More Than Retirement: Supporting Mental Health in Older Adults

In this episode of OK State of Mind, a Family & Children’s Services podcast, the conversation centers on the mental health needs of older adults—one of the fastest-growing yet least visible populations in our communities. Eileen Bradshaw, President & CEO of Life Senior Services, joins Kaitlin Foster, Vice President of Adult Outpatient Services at FCS, and Tom Taylor, Chief Development Officer at FCS, to challenge common misconceptions about aging, isolation, and help-seeking.

Together, they explore why older adults are less likely to seek mental health care, how symptoms often show up physically instead of emotionally, and why grief, depression, and anxiety can compound after repeated life losses. The episode also highlights the critical role of caregivers, the emotional weight of retirement and identity shifts, and how community partnerships between Life Senior Services and FCS are helping seniors access support without fear or stigma.

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Transcript

Kaitlin Foster: [00:00:00] People assume older adults make up a small portion of our population. Mm-hmm. And that is just not the case. Mm-hmm. It's not just the segment of people that is needs is forgotten about, or that is not significantly impactful. It's a large portion of our population. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Yeah. I don't think I had any comprehension before I came to work in this role.
How many people really don't have anyone in their lives? Mm-hmm. Or they have very few people in their lives and they endure treatment because they just don't know what else to do. They don't, don't have any other options, 
Chris Posey: right? Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Exactly. 
Chris Posey: Baby boomers individuals, roughly 72 years old and older at the time of this recording, made up close to 20% of the US population in 2024, yet.
As one of our guests today notes, they are widely unseen For reasons we'll delve into today, this lack [00:01:00] of visibility or lack of voice can lead to unique mental and behavioral health needs. Today we welcome a very special guest who provides for us a refreshing view of care for older adults. We'll share some of the insights about mental health and aging from life, senior Services President and CEO.
Eileen Bradshaw, while Life Senior Services can provide individual help to you at 9 1 8 6 6 4 6,000. Today's episode is designed for a broad audience and is full of practical, actionable insights for older adults and those who care for them. 
Tom Taylor: We're happy to have you join us today on, okay State of Mind, a podcast of family and children's services.
Chris Posey: Well, welcome everyone. Today we're speaking about mental health in older adults, and we have a couple of faces that have been with us before and a new one. So let's just quickly go around the table and introduce ourselves. Eileen, we'll start with you. 
Eileen Bradshaw: I'm [00:02:00] Eileen Bradshaw. I'm the president and CEO of Life Senior Services.
Kaitlin Foster: I'm Caitlyn Foster. I'm the Vice President of Adult Outpatient Services with Family and Children's. And my 
Tom Taylor: name 
Kaitlin Foster: is 
Tom Taylor: Tom Taylor. 
Kaitlin Foster: I'm, 
Tom Taylor: I get to be our Chief Development Officer for Family and Children's Services. 
Chris Posey: All right. We're glad to have you with us today, Eileen. And. Tom and Caitlin, it's good to have you two back, so I know you know your, your way around this, so it's good to have you again.
So today we're talking again about, um, mental health and, and older adults. And so I would like to start out by laying a foundation, Eileen or, or Kaitlin, can either of you just give us some, tell us where we're at on, on mental health in older adults. You, what, what are we looking at here? 
Kaitlin Foster: So I think before you talk about the specifics of mental health within the older adult population, you have to understand the gravity of the population that we're talking about in terms of numbers and um, just what [00:03:00] that means to our community.
The older adult population. When you talk, when you say that phrase, people have different images in their head and they have different ideas of what it means to become an older adult. Mm-hmm. A lot of times that centers around. Fragility and loss of relationships, loss of mobility, loss of all of these different things.
Um, and that's not necessarily the case when you really dig into what does it mean to be an older adult. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: The other piece of that is our population as a whole is aging. Yeah, and so it's not this very specific kind of isolated group of people that we're talking about. There's not consensus in terms of what the age is.
Mm-hmm. To be an older adult. Obviously Medicare has its retirement age in mid to late sixties, but. Those researchers and social service agencies, when they talk about older adults, you're generally talking about individuals that are 55 and older. Mm-hmm. So that's a lot younger [00:04:00] than what most people think it 
Eileen Bradshaw: is.
That's exactly right. It's so funny what people consider being an older adult. Mm-hmm. Is typically somebody 10 years older than them. Yeah. Mm-hmm. No matter what their age is. Yeah. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. And I assume some of the things that we're gonna talk about today are affecting people well, well below the age of, of 60 years old, so.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. 
Tom Taylor: I thought Caitlin was first pointing at me. 
Kaitlin Foster: I'm not 
Chris Posey: targeting anyone 
Kaitlin Foster: specific 
Eileen Bradshaw: in this room. 
Chris Posey: Well, why is it important that we have this conversation about mental health in older adults now? Why? Why is this an important conversation today? 
Eileen Bradshaw: I think in the research I've done since I've been at Live senior services.
Older adults are the least likely population. So in that specific context, 65 and over mm-hmm. Are the least likely segment of a population to seek mental health help. And yet. 85 and older are the single most likely group to commit suicide. Second, I think it's 75 to 85. So I mean, that's something I don't think most people [00:05:00] know.
Mm-hmm. So mental health challenges go across the ages, right? It's not the needs. Uh, are different for seniors and it tends to be an issue that gets swept under the rug. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. Why do you think they are not seeking help? 
Eileen Bradshaw: I think there's a pride element. Mm-hmm. I think, depending on who we're talking about here, but if we're really talking about that 75 to 85, you know, those are folks that have been really brought up on the, you know.
Pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Yeah. Ethos and raising your hand to ask for help or anything is difficult. And mental health is something that wasn't talked about a lot, the younger side of older adults. It's been more widely discussed, but it's still, I think it's hard. Mm-hmm. And frankly. In a physician's office, you may be getting some pretty terrible news or discussing some pretty sad things, but most physicians just don't have the time to sound and say.
And how is that making you feel, Chris? Yeah. How do you need help in coping with this? I mean, those conversations just aren't really happening. 
Chris Posey: Hmm. That's interesting. Uh, the [00:06:00] pride aspect, and I wonder how connected to specific generations that is. I wonder if that arc is gonna change. Over time as we, as we roll into new generations becoming, becoming older, what are some misconceptions about aging?
Some, some general beliefs that need to be, uh, debunked. 
Eileen Bradshaw: I think that Caitlyn hit it when you talked about the fragility. Mm-hmm. I mean, that certainly applies to some people, but it's not universal. 
Kaitlin Foster: Mm-hmm. I think another thing is that people assume older adults make up a small portion of our population.
Mm-hmm. And that is just not the case. 
Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And we are living longer. It's, I think Stanford did a study that said, of all the five year olds that were alive in 2022. Half of them in the United States were likely to live to a hundred years old. 
Chris Posey: Oh my gosh. 
Kaitlin Foster: So as a whole, we are shifting. Mm-hmm. And we're shifting upwards in terms of [00:07:00] our life expectancy, which is great.
That also means that our older adult population is really growing. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And so it's not just this segment of people that is, needs is forgotten about or that is not significantly impactful. It's a large portion of our population 
Eileen Bradshaw: and it's diverse. Mm-hmm. So we're not talking about a blue zone where, you know, everybody's eating this macrobiotic, they all have the same.
Interests and they live in a little village. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's a very diverse group of older adults. And just like the population at large, you have extroverts, introverts, you have people with all kinds of interests and all kinds of, uh, abilities. And so when we talk about older adults, I think sometimes we picture Aunt B.
Mm-hmm. Um, and that's just not the case. 
Chris Posey: Right. 
Tom Taylor: Are you finding, um, this older adult population. Post-retirement and living longer is that they have to repurpose their lives in the second half of their life. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Yes. Um, some, for some folks, [00:08:00] yes. Mm-hmm. And it's really interesting, even something as sort of. Bonne as a conversation with somebody wanting to volunteer.
You know, about half the people say, I've been an attorney and I want to go and put that career to use to serve the public in another way. I wanna volunteer and review bylaws or whatever. And then you'll have somebody else come in and say, I'm an attorney. I never wanna see a law again in my life. Mm-hmm.
I wanted to be a florist and so I will work on galas only. Um, so some people want to. Completely do, uh, a reinvention. Mm-hmm. And some people will just want to adjust course with the life that they've sort of built, which is kind of a spectacular opportunity to be able to make a choice on how you wanna redeploy how you've been spending your time.
Tom Taylor: I love that word, redeploy. Yeah. Almost like a re. Uh, a second chance to do 
Eileen Bradshaw: what you wanna do. Yeah. It's, yes. Yeah. It's, it's can be just incredible. It can also be overwhelming. Yep. Right. There's a gentleman named Charlie Baker who, um, we [00:09:00] work with in our volunteer program. He's got a retirement, uh, it's called the Dream Chapter, and.
We've had a lot of conversations because he says we prepare so intensely financially for retirement, but we do not prepare emotionally for retirement. And that there especially, you know, um, I don't want to paraphrase Charlie, but he's been an executive coach for years and sometimes the higher powered the role, the harder retirement is right, because their identity has changed.
And so, um, they've got a whole checklist. We work with retirees and a give five program. Taking them around, letting them explore volunteer opportunities. Mm-hmm. But the first part of that class is about what do you want it to look like? Right. Like what do you, you do have the autonomy to make your new path.
Mm-hmm. But it can, it can actually cause mental health challenges. Mm-hmm. Because it can be so overwhelming. 
Tom Taylor: Mm-hmm. My mom, um. Has identified with that, you know? Mm-hmm. She, she retired 15 years ago, but like she's, after having this socio social network mm-hmm. [00:10:00] That we are also attuned to in the, in the working environment and then to not necessarily lose that, but it changes, you're no longer answering questions and that, you know, you, you become an a nana or you know that you've always been that.
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. 
Tom Taylor: But like, your world changed and she's like, it, it took her a good five to six years. Before her become comfortable with that. Mm-hmm. So I've loved the, the mm-hmm. What you mentioned about the mental health aspect of that. 
Eileen Bradshaw: It's real. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. 
Tom Taylor: Mm-hmm. 
Chris Posey: Well, and you know, this may be another misconception.
We, I I, I like what you were saying earlier, we kind of perceive older folks as Aunt B. Mm-hmm. But they're transforming just like mm-hmm. Any other is transforming. They're, they're continuing the constant state of transformation. And speaking for myself, I, I wonder if sometimes we think, oh, they're just, you know, steady.
There's, they're, they're unwavering, but we're all going through transformation. And this, regardless of your age. Um, Caitlyn, I want to go back to something you said earlier. We [00:11:00] assume the older population is smaller than it is. Mm-hmm. Why would people think that that population is small? 
Kaitlin Foster: Some of it might depend on your environment and exposure.
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: So as you're going about your day-to-day life, the older adults are not as visible 
Chris Posey: mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: In your world. Yeah. Some of that is because they have more time flexibility. Mm-hmm. And so they're out seeing the doctor and running errands during the day when I'm at work. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And so there's that natural assumption of the world is.
Made up of the people that I am familiar with. Yeah. And that I see on a regular basis. Yeah. And that's just not necessarily true. Yeah. But I think by 2030. In the United States, people that are 65 and older, there will be more of them than people that are 18 and younger. 
Tom Taylor: Oh my gosh. 
Kaitlin Foster: And so, like I said earlier, that's just right around the 
Tom Taylor: corner.
Kaitlin Foster: It's That's right. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Four years away. 
Tom Taylor: Yeah. 
Kaitlin Foster: And approximately four years. Yeah. And that will be a very large group of individuals in our country. [00:12:00] 
Chris Posey: Well, what are some of the unique mental health needs of this population? 
Kaitlin Foster: So I think one of the things that's important to recognize in older adults is their resilience and their perspective.
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: They've been through so many different phases of life and they have that gift of looking back and knowing that, yes, I can do hard things and this will not last forever. But in terms of needs, one of the major things that we see is just education. 
Chris Posey: Hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Because mental health was not. A hot topic or as accepted as talked about, it wasn't something that it was okay to discuss when they were younger.
And so the things that are popping up as what we would think of as mental health symptoms, a lot of times older adults. Express mental health needs physically. Hmm. And so they, it comes out when they go to their PCP. Hmm. It's [00:13:00] that I am not able to get outta bed in the morning. My stomach is hurting a lot.
I am just feeling very tired all the time, or my heart is racing. Mm-hmm. And you have to really be. Knowledgeable of that as a provider and be able to ask more specific questions about like, what is this? Where is this coming from? Yeah. Is this a physical need or is this something that is more mental health related?
Hmm. Um, so just educating and normalizing around mental health symptoms because older adults are not exempt. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: From mental health struggles. Yeah. 'cause yeah. You get to 65 and you have all this perspective and you have all this knowledge, that doesn't mean that life is just breezy after that. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm.
That's right. So it sounds like you're talking. Some anxiety here. Mm-hmm. Like keeping him up at night or waking him up in the morning mm-hmm. Or causing stomach, uh, to stomach problems or whatever. Um, what about, um, isolation? I, I, my stepmother, [00:14:00] who's I'm very close to, she's my last remaining parental figure.
She just turned 91 in October, and I walk in and we sit down and she'll say something like. It's been so long, you know, since, since you were here. And I say, well, I was, I was just here one week ago and I suspect it's because like she doesn't drive anymore. Mm-hmm. So if she gets out, it's her friends taking her or me taking her.
So I suspect that there's just some isolation issues there that make her, that make her weeks very long. 
Eileen Bradshaw: I have a very similar situation in my family and it's. You, it takes you back. You're like, actually I was here on Tuesday. Yeah. And I do think that isolation is the number one in immediate physical and mental health and seniors and it's hard to avoid because if they make the mature, safe decision at some point to give up their keys mm-hmm.
Then, um mm-hmm. You know, it comes with some isolation. Yeah. Inevitably life senior services, we have an active [00:15:00] senior center and that sounds fun, like parks and rec and it is fun. Yeah. Um, but it has a real. Mental health support component built in. Huh? And we actually offer some transportation when we have the funding, um, to get people there who don't drive anymore.
Oh. We lost some funding for transportation and the woman sent me a video and it was her on her couch talking about the mental health changes she had experienced since being able to get a ride to the senior center. Mm-hmm. And how fearful she was. About us losing that funding and what the impact was gonna be.
It was really kind of amazing. 
Tom Taylor: Yeah. 
Eileen Bradshaw: So I mean, yes, our senior center can do that, but any sort of scheduled, defined interaction that you can make happen with a blend of transportation, we're not as much of, um, faith-based congregational society anymore. And that has real ramifications for the senior population and socialization as well.
If you have a senior who's still involved in their faith community, that really does. Uh, solve a multitude [00:16:00] of things that if people are bringing them to church, people bringing 'em banana bread, all of that, that's a connection that a lot of folks don't have anymore. 
Tom Taylor: Yeah. Eileen, how many days a week does that program run with life?
Senior Services? 
Eileen Bradshaw: We are now open seven days a week. Oh, wow. Um, and we're open, um. Four evenings a week. So we, that was our goal with the new facility, was to get to be open seven days a week, because we have a lot of working seniors that were like, I'd love to come do that, but I have a job lady. So, um, we've got this, the, the evenings are still not quite as populated.
Mm-hmm. Like people will come to, uh, a specific yoga class or something, but they're not coming and hanging out in the evenings quite as much. Mm-hmm. So that's our next, next, uh, frontier to conquer. 
Chris Posey: Sounds good, and I suspect that isolation leads to things like the anxiety that we were talking about earlier, or maybe even, you know, more challenging mental health issues like depression and and grief.
Can you talk a little bit about those two things? Depression and grief in older [00:17:00] adults? 
Kaitlin Foster: Mm-hmm. So depression and grief, when you're looking at. The specific criteria and as a clinician diagnosing, they have two very separate paths. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: They feel similar sometimes, and the result is similar. It can be, um, but they are two different diagnoses and it's important to know the difference between the two.
When you're talking about grief and bereavement. That is something that is surrounding. Typically one event. Mm-hmm. The loss of a person or a thing like your job or your home. Um, you can grieve those things as well. It doesn't have to be just the death of someone close to you, but that's a very person or event centric thing.
And typically the feelings of grief come in waves and. You are tying that back to missing the person or missing the thing that you lost, whereas depression is just an [00:18:00] overarching. Hopelessness, sadness, um, feeling worthless about yourself. Mm-hmm. A lot of that happens with depression, and that's not something that we see typically in bereavement.
A lot of times people that have depression have also experienced suicidal thinking or wishing that they were not here anymore. And that is generally not a symptom of bereavement. It could be, yes. That I wish I was with my loved one and I, I want to be with them, but it's not, I want to die or I want to be dead.
Yeah. So sometimes bereavement can turn into depression though. Mm-hmm. And so that is really important to pay attention to that this. Very targeted emotional response and bereavement doesn't then bleed out into every aspect of your life. Mm-hmm. And with older adults too, you have to recognize that they are experiencing or can potentially experience loss after loss, [00:19:00] after loss, after loss.
And so losing a loved one, how I might experience that is going to be very different. That could be an isolated event for me, but I still have, mm-hmm. All these other things. I still have family members. I still have a social network. I still have a job that I can come to and I gain support from that. I have a support community, whereas an older adult, they could be losing their entire.
Family, they could lose their housing, they could lose their employment. And so at the end of the day, these support networks that other people that are other ages have, they're just no longer there anymore. Mm-hmm. And so it, every loss is just that much more magnified. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Yeah. The miracle of compounding interest, sort of.
It just, yeah. We see that, and I think when you, it's really. Great for you to delineate the difference. And so many people in a vocabulary term don't because they'll say, I am so depressed, I lost my husband. Mm-hmm. And they're going through grief. But that the, you [00:20:00] know, conflation of those two terms makes it a little bit harder for people to know how to support.
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it's a, a really important point that you make. They could be experiencing loss after loss, after loss, and I think there is, um, some melancholy that goes with that. How do we know when it's time to maybe start seeking help for our loved ones who are a little bit older when it crosses from melancholy to depression, like where it's, you know, really significant in their lives, right?
What can we watch for 
Kaitlin Foster: crosses over into clinical depression? 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: The symptoms of depression, they do look different in older adults like we were talking about earlier. They don't necessarily have the language or know the language. That, um, another demographic might have in terms of talking about depression and, and specifically using the word depressed.
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: That's not a common word 
Chris Posey: mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: That we see in most vocabularies. So you're [00:21:00] looking for other maybe sneakier expressions or symptoms that they're hinting at, or phrases that they might use. Um. It could be things like, do you feel worthless? Are you wanting to avoid social gatherings that you used to enjoy?
Do you feel like things are never going to get better for you? Yeah, and so not using as much. Clinical language. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: But really trying to figure out is there a difference in how you're feeling now versus how you felt six months or a year ago? Being able to use language that they understand and connect with.
Because if you just ask, are you feeling depressed? Most older adults will tell you no. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: When they think of someone that's depressed, they'll think of someone that is crying all the time and not able to get out of bed. And just that very stereotypical 
Chris Posey: mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Depressed person. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Um, this idea of [00:22:00] functional depression is foreign to them.
Chris Posey: Yeah. 
Kaitlin Foster: The language that you use is important 
Eileen Bradshaw: and I think you keyed in on behavioral things to look for. Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Like, 
Eileen Bradshaw: you know, you talk about your stepmother. If your stepmother suddenly. Didn't want, didn't care if you came to lunch, right? Mm-hmm. Or noticed real changes in sleeping and eating. Um, and I'm always a big believer if you have any concern, it's better to just be wrong.
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And, and seek some assistance. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. That's a point be told, 
Eileen Bradshaw: you know? 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Everything's great, so, 
Chris Posey: yeah. Yeah. What about substance abuse? Do, do you all see much of that in the older population? 
Eileen Bradshaw: Yes, sir. 
Kaitlin Foster: Yep. That's it. Yeah. Rising and highly concerning trend. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Um, the top substance that older adults use is alcohol.
Chris Posey: Okay. 
Kaitlin Foster: And part of that is because it's easily accessible. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And you can find a liquor store in pretty much every, every street corner. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And it's also socially acceptable. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. Yeah. 
Kaitlin Foster: And so that is the top [00:23:00] substance use that you find with older adults. The second is opioids. 
Chris Posey: Oh, wow. Okay. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And that is, well, no, that the opioid, um, issue is real.
And there is, um, really troubling instances of people not really understanding the weight of the prescriptions that they have. We are familiar with scenarios where, you know, there's a knock on the door. Hey Richard, I'm. Outta my, you know, pain pills. Can I have some of yours? I mean, in, in yeah. Co-locating situations that is not uncommon and it's a huge problem.
And we've had to have conversations about do you understand that if this person dies, taking your medication, that it's not only horrible for them, but you will be. But there is sometimes a lack of understanding in really what opioids. The power. 
Tom Taylor: Mm, mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And they're very commonly prescribed in the older population.
Yes. Yes they are. So 
Tom Taylor: does that go back to the, maybe [00:24:00] the how do we can educate the public and especially our PCPs on like, you know, does this, does this older adult need, uh, opioid prescription or not? 
Eileen Bradshaw: I just a personal opinion. Yes. I think that, um. Nobody wants to look at someone in chronic pain and, and keep them there, but I think a real evaluation of what options are on the table rather than just opioids.
Chris Posey: Well, and to Tom's point, PCPs are seeing these older adults and they're thinking. They know, like they know how to manage this. I don't have to tell them, don't share your medicine with anyone, but actually it may be, you know, an important thing to do. 
Tom Taylor: Well, it sounds like their caseloads are gonna be getting larger and larger in the next four years as well.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: We've started to see there are a few different health organizations that have started to focus solely on. The aging population, so, 
Chris Posey: Hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: I'm hoping that that also comes with increased awareness [00:25:00] and knowledge around the, how different medications impact older adults physically. Mm-hmm.
Because there's also that mm-hmm. That changes over time is how your, how your body metabolizes substances and medication. And so that puts them at increased risk. Um, and that's not always widely known. 
Chris Posey: We occasionally see terrible news about situations of abuse taking place with the older population, but I suspect it goes beyond physical abuse.
We see that's, that's what we see on the news, but I assume that there are other types of abuse that, you know, Tom and I can mm-hmm. Watch out for with our aging parents. What else are we seeing in the realm of abuse with older folks? 
Eileen Bradshaw: Financial abuse is. Mm-hmm. The thing that we probably see the most of.
Mm-hmm. I mean, all abuse is terrible. Yeah. Financial is just, it's more subtle. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And it can be from [00:26:00] strangers. Yeah. And it can be from people that you know, they love and trust. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: We actually have a partnership with domestic Violence Intervention Services. Mm-hmm. Where we have an elder abuse specialist.
And I frankly was sort of. Horrified that we needed that. Right? Yeah. Like, and there's just more than I ever realized. 
Chris Posey: Well, I think that is such a great point. I, I will go over and talk to my stepmother and she'll say, I got this text the other day, or I got an email the other day and they were saying that they're from my bank, or they're, they're saying that, mm-hmm.
I'm behind on something and she gets worried about that. Yes. And they know that that's how they can 
Eileen Bradshaw: Yes. 
Chris Posey: Get them. If they say you're behind on your payments, you need to, you know, click this link and get this resolved right away. So I think that's very real. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Right. And there's that space, especially with folks your stepmother's age and just a little bit younger where they are, it's great that they have the computer.
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And it's great that they have that way to stay connected. They're [00:27:00] not quite tech savvy enough. Yeah. To understand what not to click. That's a real gray zone that we see. Mm-hmm. We're constantly trying to do education. On, you know, fraud and prevention, but I mean, somebody comes up with a new deal every day.
Yeah. And so, um, 
Chris Posey: and it's more and more realistic every day. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And, you know, banks are sometimes the first people we get calls from financial institutions saying, we have a customer, and suddenly there's this younger person coming in with them that we've not seen before. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Who, and they're cashing checks and things, so.
Financial institutions actually, and there's some very compassionate, savvy bankers out there. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: That, um, take the time to pick up the phone and say, can you connect with this person? We think they need some help. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. That, 
Tom Taylor: that's great. Is amazing. 
Chris Posey: Yeah, 
Eileen Bradshaw: I know. It makes me, kind of moves me every time we get the call.
It's a horrible deal, but I love the fact that people, and as busy as they are, taking time to get to know customers in that way. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 
Kaitlin Foster: And in terms of financial abuse, like you were talking about earlier. One of the ways that we see [00:28:00] that is also in partnerships where you have a, a couple that has been together for a very long time.
Typically more traditional gender roles are followed. 
Tom Taylor: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And so sometimes it will be that one partner, typically the man, um, has the knowledge and the control over finances. Mm-hmm. And. Sometimes that can turn into abuse, sometimes not. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. 
Kaitlin Foster: But it puts both parties just in a really bad position because if he is controlling all of the finances and making all of the decisions.
Then the woman doesn't have a say in that. And then if he ends up believing or dying before she does, she's also in a bad position again. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Because she doesn't know how knowledge, yeah. To manage any of that. How to access and manage the finances. 
Chris Posey: Yeah, that's true. 
Kaitlin Foster: And can be vulnerable a second time.
Chris Posey: Yeah. What about the people [00:29:00] taking care of older adults? Um, I, I'm fortunate, fortunate to have a number of relatives who, who helped me. And so I don't think any one individual is getting overworked or overstressed. Uh, 'cause we, we all do a nice job of sharing the responsibilities, but just seeing how the responsibilities, how many there are that are shared among.
Half a dozen of us. I mean, if, if there were only one or two caretakers, I would imagine that would become pretty stressful. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Caretaking is incredibly, um, stressful, and it is a privilege to care for somebody that you love. Mm-hmm. And that, that is 100% a gift in many ways. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: But two things can be true.
It's also completely draining. Um. Physically, emotionally, and sometimes financially. 
Kaitlin Foster: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And as many resources are out there for that [00:30:00] support, there are folks that still can't accept it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That, you know, they really don't, they feel like it's somehow disloyal. They feel like in sickness and health, you know, they've taken the vows.
Mm-hmm. I'm the only one that can. Get my partner to eat lunch. I'm the only one that can change their clothing. I get calls, um, from people all the time, like, you need to get Judy to bring John to Adult Day Health, or you need to get, you know, Eric to bring Betty or, um, and I can. Make those calls. We can extend tours, we can do, but people have to be ready.
Mm-hmm. There's a real segment of the caregiving population that really does need support and has not felt comfortable accessing it. We have a. Caregiver support specialist on our team. Her name's Donna Manini and she's amazing. And she, that's all she does is caregiver support. So, um, she'll do multiple one-on-one sessions.
We have support groups, which are fantastic. Mm. But sometimes you need a closed door [00:31:00] to fall apart a little bit. She's also started recently a men's only caregiver support group, and that was based off of feedback that, um, from a gentleman, you know, saying. These ladies in this group are nice. I mean, God love them, but this isn't helping me, right?
Mm-hmm. Like the issues that I'm having, just practical issues. Like I don't know how to do my wife's hair. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And I'm getting criticized by her friends. So that has really taken off and it was something that I didn't even know we needed to be doing. Yeah. You know? Um, and so, um, we just try to meet people where there are, but the statistics on, um, the physical outcomes for caregivers are.
Dismal. Mm. Quite often they actually are outlived by the person they're caring for. Mm. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: So the effects and the impacts are tremendous. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And we all know somebody who is a caregiver. Mm-hmm. Um, if you're not yourself, any way we can encourage people to accept help in any way we can extend help.
If it's like, [00:32:00] can I take, you know, Joe to lunch and maybe you can go take a nap mm-hmm. Or get a massage or just mm-hmm. Watch the soap opera. I don't know. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Um, 
Chris Posey: well, it's true. I mean, we're not educated to be caregivers. Right. It just kind of happens to us 
Eileen Bradshaw: and sometimes overnight. 
Chris Posey: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Very suddenly, very unexpectedly. That's true. 
Tom Taylor: That's great that you all have that, that support system. Oh, yeah. Life senior services to offer that. 
Chris Posey: Yeah. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Well, I just, I just. Hate it when somebody says, I wish I would've known about that. I'm like, mm-hmm. So here we are shouting about it. Right? 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. Right, right.
Yeah. We have talked about, you know, kind of the sad side. Let's switch and move over to what resources are available and how can we help, and it could be life, senior services, it can be family and children's services, or just something that's out there. What, what's available. 
Kaitlin Foster: So Oklahoma is actually fairly progressive in terms of compiling and communicating [00:33:00] aging services that are available.
Mm-hmm. Um, through the Department of Human Services, they have an aging services division. Mm-hmm. And then Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services also has an older adult division. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: They both have state plans. And ways that they are addressing the needs of older adults. And obviously that's statewide, so just in Tulsa.
We rely heavily on life, senior services and what they provide in terms of the caregiver support and the day services. Mm-hmm. And the tax prep services, which we haven't even talked about, but it's a huge benefit to Oh yeah. The community. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And mental health specifically. Family and children's services has partnered with life to provide.
Free therapy and case management resources. Mm-hmm. To the individuals that are referred by them. And so sometimes that's a great way for us to get connected because they're going to a community partner that [00:34:00] they're familiar with and that they trust, and maybe they're going for day services, but someone, an employee there recognizes, Hey, I think this might be a little bit more than loneliness.
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Let's see if we can get your referral to family and children services for more in depth. Work. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm. We are just so grateful for this partnership with Family Children's because. You all are the experts and people do feel comfortable if they've come to get their Medicare reviewed or they've come to Texas.
It's a familiar space. Feels a little less scary than making an appointment in a place they haven't been. So having your team, uh, with us has just been materially game changing. We have case management so we can help you fill out, you know, your aid, attendance benefits. Mm-hmm. Or we can help you find a place to live.
But the mental health component is not. We do. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, but we come into contact with lots of folks that needed support. So it's been incredibly impactful. 
Chris Posey: Hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And we've learned a lot through our partnership. And it's grown over the years. We've been in [00:35:00] partnership together for three years. 
Eileen Bradshaw: I just remember sitting on my bed, working from home during COVID 
Kaitlin Foster: when we were 
Eileen Bradshaw: having the conversations.
Yeah. Um, 
Kaitlin Foster: it's evolved over the years, years, whatever that time was. Yeah. Yeah. We've added staff. Mm-hmm. And really just been a wonderful partnership. 
Chris Posey: It's been great. Well, what's one small thing that either an older adult or a caregiver or both could do this week to take a step toward improving any problematic situations?
Kaitlin Foster: Asking for help can be overwhelming. Mm-hmm. And so just doing that initial assessment of like, what do I need help with? 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: Do I need help with? Housing. Do I need help with finances? Is it something that is mental health related, or am I just, am I lonely? 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And I need to find friends. So doing that self-evaluation or taking inventory of what are some things that I really could benefit from having an outside person come in and provide some support or [00:36:00] assistance.
And then reaching out. Eileen talked about their senior line. Yeah. That's just a very broad resource, um, for people that are needing help with something. 
Chris Posey: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And may not know exactly what you need help with, but just calling and reaching out and saying like, things are not going well and I need someone to help me with X, Y, and Z.
Eileen Bradshaw: Mm-hmm. 
Kaitlin Foster: And making that phone call can make a huge difference 
Eileen Bradshaw: because it doesn't have to be. Even a weighty conversation. So if you are at lunch with your stepmother, like, okay, happy new Year. What do we think? What would make this year better than last year? Mm-hmm. And there may not be any big issues, but if there are, they might bubble up in that conversation.
Mm-hmm. So just, you know, I think when you say what can, what's one small step? I love the self-assessment. And then if you're talking about how do you support somebody else, you're already doing it making. A coffee date or a lunch date with somebody and just having that, what, what could be better and how can we make it that way?
Chris Posey: Yeah. So it comes full circle. Why are we, [00:37:00] why is this conversation important now? And it's, it's a great time to take these steps that you two are, are talking about. This has been great and as I have been listening to you all, I'm thinking. Who needs to hear this, who needs to be targeted with this message?
I think that in the past, I would think to myself, well, my stepmother needs to hear this message. And as we've talked, I. I've realized, Noah, I need to hear this message. This is for me. Mm-hmm. And so I think this is a really great conversation, especially for, for people who, who are caregivers or who have parents or relatives or whatever, who may be getting a little older.
I am, uh, really glad that you all could be here with us to share this. So anything else before we wrap up today? Did I miss anything? Did I forget anything? 
Tom Taylor: Chris? I couldn't agree with you more. I was just listening like, oh my gosh. Who are the seniors in my life? Mm-hmm. Older adults. Besides my mom and stepdad that I need to reach out to and just say thank you.
We talk about caregivers [00:38:00] and this senior population, this older adult population is cared for us mm-hmm. As we have grown up and come into the, the working world and turnabout is more than fair play. Mm-hmm. And so it just, we, we, I It's amazing that we forget that sometimes. Yeah. So, yeah. 
Eileen Bradshaw: And also I love that lens.
How can we. Make it better for people. Maybe we're not their caregiver, but they're in our lives and, but turning the lens back on ourselves, I'm not gonna ask anybody at the table how old they are. I am 62 and. What are the things I can be doing now mm-hmm. As I am aging, that set me up for success. So the message is to Chris, the caregiver, but it also could be to Chris, the 55-year-old.
Chris Posey: First 
Eileen Bradshaw: she was getting older. Yeah. Right, right. So, um, because it's a process right. It's not a switch. Yeah. And so what are we doing today to make our aging years better? Yeah. If you start earlier, making those plans and thoughts Yeah. And good habits that, you know, 
Tom Taylor: that's a great point. We do that with our [00:39:00] finances or hope to 
Eileen Bradshaw: Yes.
Tom Taylor: Why wouldn't we do that with, you know, 
Eileen Bradshaw: exactly our 
Tom Taylor: mental 
Chris Posey: health, 
Tom Taylor: how our, with with the transition in life. Mm-hmm. The second chance that we talked about earlier. Mm-hmm. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Redeployment. 
Tom Taylor: Redeployment. I try. 
Chris Posey: All right. Well, thanks everyone for being here today. Appreciate it. 
Eileen Bradshaw: Thanks for having us. Thank you. 
Chris Posey: Yeah.
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