People! ..from your first hire to team building, culture & dealing with difficult situations

Neil J Lloyd speaks with HR expert and business director Matt Thomas of THS HR about growing your people and team as you grow your business.

We cover outsourcing your HR, hiring your first employee, building a team and creating a healthy and high performing workplace culture as well as dealing with difficult people situations.

You can find out more about THS HR at https://www.thshr.co.uk

The podcast is produced by Zokit Business Hubs - the premier network for owners and leaders of small but mighty businesses. Create a free profile or join our full membership to grow your business faster and go further at zokit.co.uk

This Podcast is a Production of:

Zokit Business Hubs - the leading network and resource for owners, directors and entrepreneurs. https://zokit.co.uk/

Lead Producers: Neil J Lloyd

Transcript

Neil 0:27

Let us help you get there faster and enjoy the adventure along the way. Oh, welcome to the Business Wisdom Show podcast. I'm Neil Lloyd, your host, and today you're in for a treat because I am with Matthew Thomas from THS HR, and we're going to be talking about all things people, culture, some little tips about how to manage those kinds of things like conflict in your business. And I want to hear a little bit about Matthew. So family business has been established for you tell me, 30 years.

Matt 1:00

Oh well, we're actually well we're actually on our 26th year.

Neil 1:03

26, almost 30 years. And so Matt's got some fantastic uh insights to running a business, and we're going to share all that good stuff with you today. Um and just I'll just see what comes up in conversation because we love talking about people and not talking about people in that sort of like gossipy way. Well, well, maybe, but talking about just the people aspect of running a business because that is a big part of it. You know, it's people that make a business successful. You can't get away from that at the moment. Things may change with AI down the line, you don't know for sure. But I think wherever happens, people will always be at the heart of uh running a small business. So welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me.

Matt 1:46

You have to remind me that we're recording because I will just sit there and listen to you. No one will uh why is he silent?

Neil 1:55

I thought you were saying something like you're gonna start swearing or something.

Matt 1:58

Well, that could be the case as well.

Neil 2:00

Okay, we'll be careful. I'll give you an I'll give you nods. But um, really pleased uh to have you uh on our first episode of 2026. Can you believe we're already in February? Wow, yeah, I know.

Matt 2:12

It's it's it's exciting to be on the first episode. I feel honoured.

Speaker 2:16

Oh, absolutely, of course.

Matt 2:18

I'm an avid listener.

Neil 2:20

Well I hope you listen to this episode. Tell us about THS H T H T H I can't remember words in that. Tell us about THS HR. Um, you know uh what what's it all about? What sort of services do you do? And you know what what drives you as a business, I suppose?

Matt 2:38

It's a bit of a mouthful THS HR, isn't it?

Neil 2:40

It is. I mean I've been practicing all day because I know there's like double H's in there, but I just uh yeah.

Matt 2:45

There is a there's a bit of background to that. So um my parents started the company in 2000, hence we are in my office today. Um the sort of early naughty chic, I like to call it, of the office with the the kind of

Neil 3:01

I can concur.

Matt 3:02

Yes, the light oak furniture um or MDF. This should take you back a little bit, you know.

Neil 3:09

I used to have my whole when I was a student, um, I had all my digs in light oak, which I thought was the was brilliant. Yeah. And um looking back now, yeah, it looks kind of weird, but yeah, it was the thing, wasn't it? Yeah, oh we need an update.

Matt 3:23

Uh but we're like uh we're quite nomadic in our business, so we're we're here maybe once or twice a week. Um so it's it it's sometimes hard to get the time to think, right, we need new desks or we need new furniture because is that because you're with your client clients? Yeah, we're quite we're quite uh we're very nationwide at the minute, so we're across the UK, so there's a lot of driving involved, which means that we can't spending time in the office is a luxury. So it feels very luxurious today, only a 40-minute drive from home, which is lovely.

Neil 3:54

Well, talking about luxury though, um I know that you've got quite a few sort of luxury-end sort of clients as well, haven't you? Which must be a lovely place to drive to and have your meetings with.

Matt 4:06

It is. Uh we have a I have a client currently um at a wedding that run wedding venues called Dearborn. Um so they run some sort of luxury high-end wedding venues in the Cotswolds, Chippenham, um, East Sussex. Now a long drive, but when you get the re. Do you know what? I'm I go there for coffee meal. Coffee's fantastic. But it is beautiful, it's very beautiful.

Neil 4:30

It is beautiful, and also I think the and the Cotswold s has become so popular with international uh travellers, uh people setting up um their home in the UK. I mean, it's it's it's become a real hot spot, hasn't it? Apparently, because it's so quintessentially British. Yeah, and it feels like that. I mean, the the wedding venue is in Stow on the World, so it it is that quintessentially British kind of Clarkson farm area as well. You know, they have Hawkstone Brewery just down the road, they have uh the town centre just a five-minute drive or ten-minute walk. So yeah, it's it's a nice place to work, and it it it it makes that distance in terms of travelling a lot a lot easier when you get to somewhere that is nice rather than going to some sort of terrible kind of like out of town sort of you know, kind of what do you call it? Like those kind of out of town sort of like office blocks in the office.

Matt 5:25

Well, that's uh that's the other end of our jobs. So obviously, I mean THS grew up with uh my parents being from manufacturing backgrounds. So um my um Gill who still works in the business, um her background was in JIT manufacturing. So um, and and my my father started uh one of his first jobs was in um Trico and Ponty Pool that um believe it or not designed windscreen wipers. Oh so he was the head, he was the HR director there.

Neil 5:55

That's interesting because manufacturing has become you know is was a big thing, you know, many years ago, and now it's it's become very niche in the UK, isn't it?

Matt 6:03

Yeah, it has, and and and I suppose um that is the other side of our business is those manufacturing um plants we do travel to, which are a little less exotic.

Neil 6:13

Yes, you've got the two ends, you've got but then sometimes that's their contrast. I always think contrast is a good thing, isn't it?

Matt 6:18

Yeah, yeah. Oh, it is definitely. It's uh we're we're very lucky, we we have a very wide demographic of of of um of customers. So, you know, today you're here in my office. My office is attached to Newport Transport, we're one of our big clients, and then we also have um uh clients in the manufacturing industries, as I said, wedding venues, then all the way to the third sector and to public sector. So we have a real vast amount of of industry within within our customer base, which is is uh bring their own challenges. So um when you posed some questions to me today of how to deal with certain things, I was I almost said to you, Well, what industry are we talking about here, Neil?

Neil 7:00

I suppose there's some things that kind of like about what industry you're in, the same some themes will come up, and there's some things that are very, very specific maybe to the the type of um cultures in that yeah industry. Um tell me a little bit, so in terms of the services you offer, because it's it's outsourced HR services, isn't it? So there's a whole range of things, isn't there? I mean, it's quite a big topic. I always I'm always amazed how much it kind of covers. But what what would you say is in a nutshell, it's kind of the kind of things that you offer.

Matt 7:30

Yeah, and that's where the business was created is is is sort of building around that big topic. So when it started in 2000, um there was a real gap in the market for um for delivering that wide range to SMEs throughout the UK.

Neil 7:44

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 7:45

Um most most small medium enterprises can't really justify a full-time HR professional, yeah. And it's also quantifying what that means. So are they looking for an employee relations expert? Are they looking for a little developer manager? Um we we offer we offer the full range. Um so it's about um offering those HR expertise in all of those elements so the business can sort of not be distracted on their core focus and actually actually grow.

Neil 8:16

That's interesting, isn't it? About about distraction, because say you've got to really focus on the on the human element. But as if you're running the business, you want to grow it as well, and you've got to look at the strategy of what markets you're looking to uh to exploit or uh opportunities, then you know you need to bring in people with you, but as a business owner, it's quite difficult to do it all. Yeah, uh yeah, and to have to have an outsourced HR service that can take care of the thing, those sorts of things, and make sure the things that need to be in place are in place. Yeah. Um, and to advise it just frees up that business owner and the board, doesn't it, to think, right? Actually, uh, you know, this is where we're going. I can I can uh speak to Matt about how to help bring the people and any issues that are arising along the way and that's being dealt with, and we're compliant with all the various things we need to be compliant with because there's lots we'll go on to that a bit later.

Matt 9:10

Yeah, and and these are these are so we offer we're the one-stop shop really for the full range of HR, and um, you know, with my parents' involvement with me, we offer different skill set in that respect. So my parents uh uh really have that big business blue chip experience as well, which they can bring, uh they can transfer into SMEs, um, and and bring those ideas that they've sort of created and learned through being in that environment. And then there's myself, really, who's um learned my trade through dealing with predominantly small medium enterprises. So um I mean I run one, so it's it's really getting to the grips on how they work, what the people in those um industries, all that those areas are like. And and the one theme throughout all the or every single customer is people, you know, people are generally the same, you know, they they want there's a few things that they that people require, and one of those things is security, you know, a safe working environment and and a happy place to work, um, and and also ensuring that work um fits in with maybe their lifestyle. So I know we're gonna touch on this a bit later, but whether they're parents or caregivers and things like that, but they're there are there are multitude, people are complicated, but yeah, at the end of the day, we're all human beings, so that that is the crux of it, really.

Neil 10:37

Beautifully complex, absolutely. You mentioned about you know some of some of your sort of market, I guess, is that SME. So it's like no right up from the smaller businesses to the sort of like medium to larger businesses. Yeah, so quite often if someone's starting up, but they're you know, they're they're a new business, for example, or maybe they've been going for a few years, they've been running it just with um themselves, maybe some outside outsource services, but they're ready to take on their first employee. And I think that's quite scary for a lot of businesses, isn't it? That first step.

Matt 11:08

It's huge, it's it's a massive thing, and um I think it should never be underestimated, and um you can never over prepare as a business for something like that. So um, you know, for for an SME, if I was if I was speaking to someone that said, you know, Matt, I want to hire someone, what is my what are my first steps? Um and I I look at it a bit like um buying a house, you know. There are there are a lot of steps, but they all need to be done in a specific order to get the right outcomes and to make sure that employee is happy and is working for you and working well for your business. So my first sort of bit of advice would be well, look at your skills gap within your business. What is what are the skills that you're you feel that the business is missing? So that could be um either you're a service provider like us and you need to bring in another HR expert, or you're the you're the expert that you need to bring in someone to maybe develop the business. So really looking at those skills. This is this is sort of um taking into account the fact that potentially they've already got those values in place, they already know what their business goals are for the next five or ten years. Um so once once they've determined what those skills are, well, actually, I'd probably be advising is employment the right way forward first? Uh-huh. So, you know, are they can those skills be utilized by bringing in outsourced businesses?

Neil 12:28

I guess it depends on their grand plan a bit, isn't it? Because if they think you're going to build the team, they need to build the team, and okay, this is getting them started. But if they think, well, actually, you know, we don't need to build the team to 20, 30 people, we just need these things covered, and like you say, it might be outsourced providers might be the way forward.

Matt 12:46

And and as a HR uh business, I'm not trying to like take the work away, but you've got to be, you know, I think that's our that is our sort of philosophy as well, is to make sure that we are honest with people and we are giving them the right advice. And if that means that they don't work with us because they've decided to outsource it, that that is the right way forward, you know.

Neil 13:05

It's good to have the authenticity. I think even when you have um outsource services mainly as the as your team, there's still may there may be differences in law compliance to that. Yeah, but there's there you still need to to have them as part of the team. Is the communication, yeah, the the the respect, the the kind of you know having things like a service level agreement or you know, performance measures, you know, there's there's a lot of that, and you know, and sometimes you do have to go down the route of you're with an outsource service, so you have to part companies because maybe they're underperforming. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I think there's still some elements that are there, but even though maybe it's not entirely written in law, uh, as if you were having an employee, for example.

Speaker 1 13:50

You're right, and I think providing so but providing they've done that work, they've decided actually an employee is the right way forward, so use the buying house analogy. They found they found the h they found the area. Yeah, okay, yeah. So now it's time to sort of look for that that perfect house. Now I I would say that your next step is um you've you know you've found you've found your gaps, you found what what sort of sort of employee you need, you found what skill set you need them to have. So you then need to prepare um a whole list of things and get the basics right before you you even decide to start recruiting recruiting for that employee. So you know, contracts, pay, working hours, expectations, policies and procedures, speaking to your accountants, you know, ensuring that you're aware of the cost of employment. So we tend to use a bit of a 30% rule. I know that's probably throughout the the sector, but whatever um whatever salary you're giving to that employee, expect of uh at least 30% on top of that for things like NI for pensions. And even um even potentially now, you know, um ensuring that you have that money aside should anything in the future um go wrong, so that could be uh an employment relations matter, that could be a redundancy situation, etc.

Neil 15:20

Or even sick leave, you know, if someone's sick leave, yeah. You still need to cover cover that person's work somehow. Um yeah, yeah.

Matt 15:29

Um and then you know, you you need to get that recruitment, so you've done all that, let's say that's done. Then you need to get that recruitment um part right, making sure that you're asking the right competency questions during that recruitment process, making sure that you're not as an SME, you're not just looking at skills, you're looking at uh their fit in terms of you know, do they fit your culture, do they fit the environment? Um so I there is a lot of work that goes into it, and I my my biggest um advice to SMEs is that don't wait until you've employed to speak to a HR expert or someone within our industry or or an accountant. You know, think about that maybe at the beginning of the year when you're setting out your plan for the year, right? I'm gonna employ you in six months' time, so what do I need to put in place?

Neil 16:19

yeah.

Matt 16:20

Because it's almost a bit too late by the time you've employed that that person.

Neil 16:24

And yeah, and also say you can start off on the right foot, and you might say that you you might want to change things, and a number of people business I know they're stressed business owners, they think I just need someone, I need someone to help me. Yeah, and because they haven't thought it through, they just it's like that kind of any port in a storm kind of thing. They just go with the first person that expresses an interest almost because they're like, I'm I'm snowed under.

Matt 16:47

Yeah.

Neil 16:47

And then you know, three months, six months down the line, perhaps there isn't a good fit, and then the cracks begin to show. So I think you're you're right. And of course, you know, an HR um outsourced service can advise with the recruitment and perhaps even recommend recruitment, or maybe get involved in recruitment as well. Yeah. Because that's a whole minefield, isn't it? That's that's the process.

Matt 17:09

And that's our one-stop shop for HR. So getting involved in that, ensuring that they recruit the right people. And all too often, and and all all too often I think people um go with it, go to their safe space, so they might recruit. I'm gonna say this is a family run business, but you might recruit friends or family, and maybe because you feel that they're a safe bet, or you feel that but they might not necessarily have those skills, so it's about actually going out to the wider market. Who is out there that can actually give me what I need?

Neil 17:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then sometimes there's things that you don't fully you don't really know about, and then someone comes in and interviewee, and then suddenly they bring something to the table. You think, well, actually, gosh, I hadn't thought of that. This is a person that can add value and not just yeah, you know, and

Matt 17:57

and it again is a different, and then I that's that's what I would recommend for a a business sort of hiring and a fresh a fresh employee from start. And it's a different process again for businesses that maybe have a few employees, you know. Yeah, we'd be looking at then um potentially what have you got in your team currently, you know, what what have what is your succession plan and people development look like? So um it it's not a one size fits all in terms of recruitment, different team dynamics and all sorts of things. Yeah, different different customers or different employees need different things, really.

Neil 18:30

Well, and and and there's been quite a few changes, HR changes in the law and very recently, hasn't there? And I've seen lots of things flying around on social media, and so um can you give us a quick summary on on what those are and what you know what businesses should be aware of with these recent changes or U-turns and things?

Matt 18:52

Yeah, so um I think the the most prevalent ones are the ones coming in April and the ones that are probably important for now. So um that would be changes around family rights, so day one paternity rights, um family leave, um and also sickness absence changes, so um sick pay becoming a day one right rather than three-day . So those are the big things that are really coming in, and then um growing and sort of focusing on on other other things that have already come in place, but maybe um SMEs have been a little bit slower to adapt. So I would say things around um well-being, uh equality, uh equality and diversity, and potentially uh sexual harassment in the workplace are really important areas which as an if I was an SME I would be refocusing on getting right um at the moment because it um I I'm gonna this must sound a bit cynical, but if it's if it's headline news, then it's important to get it right. Yes, yeah, I agree. Because um that is the thing that politicians are focusing on, governments are focusing on, and if you don't have that right, then it's uh it's um it can become difficult if you run into problems for the downline.

Neil 20:10

It's a real challenge, isn't it, for smaller businesses because they usually haven't got the bigger budgets like the you know, to do things like the training, the awareness, the supporting. Um there are ways around it that you can look at things like you know, blending online training, working with the HR partner like yourselves, yeah, um, to make sure they're supporting their staff. And I think there's this this speaks kind of you know, because we've got on one side the compliance with the laws, the things that we have to do and uh are important. But I think HR is is more than that as well, isn't it? Because it's about as a business, we want to create uh a fantastic workplace that people want to be part of and they want to give their best selves to and you know and be fulfilled in their role and and enjoy coming into to work. Yeah. Um and often if you get most of that, if you get that right, you're pretty much the rest of it will kind of fall in place as long as you're making sure you've you know you've dotted all the uh the the I's and crossed all the T's. Um so yeah, I I mean how can businesses you know create that kind of culture, sort of a high performing culture, but like a you know, a workplace that people want to be part of and um you know want to uh have a job there, want to stay there, you know, and are proud to be there.

Matt 21:27

Well you've hit on one thing which I think is is really important, especially around SMEs is budget and expense. Now, in my view, you don't you don't need flashy perks, you don't need big budgets to make uh a good workplace environment. Sometimes it's about doing the simple things right. So ensuring that you you know you you you have clear communication and transparency with your staff. Um there's a fairness there, there's a consistency. Um and also trust uh trust as well. So ensuring that you know you you maintain that trust between yourselves and your employees. Um and then appreciation sometimes just a thank you goes a hell of a long way.

Neil 22:14

Yeah, I'd say thank you. And they say that you know, uh giving people, you know, like a treat sometimes if someone's done a really good job and you you thank them. And I always think just being a bit flexible with them as well, that goes a long way. So if they you know, if you need to finish early a little bit one day, and you know, as long as they're not taking it taking the mick all the time, you know, I think you can be quite um it's just remembering that people are human, aren't they? And lives are complicated.

Matt 22:43

And have I have lives outside of work, you know, it's it's it's your passion, it's your baby. It might not necessarily be you member of staff's baby, it's sometimes it's it's the money that they need to provide. So I think I think having that in the back of your mind is is always really important. And uh business leaders do have this massive influence on culture. So being approachable, there is no reason if you're in a small team that you shouldn't be approachable and and and consistent and actually being human. Yeah I would say goes a long way to your point where having that compassion and that empathy goes a long way with employees.

Neil 23:20

I can say if people if people feel like their work and fit in with their life and they're you know they're being treated like a whole person, I think it just makes a massive difference, doesn't it? And that and that person's more likely to stay um and you know be involved in the growth and be on board with those things. And of course, you know, train uh hiring new staff and it's an expensive business, isn't it? So if you kind of someone's good and you want to keep them and you uh make it work for them, especially for your business in lots of ways, but even on a cost level, it's usually a lot cheaper than having to rehire someone. I can't remember the cost now, but years ago used to say uh you know it was at least sort of three to five thousand pounds to to recruit someone. I think it's more than that now, isn't that? And that's just the obvious cost. There's a lot of hidden costs in rehiring us, and they lost productivity, uh retraining. Um so yeah.

Matt 24:13

I mean, if you if you hire it through a recruiter, you know, you're looking at 15% . Where you know it was it was always far more competitive, where those so that that that expense is really real then, and it isn't but and and so that that's that's why you know, as you said, ensuring that you have that those things in place, you have a good workplace is so important to you get that right.

Neil 24:39

I yeah, I really like what you said about just getting the basics right and treating people as humans. I think that's the yeah, rather than having like you say, these was fancy kind of perks like you know, you can't it's a toxic workplace, but you get a free chocolate bar or something, you know, thinking, well, I'd rather not be toxic workplace than not have a free chocolate bar.

Matt 24:58

I I always use I always use a really dreadful football analogy, so apologies for the non-football fans listening, but uh you you sometimes you've got to play the 442 and the the the Sam Aladice before you can do the Pet Guardiola Tiki-Tacker within your business. So actually have having the simple things in place and the structure in place and being able to sort of defend will will allow you to then go on the attack and progress your business. It's such a terrible analogy, but my my idiotic brain goes straight to football every time I think about things.

Neil 25:30

As a rugby fan, more than a football, I don't fully understand any of the things you just said, but I think I got the idea of it, and for you as football, you know, maybe for someone out here listening to this podcast, if there's there's something else who can you can create your own analogies .

Matt 25:44

Well, I'll give you a rugby, so I'll give the Gatland era, you know, Wales were hard hard team, always a hard team to beat, you know, really good defence, and then that's where the attacking flair came from was that really hard defensive structure, which allowed you know your George Norths and uh your wingers then to provide that sort of bit of flair and your Dan Biggars. So uh it works in rugby as well, don't worry.

Neil 26:05

I like that one.

Matt 26:06

I'll go darts, I'll go cricket, whatever you want. i

Neil 26:10

But yeah, so it's great to have that culture, but you know, there's some things you know, with the best, you can do all the right things, um, or even some wrong things, and sometimes issues arise, don't they? In in business, it's one of those things that's almost inevitable. You know, sometimes it can be it's a conflict, it can be a difficult employee, yeah, or just a tricky thorny people situation that develops. Um, have you got any top tips of how as a business owner we can navigate and manage that?

Matt 26:47

It's really easy, actually, it's really simple, and uh it will make you everyone's lives so much easier if they stop avoiding problems. Yeah. It's in our nature to avoid conflict, and we can go into fight or flight, uh whatever, whatever you want, but I think um you problems won't resolve themselves, and avoiding will only create more toxic work environments. You know, if you're avoiding a performance issue, um it's only gonna be at the detriment of your other staff or your other team or yourself. If you're a two-man team and you're avoiding a performance issue, you're the one that's taking that burden, isn't it? Um also you know uh inconsistency. So, you know, treating um treating people the same um is not the same as treating people equally. That sounds really that sounds really weird.

Neil 27:48

No, I love you said that because I yeah, it really frustrates me when people think that treating people the same is the same as treating them equally. It's not.

Matt 27:56

so I don't mean uh bending the rules for some and not others is is an issue is inconsistency, but also sometimes you need to make those sort of decisions based on the people are in front of you, but but inconsistency can be a problem. Um I think you know it can it can damage morale um and a bit of actual structure and a bit of um being a boss or being a being a manager actually I I believe protects the culture and doesn't kill it and and draw and having those lines and and and having those processes in place.

Neil 28:40

Yeah, I think it gives people that kind of you know the something to kind of not just a comfort but also it's something they know that they they've got their you know someone's got their back and that there's a system or a process in place and I think that's quite secure and it creates a bit of a safer, safer space. And I think you know when when people if someone is if there's a conflict and the leader is avoiding it, you know, the other the other team members will be watching and they will be yeah, and they and they'll be thinking, oh what what if that happens to me or what you know so I think it is yeah it avoiding is not the thing to do.

Matt 29:19

No, no, no, I agree totally you know, like um with with so in terms of if if you begin avoiding, you're not actually getting to the core problem, and that core problem might not to be to do with the business or the work that that person is doing, it could be to do with uh a whole variety of things. We go back to this human point that people have personal lives, people have trouble, people have struggles, whether that's with mental health or with um other parts of their life.

Neil 29:46

So and just being different, aren't they? People are just different, they do their world views are different, yeah, in terms of the conflict that arises from that difference.

Matt 29:53

Absolutely, and um uh managers really need to get to the bottom of why why why that person isn't um doing what they need to be. Yeah, therefore you can't avoid, you've gotta actually deal with the issue head on.

Neil 30:09

Excellent. We talked about the whole thing that you know we've got our whole lives outside of business as well, we bring to it, and I know that you're a new-ish kind of father yourself, but you're obviously part of a um a family run business as well. So how how's all that? Because I mean there's there's there's quite a lot to manage and unpack there, isn't there? You're running a business, you're you're family involved, but obviously, you know, when you've got a young kid, there's a lot of other things going on as well, and you know, they don't go to plan, do they generally just do what they want to do and they're sick and they're ill and they're you know whatever it is. Yeah, so um how how's that been you know, with your involvement in the business and and balancing all that?

Matt 30:54

Yeah, there's a there's a there's a few things. I mean becoming a again, I I've got a I'm I'm I I'm always wary of what I say when it comes to parenthood because I'm always wary of mum's involvement in it and like uh and and you know the whole part of birth and maternity and that area which different thing I think I've become more uh I've become more sort of involved in actually as becoming a parent because when customers inevitably ask me what benefits do you think can enhance um in employees, what what can we do to make the workplace better? It usually revolves now around parenting because I'm you know you do bring your you do bring that personal element to it and you think, well, actually maternity statute maternity leave and pay is is pretty rubbish. So well um getting you know getting getting that better is is always a good place to start. But how it's how I've managed the business becoming a dad, I think um I'm more conscious of my time, yeah. So I always look at it that you know, Eva is now the most important thing in my life, yeah, and then it's the business. So I I where I can I will be there in the morning when she wakes up and get her dressed and get her ready for nursery, and then I'll be there to bath her and put her to bed, and and that's my sort of nice little role I've made for myself within that family dynamic. And then sometimes you know I've got to be realistic that I'm out before she wakes up and I'm back before she goes to bed. But then I'll try and do something on the weekend, maybe in order to make that time that with her. Like we pop we went to uh Techni quest on the weekend, just being her, and oh wow, uh she's just started walking, so we we walked everywhere, and I just absolutely knackered her out of the portfolio. But you know, it was it's lovely to have that time with her, and like I've really like thrown myself into being a dad. Oh nice, and I'm pretty obsessed with it, to be honest. Uh I'm obsessed with being a dad, so uh I try not to make it my whole personality, but it's slowly becoming it.

Neil 32:59

It's all , I mean it's such a beautiful thing, isn't it? And I think um in some ways it probably kind of even bolsters motivation with business, doesn't it? People absolutely think I want you know, I want to provide, uh um, I want to um have that balance, I want to think carefully about how I spend my time, and then you make sometimes you whether it's a children or no, you don't have children, whatever you have in your life, like besides a business, you know, you kind of almost then prioritize don't you prioritize everything, right? Okay, what's the important thing to do? Let's let's not do the stuff that doesn't make a difference because actually our time on this earth is short. Um you know, so it's kind of focusing on the things that really matter, and in business that can be the things that move your business forward and um you know, and making sure we don't end up staying in the office and just scrolling through things and you know, adjusting spreadsheets forever and a day. Yeah. Um and I think there's there's a there is a kind of um I don't know, I I suppose there's a temptation when you run a business, isn't that you've put everything into the .

Matt 34:08

Yeah, no, and and um you're right, there is that like running a business is is it provides its own challenges with your personal sort of personal life as well. But the whole reason a lot of people run businesses is to make sure they have that work-life balance essentially, where they can actually be present, whether that's they have children or uh they want to go on lots of holidays. I'm not calling anything necessary. Yeah, sorry, that's my issue. Um but uh yeah, so it's like it the whole point. So why would I, you know, if I want to be stuck in the office eight till five pm, I I'd go work in and yeah, I'd go and become a people director somewhere out in a in a business, you know. I I don't want that, I want that flexibility.

Neil 34:55

This is the beauty of running a business, isn't it? Yeah, it's not an easy thing to do, but it it you know the it gives you a massive amount of flexibility. Um and part of that, the flip side of that is it's down to you to make sure that you deliver that flexibility for yourself because I say you know, you can end up working all the hours all the time, and sometimes you might need to do that for short periods, especially when you're starting something or starting a new project or a new business. But ultimately, you know, the beauty of running a business is that you get to design it alongside your life, you know, rather than kind of trying to have the two things competing.

Matt 35:36

And and being a family business, we have that extra dynamic where obviously, my parents that are in the business are grandparents now. So again, they want that extra time and space away from the business to spend time with their granddaughter now. That's always what happens then is that their dad doesn't spend time with his daughter because dad's working because uh they want to uh brand new time on grandpa. They want grandpa and nan time.

Neil 36:02

So I love it. So what's next then for THS HR?

Matt 36:07

Um I think this was a really interesting question because we're at we're we're we're really at a a good place now, which is great, which is uh there's there's always in business small businesses there's good problems to have, and our problem is we are busy all the time. So um I think continuing that sustainable growth, which we we've been doing over the last two years, um, while maintaining the quality for our customers. So um that probably means um growing the team carefully over the next couple of years and ensuring we uh follow what I was talking about earlier on and we recruit well and we recruit the right people and um that will probably be um you know practical support in order to support our clients, which gives me the time to do a bit more of this essentially, and a bit more business development and grow it even further. But there's no point rushing the growth, it's gotta happen. You know, we have we have a good uh group of retainers at the minute, but it it takes one to two to decide that they want their own in-house HR or they want to take a different direction, and we're back to square one a little bit, so we've got to ensure that that that is real. Uh we're sure about what we do when we do it. So that's that's the future for this year. You know, we've um we've talked a long time about rebrand as well. Um our our logo, our sort of look is still uh early mid-noughties. I mean I I was I was four years old when the business started. So um I I see it in a different I see the branding as as a little bit outdated, if I'm honest. But uh, you know, I think I think that that will be also on our list of things to do for this year to get that done. We didn't we didn't really celebrate our 25 years as much as we should have. So I think if we can get that branding done, I see us in the next five years doing a really big 30th birthday. Wow. I've just had mine, so uh we you know it'll be good to celebrate someone else's 30th

Neil 38:26

Well we want to get the invitations out to that, don't we? For sure. Big party somewhere.

Matt 38:29

Well, yeah, I mean maybe we'll be here, maybe we'll be somewhere else, hopefully in a bit of a bigger space, you know, get all our Zokit friends around and have a have a good old bash.

Neil 38:39

Yeah, excellent. Yeah, that's a good place to be. So, how can people get in touch with you then? If people are interested in thinking about need to speak to Matt about my HR, um how how to get in touch with you?

Matt 38:50

Yeah, contact me directly. Um we have a website, so thshr.co.uk. Yeah. Um if you pick up the phone, the office number goes directly to me. So um really I always encourage to have an initial conversation. Um I'm not I'm not a hard seller, I just want to understand you know what your needs are, how how we might be able to help, but if we're the right person to help, as I said to you earlier, you know, sometimes people don't need to recruit, they need an outsourced marketer or an outsourced uh uh VA or whatever. So I'll it's to understand that we uh always if it's an employer with already a number of employees, uh the first thing I need to do is you need to let me into your business to do that audit and understand what your gaps are so I can sort of properly advise. So that's usually the the free of charge part of our service where you know there's no obligation. I I I go in, I do what I need to, and then I tell you what what's wrong and then how you can fix it, and you either fix it with us, you fix it with someone else, or you fix it on your own. Uh I I really don't that really doesn't concern me, it's just getting that right. Um, but yeah, so pick and phone LinkedIn. Um I have a mobile, my mobile number should be plastered all over uh the website on my LinkedIn, so just give me a call.

Neil 40:13

We'll put all the the links and details in the show notes as well. Well, thank you, Matt, for joining us today on the Business Wisdom show. It's been a really good uh conversation. And hey, please do reach out to Matt. Have a look at the website because there's lots of different tips and ideas on there as well. And we'll hopefully see you again on a future episode if you'd like to come back.

Matt 40:33

Oh please, yeah. Yeah, I'd love. I've I've very much enjoyed this. It's my first rodeo, so to speak. So uh wow. I feel like well, I'll wait until next week when I I come back and I sound like Darth Vader. But you know, it you anyway, I'll definitely be back, and um, I'd like to make it a bit more of a thing. So yeah. Fantastic. Thank you for having me, Neil.

Neil 40:53

You're very welcome. Well, that's a wrap. Thanks everyone for tuning in. Please hit subscribe to get notified for the next episode. And please leave us a review. I'd love to hear from you. You can check out our show notes for info and links from today's episode. One of the single biggest success factors for business is networking. Done well, it speeds up your growth. Having a supportive group of peers not only helps you avoid some of the pitfalls, but also opens up your perspectives and creates real opportunities. Leading a business can be a lonely place and it' s this isolation that often stops progress. It's why most businesses fail in their first five years. At Zokit, we have a network of hubs that create a support structure of growth-minded business leaders and we'd love to invite you to be part of this thriving community to skyrocket your business. Head over to zokit.co.uk where you can request a free guest pass to one of our online events, accessible from anywhere you can get on Zoom. Or book a ticket to meet in person at our mixers in Cardiff and Bristol. Hey, you may even want to launch a hub in your own area. Tune in next time, this is me, your host, Neil J. Lloyd, wishing you the best in business.