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Pat Walsh
Pat's Peeps Podcast
Ep. 259 Today's Peep Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk: A Deep Dive into Comedy's Most Iconic Trio The Three Stooges Legacy as Revealed by Stooges Expert and Long-Time Colleague and Friend Ryan Harris
Some comedy acts fade with time. Others, like The Three Stooges, become immortal. In this laughter-filled episode, Pat welcomes fellow Stooges enthusiast Ryan Harris for a fascinating journey through the remarkable history of Moe, Larry, Curly, and the entire Stooge ensemble.
The conversation reveals surprising details about the Howard brothers' Brooklyn upbringing near Coney Island, where they first began performing impromptu comedy routines on the beach. Ryan shares the true origin of Shemp's unusual nickname (his Lithuanian mother's accent when calling "Sam!") and details their contentious split from vaudeville performer Ted Healy, who once threatened to bomb theaters where they performed independently.
Behind the eye-pokes and slaps lies a fascinating technical reality – the Stooges weren't actually hurting each other. Moe aimed for brow bones rather than eyes, props were rubber, and those iconic sound effects came from a newfangled "Foley board." Meanwhile, off-camera, Moe was quietly building a real estate empire across Hollywood while managing finances for his less fiscally responsible colleagues.
The episode explores the Stooges' evolution through various lineup changes after Curly's stroke in 1946, their transition from theatrical shorts to television (which cemented their legacy by bringing them into millions of homes), and the vital contributions of supporting players like Vernon Dent and Christine McIntyre.
This deep-dive conversation isn't just about slaps and nyuk-nyuks – it's about how three brothers from Brooklyn created a comedy institution that has outlasted virtually all their contemporaries, continuing to generate laughter more than a century after they first stepped on stage. Whether you're a lifelong fan or curious newcomer, you'll gain a new appreciation for comedy's most enduring trio.
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yes, hello, testing, testing, that's the go-to. You clear your throat before you begin to broadcast. Eat some lemon heads or something you know. Get that intensity in the mouth going. How are ya? Hey, happy Friday. Hey, today is the ninth day of May 2025, it is the Pat's Peeps podcast, number 259. We just keep going Again. We're just going to keep doing them and keep doing them and thank you if you've been listening. And as I'm looking out my studio windows today into the beautiful foothills of Northern California, it is another gorgeous day. Spring continues. I'm loving it.
Speaker 1:I've been saying that every day and, by the way, I'm also the host of the Pat Walsh Show, a radio show heard on KFBK. For those of you who do not know that, kfbk in Sacramento, that would be 93.1 FM, 1530 AM, which is the big flamethrower that's your big. You could be in the middle of Arizona, ryan Harris, who's joining me, and still hear KFBK. Ryan Harris, you could be at Detroit Lake, because I've done this with my cousin, johnny, and he said what kind of radio station do you work at? And I said I'll bet you I can turn on our little boom box here and pick it up on the AM band right here. It was like they were broadcasting in a tent next to us. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. When you're talking about a 50,000 watt flamethrower, like 1530 KFBK has been for decades, that's what you get. And as you know, pat, as a radio guy, when the sun goes down and the sunlight isn't triggering the ionosphere, am signals go hog wild. That's actually true. The sun comes out and the ionosphere starts going crazy and that's what keeps AM signals in check. But then when sun is down, all bets are off. I've listened to stations from all over the country, especially at night, and that's the beauty of AM radio.
Speaker 1:So the ionosphere is what keeps the AM radios in check. Can you elaborate just a little bit on that?
Speaker 2:Well, you know all I can tell you. I'm not an astrophysicist or a scientist of any kind.
Speaker 2:But I do know that there are particles in the ionosphere that are stirred up and get more active when the sunlight hits them and that sort of suppresses an AM radio signal. And that's why at night we do what they call powering down and going directional, because usually an AM broadcast transmitter array is three sticks, not just one tower, and you can adjust the power on those so that it's more powerful and sort of aims the signal in one direction and beyond that it's. You have to read the FCC handbook on powering down a hip, which, by the way, by the way, that's a really good book to read.
Speaker 1:If you just need to pass a little time, you just read that FCC handbook. That's a good one, you know, throw that in the bathroom, it's a good read. Hey, by the way, talk to you. So Ryan Harris is joining us, and Ryan is a longtime colleague of mine at KFBK radio in Sacramento, um, and he's. Then he moves to Seattle and all. But the main thing about it is you know, when people leave or you know they go to another station, what have you? Maybe in your business someone moves to another business or another, they do something else. They'll say, hey, uh, you know we should keep in touch, and then you never do. But Ryan Harris, on the other hand, while no astrophysicist explaining this very, very well, um, ryan and I have kept in touch and become very, very good friends over the years. As a matter of fact, ryan has traveled now what three times with this to europe is. It's been two or three times only twice.
Speaker 2:I'm hoping for number three, to go to Sicily with our friends at Conservative Tours in late October. Let's get a little plug in for Ken Chase and Conservative Tours, because not only is Ken brilliant getting these tours put together and gets us in all the nicest hotels and takes us to all the important sites and has knowledge of everything as it relates to World War II like nobody I've ever seen off the top of his head, but Ken also, even though he didn't have to, I said, hey, do you have any recommendations for a hotel in Paris? He said, oh yeah, stay at the Pullman Perry Tour Eiffel. And I said, okay, no problem, so I get there. I get a room, it's got a balcony and I'm 500 yards from the Eiffel Tower with a view of the tower from my balcony. And it was a super nice hotel, great location, and this is the kind of care that you get from Ken and conservative tours, because he really does. We all become friends and Ken is included in that. You know I got the airport in Milan he had met me one time before last year immediately came up to me hey, ryan, how are you? Shook my hand, recognized me right off the bat, and so you know you really can't beat it and the Sicily tour is going to be unreal. I really want to try to go on it. I mean because I'd love to go to Sicily, but especially for the Godfather tour portion. So I'm ready. I'm ready, and you should be ready, to conservative tours dot com.
Speaker 2:Look for the Pat Walsh trip to Sicily in late October, not the other guy, that's one day off. Don't want to go with that guy, you'll want to go with Pat. Thank you, because going on these tours with Pat is so much. Yeah, forget this Dom Giordano guy, whoever he is, some radio hack from back east that we don't know. No, I kid, because the other radio people that we've come across, like Dawn Stensland from Philadelphia on this last trip, she was a delight. So I joke about that. But you really want to go along with Pat for sure, because Pat makes it fun, pat's engaged and he gets to know everybody and he's just like one of the gang, even though he's supposed to be the celebrity host, he's just one of the gang.
Speaker 1:It is so fun, man, you know, uh thank you, ryan for saying that because I enjoy it. I genuinely love it. I love to hang out with everyone and you know, we just, you know we go to restaurants together, we're shopping together, we're drinking together, we're just, uh, seeing some amazing things. And going back to Ken Chase again, who owns and operates I guess you might say for a lack of a better term, I guess conservative tours. It's because of him that I have been able to now travel a lot through Europe. I mean the places I have seen which I never in my life dreamed that I would ever see, these places.
Speaker 1:I start to think about it, ryan. I'm like I'd start checking this off my list and this and this and this, you know, just recently, I mean, and you can throw a million things and not a million, but you can throw a lot of things out there. You go, wow, I've seen this. But you know, for instance, you just went to Paris. You were at the Jim Morrison grave. I've been there thanks to conservative tours there, palaszczuk Cemetery, you know, there's just beyond that, just so many things. Seeing these countries, italy was beautiful, spectacular. So I say thank you to Ken Chase and conservative tours.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely 100%. And I tell you. You know, I just went off on him for about two minutes. He's not sending me a check, I'm saying that just because I love the show it's so fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's great, and Ryan is so fun to travel with. As a matter of fact, one of the highlights of this last trip, when we went to the Italian Riviera, for me, Ryan was doing our podcast. It was like in the 240s, maybe late 240s somewhere in there, If you go back and listen or look for it.
Speaker 1:It was the Florence laundromat sessions, where Ryan was doing his laundry and we just decided you know, let's just go in there, let's do a podcast, because you know what I like the sound of the washing machine and the dryer and all that and who expects you to do. No one else is doing a podcast from a laundromat, probably anywhere. As I'm thinking about this, this is now actually my second laundromat podcast.
Speaker 2:I just thought about that. I was thinking that exact same thing. We did one last year in Sorrento.
Speaker 1:Well then, if that's the case, then this is my third, because I did one in Colfax as well. So I guess laundromat is the thing for some weird reason. The other reason I was thinking of Ryan today. Then I want to get into what we were talking about, the reason that I thought about Ryan and thought well, because I'm sitting here, going, you know you have to produce these podcasts you got to think of stuff to talk about. What am I going to come up with today? And Ryan sends me a text message and it's this One of my most hated songs of all time, of all time. I'm sorry, if you give me a top ten list, I might do this on my show sometime. Top five of most despised songs it's this one. And, by the way, nice, throw that, this guy's got here.
Speaker 2:My motto's always been when it's right, it's right. Why wait until the middle of a cold, dark night?
Speaker 1:Ah, that's.
Speaker 2:And I, pat, I know you are not a fan of that song. Honestly, I have loved that song since it was brand new, when I was a kid and I didn't know what it meant. Oh really, it made me think of yeah, I had.
Speaker 1:No, of course, I was like you know seven years old, but you loved it. I had no idea.
Speaker 2:I'm wondering about it and I like the song and it obviously has some connotations that can be humorous, like I think, about the f, the episode of arrested development where they kept singing that song at karaoke. It was like the relatives and at one point it was mother and son and then the other was the male and female cousins, and then they start to realize what it's about and they're like we shouldn't be singing this song together. But what gets me is it would come on the radio. And you know my mom was really sharp and nothing ever got past her and I can't imagine that she didn't know what this song was about and let it play on the radio.
Speaker 2:I mean, I remember when Marvin Gaye came out with Sexual Healing and my mom heard that song and said man, if little old ladies heard this song they'd be killing all of us Because it was so out there. You know so risque what about let's Get it On?
Speaker 1:What about let's Get it On that too?
Speaker 2:that too, that too, yeah, of course, of course.
Speaker 1:Okay, that Modern Family. That is hilarious.
Speaker 2:Here you go to a little afternoon delight, but we'll stick to folks again and make this far too nice. Oh, you're getting so excited. Sky rocket can fly.
Speaker 1:Afternoon delight Everybody sing. Wait for it.
Speaker 3:Afternoon delight.
Speaker 1:Ladies and gentlemen, I implore youyan harris, everyone.
Speaker 2:Wow, that was delightful, thank you. It's been a while since I've heard you, and I are not. You and I are not doing that when a karaoke together, though no, but that modern family thing is absolutely hilarious.
Speaker 1:There was the other one where they what was it? You could probably correct me on this, but I think, for I can never remember characters' names the Rams fan. He's a Rams fan and for his anniversary he got the bass player. From what was the song that? Oh God, the song True, by oh God, who is it? Oh, spandau Ballet, spandau Ballet. And they got the bass player in the living room. Oh, this is our song. No, this isn't really our song. Do you remember that episode? That was a great show.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen that in a while I, I think I remember that episode, but the one I was talking about that was actually arrested development or arrested development I'm sorry on howard show, where they were so dysfunctional.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, you're right, every last one of them were just toxic. But that show was hilarious driving around because they had an airline and the whole company went bankrupt and all they had left was the truck with the stairs that are supposed to go up to the airplane. So they were driving around and my and my favorite one with the stair car was when it got stolen and was taken south of the border to Tijuana and people were running up the stairs and hopping the border wall.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, for some reason I misspoke there and I thought you had said Modern Family, so whatever, who cares? It's a great show. Yeah, so here's the reason. I misspoke there and I thought you had said Modern Family, so whatever.
Speaker 2:Who cares? It's a great show.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So here's the other reason I got Ryan on Because, ryan, when we were traveling, we always end up here and there we'll end up talking, inevitably, about one of Ryan's favorite comedy. What would you call them teams? Just for lack of a better term, and one of mine as well. I'll, just for lack of a better term, and one of mine as well, and Ryan, I know, is pretty much. If there's an expert on the Three Stooges, it is Ryan, harris and Ryan.
Speaker 1:I thought what the heck? Let's take a few minutes and talk about the legendary Three Stooges Because for my money, as I told Ryan, if you were to say well, who's the top five funniest people, I could literally put all three of them in there. But I'm just going to pick one. And I got to say number one on my list is all. Time is curly. Uh, and to me he's the funniest guy ever, followed very closely by perhaps Bill Murray or someone like that. But can we take a few minutes just to kind of talk about the three stooges? I know you're a huge fan oh, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:And you know to your point about me being a fan. It's not just that, I've watched them all my life and and I definitely have from a very, very young age back in the day when they would be on it. You know, two o'clock in the afternoon on kbhk channel 44 in San Francisco, the local independent station. That kind of doesn't exist anymore. But you know I over the years got some books and did some reading on them and you know you call them a comedy team, I call them a comedy institution because they've been around, they've been performing for more than a hundred years and they're still beloved and there's not many, I mean, people still like the Marx brothers and and Laurel and Hardy and and acts like that.
Speaker 2:But I don't think anybody has had that much sort of. You know, I wanted to say universal love for that long. But you know, when I grew up with the Stooges it was always the guys like the Stooges and the ladies were always like, oh, those guys are so silly, how can you watch them knocking each other around like that? But then, as time went on, I found more and more girls who appreciated the three Stooges because their fathers watched them with them. In fact, my own daughter, chloe, uh, loves the stooges and you know I did it to myself. I created the monster, but every time I stubbed my toe or something like that, she's laughing because I had her watching the three stooges.
Speaker 1:That's great, that is great, you know.
Speaker 2:so I'm oh, oh, oh, oh, and she's cracking up over in the corner.
Speaker 1:And to your point. I'm glad you did that. It's true, I was actually going to ask you about that, for whatever reason. Men, most men not all, obviously, and that's not going to be the same thing with anybody, but most men they'll love the Stooges. Women, exactly like you said, like I. How do you watch it? I know that, kitty O'Neill, who you know very well, my colleague at KFPK. She loves the three Stooges but she's one of the few women I know that just love the three Stooges.
Speaker 2:I don't know, you know, I think it's just sort of in our nature that you know, guys love the slapstick and right you know, the ladies are like.
Speaker 2:All those guys are just so stupid yeah I mean, that's what's funny about them, that they're so stupid.
Speaker 2:I mean, they weren't really stupid, you know, they were very smart to have gotten as far as they've gotten and be, you know, still be, uh loved for as long as they have. But it's just one of those sort of uh socio-cultural phenomenon that at least in the early days and then when the boys moved into television in the 50s, you know there was a definite dividing line. But you know, pat, a lot of you know, since we're talking about the fellas and their history, even still to this day a lot of folks don't realize that Moe Howard, curly Howard, whose real name was Jerome, jerry, and Shemp Howard, whose real name was Sam, were brothers. That's right, yes, and in fact Shemp got his name because their mother was from Lithuania and she had a thick accent and she would, you know, go out on the stoop there. They grew up in Brighton Beach in Brooklyn, right down the way, I mean walking distance from Coney Island. You can imagine growing up there, what a great place.
Speaker 3:Beach right there.
Speaker 2:Coney Island right there, the amusement parks and all of that. And their mother, mrs Howard, would you know, go out on the stoop and call for Sam, but with her accent it's Shem, shem and he became Shemp and so they all called him Shemp.
Speaker 1:Is that right, I had no idea where that came from.
Speaker 2:That's how Shemp became Shemp and even as young boys living right there, they would go down to the beach in front of Coney Island and they would just perform together. They would make up these bits and do their act, and that's that's really. You know, how they got themselves started. And then that eventually worked its way into vaudeville and it was just Moe and Shemp Curly was kind of off on his own doing his own thing and they connected with a guy, a vaudeville performer, by the name of Ted Healy. And it was Mo and Shemp working with Healy for years.
Speaker 2:And they eventually, on vaudeville, came across Larry who was a violin player, fiddle player, and his wife was a dancer and they would perform together. And they took one look at Larry and said we got to get this guy into the act. And then that's how they were, ted Healy and his Stooges. And then, after they parted ways with Healy, they were, you know, the three Stooges on their own. And I tell you what, since I'm talking about that, you know I'm filled with knowledge they're parting. Go ahead, sorry.
Speaker 1:I don't want to interrupt your stream of thought. I got a million questions, but go ahead. I mean I don't like to interrupt someone's stream of thought, so please continue.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I'll make one more point and then I'll take questions. So their parting of ways with healy was not amicable, uh, and it started because they had made a movie with ted healy called soup to nuts, at really early in the depression and it didn't do well. But the studio heads wanted to sign the boys on their own. A couple of them did. There was actually some competition over in between Columbia, where they ended up, and 20th Century Fox, and probably Warner Brothers too, I believe, and Healy basically dug in and said no, I own you guys. And even if you know, they went and were performing live shows, you know, on the stage on the vaudeville circuit, and Healy threatened to bomb the theaters, and so they had to go a different direction. Instead of going back east, they went up to Seattle to perform instead trying to dodge Ted Healy. But eventually, you know, they parted ways and they signed with Columbia and there's more history to talk about after that. But, pat, what are your questions?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, Listen, but Healy threatened to bomb the theaters. I had no clue. I had never heard of that. He's threatened to bomb the theaters.
Speaker 2:He was notorious for being a drinker and when he would drink he had quite often a violent temper and in fact ended up, I believe, being killed in a confrontation in a bar or something oh, you're kidding as a result, and so, in a way, I mean, you know, none of the boys were happy about it because he was still their friend and you know they cared about him even though he was rough on them. But it did sort of set them free to go on their own.
Speaker 1:So that boy. That is really interesting. I'm talking with Ryan Harris, a longtime colleague and friend of mine and an expert on the Three Stooges friend of mine and an expert on the three stooges, you know. So it's interesting because the you referenced soup to nuts, um, and so soup to nuts, this was pre curly, right, this was shimp and, as you mentioned, that movie did not do well. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. So then they bring in and so they replace Shemp with Curley, is that correct? And then Shemp came back after, I think, 1946. Curley had a stroke and they brought Shemp back. Is that the way that kind of went?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in fact you know the reason that Shemp left the act was people. Another thing people don't really know about Shemp is he was a bit of a head case, was afraid of a lot of things and paranoid about things. You know that he had to get out and you know Mo and Larry looked at each other and said, well, geez, what are we going to do now with the Three Stooges? And of course Mo said, well, we have another brother. And that's when they brought Curly in and began their career making what they call two-reelers, the short films in the shorts department at Columbia. They run about 20 minutes because it's two reels of film. So that's how Curly came into the act. And you know you've mentioned it he's your favorite.
Speaker 2:This is a guy who's beloved by everybody because you know, like even the women who don't like the Three Stooges, you know, kind of had to look at Curly. Ah, you know he's an adorable guy. It's hard not look at Curly's. Ah, you know he's a he's an adorable guy. It's hard, not to hard, not to love Curly. And so, you know, curly ends up being everybody's favorite for me and I you know this is no slight on Curly because I, I absolutely love Curly myself, love Larry too, love Shemp I, I, you know with one exception we'll talk about later. I pretty much love them all.
Speaker 2:But my favorite was always Mo, and not just because, I mean, mo is funny on his own, you know, when he's mean and smacking the boys around and that kind of thing and that always makes me laugh. But what really would kill me is, you know, mo got more messed up than any of them and that always cracks me up. You know something will happen. You know they're trying to hide from somebody and they're sneaking around a corner and they think the person who's sneaking there next to them is out to get them and they bonk them over the head with a pipe and oh no, it's Mo, you know, or just crazy things that happen and Mo gets hurt. Well, so many times there's so many times.
Speaker 1:the reason that he's slapping the other fellas is because he got bonked on the head with a ladder you know Curly or Larry, you know what I mean. They're painters or hanging wallpaper, you know and they got the outfits and he turns and cranks Mo in the head so they get slapped. So I can see where you know Mo would be the guy that got injured a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And there's a couple of times where Mo actually got hurt and there's one that I think of called Pardon my Scotch, which is from 1935 or 1936. I think it's 1935. And it's right around the time time prohibition's going to end and they're working, you know, doing the carpentry work in a drugstore and the guy's trying to get liquor in the store to be there in time for the repeal of prohibition so he can start making money selling liquor and they're trying to install a door and Mo says, hey, I need you to cut me a board, while mo, standing on a table, curly, takes the circular saw and cuts the board and in the process also cuts the table.
Speaker 2:Mo turns around and falls because the table is broken. He broke two ribs on that fall, finished the shot and then went over into the corner to pass out because he didn't want to wreck the shot, he didn't want to call cut in the middle of the shot. And that's still in that film when you see Mo take that fall. He walks away with two broken ribs and you can't even tell by looking on his face. And what's the name of that one?
Speaker 1:again.
Speaker 2:Pardon, my Scotch.
Speaker 1:Pardon my Scotch, I'm going to look at that one. Um, yeah, because you know I've always been a huge fan, like I said, of, uh, of the three stooges it was. It's a bit confusing to me, even to this day. A couple of things I want to say. Perhaps you can clear this up for me. But one of them is it's kind of like I kind of compare it to, let's say, looney Tunes, like, let's say, I'm going to watch I can find them now on YouTube and I'll go on all Saturday mornings.
Speaker 1:I'm still a guy, I still like to wake up on Saturday mornings with my coffee and I like to watch Looney Tunes. Sometimes I'll watch the Three Stooges, um, I'll even watch Little Rascals or Our Gang or some of those things, right. But but on Looney Tunes I'm always amazed, ryan, how many and I've been watching these since I was a kid how many cartoons there are from Warner Brothers or Looney Tunes. I'm like, how many did you make? Because I've never seen this before. It's the same thing with the Stooges and I know that for a long time it seemed like they were either doing shorts or tv shorter films. It seems like they did you know longer films. So I'm not really sure what the difference did. Did they do the shorts and the longer films, and what was one made for tv and one made for the theater? How did that work?
Speaker 2:well, there's actually a very clear breakdown of that, because before television you might not be old enough to recall that you would go to the theater and you didn't just see a few trailers for other movies and then watch the movie you were going to see. They would have a newsreel and a cartoon and some other little featurette and then the feature film, and the idea was, for a nickel or a quarter or whatever it was at any given decade you'd go in and get a whole afternoon or evening's worth of entertainment, and those Three Stooges, two Reelers, were part of those set-up little shows before the feature film. And so that went on through the 30s and 40s and into the 50s. And then when television came around, they were so immensely popular by then there was no way that they weren't going to start making those films for television. But you mentioned how many of them they made. They made dozens and dozens of them.
Speaker 2:And you'll see his name in the credits Jules White. Jules White ran the shorts department at Columbia. He was basically the czar of the shorts department and once those guys were hit and became so popular, jules White had them cranking out. You know one or two of those things a week and you know one or two of those things a week. And then you know quick editing and you can see sometimes the editing is really bad and you know, you can tell it was done quick and dirty, just to, you know, get them, get them printed and out to the theaters for, for a new one, uh, you know, every every week or two. So they were really really cranking them out, uh, and I would, I would guess. I don't know a hundred percent for sure, but by the time television came around, you know they had enough that they could show, but they were still making new ones. So I, you know, I, I guess, they would, you know, probably had slowed the production down. Plus, the guys were getting a little older and they were, they were big stars.
Speaker 2:But you know, they, uh, they never. They signed a contract. The only thing you have to remember, when they signed that contract with Columbia, it was right in the heart of the Depression and they signed it for $20,000 a year and Columbia owned their likenesses into perpetuity, which means forever. So never got a raise the entire time. It was always $20,000 a year and Columbia owned them, owned their likenesses, and it wasn't until much, much later when Mo's daughter, joan, uh, and her husband got involved, uh, you know, after, after Mo died In fact we just, uh, on the 4th of May, had the 50th anniversary of Mo Howard's death in 1975.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't until Joan and her husband, norman, got involved that the family was, you know, granted the rights and able to continue the Three Stooges legacy. But television, really, I mean, they were already popular when it, you know, came to them being in the theaters and made their bones, really made a lot of money doing live shows. They would tour, you know, when they would get their summer break from filming or what have you, and were immensely popular there. But television, really, you know, solidified their legacy because now they're in everybody's homes just about every single day. At that point in the 50s, and this is what you're hearing.
Speaker 1:I mean that's unmistakable. You hear that it's like. I mean it's not the perfect theme song, it's perfect for the Stooges. I just can't believe. It Isn't that great. It's just like the perfect three.
Speaker 2:Stooges. You're right, you know. It's like you could have the TV on in the background and be in the kitchen or something. And you hear that and you go, oh, the three Stooges are on, exactly, you know I'm speaking for myself. I go running toward the tv. All the stooges are on. That's like you just know that's what you're getting. Uh, with the, with the stooges, and you know, and again, the television was was huge for them he would mention curly, you know curly in 1946, uh, as you said, had a stroke.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he was unable to continue performing with the boys, and that was right before they were getting ready. I mean, television was even in the late 40s there, you know, really brand new. And you know Columbia saw the writing on the wall. So they say, hey, you got to keep this thing going and Mo of course really wanted gotta keep this thing going and mo of course really wanted to keep the act going. Yeah, so that's when they brought shemp back and of course, it was, he was older and it was much safer.
Speaker 1:Before you get back, I want to get. I want to ask something about shemp, you know, because after he, after he parted ways with the stooges, he did like a solo career, like his own thing. That must not have gone anywhere, ryan, because I've never I don't believe I've ever seen anything solo from shimp. So what was he doing when he went out on his own, do you know?
Speaker 2:he did a ton of films. I mean he wasn't always the star of the films, but shimp howard absolutely had a very prolific film career and I want to say he did a bunch back in the day uh, do you know?
Speaker 1:if there was, were they serious roles, did they? Or did he? Did he have to kind of continue? That shemp kind of uh character no, they were.
Speaker 2:They were mostly comedy, and I want to say it was, uh, burt lahr, but it was one of the guys who had been in the Wizard of Oz, who had done a sort of a series of these, you know. So they were all B films, they weren't anything. You know they weren't putting them up for the Best Picture Award, you know the Oscars, or anything. But he worked with Shemp in quite a few of these films and you'll see an old black and white somewhere every once in a while and comedy and Shemp will pop up. So Shemp was around. In fact, shemp actually one time won the contest for the ugliest man in Hollywood. Now, the thing to keep in mind is it was Shemp's manager who created the contest to generate publicity for Shemp. So you know, shemp has the unofficial award for ugliest man in Hollywood.
Speaker 1:You could never have that now. You could never do that. Ryan Harris is joining us. Three Stooges expert, a good friend, longtime colleague so Curly, unfortunately who I just loved, and we could go more and more into these. You know each character and all that, but there's I just, you know, when he dies of a heart attack November 22nd of 55 um, and then they bring in this guy named Joe Palma who stands in um and so he's, I guess somehow he works in to complete some of these Shemp era shorts because they still had them under contract. What can you say? What do you know about Joe Palma?
Speaker 2:Well, Joe Palma performed under the name Joe Besser.
Speaker 1:So is that Joe Besser? So that's Joe Palmer. Is Joe Besser, otherwise known as the fake Shemp? Okay, I didn't realize that that was the same person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the fake stooge I call him. I cannot stand it, ryan.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm not a Joe Besser guy, sorry.
Speaker 2:No, I'm right there with you. I mean he was terrible and you know they had a couple of guys lined up, including a fellow by the name of Joe Dorita, and the studio said, no, go with Besser, because we already have him under contract. He was a big player in film. Like I say, he showed up and I, you know, don't like Joe Besser enough to do the research and figure out, you know remember what shows he was on. But he would show up in other other TV shows in the in the 50s and 60s. But you know, according to the Stooges legend, you know he wasn't the most cooperative. He did it because he had to, because he was under contract. He thought he was more of an actor, a thespian, than he actually was. Apparently, at one point was filming with the boys and stopped them in the middle of a shot because he didn't want to take a pie in the face. I mean, that's the bit. Oh, really, that's the bit.
Speaker 1:So, by the way, I hope I'm not putting you on the spot, but if I might tell peopleyan does an outstanding impression, impression of joe besser. Do you want to give us your joe besser?
Speaker 2:oh, you mean, oh, you guys are so silly, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was just ridiculous I can just picture him doing that with his hand it didn't fit with those guys at all, you know, and so I.
Speaker 2:It didn't last for long. They might have made I think 20 of them or so with Joe Besser, and at that point that's when they started moving into feature films. They always wanted to do feature films, ever since they did Soup to Nuts back in the early 30s. And so, you know, columbia said, okay, let's they shut down the shorts department. When Harry Cohn, the studio head there at Columbia, died, the shorts department died with them. They shut them down immediately and in fact, as the story goes, the boys show up to work one day and they weren't even allowed on the Columbia lot. If you can imagine, one of your biggest cash cows the three stooges and the fellas couldn't even get on the lot. That's just. That's a, you know, no pun intended, that's a real, a real slap in the face. Well, two things come to mind.
Speaker 1:One, why couldn't they get on the lot? And the other thing is, isn't it taking a big risk, ryan, to say, okay, look, we want to do feature films? Now I take it, this is after the loss of Curly, after he passed, and now you've got these guys filling in. You know, to me, uh, and I don't know that I've seen a lot of their full-length films, but to me I think that the and maybe I'm just used to it like this the, the stooges that I watched. I can't remember the length of these things, but they were like mini movies To me. That seems like about the right length for the slapstick of the Stooges. I can't hardly imagine them in a full-length movie, especially not having Curly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know the shorts, the two readers, they usually ran roughly between 17 and 21 minutes, so 18, 19 minutes usually for each one and, as you say, that was usually enough. And it's usually them running away from somebody at the end and the music comes back on and that's the end and the music comes back on and you know that's the end of it. They've done something silly and everybody wants to go after them and they're running away. Well, you know, when they moved into feature films, they were older too, so the pace was a little slower. There was still some of the slapstick stuff and you know, the films are okay.
Speaker 2:And I mentioned Joe Dorita. Yes, he ended up taking on the name Curly Joe. Yes, because he had a slight resemblance to Curly and, to Joe Dorita's credit, not only was he 100% loyal to the boys and to the act, but you know, he gave Curly his due respect. He never tried to actually imitate Curly or mimic the things that he did. You know, he sort of, you know, did it in his own way. And so I, you know, in a way, I I really have some love for for Curly Joe Dorita, because he he showed that respect and he had an understanding of this as, at this point, an American icon, these guys as an act, and so he did what he could. The films they didn't do that great at the box office but people loved the Stooges you might have seen at one point curly joe also did the uh, the three stooges cartoons with them. That was kind of a a short-lived thing.
Speaker 1:That's the next thing I wanted to ask you about. What are your thoughts on the three stooges cartoons? I remember those, um, didn't they use different uh voices for the characters in the cartoon?
Speaker 2:uh, you know, I'm not sure, uh, because I wasn't a huge fan of the cartoon so I didn't spend a lot of time watching it, but I feel like, I feel like the the fellas might have done some of their own voices. They might have had other voice actors. Uh, I mean, it wasn't like I'll compare it to another show that ended up becoming an animated series, that's the original Star Trek. The Star Trek fans will tell you that the Star Trek animated series was basically a fourth season of the original show and they had all of the original voice actors except Chekhov, because they could. They didn't want to pay for Walter Koenig to do it, but they had, you know, they had Bill Shatner and Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelly. They had them, they had them all there and I. So you know, I I want to say that the the fellas did some of their own voices in those cartoons, but I'm honestly not 100 sure that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I'll have to look at them. Yeah, no, I, I, but I just remember them so well and I thought I'd heard that, uh, they didn't. They that they did not do the voices in that, but, um, I could be wrong on that. Um, you know what they, obviously at the time they were. One of the things I'll do now that we have the technology, ryan, is, I will like some of the scenes when they would use have to do some kind of a stunt and they would use like these stunt dummies. It'd be like a doll or something, and I love the pause it right then, like it's supposed to be one of them going over the fence or whatever, and you'd pause it. You could see clearly now with the technology that it was just like this big dummy. You know that they were throwing over the fence. You ever do that. You ever check that out.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I mean, because how many times did the curly dummy land on top of the other two, you know? And then they cut away to the three of them standing up brushing the dust off? You know, hey, what are you doing? And bam Mo gives them a smack. You know, yes, yeah, off. You know, hey, what are you doing? Bam mo gives them a smack. You know, yeah, so yeah, no, I mean they.
Speaker 2:And now you know that's the other thing that that people you know think, boy, they were really just beating the hell out of each other and sometimes it was a little rough. And you know, I mentioned, you know, mo got hurt and pardon my scotch, and I can't remember the other one, but there's one where mo is dressed as a woman and he's wearing heels and he twists his ankle. And I can't remember the other one. But there's one where Mo is dressed as a woman and he's wearing heels and he twists his ankle and you can see him hopping off on one leg into the bedroom and falling onto the bed so he can get off of his twisted ankle.
Speaker 2:But the actual slapping and the poking, like when they were with Healy and Vaudeville Healy used to say they got to hear it in the back of the house, and so they would really. You know, mo would really slap them hard just so the sound could be heard. But then they get to Jules White and he says, hey, you guys don't have to do that. He says, watch this, try this. And we just give them a light slap and they play that slapping sound effect because of the Foley. They had a Foley board. It was a newfangled invention called the Foley board and they would have all these sounds in there and they could just basically hit a button and plug in the slap sound and they wouldn't have to smack the car out of each other.
Speaker 1:By the way, I'm so glad you brought that up because I did not know what that was, was, but that is such a great point. Is that? That, I think, really is what helped make the stooges as funny as they were? And I think that is always overlooked. Is that slap sound effect or any of the sound effects that you hear, the doink, you know any of the effects that they put into the Stooges. It just enhances it so much.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, the metal pipe over the head, that sort of thing, and those things. They weren't really hitting them with a metal pipe, those were made out of rubber. I'm sure it didn't feel good, but you weren't getting conked with a metal pipe, right? And the other one I'm trying to know. Just thinking about it makes you laugh. But the other one I wanted to point out too, you know, the big one was the eye poke.
Speaker 1:Well, you don't think Moe was really poking him in the eyes, do you? I don't think so. I wouldn't imagine he was not. That'd be pretty tough to endure over the years.
Speaker 2:No, moe always hit him on the brow bone, but it looks good on film. So it looks like because he's hitting him on the brow bone and then they immediately react and it's so quick you can't really tell the difference.
Speaker 1:And that's the kicker. So that's in itself pretty dangerous. I mean, what are the odds you're not going to miss hitting the brow bone when someone's going to go directly to the eyes, so Mo must have been a very good shot. You know, I can't even finish this podcast, ryan, without um saying that I, I, there are. I wanted to talk about Vernon Dean. When I talk about, when I think about Vernon Dean, to me he is really almost like the fourth stooge in a way. And there's others, uh, supporting actors and actresses christina mcintyre, verna dent, simona boniface boniface, I can never say her last name um, bud jameson, but there was a. These supporting actors that you would see. You would never know their names. They got very little credit in my estimation, but there they are in all of these episodes and they were. You know whether it was a pie fight or they were hiring someone, or it was a lawyer's office, or whatever it was. Uh, there they were and they were.
Speaker 2:They were great in these, in their role as well yes, absolutely, and in fact there was another one, oh, that I wanted to look up. Uh, james c morton, bald guy with wire-rimmed glasses. He's in Pardon, my Scotch. He's the guy who's trying to get the boys to make their scotch. He's a distiller and he wants to sell it. But he's also in a very famous one, disorder in the Court, where he's like the court reporter and he's wearing the toupee and his toupee.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Knocked off. You know he's one of those and I'm so glad you'd mentioned but Jameson cause. But Jameson goes back almost to the beginning with those guys and Bud was actually from my hometown of Vallejo, california.
Speaker 1:Oh, is that right I?
Speaker 2:only found that out recently. I and come to find out he was born and raised in Vallejo, which is amazing to me. Raymond Burr was as well, by the way, raymond Burr, born and raised in Vallejo and eventually moved over across the bridge to Crockett. Raymond Burr was no Bud Jameson, let me tell you. But you're right. You're right. Those big Vernon Dent was another one you know, and they were kind of like spoils to these. Guys was another one, you know, and they were kind of like spoils to these guys.
Speaker 2:You know they were the straight men who just can't, you know, wrap their heads around the goofy things that these guys are doing. And you know that wouldn't have been able to do an act with these guys that are so abnormal without a bunch of supposedly normal people around them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And in fact I'm also glad you mentioned Christine McIntyre because, uh, there's one with Shemp called Brightless Broom, where he has to get married within 48 hours or he loses a big inheritance and there's a scene where he's trying to approach Christine McIntyre and she thinks he's you know what they used to call a matcher. You know some guy, some creepy guy, coming at him, and she's got to, you know, repeatedly, smack him around and she was apparently really timid about it and afraid to do it, and Shemp said no, look, you've got to unload on me, christine, you've got to let it happen. And the scene that you see she just wails on him probably a good 30 times and if she wasn't able to let go, that scene wouldn't have been the same, wouldn't have been the same at all. So those big players absolutely 100% made it. But you know, part of the trick there too, is those people worked with the Stooges for so long because the Stooges really were consummate professionals and they were great guys. They all loved the guys and working for them. And this is another thing I wanted to bring up, pat, you know, to talk about the guys, how they were off camera. Yes, you know, mo, you know, and that was the thing. How they were off camera was also part of what made that collaboration work.
Speaker 2:Now everybody knows Mo as the leader of the gang right Well off screen. Mo was also the business manager and Mo was a hell of a businessman. Scooped up tons of real estate, most of it in North Hollywood but part of it in Hollywood proper. I mean just acres and acres and acres. That's how Mo made. His fortune was from real estate. And you can still drive around Hollywood and you'll see these old wood frame apartment buildings and they'll say Howard Apartments on them. Those were Moe's apartment buildings. Moe was a landlord, so Moe was the one you know like. He made sure that the boys because the boys were a little nuts that they kicked down a little of their salary so that Moe could sock it away for them. Now, larry liked to party and gamble when Prohibition was on. Larry and his wife Mabel were over at the speakeasy drinking when they weren't working and playing cards or doing whatever. And you know Larry would have gambled away all of his money if it hadn't been for Mo.
Speaker 2:Curly also liked to whoop it up and party and loved the ladies and had a couple of wives and eventually had one that stuck around for a while. I mentioned Shemp. He was kind of a head case kind of had some things going on but otherwise basically lived a relatively normal life until he passed away in 1955. So you know they had, they had interesting lies.
Speaker 2:Moe had a family, had kids, had a couple of daughters, curly had a child or two and there was one that there might have, might not have been a relationship. But there's this fella out there that calls himself curly g, because he found out his grandmother took him to the movies one time and showed him the three stooges and said, hey, curly's your grandfather. And so he has sort of picked up the mantle and he kind of looks like him a little bit and they're kind of goofy, but he does a youtube, uh, uh, he has a youtube channel, the curly g channel, and uh, you know he does some things. Shemp's great-granddaughter is his, you know, like second cousin once removed, and she's, uh, an online like influencer. You know it's funny because she's kind of a cute girl but at the same time she totally looks like Shemp.
Speaker 1:Who you said earlier was voted ugliest actor in Hollywood Real quick and I don't mean to gloss over this, but we're almost an hour into this and I appreciate really talking to you about this, ryan. Today we're talking to Ryan Harris. So how did we lose Mo and Larry?
Speaker 2:Okay, so Larry, as he got older, ended up actually in the old actor's home and I believe at one point Larry had a stroke as well and was confined to a wheelchair but still had his faculties about him. And you know Mo would go and visit him, would go over to the home and hang out with Larry. And I read something somebody had posted on social media one time about how they were a fan and they went over to the old actor's home because they wanted to meet Larry and they knew he was living there. And he says I was waiting for about 20 minutes and Mo shows up to see Larry. So he ends up, they bring Larry out in his wheelchair and Mo's pushing the wheelchair back down the hall and the two of them were going back and forth. Larry goes hey, I had this dog but I had to have him castrated. It cost me a hundred bucks. And mo says a hundred bucks, that's 50 bucks of all like they just, they never, they never could.
Speaker 2:They could never shut it off, these guys, even as old, old men.
Speaker 2:And so when it, when it reached a point where Larry couldn't perform anymore, they had one more movie kind of dialed in and they brought in you talk about those bit players another one who was in sort of the later years, and especially the ones in television, a fellow by the name of Emil Sitka, and the one and I mentioned this one to you when we were talking about him casually Emil was in one called the one called and I mentioned this one to you when we were talking about him casually Emil was in one called the one called Brideless Groom, where Shemp needs to get married and he's playing the justice of the peace and as all the antics are going on, he keeps trying to perform the wedding ceremony and he keeps saying old hands, you love birds.
Speaker 2:And they show a scene from that in the movie Pulp Fiction, where Eric Stoltz is sitting there eating a bowl of cereal late at night and watching the Stooges on TV, and that's when John Travolta calls him up and Uma Thurman's having the overdose. Oh, wow. And so Quentin Tarantino gave Emil Sitka a screen credit because he showed that bit from the Stooges. But they brought in Emil to sort of stand in for Larry, and then Moe died in 1975. And once Moe was gone, that was the end of it.
Speaker 2:So they never did make the movie with Emil, but he was another one who was loyal to him and was with him for a long time.
Speaker 1:I believe I remember, if memory serves me correctly, it seems like I remember seeing Moe doing an interview on the Mike Douglas show in color and he had gray hair and it was wow. You know, I couldn't believe that was Mo. You know they were sitting there talking to Mo because it was just interesting to me to see a stooge in that context. You know where they're just talking and having a conversation rather than slapping and all the slapstick. So I can remember that. Was he on Mike Douglas? Was it Mike Douglas?
Speaker 2:Yes, and Mike Douglas was great about that. Mo I guess every once in a while would just sort of show up at the Mike Douglas show and Mike always had him on. And you can find a couple of those Mike Douglas interviews with Mo on YouTube. They're out there. I've watched them a few times because I just love seeing Mo talking about it In fact I came across one not long ago.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a Mike Douglas, it was a black and white 1950s television and it's from a guy who's like the man in the field. Hey, we're at the home of Mo Howard with his, his family, and here's larry fine, and joe dorita, and you know they're interviewing mo and they're having a barbecue.
Speaker 2:Mo loved the barbecue at the house and, uh, they were having a barbecue and this guy's interviewing them about, uh, you know how they did the act and and the whole bit that's uh, I'll have to find that again and send you the link, because that's about how great would that be to be at the barbecue at Moe's house with the stooges. Oh, I would be at a barbecue at Moe's house. 100%.
Speaker 1:Let's take a listen, ryan. Just for the heck of it. I don't own the copyright to this, nothing like that. Don't freak out, not you, Ryan, but anyone who may be eavesdropping. Um, if you go back. So I don't know what year this was, but let's just take a little. Just a little, listen to this. This is always a big favorite. This is, um. This is from. Oh well, I'll just tell you what it is swinging the alphabet. You know?
Speaker 1:swinging the alphabet, ryan oh yes, here we go, ladies and go, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to sit down, I'm going to test your mental you know what I love about this, Ryan, as we start, here's Mo addressing the class and they're in sort of graduation gowns and caps and they're instructing the class and the one young lady is standing. I just love the way he's telling you to sit down.
Speaker 3:Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to sit down. I'm going to test your mental. To sit down. I'm going to test your mental coordination, sit down. I'm going to test your mental coordination with a little sit down, with a little number called swing the alphabet. Swing it, swing it Right. I'll explain it so even you can understand. My colleagues will assist. Ready sister, get that junk out of here. Come on, boys Scram. I'll give you the idea in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:All Curly had to do was move, and I laughed.
Speaker 3:B-I-B-I-B-O-B. I'll give you the correct demonstration Cutie pie pound those horse teeth. B-a-b-e-b-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-i-b-h-a-c-e-c-c-i sicky sigh, c-o-s-o sicky sigh so. C-u-s-o. Sicky sigh, so so Get the idea, girls. Now we'll all join together on the letter D D-A-D-E-D-D-I-D-I-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-U-D-I-D-O-D-U-D-I-D-O-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O-D-I-D-O. I just always loved the situations they would put the Stooges in.
Speaker 1:You know law firm or whatever. I'm sure you know all of the jobs that they do.
Speaker 2:Oh, there are three new professors coming to the college and then they show up to do something else and they're mistaken for the three professors. It was always that sort of setup. And then people don't understand why these guys are so nuts. Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Sort of set up. And then people don't understand why these guys are so nuts. Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was always. It was always three of something or other, uh, in fact, I.
Speaker 2:There's one where they take a trip to mexico and they end up getting involved in the bullfight, but there's this scene where they're having a conversation with a guy who only speaks Spanish. And so when I was a freshman in high school, my buddy and I, jason Zaleski he hasn't been with us for about 15 years, but he loved the Stooges too we watched a lot of Stooges together. And we went to our Spanish teacher, senora Larega, who was wonderful, and we said you know, we have this film about three gentlemen who traveled to Mexico. There's a lot of Spanish in it and it would be great to show it in the class. Oh, sure, bring it on in. And so we pop it in and ended up, you know, getting the teacher to let us watch the three stages in Spanish class, but the scene where there's a lot of Spanish speaking. She took an opportunity to use that as a lesson and we had a good time doing it.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:I used the classic Stooges setup. Oh yes, it's a film about three gentlemen traveling to Mexico.
Speaker 1:Hey, two birds one stone. You get to laugh, enjoy some good, good comedy and maybe learn a thing or two.
Speaker 2:Ryan harris, thank you for your knowledge and your wisdom on the three stooges and thank you for uh, I didn't think I'd know quite as much about it, did you?
Speaker 1:oh, I figured you would. I know that we could probably go another hour, but you know what you're doing, my friend, and thank you for being on my podcast today.
Speaker 2:all right, always glad to be with you, pat, anytime I can help.
Speaker 1:Looking forward to Sicily as well, coming up in the fall. There he is. We'll talk to you soon, ryan. Take care, pat. All right, you too, brother, all right. Thank you, brother, all right. Thank you for tuning in and listening Pat's Peeps 259. See you on the radio.
