Ep. 6 - Youth and Philanthropy

Lynne and Louise kick off this episode of Raise & Shine The Podcast with exciting news before diving into a lively discussion about the incredible value youth volunteers bring to nonprofits - and how organizations can both attract and keep them engaged.

What’s Inside:
Hear personal stories from Lynne and Louise about their early days in philanthropy and what first sparked their passion for giving back. Youth volunteer Parsa Moradi features in the conversation and reveals why young people step up to volunteer, what truly draws them in, and how charities can create experiences that make them want to stay.

Why Listen:
If you work with youth - or want to - this episode is packed with insights and practical tips. Discover how personal connection, social media, and post‑COVID fears shape youth engagement today. Learn strategies for creating a volunteer experience that’s social, meaningful, and impactful, and find out how supporting youth volunteers can even inspire donor families to give more deeply.

About Raise & Shine The Podcast

Welcome to Raise & Shine where every episode features a donor's voice - get fundraising insights right from the source. Hear what donors think, feel and say with cohosts Lynne Boardman and Louise Campbell. Lynne is Managing Director at Harvey McKinnon Associates and Louise is Vice President at Lions Gate Hospital Foundation.

Together they have 40 years of fundraising experience.

Thank you so much to Harvey McKinnon and Harvey McKinnon Associates for generously sponsoring this episode.

Sincerest thanks to episode producer, Lucy Campbell, for making the magic happen behind the scenes, and a shoutout to Scott Switzer for our signature Raise & Shine tune.

Thank you for listening! Please join us on Linked In and Instagram. 

Transcript

ep-6-youth-and-philanthropy

Intro: [00:00:00] This is Raise and Shine, the podcast where you can hear the voice of donors through conversations about things that matter in fundraising.

Louise: Welcome to Raise and Shine. 

Intro: I'm Louise Campbell. I'm Lynne Boardman. Let's get our conversation started. 

Louise: So Lynne, we had some exciting news this week.

Lynne: We did. Louise just told me some exciting news we want to share with our listeners about our fledgling podcast. 

Louise: So first of all, we want to thank everybody who listens to us.

Louise: And thanks to you, we had an amazing …

Lynne: 500! 

Louise: 500 downloads. So thank you all so much. We just hope we're spreading a little bit of information about fundraising and, 

Lynne: and cheer and perspective, and we're all in this together. Let's share. Knowledge 

Louise: Exactly. 

Lynne: And talk tips. 

Louise: Exactly. Which brings us to today, Lynne. 

Lynne: Yes.

Louise: So we're so excited. We're talking about youth and philanthropy 

Lynne: and when we started chatting about [00:01:00] this, we had some reminiscing to do. Because as people may know, Louise and I have known each other since we were five years old. And one of our formative experiences way back then has probably planted the seeds of our careers actually in a lot of what we're doing here today.

Lynne: Because we were on this topic of youth philanthropy, we were like, where did we start? Where did we get this? And we realized that you and I probably both learned philanthropy and volunteerism at home. We both were taken to church for lots of our young lives where we would learn a bit about that.

Louise: And we saw our moms go around in the neighborhood for Cancer, March of Dimes and the daffodil campaign. Our moms would go door to door and they would ask for donations. So we've been exposed to it from early on.

Lynne: And the one that we remember as much, I think is our little careers in brownies and guys, 

Louise: of course, 21st. Brownie Pack

Lynne: 21st Brownie pack Fairy right here. Louise, what were you? 

Louise: I think I was a Pixie, 

Lynne: So there was lots of [00:02:00] dancing around toad stools 

Louise: And so from the age of five or six, a great grounding 

Lynne: And the Trick or Treat for Unicef, all of that.

Lynne: Yes. There was like such a, at the time anyway, there was such a basis in the community of teaching kids to care about each other and care about the community 

Louise: and give back. 

Lynne: Yeah. And so that kind of led us to thinking how does that look today and what's inspiring the youth of today to volunteer and to give and the fascinating connection between volunteers and donors.

Lynne: So Louise, you found someone fabulous to talk to about this? 

Louise: Yes. I found Parsa Muradi and he is a third year biomedical physiology student at SFU, who hopes to pursue medicine after his undergrad. He has volunteered with Lionsgate Hospital Foundation's youth Committee for the past three years, and we've been very grateful for his contribution.

Louise: He has been involved [00:03:00] also with the Zajac Ranch, which for those of you who aren't familiar, it's a fully inclusive summer camp where everything is accessible for children with medical conditions and disabilities. So he's had some significant experience with a couple of different charities. He says that nonprofits and volunteering are a cornerstone of him as a person.

Louise: And so we're talking about youth today in their teens, in their early twenties. I think we're covering basically Gen Z. They don't have a lot of money to donate at this point in their lives. But what they do have is their time and their talent from our perspective at the foundation, their youthful energy.

Louise: And we were talking about that's so important. 

Lynne: Yeah. And it, and the different perspectives. Much as we would hate to admit it, some of us can over time get a little bit grounded in our own experiences and our own ways of doing things. So it's quite fabulous to have people come in and shake that up a little bit.

Louise: Of course. And their contribution on digital platforms is, we can't value that enough. [00:04:00] 

Lynne: Strategically also if we can recruit and inspire youth volunteers and keep them and show them the impact of their work and show them the impact of our organizations, they are the people who eventually, when they do finish university and get their jobs, will be like, of course I want to give $20 a month of my salary to Oxfam, or Amnesty, or Lionsgate Hospital. They will naturally transition into donors. If we do a great job of keeping them and stewarding them, then of course, that's one of the themes we always talk about is stewarding people.

Lynne: So let's do that with our youth volunteers as much as with our donors. 

Louise: Yes, absolutely. Give them a positive experience and then our organization would hold a special place in their heart. Like you always say what's near and dear to your heart. 

Lynne: Yeah, that's right. 

Louise: I love your saying when you say that.

Lynne: It’s 100% plagiarized but thank you.

Louise: And I guess just one thing to keep in mind for all the organizations out there. We don't want any volunteer, especially our youth volunteers to [00:05:00] feel like cheap labor. 

Louise: and that circles back to you what you were saying about a positive experience and giving them recognition.

Louise: So maybe we'll just start out with hearing from Parsa about what motivates him to volunteer 

Parsa Moradi: Yeah, I think, the first, and at most it's that I want to be able to give back to the community.

Parsa Moradi: I've been fortunate enough to live in North Van for more than half of my life. And to be able to give back to the community that I've lived in is, it's very important for me. I think it's also meeting the people who volunteer and work at these non-profits. It's also very important I think individuals that, are like-minded to myself and having those chats.

Parsa Moradi: Those valuable conversations with them and their admirations have been very good. So a couple of reasons I think those have to be included and yeah, very excited to continue working with non-profits. I think it's very good. 

Louise: And let's talk about practical reasons.

Parsa Moradi: Yeah. 

Louise: So what about. Boosting your CV, does it help? 

Parsa Moradi: I think so, absolutely. I like to say I'm just doing it just to do it. Of course I am, but at the end of the day it's good to get these experiences, under your wing and I think it's very important. I think it's also some of these non-profits it's very good because you get to experience perhaps a preview of what a day in the life of a professional that, or profession that you'd like to pursue in the future. So gets those behind the scenes and of your favorite events or favorite charities. And the work that you do. You get to see those, behind the scenes and the work that goes to, making an event as good as it is and as impact, as impactful as it is.

Parsa Moradi: So for sure the CV’s have to be with it. But yeah, I think the work is above all. 

Louise: That was a really good point that Parsa made about getting a glimpse behind a profession and getting access to people in a profession that you might be interested in getting into yourself. So that's something that nonprofit charities can offer to their youth Volunteers.

Louise: Also a different perspective, a different environment other than a school environment, I think is very valuable to these kids to have just a professional environment and it is a good link to that next step.

Lynne: So you leave school and you go out into the world and you previously have no knowledge of what it's like to work in an office or work in a banking atmosphere or a store or any of those things.

Lynne: Besides like co-ops and internships, this is an incredible way to test the waters of a few different types of things you might be interested in and the things within it, within a charity or a nonprofit or an organization, you could volunteer in the finance department to have a little bit of a dabble into finance.

Lynne: Fundraising, marketing. 

Louise: Exactly. And then in all of that, what they're doing is they're actually interacting with people. Yeah. They're having in-person huge interaction.  

Louise: While I had Parsa, I was so interested in just getting into the psyche of a [00:08:00] youth so we could understand what we're dealing with here because of the impact on COVID and personal interaction with youth.

Louise: So let's listen to what he had to say about that. 

Parsa Moradi: Those COVID years really did take a turn on the youth as it did everyone, but especially the youth in terms of you see them, throughout high school, that's where you build your social skills. But then having that year or two taken away due to COVID, you're not developing those social skills.

Parsa Moradi: And then you rely more on outside, you feel the only way I can keep up with something is through social media. The only way I can follow someone it's through social media, not through hanging out or going to this event or that event is, all is done through social media.

Parsa Moradi: And social media of course has its benefits. I think we're consuming information like no other way. But I think the social aspect of it, I think talking to a lot of different youth, it's really had a big impact on how outgoing they are and how engaged they are with something that's happening outside you.[00:09:00] 

Parsa Moradi: See if you give youth a choice of an in-person meeting or a Zoom meeting I think almost 9 out of 10 will take a Zoom meeting. Not just because of the convenience. They'll still take a zoom because just that in-person part of it and, sitting across from someone as I am right now - it seems almost scary because they haven't had that chances to develop those skills as much as, perhaps I have or other people have. So I think it's unfortunately have had a better of a better of an impact on youth and their social skills. 

Lynne: This, Louise, is such a huge thing to me. I have so many opinions on it and so many concerns about it, which I know you do too.

Lynne: I think it was fascinating when he said, just this talking in person could be scary to many people of his generation and his time in life. And I think you and I have both noticed or heard about, whether it's with our kids, whether it's with, my clients, sometimes your foundation, sometimes that there is real [00:10:00] reticence and concern and nervousness around personal interaction. 

Lynne: I do have many clients who are noticing it, particularly with their fundraisers, their younger fundraisers who are expected to do phone calls and build personal relationships with major donors and maybe mid-level donors, and trying to find people who are comfortable with people again.

Louise: Exactly, 

Lynne: and I think that the mixture of COVID plus the kind of digital generation, if you will, or the iPhones and the fact that you can be, have a big social night out sitting in your room on your, on Snapchat or whatever. 

Lynne: I think that it has created quite a group of people who are not as comfortable picking up the phone and talking one-on-one and in personal interactions as we all learned to be in the past.

Lynne: So I hadn't thought before, but I completely agree with him that volunteering and being involved in these kinds of events is so good for them because they're going to be expected to be people-people.

Louise: That's a good one. Whether it's selling raffle tickets. Or registering someone at an [00:11:00] event or whatever it might be, they get that exposure to people. And it gives them confidence. Yeah. And that is so important when they're moving forward in their professional development. 

Lynne: See, the other part of that I want to talk about is I do have such concerns, and I know more and more people do, and the psychologists do, and the mindful CEOs do, of the impact of working from home and hybrid working a little bit, the impact of working from home on the people who have just graduated. 

Lynne: It is so isolating. 

Lynne: And I know that, when surveyed people want to work from home because it's comfortable and that might not have an isolating impact on people like you and me who have kids, older kids, you form those villages right through your kids sometimes. We already have our villages. And also if you grew up in the same place.

Lynne: But for a lot of us, back in our twenties we made our really important relationships and connections through work and at work. 

Louise: Absolutely. 

Lynne: But now we're graduating these young 20 year olds who are working from home, or they're mandated to go back a couple days a week, but no one else is really [00:12:00] there when they are back in the office, because everybody's coming back at different times. So not to debate the whole mandated back to work thing, but there's such concerns about their isolation and the impact on their mental health. So doing this kind of volunteering, even after their schooling is finished, could be a way to mitigate that isolation if their jobs are to work from home. 

Lynne: This way they can actually get that human connection that we're really concerned they're not getting anymore. 

Louise: Yes. And that they're learning to be people-people again. Which is so important. 

Louise: Oh, I could get into that WFH thing a little bit, but maybe we'll just move on. Let's hear from Parsa about how charities can attract youth and also retain them.

Parsa Moradi: I think you have got to meet youth where they are and that's on social media. I think you have got to have a strong social media team and be putting a lot of content out there to get the youth engaged and to let them know, hey, here is this cool nonprofit that's going on and they do this amazing work.

Parsa Moradi: And the youth are really interested in that. [00:13:00] And the youth want to do good work and they're always excited and interested in new things. So grabbing their attention and, letting them know, hey. There's just a lot of good work going on over here. You should come over here, you should help, volunteer and be part of this.

Parsa Moradi: And I think, that's how you attract them. Then it's a matter of how do you keep them. That's I think even a more important part of it is I think you keep them by giving them a sense of responsibility. And that sense of responsibility isn't just by the work you assign, but maybe by the role and by the title that you assigned.

Parsa Moradi: You let them know - you are going to see progression. You're doing something to see an impact. And that impact also should be on your CV as well. You want to see if you're applying to university or if you're applying to jobs they want to see you moving up the ladder and stuff.

Parsa Moradi: And you want to see that. Seeing that progression and feeling like, you're being heard and you are being valued. And that is by, giving you more responsibilities and bigger roles and new titles and stuff. I think [00:14:00] that's how you keep them and that's how you keep them, having a big pride in their work.

Parsa Moradi: They're like, I'm making a real impact. I'm moving up the ladder. I'm doing something very important. That's how you keep them going. And I think that's what kept me going for four years now. I think being able to see the impact and also moving up in, in roles and responsibilities as well. 

Lynne: That was a lot of good insight into how we can all attract and keep youth volunteers and steward them into donors.

Lynne: How do you do that at your Foundation at the hospital, Louise?

Louise: So we have a youth committee. We actually, we do meet them where they are, Lynne, we appeal to youth on social media. We actually had members of our youth committee create posts for social 

Lynne: Love that, 

Louise: So it's using their voice. Of course, we're overseeing it.

Louise: Yeah. So it's. It's on brand, but having them use their voice and 

Lynne: and their networks maybe a little. 

Louise: Yeah, absolutely. So we actually have our youth committee having their own Facebook group. They have their own Instagram account, so they're posting themselves, which really [00:15:00] helps with reaching others. We also collaborate with schools and the school districts, and we get out to the counselors there and try to encourage involvement.

Louise: Something else that Parsa talked about was giving them tasks, roles, titles, all of this kind of thing, and. This is what's so important. So we try to offer roles for all the different kids so that it's matching their skills, their interest, their experience. 

Louise: Our youth committee is actually divided into eight different departments, and it's very structured. And we have different departments for lots of different things, trying to appeal to their different interests. So things like design and communications creates our branding and promotional material. So that's one department. We have a digital promotion managing all the social media and the online campaigns.

Louise: We even have a logistics department that coordinate events, set up, scheduling, venue needs. So anyone who's interested in that can take that on board. 

Lynne: Tangible, meaty things that you're asking them to contribute to. I [00:16:00] love that. Can you imagine - you can have that on your cv, but also you then have the knowledge of running digital recruitment campaign 

Louise: and that would be impressive.

Louise: Yeah. We also have an accounting and finance department, so to your point. Earlier about getting involved in finance. Yeah. That is if you're interested in business, so it can appeal to lots of different companies. 

Lynne: Yes, just look, like you just pointed out, you and I both hire people, and if we have two resumes and they're equal in terms of education and marks and interests and personalities, but one person actually has done a bunch of tangible work as well, and they know how to work in a team and that they know how to meet a deadline, of course we’re going to hire that person. 

Louise: Yes. The other thing that we offer is this whole idea of skill and leadership development. So helping them progress. As Parsa talks about people looking at your CV, they want to see you progress up the ladder. 

Louise: And that is something that we are able to offer.

Louise: We have basically a framework of mentorship for our youth committee. So we have the older kids mentoring the younger kids and helping them learn how to do all these different jobs that will go into hosting, event [00:17:00] fundraising events and different fundraising initiatives that they come up with. We also actually give them the opportunity to decide what they might do with oversight, of course, but it's that whole sense of responsibility and that they can own this.

Louise: Just jumping back to the progression of the ladder, because I loved how Parsa phrased that we have everyone coming on board as a member of our youth committee. They're a member at large, and after a year they can be considered for a junior position if they're in grade nine or above. And then as they progress further, grade 10 and above and with two years of service, they can become a Senior executive team member 

Lynne: which looks lovely on a resume 

Louise: And they're always progressing like Parsa mentioned.  

Lynne: And the confidence that gives to people when they've seen themselves progress because they've worked hard and they've been part of this thing.

Louise: Absolutely. Yeah. 

Lynne: Do we want to talk a little bit more about stewardship and recognition? Did you want to talk a little bit about how you recognize and keep these volunteers and donors? 

Louise: Yeah. In addition to helping them develop their skills and leadership, that is [00:18:00] so important to retain youth volunteers and it's for their parents as well.

Louise: I think having something tangible really makes a difference. So kids need volunteer hours, so we're always writing letters to confirm their volunteer hours for the year. We also provide certificates for those involved in our youth committee. We have youth awards. So some get trophies who are more heavily involved and are great fundraisers.

Lynne: You just made me remember something, which is, I wonder if you also do this, nominate some of your youth volunteers. Harvey McKinnon Associates for many years has sponsored the youth in fundraising or youth philanthropists or youth volunteer award for various AFP chapters. I'm thinking the golden horseshoe for sure.

Louise: Yes. 

Lynne: And then I think when an organization is the one that nominates that would really build that relationship and glue that relationship. 

Louise: Absolutely. And what you're doing is you're building a relationship, not with the youth, but with their whole family - which is always important.

Louise: And that is a big part of our youth committee. We [00:19:00] involve the whole family. I just want to talk about your AFP example.  We also nominate our youth who are deserving with community awards from our local municipalities. 

Louise: District of West Vancouver, district of North Vancouver, city of North Vancouver. They all have youth awards. 

Louise: So that's something that everyone can look out for to nominate their youth volunteers for. 

Louise: That’s great. Just look at your local community and there will be some sort of level of government or media that is giving a youth award. 

Lynne: I know some hospital foundations and others will take out an ad at the end of the year acknowledging or putting in the annual report, acknowledging their major donors, their mid-level donors, their legacy circle, et cetera.

Lynne: I just advocate that these guys also be on that list because they're 100% the philanthropist of the future. 

Louise: I'm sure there's a youth volunteer day out there, Lynne, and there must be and to do an ad with your big group. 

Lynne: Yeah, and obviously lots of media will give cut prices or free space, etc for that kind of thing.

Louise: I just wanted to jump back because we were [00:20:00] talking about the involvement of family. 

Louise: And I wanted to say that we had actually an info meeting about our youth committee in September just to try to recruit new people. And so there were posts about it that the existing committee members did. We actually had almost 100 people attend.

Louise: And so that was youth and their parents. Nice. It is a whole family endeavor. Because let's face it, who's driving them? 

Lynne: You're driving them there and back and you're reminding them 

Louise: That's just something to remember that you are building a fundraising relationship with an entire family.

Lynne: And the Machiavellian fundraiser in me knows that donor recruitment's getting harder and harder. We can't just rely on the old ways that we used to recruit new donors. Inspiring people through their kids is a fantastic idea. Looking back on all the fabulous things that Parsa said and his reflections, what would you say for you are the sort of highlights or key takeaways for organizations looking to recruit and retain [00:21:00] youth volunteers within the fundraising department?

Louise: Lynne, I think it, it's really key to create a positive experience for them, and there's a few ways any organization can do that. One is through creating a supportive environment, so one where the kids feel they can ask questions, where they're going to get the information they need to continue with their tasks and their roles.

Louise: We're hosting a Lunar New Year celebration, which many of them are excited about. We're hosting a Norooz celebration. So many of them are excited about that as well. Another important aspect is. Just that whole social interaction piece that we touched on. 

Lynne: Social connection and confidence building.

Louise: Realize that this is an opportunity for them to increase their social circles and like you said, their confidence.

Lynne: If anyone's listening who's a parent of a late teenager, early 20, I think that's a key point to see if you can get your kid involved with this kind of thing. Yes, we have this opportunity that there's the universities and the high schools demand a certain number of volunteer hours.

Lynne: And it's a huge [00:22:00] opportunity. Because a lot of people are watching their kids still have the effects of quite a lot of isolation. 

Lynne: And I'm wondering how is this person going to fit into a busy human interaction workplace? So I think you're nudging your kids towards this little great piece of parenting.

Louise: Absolutely. Another area that is important for organizations to focus on is clear communication. So I had mentioned about different roles and departments on our youth committee and it's all about expectation management. So they need to know what you're expecting of them. We set out our meeting schedule for youth committee in September so they know the dates for the whole year.  

Louise: They also know how many hours are expected of them to get a certificate. They know what's expected of them to progress with a new title. 

Lynne: I love. One of my favorite phrases is in terms of management is “unexpressed expectations are premeditated resentments.” 

Louise: I like that. 

Lynne: So checking in with yourself about what your expectations actually are and making sure you've very [00:23:00] clearly communicated them and then checking in that people have heard them and understood them correctly, right?

Louise: Yes, exactly. 

Louise: And I think I mentioned to you that at the information meeting we had for our youth committee in September, I actually was speaking about promotion and demotion.

Lynne: Very feisty. I love it. Yes. Very clear.

Lynne: And people respond to you being very clear. Maybe it's taken back a little bit at first, but they then know, and I think we meet, it's possible that a lot of organizations could take that advice to higher levels of management, more organically and holistically. 

Louise: And just one last little thing.

Louise: Just that whole recognition piece. Yeah. To retain your youth volunteers Yeah. Is very important. 

Lynne: I think part of that is also that making sure that they have meaningful work, which you talked about right from the outset. So it's not cheap labor. Yeah. We all need people for sure to close envelopes and stuff envelopes.

Lynne: But making sure that is interspersed with work that is meaningful to them. And then also I think so important that they [00:24:00] see how these different tasks that they're doing feed into the impact as a whole. So we talked about the surgeon comes and chats for 10 minutes, but they can talk about the fact that this piece of equipment that you helped us raise money for just saved the life of this child.

Louise: Absolutely. 

Lynne: That's huge. 

Louise: Very important that they know that what they're doing is having impact. Parsa provides some great insight into this, Lynne. 

Parsa Moradi: Yeah, I think one of my most memorable events was from a recent walkathon. And what made it so memorable was just seeing the huge turnout that we had and knowing then, what an impact that is making on the community and things, the community come together for such a great cause.

Parsa Moradi: And that was very important for me. And being involved in that and being able to help out facilitate that, that event was was very memorable for me. And it's it's been it's been something that I've done for a few years now. I've volunteered at this event for a few years and seeing it grow every single time or every single year was, so important for me.

Parsa Moradi: Yeah, [00:25:00] and it made me, made me really feel proud and feel part of the community. 

Lynne: I love how Parsa talks about the passion for the community and the passion for the cause. And while he was talking about that, I was thinking back again to our, our youthful days. Louise. 

Louise: Yes. 

Lynne: And I think it's interesting how people pick where they're gonna volunteer.

Lynne: So you and I, after we finished dancing around the toadstool and grew up a little bit more, we shared some really good volunteer experiences. 

Louise: Yes. 

Lynne: And it's interesting to, again, to think about what we chose. I think our earliest was actually Cedar View Lodge at the senior center, right? Yes. We were in there decorating for Christmas and making popcorn and reading to the residents. 

I think we did that because we did, both of us have a lot of concern and love for our elders and for seniors. 

Louise: Yes. 

Lynne: But then we went on to the Downtown East Side Women's Center many years later, 

Louise: we ventured across the bridge. 

Lynne: Yes. 

Louise: And that was an eye opener for us. 

Lynne: That was [00:26:00] a big eyeopener. And I worked a little bit for a women's shelter. 

And then as Parsa said, it’s about giving back but it can also be about boosting your CV’s. So that’s part of how you pick.

Louise: we were launching our careers and we wanted to have a little bit more substance.

Lynne: We came across the Volunteer Grandparents of BC.

Lynne: Yes. And again, like if they reached out to me now, I would certainly become a donor because we had that amazing experience 

Louise: Soft spot in your heart, right? 

Lynne: They are fabulous. Yeah. What a great organization.

Lynne: Yeah, matching up people who don't have grandkids or far away from their grandkids with kids who don't have grandparents. 

Louise: Absolutely. 

Lynne: Beautiful, beautiful organization. So I do recall donning a mascot outfit and walking in the PNE parade representing volunteer grandparents.

Louise: I can look up that photo and we'll be posting it on our page. Oh, that's great Lynne. 

Lynne: Anyway, we just want to extend our thanks of course to Parsa because that was lovely of him to sit down and talk about so many things, not just the tangibles but the intangibles a bit too, like social connection and isolation and the impacts of COVID.

Lynne: I think that was really insightful. I appreciate him sharing all that. 

Louise: Thank you Parsa so much and thank you for continuing to volunteer. We really appreciate it. 

Intro: Thanks for joining us for another episode of Raise and Shine the podcast. For more information and episodes, visit Raise and Shine on LinkedIn or subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts.

Intro: We'd like to thank our sponsor, Harvey McKinnon, the fundraising consultancy raising millions of dollars for charities across Canada and the us. Visit harveymckinnon.com for more information.