Paying It Forward with Kathryn Corbett

Join us for our final episode of season four in conversation with school Principal and co-founder of the WILL (Women In Learning & Leadership) Network, Kathryn Corbett.

With refreshing candour and a wisdom borne of experience, Kathryn reveals how her early love for learning blossomed into a purposeful career path that's transforming educational leadership across Ireland. Her professional story is one that encompasses international experience where she discovered formal mentoring programs that sparked her interest in teacher induction and support. Experience which she brought home to Ireland and implemented into the Irish education system. 

From her own experiences of leadership in education, Kathryn has become an advocate for female leadership and a builder of education community in Ireland. In conversation with our host, Ultan, Kathryn discusses founding the WILL (Women In Learning & Leadership) Network alongside Rachel O'Connor. Created to address the stark imbalance between the predominantly female teaching workforce and leadership positions, this network creates opportunities for women across the education sector to find connection, mentorship, and pathways to leadership that might otherwise seem unattainable.

Tune in to hear Kathryn's insights on sustainable leadership and work-life boundaries. Her thoughtful reflection on systemic challenges facing school leaders will resonate deeply with anyone working in education today.

Kathryn leaves us with a powerful reminder: "The biggest risk is the one that you don't take." Listen now to be inspired by her story and practical wisdom on leadership, boundaries, and creating meaningful change in education.
Connect with the WILL Network on Instagram @networkwill  

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Teachers Themselves is a DWEC original, produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre produced by Zita Robinson.

Transcript

Welcome to Teachers Themselves

Speaker 1 0:08

Fáilte stach. And welcome to Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, alton MacMahonagh. And welcome to Teachers Themselves podcast. I'm your host, ultham MacMahon. This podcast is brought to you by Dublin West Education Support Centre. We're located on the grounds of TUD Tala, serving and supporting the school communities of West Dublin and beyond. Welcome to Season 4 of Teachers Themselves. This season we're bringing you conversations with educators who are doing very interesting things in the Irish education system. We've really enjoyed chatting with them about their varied contributions to classroom and schools around Ireland and we hope you'll find them as inspiring as we did.

Speaker 2 0:57

I always liked helping people and, you know, supporting them in their career. I suppose I got such a great support when I started that you just would pay it forward.

Speaker 1 1:05

Okay, so you're all very, very welcome to this week's episode of Teachers Themselves, and I am absolutely thrilled to be joined by a principal who's very close to the centre, only over in Temple Oak, catherine Corbett. And Catherine is principal of Bishop Galvin, temple Oak, dublin, and is also a co-founder of the Will Network. Catherine, you're very, very welcome to Teachers Themselves. How are you?

Speaker 2 1:39

I'm very good, Very good. Olsen. Thank you for the invitation. Delighted to chat to you. It's a sunny, nearly May afternoon and it's that end of term kind of chaos is in school at the moment. It's kind of the best time of the year and sometimes the hardest time of the year.

Kathryn's Early Education Journey

Speaker 1 1:55

Indeed indeed. But you know what? It's a pleasure to be amongst children this time of the year. They're getting to wear their shorts again and they're out and even playing with friends, and sure everyone's in a good mood when the sun is shining Exactly. So, catherine, we'll start with where you are from. Where in Ireland are you from, catherine?

Speaker 2 2:11

Leish. I'm actually originally from Leish, a little small village called Timahoe. It's probably most famous for its round tower.

Speaker 1 2:18

Yes, timahoe very good, and you grew up in Timahoe. You went to the national school there, I take it. Tell us a little bit about your own experience in school.

Speaker 2 2:33

It was a small country school and my memories are so positive from school. I just loved it from the first day, just loved learning, loved being part of a classroom, loved my teacher, just loved everything about school. And I suppose that's where my my love for learning started and I always wanted to be a teacher. Just from the very beginning I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to do that work and I loved the creativity. I loved working with children. I loved the whole idea of school and I suppose school suited me and suited how I learned. So even when I was younger with all I remember my dolls and teddies they were my classroom. Everything was set up so it was the only thing I wanted to do from a very young age.

Speaker 1 3:09

And were there teachers in that school that you, you looked up to or gave you a particular experience? You said that's who I want to be, or that's how I want to be, or or the reverse that you said that's definitely not how I'm going to be like.

Speaker 2 3:23

My favorite, I would say, would have been Miss Daly, who was there, I think was probably in fourth class and she just loved everything around literacy and reading and writing and she was very creative. So we did a lot of art and I just remember learning being a lot of fun. And then another lady was Miss Mulhall, who I'm actually linked in with. At the moment she has a new career it's called Gold Star Careers and she's now she's a retired teacher and she's now supporting people in terms of their career choices and I've already linked in with her recently. It's just because she was my first class teacher. But I think I was really lucky to have had teachers who loved what they were doing, loved learning, brought a lot of their personality to their job and and just really excited me about learning.

Speaker 1 4:16

Okay, and you went on into secondary school. Then tell me about your journey into becoming a teacher.

Speaker 2 4:22

So I went to Haywood Community School, then in Ballinacill and again I have positive memories there and I said I just think school suited me. I like the structure, I like the routine, I like the variety. And then I, when I was doing my leave in search, I was very focused that I wanted to be a teacher. It is the only thinking in hindsight now it is actually the only choice I put down to my CAO. I didn't put, you know, you've lots of options, so there was no plan B, probably not the not the cleverest thing to do. But at the at the time I was like it's teaching or nothing, there's nothing else I want to do. And I worked really, really hard for my leave insert and I got the points to get into my first choice, which was St Patrick's College in Drumcondra.

Speaker 2 5:04

I started there my teacher training there in 96, I think, yeah, 1996. And it was a three-year course at the time and I found the college. It was everything that I expected it was going to be, but it was full on. I suppose we had lectures from nine to six. It wasn't what I at college. I thought you'd have gaps in the day and you'd have lots of flexibility, but it was almost like a full-time job, five days a week, nine to six, and very full on. But I again love the variety, the variety of teaching the different subjects. There's no one subject that I love enough to be just a teacher for that subject, so it was just looked at all the different variety that we had as college. College seems to went by in a blur really fast, you know. I just remember my favourite part of it was school placement, because then you could do the work that you were, you were preparing for and be in schools and working with children.

Speaker 1 5:59

It's so funny you should say that it brings me back now. I was in Pats a long time before you, but yeah, it was full-on. I remember friends were doing, say, a BA or whatever, had time to be lying around on the green, smoking cigarettes and chatting about things and we were really yeah that nine to five and then when school placement came along, teaching practices, it was the time that was really hard work. I was full throttle all the way. But yeah, great memories of Pat's was a great college and gave you a great start, a bit of a leg up. So where did you start teaching then, catherine?

Speaker 2 6:30

So then I was. I started my career in Bishop Galvin National School in Temple Oak where at the time there were lots of jobs when you came out. So it was really picking and choosing where you'd like to live and where you'd like to work. And I remember going for an interview and I remember walking into the school and getting a lovely vibe and it was the senior school, from third to sixth class, and I was appointed there my first job and they were so welcoming and supportive of newly qualified teachers and I thought that was how every school was, that there was a very much a community feel linking in with the local GAA club. There was like art we had an art exhibition, we had a lot of GAA but there was also music was very much celebrated, so it was very focused on the holistic child. It was.

Speaker 2 7:20

Academics were important, but it was all the other stuff that was really valuable or valued, I would say, for the school experience and I suppose that was a great start. Now in hindsight I know that was such a brilliant start to my career. I was surrounded by very confident, competent teachers who loved what they were doing but also had fun with it and brought fun into their classrooms and that was kind of you know, the expectation was that this is like learning is fun and we should make it fun and relationships with children is the number one priority, because when you've got good relationships with children, anything is possible in terms of their learning. And, as I said in, I didn't realize how important that was going to be for the rest of my career.

Speaker 1 8:10

Um, that's really really good start into teaching in school so that culture existed, was amon tracy principal at the time no, jimmy o'dwyer and jimmy o'dwyer, and then amon was deputy principal. And was Sean Healy there before Jimmy?

Speaker 2 8:26

Sean Healy was before then.

Speaker 1 8:28

yeah, you had a culture of fellas who were very committed leaders who were very committed to you know, building a positive culture in the school, and then I suppose you're teaching away. You got involved in a few things which I suppose put the seed of leadership into you, maybe, or developed the seed that was into you, maybe, or developed the seed that was in you in relation to leadership. You were involved in induction stuff, catherine, weren't you?

Speaker 2 8:50

Yeah, I would have. Always. Once I was started there, after you know, two or three years, I was beside newly qualified teachers and just I always liked helping people and, you know, supporting them in their career. I suppose I got such a great support when I started that you just would pay it forward. And then I took a career break and I went to Australia and I tried different jobs. I was going to take a break from teaching, try different jobs, but I was really drawn back to teaching again and so I got my teacher number there and I started to teach full-time and I stayed there for two and a half years and I taught in an Orthodox Jewish school in Sydney, which was a really interesting experience and they had a mentoring program and I was only there six months and they had asked me to mentor and work with different teachers around teaching and learning and I hadn't really heard about it and I knew informal induction but I didn't know much about mentoring, didn't know much about induction and became really interested in that. So I stayed there for two and a half years and then I came back to Ireland and I wanted to do a master's and I wanted to find out more about mentoring.

Speaker 2 10:01

Induction and really it was very early days here in Ireland where it was mentoring was starting to happen or become.

Speaker 2 10:09

There was mentor training available, so I trained as a mentor here and then the research for my master's which I did in Maynooth University was all focused around what type of induction newly qualified teachers needed and the title of my thesis was Sink or Swim, so it was back in I think it was 2007. And then from there there was a national pilot program on induction. So I applied for that a position of regional development officer there and I was appointed because I had very new research in the area which was going to inform the development of the pilot project and that project was supporting at the time maybe two, three hundred NQTs and that was to go on then to become a national program across across the country. So it was brilliant to be involved in something very new, very small, that grew rapidly and quickly and then became a key part of policy and practice in Ireland and it's still kind of flourishing now. The induction and mentoring is a core part of teacher professional learning in Ireland now. So it was great. It was a great experience.

Speaker 1 11:22

Isn't it brilliant that you can look at that when it was in its embryonic stage and you know to know that you left your imprint on it, that at that stage it was two or three hundred NQTs. Now it's spread right across the country and it's cross-sectoral and you had critical input into that at such an early stage. I'm very proud of that.

Speaker 2 11:44

Oh, it was brilliant and I just think of the experience and the opportunity, like we were really working. There was no blueprint, we were working from a blank page really, of what, what we thought it might look like, what it should look like, and then it was very much based on feedback. Every time there was feedback on any training that we did, anything that we designed, anything that we designed, and then we just it was always the culture was like to make it better, make it more, I suppose, effective in terms of meeting the needs of newly qualified teachers. And again going back to the relationships, it was all about making connections with your schools.

Speaker 2 12:20

So my area stretched from Waterford up to Monaghan and included all of Dublin, kildare, leash, midlands, so it was a huge area and obviously not every school was involved, but the schools that were involved you would go and visit and we learned from every school visit and we'd come back and look at our materials and develop them. And I suppose now when I look back, it was just such. It was a time of a lot of change, but a lot of those people who trained as mentors are now school leaders and I would meet them again and remember from you know that, that mentor training and I think it's a type of teacher who's interested in this type of work and that's there's real leadership potential there and they have gone on to become school leaders.

Speaker 1 13:07

Catherine, I was thinking about your time there in Timahoe and then in Pat's school placement, then studying for your master's, hopping over to Sydney Orthodox Jewish School, getting involved in the programs when you came home, the confidence to go the length and breadth of the country, that kind of laser focus, I suppose that has guided you. Where did that come from?

Mentoring and Teacher Induction

Speaker 2 13:29

I've always been very focused and I work hard, but I, if I want something and I probably my mother is it is has always given me the confidence that if you want something you can get it, but you you have to work for it. And then when you're making a difference, when you see the impact of what you're doing, that's a real motivator as well. So when, when I was part of the induction program, you could see the changes that you were bringing about, we were starting to do observing in classrooms. That was something that wasn't done except by an inspector, and so we had to talk about and think about a culture change where observation was supportive, had to talk about and think about a culture change where observation was supportive and the whole language around observation and the language around confidentiality and working with adults.

Speaker 2 14:15

That being part of something new is very, is highly motivating, especially when you can see the impact. And if your focus is about making things better and you're talking about good teaching, which means impacts, the pupil learning and the children are going to benefit. So you're going back to children all the time and how their experience of school, because if teachers are very confident in what they're doing and enjoy what they're doing and feel well supported, then the ultimate beneficiaries are going to be the children in their class. So that's probably what motivates me is that when you see there's an impact in what you're doing and there's a reason and a value, that's very important to me in whatever work that I do.

Speaker 1 14:57

So, yeah, I see, oftentimes people will come back to the home where they learn these, I suppose, key motivators or key skills that drive them through life. You know, and your mom obviously gave you that, I know. It's true that you say you know, she says, well, you can do what you want, but you have to work hard for it. And when that message comes in at an early age, and, in fairness to you, when you adopt the message, you're smart enough to say, yeah, you know, mom's got it right here. It really does pay benefits. And your key motivator then is the influence you can have for good in other people's lives. And that's key to that. And that kind of brings me to the next. You know where it comes.

Speaker 1 15:36

On my horizon, outside of bishop galvin, is the will network and I was recently at the imto congress and I was sitting up near the front and the minister was. It was addressing the congress and I was just thinking wasn't front and the minister was addressing the Congress. I was just thinking, wasn't it fantastic? The minister is female, the secretary general of the department is female, chief inspector is female, president of the INTO is female. I happen to be sitting beside the IPBN president, female Top table in the INTO so many views and it's brilliant and it's a credit to, I I suppose, huge advances that have been made because, you know, when you look back, I remember at the esky 50th, with an occasion in crow park and jared mccue talked about it and he was saying, if I have the right year I think it was 1978 they did away with the rule that a woman couldn't be principal of a school of more than 80 children and when you think about it, shocking now, could.

Speaker 1 16:27

Shocking Now, it could have 78. Wrong, could have been 68, could have been 58. It really doesn't matter, but it's fantastic. There's been such growth in opportunity for women, I suppose right across our sector. But there's obviously still work to be done there. Catherine, can you tell us why you got involved in founding the Will Network and, for listeners who might know, tell us a little bit about Will and about the need for it and the, I suppose to go back to what you were saying there the good that it's doing in helping other people.

Speaker 2 16:58

I suppose I hadn't set out to create a network. It was a happy accident the way it started. I would have been always interested in leadership, so when I was teaching and then I worked with the teaching council on policy development. But I always wanted to be a school leader at some stage in my career and so when a position came up, I applied for the position in Bishop Galvin and at the time I had an eight month old baby and I had two other children and it was interesting the conversations that were. You know, different people would say different things like how could you do that job with a young family? And it's actually in the middle of my PhD at the time as well. And again I have that if you want something, you work hard for it. Nothing is, everything is possible. So you think what was she thinking at the time? I probably wasn't thinking, to be honest, and that's the best way to be. If you want something, you overthink it, you'll talk yourself out of it. So I applied for the position and I got the position.

Speaker 2 17:57

Just lots of interesting conversations about at that time when I was the first female principal. I am the first female principal of the school and there was a. When I started work, there was an expectation of, like how principals work, um, you know how long you're there in terms of in the office, um, and I had to put boundaries in place and I had to figure out how it was going to work for me with three young children. And that has changed over time because, as as your family context changed, how you work, um has to change. But you still bring a huge amount of value to a leadership position, but you might do it in a different way to another person and you know, previous to that, having worked, you know, with all, all male principals, I didn't have any female role models that I could look to or talk to and say, well, how did you do it? And so that was. You know, I suppose in the first couple years as principal, I was trying to figure it out for myself of how to do it and you know what you should and shouldn't do and how it would work for me.

Founding the Will Network

Speaker 2 18:56

And then Fela, the teaching council festival. It was actually during Covid. There was a panel and it was about leadership and it was about women in leadership and it was run by Rahu. It's Ciara McGowan who has Rahuie, which is a company. She was a teacher in the UK and she came back and set up a company and she asked myself and another principal to come on and talk about being a female school leader, and it was the first time that anyone had put a spotlight on it, had asked anything about it, and so she asked lots of questions and myself and Rachel O'Connor were talking and it was such an interesting conversation because it was something that hadn't come up, you know, in any forum, or certainly not in my experience, before and after the conversation we were, we were really enthusiastic, saying you know, there must be other women who feel like, who are interested in leadership, and they don't have anybody to talk to.

Speaker 2 19:56

So we decided to run a series of workshops for aspiring female leaders and the main purpose was just, if you're interested in leadership or if you're already in a leadership position, let's chat and share experiences, ideas, let's support each other, and it was Wexford Education Centre that were hugely supportive and said, yeah, they would facilitate it. So we we did and it booked out within 24 hours and we ran that a couple of times, but every time we would finish, so so it was done over three Mondays. It was online, it was seven to nine. It was very flexible, tailored to suit the needs of who was in the group and it was primary and post-primary and the feedback each time was hugely positive. But all the participants wanted more, more opportunities to meet, more opportunities to talk. And one comment from what we had a guest speaker and she said I think it's amazing the network that Catherine and Rachel are creating here and we didn't. We were thinking what network? We don't have a network, but we had created something without meaning to. So then lots of WhatsApp over and back for about two months. Will we start a network?

Speaker 2 21:09

Because there's networks everywhere, in every profession. There are women's networks in almost all professions because there is an imbalance there's. It's about 50 50 in terms of male and female in primary, but there's 80 percent, 80 percent of our profession are women and it's so. It's not reflected in leadership. There should be 80, 20 then in terms of leadership. So we were wondering why are women not going for the leadership positions? Why is there such an imbalance? And if there was a network of support, would that be impactful and change? And maybe there are lots of women in teaching who think maybe lack confidence or don't have role models or don't have people who they can talk to, but would love a leadership position. So on the 8th of March in 2022, on Twitter, we recorded ourselves to launch Will Network and you could subscribe, and we were blown away by the response. There are over 2,200 registered with Will Network members. It's free to register and when you register, you're basically we send a newsletter information of things that we are doing and mainly it's opportunities to connect.

Speaker 1 22:29

That's our, our main focus, so we have opportunities to connect.

Speaker 2 22:35

So yeah, so it looks different, different things, I suppose, depending on what we we put on um we we talked about when you're in your school, it can be very isolated because you go to the same school every day, you're in the same staff room with the same people, but when do you get opportunities to meet other people? So if you go to professional development in an education centre, that's an opportunity. If you go to a conference, but if you want to talk about leadership, there are networking opportunities when you are in the position, but there are no little or no opportunities if you are only thinking about the position and it's very dependent on who's on your staff and the conversations that are there. So what we wanted to do was give anybody, um, any woman in education, the opportunity to hear other women talk about their leadership experiences or ambitions. First of all, we decided to do it online because that gives accessibility to everybody.

Speaker 2 23:30

So we started will chats, which was a live online podcast style conversation, and we would have one person in education and one person outside education. You register for free and you could. It was just you put it in the headphones or your airpods and listen in. It's like eavesdropping on a conversation, and so we are actually. Our next one is in May, a little bit later on in the month, and that's our 21st We'll Chat and the feedback was really positive. But it was just to give, to hear the experiences of others. It's about sharing stories of leadership.

Speaker 1 24:08

It's also for women, or maybe even predominantly for women who aren't in a leadership role but who are considering a leadership role, so you can join the Will network even if you're not in a leadership role in your school.

Speaker 2 24:17

Absolutely yeah, if you're just interested in hearing.

Speaker 1 24:20

Rachel is the president of the NAPD, the Post Primary Principals Association. Just if some of our listeners don't know that, so Rachel was at the time when we started.

Speaker 2 24:31

Rachel was a principal of a post primary school, a large post primary school in Wexford. She then became president of NAPD, which is the association for principals, adept principals at post primary, and she's now the deputy director director of that organization. So she is passionate about leadership. She has a young family. She experienced the same, I suppose, barriers that I experienced, but also the bridges around. What well, what did you do to get past a barrier? And so we talk about that a lot.

Speaker 2 25:05

We talked about with our guests. We would talk about what the barriers are, but, really importantly, what the bridges are. You know, how do you overcome that? What can you do? How can you think about things differently? What changes can you make? And and we always talk about boundaries, putting boundaries in place, because, um, family is the most important thing for, uh, for everybody, um, so how do you get some, I suppose, balance, um, where you have your I? I suppose you want, you're ambitious for what you want in terms of your work, but also it's very important to look after yourself and have perspective and priorities in your whole life.

Speaker 2 25:44

So lots of sharing of stories and information and things that we're reading things, that we're watching leadership lessons. So that's been going on for the last three years, and so we do whale chats and then we have whale brunch. So that happens three times a year. It's an in-person brunch where it's a networking event and we have a speaker, two guest speakers one from in education, one from outside and it's the same thing and it's brilliant.

Leadership Boundaries and Sustainability

Speaker 2 26:13

What we want to see is women having conversations, swapping numbers, emails and then connecting whatever it is that they need support in. It might be going for a second position, going for a deputy principal, maybe their assistant principal in a school, or they want to engage in further study. So it's not just to be a principal, it can be whatever is the next step in your career. We want to create opportunities that they can connect with each other and we're always thinking of creative ways to, you know, kind of engage with the members in Will Network and we say dip in and dip out. You know sometimes online suits somebody, sometimes the brunch suits somebody better, and you know online suits somebody, sometimes the brunch suits somebody, uh, better, and you know it's. It's whatever you need whenever you need it. That's what the network is there for the brunch.

Speaker 1 26:59

One sounds like great crack um I I yeah, I mean our first one, I have to tell you the first one.

Speaker 2 27:04

We put it out and we had 50 places and about a week before there was 27 people signed up. I'll never forget it and we're like god, we're not sure what if nobody turns up. And anyway, slowly but surely, we got up to the. I think 47 people came on the first one. Now, three years later, we have 120 places and they sell out in 24 hours. So it's become hugely popular and we have different people coming each time and then they make connections with other women there and then they might join a real chat or they'll come to another brunch and it's always different because it depends on who's in the room.

Speaker 1 27:46

Bonnie, the piece you said there about boundaries resonates with me. I heard somebody recently Now it wasn't a school leader, but it was a leader in another sector but they said you know, work got the best of me and my family got the rest of me. And just the phrase clicked with me. You know, you said there, you know you have to put your family first. Family comes first and I guess there's an extra challenge there. You know, if there's kids at home and your heart is split in two between the good you're doing in your school and the necessity to be at home for your own children, but that whole idea of boundaries, definitely I think leaders, and particularly women leaders, need all the support they can get with that.

Speaker 2 28:36

Yeah, and it's about how you know and I've learned lots of you know how other leaders and and I've learned from men and women you know how do you put the boundaries in place, because it's a it can be a tough one. If you're very passionate about your work, you can get uh leadership habits that are not good for leadership sustainability and you can take on lots of things, or you know certain things can take too much time, or you can micromanage or you kind of you might be focused on leadership capacity, uh building leadership capacity.

Speaker 1 29:00

So leadership habits are very important can you give me an example of one of those house or one of those habits that would help somebody set up a boundary?

Speaker 2 29:10

just one I suppose you have to look at your look at your day and what like. What does your day look like and how do you structure your day? Um, I was probably I like to get out for a run or for a walk, and I wasn't getting out to do it in the evenings and, you know, kind of feeling frustrated, guilty, that I'm not getting out to exercise, which is really important, I think. Um, so so I just changed to getting up earlier and so most mornings I'm out at quarter to seven for either walk or run, and that's that was that's made a huge difference to my energy and how I work.

Speaker 2 29:45

I think your phone has a. I mean your work, you bring your work in the front door and it's if you are constantly have things on your phone or you're constantly looking at your phone. You're not switching off. I think you have to make an effort. I have to make an effort to switch, switch out, because I know I really enjoy what I do, but if you don't get a break, it does have an impact and it can lead to burnout.

Speaker 1 30:10

So you have to be very strict with yourself, you know, I suppose it goes back to what you were saying earlier about you know you have to work hard at it. You actually have to work hard at setting the boundaries, you know, and, as you say, there's self-discipline involved in that. I know a lot of principals would rely on, say, the Stoics and that guy, ryan Holiday, who speaks so frequently about. You know, discipline is the key to all these things and it goes back to what your mom said about working hard and all those things. But come here, as I have you there now. You're talking about getting out in the morning and all that. What brings you joy? What brings Catherine Corbett joy?

Speaker 2 30:46

yeah, like a lot of it. The work, work that I do I really enjoy, I love. I love when you have a project, that you're working on some aspect of school and you see the impact. You see a change in teachers' learning, a change in pupils. I love the whole area of behaviour and supporting behaviour for learning. So the stuff in work that gives me joy is that and and you know, I suppose, seeing people develop leadership skills that you work with, um, that I'm very passionate about that.

Speaker 2 31:21

The impact of will um, we have gotten myself and Rachel have gotten so many messages and of the impact a conversation, a phrase a guest speaker has had and people have made changes in their lives. Like that. That is hugely fulfilling and motivating. Outside of that, I'm an avid reader. I really enjoy reading, I like being outside and, yeah, I love spending time with my kids. There are teenagers two teenagers, two teenagers and younger and I enjoy, I really enjoy their company, um, so that's probably, yeah, I like, I like the beach and I like holidays absolutely, especially this time of year, we're starting to think about the holidays oh, I'm ready to go um, just, and what frustrates you in your, you know, in your work I won't say your job, because you know what you do is beyond just the specifics of four walls what frustrates you in your work?

Speaker 2 32:20

I like to plan and I think strategic planning is really important, and I like to have priorities and know what my focus is. And what's frustrating is if the priorities you know maybe from the structure or the system we work in continually change, because you seem to be. It's like whack-a-mole you're literally you know you've started, you've decided what you're focused on for the year and then something else has to. Well, this has to become a new priority. And this has become a new priority and and that just seems to be the case for the last couple of years is that we keep jumping from priority to priority and it just keeps piling up and it's hard then to keep focus of what are we doing and do it well. And the planning, you know we it's circular after circular that lands on your desk and say, okay, how important is this? When does it have to be done by?

Finding Joy and Facing Challenges

Speaker 2 33:17

And I suppose, in terms of the structure that we work in, I think there's a lot of work to be done around leadership.

Speaker 2 33:23

I'm in a school with 40 staff and I am the only person that is not teaching. I have there's a secretary, but I'm the only person not teaching, so if there's an issue in school, everybody else is engaged in a full-time position and we have to look at the leadership structures. How do we support leadership sustainability in a school? But also what are people's roles like the sen coordinator in a school is crucial to children with additional needs to sna support, and yet it is. The person in my school is assistant principal and she has full-time teaching load and the demands of paperwork and accountability, which I have no problem with accountability but you do need to put supports in place if you want to increase accountability and transparency, and that's going to take away from teaching and learning, because one person can't do everything as the demands increase. So the frustrating thing for me is the increase in expectations and demands without the structure and systemic support behind it and at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 34:28

it's a kind of an echo of what, uh, somebody else said to me. They were saying that, you know, the department wants us to drive a car with all the whistles and bells, but they're only paying for a steering wheel and a gear stick and that's about it.

Speaker 2 34:41

And one wheel.

Speaker 1 34:45

And one wheel is right. I suppose the journey you've come on from a wee girl in Timahoe to being a leader, not only in Bishop Galvin in Temple Oak and that community there, but the community I'll go beyond the network the community that grew from. Will Network, you know, is making a huge difference to people and you know, I'm sure he gets you, you know, words of support and thanks all the time. But you know, we here too, in education centres, the good that you're doing. So look by way I finish up. I'd just like to say thank you, keep doing the good work, keep being Catherine Corbett, because whatever you're doing, you're doing well. Be sure, and enjoy your weekends, be sure to enjoy your holidays. They're well earned and thank you for coming on. Have you a focal skirt for us or a last word before we wind up?

Final Thoughts on Taking Risks

Speaker 2 35:36

god, you're putting me on the spot now. Um, yeah, I think whatever you're doing, it's really important that you enjoy it and, um, it's really important to think about the impact, um on yourself and the others around you. And if it's a really positive thing, then it kind of feeds into your energy. But if it's not, that change there's. You know, I suppose I've always been a bit of a risk taker. The biggest risk is the one that you don't take. So, not to be afraid in terms of taking risks, because the worst case scenario is that you learn something of what not to do, and the worst case scenario is that you learn something of what not to do, and the best case scenario is that you have something new and different. So that's it. Yeah, that's really probably what has guided me and helped me taking those risks, and they've always been worth it.

Speaker 1 36:24

Well risk taker Catherine Corbett go raibh míle míle maith agat for joining us today, and I wish you the very very best best A pleasure, alton, thanks a million.

Speaker 1 36:48

Tune in next week for another episode of Teachers Themselves. Don't forget to go back and find episodes from previous seasons. All well worth a listen. Please subscribe, share with colleagues and friends, leave us a review or send us a message. Your feedback informs the show. You can follow us across our social media channels. The links are in the show notes. If you have any thoughts on today's episode or suggestions for future topics, email Zita here at zrobinson at dwecie. That's zrobinson at dwecie. Oh, and, as always, don't forget to book your CPD with dwcie, wwwdwecie. Thanks again. Have a great week, slán tamall Teachers.

Speaker 2 37:39

Themselves is a DWEC original Produced and created by Dublin West Education Centre. Thank you.