Ep 40 Why RPO partnerships fail (and what ZRG and Symbotic did differently)

In high-growth technology sectors, talent acquisition leaders face an unprecedented scaling challenge: how can organizations rapidly deploy recruiting capacity while maintaining quality and cultural fit? The RPOA's 2025 RPO Trends Report shows that relationship quality ranks as the top factor in RPO partnership success. Technology companies scaling warehouse automation and robotics operations struggle to build recruiting teams fast enough to support 30+ site deployments across multiple states simultaneously. According to a McKinsey report, only strategic embedded RPO partnerships that integrate seamlessly with internal teams can deliver flexibility and expertise to achieve rapid, scalable workforce growth aligned with business goals.

Solving this capacity-quality paradox requires rethinking traditional vendor relationships. In this episode of the Time to Hire podcast, host Lamees Abourahma speaks with Matt Corbett, President at ZRG Embedded Recruiting, alongside his clients Martha Bradley and Alex McGrane of Symbotic, to explore how RPO partnerships evolve from transactional services into strategic talent engines. They reveal the communication practices, flexibility frameworks, and integration strategies that transformed Symbotic's recruiting operations during their IPO and explosive growth phase.

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About the Podcast

Time to Hire is produced by the Recruitment Process Outsourcing Association (RPOA), the leading authority on recruitment process outsourcing (RPO) foresight and innovation, and the trusted convener for the global RPO community. Through conversations with industry leaders, the podcast explores the trends, insights, and innovations shaping the future of talent acquisition.

Learn more about RPOA and join the community at: https://www.rpoassociation.org.

Follow the host, Lamees Abourahma, on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lamees Abourahma 0:08

Hello and welcome to Time to Hire from the Recruitment Process Outsourcing Association. Amnames Aburama. In this episode, I welcome RPA gold member Matt Corbett, president at ZRG Embedded Recruiting, and his clients Alex McGrane and Martha Bradley of Symbolic. We dive into the story of how Symbolic and ZRG built a dynamic partnership to tackle rapid growth, transform talent acquisition, and navigate the challenges of scaling in a high -tech industry. You'll hear firsthand how open communication, flexibility, and a shared vision turned a traditional vendor relationship into a true strategic alliance. Welcome, everyone, Matt. Please take 30 seconds to introduce yourself.

Matt Corbett 1:04

Thanks, Lamees, lovely to be here. Really appreciate you hosting this webinar. We're going to make this a fun, interesting, thoughtful conversation.

My background is 30 years in the talent space, so 10 years tech consulting, 10 years executive search, and now 10 plus years in RPO. Love building tech companies, and love sort of partnering with innovators.

I've been very fortunate to know Martha now for I think we were catching up earlier, over 10 years across three companies. So super excited for the conversation.

Lamees Abourahma 1:35 

Thank you. And Martha, welcome. Tell us about yourself.

Martha Bradley 1:41

Thank you and thank you for inviting me. I've enjoyed partnering with Matt all these years, and of course, joining Alex on doing anything is really fun.

So I have also been in the recruiting space for many years, predominantly with technology companies. One of the stressors that we have is building strong teams and finding prospects for our hiring leaders to be able to build those strong teams.

I'm excited to talk to this group today about some of the solutions that Matt has offered to us, but this is right up my alley. I love it. Thank you for having me

Lamees Abourahma 2:16

Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have you and welcome. Alex. How about yourself?

Alex McGrane 2:21

Yes, hi everybody. Excited to be here as well. So I echo Matt and Martha.

I've been in the recruiting space my whole career as well, mostly supporting the operations organization and then process tools and systems. So ZRG has been an amazing partner with us since we've been here. So excited to talk through that with this collective group.

Lamees Abourahma 2:41

Wonderful. And welcome to you as well. Alex, so Matt, I'll turn it to you to help us understand what to expect from this conversation and kick it off. Please go ahead.

Matt Corbett 2:51

Thanks. Lamees, so the goal here is we have sort of half an hour, and we're going to try and break the half an hour into various sections for six different sections. Let's talk about the origin story, how we started working together. Let's talk about sort of how we build the engine for scale.

Then we'll talk about some pivots and lessons and surprises. Maybe talk about what's next in great partnerships.

I think what's most important about this conversation is that it's around a partnership that is going through sort of fairly dramatic growth periods. There's sort of three parts of this story, three chapters. You've got the growth of Symbotic, which is just a remarkable leader in warehouse automation globally, and their innovation around robotics and AI.

You've got the growth trajectory of Hub, which was then acquired by ZRG. And then, thirdly, you've got a growth story about going from a vendor to a strategic partner.

So all of these three things happening simultaneously, like, how do you possibly puzzle this together? Is what I'm hoping the three of us are going to talk about.

So that's the plan, if we jump into origin story. So Hub, before we were acquired by ZRG, the company was called Hub, was already working with Symbotic when I think Martha and Alex joined the company. So why don't we start Martha with like, what was the situation when you joined Symbotic, and why did you stick with us?

Martha Bradley 5:00

Thanks for that question, Matt. Both Alex and I joined with our Vice President of talent, Pavi, right around the same time, three years ago. It was just a couple of months before the company was set to go public.

They had been really an R&D and testing site for this amazing, innovative warehouse automation project. A lot of the work that talent teams traditionally do were being done by a couple of recruiters, a couple of contractors like those that Hub had provided.

But it was time for some real, significant growth, so they bought the big guns in me and Alex to start building our teams, hiring folks, and helping our hiring managers and business leaders start to build their orgs. But there were only a couple of recruiters, a very small one person campus team.

The support we were getting from the Hub folks was fantastic, but it was a time that Symbotic really needed to put some rigor around what's the best practice. How do we find top talent, and how do we bring in the right people at the right time for the right org?

That's sort of what we were facing when we came in here. And quite honestly, I was a little surprised. It was harder than I thought it was going to be, and it's been a little bit, but it's been really fun to be here.

Matt Corbett 5:54

Alex, any thoughts on that before we jump into sort of the going from the origin story to sort of how you build the engine?

Alex McGrane 5:59

Yeah, I mean to echo what Martha said, right? We joined, and as soon as we went public, the rapid pace came headwinds at us, right?

We had to really identify how we were going to support those needs relatively quickly, and that's where we really started to partner with Hub and now ZRG right to build that foundation and that partnership for our TA team.

Matt Corbett 6:23

So let's go to that chapter, so you're going through an IPO, and so the fundamental trajectory of the business is changing. The rigor around the business is changing.

So how did that change the partnership you needed from Hub at the same time as Hub was going through a process of being acquired by ZRG, so it's a public company and now a PE company. So maybe Alex, if you could help me out first, like, how did your needs change?

Alex McGrane 6:48

Yeah, it changed with, we didn't just need extra hands and people to push candidates through the process, right? We really needed recruiters and a team that was going to take the time to understand our culture, understand the long-term vision, and become embedded in our Symbotic processes.

That's where, as Martha and I started to build the relationship and the conversations with Hub, that's where that really came to light, right in those early days. We understood quickly that this was going to be a partnership, not just a transactional service for us.

So that was really the beginning of us building that partnership and identifying how can we really have that transparency of communication of what the needs are for Symbotic and knowing that Hub was going to be there to support that and help us find the right recruiting talent to then help us find the right top talent for our business and our organization.

Matt Corbett 7:47

Love it. What about Martha? Do you mind? What, in your opinion, what is the difference between sort of a vendor and a built in partner? And how did you go from one to the other

Martha Bradley 8:20

Well, I have the advantage of working with Hub now ZRG through my last three companies, so I already had the partnership with the folks at Hub. But each time we have made that transition with a new company, particularly here at Symbotic, we look at a vendor to just send some resumes over. We'll take a look at them. We'll bring them through the whole process.

With Hub, we invite them to bring a recruiter into our world and learn right alongside of the recruiting team that might be part of the Symbotic full time employees. But we invite them to come and join and be part of the team. Feel the joys, feel the challenges, and become actually a partner to not just me and to Alex, but to our hiring leaders, to our other recruiters.

I mean, it's sort of a seamless - they're not just shoving candidates at us, they're actually helping us to build the company. That's like a really big difference when somebody is, you know, sometimes in vendor or agency world, it's eat what you kill, right? So we're just going to send a whole bunch of resumes and see what sticks.

But that was not the model for Hub, because the partnership was built on you lending us excellent talent to help us build this. It wasn't, you know, the model of success is not you get commissioned on every person that you feel but you are actually part of our team.

So that relationship and the folks that you've brought to us really wanted to be part of a team, as opposed to just filling in resumes. So does that answer your question?

Matt Corbett 9:56

It does beautifully. And it's funny how, when you work so closely, like we get, we start to get a sense of, you know, what is the right person for Symbotic. And so it just gets better over time.

But one thing I would love to dive on, if you don't mind Martha for a second, is, how did your needs change over time, and how were we able to adapt to those needs? Because I think as companies go through for you an IPO, for us, a private equity transaction, moving from vendors to a strategic partner.

Like, were there any services you needed that we historically didn't offer, that we had to bring in?

Martha Bradley 10:33

Yes, actually, one of the greatest adds, if I would, is like Alex and I both and Pavi and some of the members of our team both come from a large network of top recruiters in the area. But the company itself wasn't quite ready to bring on a huge full time employee group, you know, and pay like we didn't know we needed to remain flexible.

So while we had a good network of folks that we wanted to be working with, again, we needed a partner or a solution to help, sort of payroll them, if you will, so that they could join us, could help us.

When I was talking to you and to Laurie about how that might work, you came up with a solution which helped our recruiters come on board and be payrolled through ZRG Hub as part of our team here at Symbotic. That has been a huge help so that we can take talent that we need, continue to remain flexible, or take talent that we knew and could trust, continue to remain flexible.

And in some cases, just wait until we could convert them to full time, or maybe in some cases, you sent them off to somebody else if we didn't need them. So that flexibility has really been critical and a big part of our success.

Matt Corbett 11:58

Yeah, I think of the relationship, the partnership, as it's grown, it's just us trying to come up with solutions that meet your needs and help in any way, shape or form, sometimes completely crazy and out of the box. But if that's what you need to build Symbotic, then we're going to be there to help you.

But in stages of growth, right? There's always roadblocks, and there's always speed bumps and stuff like that comes along.

Alex, do you have any stories or any thoughts about any speed bumps or any issues we've had that we've sort of solved together as a team, where you look back and how that relationship transition stronger through sticky times?

Alex McGrane 12:39

Yeah. And to give some context to our listeners too, because we keep talking about this rapid, fast growth company that we're in right I want to kind of speak to that here for a second, because I think that helps tell the story.

When Martha and I started, before we went public, we had about 500 employees. We're almost at about 2000 right now. When we started, we only had five sites. We now have over 30 sites that are live, and we did that within a three year period.

So it has been immensely fast pace and high growth from a hiring perspective, and just for our operations team of growing our sites and the recruiters that we brought in through ZRG Hub helped us do that. Right, like that's the big story to this, too.

So I just wanted to add that context, because we keep speaking about it, so people had some awareness of what that actually meant for somebody.

When you think of the kind of the challenges or the directions, right, I think one of the biggest pieces was, you know, recruiters are still people. They still have to be the right fit. They still have to understand the culture and the environment and have the right skill set.

The biggest thing that we did in the learning was in the very beginning with ZRG/Hub, we met on a weekly basis, right we had open and transparent conversations with each other of what good talent looks like from a recruiter perspective, what's going to fit within our processes and procedures and how someone needs to operate, right?

So I think that was one of when I was reflecting back one of the biggest learnings, and the best things that we did was really start early and having that open line of dialog and rigor around the how and the when we did that too.

Matt Corbett 14:12

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? You find that even through wins or losses, so long as you treat it transparently, ethically, honestly, like any situation can build trust any situation, you can turn anything into a win by being an honest, ethical partner.

And I think that's quite unusual. It's almost doesn't exist in the vendor world, but it's the most important thing in the partnership world.

Martha Bradley 14:44

I might add on to that, and say the other value add with ZRG is, if Alex and I had specific hopes how somebody might improve that we could give that feedback to our account manager, and they could do some careful coaching, whether it was one of the employees that they were payrolling or one of the contractors that you had introduced directly.

And I really felt like there was that partnership too, so that we could help them be successful, but maybe not have to give the direct feedback, because I only like to say nice things, to say, like, really hard things.

Matt Corbett 15:26

Yeah, we will take care of the hard stuff. But it's a good point, right? Because sometimes in our business, there are these invisible parts of the process or the delivery that people skip over, but sometimes it's those invisible project management, skill optimization, delivery optimization, keeping a close eye on the KPIs like that can be the most powerful stuff.

You may not visualize it so much, but it's that invisible service partnership can add so much value.

But Alex, to what you said, though, I think the story of Symbotic is just truly remarkable five years, right? I mean, emerging as the leader in warehouse automation at a point where warehouse and supply chain and manufacturing is exploding in this onshoring era is just a fabulous story. So it's an honor to be a part of that.

What about sort of critical lessons you have for maybe other companies who might be looking at using a firm like ours, Martha, you want to direct grab on that one?

Martha Bradley 16:30

Part of my career in recruiting included agency recruiting. It included being part of an RPO, if you would, because I was like a gun for hire, where I would go in on site and do internal recruiting for company, and it's also been a technology recruiting leader. So I understood the value of the service that a company like ZRG can offer.

But I think that for anybody who's never tried it, first of all, it's going to really lighten your load, because of the keen focus that an RPO brings. You know they are in market, but not like sending a ton of resumes that are grueling to look at and hard to discern. You know, if somebody is actually the right fit, they've done the pre vetting because they're part of the team. They understand all of that.

So if you've never tried this model, like we still use agency for some of our roles, we have to use agency for some of our hard to fill permanent roles and go to companies that are experts. This is the team that we use at ZRG really is helping us build our team, the recruiting team, and that's the difference.

So we, you know, even our RPO people will sometimes work with agencies because the role is so hard, so they are just sitting in a seat or sitting remotely contributing at the same level that a recruiter who might be a full time employee.

And I would suggest that it's a great option. It provides flexibility. It's probably much more cost effective, because you might get, you know, 20 or 30 hires out of a really strong recruiter on an annual basis, and the fees that are tied to that can be astronomical if you're paying a contingency fee.

So the cost and the value is really important. I would say it's definitely worth investigating, and I'm a huge proponent of it. I hope I answered the question.

Matt Corbett 18:41

Oh, perfect, lovely. Thank you very much. Martha, Alex, what about you? Less about RPO or embedded, but more just a general advice about working with a partner?

Alex McGrane 18:51

Yeah, you have to invest in the time, right? Just, just like anything you're going to most likely do a lot of work on the front end to say, is this the partner that we potentially want to work with, and what are those reasons that we've identified, you know, ZRG, as that partner.

But then once they're there, and they are your partner, you still have to invest in that partnership, right? And I think it's really being thoughtful that that might evolve over time, right? Our partnership has evolved over time, over the past three years. You know, it started heavy with bringing us recruiters to help us support from a volume perspective, because we were going every different direction and we needed the support.

And then it turned into Martha's point, but we have a whole network of people. How can we partner with you to bring that network to us? Right? If we're not going to bring them on full-time.

And then it turned into, I want to call this out, right? We were able to even branch ZRG into other parts of our operations, organization and payroll, different individuals that were a little bit more senior, and we needed to think a little bit differently, right?

So, I think it's about being really thoughtful along the journey of the partnership, about what that looks like. However, it ultimately comes down to investing time. Having that open dialogue of communication is really key.

Matt Corbett 20:05

Doesn't it feel like the relationship changing and evolving over time is almost by definition a requirement of a good partnership, right? Like if it stayed the same, it almost isn't a partnership anymore, because everything is fluid. Everything is changing. We're changing. You're changing.

Therefore, sort of adapting and evolving is essentially a piece of a good partnership. Martha, any additional thoughts? We've done a really brilliant job, but we're coming up to half an hour pretty quickly.

Martha Bradley 20:38

Thoughts on what I have. Thoughts all the time. I don't know what you mean, Matt, but I'm gonna...

Matt Corbett 20:46

I'm gonna tee you up then. So because we've been friends for years, I appreciate you as great people, appreciate you as great partners, appreciate you as a dear friend.

Give me one word. How would you describe the partnership between Symbotic and ZRG embedded?

Martha Bradley 21:07

I thought about this because you gave me a pre-ask. So I'm not going to say, well, let me think, you know, I was thinking dynamic. Yeah, the word that kind of came to mind for me.

Matt Corbett 21:19

I love that one. That's a good one. Alex, what about you?

Alex McGrane 21:23

I came up with integrated, really, that's what we've been really part of our foundation, right? Of our kind of TA team and partnership. So because you guys have really integrated into our business.

Matt Corbett 21:39

Dynamic and integrated, I love those two. That's fabulous. Well, thank you so much. Lamees, do you have any additional thoughts or anything that I missed in this? You know, just lovely conversation with two fabulous partners.

Lamees Abourahma 21:49

You know, I was listening attentively, and I have a different hat than Matt. As we provide all this educational content for a broader audience of RPO buyers and providers. It's an entire ecosystem.

You touch on a lot of the questions that I was hoping to hear sounds in terms of the partnership. Matt, has it evolved just for clarity? Was Hub the first RPO that Symbotic worked with?

Matt Corbett 22:32

What a good question. I don't think so.

Lamees Abourahma 22:37

First generation, I was trying to figure out.

Matt Corbett 22:43

I think so. I think it was, I think we first started working with Symbotic, you know, quite a while before Martha and Alex joined, but it was a situation that they were going through. It was early stage of the business and sort of pivoting and adjusting the products to the market fairly early on, therefore hiring was inconsistent, but very targeted.

So that's how we got involved. And then it was about the time that's when sort of there was really just perfect product market fit. And so then the dynamism changed from sort of pivot and adjusting to scaling and delivery.

And I think Martha, correct me, if I'm wrong, that was when you and Alex sort of really joined, like, Okay, now we're going on a run. This is pre IPO scaling global to become the leader. Is that right? Martha?

Martha Bradley 23:26

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. One of the pivots that we had to adjust as a whole team was the talent transformation. We needed to be looking for top talent, in many cases, PhDs in robotics — some of the hardest talent to find.

And for Alex, people who were willing to travel and relocate to some of the most remote places in the world or in the country to run a facility.

And so the ZRG partnership, like they, were able to pivot with us. You know, as we made those changes, the ZRG team helped us get there too.

Matt Corbett 24:11

You know, Alex, maybe for a second, could you just touch on, like, because of Symbotic, because it's warehouse automation, robotics, AI, just maybe just describe some of the hiring dynamics. Like, you need to deploy a warehouse system in one state versus a different state, versus three simultaneously. Like, there are so many moving parts, and how do you do hiring for that?

Alex McGrane 24:33

Yeah, so we support, from an operations perspective and a hiring perspective, right? We don't physically do any of the construction ourselves, but we have, you know, an installation project management commissioning team that kind of oversees a lot of the actual subcontractors that do the work within our customers' facilities.

And I think a good call-out too is that these are not our distribution centers, right? We're going into our customers' distribution centers like a Walmart, and we're putting our robotics technology, the structure, the bots that are moving around, you know? We're putting those in existing DCs across the US network for various customers.

So we're also a guest in these facilities and kind of running their day to day operations. So from an OP side, right? We're really supporting the front end, from installation all the way through to when they're fully up and operational, because then we hire people to operate and help operate the technology at those sites as well.

So then we're embedded from a day to day with our customers also.

Matt Corbett 25:36

So that's complex. Doing one warehouse. How many do you have?

Alex McGrane 25:41

We now have over 30, and we're ahead in entering Mexico as we speak, as well, where we are launching two sites there.

Matt Corbett 25:45

So imagine the hiring talent, the talent challenges, deploying 30 warehouses over a period of, well, three, four years, while post IPO massive scaling, innovation, transformation simultaneously, like it's a huge complex lots of moving parts.

Alex McGrane 25:58

It's been a fun journey, and we're still on it.

Martha Bradley 26:03

Secret: Alex's job is so much harder than mine.

Lamees Abourahma 26:09

I was gonna say, you have exciting thoughts. You teach us to focus on metrics and numbers. So it's good that we are talking about the warehouse and the number and volume.

So, in terms of how you assess the partnership, what kind of KPIs do you look at? And Matt, I'll start with you.

Matt Corbett 26:34

Yeah, it's a great question. So on this, there are a lot of sort of inside baseball math that we probably can't or shouldn't disclose on this webinar.

But basically, I think we look at Martha, and keep me honest here, but there are really two trajectories around KPIs. There's SLAs that are required, individual projects, numbers of hires, pipeline requirements, and that's looked at.

But then there's also, there's a trust, the softer side of a partnership, of how you approach solutions, how you flex the solution, how you're transparent with pricing to make the partnership work.

But I think Martha maybe over to you again on this webinar, we're really not going to get into, like, the core math of what a pipeline looks like. But generally, any thoughts from you on that one?

Martha Bradley 27:24

On how we measure success?

Matt Corbett 27:26

Yeah, yeah. I mean...

Martha Bradley 27:31

There are traditional metrics that every recruiter knows, you know, we need to get to, but we also, because of, at least in the tech side, because we know that there are, you know, finding these PhDs or finding these top simulation robotics engineers is very difficult. We also slide down to how many offers were extended, or how many candidate profiles were you able to get to a hiring manager? How many people were willing to talk to you?

So all the measurements are part of the reporting that we do upstream, and we include the contract recruiters, our Hub partners in those metrics, and each has its own.

And the other challenge that we have is, you know, for the top talent, you know, we're competing against some really cool companies too, and we need all of our recruiting team, to really be unafraid or confident or be capable of telling the story and getting people excited.

So communication is a big part of what we train on and teach and, you know, like how to do that outreach and get people excited to be here. However, all of those things are also things that we measure for success.

Matt Corbett 28:50

But Lamees, one thing I particularly enjoy about the partnership with Martha and Alex with Symbotic, is that those KPIs are consistent through the internal team as our team. So there isn't a separation there. There isn't a single set of rules for one vendor and a single set of rules for an internal team.

It's unified, which I think produces much better outcome results. But Alex, Martha, any thoughts on that?

Alex McGrane 29:35

I think it helps build one team, right? And I think that's kind of what we talked about from the beginning, is we want to make sure there's that team cohesion and partnership and collaboration.

So many times, our recruiters have to work together too on various projects and initiatives or finding talent. So to have that consistency is really important.

Martha Bradley 29:41

And I do a one on one with every person that's sent over to us from Hub, just like I do full time employees, you know, on a weekly basis, sometimes every other week, depending on what the role is, sourcers or recruiter.

But like, when I have a conversation with them, I don't think of them as, oh, you're just like a part-time contractor. It's like they are part of our team. And...

Matt Corbett 30:06

Yeah, I think really, that's so important for integration, seamless operations. I don't think it's focused enough Lamees in terms of a key element of a great partnership.

Lamees Abourahma 30:19

Yes, you all answered the question exceptionally well. I think what we want to highlight is the partnership is strategic, and that's differentiation also between working with an RPO partner versus agencies and other type of recruiting is you have clarity around what these metrics are, and the alignment between internal metrics versus what you have with embedded.

I also appreciate and Matthew that very well, one of the key takeaways we want to leave the audience with is, why should you work with an RPO provider? What are the benefits? And Martha talked about flexibility, talked about the savings, talked about just that experience of working with an RPO. It feels integrated, to use Alex's word, versus it's part of the team.

So you all made a great case, and I appreciate all the insights. I understand Symbotic is public company, so usually there's a lot of red tape when you speak on a webinar like this, and you guys, I appreciate you coming on the RPO webinar program and sharing this great story about how working with an RPO partner is a great decision, especially in this talent environment that we work with.

Yeah, that's a key takeaway the association has been doing an RPO trend study for the last three years, and when we ask RPO buyer about what's their top reason for working with a provider or leaving a provider, it's typically that relationship is what you're talking about Matt, that is big, important factor.

Matt Corbett 32:51

I'm hoping Martha agrees.

Martha Bradley 32:57

Yeah, I was gonna say Alex is much nicer than me. So continue to develop, because she's gonna go on to other companies at some point in her career, too. So she is, she's smarter and nicer.

Alex McGrane 33:11

Sure, that's always with the nice comments.

Matt Corbett 33:15

Martha has a sort of self-deprecating sense of humor. We love. She's the best.

Alex McGrane 33:15

She's the best.

Lamees Abourahma 33:11

Fantastic. Well, thank you all so much for again coming on the RPO webinar program. I appreciate your input and your insights and Matt, thank you so much for bringing your partner on the program as well.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Time to hire podcast from the recruitment process outsourcing association. Give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast. And always stay connected, stay engaged, and stay informed of what's happening in the talent and recruiting world by tuning into the RPAA, the place to go for RPO.