Why Email Marketing Is Still King for Nonprofits in a Social Media Obsessed World

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Hey changemakers!

Tune in for an inspiring deep dive on this episode of the Just Be Cause Podcast with special guest Sami Bedell-Muller, digital marketing expert and host of the Digital Marketing Therapy podcast. 

Are you still convinced social media is the holy grail of nonprofit outreach? Think again! In this energetic and eye-opening conversation, we challenge the myth that “more posts” equals “more impact,” and reveal why email marketing reigns supreme for building authentic relationships and driving real results.

Sami and host Katherine Lacefield unpack how small but mighty teams can use digital tools strategically—without burning out—to grow their fundraising, steward their donors, and keep supporters coming back for more. 

• What does it really mean to “own your audience”? 
• How can you automate outreach while still making donors feel special? 
• And why is recycling content more than just eco-friendly—it’s smart marketing?

Get ready for tangible tips, energizing mindset shifts, and plenty of fun as we explore how nonprofits can ditch the scarcity mindset and start connecting with donors in meaningful, sustainable ways. Are you ready to take back your nonprofit’s power and make your mission stand out online? Don’t miss this actionable episode!

Resources

Connect with Sami on Linkedin

The First Click Website

Meet your fundraising expert

Thanks for listening to Just Be Cause Podcast! I'm Katherine Lacefield the founder and head consultant of Just Be Cause Consulting.

My goal is to partner with YOU nonprofits and philanthropic organizations to help you make a positive impact in your community.

With over 20 years of experience in the nonprofit and philanthropic sectors, I help organizations optimize their operations with key knowledge in various domains, such as fundraising strategy, grantmaking research, communications, and development.

Sign up to my newsletter, The Nonprofit Nuggets for FREE fundraising advice, tools and guidance!

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Transcript

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I support a strong email marketing strategy just because it's the easiest and most effective way to stay connected to your donors and keep them coming back for more. Welcome to the Just Because podcast. In a space in which the scarcity mindset has been normal for far too long, discover how we're helping nonprofits finally take back their power, find their true purpose, and even use mindfulness to manifest their dream solutions into reality. I'm your host, Catherine Lacefield, a lifetime nonprofit professional. Together, we'll master the tools needed to overcome limitations, rise in times of adversity, and understand the interconnectedness of all causes towards a more conscious philanthropy. Just because it's the right thing to do. Hello. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Just Because podcast. Glad to have you back. For those who listened to the last one, last episode, we talked about how passion is simply not enough when running a nonprofit. And today, we're gonna cover why email is actually king in our social and media obsessed world. And that's something that I don't think a lot of people think about. They're like, no. Maybe social media is the way to go. Well, Sami Bedell Muller is gonna be talking to us about how maybe that is not the right strategy for you. So Sami founded The First Click to support nonprofits in the online fundraising journey. She helps organizations get more visitors to their website, turn them into donors, and, of course, retain them. Stewardship is key. Sammie started her journey in the nonprofit space back in 02/2006, and she's gonna tell us all about that soon, and has held every job from founder to development to event planning and everything in between. In 02/2017, she started her own company so she could support more organizations in growing their impact. Now she's also the host of the digital marketing therapy podcast, which I will be on in the next few weeks. And she loves educating nonprofits with featured guest experts like Lois Knopf and all things marketing, fundraising, and mindset. So, Sammy, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. So as we mentioned, as many people in the nonprofit sector, you've done a bit of everything. You've been in many different positions in in the nonprofit. So how did you get more involved in the digital nonprofit space? Was it through your work or was it through anything else that kind of triggered that more specific interest? Yeah. Well, I mean, I remember in 02/2006 when I started my own nonprofit, like, still printing the newsletter on, like, colored paper and mailing it out to everybody. Right? Like, that was still the thing, like, folding it and stickering it and and sending it out. And so I think it's just been an evolution. I believe that every single job that I've had, and I think so many people would say, like, you kinda just get thrown into it. You know about half of what you should be doing, and then you kind of learn the other half as you go. And so just kind of finding the balance between yes. The offline fundraising piece is still so important that face to face is still the most important. But what I love is how do we bring the digital in to help automate and do things en masse to support that so that we can still stay in touch, we still can connect, we can still, stay top of mind with people while we're having those all important kind of face to face conversations. So helping us make the most of our time. So that was just an area that I loved. And so I just kind of continued to learn more and more and dabble in it as I kind of move through my career. Mhmm. And I I really like what you say about the automation process because we have to be honest here. Most nonprofits are very small teams, small but mighty, and we tend to be doing many different things that we don't necessarily have all the skills to do. And that's what I think the digital space can really help automate the process so that people have more time to maybe develop other skills and take the time to do those one on one personalized stuff. And so I think it can be a really great catalyst. But the question I think most people say is, like, where to start and, like, what should I focus on? And that's what I'd love to talk about with you today. So when I even as as consultants, a lot of people are like, oh, you need to have a social media presence. You need to be active. And so I remember starting and I was, like, on all the platforms, Instagram, TikTok, threads, this, YouTube. And honestly, I haven't seen much come back from it. Of course, the nonprofit space is different, but why do you still feel that email marketing is king when it comes to digital marketing other than instead of maybe more social media? Yeah. I mean, there's a couple things there. Number one is just the data. So across industry, the ROI on email is still the top. It's still the thing that generates the most revenue and donations, whether you're e com, whether you're like, all of the things. It is like a $40 return for an a dollar investment. That's the stat that has been true for years. So that alone is kind of the first reason why I think it's more impactful. Number two, you own that information. You know who the people are, you know how they're engaging and interacting, you have their information, you could send them an individual email if you wanted to. It's just more personal. And even though there's privacy changes and things like that, that change deliverability into your inbox, you still have a lot, a lot more visibility. And it's just a way for you to really control how you're communicating and how people can interact with you. Right? Your email is not going to get less deliverability because you have a link in it. If you have a link on social media, you get as much deliverability, right? Yes. So, I just think it's a great way to tell your story. It's a great way to stay top of mind, and the ROI in itself is just why email should be part of your process. A %. And I think that that is even more so true. So for those listening, like, we record we're recording this in February, which is not too long after the whole TikTok issue in The United States where well, I think it's one of the most important things that you said is that you own your data. You own that list, and they are yours compared to, let's say, on social media where it's it's not so clear. Right? So, like, they can suddenly close the the the platform down or change the algorithm, and suddenly you're not getting the same deliverability that you've been getting for so long. So you're really no longer at the mercy of the changing algorithms or nature of social media platforms. So have you noticed or have you had any situations where that has caused, a big problem for some of your clients? Where or how do you feel they or that push them to switch to email? I haven't seen it be like a push. I think it's more just the understanding of, how are we spending our time and efforts and what are we getting back from it? So you said earlier, like you, you know, did all the things on social media, you didn't really see that return on investment. So I think it's more just we are a limited team. We are a smaller team. So how can we spend our time more wisely? And so for us, it's kinda like the website is your your big piece. Like, that's where all of your content is living. Your email is pulling from that. And it's that mindset flip of we can still post on social media and use it, but we're not creating new for social media. We're just taking from our email newsletter. So it's like just the order where we create content that we've kind of flipped. So it's not necessarily getting rid of, but instead changing our process and our flow so that it's easier, and we can still almost get the same amount of stuff done, with the same amount of time because we're just thinking about our process a little bit differently. Oh, god. A %. And, like, I think that's something that's been lacking that I've seen a lot of nonprofits is focusing on how to build up their newsletter list. Like, people will end up on their newsletter list if they were a donor only. But when you're looking into how do you build relationships with people, what you said earlier around, you can also choose to send more personalized messages or individual emails. On social media, like, I think it's a bit more difficult to have that segmentation of, like, I'm gonna send this post to these followers. Like, you you can have that level of personalization. Yeah. You can send a DM. Okay. But Yeah. It just I feel like it's not the same kind of personalization that you can have. So you're talking about the website of, like, that's being one, and then you do the emails, and then you can do social. So we're we're obviously talking a lot about recycling content. But for you, how do you see email marketing having an impact on different parts of the organization? Like, we've talked about, you know, donations, but how else can you use emails within a nonprofit? So one of the things that I love is, nonprofits have access to Google Ad Grant, which means they you can get$10,000 in The US, Dollars Ten Thousand of free ad spend on Google. And so one of the flows that I love is, like, really being thoughtful of, okay, I can run Google Ads to the problem that we're solving. And I can kind of educate people and send them to a blog post or send them to a services page on my website and say, this is really something that we solve. You know that people are searching for that topic, that pain point, they get to your website and you have a freebie or a resource lead magnet, whatever you want to call it, that they can access because it's going to help them solve the problem. So I know you work a lot in the pet adoption space. So maybe you find that the, that, one of the biggest struggles is that when people are coming to your facility to adopt a pet, they don't really know what questions to ask as far as who's gonna be the right fit for your household or what type of animal would be the right fit for your household. So maybe you have a quiz that's like, what, what type of animal is best for me? And you they come to that quiz. They don't even know that you're a nonprofit. They fill it out. They get all the answers and they kind of then you can target them in email. So now you're building a list of people that could use your prod products and services, your programs, whatever it is that you do. They're getting valuable information from you right away. They're getting to know you. And then now you use email as a nurture sequence to tell them more about who you are, what you do, how you, support your community and why you're the best place for them to go to to solve the problem that they have because they have a problem because they put it into Google. So that kind of flow is something that, I really love to do with with our clients. I think what you were just presenting is absolutely amazing, and a lot of people don't think of it that way when they're thinking about Google Ads. I've heard many nonprofits say, oh, yeah. I'm just gonna post my fundraising campaign as a Google Ad. I'm like, no. That's probably not gonna work at all because you're not building a relationship with these people. Your quiz is a great idea or a resource. One of my clients, the Australian Animal Protection Society in Melbourne, we did they they had developed this enrichment guide to create all these amazing homemade toys for dogs, and they had 10 different ideas of, like, make your own to keep your animals busy so they don't eat your couch. And so, obviously, this was an issue for for a lot of people or how do we keep our pets busy, which obviously has a dual purpose. Number one, keeping them busy at home, well, the less likely to cause destruction, less likely they wanna abandon them and give them up. Because I understand a dog that destroys your house all the time, like, there are some Yeah. There it is a big challenge. So if we can give them that information, then we can also help improve our own services and in our own mission. But then on the other side, by downloading this guide, what happened? Well, they got the guide by email, and then we have this automated welcome series that explains to them more resources. Oh, did you know we also have a vet service and grooming service that all the profits go towards the shelter? Do you know about our foster? And we were able to really build up this knowledge about the organization's work. And, of course, it ended with a an invitation to donate, and then after a couple emails, it was an invitation to become a monthly donor. So Yep. What I love about this is that we're using ads and, like, a resource, let's say, on your website that is hosted there that they can download if they put in their email, and then we're creating this amazing system that is automated in the back end. Yeah. Well and I love that. And even if you aren't running ads, it's something as simple as being intentional with how you're funneling people. So, like, we've talked about this before, where, like, you don't wanna give people too many decisions. It's like, this is what we do, and this is how we do it. I think as nonprofits, we tend to get a little bit too, like, I have to tell you everything we do so that you can understand all of the amazing things we do. Instead, let's provide value for the pain point that we know. So whether it's, like, you're at a pet adoption event or you're at a conference or Mhmm. You're at a community vendor event or wherever you're at. Even if it's not ads that you're running, that you have QR codes, but everything always runs specifically to that same value add, that quick win that they're gonna get. Because the goal is to get them on your email list. Because from there, you can start to disseminate and build all of that information and build that trust, just like you said with that automated sequence. So having that one or two, two lead magnets that you know are going to really provide value to your audience that is gonna solve a pain point for them that they're excited about, doesn't talk about you and everything you do, but it's gonna give them a win. That's critical, and then you just go from there. Mhmm. And I think just to bring it back to to the social media thing, that doesn't mean that social media doesn't have its role to play. But how I see it is using that same strategy that you're mentioning about Google Ads, doing the same kind of thing on social media. Instead of asking people directly to make a donation when they just started following you or they they'll see your page, like, unless they have a relationship with you, they're much less likely to donate just through social media. I'll put a little caveat here if this is different for huge organizations, especially when they're doing emergency funding for worldwide known disasters, like the Red Cross when they're fundraising for Ukraine or fundraising for wildfires, they tend to, yes, have success on social media and on Google Ads. But let's be honest, that's not everyone. Yeah. So that same that same concept of that freebie that you're doing in a conference or whatnot whatever, you can do the same thing on social media. That is what does work on social media of, like, hey. Like, look at this amazing thing, like, these toys that we just developed, that we made homemade. Look at the little demo that we're doing on TikTok. And, like, if you wanna have an access to our guide, like, click here and you can then that's when the funnel is gonna come in, and you're gonna lead people towards your emailing list. Mhmm. Yeah. I think social media is a great place to build trust, to build brand awareness, and to provide value. And like you said, get them in included. I think your email list is much a much better place for you to convert. I will say that the issue, if you if you've tried email in this way and it's not working for you, it's probably because all you're doing on your emails is asking for donations and you're not providing value. So the challenge to knock on organizations in general is you need to be emailing consistently and regularly and sharing value and sharing impact, sharing stories, being inspirational, not asking. So when you get to those points where you're launching your your registration for your gala or a run walk or your year end campaign. When you are going into those promotional periods and you're making those asks, people are being like, oh my gosh. We've been getting all this information. We see all this great stuff that they're doing. Of course, we're going to participate. Or we're going to share with our and or we're going to share with our friends and family, because the last time you don't want the last time they heard from you to be the last time they gave to you or the last time you asked for a gift. Oh, %. And I think that that is is something that the retention aspect and the stewardship is more than just saying thank you, thank you, thank you. It's also sharing stories of impact. And also using your emailing list to ask for more than just a donation in the sense of why can't they also maybe be invited to be a volunteer? You need specific volunteers. You do your call out to your donors, which makes them feel more involved in other ways. If you have a petition going on, you have a new resource, a new blog post, you're launching a podcast about your mission. Like, there's other ways that you can share resources and, like you say, provide value, but also show them all of the amazing work you're doing. Because if all you're doing is trying to get their money, people tend to feel like just a number. Oh, that's what I'm here for. And then they'll stop opening your emails. A %. A %. It's Yeah. Yeah. No. And I think my favorite thing is, like, one example that I can share is we have a client. We started doing their general newsletter. And when I first started with them, they're like, yeah, we want an email newsletter, like, once a quarter. And I was like, well, no. Like, we're gonna do it every other week. And they're like, well, we don't have anything to say. We don't have capacity to do that. And I was like, yes, we do, and it will be fine. So we started doing it every other week. And then, we started just announcing, like, hey, here's some stuff we're working on, and here's what's coming in the pipeline. Here's what's coming in the background. And and they happen to be an organization that is starting to expand nationally, with some of their programming and curriculum. So all all of a sudden, we sent an email out with an announcement email that, hey, we're working on this virtual project, and we're really excited about being able to offer support for families, where regardless of where they're located. And they all of a sudden got a gift from somebody who hadn't given in a couple years, and they got a gift of$500 from somebody that had never given to them before but was in their circle. Because and he wrote and said, I'm so excited about this that you're kind of growing nationally. Like, I don't live where you're located, so it didn't really make sense for me. But now this is super cool. It can support families in my community. So you the beauty of an email list is you never know. And when you're sending information on a regular basis about what you're doing, it's gonna trigger somebody. Like, I might care more about training animals. I might care more about rescuing them off the street. I might care more about, you know, spaying and neutering or whatever. And you might do all those things. But when you send a regular email and you have the opportunity to talk about all those things in small bite sized pieces, it connects with people at a different level where they're at when they care about it. A%. Like, I don't know how many times I've told people, like, your audience isn't one persona. Like, there's so many different profiles within your audience. Okay. Yes. They're all environmental activists or they're all, like, all mental health proponents or Right. Whatever it may be. But within that, they'll have different stories and different aspects of your work that will talk to them. And something that I think is really interesting is also, like, what we're we don't have any new programs, like but you have new success stories. Why don't you share a story about a volunteer that's been working with you for fifteen years, and why do they volunteer with you? Like, be creative. And to come back to what you said before, it's recycling content is also a good thing. We're all eco friendly now about recycling. Like, why not do the same about your content? Bring it back with a new refresh of, like, last year, we did this, and, like, this year's event, we did this instead. Like, what did you guys think? Asking people to interact, from what I understand, also helps your deliverability. If they actually reply to your email and say, oh my god. Like you just mentioned, I donated because I'm in love with this project. It shows that your your email list is active. So I definitely think that these are all amazing tips to get people to realize, like, you also need to do it regularly, though. You can't do an email every four months because what are the odds that that person's gonna actually open that email, first of all? %. Yeah. No. It's so good. And so many platforms are including things like polls and interactive elements that make it super easy too. So I love that you brought that you brought that up. And I the one thing that I'll say well, I say I've said a lot of things. But when when you're thinking and this is just in general for your messaging and marketing, like, it would be great if everybody read every social media post, every email, picked up the phone every single time we called. Like, they're not doing that. So you feel like you've said it a hundred times. They've maybe seen it once. So I think that's the pressure we put on ourselves to create news. So I love that you keep bringing back up the recycling piece of it is it's like, I'll take my newsletter and the, my newsletter goes out on LinkedIn as a LinkedIn newsletter. And, I always have like an intro part to my email, and then I put my resources below. That is a separate social media post that goes out also. So, like, if you're on LinkedIn, you're you might be getting my email in your inbox. You might be getting my newsletter. And you're still getting the same piece of content as a post on LinkedIn three times in the same week. And I've never had anybody say to me, I already saw this. Like, why are you sharing this stuff so much? Like, never that's never happened. It's never gonna be an issue. No. But I'm not creating new, and now I have three pieces of content that are done, like, in two seconds. Exactly. And I think that's where putting our the so much pressure on ourselves to always make this perfect content and stuff. And, like, all you need to do is make some little tweaks around format, and usually you'll be fine. Exactly. And what's the worst that's gonna happen? Like, oh, no. They're gonna say, oh, no. I have already seen this. And what are they gonna do? They're gonna just close the email or not read the full post. Yep. And that's it. Like, there's nothing bad that's gonna actually come from that. And at the end of the day, everyone says people need to hear the same message, especially if you're doing a campaign. Perfect example, I'm doing a a peer to peer campaign now for myself. I'm doing a little sterilization campaign for for some stray animals in in Colombia. And, like, I asked all my friends individually, and they're like, yeah. Yeah. Like, I'll I'll I'll I'll donate, you know, later today. Do they do it? No. Do I have to reach out to them and repeat the same message? Yes. Do I have to do it subtly in different ways? Yes. Do they end up doing it? Yes. Because I've repeated the same message, it's still the same campaign, still asking from you the same thing, but I'll sometimes package it a bit differently. Or I'll send a, like, personalized story with it, but I'm doing the same ask. So you don't have to constantly be doing new things, but sometimes it's just about repackaging it in a different way, and then people will just notice it differently. A %. Yeah. I it's I can't I just think how many times I saw a post on social media, and I'm like, oh, that's a really cool product. I wanna check that out. And then by the time I'm actually ready to do it, I can't find it again because I'm not getting anything else from them anywhere else. So Exactly. I also think that mind frame shift of if I can lead with value and lead with what's in it for them versus give, give, give to my organization, if I if I continue with that mindset, then me continuing to ask them is just giving them the opportunity. They said, yes, I'm interested. So I'm actually taking that opportunity away from them if I don't continue to ask, reinforce, stay top of mind. You know? Like, I'm taking that away from them. And I think that that's a different way to think about it as opposed to, well, I'm bothering them or I'm pestering them or they're gonna think I'm annoying. If they think you're annoying, they're gonna unsubscribe to your email list and great congratulations for you because now you don't have to pay for them to be on your email list. And they're just not the right fit for your organization, so you don't wanna waste time and effort on them. Put your time and energy on the people that are the right fit. So we just have to think about all of that differently. And that's the whole scarcity mindset and, like, fundraising in general. People are so so damn scared of bothering people. And I'm like Yeah. If they're bothered, they will leave. That's all. Like, they're what? Yes. I've had people say, please stop calling me. Okay. No problem. No. Like, that's it. But just just today, I I remessage one of my friends. Like, I knew she wanted to donate. Like, well, at least that's what she said. And I know she's an animal person. So I wrote I just nudged her, and she's like, oh, thank you so much for the nudge. Like, I just donated. Yep. Imagine if I had always been nervous and scared about asking. Like, you have to understand how much money you're leaving on the table with that fierce mindset. And email, it's like it's not like you're harassing them and knocking at the door every day. It's an email. Like, most of the time, people are just so busy. They just didn't see your email or they opened it, and then they're like, oh, yeah. That's great. And then they had 20,000,000 tabs open and completely forgot about it. Number of times where I've started emails and then forgot to send them because they stayed in my draft. Like, this is all like, I'm sure everyone listening is like, yep. That's happened to me. Well, you have to I always assume that that is what's happened to my friends, to my followers, to my subscribers. It's not that they suddenly hate me. It's just that they have lives. And if we don't continue that connection, that regular communication, like, they're just gonna forget about it, and that's not what you want. Think about the ecommerce forms that email you. How many times do you get emails from Amazon or your favorite retailer or even, like, even streaming services like Netflix that will say, hey. You should check out this or this is your new watch. Like, even things that you're already paying for that you use all the time. They're still emailing you regularly. It's the same reason why, like, you see brands advertising on TV that are household names. It's like Mhmm. They have to do it to stay top of mind. You have to do it just to budget you. Mhmm. And I think that's where the recognizability for me, it's just when I see someone or something's popping, even if I don't read the email, I know who it's from. Subconsciously, it registers Something's happening. So they're do oh, they they just sent out another email of another action. And just I don't even need to know what it is. And just the fact that I've seen their email title, I'm like, good on them. Like, they're doing something else. Wow. They're so busy. Look at all this stuff they're sending out. Yeah. If it constantly says, like, support us, donate, then, yeah, I'll ignore. If it says, like, sign this petition, new action, new campaign, even if I don't open it, I'm noticing it. So don't be so, like, dismissive about the power of of of email, and that's going directly to their mailbox. I'm sorry. But notifications on social media, even if I'm subscribed to someone's page, like, you open it once. And once it's, like, red, forget about it. I completely will never see that notification for your post again. So I feel like, yes, this isn't a a bashing on social media, but it's just about using social media and knowing its role and knowing the advantages of building up your email list for the long term of building relationships with your donors, staying connected to your audience, and also being as a source of acquisitions that you can keep more, like, control over the content that these people are seeing. Yep. So That's it. What would you say is what would you say is one of the most common problems that nonprofits reach out to you about? Be it be it about email or in the general digital marketing space, what would you say is one of the biggest challenges that, they face? Yeah. I would say the biggest challenge is is messaging. So it it comes across in everything you do from your offline and online fundraising. So, like, what we get the most where we start usually is, okay. Well, what problem do you solve? How do you solve the problem? Why are you qualified to solve the problem? Like, that core piece, most people have lost track of because maybe you've been around for a long time or you're new and you don't have proof of concept yet. Or you've just been in, like you said, the scarcity mindset. And so you're just trying to grab at whatever dollars you can that you're kind of not really sure exactly where your focus is. And so that's usually where we start. And then the biggest issue is just donor stewardship in general. Like, really, how are we taking care of the people that have already said yes to us? We're so focused on new, new, new, new, new. So a lot of times when we work with people, it's like reeling them back in and saying, okay, at the core, what is it that you actually do? And, how are we taking care of the people that have already said yes to us? Like, when we start there, that helps us really lay out that foundation, and it's really that simple. I know. And it it drives me nuts how I kinda feel like it's like the Tinder area. Right? Like, the speed dating of, like, we're in this era of swipe, swipe, swipe. Oh my god. I got a new connection. Wonderful. And then instead of building a conversation with this person, we're just continuing to swipe, hoping to get another connection, but not actually taking the time to go up to that first date, which is the donation, or the second date and the third date. But isn't the point and I believe the point of fundraising is to build long term relationships because you want monthly donors. You want major donors. You want those people that are gonna show up when you ask. And to do that, you need to take the time to build those relationships. And, also, just to bring it back to your original point around ROI, acquiring new donors all the time costs so much more than just retaining the donors you have. So if we're thinking about you're a nonprofit, limited capacity, and you wanna make sure that your fundraising costs stay low, it is not by constantly doing ads and going out there and trying to get new people. If you should do one thing, it's let's like you said, reel it backwards a bit and focus on what do we have already, and let's build relationships. So these 200 people, these 300 people, we can get as high a percentage of them that stay with us long term. %. Well, I think that's the beauty of email. And if we kind of, like, put a put a bow on both strategies that we've talked about here is that your general newsletter, your general communication consistently is going to stay, keep you top of mind with your existing noters, keep them aware of the impact and the things that you're continuing to do build trust, and let them know that your dollars are being used for things, right? Like you're continuing to share all this amazing stuff, they're gonna feel good about it. And also the strategy of bringing people in through value add, whether it's through ads or through, like, connecting with people that you're out with on purpose or in person and having them get that value from that freebie that you have. Now you're still acquiring new people, and they're both coming into the same piece of content that you're then pushing out regularly, to kind of share your impact. So you're kind of able to do both. Now there's a lot more strategies, you know, to take it to the next level from there. But it's a great way to kinda do both at the same time and be really intentional and use one vehicle to communicate with both audiences to be able to retain and hopefully get the new people to give also. Oh my god. Exactly. And and I I feel like like, I used to phone call people. Like, that was my big thing. But that's extremely time consuming. I'm not saying not doing it. But if you wanna reach the most amount of people in the most high quality and controlled way, I feel like email is the only way or the best way. Yep. So I'd like to sum it up, like, from what we've talked about so far, there's the ROI from a simple how many more people are gonna make a donation through email. Second of all is that you add and you build value by creating great content that people are much more able to read, and you're just funneling people towards a more controlled environment that you control, in a sense. Not control in a weird way, but just in a you have much more things that you can you can manage versus social media, which kind of depends on the mercy of what's happening with the algorithms that month or that year. And then finally, of course, it allows you to really, retain your people long term, which also has a better ROI and just stay connected with your audience in general. So all of these things, like, I'm just curious. Like, for you, let's say I'm a new nonprofit. What would be one of your number one tips of how to build or how to start building up an email list? I mean, obviously, use the data that you already have. Likely, you do have a lot of data that you just haven't put in one place. So that's the easiest. Like you said earlier, your donors, your existing donors, your board. I think the other thing, and this is stupid simple, is literally just to ask. If you're on a at a networking event and you're meeting people, simply just saying like, hey, we have this great newsletter that we send out once a month. Could I could I add that to you or add you to that so you can get some information? Like, when you're on the phone with donors, when you're meeting with potential people one on one, like, just having that be your habit of, hey, we have this newsletter. When somebody says no, we're not, you know, we're not able to give right now. Okay. That's great. Can we add you to our newsletter? Like that simple reframe of just asking people, you'll be surprised at how that will grow. And then you can build into bigger strategies like creating your lead magnets, doing a quiz, ads. But just having very simple call to actions, like, right, you coach on when you're looking for donations, you're asking for a specific thing. We're always gonna ask for the monthly gift first. Like, that's what we're gonna ask for. We're always gonna ask for people to be on an email list. Like, that's it. Period. Like, you don't have to overcomplicate it and ask for too many things. And, I think that's just the best way to start. And on a website, what I've noticed a lot of people, like, don't hide your subscription form at the bottom of your thing, super subtle in your footer. Like, this is where I think a lot of nonprofits go wrong is that they don't put it at the forefront. If this is gonna be your main acquisition strategy to then build a relationship to get donations, put it at the forefront. Of course, have you if you're in the middle of a of a year end campaign, have your pop up or whatever be the ask for the solicitation for your fundraising campaign. Sure. But if not, regularly during the year, if you don't have that lead magnet that is gonna go towards an email, why not have a pop up? Like, hey. You wanna keep in touch with what we're doing? Sign up here. The pop up is, from what I've read in recent reports, is the number one converting thing to do to get emails. And if not, it's on top or in a sidebar and even within content. Just place it everywhere. Obviously, don't become harassing about it, but the more likely they are to see it is the more likely they are to join. So yep. As long as there's value add. That's the Yeah. For sure. I wanna make sure we make that clear. That value add piece is crucial because people don't just sign up for newsletters. They wanna know what's in it for them. Yes. And this is where I like the different ideas we shared about guides, quizzes, like, things that solve a problem that your donors have. So first of all, you need to figure that out. So that's a whole other conversation. So what problem are you solving? Or is it to offer services? Is that they wanna better understand the work that you're doing? So figure that out, and then you can build the value added content based on those questions. So do you have any final piece of advice that you would like to share with any nonprofits listening around how to maximize their use of emails? Yeah. I mean, the one thing we haven't touched on that I think is obvious that I just really quick is that when we're talking about email marketing, we are talking about using a third party tool. We are not talking about putting everybody's email in the BCC in your Microsoft Outlook and sending out a mass email. I just want to say that, just in case. So, like, if you're thinking of sending out a newsletter. The other thing that I wanna say is less is more when it comes to your newsletter. So if you're sitting here being like this is a whole other thing that we have to create, plain text emails are great and often work more effectively than fully designed crazy newsletters. So just get started with a simple message from your CEO or, like you mentioned earlier, a volunteer story. Like, they don't have to be crazy. They don't have to be crazy long. But just the simple fact of sharing your impact and sharing what you're doing on a regular basis goes a long way and get started. And you can grow from there. So, pick your timeline. I'm going to do it every two weeks. I'm going to get consistent. This is what it's going to look like. And then, test it out for a few months. But it don't overthink it and and don't make it too complicated. Simple is better and less is more. I think that's key of understanding. Don't wait for things to be perfect. And I love what you said about the plain text. And as much as it was, like, a a very short part of the conversation, like, I think plain text emails are probably very underrated and undervalued because when I get a what looks like a plain text email, I feel like it's written to me, not to a list of 500,000,000 people. It's to me. It says, hey, Kat. Like, I just saw that. I'm like, oh, like, this is an email destined to me. But then I I there's a my subconscious brain is like, this is a mailing list. Like, this is obviously not sent to you. But but I'm, like, ignored. I'm like, no. No. I'm special. Like, this is my email. And it makes it more personal, especially if you're talking in the I I did this. Like, I wanted to share this with you because I know that you're someone who cares. If you know your persona, you can talk with an angle and a voice that makes them really feel like you're talking to them. So I think that if you don't have the time or the creative skills, that's why I hired someone to do it for me, to make a nice newsletter design. And that looks much more commercial, I find, in a lot of cases, and then people see it as more like an ask or something. So it tends to not go as far. So, yes, I love that you added that because I think a lot of people tend to overcomplicate what their their newsletter has to look like. Mhmm. For anyone also looking for a newsletter, I have a toolbox that I share with all of these episodes on the top where I give some advice on some tools, including email management planable forms that I've used myself. I use Flodesk. I love Flodesk, and it doesn't limit you on the number of clients you have. So even if I have 50,000 emails, it's gonna be the same price as if I have five. So it's it's a great platform, but if not, you can find other ones in the show notes below. So, Sammy, I know this is we've been talking about emails. We've talked slightly about websites, but do you have maybe just just share us a bit about the services if people want to have your help with building their email or whatever. What other services do you offer for nonprofits? Yeah. So our biggest thing is really starting with your website first. That's truly your foundation. So how is it set up to really message and communicate well with the people that are visiting and helping you serve your mission? From there, our biggest wins are with content creation and creating value add and, creating resources to kind of build trust and create you as that thought leader in your space and the expert in what you're doing. And then using email marketing to, kind of help communicate that. So we kind of really use all three of those things together to build, like you said, that recycling machine that's just gonna help you, like, pump out stuff very easily, without stress, be able to utilize all the different elements, be able to add in social media, be able to have better connections with your offline customers and and donors because they can come back to those things and see consistency, and build that trust with you. So, that's really what we do, but our most favorite thing is just similar to you and the just because podcast, just being there as a resource and educating people. So, you know, the digital marketing therapy podcast is really our our baby and, what we really love to do most of all in supporting nonprofit organizations. Yes. And I'm very excited for my episode on monthly giving to come out in May, so that's gonna be fun. So for anyone listening, how can they get in touch with you? So we've talked, obviously, you have your podcast, but what would be the best way? Is it through your website, LinkedIn? Yeah. So our website, thefirstclick.net, has the most, free resources and has all of our podcast show notes and things of that nature. I'm most active on LinkedIn, so you can also find me there. Yes. And just a, like, little thing about LinkedIn, it is the best platform to be on from a professional connections perspective. So if there's one platform that you should, as a nonprofit professional listening to this podcast, invest in, it would be LinkedIn, in my humble opinion, because that is where you're gonna meet the most people. Of course. Yes. Instagram is fun and all, but if you wanna build authentic networking opportunities, please, there's one that you should do as an individual. It's LinkedIn. Alright. So, Sammy, this was so useful. I feel like if anyone listening, please invest in your email. Don't push it to the sideline. Make sure that you're building relationships with your donors, and email is the best way to do it. So thank you so much for your time. This was great, and I look forward to seeing what people come from take from it. Thank you so much. Thanks for tuning in to the Just Because podcast. Are you enjoying the content we're creating? We'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback. Thanks for leaving us your wonderful review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and hitting that subscribe button to have access to new episodes as soon as they drop. All of our affiliate partners are hand selected to offer you only tried, tested, and true tools to give your organization the absolute best. 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