How to Co-Parent Without Conflict (Even If Your Ex Is Difficult): with Gabriella Pomare

Divorce doesn’t end parenting — it changes it.

In this episode of the Dad to Dads Podcast, family lawyer and author Gabriella Pomare shares powerful insights on collaborative co-parenting, high conflict divorce, healthy communication, and protecting your children after separation.

If you’re struggling with:

• Co-parenting with a difficult ex
• High conflict custody situations
• Parallel parenting vs collaborative parenting
• Communication breakdown after divorce
• Setting boundaries with your ex
• Blended family dynamics
• Helping kids cope with divorce

…this episode is for you.

Gabriella explains the 4 pillars of effective co-parent communication:

1. Listen
2. Pause
3. Reflect
4. Respond

She also shares:

• What most divorced parents get wrong
• How kids internalize conflict (even when you think they don’t)
• What to do when the other parent won’t cooperate
• How to model maturity for your children
• Why some adult children cut off their parents later in life
• How to navigate holidays and blended family stress

This conversation is practical, honest, and deeply important for any parent navigating separation or divorce.

Remember: It’s not about winning. It’s about your children.

🎙 Guest: Gabriella Pomare
 📘 Author of The Collaborative Co-Parent
🌎 Website: https://www.thecollaborativeco-parent.com

📱 Instagram: @thegabriellapomare

Subscribe for more conversations about fatherhood, divorce, parenting, and becoming the dad your kids need.

Transcript

Robert Poirier (00:00)
Gabriella Pamiri, welcome to the Dad to Dad's podcast.

Gabriella Pomare (00:05)
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited for this chat.

Robert Poirier (00:07)
I thank you so much for coming on.

right. So you're a family lawyer. You're the author of the collaborative co-parent. You're regularly on TV shows speaking about co-parenting. And most importantly, you're a mom. Again, welcome to the podcast.

Gabriella Pomare (00:24)
Thank you, you're

absolutely right. And I think I do it because I'm so passionate about this topic, as I'm sure you are, and about these issues. And I'm a mum, but I'm also a co-parent. So I really get it. I feel it and I've lived it.

Robert Poirier (00:38)
So let's jump in. What is collaborative co-parenting and what does it look like?

Gabriella Pomare (00:44)
think it's a very creative term that I came up with.

But it is something that I do believe in if it works. And collaborative co-parenting definitely doesn't mean that you're going to be best friends with your ex. It's very unlikely. It doesn't mean you're going to sit down for dinner or breakfast or have a coffee. But what it really means for me is making that active decision to want to collaborate with your ex, to say every decision we make, every conversation we engage in, we'll have our child at the forefront of our minds, right? Because at the end of the day, it is, it's all about your child or children.

So as hard as it can be when you're on that separation or divorce path and journey, you need to sort of separate the grief and the emotion and that healing from anything to do with what decisions do we make about our child moving forward. And I think when you can learn to do that, you are effectively, collaboratively co-parenting.

Robert Poirier (01:38)
No, that makes sense. Uh, and I think that probably answers this question, but the difference between collaborative co-parenting and say, uh, traditional, traditional custody arrangements for, and as well as parallel co-parenting, you hear that a lot too. What are the differences there?

Gabriella Pomare (01:53)
Yeah, yeah

you do. Look I think the reality is if you can do it amicably enough and if you can do it in what I like to call a business-like way. So if you think of yourselves as business partners right and your business really is your children, you're focusing on those issues, you're taking out that emotion, anything that's really high conflict. I mean you don't need to know what's going on in your ex's life.

But where maybe you can't do that and where you do need to lead these two very parallel lives. And it might be that you still have the long term goal in mind, you still obviously want to do what's best for your children, but you simply can't do that together. You're not the kind of exes or co-parents who can jump on the phone and make those decisions or really make any decisions together, then you probably are looking at more of a parallel parenting approach. ⁓ I think that's

just as effective if it's done well and you're respecting each other's boundaries and that's the way forward. And look, you see all different custody arrangements, as you said. I mean, some parents just can't do it. My time is my time. The rules in my house are what they are and you don't need to know that. And I see that often too. And I'm not gonna criticize that. At the end of the day, one needs to respect how one wants to parent their child, but where you can try and see past that anger.

that conflict, that resentment, even the hurt, you are doing what's best for your children. And that's one of the reasons I guess I go on TV and I travel and I speak about this is because I do genuinely believe that the more parents who sit back and realize and think about, I'm actually impacting my child's future. I'm impacting the way they're gonna enter into.

adult relationships and marriages and the way they parent their children. So I need to step up now I'm the adult, I'm the mature one and I've just got to do it better for them.

Robert Poirier (03:40)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So was there a moment sometime in either your law practice or your personal life when you're like, Hey, when you, when you realize like there has to be a better way to do this co-parenting, like what I'm trying to get is how did you, how did you get into this? How did you become such an expert? What was that moment? you are.

Gabriella Pomare (04:00)
Yeah, look, I'm no expert. I think it's more that I just,

it's my lived experience, right? And you're right. I've been practicing in family law for something like 12 years now.

I worked for a judge at our family court in the highest division. So I saw a lot. I saw a lot of conflict. I saw parents for years going through big trials and the hurt and the anguish. And I read so many, I think we call them family reports here. You might call them psychiatrist reports. I don't know, but those reports you get going through the system. And I saw the impact that was having on children, but it was when I separated. So I was 30 when I separated. My son was just a baby. I he's almost one.

And look, we had been together since high school, so we kind of only knew each other and probably didn't know enough about the adult world. So it was the right decision for us at that time. ⁓

I think it was going through that separation process, which isn't easy, I don't care. Anyone can say, we're still best friends. It's never easy. You're still going to go through hurt and a whole roller coaster of emotions, right? Because you imagine this future life with your family and all of a sudden that gets either taken away from you or it goes. So I think it was through that and look, even with all my experience and all the knowledge I had, it was hard.

into practice. I mean, I was still hurting and I found myself, you know, sending those really nasty text messages or engaging in conflict. But, you know, for what reason? You when I look back now, I say, was it to win? Was it to say, hey, I won that argument, you know, go me, I was the right one. So I was in the middle of, yeah, a bit of high conflict at one point. And I like to call it a gotcha moment. So it was Christmas time, I'll never forget it. We had an argue about something. And I remember my

my ex-husband, my son's dad ringing the doorbell and I was just refusing to allow him to take him and I look back now and I say, God, if I was one of my clients, I would have been so hard on them saying, what are you doing? You know, it's not about you. I think that was the moment when I said, wake up to yourself. Like you need to do so much better. You've got a one year old here. You're lucky. Just right now. He probably doesn't understand it, but you know, kids see the body language.

Robert Poirier (05:52)
Yeah.

Gabriella Pomare (06:07)
They know when parents are tense, they hear the heightened tone ⁓ in your voice when you're angry. And that's when I said, I've got to start doing better. So I started putting things into practice like slowing down. I'm sure we'll talk about it, but all the things you do in terms of better communication, healthier communication, and focusing just on the decisions and lifestyle choices and what was important for him.

Robert Poirier (06:32)
Yeah. And a couple of things. One, when you said that about, ⁓ children picking up on it, they can, they just see it in your body. mean, just, it's not even, yeah, they can hear it in your voice, but it's not even that. And even at a very young age, they, they so much pick up on your body posture, your, you think you're putting on a happy face or whatever. You're not, they can see through it. They.

Gabriella Pomare (06:53)
Yeah, they see the eye rolls, you know, you're in the car,

you get a text message, they probably don't understand what series repeating back, but they'll see the way you react to that. And that's with everything. And it was something I was speaking about yesterday, I was on TV from a very young age, wouldn't matter what it is within your house, they're picking up on everything, whatever you're modeling, that behavior that you're exhibiting within the home, they pick up on that. And that's what causes these issues into adulthood. And I think too many parents don't realize that. ⁓

particularly the parents that end up in high conflict situations. And it might just be one parent gets it and one parent is trying to do everything they can to better that co-parenting relationship, to model good adult behavior and mature conversation for their children. But then you've still got one parent who just won't do it. They're putting up those barriers. They're still engaging in conflict and they don't see the harm they're doing. So it's that balance of... ⁓

How do I fix that? I mean, if I'm in that situation and I'm trying really hard to co-parent, but one person won't engage and won't collaborate, what do I do? And that makes it really hard. And children, as you say, pick up on that. And then they almost become involved in the conflict and they're in the middle of navigating, do I protect one parent's feelings? You know, do I stop talking about what I'm doing at the other parent's house? Cause I don't want to upset my other parent. And there are so many things that come from that.

Robert Poirier (08:06)
Yes.

Gabriella Pomare (08:16)
⁓ and maybe the things we'll explore, but that's what really breaks my heart. And that's why I say, if I can just change one little family or one parent's mind about the way we do things, I'm at least doing something with a bit of impact.

Robert Poirier (08:28)
And I want to get into the high conflict or where it's just one kind of working, trying and the other one not. want to get into that in a minute, but in your experience, what are most co-parents getting wrong? Even when they think, oh, we've got this, we're doing a great job. What are they getting wrong? Or where could they probably do better?

Gabriella Pomare (08:53)
Yeah, I think it always has to come down to communication because that really is the biggest part of the co-parenting relationship. At the end of the day, all you're really doing is communicating. You're not necessarily hanging out, but you're

gonna have to text, right? You're gonna have to email or sometimes pick up the phone and whichever one it is and there's no right or wrong. Just because you can only email and you can't text or pick up a phone doesn't make you a bad con parent. But it's the manner in which you communicate that I think really shifts the tone and shifts the way people get it right or wrong. So what I often talk about these four pillars of communication and I think I've got a chapter about them in my book, I speak a lot about them.

but essentially it's about listening. So really listening to what the other parent is saying. And when we often say, yeah, I've picked up the phone, I'm listening to what you're talking about, but you're not hearing, you're ignoring, you're allowing that person to talk, but you're not really digesting. Half the time, right, you're actually coming up with, quick, what am I going to go back with? So I sound better or I win. So it's really listening. And then it's pausing. And the pause and the power of that pause is so important.

Robert Poirier (09:42)
Right. Yeah.

or you're thinking about your response to them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabriella Pomare (10:01)
I think that is the be-all end-all in co-parenting relationships. And what that really means is not shooting back, as you say, not hurrying up to respond because that will probably end in something like conflict and argument. So go away and think about it. Not every piece of communication or decision requires a response straight away. Could be a couple of seconds, a couple of minutes, honestly, sometimes a couple of days if it's something really big, right?

Robert Poirier (10:25)
So that's okay. If

it goes a couple of days before you respond, as long as it's not anything super important. Yeah.

Gabriella Pomare (10:29)
If it's not an emergency or urgent, yeah,

it's probably better, right? Because you're doing the homework, you're going away, you're thinking about it, you're then reflecting, which is my next pillar, and you're going through, okay, what's the best outcome here? Not for me, because it's not about me as the parent, it's realistically about my child. So we all make the mistake of saying, you know, if it's about a Christmas or a holiday, and I make the same mistake, I shoot at, you know, that would upset me. Well, that's not what I want. It doesn't suit me. But that's where you go away and say,

Forget me, forget my emotion. I've got to work through it. I'm the adult. I'll do what's better for my kid, my child. And then you respond. Obviously the fourth pillar.

Robert Poirier (11:06)
makes sense.

That makes sense. Alright, so we have listening, have pausing the four. So three, four is what

Gabriella Pomare (11:14)
reflect and then respond.

Robert Poirier (11:17)
reflect and then respond.

Gabriella Pomare (11:19)
Yeah. And I do think that when you start implementing them and they sound mechanical, they sound like, it's just four steps. What would she know? But if you're actively doing it, and again, it might be something really small. Yeah. Even if the smallest decision, you tend to get a better result because you're actually thinking about the future and the best possible outcome. And you might always get it right. There's no perfect co-parent and there's definitely no perfect parent.

Robert Poirier (11:31)
It makes so much sense.

Gabriella Pomare (11:48)
But when you start implementing these things, I think you're on the right trajectory to being a better cod parent.

Robert Poirier (11:53)
So you touched on it, ⁓ but is it always possible to have collaborative co-parenting? I would say no, but you're the expert again. mean, meaning are there situations where it's just unrealistic outside of something being dangerous, harmful that is it sometimes just unrealistic to have that?

Gabriella Pomare (12:05)
No.

Yeah,

Yeah, look, obviously, family violence, those sort of situations, it's off the table. But we get that. But look, when you don't have that, and when we're really talking about high conflict, I think it's always possible, but whether or not it can always happen is unlikely, right? Because two people need to make that active decision.

Robert Poirier (12:20)
Yeah, that's, yeah.

Gabriella Pomare (12:35)
And so many people come to me either through this platform or through my work as a lawyer and they say, we just can't do it. We cannot communicate. And I often say, that's not right. You can't communicate without conflict or you can't communicate without emotion. And once you take those elements out, you can communicate. So I know what a lot of people do is they might have a regular rule in place. So just an email once a week email where there are the same topics every week. might be school, education, health, just wellbeing generally.

and it becomes a bit of a pattern. know, this week, Johnny did whatever at school, a swimming carnival. He was a bit upset this week. He told me he had a nervous tummy, whatever it might be. And you give each other those regular updates. So at least you're still engaging in communication. You're being respectful of the fact that the other person probably wants to know a bit about what went on in your time with the child, but you're not close enough to say, I'm just going to pick up the phone or send text to my ex today and say, hey, I just did school drop off and whatever happened. So there are still things

you can do. ⁓ There are really good co-parenting apps. Some you might know about them. Our Family Wizard, I think is a good one. I like that these days as well with AI, whenever it has their own opinion, but I like the fact that in some high conflict dynamics, it can measure the tone of communications. And look, I know it's a little bit inauthentic, but if that makes two parents feel more comfortable, I think that's good. Anything that gets them communicating. And then in other situations where

It's really because it really is. mean, the only reason you can't do it is because of conflict. And I know that word keeps coming up, but that has to be the only reason. Because even if you're hurt, you know, someone's had an affair, there's been betrayal. Someone's really done something bad to you. You still can make the decision to put that, you know, what's the word, I can never say it, put it to one side of your brain. Right. You can still put that aside and say, I'll ignore that.

Robert Poirier (14:27)
Yeah, compartmentalize

Gabriella Pomare (14:31)
That's the word. could just never

say it. Put it to one side. ⁓ You do your therapy. You speak to your friends, your family members. is no one's trying to take that away from you. But you can say that's my thing to work through. They're my emotions to grieve and heal from and deal with. But I'm still going to actively almost fake it, you know, for the sake of my child. And there's nothing nicer for children, right? I know with

with my son. So I co-parent one and then I have a one year old from a new relationship. And for my son, there is nothing nicer for him than seeing us together. And I don't love doing that. I mean, I call myself a collaborative co-parent because we chat, we give each other updates, we're pretty good at making decisions, but we still argue. And we don't, you know, we don't choose to do birthdays together, Christmases, that's not us. We're not those sorts of...

close co-parents. But for things like school, so this week we had a school event and we all went together and it was incredibly uncomfortable, particularly when you partners come along too. But the joy on my son's face, I couldn't forget that. Yeah.

Robert Poirier (15:31)
Which is what matters. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what matters. So what about when, well, I guess I want to ask you this. Do you ever have anybody when you're just like, you know what you tried? Your ex is so high conflict. Just don't do anything. Just keep living your life. Or what do you do when the other partner is so high conflict and

Cause I know there's gotta be cases out there where it doesn't matter what you do. You can be giving them the weekly updates and everything in there is probably going to be just. You're going to be crucified for the, you know, the decisions you made yet it's cold, but okay. You didn't put as big of a jacket on them as you should have, or it's too much of a jacket. You know, what, what do you suggest in those cases?

Gabriella Pomare (16:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, a lot of those dynamics are almost impossible to fix, right? And there's only so much work you can do. You can only suggest therapy so many times. You can only suggest emails and apps so many times. So what I often tell is mainly clients I work with, and there are lots of them that are in these situations, you can't necessarily co-parent together, but that doesn't mean you have to stop modeling good behavior for your children. So you're right.

you won't engage in communication. And I guess it's because there's no point because you know, as soon as you try and do that, you think you're doing the right thing, you're going to get back a nasty text. They're going to blame you for something. know, messages will be sent through your children that make you look like a terrible dad or mom, whatever it might be. So I think just take the high road. So, know, you still model that positive communication. Don't, you know, don't involve your children by saying, you know, mom's so horrible, mom's so nasty. But

be positive in the presence of your children. You're going to mum's, you're going to have a good time, whatever it might be. You need to not make it look like it's impacting or affecting you in front of your children. And that's purely to protect them from that guilt and from that internal conflict that they then feel. But look, the reality is you can't do it. Don't co-parent. You can only do so much.

Just don't involve your children in it. Don't allow them to see that and still send as hard as it is, the polite message, the polite email where you can, ⁓ but stay out of anything that will cause conflict or continue an argument that doesn't need to be had.

Robert Poirier (17:48)
Be the adult, suck it up and be the adult.

Gabriella Pomare (17:50)
Essentially,

you're the one modeling what a mature adult looks like and your kids will realize that in the future. The younger they are, it's hard. They don't get it but they see things. But as they go into, you know, teenage years and early adulthood, they'll remember. They'll say, you know, mum or dad, whoever it might be, was very difficult. But when we were living with...

The other parent, gosh, they were good. They never, you know, never involved us. They never made us feel bad for going to that difficult parent's house. They never made us feel bad for the horrible messages they were still getting or the stories that were being told about them. And I think that's what matters more because by doing that, you are protecting their adulthood. And I think that relationship will be preserved so much better into the future than with the parent that was the hard one or the difficult one for making other stories.

Robert Poirier (18:36)
Yeah, because I think so many times parents, when there is, ⁓ whether it's false, false, false accusations or whatever it may be. So many times parents want to plead their case to the kids or tell the kids, no, I'm not like that. No, I'm this and that. And I, you know, ⁓ who the person we were talking about earlier, before we started recording Bella from a kid, a kid with two homes, you know, she talks about that as well. I mean, just.

Gabriella Pomare (18:44)
Thank

Yeah.

Robert Poirier (19:06)
That's putting, that's putting them in the middle and it's making them pick sides and kids do eventually figure this out. They will. mean, it might not be the timeline the parents want. It might not be, you know, in five minutes. It might be in five years. It might be in 15 years, but they do and let them come about that organically instead of you trying to push that in their head. Because as she was saying one time, you know, that can even drive them further away as well.

Gabriella Pomare (19:21)
Exactly.

Yeah, I will.

Robert Poirier (19:34)
and they can become more

protective of the parent that is doing false accusations.

Gabriella Pomare (19:39)
Exactly right. And I think what too many parents forget is children are still half you and half the other parent. You hear it a lot. You know, if you dislike my dad or my mom so much, then you must dislike a part of me because I am part of them, right? So there must be some characteristic that I have that you dislike, that you hate so much. I think that's hard for a child to process. And they grow up thinking, what is so wrong with me because my parent is so bad.

And I think what we also forget is every little thing we do and say.

impacts our children again into adulthood. if you're constantly speaking negative and treating your child as the best friend where you're saying, know, mom won't let us go on this holiday so you're missing out or your dad hasn't paid child support this week so I can't buy whatever it might be. That's not healthy. You think you're winning by getting your child on your side. But imagine how they feel. They're sitting in their bedroom saying, how can I get dad to pay child support? This is now my problem. I've got to do it. Or, you know, my dad's so upset because

his mom's moved on with a new boyfriend and she's happy and they start feeling that guilt. They start taking that responsibility for fixing their parents' problems and that causes problems of their own. And look, I get how easy it can be to forget that as a parent because you're juggling so many things and you're healing from your own relationship breakdown, you're juggling your own emotions, but we need to sit back and think about these things.

Because otherwise we won't make those smart choices and those smart decisions moving forward.

Robert Poirier (21:12)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So if kids could, if kids could sit in, on the co-parenting conversations that you have probably every day, what do you, what do you think they would want their parents to know?

Gabriella Pomare (21:26)
I think that's really interesting. Look, the younger they are, they're always going to say, I want mom and dad living in the same house. That's the reality of a young child. The ones who get it though, they know that they can't have the family they once knew all living together and all going on holidays together. But what I see is them saying, I just want them to be able to communicate better. I don't want the yelling and screaming. And I think this impacted me most. It was last year and I acted for a dad in the matter and it was very high conflict, both parents, but neither parent

including my client, could see past that. And no matter how much therapy they had, no matter how much the courts and the experts were telling them, you need to stop. You need to stop making an argument out of every issue and winning a point and involving your children. They didn't get it. And we engaged in a child impact mediation, which is one here where kids don't come to the mediation, but a psychologist will speak with them about how they're feeling, how they're doing, and then bring those feelings and wishes back.

right to the mediation process and we had that. And there was a teenage boy, I think he was about 15 and he said, I can't do this anymore. He goes, I hate school. I don't want to hang out with friends. I am constantly miserable and depressed because I am so worried about my parents because they are always arguing. Every phone call is an argument. Every decision is an argument. Something like a school excursion or a camp they can't even agree on. You know, I'll forget my school shoes at one parent's house. That was my fault.

But again, that's an argument blaming one parent and he goes, I can't take it anymore. And this child was so depressed at such a young age that I thought, surely this is the wake up call where parents say, I can't allow this to continue because I am so negatively impacting my child. So from that, guess I can only say it's it's communicate better, shield us from the conflict because we don't need to be involved as children.

Robert Poirier (23:08)
Yeah.

Gabriella Pomare (23:18)
It's just, it's doing us so much more harm than good.

Robert Poirier (23:22)
Yeah. When you're saying that I'm thinking about the kids and then when they're trying, they're depressed and they're trying to escape my goodness. Then the avenues that they turn to that are so unhealthy and harmful to them. ⁓ what, what they get into it. It's just, it's horrible. seems like what you keep saying over and over and over again, it's communication, communication, communication, and even a little bit. Yeah. A little bit of maybe even, ⁓ you haven't really said it, but maybe even

Gabriella Pomare (23:34)
Yeah, yeah.

I'm a broken record.

Robert Poirier (23:52)
Kind of a little bit of boundary setting as well. Is that fairly?

Gabriella Pomare (23:56)
Boundaries are really important obviously. You need to put them in place and as you know a boundary is not what you can make the other person do but it's what you're putting in place and you know there are so many little ones like I might not reply to a text after eight o'clock that's my rule because I don't want to affect my night time, my relaxed time. You know at changeovers I'm not going to engage in conversation that's personal you know. Some parents can they can say what are you up to this weekend, how's whoever.

Our parents can't and they feel that, you know, as soon as you say, how's the weekend or what are your plans, you're invading my personal space. You're trying to stalk me and find out what I'm doing. So lots of different dynamics, but by putting in place those boundaries and better communication, I think that protects the co-parenting relationship. It helps you limit it to that really business-like partnership. And that's important. But from what we're saying about the kids too, and it's something I was talking about yesterday.

You see so many children in their adulthood detaching from their families and choosing to no longer have a relationship with their parents. And you see it in lots of celebrities. ⁓ A lot of them obviously can stay speak out about it, but I see it too in when I speak with clients years later, because when children become adults, they often say, I feel like my parents' divorce ruined me in that I have all these issues now because of the way they handled their divorce.

And then children who become adults make this active decision and say, I don't want the relationship with one or both parents, whatever it might be. And I'd hope that the fear of that makes some parents wake up and say, but I want that to happen in the future. don't, one, want to ruin my child's adulthood, but two, I don't want them to choose one day to not have a relationship with me because of what I was doing.

Look, I don't want to call people out and say, you're selfish, but we're all a bit selfish. And I look, I am. I tend to make decisions that benefit and suit me. But at the end of the day, I think we need to stop being a little bit selfish sometimes as co-parents, as separated parents. you know, our children didn't choose this. This wasn't their decision. made the decision for them, right?

Robert Poirier (25:57)
Right.

Gabriella Pomare (26:01)
We've had to make the decision for whatever reason, and I don't say stay in an unhappy marriage or an unsafe marriage to protect your children from living in a, not a broken, I hate the word broken home, but in a two home environment. But when you know that that's the decision you've made and that's the environment you've created, then do everything you possibly can to make it easier for them. Why make it more difficult?

Robert Poirier (26:26)
Yeah, it's, the kids, the kids, the kids. And it just goes back to, think so much of it again, goes back to wanting to be right. You know, wanting to, or wanting to put the kids in the middle to harm the other parent. cause you're still, you haven't done the inner work to get over whatever you're upset about. And I know there's cases when there's

Gabriella Pomare (26:36)
Yeah.

and

Yes.

Robert Poirier (26:48)
you know, if you want to talk about where there's personality disorders, you know, we're say it's narcissism and they can never be wrong, you know, and it's always about winning at the detriment of whoever, whatever. and I know those are special cases, but, ⁓ I think a lot of times people do get caught up in just wanting to win, you know,

Gabriella Pomare (27:00)
Yes.

And I think it's probably

a natural human element. We all have a bit of competitiveness in us and I get it. I'd like to be right all the time too. It makes me feel great if I'm right, but I'm not always gonna be right realistically, you know, and that's a hard thing. And you spoke about doing the inner work and I think you're entirely right. I think it's that healing process and that journey because I think until you've healed or you've at least started to process some of what's gone on, ⁓

Robert Poirier (27:15)
Yeah.

Right.

Gabriella Pomare (27:41)
you're not going to really be able to sit back and co-parent properly. And healing takes time. And I often get asked, but what does it look like? How do you know when you've actually healed? Right. And I don't think there's a time you would ever say I've fully healed from this. It's always going to be a little bit of a, you know, an emotional scar or a wound that you carry, whether you wanted a separation or not. But I think you know that you're on the right track when you're getting a message and you're not quickly responding with haste angrily trying to win. Right.

or when you get that phone call and you feel less anxious and you're not having that heightened emotional state. I think when those things stop happening and you disconnect a little bit, you do look at it a bit more like a partnership. I think that's when the healing really starts because you are finally learning to put your children first.

Robert Poirier (28:31)
makes sense. I've got two questions on this one with the boundaries, with the, with the boundaries and you're talking about setting those. Do you think it's okay to share that? Would you suggest even sharing that with your ex

how do you, how do you handle that? So there is that line if you want to say,

Gabriella Pomare (28:47)
Yeah,

I think it's important. think where it's something that you'll benefit from telling them what the boundary is, as you just said, that would make sense to share. And I think if it's going to help protect that high conflict dynamic or that communication style, you would share it, you know, just so you know, I'm not going to reply after eight because that's the time that we do bedtime with the kids. We watch TV, I read, go to bed, whatever it might be. Or look, I don't know.

Robert Poirier (29:14)
And I guess they

find out along the way too, Yeah, yeah.

Gabriella Pomare (29:17)
It's going to happen through practice. Yeah. ⁓ But

if it's your own personal boundary to protect your own inner work and your own emotional state, no, you keep it to yourself. That can often anger though that can, you know, sometimes when you are putting up those boundaries, can create that.

I think immediate reaction from someone, ⁓ he or she's doing this on purpose, know, it's to create an argument, they're doing this and that's not right either. So I think you've just got to navigate whatever the situation is and sort of work out what the right or wrong solution is at that time. And over the years, as you say, I think you'll get to know each other's style a bit better and people will change and the dynamics will change particularly if you do repartner and if families blend and all of that.

things will completely change again and the dynamic of the co-parenting relationship will again completely change.

Robert Poirier (30:10)
And hopefully showing respect for the way they're handling it or the way they're co-parenting, they'll do the same. hopefully. let me, let me ask you this. So if a parent was to mess up in front of their kids with co-parenting, do you think it's okay if they go to the kids and like, look, hey, dad really goofed with this with your mom. I should have, I overreacted.

Gabriella Pomare (30:17)
One would hope.

Robert Poirier (30:38)
You know what, I should have let you go and get ice cream, but, whatever it may be. Do you think that's okay for a parent to do that? Or how do you?

Gabriella Pomare (30:48)
Absolutely,

think, yeah. I think owning it is modeling healthy communication and adult behavior to an extent. You wouldn't be saying, hey, I had the affair and I'm really sorry for that, right? But if it's something like, and look, I've done it, right? And co-parenting to an art, I'll give you an example. The other morning,

Robert Poirier (30:53)
Yeah.

Gabriella Pomare (31:08)
little bit of an argument at home and I probably raised my voice and I shouldn't have. My son walked out of his bedroom and he goes, ⁓ who are you yelling at? What's going on? And I thought, you know, and first my immediate reaction was to say, I'm on a work call, sorry. And then I just owned it and said, no, you're right. I was getting too angry and you shouldn't yell and scream when you're angry. know, when you're angry, there are better ways to contain your emotions. You know, you breathe, you walk away and I think it helped.

But I think by owning it and apologizing where it's appropriate, yeah, your children know that you've acknowledged you did the wrong thing. You've hurt mom or dad's feelings, whatever it might be. And I think that's a good thing.

Robert Poirier (31:47)
Yeah, yeah. So tell me this top three tips, top three, top five tips to give to parents so that they can have a healthy collaborative co-parenting relationship. What are those?

Gabriella Pomare (32:01)
Yeah, I think number one has to be communicate without the conflict and emotion. That's just, I think, obvious from this chat. ⁓ I do believe there needs to be some flexibility. So two needs to be stay flexible. I know we all have parenting plans. We have court orders. That's important. That protects people's boundaries and keeps things safe and appropriate. But at the same time,

We are all human. think we forget that as soon as we've got a set of court orders or a parenting plan, forget, hang on, we have a proper family here to navigate and real life too. So we might be half an hour late one day, you know, we might have a birthday party or an event that pops up. Can we just sit back and be realistic and flexible too? I'll give you the extra Saturday for the niece's birthday, you know, you brought our son back half an hour late. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. Exactly right.

Robert Poirier (32:46)
Extending Grace

Gabriella Pomare (32:51)
So that has to be number two. And I guess three is it's just a simple one and it's, you know, children at the forefront of your mind with every single decision you make. That's the most obvious part of any co-parenting relationship, any separation. Child's up here number one all the time.

Robert Poirier (33:08)
Good. That's good. That's really good. What are we missing here?

I know there's so much. mean, I want to be respectful for your time and I appreciate you. I know for those that can't tell, which I'm sure everybody can, you're in Australia. We're on like completely different sides of the world. Um, which I always, I always love speaking with people down there and, um, but, uh, I, I appreciate you.

Gabriella Pomare (33:14)
The pencil. ⁓

Yeah, but isn't it funny?

It's interesting that I think this topic in particular, it wouldn't matter where you are. It's exactly the same. We're all going through the exact same issues. It's human life and we're all very human and very real. So outside of slightly different holidays or traditions, we're all navigating the same problems. And so it's nice to speak to different people and

I think it's really nice and what I love is collaborating with other people experiencing or having spoken to other professionals that have understood it or are trying to, because I think you always learn one thing from someone, right? You might pick up one sentence, one idea, and you say, you know what, I'm going to start implementing that now. I love that. And that is the benefit of having these chats.

Robert Poirier (34:15)
Yeah. All right. So going back with emails and responding to emails, it's listening, it's pausing, it's reflecting, and then it's your response. Is that correct? Okay. What, so anything else you want to share with everybody? on any other tips.

Gabriella Pomare (34:26)
Exactly right. That's exactly right. The full pillars.

I don't think so. think we've just got to remember that as I think I spoke about already, it is a journey. So even when you think you've got it down packed and it's perfect, things will change. So if you can implement some rules and boundaries, it makes it easier later on in life. And that is so important. Take it from me and from my experience at least that when you do blend families and then when there are step parents involved.

It's a different set of dynamics. It's a different set of respect you need to have for your other co-parent. You're always going to wonder what's going on in the other home. I do it Wednesday nights, my change overnight. And I often sit in bed at night and say, I wonder what he's doing now. I wonder what their routine's like. And you won't know everything. You can't know everything. And I don't think it's healthy to know absolutely everything that goes on in the other house. Yeah. I think that can create so much worse anxiety in your own mind.

Robert Poirier (35:22)
That's what I was about to say.

Gabriella Pomare (35:29)
And then you start making things up and that creates conflict. So it's, think, letting to let go as a parent a bit too, as hard as it is. Those days are hard, the days without your children, they're lonely. You were left wondering, but that's when you've got to sort of engage in that healing journey and take up hobbies and start finding yourself again. And if anything, look at it as an opportunity for you to almost recreate. You get this now opportunity to choose how you want to live life, to choose how I'm going to change things now.

what I'm going to be interested in, the types of things that I now want to do, and you get a bit of that control back.

Robert Poirier (36:04)
Gosh, that's so important. And that's so such beautifully said. It really is. ⁓ because you do, you have that time and it's all right. Well, you know, these are the cards that these, this is the hand that I'm dealt. ⁓ might not be what I wanted. My future might not look like what I thought it would look like, but what am I going to make of my life? Am I going to sit here and be miserable and wondering what my kids are doing while they're at their, you know,

Gabriella Pomare (36:16)
Mm.

Robert Poirier (36:31)
my exes, their, their parent, their other parent, or, you know, what can I do to better myself? What is it that I'm interested in that I want to explore? And, ⁓ and hopefully, hopefully those are things that you can then share with your kids too, you know, and, and they pick up on that again with the modeling, but, ⁓ look, how can, how can people find you besides seeing you on TV all the time? And you're not just the funny thing is we were talking about before you're not just on.

Gabriella Pomare (36:35)
Yeah.

or not. Exactly.

Robert Poirier (37:00)
television in Australia, you're on more here and you're even on several times you've been on the local, one of the local news stations here in Atlanta as well. but how can people find you?

Gabriella Pomare (37:10)
I love the people

who do. ⁓ Instagram at the Gabriella Pomari. ⁓ I share a lot of tips there where I can, videos, suggestions. You can grab a copy of the book Barnes & Noble, Amazon, anywhere online. And my website www.thecollaborativeco-parent.com. And there's a lot of useful resources there and some free eBooks on communication actually. So there's one thing you walk away.

from today thinking is if I want to improve my communication, jump on, grab a free copy of that and that should help a little bit too.

Robert Poirier (37:43)
It's a it's a great website. It really is and ⁓ I think we found or I found you through Instagram I believe it was ⁓ and You do you have a lot of wonderful tips on there and your website is this phenomenal it really is and

Gabriella Pomare (37:46)
Thank you. ⁓

Thank you. It's

important to be able to share what wisdom you do have with other people. As I said, one person, if you can change their mind about the way they do things, then you're doing a good job.

Robert Poirier (38:08)
That's true, because you've got to think about the future generations too, right?

Gabriella Pomare (38:12)
Yeah, exactly right. Our children.

Robert Poirier (38:13)
All

right. And I will, I will put a link with, uh, or I'll, I'll, I'll include a link with everything with your Instagram, your webpage and all that. look, thank you again for joining us. And so it's morning time. It's like seven o'clock here or something like that. 7pm here and

Gabriella Pomare (38:29)
It's

11am here, so yeah, we've got the day ahead of us. Well, I'm usually doing all these wonderful good day Atlanta good day whatever it is in the middle of the night. So it's nice for a change to do something during the day when we're a little bit more switched on.

Robert Poirier (38:32)
Wow. I'm winding down and you're going. ⁓

Well, I appreciate you coming out and you know, I was thinking if you're okay with it, maybe when we get closer to the holidays, I know you are probably very busy then. And maybe we even pre-recorded a few months in advance. Yeah. Maybe we can do that. We might be doing it like in October because I'm sure you're going to be very busy, but you know, let's look at that and maybe giving tips to parents that how to handle the holidays. Cause I know that can be a very, very stressful time and

Gabriella Pomare (38:55)
Sorry. It's my favorite topic. We'll definitely do something.

Certainly.

Robert Poirier (39:13)
It's stressful anyway, but then when you add co-parenting in there, can be very stressful.

Gabriella Pomare (39:13)
Yeah, it's

It's incredible. That's why I came over to the US last year at that time. I did a tour and basically every conversation was about how do we navigate the holidays now. So very important topic.

Robert Poirier (39:28)
⁓ Gabriella, thank you. Okay, I appreciate you coming on.

Gabriella Pomare (39:30)
Thank you. Thank you. It has

been really great. I appreciate your time and I look forward to hearing it.

Robert Poirier (39:35)
Definitely definitely. Hey and thank you all for listening to the dad to dad's podcast You can spot find us on Spotify or Apple as well as most platforms You can also find us on Instagram and YouTube Don't forget to hit the like and subscribe button and feel free to leave a comment. I read every one of them I actually love reading those and Especially appreciate your show show suggestions as well. So look, thank you all again, and we will talk to you next time