Leading with Heart: Helena Trench on Building Inclusive School Communities

Join us for a heartwarming and insightful conversation with Helena Trench, the inspiring Principal of Powerstown Educate Together National School in Dublin 15. Helena's journey to school leadership has been fuelled by a passion for inclusive education and a love for working with children. In this episode, Helena shares stories of building a vibrant school community from the ground up, celebrating the unique blend of traditions and opportunities at newer schools like Powerstown ETNS.
 
 Listen as she discusses the evolving nature of the teaching profession and offers a candid reflection on the challenges educators face, particularly in supporting students with autism and disabilities, and how she advocates for better national strategies to support these needs.
 
 Throughout our conversation, Helena's commitment to creating a strengths-based school environment is unmistakable. She champions the importance of recognising and nurturing each child's capabilities, fostering a neuro-affirmative space where all can thrive. Helena's insights remind us of the impact of educators who adopt a nurturing and trauma-informed mindset, demonstrating the profound effect of building strong, supportive relationships within a school community. 

Join us for this heartfelt episode as we dive into the realities, joys, and aspirations of school leadership and the unwavering dedication of fearless educators like Helena Trench.

Don’t forget to like and subscribe, leave us a review and share it with colleagues and friends! Your feedback informs the show. 

You can follow us across our social media channels – 

Instagram

Twitter

LinkedIn

Facebook

If you have any thoughts on our episodes, or suggestions for future topics, email Zita at zrobinson@dwec.ie 
Or take a minute to give us your feedback: Listener Feedback 

 Oh – and don’t forget to book that CPD – dwec.ie  

 Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original, produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre produced by Zita Robinson. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:18

Fáilte stach and welcome to the Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, Alton MacMahona. This podcast is brought to you by Dublin West Education Support Centre. We're located on the grounds of TUD Talla, serving and supporting the school communities of West Dublin and beyond. Welcome to season three of Teachers Themselves. Episodes this season feature some great conversations with the passionate educators who contribute to your lives as educators and school leaders. These are people who have dedicated their careers to improving the educational outcomes of children and to enriching the education system.

Speaker 2 0:53

That's something that I would even say at every staff meeting. This is our school. It belongs to every teacher, every A&A, every parent, every child. Everyone has the opportunity to put their stamp on it and the personality to see in the way we do things, not just in policy, but in the decor or in the events that we run or in the outdoor extracurricular activities. We have that because it's our school for everyone, within the Power of Sound community. If you believe in it and you want something to happen, work with us and it can come to reality. I think that's what makes us the team that is thriving today.

Speaker 1 1:23

You're very, very welcome to this episode of the Teachers Themselves podcast. Joining me today I have a guest some of you will know very, very well, particularly if you have an interest in inclusive education. I'm joined by Helena Trench. Helena is Principal at Powerstown Educate Together National School in Dublin 15. And Helena is well known to us here in Dublin West Education Centre because she's done some great work with us in promoting our presence, I suppose, on that side of our catchment area in Dublin 15, and we're delighted to work with Helena and our great team in Powerstown and further afield in Dublin 15. So many many thanks, helena. How's September going for you?

Speaker 2 2:13

Oh, you know yourself, September is always busy. We had an extra busy start to the year because we had the Almonds man Lounge planned for places two years on here with us last week and we had AWS and community sponsoring Steppenstones Forest last week as well, which was a nice busy start to the year. And then a lovely visit by our Minister for Finance, Jack Chambers, yesterday, just to make a busy September that little bit more exciting here in Paris Did he bring his checkbook, Helena.

Speaker 2 2:37

We're trying to give him ideas how to spend that 14 billion. The six-thousand kids give him plenty of scope to go around with.

Speaker 1 2:43

Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Anyway, look, helena, thanks for coming and agreeing to be on the podcast. Let's appreciate it. It's a busy time for you. You're a busy person, but if we can just draw a breath and we'll start, I suppose, at the start. Where are you from, helena?

Speaker 2 2:59

I'm from Portlaoise, born and raised down there. Yeah, I'm the only one who left Portlaoise and never came back.

Speaker 1 3:07

My other three sisters went back home as soon as they finished college, did they? Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 3:10

It's the draw of home. The draw of home Never got it. I was happy. Once I got to Dublin, I was happy to stay, got a job, I went to Frebble so we did the fourth year in Trinity.

Speaker 1 3:27

So soon as I finished to get the fourth year done and just found my niche, found a good group of friends from college and just really enjoyed the Dublin life so never went back. Do you think that fourth year in college and going into Trinity like that might have been a factor and staying in Dublin, as opposed to your, your sisters or your, your friends or whoever might have gone back home? Because I know a lot of the ones who were in college with me I was in Pats and straight back home but some stayed in. You know what was the factor.

Speaker 2 3:45

I definitely think it was that because when I was looking for a job back then it was following advertisements from the Irish Independent and scoping and sending TVs by post to all hundreds of schools looking for a job back then. So when I was looking for a job, access to Trinity was important. So that's how I ended up working in the inner city in Dublin when I came first. So it was walking distance from Halston Street to Trinity every Monday afternoon. So that was one of the deciding factors for where I started work first and definitely was why I didn't go home after I finished college for sure.

Speaker 1 4:15

Fair enough, and tell me, did you always want to be a teacher, or was it just something you fell into?

Speaker 2 4:21

I always worked with kids so, like when I was in secondary school, portleash was always great for basketball. Portleish Panthers always have a name across the country for playing good basketball. So I was always involved with coaching the younger kids and stuff about basketball. Pat Critchley, the coach downtown, got me involved with all the youth teams even when I was in secondary school and when I was in college, bringing kids from Portleish up to Dublin playing in the Dublin League every week, and then I was involved in Special Olympics a wee bit when I was in secondary school as well and helped set up. I was part of the kind of group of young people who were involved with the adults setting the up and port leash back in the day as well. So I suppose I was always involved working with kids. That it wasn't a million miles away, I think. For a while I wanted to be an accountant, but I got enough points for teaching so I got that instead well, well, teaching's gain.

Speaker 1 5:04

It's a currency's loss.

Speaker 2 5:06

Ah, there you go. Exactly, I was like no, I don't think I can do that now.

Speaker 1 5:10

No, you're definitely in the teacher category. So anyway, I won't ask you what year you came out of college, but I know that in 2001,. You took up principalship in Powerstown 2011.

Speaker 2 5:20

Yep 2011,.

Speaker 1 5:21

Yep, Sorry 2011. You took a principal. Sorry, 2011,. You took a principal 10 years on me. So it was a fresh start, new school kicking off. Tell me about your path to school leadership there. What brought you to say I can do that?

Speaker 2 5:35

I think working in inner city Dublin was the real eye open for me, like where Georgetown was based, is you know side of food and veg markets. My dad was a guard in Portlaoise. The Central Criminal Court was across the road. Myself and my sister started college together, so us going to Dublin together. He was quite protective of us and then when he found out where my school was he was quite nervous because he used to do the guard escorts up and down to that courthouse all the time.

Speaker 2 5:59

Kind of starting off there in George's Hill was a fabulous start for me. I think in my career I worked with an amazing group of people in there. When I was in there I also did homeschool liaison, which was an amazing kind of route in to see what life is like in the real world. You know, when you go around and knock on people's doors, get to know people, get to know kids, get to understand people's personal circumstances. That's a huge eye opener to see how the world actually really is.

Speaker 2 6:24

And in that role I obviously worked very closely with the principal at the time as well, who was a great mentor to me over the years and I suppose building on that relationship, working so closely with different teachers, principals, different community organizations and just seeing the benefit of everybody being on the same page and working together for the betterment of everybody. It really played off. So I think that was kind of a good stepping stone for it. And then one of my friends from George's Hill, sinead O'Mara, went and did homeschool liaison before I did and she got principalship firstly in a community national school and then she jumped ship to educate together and she was like, oh you know, you would actually really love this. Like this is a different ethos, a different way about doing things. It's right up what we in in relation to community and working together and parental involvement and democracy and everyone kind of working on the same page. So I think she kind of gave me a nudge and I just applied for a job and got lucky Right.

Speaker 1 7:17

And tell me this, before you mentioned the homeschool piece, there's those that would say that you know years spent as homeschool community liaison is the best training I get for principalship, because even more so than a deputy principal. Because, as you say, there you're getting the bigger picture of families, the community you're serving, what kind of baggage children bring to school and maybe why they present the way they present in school. You get to see, maybe, the effect teachers are having from the other side of the lens. It just gives you that broader picture of school life. Did you find that you learned an awful lot from that experience that you brought to principalship and, if so, what did you bring?

Speaker 2 7:55

Oh, I definitely learned a huge amount. I think every teacher in the country should do it. I think you know, even if you look at, say, back 15 years ago when I was doing that job, and how different parents' experience of education was then, especially parents in inner city Dublin you know there was a huge school dropout or school non-completion I suppose really in the area for the parents of the children who were in the school. I suppose the experiences they've had. O'devney Gardens was still standing back then. A lot of our parents were there. Our parents were over in Oliver Bond, kevin Barry Flats.

Speaker 2 8:26

Like a lot of our parents lived in quite limited accommodation circumstances but also the resources and facilities in the area were quite limited for them and for other families.

Speaker 2 8:36

So I think just knocking around and actually just listening to people and just being a supportive person so when I used to go to meetings I'd be there as an advocate for the parents and supporting the parents you know you start off, you're not going to parents' door, they leave you at the door.

Speaker 2 8:48

You might eventually get to the sitting room and if you get into the kitchen and have a cup of tea at the counter, then you know you have a relationship with them and you're working with them.

Speaker 2 8:55

I think, just getting to know the parents and building a trusting relationship with them, which a lot of our parents didn't have with the school system back then and having that so you know if parents need a support, going to a meeting with the principal because their child was finding school difficult, or if a child was getting in trouble because the teacher didn't understand why the child wasn't getting their homework done every day, or if a child had no lunch, what the reasons were behind that, and just making sure the teachers were giving these kids the accommodations that they needed.

Speaker 2 9:24

Because I suppose if you're looking at education 20 years ago, it's come on a huge amount since. You know, schools were a very different place back then for inclusion, for children with additional needs, for, you know, even social isolation for families. They're just making sure that parents were listened to and they were heard, and by me working in the community and owning their resources and the agencies that parents can access and supporting parents go to these appointments and get to know these people that could support them in other ways outside what I could do, that enabled their child to access the school system better as well.

Speaker 1 9:57

Yeah, I see you're becoming a part of their channel into officialdom. I suppose it. It reminds me always the homeschool liaison and you talked about it there. Once you get the cup of tea it reminds me of. You know that scene in Erin Brockovich when she's bringing the solicitor, the lawyer, around to the houses and there's a bit of business and he says, okay, let's go. And she offers him a cup of coffee and he goes no, we've got to go.

Speaker 2 10:20

And Erin Brockovich says, stay, we got to go and Aaron Brockett would say, stay for the cup of coffee, and I think that's so important but it was.

Speaker 1 10:26

It is very important to sit down and have a cup of tea and you can't put a price on that and you can't bring that down to a measurable unit of outpour or work whatever you want to call it. That is so valuable and without it actually you're not going to get the rest.

Speaker 2 10:40

And, like, I think you just have to see people as people and treat them as a person. You're kind of way, and that's. If you can see people and not just see a job, then that makes us good at what we do. You know, you have to want to build a relationship, you have to want to get to know people, you have to have an open mind, you have to be willing to explore every possibility and not go in with go okay, I just have to tick a box because if we're doing that, we're not doing our jobs at all.

Speaker 1 11:04

And you mentioned there, helena, that your pal said to you oh God, you jump onto this here, you'll really like the ethos here and educate together and it's parental involvement and democratic, and that you know I came from a Catholic school background and I would say that you know we worked hard for parental involvement and democracy and what have you? What's different do you think?

Speaker 2 11:24

hard for parental involvement in democracy, and what have you?

Speaker 1 11:24

What's different, do you think I?

Establishing a School Community

Speaker 2 11:24

think I suppose a lot of the education at other schools kind of started up because parents wanted a choice within their school communities. Obviously, schools opened by government, demographics and stuff but the parent voice behind it was like OK, we want something different. I suppose if I look at the school I'm in now, we would have kids that represent 62 different countries, speak 57 different languages, speak every religion and no religions are present here within the school. Cultural differences they're my personality differences that are present in the school. I suppose it's just such a core part of what we do and what we live like. When you walk inside the front door of our school you see a map of the world and every country that our school families represent is marked on that map with hello you're welcome in that language, you know, and I suppose that's kind of the culture and the ethos that we've built up here. And when you see people walking to school, they see their country that their families are from, or they spot a language that they hear their mom speaking at home.

Speaker 2 12:17

I suppose there's something that kind of we've built with our school community from the ground up and parents led that project with us in the school.

Speaker 2 12:23

This was as a startup school. I think it's quite different when you look at catholic schools and when I worked in George's Hill it was set up by a person who was trained with one of the first presentation schools in Ireland at the time and have a big museum in the Focus Ireland building beside us to represent the history behind the school and it's amazing having a history of a school that's probably 150 year olds now, whereas my school is barely 14 years old and there's pros and cons to all that. But I suppose we got to build with our community. We're very representative of the Tyrolstown 100 community as a whole, whereas when you see some long-standing schools with that amount of history and tradition, that tradition kind of stays and some different countries or cultures might feel on the outskirts of that where with us there was all the parents all together. As Tyrolstown community grew, so did our school. I think that's what makes our school that little bit different.

Speaker 1 13:12

Okay. So you were saying, too, that the principal in George that he was a great or she was a great mentor to you. Was there a person in your life who you always said you know, I'm going to be like that person there. You know, that's the kind of, they're the values I want to bring to a school, that's the kind of energy I like to. You know, was there a person that you said, yes, this is why I want to do it?

Speaker 2 13:39

I don't think there was ever any kind of one person. I think I picked the best out of three or four people and put it all together when I was looking at, say, even my career trajectory, when I started off working in George's Hill and my dad was like, go to a nice outside Dublin school, and I was like no, this is where I want to go. My dad's sister was a teacher and she started work when she came to Dublin, first in St Gabriel's on Cowper Street. So I was like here, would you go talk to the old man and calm him down? He's having a little frenzy attack over here. Or the same thing. When I signed up to do homeschool liaison, he was like you're going to be knocking into people's doors in this area. You're only a young one, do you know what you're doing? Again, I was like could you go talk to dad and calm him down? So you know, I think I always kind of knew what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go. But I'd always seek advice and talk to people along the way and I think probably Mayor and Jean had a good input on that, especially when I when was younger and I think my interest in principalship kind of came. I suppose I just like doing things, I like learning new things, I like a new challenge.

Speaker 2 14:37

In George's Hill it was a growing school when I started. I got assistant principalship in my second year there, which was unheard of back then, but I suppose the school grew so much in a short space of time back in 2004. It was just one of those places where the inner city Dublin was being revived that I got an insight into taking things on. I was always big into after-school clubs and doing things and then obviously the homeschool liaison place linking in with the organizations. I was like, oh, I kind of like this. By getting these things in you can make a big difference. It's easier for the kids, it's easier for the school. You know, by having that kind of community base within the school building it makes life easier for everybody. So you know, by having that kind of community base within the school building it makes life easier for everybody.

Speaker 2 15:14

So I kind of always had that bit of energy to keep myself challenged every couple of years. And I suppose even when I was in George's Hill I think I was there four or five years I went back and did my master's in Trinity, just because I think every four or five years I like a challenge. And then after that I went and I moved school and then four or five or six years there went and had a family. So you're kind of like it's just showing an extra span in the works every now and again to keep myself busy. Like this year, I said, ok, let's go do the PhD, see what's going to happen with that. So I think I just like pushing myself along and just giving myself a challenge. I suppose really definitely.

Speaker 1 15:46

Knowing you were small a bit, Helena, from our interactions. What strikes me is that you're actually fearless, and one of the traits of people who are fearless is they don't fear failure. It appears to me, when you're telling that story there, that you try these new things. You know failure doesn't come into it. No-transcript. I'll give that a go, and I suppose that's how you've achieved so much. And if I'm right now, what do you think developed that in you as a person because most people would love to have that in their armor that they would have a little bit less fear, a little bit more God, I'll give that a go. How did you develop that? Or were you just born that way?

Speaker 2 16:39

Oh, I think I'd be petrified of plenty of things. Like you know, even school this year we said we'd do a skydive to raise money for the school. No way do jump out of a plane whatsoever to the school. Lead 10 grand. We definitely do. So come on, if I put my name to it and someone pushes me, I've jumped someone else to hold in the parachute. It'll be fine. And I've fallen on my face plenty of times and I've messed up plenty of times.

Speaker 2 17:00

I think my big thing is, I think I have an open mind, I listen to what other people have to say and if I make a mistake or if I mess up, I learn from it and I take ownership of and I go you know what Hats off. If I was to do that again, I'd do it differently. Or, yeah, this happened. Let's reflect on it, let's review. What would I do differently? How would I move on from here? But what would I do differently if I was in that situation again? I think life is full of mishaps and sidesteps and own the mistakes I've made or write the mistakes I've made along the way as best I can and make that a really good learning experience for me and move forward from it and then share that experience with other people and own it to make sure that I'm helping other people see my viewpoint and where I'm going from there.

Speaker 1 17:46

One of the biggest things well, the biggest adventure you took was having your family, and you mentioned it there. But One of the biggest things well, the biggest adventure you took was having your family, and you mentioned it there. But one of the biggest things you've done, I suppose, is starting a school from scratch, when you started in Powerstown, et&s. What are the particular challenges when you're starting a school from scratch?

Speaker 2 18:03

When I got my job first, I had no staff, no kids and no building, so that was interesting. So, principal of a brand new school that doesn't exist, I think the challenge was just OK, baby steps, how's this going to happen? What's it going to look like? Where are we going to end up? We're quite lucky. The Educate Together community is very, very supportive. We had a development officer assigned to the school, gerry McKevitt. He was my right hand man for the first couple of years we were open. He was a huge support. Paul Rowe was the CEO back then as well and he's actually double 15 man himself, so he always popped in as well and was very supportive of the school as we were growing.

Speaker 2 18:35

I think it's just believing. Ok, you know what, the kids will come, it'll work out, we'll find a teacher that works for the school, you know. I think it's just belief and hope that everything will go as it's meant to go and according to plan. I think our first challenge was finding a home was first because no parents wanted to sign their kids up to a school that doesn't actually have a roof over its head. That's always a challenge. And then, I think, the cohort, the teachers and staff. I got in the first year, like I have one of my A&As Sharon Carr is here with me and she's with me since the very beginning and she's my right hand lady and I told her she's never allowed to leave me or retire, which is awesome. You're kind of a boy. And then my first two teachers were with me for a good few years as well, before they moved down the country to have their own families, and they were just so supportive, like I think it was like the originals, even the first people that you have for the two and three years.

Speaker 2 19:22

When you're such a small school, you live in each other's pockets. No-transcript meeting. This is our school. It belongs to every teacher, every A&A, every parent, every child. Everyone has the opportunity to put their stamp on it and the personality to see in the way we do things, not just in policy, but in the decor or in the events that we run or in the outdoor extracurricular activities. We have that because it's our school for everyone within the Paris town community.

Speaker 2 20:02

If you believe in it and you want something to happen, work with us and it can come reality. I think that's what makes us the team that is thriving today, because everyone's so invested within the school and everyone has such belief in every child who walks in the door Like no one wants any placement to break down, nobody wants any child not to be happy in school, nobody wants any child to be coming to school sad in the morning. Everyone wants every child to finish sixth class in the school and transition successfully to secondary school, finish sixth class in the school and transition successfully to secondary school. And everybody's willing to work with the parents, with the children, with the community organizations, with everybody to see, okay, how can we make that happen. I think once we all have that shared passion, putting a colorful stamp on it to make it a fun, pleasant, exciting place to work, where your colleagues are your friends and you like each other sociably and it has that kind of family, community feeling about it, then you know you're on the right track.

Speaker 1 20:51

So you've built that school. Now I think you've 21 teachers, you've five autism classes, you've one or two language classes.

Speaker 2 21:00

One so far, until the extension gets finished or started, whichever way you want to word it.

Speaker 1 21:05

Tell me, you have a big operation there. How do you start your day? So when you go in in the morning, what's your day look like? When you go in, do you start your day? Do you hit the email straight away, or what do you?

Speaker 2 21:15

do to start the day. What I've started doing the last couple of years is like I get up in the morning like at half five and I go for a run either with my neighbour or with some of the guys here at school. We have like a five and if I start my day like that, I know it's going to be a decent day, because then I have a clear. I've had like my meat time, my head's clear, so then I'm ready to come back into the office and then come into the office at half seven. I put on a coffee pot, even though I hate the smell of coffee. So when people come into school, have a coffee in the morning and get my cup of tea, and then it depends on the day I come and check a couple of emails, then just walk around and check in and everybody, I think in the morning time it's always a really nice time to touch base with people that you're working with and say well, how's it going? How was your day yesterday?

Speaker 2 21:53

We're quite a personal school. We know a lot of stuff about each other. It's like how are your kids, how's your family, how was the Coldplay concert you're at last week that I couldn't get tickets to or whatever it might be that you know like. I think it's just that kind of social kind of sit in the staff room and have a quick cup of tea with people before I go back into the office.

Speaker 2 22:12

I suppose just making sure everyone realizes that just because I'm in an office behind a computer doesn't mean my door isn't open, that we're human, we're personable, everything's relatable. And I think the big thing is like staff realize there's nothing that I would ask them to do that I wouldn't do myself, or there's no situation I put them in that I haven't put myself in before them. Your kind of way, and just building those relationships in the morning is really important. And then just trying to make sure I know all the kids by name gotten in and out of the classrooms, and then the mundane task of emails and all that kind of thing that happens. But I suppose the community comes first and the teaching and the learning of the children happens and then the emails has to be secondary. But then I suppose emails often sometimes get left till everyone leaves the building at half three when I'm trying to finish up before half four to go collect my own kids, you know kind of way. So it's just that balancing act.

Balancing Work and Family Time

Speaker 1 23:00

So the run of the morning clears the head I can see that and then you have your stroll around the school, which is a kind of an Aaron Brockovich kind of thing. Again, you're making time for people and that's vital and you're probably actually avoiding an awful lot of problems by having those chats with people, because then you're always in and out of their experience of the school, so you're able to solve problems before they become a problem at all, indirectly. But then at the end of the day you say, right, you get rid of all your emails or whatever, and of course it's never fully finished. There's always things to do. How do you stop your day and how do you clear your head so, when you go and collect your own kids, that you're not eating the head off of them?

Speaker 2 23:42

you know, I think I've always been really good as in fabulous husband, really supportive. He has more flexible time than I do, so like he gets to do, walk the kids to school every day, which something as those teachers and principals never get to do if your kids don't go to your own school, which is a huge part of life that you get to miss out on. But then my idea is like, well, he does that. I collect my kids at half four every day and it's kind of okay. I collect them, I just take them home. They have homework to do. They have need someone to listen to their reading. They need someone to cook dinner for them. They want to go out and play with their mates in the green. They need their mom to know who their friends moms are. You know kind of way something go and play dates and knock into those houses.

Speaker 2 24:16

I think that time has to be my family time, because my kids are only small for a very short amount of time and I don't want to miss out. I think I miss out enough being here from like quarter past seven to half four every day. It was a big, huge chunk of my life. So, like during school holiday time, I try to free up my time, make way. You know what that that's. Family time anywhere can happen when the kids go to bed or when the kids are out in the green, but when they're there, it's important to be present. Try to be off the phone, try to be away from your emails and your computer and just be a mom because, again, we are people. We're not defined by our, we're defined by the people who we are.

Speaker 1 24:51

Yeah, that's it, and I suppose there's a discipline to that. You know not being on the phone, not being at the email, making yourself present for your children, and you're so right, they're only small, for a very short period of time and then it's done and you will never, ever, ever have it back. But anyway, so that's the start of the finish of the day. So you're in Dublin 15, a growing and big suburb of the biggest city in in the country, big school, educate together, all that goes with it. You have your five ASDs, one language class at the moment. But are there similarities between your job, helena, and that of, say, a teaching principal in a rural three-teacher, four-teacher school?

Challenges in School Leadership and Inclusivity

Speaker 2 25:32

Not completely. We're all run off our feet, we're not enough hours or minutes in the day to do our jobs. I think no matter what school setting we're in, it is so busy where we are all the time. Like I started off when I was teaching for the first four years of the school. I think it was probably a nicer job back then, when it was like 15 years ago, the paperwork, the emails, the circulars weren't as popular as they are now. Sometimes I wish everyone just had to go back to pen and paper, because then you have to think before you write and you have to put in a postbox. So you have to think that a little bit more. Do I want to pay for the stamp or not? Oh, I think whether you're teaching or principal, the job is so busy and the job is so demanding, no matter what school you're in.

Speaker 2 26:12

I think if you look at education and schools across the whole, even nationally, even if I look back and I look at the almost report from last week from a national level, the level of needs presenting within the youth of Ireland is increasing over time. You know, like whether that might be autism, intellectual disabilities, whether it's medical needs like diabetes a lot of our kids have or epilepsy. I think every school and every school management team and every staff member in every school works really, really hard to keep a school running successfully, to make sure it's a positive environment for the children to learn. I don't think it really matters what size school you are. I'm quite lucky because we have the five, six special classes. I have a deputy principal who's amazing and she's administrative now and she's my right hand lady and she makes my job very easy. And we look now and we're like, oh my God, how did she do her job when I do my job when she was teaching full time in a classroom?

Speaker 2 26:59

The demands and, I think, the perfectionism us as professionals put on ourselves.

Speaker 2 27:03

As educators, we set the bar so high for ourselves that trying to sustain that all the time is quite difficult and I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for the amount of work that we actually do on a daily basis, whether you work nine to three because you've no childcare at three o'clock, or whether you work seven to four, whatever your hours might be.

Speaker 2 27:21

I think across the board nationally and the IPPN released a really good report about it as well like the sustainability of school leaderships is so important that we have the support system in place to do it, because it is a very, very challenging time and it's also a very challenging time for teachers because, you know, the education land of the education system is changing rapidly and the CPD and the support for teachers isn't what it used to be.

Speaker 2 27:43

Like pre-covid, we got a lot of seminars and workshops during school time and during term time. Now we're asking teachers and staff to do all that at seven o'clock in the evening, when they're trying to put their kids to bed, or when they have GA training, or when they just need to go for a walk, or they're looking after an elderly parent or what might be. I think we're increasing the demands on staff all the time and the goodwill has to be returned in some way and I suppose at the moment leadership teams are doing that and trying to sustain us. But then you have people who want to go on career breaks. You've got increased people going abroad for teaching.

Speaker 1 28:13

You've got people going on career breaks to look after family or even job sharing because they've got young kids and they can't juggle everything at the same time and all these things yeah yeah yeah for sure thing at the same time, and all these things yeah, yeah, yeah for sure, and all those issues, no matter where you're a school leader you're, you're dealing with them or you're dealing with a child any particular time, and that's in front of your parents, that's in front of you. So there are similarities. But you've taken on even more now in the area of inclusive education because you're also on the executive of NAMSI. Could you tell us a little bit about that please?

Speaker 2 28:42

so actually one. Actually one of my colleagues in Castlenock, educate Together Aideen, introduced me to NAMSI when we opened a broad system class 10 years ago and it was just a really good. It's a board of management or a support place to go for children for special education, so it's just a really, really good place to go for advice if you're not sure how to deal with something and support something, and they've always specialised in special education so they would support schools with. Originally it kind of set up with special schools first, then special classes, but now, because the level of inclusivity within mainstream schools is quite high and the level of needs in our mainstream schools is quite high, they're there to support everybody who wants support. So I suppose by linking with them and seeing the support that they offered and then just on reflection, the increase in autism classes and special needs classes across the country over the last eight years, like I think in Dublin 15, has increased by 240% at primary level, 420% at second level. In the last six years the special class provision has increased by that much in Dublin 15 that I kind of felt that, ok, special classes within mainstream schools need to be represented properly at meetings and at stakeholder meetings and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 29:45

So I felt, ok, namsi were looking for people with a name forward, so I put my name forward and I was voted on last October at the AGM. They also have their conference coming up in October. It's a well worth going for anybody who'd be interested in attending. It's really really hands on, informative, beneficial for everyone to see. But I suppose that was kind of why I wanted to go in there, because I suppose we see the challenges that we have in our school and there's a lot of challenges when you have children, for example, with autism and complex needs coming into your school and then autism and complex needs where there might be mental health issues as well, and the level of supports that school staff get is quite limited. From a Dublin 15 perspective, some of our kids are waiting seven years plus before the CA clinician after they get a diagnosis. Their CD&T waiting lists are seven years plus for one of our teams, four years plus for the other team.

Speaker 2 30:33

So we're fighting fires a lot on the ground trying to figure out how we can make sure placements don't break down. Our board of managers have been fantastic, but we have spent a lot of money getting external supports to stop school placements breaking down, and I suppose I just felt that that needs to be addressed nationally as best as possible, and being involved in a stakeholder group and giving the perspective of a mainstream school principal with autism classes and DLD classes is important. And then also there's more disabilities and autism. Like we do have a DLD class. The sector for DLD classes is there since 2008 and has been updated, and we've been asking the department and the NCSE to look at that. Now they're looking at it this year apparently, which is awesome. But I think just making sure that disabilities as a whole, not just autism, are looked at needs to be discussed and prioritised as well. But being involved in a national stakeholder organisation like NAMSI is really good to make sure that the primary principal's perspective is heard as well as everybody else's.

Speaker 1 31:28

I was reading up a little bit before we were chatting about the importance of a neuroaffirmative environment.

Speaker 2 31:34

My type of language.

Speaker 1 31:36

Well, it was you who wrote it, full disclosure. Can you explain to me what that looks like on the ground? So if I walk into your school and you're working towards a neuroaffirmative environment, how will I see that?

Speaker 2 31:48

I think, firstly, it's a very strengths-based approach. You know, we see our children come into our classrooms a lot of the time. When we get a new child in who may have complex needs, everyone looks at everything that's difficult and everything that's hard or everything that's not working. I think just having a mindset change okay, what is actually working is the child like doing. What do you see them engaging with? What do you feel their strengths are? And if we always start at the strengths-based perspective, then we have an in, your kind of way, and then you have a step for progress and then, once we have an in, we can build a relationship. So our priority is, you know, looking at the strengths, building a relationship. But once we have that, we can build a relationship. So our priority is, you know, looking at the strengths, building a relationship. But once we have that, we can build on everything else. And without those two first steps, your success is going to be quite limited. So, like when we go work with any child in any class, you go to school, you'll see the children's personalities, you'll see their strengths, you'll see their skill sets.

Speaker 2 32:37

You'd hope that everyone and I suppose that's the joys of the primary school curriculum that you have that project work. Or even say, if you look at the infant classroom, you have that Asher time where there's something like in our Asher, in our primary infant classes, we would open up the doors between the two classrooms. We would have eight different stations with eight complete different activities based on a theme. There's definitely something in there to suit somebody. You're kind of across those eight things If you change up and you find something else.

Speaker 2 33:01

And just having that kind of explorative way where you can find the strength for the children and step by step builds on them, I think that's a really good point. But then also, if you look at the way teachers are trained and I suppose we do myself and Cora, we do a good bit of CPD with the staff it's kind of okay. It's a mindset change just looking at that whole nurturing approach, the whole trauma informed approach to how we are doing things. If something's happening, there's a reason for it. If a child is dysregulated in school, asking why and trying to figure out the solution.

Speaker 1 33:31

So being very solution based and strength based is what we believe in here and all credit to who leads our um scn community of practice in dublin 15, and there's a great group going there. So fair play to them. Fair play, indeed, to corona. I actually you touched on what I was going to actually quiz you about.

Speaker 1 33:47

Next, I found myself as a principal trying my best to help the parents as well of you know, of children with special needs, because they have a battle on their hands very often and you want to do your best to support them, and I suppose you answered it there and you know how do you help? Do you help them? We'll start with what can they do. Don't start with OK, where are the difficulties and where can we help. It's actually a change of mindset to OK, what is your child good at, what are their strengths and how can we work on that. It's just a different approach and I suppose that would probably help the parents an awful lot. Because you're starting from a positivity, so you've got a lot going on. Lot because you're starting from a positivity, so you've got a lot going on. You've said there you're going to do your phd this year as well, so you're working very hard. What brings you joy in your life, elena?

Speaker 2 34:31

you know what? Definitely my family, my kids, hanging out with them. It's always great friends. You know, I think they're big things in life. You know, just having those relationships with people and that connection to people. I think once you have connections with people and you have someone to meet and someone to talk to, you can always get over any bump in the road you ever have. You know, getting up this morning at three o'clock cleaning up my child's vomit wasn't very pleasant, but got out for my own afterwards so it was fine. But you know, I was kind of looking with my neighbours, so it's kind of like looking at the pros of there helps.

Speaker 2 35:00

I think I'm quite lucky I'm in a position where I still really like my job. I still love coming to school every day. I really enjoy everybody I work with. I really enjoy working with the children. I enjoy being hands-on. I enjoy going into the classroom. I enjoy finding out what the children are learning. I enjoy covering a class when a teacher is out. Like you know the whole bread and butter, why we do what we do, the whole teaching and learning thing. I still have a huge grow for that, which is great. So I think once you still have passion and feel fulfilled by what you're doing within your work, it definitely makes life easier, but also once you have a life outside of work too and be able to try to manage that balance as best you can, because I do collide regularly but trying to balance it as best you can keeps my spark going, I suppose really good.

Speaker 1 35:42

Well, you certainly bring your spark to everything you do. I have to say, helena, it was always a pleasure going out to Powerstown ETNS. I hope to visit there again soon. But you're accredited to teaching profession and you're accredited to your school and the school community you serve so well. So, helena, go raibh míle maith agat. Thank you very much. We will chat again soon, I'm sure. Thanks, míleán Tune in next week for another episode of Teachers Themselves.

Speaker 1 36:19

If you're enjoying this season, you can go back and find episodes from season one or two. All well worth a listen. Please don't forget to subscribe, share with colleagues and friends, leave us a review or send us a message. Your feedback informs the show. You can follow us across our social media channels Instagram, twitter, linkedin. Facebook Links are in the show notes. If you have any thoughts on today's episode or suggestions for future topics, you can email Zita here at zrobinson at dwecie. That's zrobinson at dwecie. Oh and, as always, don't forget to book your CPD at dwecie. Hop online at dwecie to book your CPD at dwcie. Hop online at dwcie to book your CPD. Míle maith agaibh ar íst. Have a great week, slán tamall.

Speaker 2 37:11

Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original Produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre. Thank you.