks like, how much do I share?

And even with working with the children in therapy, it's don't tell this, don't say this. Mm-hmm. So you will have people that, uh, or children in my experience, um, that come in and. If they say something, they'll give you the look and, you know, like, oh, they've been told, like they, they said too much. They're not supposed to.

Mm-hmm. Or they'll even sometimes say, I'm not supposed to tell you that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so at that point, as, as a clinician, you're thinking having a voice for yourself and mm-hmm. Speaking up to what you feel. That could be a sign of disrespect. Mm-hmm. It often is. Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] Um, in my culture. So how do you educate someone or how do, or is that even okay for them?

How do you find what that line is? Mm-hmm. And so again, going back to the which way do I do I help someone lean is different because they're also looking at you and saying, you're the expert, you're the professional. I will do whatever you tell me to. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: What do you do with that when you're still having the same struggles yourself?

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. So there's gotta be a challenge. You're, you're always thinking on your feet when you're, when we're, when you're with a client, I assume, because you're having to ask those questions and then find that middle ground where you're receptive without being, you know, pushy and, uh, you're giving them the space they need, but you're also trying to, you know, evoke, um, some good conversation.

I, I really appreciate your inspiration in getting into therapy. Do you see the landscape? Changing among the demographic of [00:14:00] therapists are, are more minority individuals getting involved in it. Because I, I think what you're saying is, is really powerful. You know, the, the notion of getting in there and being able to see somebody who is who you identify with under Yeah.

That you can identify with. Exactly. Are things changing in the, in that profession. 

Nichole Duck: I think so. I mean, I, I think, I absolutely think so. I mean, we see a new generation every time we get new interns. I feel like, yeah, this is true. This is true. 

Joana Melendez: Um, I, I will be selfish to say, not to the degree that I would love Yeah.

To see. Mm-hmm. For sure. Um, I, I'm always at squeaky wheel. Its, but this is in Spanish. Do we have this in Spanish? Especially for like. My agency. It's, it's huge. And that's always, I'm, I'm the one and IE will even preface it saying, it's me again. Is this available? What are we doing to help our Spanish speaking community?

Nichole Duck: But so needed. I mean, I think we don't always think about that because again, we have our, our perspective on. Mm-hmm. And we are [00:15:00] not, we need that perspective, is what I'm saying. And we need to be challenged so that we can evolve into not having, you have to say it 'cause we just gonna do it. Yeah, 

Joana Melendez: I live for that day.

That's the high in the sky for me for sure. Um, wanting to do that. Um, I, speaking personally, I am the first in my family to have pursued a master's degree in the, there's a lot of firsts that are happening that I will be honest, feel. The American side of me is very proud. Mm-hmm. I did this and, and, you know, all these accomplishments, the Mexican, the Latina side of me is how is this gonna help your family?

How is this gonna help your people? How are you pulling them forward by doing this? Mm-hmm. Yeah. While it seems like it would be one, you know, hand in hand it's not. Mm-hmm. Um, there's, there's a lot because, you know, the whole imposter syndrome that you're like, oh, am I really like. Should I really be here?

Am I really doing this? Like, why me? But then you also, you, you have information. You have knowledge that gives you permission to feel things, to say [00:16:00] things. You just have to find the way to say it where it's still appropriate. Mm-hmm. Where it's still going to be received. Maybe not necessarily appropriate, but where it's going to be received, which is gonna be your ultimate goal.

Mm-hmm. Where it's going to say. You know what? It's okay. It is okay that you wake up and you don't feel like you're gonna conquer the world. Right? In my culture, if you have no use, you have no purpose. And yeah, which adds to, as you get older, it adds to the fact that when you are not able to do those things anymore, then you depression and, and all these things that come up that people just don't.

Don't talk about, they don't, it's just, it's just what happens. Mm-hmm. It's, it's just what it is. So you kind of accept it. So going from one to another, I, I recently, and sorry if I'm going on here, but I, I, um, I was thinking about this as we were preparing for this podcast and I thought, I remember growing up, um, having conversations with my mom, I had a lot of feelings.

It's a very emotional person, [00:17:00] a lot of anger, a lot of, um, things that I can now be like, oh. That wasn't okay. Um, a lot of things going on and I remember going to my mother, bless her, okay, single mother, four kids. She got married at 14, had a kid by 15, was done by 19, um, and left. So I have big shoes to fill, right?

Mm-hmm. So let's just start with that. Mm-hmm. The, the pressure of this is who you have an ex as an example, you have to do that, and then more. Like, how are you going to honor her by doing better, by providing more, by doing more, by being more. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: Long story short, went to, um. ESL classes. Learned to speak English, put herself through GED classes.

Got her GED, went through college, got her associates. She, she's a small business owner. She's an immigration counselor, so she's huge shoes, right? Mm-hmm. It's amazing. It makes me so proud, but it's just kind of like the expectation. Her proud kids do better. How do I make her proud? Mm-hmm. Mm. You have nailed it.

How do I make her proud? And every day you kinda [00:18:00] live and say, how do I honor? Right. The sacrifices that she made, right? Mm-hmm. Right. How do I uphold that? And so while it seems maybe like just part of who you are, it's, it plays into your mental health. 

Speaker 5: Hmm. 

Joana Melendez: When you wake up, whenever you're doing your things, when you're walking across the stage to get your, is this gonna be enough?

Is this more so, um. So big shoes to fill. So growing up, uh, she did the best she could. She did the best she could with what knowledge she had. Um, but I remember there was a time when I, I would, you know, I would just be screaming and crying, not really knowing what was going on, and I would tell, I just don't wanna live.

I don't wanna be here anymore. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: And so the Mexican way at that time, it's just like, you're fine. Nothing's wrong. You have these things. You have a roofer, a head jet roof in your belly. You have all this. There's no reason why she do that. So she called a pastor in, which is what you did. Yeah. Which is, I mean mm-hmm.

If it got to the point you call a pastor in because things are still kind of private, the understanding of privacy, I think with, [00:19:00] or confidentiality with therapy isn't, it's, it's, it's still a little bit foreign, but having the opportunity and opening up and saying maybe there's a different way, maybe that worked at the time and there's a different way now.

So when my boys of both of my boys came at different times, um. They came and they talked to me about struggles that they were having, not because I'm this great mom or because I'm, I'm always open and it No, no, no, no. But just providing the space. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: To say, you know what, I, I don't know, but I'm listening.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: I don't know. I didn't. I always wondered, where did they get these words? Words that I couldn't have never imagined to, to come and say, to put words to what I was going through, to my anxiety, my depression, all those things. They didn't, there wasn't a language for that. So whenever they, they came to me and it was really hard, as well as being the person who's supposed to fix things and, and, and being the head of the family and I was supposed to take care of and being a therapist.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: How am I not able to help my kids? [00:20:00] Why are you, and I heard the voice again. Why? Mm-hmm. You have me. I listened to you. You have what you need. You have, I heard it again. And it was, it had to be very intentional for me to say, just listen. Just listen. Admit. What you don't know is I don't know how to help you.

Mm-hmm. I don't understand, but I'm going to find someone. If you need someone to talk to, I'm gonna find, and if that person doesn't fit, we're gonna find someone else. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: So doing that, um, I think, or, or my hope is that I move. I grew up on survival. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: And I want them to grow up in healing. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So that's what I'm hoping to set up for them. 

Nichole Duck: Well, I like how you're saying all that. I mean, to me, as I was thinking, as you were talking, I was like, it sounds like you've really blended the parts of you that come from your mom in the culture that you carry with you today into like. What you are today and who you are.

Like you've kind of married those two things in this really beautiful way to give [00:21:00] your sons this safe space to have conversations with you of like, this is what I'm going through. Um, so you've found like a way to create, I guess, common ground or connectivity with like the cultural parts of you that you bring that are so beautiful and evolve those into the culture of your family today.

Joana Melendez: Every day is a battle to figure out who, who am I? What is this movie? Yeah. And I don't think that that's necessarily specific to my culture. I think that might be everybody. Well, 

Speaker 4: I've heard both of you kind of say a, a similar statement. Like there's this pursuit of identity that comes from, you know, from being within a different culture, you know, day to day.

As I was listening to your story, Joanna, um, a couple of things were coming to mind. One was the, the value of utility. Like, I've got to do this. I have to, it's almost like this, uh, servanthood, particularly to your family. I've got to serve my family in this [00:22:00] way, but I, I can foresee that this would be something that would your community as a whole might deal with.

Um, no. I, I can't do that. I, I don't have the time for the mental health care. It's selfish. Yeah. Yeah. Right. 

Joana Melendez: It's selfish. I think is, is how I always. I didn't have another word for it, but it's, it's selfish. Why are we worried about you? Yes. Okay. You're feeling sad. You know what? Fine. Suck it up. Take a shower, get in.

Yeah. And do the things right. Especially once you have kids. Right. When you have family to care for and it's not always kids, you don't have time for that. Your role has shifted from being the child and being taken care of to now you need to do, for this extent of period of time, you need to do the things.

Mm-hmm. And then once you pass that period of time, your adulthood. And as long as you're still use, you can do, you're still in the adulthood. Then you move on to being an elder, then you move on to more relaxing and, and her sisters, she's had a lot of medical issues and when she's not able to do things, she has fallen into deep depression about that.

Mm-hmm. I can't, I can't [00:23:00] drive, I can't do these things. I'm useless. Mm-hmm. There's no, what's the point? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Shifting that and, and the pain you carry with that and saying, I hear you. Like I understand, I. I don't understand. 'cause I've lived it. I understand. Because historically that's what's flowing in my blood.

Mm-hmm. I know my expiration date. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: And so trying to find the voice of saying that's not where your worth is. Which I think ties in huge to mental health is, is how do you see yourself and then you're finding yourself as yourself, doesn't matter how does your presence make the world better. 

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Joana Melendez: And that's a huge pressure to have. Yeah. Whenever you're, you're trying to also take care of yourself. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Nichole Duck: There's a lot of like things and people and stuff that precede you. Right? Okay. We have to take care of all these other things before. Mm-hmm. We, we take care of this, but it's not because we're neglectful of our individual self as much as it is that we are trying to balance the importance of taking care of and [00:24:00] nurturing mm-hmm.

Others in our family as well as. Us too. Mm-hmm. So it's just remembering it's us too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Speaker 4: You know, both of you have made reference to faith and religious practice. Do you feel that there is a, a balance there between faith and religious practice and seeking mental health? How does faith and religion tie into seeking mental health care in your communities?

Nichole Duck: I don't know that it does very well. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that there's a lot of separation between mm-hmm. Faith and mental health care because people are so scared to talk about it. It's like politics, you know, like, oh, don't talk about it. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Like, come on. Like, we're, we're pretty grown up, I think, and we're human.

Like it's, it's a part of us. Right. But culturally, do we have permission? And I don't know. Yeah. I mean, and, but I do think faith is absolutely critically vital too. Healthy mental health. Mm-hmm. And, and [00:25:00] do I think it interferes with accessing mental health care sometimes? Absolutely. Do I think it is always necessary that you access mental health care and you rely on faith?

I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think faith has a lot of utility and function and mm-hmm. It gets us through really difficult dark times and so it's, it's necessary. Um, 

Speaker 4: and you mentioned not, not being hesitant to speak about. It. Were you talking about religion or mental health? What is it that people are, we're both, yeah.

Right. 

Nichole Duck: Maybe both. Okay. I mean, I think it's just honoring the, the, the privacy that is built around those practices. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And beliefs so that they stay protected. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: In my culture, um, majority, usually the default I would say is, is. Catholicism. Mm-hmm. Um, so there are prayers you can say. There are things you can say.

I myself am not Catholic. So it shifts. That [00:26:00] in itself is kind of like, well, this is all you ever knew. You kind of grow up and you're automatically Catholic. And then, um, anything that happens outside of that is, is on your own. But like I said, my mother sought out a pastor because that was the safest person they knew.

Um, as you were talking, Nicole, I'm thinking faith is going to be that. Diet and exercise that you need, the sunlight that you need to kind of stay healthy. Yeah. But sometimes there's things that happen that require a doctor. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Doctor intervention. Sometimes we have an emergency that we have to go to a hospital mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. To do things. Mm-hmm. And that's oftentimes how I would explain this to families. Whenever I would sense it's kind of a little more hesitant or it's fine, they're, they said this, they're just here for the bare minimum. So that they don't get reported anywhere or nothing happens. They don't get kicked out of school or that you're uncomfortable 

Nichole Duck: with it.

Joana Melendez: Yeah. You know, if, and it's, it's easy to pick up and to sense. Yeah. When you walk in and if you mention something, there's almost kind of a, they're watching to see your reactions for those [00:27:00] micro expressions for Yeah. Adjusting in the chairs because you're like, Hmm, not safe. Immediately retreat, and we're not gonna talk about that.

Mm-hmm. You don't believe in it. You don't think, I know that we have, uh, eros, like if something's really bad, then. You did some bad or evils after you. My children know of the stories, but I'm just like, your mind is a very powerful thing. Mm-hmm. Which is why it's important to keep it healthy. So even things for physical health, you're like, no, you don't, we don't do that.

You don't go to a doctor unless, and, and honestly, you don't even go to a medical doctor unless you're like bleeding out. There's blood, there's bone like, and even that looks like you can't fix that with a little. Little bit, I'll take care of that. The extreme because of many things. Accessibility, because of cost, because, um, just so many things that come with it 

Speaker 5: mm-hmm.

Joana Melendez: That you don't stop and think, okay, maybe I need to take care of myself first. Mm-hmm. Maybe this is my body signaling something and let's take care of it first. Versus, you know, when it gets so much worse. Mm-hmm. 

Nichole Duck: Yeah. [00:28:00] In mental health and, and the way we kind of see it through. The indigenous culture is really about like sickness of the spirit and you know, how you really help heal the spirit so that you're, you're feeling better, you know, and there's lots of ways to do that.

And I don't know, so it was just really powerful. As you were talking, I felt kind of inspired to say that, and I wanted to share, like, it, it mental health is bigger than just talking about or asking these questions of like, I have this paperwork. I gotta ask you your symptoms checklist. There's a checklist.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, and it's prescribed in some way. It feels a little bit, you know, and it's, it should be, and I'm not judging and it is what it is, and I respect it and love it. And. I think we could do better to loosen up of like, let's, you know, open up to like what other people can bring to our practice and how we perceive and approach and ask our questions and be curious about, because I might be asking you about depression, but maybe this person sees it as a sickness in their spirit.

Mm-hmm. And if you're not asking the right way or being open to learning the way that they might express it, then we might [00:29:00] lose something in translation. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 4: That's. Interesting. There's surely some parallels there between the sickness of the spirit and, and just mental health. 

Nichole Duck: And there's definitely, I mean, it's mind, body, spirit.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. 

Joana Melendez: Talk about wellness is not just gonna be just your physical wellness or your mental illness, like it's, everything is spiritual. How are you, I mean, financially, how are you? That's gonna affect, like, that's my biggest thing is I don't know. And that's the opposite of what my, you know, Mexicans wanna hear is.

Come on. Yeah. I don't know. You don't know. And I'm paying all this money. Mm-hmm. Or insurance paying or whatever. How do you not know? No, I don't know. Your life. Mm-hmm. You have to tell me about your life. Because my culture is very different than my sister's culture, than my brother's culture. We grew up together.

Mm-hmm. But what we've, every, everything that has happened to us that has impacted us, it has changed or tweaked us a little bit who we're around, who we surround ourselves with. So I want to learn about that person and what's important to them, because I may think it's really important that you stop.

Hurting yourself or you updating these things when that's not their top [00:30:00] priority. Mm-hmm. And who am I to say what's best for them in that sense? Right. Um, they need to be able to tell me what's important to you, what's valuable to you, what is it that you're not getting? So let's start with those basics.

Yeah. I've always been very strategic about bringing it up, how to bring it up, the words to use, um, to kind of start introducing the idea of. Mental health matters. Mm-hmm. 

Nichole Duck: Yeah. For me, like it's with the sickness of the spirit, it's really, we don't want to impose that onto anyone else. Mm-hmm. Right. Because it can be shared.

Yeah. Energetically. I mean, so you know, there is some hesitancy of like, I'm going to this person and I'm giving them my bad spirit and I don't want to sicken someone else. And so making sure that they feel safe in that space to know like. How you're protecting yourself, you know? And you're sharing like this is the kind of process, this is what you can expect to happen.

You know, me learning about your story, this is me understanding what you need, but I don't take it personally. Mm-hmm. And I don't carry it with me. [00:31:00] I let you keep it and I trust that you're gonna take care of that and that you're gonna resolve it. Mm-hmm. And I'm here to walk with you and be your partner in that.

And journey with you to kind of help guide you into the direction that you wanna go for your health and healing. 

Joana Melendez: Yeah. I think that's huge though. You, you said like they don't want to pass that spirit on. Mm-hmm. You know, that, that sick spirit that Ill spirit, the not well spirit, um, which I think is a lot of the reasons.

Why we also keep things inside. Right. We don't wanna be a burden. Yeah. Right. You're supposed to be helping the family. You, it takes away your utility. That's right. Yeah, it does. You're supposed to. How is that helpful? How is you sitting here crying about, you don't even know what, how is that helpful? Yeah.

You're stressed. You're angry. You don't even know what you're angry about. How is, how is that gonna be helpful to them? Mm-hmm. Productive. 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Joana Melendez: And then you feel bad. You're like, oh, okay. Well, I'm a burden. I'm causing more pain than I hour strife, than I am anything. So, and I think that that's huge. Like with men.

Yeah. The [00:32:00] machismo, the, now that I have, the knowledge that I have, machismo isn't what it used to be to me when I was growing up. 

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: Um, my mother was a single mother. She was very independent and never, she would say never marry a Mexican machos. They're machos, which is, you know, the whole, do what I say and all these things.

No feelings. No feelings. Mm-hmm. We're involved. So raising two boys has been really interesting with that. Um, their father is also Mexican and he's actually someone that they sometimes go to to talk. Mm-hmm. So him being able to open up and saying, or apologizing for something he said to his children mm-hmm.

To guys, I have seen interactions with them that create hope that if we just open ourselves up to say. I, I get that you're a guy, but you, you're, you're human at the root of it. You're human. You have feelings and you have, and it's okay to have those feelings. It's okay to have those feelings. Maybe the, the, the verbiage should have been okay.

[00:33:00] It's fine to have those feelings, just it's not okay to hurt others or whatever the case may be. And so seeing that shift, it does give me hope to what you're talking about, seeing it change throughout the generations. Mm-hmm. One of the things that I would tell 'em before is okay, if they're talking, listen.

And then can you repeat what they said? Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 5: That's 

Joana Melendez: how you can to me. Mm-hmm. That's how I was able to kind of really hear someone instead of thinking, oh, well I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna say that. Mm-hmm. And that's just been a huge thing. And seeing that shift with him has really given me, um, a lot of hope that, you know, and having my kids just coming and opening up, Hey, do you have a minute?

Can I talk to you? Mm-hmm. That's huge. I didn't grow up knowing that. And, and men didn't have permission to have feelings because you were the breadwinner, like. You don't have time to sit there and feel not even physically tired. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. How is that 

Joana Melendez: even a thing? Like 

Speaker 4: Yeah. Again, back to the whole utility thing.

Yeah, 

Joana Melendez: exactly. Mm-hmm. You have a purpose. You bring everything home and, and as a female, you take care of everything that's within the home. Mm-hmm. Um, it sounds very stereotypical, but it's a [00:34:00] lot, it's a lot of pressure. A lot. I bet. Bet, I'll bet. And then you're coming into here now, like I gotta make sure, you know, the dentist appointments and the checkups and the things are happening and that, that there's food and.

It's a lot of pressure, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure. 

Speaker 4: Nicole, how about you? Gender roles? Do they play a, a, a, a big part in mental health and the, the pursuit of mental health? 

Nichole Duck: Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot of shame when it comes to seeking mental health, and I can't speak for the men in my, my circle and my community necessarily outside of just what I've experienced of them.

Again, I've just. There's a lot of shame in terms of I need help and asking for help, and it's hard to ask for help, and that in and of itself is a barrier. Mm-hmm. Is just having the capacity to let yourself ask for help. Yeah. 

Rachel Roberts: When we've talked [00:35:00] about barriers, generations, you know what we learn growing up and then we mirror that maybe into our adult life.

But I'm just curious, you know, how can, like, for instance, family and children's services as a mental health agency, what, what can we do to meet the needs of these diverse communities and how are we doing that maybe already? 

Nichole Duck: I think we're doing a good job to be in the community and get visible. Mm-hmm.

And partner with. A variety of organizations on various levels. And so it's not just agency to agency, it's within the communities that we're serving. So I think we've done a really good job to put feet on the ground and get in those communities. And I think just more of that and. Really pulling on our staff because we have within our agency so many resources that we probably don't even know about.

Mm-hmm. That could really pull us into a forward [00:36:00] direction in this area of like really providing representation. Mm-hmm. And access to communities that we haven't been in yet, or that are still working with. Who, who, who are, who's working for us, and how do we really leverage their talents and resources and, and strengths to pull us into those conversations with their communities.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. What are some of the resources, whether it's at Family and children services or outside, what resources are available to, particularly to minority communities with regard to mental health? 

Joana Melendez: Well, I know that family and children's services does have throughout week. Lots of departments, but throughout the departments there are definitely bilingual staffs.

Yeah. Sprinkled throughout. Yeah. I think that is huge. Mm-hmm. To have someone just to, for you to be able to communicate. I as, I worked as an interpreter for many years and even though I tried my best and I did all the things being there, interpreting for a therapist and, and a family member, um, or a client.

There's still something left that's missing with that, that third person [00:37:00] there. So I think the more clinicians that we are getting, which we do have a surprising amount of clinicians available, um, to help with those, even if it's just that first step, I think is huge for family children's services. If immigration is a, is a concern, get, you know, there's resources, Catholic Charities, there's Tulsa Immigration Services.

So there's different places that can give you just information. 'cause sometimes just knowing the information and finding those reputable. Places. Mm-hmm. And word of mouth is really how a lot of things, um, in my community kind of gets told. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Word of mouth is important. Yeah. Yeah. Because it comes from someone who you trust or you hear, you're like, right, okay, lemme try that.

Exactly. I just look into it, right? 

Nichole Duck: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 4: Oh, I, I'm still a little stuck on the fact, Joanna, that you are questioning the medi medicinal validity of seven up. When one is sick. But I did want to ask you, you were talking about having bilingual therapists. Is that a pretty big barrier? 

Joana Melendez: Oh, that is major.

Mm-hmm. And granted a [00:38:00] lot in our department, a lot of the school age kids are going to speak. English, right? Mm-hmm. Or, or, or in the process of learning it, being able to speak in their language for them to understand what you're saying. Mm-hmm. Is, is major, is huge. And not only being able to speak the language, but being able to understand enough of the language to be able to not have it very clinical.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Conversational. Yeah. Yeah. It's beyond 

Speaker 4: just knowing, you know, your child symptoms is X, Y, Z. Right. 

Joana Melendez: Versus here's the struggles he is having. This is how it's showing up on your specific child. Yeah. Like this is, this is what that is. It's not them. Especially because a lot of mental health comes across as for children is behavioral.

It seems like things you can control. Right. It's not a broken arm. It's not you in a wheelchair. It's not something you can see, which I think is a stigma. I mean across just mm-hmm. Human nature. For example, trying to explain a DHD to a Mexican parent. Mm-hmm. Which was my experience explaining to dad son has a DHD.

It is just a behavior thing. You're gonna get up and you're choosing to, how is this not within their [00:39:00] control? They're obviously doing this. I'm saying keep their body still and there. So explaining like the, the neuroscience even behind like the, this is what's happening. Yeah. Like it's literally not within their control.

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Joana Melendez: And the more you can do that in their own language and maybe like you would in English, if this doesn't work, let me explain it a different way. Let me use different words. Mm-hmm. Being able to do that and shift in their own language is going to be something that is going to stay with them, hopefully.

They could pass it along and they can pass it along. And so that ripple effect is kind of what you would be after to spread the word that? Hmm. Or just to create enough curiosity to be curious about maybe there's a different thing. Mm-hmm. Maybe something is different. Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 4: That would be challenging. I mean, even if it were your first language, I can't imagine.

Translating and then making it accessible, making it understandable, and, you know, just like, uh, norm, just regular communication, regular conversation. 

Joana Melendez: Part of mental health is being [00:40:00] able to feel connected, like we said in the beginning. Mm-hmm. Yeah. To your own culture. Yeah. To, to who you are in this world.

Nichole Duck: I think that's huge. 'cause I think a lot of times there's just being disconnected from our culture is really painful. Mm-hmm. And that in and of itself is part of the healing journey, is reconnecting with permission to re-engage in our culture of like, or to Reno or to relearn or like, you know, you kind of disconnected with it.

I've disconnected with mine when I was a child. I mean, and there's certain reasons we do that. And being in a space now where it feels like. I don't have to care about what people think I am, who this is, right. And then re kind of learning and, and finding again myself through my culture has really promoted my feeling integrated in my mental health and in my body.

Joana Melendez: I love that you said that. Um, because one of the things, even, even just recently here in just the last year or two, one of the major things, like when I came up and Chris said, how do you pronounce your name? And so I was like, well, [00:41:00] um, that's been one thing that I have learned is very, uh, names are very important.

So growing up I was like, it was no big deal. It was just a thing. And, and, but growing up I was like, no. You know what? My name is Joanna. Mm-hmm. It's not Joanna, Joanne, Jonah, whatever other. It's Joanna, Joanna, Melinda. And so it's. It became really important to me that people say it, right? Mm-hmm. Especially if I have to hear it suddenly.

Yeah, absolutely. So I had worked with some of the people previously, and so as people, the new people were asking me, oh, how do you pronounce your name? I'd say, Joanna. And I would tell 'em like, Moana, but with a J. And so the people that knew me previously, they're like, I've been saying your name wrong. It's like, uh, it's, it's fine.

Why didn't you correct me? And the first time I heard that. I thought, why didn't I? 

Speaker 5: Right. 

Joana Melendez: Why? Why didn't it matter? So even any stage in your life, giving yourself permission to say, you know what? Who I was is different than who I am now. Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Joana Melendez: And to me, in. Connecting to that culture piece of, this is how you say my name?

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

Joana Melendez: Has been huge and it has made me [00:42:00] feel, or in a culture where I always have to worry about the whole, it has made me, it has given me permission to be individual. Yeah. To be an individual in that, and to have something that's very mine. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And. Honor what it meant. It was my grandfather needed me.

So that's a huge connection to, you know, my ancestry as well. Yeah. So I love that. Thank you both 

Speaker 4: for being here with us today. Really great information, useful information, and I really appreciate your willingness to take part today. So thank you. 

Joana Melendez: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. The opportunity. Thanks guys.

Absolutely.

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